50 Amp Service

[Born Again]

Hi,
I'm totally green, of course, to the RV world but we're learning as we go along. I have a 220 volt outlet in my garage on a 50 amp breaker. Does anyone know if I can plug my 50 amp service into this or is it too much voltage?

[porscheracer]

Although similar, they are wired differently. It may or may not be - depending on the wire used - an inexpensive matter for your electrician to fix.

Don't plug it in as is!!
_________________
Norm & Janet
'08 Winnebago View 24H / '09 Escape XLT AWD toad
'05 Winnebago Vectra 36RD / '03 Dakota QC 4x4 toad, or a 24' trailer with another car;
Probably somewhere in NA - or maybe on another continent.

[Born Again]

Thanks to porscheracer for your prompt reply.

[Kent & Cathie]

Hi,
Your 220v outlet would run a 220v welder.

tThe 50 amp RV service might be 50 amps at 110 and need a different outlet.

The 220 is two 110 legs of power and a ground just like the wires
coming into your house/garage.

I have used a 220 service for 110 by hooking up the hot to one leg,
and then both the white (neutral) and green (safety ground) to the
ground leg of the 220 service.

Then I would check the new outlet with a tester to make sure it works
as needed.

If you have not done electrical work, the safest thing would be to
pay an electriction to add a 50 amp RV service and outlet in the spot you chose.
kentr
_________________
1988 Jayco 24.5 , 5er
"assembled" 1 ton Peterbilt flatbed dump
with '63 cab & hood, supercharged 454,
Allison 545 4 speed auto, 373 rear gears,
19.5 's

[Kent & Cathie]

Hi again,
I'm new to using a RV also,

So please, someone who knows what that 50 amp service is,
let us all know.

Is that 50 RV service 220v or 50 amps at 110 volts ?

Of course I would think it's at 110 volts, otherwise how could you
use a 50 amp to 30 amp adaptor? But I would rather not guess.

kentr
_________________
1988 Jayco 24.5 , 5er
"assembled" 1 ton Peterbilt flatbed dump
with '63 cab & hood, supercharged 454,
Allison 545 4 speed auto, 373 rear gears,
19.5 's

[Born Again]

Kent,

Thanks so much for your input. You're exactly right too! Camping World RV Sales in Roanoke, VA called me a few minutes ago and confirmed what you said before I knew about your reply. Thanks again for your help.

[porscheracer]

220 is actually two 110s added together.

110<---->220<---->110

I'll not get into center tapped transformers and all the technical jargon.

A properly wired 50A is actually equivalent to a 100A circuit because it uses two totally separate legs of the circuit.

The difference between the 220 used in the motorhome and your house is that the two legs are never combined in the motorhome (unless you happen to have a 220v dryer).

The wiring for a standard 220 is only a 3-wire circuit - L1, L2, G.
The wiring for a motorhome 50A 110 circuit is 4-wire - L1, L2, N, G.

Sorry, I don't explain things well sometimes.
_________________
Norm & Janet
'08 Winnebago View 24H / '09 Escape XLT AWD toad
'05 Winnebago Vectra 36RD / '03 Dakota QC 4x4 toad, or a 24' trailer with another car;
Probably somewhere in NA - or maybe on another continent.

[Kent & Cathie]

Hi,
So if there are two 110 v legs on a 50 amp RV connection and you use a 50 amp to 30 amp adaptor, do you have 50 amps available? Just using one leg to ground?

And do some RVs use 220v dryers?

Or could you "jump" the circuits in your breaker panel to get 220v?

While I'm at it, I've got another electrical question. Better put in the info requests thread.

kentr
_________________
1988 Jayco 24.5 , 5er
"assembled" 1 ton Peterbilt flatbed dump
with '63 cab & hood, supercharged 454,
Allison 545 4 speed auto, 373 rear gears,
19.5 's

[porscheracer]

Yes.

Yes.

Not exactly. You'd have to wire the L1 and L2 and G to the outlet, just like at home.
_________________
Norm & Janet
'08 Winnebago View 24H / '09 Escape XLT AWD toad
'05 Winnebago Vectra 36RD / '03 Dakota QC 4x4 toad, or a 24' trailer with another car;
Probably somewhere in NA - or maybe on another continent.

[Kent & Cathie]

Hi,
Thank's for your replies, P racer.

Just for fun, and this is the "Introduce Yourself" spot, my dad, recently passed on, came from Arkansas.

Was living just out of Arkadelphia on River Street. My mom's still
there.
His folks were from around Dalark, Sparkman, and Fordyce area.

I lived in Malvern for a few years, '55 to '58.

My last trip back was in '96 or so. Made the trip in a borrowed MH, an Executive. Fun trip: 6,500 miles in 2 weeks.

We went Boise, Colorado Springs, Tulsa, Hot Springs, Arkadelphia,
Little Rock, somewhere north, I think they called it Misery, out to the
Black Hills, Mt Rushmore, Hill City, Yellowstone, and then back to
Veneta from there nonstop.
kentr
_________________
1988 Jayco 24.5 , 5er
"assembled" 1 ton Peterbilt flatbed dump
with '63 cab & hood, supercharged 454,
Allison 545 4 speed auto, 373 rear gears,
19.5 's

[porscheracer]

I used to do a little work around Arkadelphia - at International Paper.

We live in an unincorporated area about 15 miles south of downtown Little Rock known as "East End."

My DW is a native Arkansan - Hardy area. I'm originally from Tennessee (Paris->Memphis) but moved over here 20 years ago. We're both early retirees and do a lot of sports car race working. I used to drive, but my health got in the way.
_________________
Norm & Janet
'08 Winnebago View 24H / '09 Escape XLT AWD toad
'05 Winnebago Vectra 36RD / '03 Dakota QC 4x4 toad, or a 24' trailer with another car;
Probably somewhere in NA - or maybe on another continent.

[constablebill]

[tartan23455]

OK, let's try to think about this in an easy manner. Think of electricity as water in a hose. The voltage (110 - 220 etc) is the pressure required to push the water through the hose. No pressure, no water. The amperage (30 amps - 50 amps) is the water in the hose. Thus the need for different size wiring. A smaller hose passes less water and/or requires more pressure to push the same volume through it. The same with electricity. The more amperage required, the larger the wire needed to pass it through. With water if the pressure in the small hose trying to keep up with the demand for volume exceeds the hose's structural integrity, POP, the hose breaks and you have water all over everywhere. With electricity the pressure (volts) in the wire trying to keep up with the demand (amps) causes heat which, when it gets too great, will cause the insulation on the wiring to melt and in some cases catch fire. In other cases, the insulation will just melt off and the bare wire will act like a stove burner getting red hot and thus starting a fire. The fuses and circuit breakers in your MH and your house are there to protect the WIRING, not your appliances. They work by sensing heat and either melting or tripping before the heat generated gets to the point of melting the insulation. BUT, as is the case with everything, they do not ALWAYS work as intended. As stated earlier, USA voltage is 110/220. 110v is measured between the hot (110v) color wire (could/should be any color other than white or green or bare) and the neutral (SHOULD be white) and/or ground wire (SHOULD be green or bare). I say SHOULD because it depends on who did the hookup and IF they did it properly. BEST TO TEST ALWAYS! before putting fingers into contact with any wiring. 220 volts is just 2 110v circuits measured between the 2. You will still get 110v measured from either one of the 2 to the ground wire. A strictly 220 volt circuit will not have a neutral wire, only a ground wire. The neutral wire carries the excess current (current = amps which = water in our example) not used (there is always unused current just like there is always unused or leftover water) back to the power station (kinda sorta, just think of that way) like the drain carries your leftover water back to the lake (kinda/sorta). The ground wire is strictly a backup. Just in case the neutral gets broken, the excess current has to go somewhere and if there's no ground and you touch it, guess where it's gonna go...through you...SO the ground is there to protect you, NOT to use as a spare neutral or anything else. NEVER use a ground wire for anything other than a ground wire...PERIOD!
So your 30 amp and 50 amp plug-in BOTH have 220 volts BUT there is also a neutral wire AND a ground wire. Thus you actually have 2 circuits going to your MH of 110 volts each. Once again the 30 or 50 amps is a measure of how much current is being required or used OR available for use. If it's not available at the plug-in, you can't use it.
Another thing to be taken into account is the distance you are going to go with your wiring. Unlike with water, if you go long distances (usually over 50-100+ feet), you will encounter what is known as voltage drop. This is caused by the resistance of the wire you are using. Over a long distance your voltage (pressure) will drop to less than 110 volts per leg (one leg is one of the hot wires of the circuit). When voltage drops, amperage (heat) goes up. This is very bad for your electric motors and appliances and will cause them to die an early death. This gets kinda complicated so just remember the longer the distance, the larger the wire needed. So if you're going to hook up a 30 amp circuit for your MH, the usual size wire is #10 gauge which is rated for 30 amps, BUT if your MH is like mine and the actual connection point or plug may be 75-80 away from the actual plug and you are going to add some rubber cord to make it reach, you will need a larger than #10 rubber cord. The next larger size is #8. This will work up to about 100 feet from the plug (the plug may be up to 75 or so
_________________
Rick & Gail
1997 MADP
2004 JGC

[mort]

Hello all,
I just joined to help with this question. I have been a Master Electrician since 1980.

28' Forest River Travel Trailer
28' Suburban
RVing 4 years
Michigan is my home

The water story is a good way to picture it but it is not entirely correct.
You could have a 50 amp 240 volt outlet, which is used strictly for a 240 volt load, ie a dryer or a welder, or a motor. This requires 3 conductors, 2 hot legs from different phases, and an equipment ground.

You most likely with an RV would have a 120/240 volt outlet either 30 or 50 amp rating. However, this outlet requires 2 hot legs from different phases, a nuetral conductor, and an equipment ground.

120 volt phase X------Neutral------120 volt phase Y + equipment ground
|----8 amps-------------|---------10 amps----|
(8 amps subtracted from 10 amps)
|
UnBalanced Neutral load 2 amps

Phase X to Neutral = 120 volts
Phase Y to Neutral = 120 volts
Phase X to Phase Y = 240 volts
Phase X or Phase Y to the equipment ground = 120 volts

The Neutral conductor completes the circuit from its source. When 2 separate phases use the same Neutral, the conductor then carries the UnBalanced load. It is sized to carry the same amount of current from either source.

The equipment ground is a conductor that is just as it it named. It is not intended to protect equipment; however, is used to protect "YOU."
If let's say phase X became in contact with your RV's metal equipment, if it was not properly grounded, you would become the conductor when that equipment is touched, and death is almost certain. Electricity will take the path of least resistance.
The equipment ground wire is connected at the main service panel in the same manner as the neutral conductor is, with an additional connection to an actual Earth ground. All of these conductors are connected together.

Here is the part which you might not know. An equipment ground and an Earth ground are connected together to act as a collector for stray voltage. Let's say your RV is wired correctly. However another RV or anything that uses electricity is not. The electricity from the faulty equipment may be now using the actual earth to complete its circuit from its source back to its neutral. By properly connecting the metal equipment, this stray voltage will travel back to its source by wires and not you. The electricity will use the path of least resistance. Think of birds sitting on power lines: the birds are just fine. If the bird was a better conductor, the electricity will go through it.

Always have your equipment grounded if you're using electricity. Do not use a neutral as an equipment ground and do not use an equipment ground as a neutral.

If you were to ground your equipment with the neutral, you could really be in harm's way. Your neutral is connected at the source panel to an actual Earth ground. If your equipment was somehow physically in contact with the Earth, you have created a parallel conductor. Some of the unbalanced current returning to its source will travel through the actual neutral conductor and some will return to its source through the Earth. Now if your equipment was not physically (electricaly) in contact with the earth (your RV tires, for example), you come along with bare feet and lean on the side. You have now completed that circuit to ground and some of that current will travel through you.

Each conductor, the neutral and the equipment grounding conducter, have a very specific function.

Don't cheat Mother Nature with this. Every single electron is going to return to its source all the way back to where the power was generated.

If you want to be a conductor, get a job on a train.

[TannerBee]

IMHO, you should use 6 gauge wire for 50A, not 10 gauge. So for the 50A service to your RV box, get 6-3 w/ground, UFB if possible.
_________________
Floyd and Tanner
Coachmen Santara 35
Rock Hill SC

Time is either spent or invested.