Warning for Those Considering Fulltiming

[Dustytuu]

I have never ever! seen anyone refused repair at the factory where their RV was made while under warranty living in it full-time!

Some RVs put that in writing that it is not for full-timing. That is to protect themselves if the thing falls apart going down the highway. Ours does not say this! Our 5th wheel is made for full-time or part-time and Carriage has stated this. Several others have also let it be known that it can be used for full-time.
You need a roadside assistance coverage and if you so want it, you need some after-market insurance for the RV, but I think those are a waste of money. We have several friends who have used after-market coverage and it has worked out well for them, and covered fridges, stoves, furnaces, frames, etc. And they are full-timers!

We just left Goshen, Indiana last month. We were there for a Carriage rally and stayed around to see some of our Montana friends at their rally. I know of 3 full-time Montana owners who were at the factory for repairs to their units, and also at Mor-Ryde to get their units fixed, all under warranty.

Many Carriage owners before this rally were at the factory to get warranty issues fixed and we were one of them. They all knew most of us were full-timers!

[RV Mech Tech]

Dustytuu: so does this mean that its the same situation in every state in the U.S. and every province in Canada? That would indicate that there is a blanket policy for all RV insurance policies and I can guarantee you that is not the case in Canada. The most recent example is a post on this forum in the 'All Things Canadian' by 'hpv321' on the subject of 'Canadian Full-Time RV Insurance Policy.' Perhaps the specific cases that you know about did not have any problems with full-time insurance or manufacturers covering the waranty costs in non-park model RVs, but I was personally involved in a few repairs to trailers in parks that the owners were living in full-time in 5th wheels or TTs and the manufacturer(s) would not cover the costs of repairs because the RVs were occupied full-time. And in each case, we did go over the sales contract with the owners and nowhere did it state that the RV in question was NOT to be lived in full-time. Working in a dealership exposes a tech to all kinds of different situations and many more of them than the owners of RVs. Yes, the owners you were exposed to did not have any problems but that does not indicate that others have not. Obviously there are situations that people may cause their own problems and their warranties are voided, but that does not say that everyone is in the same situation. Our dealer has had to work hard at getting warranty over the last few years. If you had a chance to see some of the defects in brand new units (some brands more than others), then see the customers come back (or we go in for a warranty service call to the campground when these defects finally surface), and then some manufacturers void the warranty because the units are being used all year, then you begin to see why the RV industry has to improve the quality control and their policies. Two of the manufacturers that refused warranty in the past that we have seen for full-timing are now no longer in business. Wonder why? Perhaps the situation is changing and the manufacturers are now improving this situation. Going by your description, Carriage is one of those companies and I am glad that you and the other owners have not had any problems, but as I said that is not the case for everyone. Thank you for your input.

[Dustytuu]

I do not know about Canada but "full-timers insurance" is same in ALL states, although it depends on which state you claim as your residence even though you do not live there. Does not matter which state you file a claim in. Things could break down in all states. But full-timers insurance is full-timers insurance and does NOT change in whatever state you travel or spend some time in. But it may depend on which state you do claim as residency. We chose Texas. Have not had a problem.

Carriage has always been good for people living full-time in their units.

Montana has been good. If the people take them to the factory, they can get issues taken care of. I have seen it happen when we had a Montana. Bought it new. We would have still had it but the floor plan was not one that worked for us for full-time.
Our Carriage is more comfortable for full-timing.

Are you trying to tell me I do not know what I am talking about because I am telling you what I have seen by experience and with other people?
_________________
D & D
2 Schnauzers & cat
2008 Carriage Carri lite 36SBQ,
W/D, dishW.
2008, 5500 Dodge, Laramie cab.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y250/Dustytuu/forwallpaper.jpg

"Criminals like gun control"
http://photobucket.com/albums/y250/Dustytuu/

[RV Mech Tech]

Dustytuu: Nowhere in my posts did I say that you did not know what you are talking about. I did however point out that in your experiences in talking with other RV owners and friends, you have not talked to anyone who did have any problems and this is according to what you have said. Am I correct in saying this? All I am pointing out here is that I have been exposed to situations where this has happened with both the insurance and a few manufacturers. This in no way indicates that all manufacturers and insurance companies operate like this and in many cases, we did get warranty for the owners and the insurance companies did pay for repairs. Do you know what it is like to have a problem with an RV such as a slideout malfunction (requiring many hours to repair) and the factory will not warranty it? If you think this doesn't happen, then start talking to many more owners and you will find out differently (we have documented proof at our dealership). Don't forget that the service personnel are the ones exposed to these problems and in some cases (like a slideout malfunction that will cost a lot to repair), the manufacturers do give us a difficult time every so often on warranty claims, and the dealer then ends up absorbing the cost of the repair up to a point since they have to pay the techs. Hopefully the situation is improving with insurance and warranty since this has been a problem for many owners.

[Dustytuu]

I have never ever seen ANYONE turned away from repairs if they talked with respect and courtesy to most manufacture places where the coach is built. If the warranty is out, then there isn't much any company will do but there are some that will go the extra mile, including Carriage and Montana. I have seen this for many years. I have heard of others also doing this.

There are some companies that will not fix anything! I am sure everyone has heard of these. Dealers are a whole another story. A bad dealer who doesn't take responsibility for what he sells will make a sale go bad very quick.
Entry-level trailers and 5th wheels are known for not fixing problems. Not all of them but some are this way.

As far as full-timing in a 5th wheel and getting insurance for full-timing, this is possible. Full-time insurance for some of the best states to make a residency such as SD, TX and Florida are possible. Several companies will offer after-market insurance for your coach against things breaking down. There are many.
We have full-timers GMAC insurance for accidents and damage from weather, etc. We have Good Sam's roadside assistance and will change to Coachnet when this is up.

Many insurance policies on a coach are offered through the dealer but are quite expensive. (These are for insurance for the coach breaking down due to faulty frame, fridge, etc). I know people who have had claims with some of them. One full-timer who was in Indiana for a rally had to have his air conditioner replaced. The insurance company paid for everything and was well aware they were full-timers.

I just don't want anyone to be telling people this can't be done and no one can get anything fixed if they are full-timers. Which is just not so......Many, many insurance companies out there will cover it and pay claims, but you do have to do exactly what the company says. Can't get anything fixed until they approve, and then fix it and they will pay! They have certain steps that have to be taken.

Carriage does not say anywhere in their paperwork their 5th wheels can not be used for full-time. Ever!

[RV Mech Tech]

Dustytuu: Once again thank you for your input. I would like to point out a couple of things: a) after rereading my posts, I can't find anywhere where I said you 'cannot' get insurance or you 'cannot' get warranty repairs done if you full-time I simply stated that in talking to many owners, some have said that they have had problems with 'some' insurance companies but did eventually get insurance, and some but not all owners did have some difficulty in getting warranty work done after they were asked if they lived in their RV full-time. Case in point: Alpha - we carried the Alpha line (class A's) and we sold some of the early models, and we had several warranty problems with them. One was the converter-inverter failing (several of them did) and the factory did not warranty a couple of them, and when we contacted Alpha, they specifically asked if any of these coaches were lived in full-time, and in two cases they would not warranty the converter/inverter. This we have on file. Another example was one coach that had the early style bedroom small 'desk' slideout that tipped out like a mailbox drawer and on this coach, it would get stuck and had to be pulled out to repair. Once Alpha found out the owners lived in the unit full-time, we had a problem getting any warranty. The owner of our dealer eventually contacted them and got some warranty payment but not without a fight. I do not know if this contributed to their problems but now Alpha is out of business. This is only one example of this problem and we have had to deal with several more. Also in the case of the bedroom slideout example, the owner did take it back to the factory and he did NOT receive full warranty coverage. This is documented fact. You have stated twice that you have not heard of anyone having any problems with Carriage and/or Montana, and I respect your opinion and agree with you, but at the same time please take into consideration what I am pointing out because like your statement, my information is based on fact having participated in the abovementioned and other situations. b) the dealer is the frontline to the customer representing the manufacturer of that company's products, but did you know that an RV dealer cannot touch anything until they receive authorization from the factory before doing any work? First, the dealer did not build the RV. Second, if there is a problem, the dealer has to photograph the part or section of the RV in question, and send the photos and information to the manufacturer for warranty 'consideration.' In most cases, the manufacturer authorizes the service/repair procedure, but as I have said earlier, this is not alway the case. If that happens, then the dealer has a choice of not doing anything for the customer or fixing the problem and 'eating' the cost of the repair. If you do not think that this happens, then I challenge you to find a dealer that has not been in this type of situation. Over the last couple of years, we have had to tell customers to take their RV back to the factory to have the repairs done because the factory will NOT authorize the repair, and at that point, the dealer cannot do anything for the owner and the owner must deal with the factory. Again this is documented fact and in some cases such as the Alpha slideout, the owner ended up paying something towards the repair. This too is documented and we get the feedback from these owners after the fact. And what happens when the owner cannot take their RV back to the factory? Maybe you can, but there are others who cannot. These owners have to depend on the dealer and sometimes the dealer is placed between a rock and a hard place with no alternative but to absorb the cost. Keep doing that and you will eventually go bankrupt. Yes there are some dealers that try and get out of doing warranty repairs, but many of them have their hands tied. Another example of this is a class C that had the Ford V10 engine. A broker drove the RV to our dealer and the engine cooling system had a leak, and the broker/driver had to stop every so often and refill the cooling syst

[RV Mech Tech]

Post continued: and by the time he arrived at our dealer, the engine had been damaged beyond repair (the driver/brokers are not mechanics). We phoned the factory and they refused to warranty the engine. It was found that there was a problem with the engine cooling system internally and still the factory refused to do anything about it or even contact the chassis manufacturer. The owner of our dealer phoned them and told them that if they did not warranty the engine, then they could come and pick up all of their RVs off the lot. A new engine was shipped to and installed by a local Ford dealer within a week. This is the kind of hardline tactics that are sometimes necessary and the general public does not see or hear about but it does happen. c) There have been several manufacturers that have gone out of business in the last few years, but there are several that have not and will survive because of their excellent after the sale treatment such as Carriage and Montana, and the lack of customer service may have been a contributing factor to the demise of the others and some of these have been taken over by new owners/management, and they are focusing on improving company policy and correcting the mistakes that have been made in the past and hopefully the warranty situation will improve. d) If you look at the earlier posts from 2007 in this thread by 'Little Kopit' and 'Stan Birch,' they both make some very valid points. Again, thank you for your input and have a great day! (and sorry for the long post! )

[Dustytuu]

I know that the dealer needs to get OK from the manufacturer but some dealers never contact the manufacturer; never order parts, and that was what I was getting at. I know there are lots of manufacturers that do not give great customer service and their products leave a lot to be desired.
Please don't talk down to me as if I don't know what I am talking about. We been doing this for years and are on our fourth 5th wheel. We keep upgrading.

You keep on telling people that they can't get things fixed because they live in them. Maybe you have something against full-timers. I don't have a clue.....
Results could be more room for us.
Tell them whatever you want. I am done with this conversation.

We enjoy our full-time life and live in cool northwest during the summer or travel somewhat in summer, and then sit for 5 months in winter in the southern part of the USA. It is a good life and we will continue to do this as long as we are healthy. We have a good coach and great tow vehicle. Life is good!
_________________
D & D
2 Schnauzers & cat
2008 Carriage Carri lite 36SBQ,
W/D, dishW.
2008, 5500 Dodge, Laramie cab.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y250/Dustytuu/forwallpaper.jpg

"Criminals like gun control"
http://photobucket.com/albums/y250/Dustytuu/

[RV Mech Tech]

Dustytuu: once again thank you for your comments. Everything I have posted on this and other threads are from real life experiences, not my personal opinion. Everything I have mentioned has come from RV owners feedback and who better to tell us, the service people, what is happening out there than the owners themselves? Not once did I say that everyone would be denied warranty or insurance because they lived in their RV full- time. I only pointed out the 'real life' situations that I have seen and been involved with. Also another purpose in listing this information about what has happened to other owners is not to criticize anyone, but to help other RV owners if they too have a problem. I have been able to do this on other threads just like many other forum members and I have received personal messages saying, "Thank you for your help" and "You have saved us time and money with your advice." I am not sounding off my horn here, but this is one way I can say thank you to you the owner/customer for buying an RV and bringing it back to us for service. One of the things that I have learned in the RV industry is that it is a very people/family-oriented business and I treat everyone from co-workers to customers with the same respect as I like to be treated with. The same goes with this forum so please do not get the impression that this is an attack on you since this is not the case. Thank you.

[Motor31]

I think we have about 3 different subject tied up in this thread here. Let me clarify my first post and what I was saying, as well as what I "think" Mech Tech and Dusty are talking about.

First off the original post was about a factory warranty, explained in writing, on a Dutchman RV. They specifically stated, "This trailer is manufactured to be used only as a recreational vehicle and not as a full-time dwelling." An additional comment by the spokesperson had specific verbiage regarding the warranty itself, "using this trailer as a full-time residential unit will void the warranty."

This was published in Trailer Life in one of their magazines including quoting the factory response for the claim. I read the article again and in this particular case, they did provide parts and support to the owner through the dealer and the owner was "satisfied", according to the Dutchman spokesperson.

Mech Tech and Dusty seem to have a couple different items going in the discussion. I saw terms for full-timer insurance and the gist of the conversation seemed to be more about an extended service contract rather than insurance. I state this as I take insurance to be concerned with liability and coverage required for licensing the unit for travel, things like collisions and people hurting themselves while visiting the owners in their rig.

This is different from an extended service contract provided by a company separate from the RV factory which does not cover liability of the owner for actions in or around the RV in transit or stationary. The coverage for full-timers is different than that needed by part-time camper folks.

Those two items are outside of the scope I intended when I started the thread. I was not trying to scare anyone from their dream but to help make sure folks who intend to full-time RV read their contract in regards to the warranty conditions. In the case of Dutchman brand, the factory has stated they do not warranty their units for full-time use. Rather than being scared, folks should instead be forewarned that there are clauses in the contract that can limit or deny factory warranty coverage. Again this is different from an extended service contract provided by a separate entity from the manufacturer. Those contracts have their own coverages and exclusions, and are not bound by the manufacturer's terms since it is a separate service contract sometimes termed extended "warranty."

Did I read the comments correctly here or am I misinterpreting them?
_________________
Mike, Nancy and the Fuzzies
2005 MS 38 RL3
2001 Volvo MH (HDT)
2004 R1150RT (piggyback)
1996 Jeep Cherokee (toad)

[RV Mech Tech]

Mike: Thanks for your comments. Concerning warranty, I was specifically referring to the initial new RV factory warranty and the problems a few owners have had, and the manufacturers we deal with all ask are the RVs being lived in full-time when we submit a warranty claim. As has been explained to me, they ask this to determine the amount of usage since not all RVs are built to be lived in all year round (park models being the exception) and if this type of RV is lived in full-time, that is considered excessive use by some but not all manufacturers. As Dustytuu has stated in referring to two manufacturers Carriage and Montana, this is definitely not the case, and Carriage encourages all year usage of their products. In regards to insurance, there may be blanket coverage in the USA but people who live in other countries and participate on this forum do not have this type of coverage, and must be more specific and as you say, 'read the small print' of their policies. I also believe that these same insurance companies refer to the manufacturer's policies in making some kind of guideline for their own policies regarding conditions such as full- timing. I also believe that in some cases, the problems some people have had with insurance coverage have been a deterrent in their decision to purchase an RV, and as Dustytuu says, "Do not let anyone scare you away from your dreams." I agree with this 100%. As with any industry, change takes time and I as a service tech am starting to see that. Things can only get better for this industry, and I for one will do everything I can to promote it and assist owners with their problems. I have been on the receiving end when the factory does not offer compensation on warranty in some cases and believe me, you do not want to be in that position. As I stated before, I was trying to inform people on this forum about the real life situations as you are doing to help them if they have a problem. Thanks again!