Wednesday, September 28, 2022

MENU

California addresses questions about gas vehicle ban

Article courtesy of RVIA
The last week has seen a flurry of stories in the media about California banning sales of new gas-powered cars by 2035, such as stories in Politico and the Washington Post. These stories were triggered by the California Air Resources Board (CARB) beginning the rulemaking process to implement the executive order signed by Governor Newsom nearly three years ago.

The rules have a goal to phase in ever-increasing percentages of zero-emission vehicles (ZEV) in the passenger car and light-duty truck markets over the next dozen years in order to reach 100 percent ZEV by model year 2035. This cohort of vehicles would be those with gross vehicle weights less than 8,500 pounds. Medium-duty (8,501 to 14,00 pounds) and heavy-duty trucks (over 14,001 pounds) would not be subject to the same zero emission rules until 2045. So, at first only motorhomes or tow vehicles under 8,500 pounds would be impacted, such as some Class B motorhomes.

Other portions of the rule would impose stricter emission standards for passenger cars, light-duty trucks, and medium-duty vehicles beginning in model year 2026. This portion of the rule would cover all vehicles, including motorhomes and tow vehicles, that weigh 14,000 pounds or less.

Frequently Asked Questions on the Ban of Sales of New Internal Combustion Engines in California

What vehicles are covered?

Passenger cars and light-duty trucks will be required to be ZEV beginning with model year 2035. This would be vehicles with weights less than 8,500 pounds and would include some Class B motorhomes.

Are medium-duty and heavy-duty vehicles included?

No, medium-duty and heavy-duty trucks will not be subject to the ZEV requirement until 2045. That part of the rulemaking has not begun yet, but stricter emission standards will phase in during 2026 for medium-duty vehicles (those weighing between 8,501 and 14,000 pounds, including Class B and some Class C motorhomes).

Will older internal combustion engines still be permitted to operate in California?

The new rules will not ban sales of used vehicles with internal combustion engines and such vehicles will still be permitted to operate on California highways.

Will other states follow California’s lead?

There are currently 17 states that have adopted California’s emissions requirements, known as Section 177 states: Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Nevada, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Vermont, Virginia, and Washington. These states account for nearly 40 percent of all vehicle sales in the country. Already, Oregon and Washington have started the process of formally adopting the California ZEV requirement.

Does the national infrastructure have capacity to handle the increased needs of ZEVs?

The number of charging stations will need to be increased dramatically to fulfill the needs of the growing numbers of ZEVs on the road. There was significant funding for such development in last year’s Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act.

Will vehicle or engine manufacturers have until 2035 to begin making changes?

No, the rules envision a phase-in starting in model year 2026 and taking ten years to require only ZEVs being sold in the state. In 2026, 35 percent of new car and light-duty truck sales must be ZEV; by 2030, that will rise to 68 percent.

##RVT1068b

Comments

Subscribe
Notify of

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.

129 Comments
Newest
Oldest
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Woodshed Moments
21 days ago

It would seem that dank ideological hive up in Sacramento has done it again, in setting a high bar for fraud, graft and cronyism.

Can you say overreach?

California’s nutty governor, and his ideological ilk in the state legislature have once again struck a blow to common sense and constitutionality, they haven’t just breached one constitutional provision, you’ve got at least two just an article I alone, these folks are out of their collective minds.

I think they live every day trying to define democracy – which of course is going to make the revelation of why our framers despised democracy and went out of their way to define this nation’s political identity in article 4 of our constitution more profound, we are a constitutional republic, they despised democracy because it’s just undefined leverage.

Newsom and his pathetic band of ideological reprobates are fast turning California into a hippie retirement community.

Hint: State capitalism doesn’t work… they overstepped

B N S
20 days ago

Well Said!

Steven N
21 days ago

I’ve never seen a state so eager to screw themselves!

Scott Thompson
21 days ago

“I need more power, Scotty”! “I’m giving all she’s got”! California has been hit with the worst heat wave we’ve seen in years and we’re told to shut everything down and my house has done so two and three hours a day and that is not enough. Now we’re threatened with rolling blackouts. What will happen to the power grid when everything goes electric? Nothing is free and we are going to see the enormous cost to our environment when the world goes electric!

Last edited 21 days ago by Scott Thompson
TT Bach
22 days ago

As long as the grid, and therefore recharging stations, are powered by fossil fuels, the environmental benefit of electric vehicles will be zilch.

Admin
Kim Christiansen(@imkimc)
21 days ago
Reply to  TT Bach

Not quite true… but pretty close.

Using a coal burning power supply to power EVs still produce less CO2 than the same number of cars burning gas (source). NG is better yet (about 50% CO2 & no mercury).

But is it clean?
Clean is a subjective term. EVs powered by Nuclear or Hydro power are much cleaner than those powered by coal or NG. Wind and solar powered EVs, cleaner yet. We’re on track for 30% plus total renewable power by 2030 on the US grid.

The current grid isn’t only powered by fossil fuels either. Only about 20% of the US grid is coal, 38% NG and 19% nuke (EPA). The rest is hydro, solar etc. Too bad we stopped building Nuclear Plants, we’d be way ahead of the game if we had stayed the course.

There are so many technical, political and social hurdles to overcome before this happens. Should be interesting. Difficult for sure, but interesting. At least they will be phasing in the larger vehicles over a longer time period. We may have better solutions by then.

Paul
16 days ago

Note that the grid is not 100% efficient. Getting electricity from the generator to the car across miles of distribution lines and substations will likely incur at least a 20% energy penalty from generation to plug. Then you charge and discharge batteries incuring additional losses.

Your modern efficient ICE or hybrid doesn’t have that problem.

Don’t forget the cost of the batteries.

Tried a battery lawn mower. 2 yrs later, batteries dead, no longer supported, machine is junk.

Back to gasoline. It’s greener.

Bob M
22 days ago

America and many other countries are worried about climate change and pushing for electric vehicles. But no one is concerned about the pollution from the war in Ukraine to the environment. There is pollution from all those buildings, cars, chemical plants and bombs burning and exploding plus much more. Now we have the possibility of the nuclear plants blowing up and radiation spreading across the world. I just read where one scientist said maybe there was once an industrial world before us and they wiped them self out. All signs of that life’s existence decomposed. Could we be heading there.

Ash_EN
22 days ago

This is big joke, they can’t ban the engine powered cars anywhere near in next 50-60 years

C.M.
22 days ago

They can build and build charging stations…yet they still haven’t solved the problem of not enough power coming from the grid..not to mention powerplants certainly aren’t clean!

Also, isn’t CA the state that asked people not to charge their EV’s during the day? And haven’t they had rolling power outages for years???

Chris Malli
22 days ago
Reply to  C.M.

Exactly

Gordy B
22 days ago
Reply to  C.M.

I lived in California in the 70’s. Back then at first they called them “brown outs” where electricity was reduced in high usage areas. All I have heard since is that they have eliminated more power plants and increased usage. It is a shame the wind generators polluting the landscape and covering the raw beauty of nature. They can ban new cars and build charging stations, but they will need a lot more electricity to power those stations and keep up with normal demand as well. They keep passing rules with no idea how they can be carried out effectively.

Bob p
19 days ago
Reply to  Gordy B

As with every idea ********** come up with they never ask themselves the “what if” question. “If we implement this idea what will happen”? Maybe along the coastline the wind blows all the time, as I look out my window here in central FL not a leaf is blowing. The sun doesn’t shine 24 hrs a day even in Alaska, so they need to come up with a better idea. Nuclear was great until someone said “What do we do with the spent nuclear rods?” What is needed is quit sending college educated ****** (lawyers) to represent us, elect people with common sense. That’s what our founders set up with the founding of our country. You send your neighbors to congress to represent you for 2 years, when their term is up you send another neighbor. It was not designed to be a 40-50 career. Senators were picked by the state to represent their state, not elected by a political party. It’s time to go back to our roots.

volnavy007
19 days ago
Reply to  C.M.

Maybe they will try to get their electric power like they try to get their water — tap off of their neighboring states?

Zeke Mcfartly
22 days ago

Make no mistake. $6 a gallon gasoline will seem cheap when this ridiculousness starts.

Jack
22 days ago
Reply to  Zeke Mcfartly

Actually, gas may go down in price if fewer people are demanding.

Bob p
19 days ago
Reply to  Jack

They’ll just make less and everything will remain the same. Until someone with common sense is back in office that thinks the answer is “drill baby drill.” We have over 100 years of oil reserves under our feet for us and a good portion of the world. In that 100 years technology will find the answer for the future. Global warming is a farce, in the mid 1970s we were heading into another ice age. I lived through that and didn’t freeze into a block of ice. A well respected climatologist, who I imagine is passed on by now, said the earth goes through a 100 year cycle of heating and cooling. At the time we were in the cooling cycle, I lived in northern IL at the time, I didn’t have A/C, by the mid 80s I got A/C. Now we are experiencing heatwave’s of extreme conditions, in a few years you’ll be wearing sweaters in April and May. To hear the scientists talk the earth has been here millions of years and it hasn’t burned up yet.

Gary
23 days ago

What a joke. They seem to think that simply adding charging stations will suffice. That’s kinda like cutting holes in your walls and adding outlets, without installing and upgrading the wiring/meter to support those outlets. CARB is responsible for the theft of more money from CA citizens than any other group. The entire organization should be dismantled, banned, and it’s leaders jailed.

Bob p
19 days ago
Reply to  Gary

Even our president knows electricity comes out of the wall, he said so in one of his speeches. Lol

Joe Goomba
23 days ago

Some truly disgusting as well as ill-informed commentary here. Shame on many of you.

B N S
23 days ago
Reply to  Joe Goomba

Joe, its “Commentary”… Some Readers will Like OR Dislike.. Many of us believe its a healthy way to deal with HOT political topics… Very American!! : )

Diane Mc
24 days ago

Well, I had a couple of thoughts and was going to jump in, but…..never mind…lol.

Admin
RV Staff(@rvstaff)
24 days ago

Jeff, Matt, Ed, BNS, et al. Please quit arguing, being disrespectful, and/or bashing each other and your different points of view. I don’t want to spend my day refereeing y’all. (I have more important work to do.) You’ve expressed your opinions for all to see. Keep up the bickering back and forth and we’ll just close the comments. (Or a less-lenient moderator will delete your comments.) Just sayin’. Thank you. Have a good day. 🙂 –Diane (aka “Mom”)

Jeff Craig
24 days ago
Reply to  RV Staff

Yes, Ma’am.

Admin
RV Staff(@rvstaff)
24 days ago
Reply to  Jeff Craig

Thanks, Jeff. But I see it didn’t work. Sorry. Hey, have some scones for me when you Do the Puyallup, OK? Thanks! Take care. 😀 –Diane

Jeff Craig
22 days ago
Reply to  RV Staff

I had them – should have gotten the Strawberry Shortcake instead of the deep fried Twinkie. (That ruins a perfectly good Twinkie!) Well, had to try it, you only live once – but if you do it right, once is enough.

Admin
RV Staff(@rvstaff)
22 days ago
Reply to  Jeff Craig

But did you have a scone with raspberry jam, Jeff? That’s the trademark of our fairs around this area. If you didn’t have them, you’ll just have to go back. Or just get a box of “Fisher Fair Scone” mix at the store and make a batch. (Cheaper and quicker than going to the fair.) They’re delicious! I’ve been hooked on them for 70+ years! (They’re good with craisins mixed in, also.) I’ve never tried a deep fried Twinkie. The Fisher scones are better than any of those weird things. (Although strawberry shortcake is good, also.) Have a good evening/night. 😀 –Diane

C.M.
22 days ago
Reply to  RV Staff

I would have to respectfully disagree…the reason people are heated is that we are each only given one side of the news. I find it interesting on a site like this one where a common subject brings the 2 sides together and each side shares their perspective. Where else do we get the opportunity to discuss and hear opposing viewpoints?!

Unless it gets to the point of name-calling, I think we are all mature enough to be able to hear both sides of an argument without melting. And I can’t think of anything better for our country than if we start talking to each other again.

Admin
RV Staff(@rvstaff)
22 days ago
Reply to  C.M.

Hi, C.M. I agree that readers can share their different perspectives on topics, but I get tired of them name-calling (like “ignorant”) and bashing each other’s views. I feel more like a referee (or a mom with bickering children) when the readers get riled up and go at each other in our comments. If they would keep their comments civil and polite, go for it. But not where they were going over the weekend. Our less-lenient moderators would have deleted their comments, or turned the comments off completely. I just gave them a warning. Did you read all of the comments on this post? They were deteriorating pretty rapidly. Have a good evening. 🙂 –Diane

C.M.
22 days ago
Reply to  RV Staff

Yeah, I caught that “ignorant” comment after I posted …but I will add that I am glad to see you didn’t remove it. It is a good reminder not to slide down that slope as no one has ears at that level. It is doubtful that either side has all the facts and it is helpful to try to share with as much kindness as possible.

Admin
RV Staff(@rvstaff)
22 days ago
Reply to  C.M.

I agree. Thanks, C.M. Have a good night. 😀 –Diane

B N S
22 days ago
Reply to  C.M.

C.M. Thankyou!! Censorship goes against the Grains of Americas Constitution… RVTravel consists of “We The People”… HOT topics effecting Americans should be freely discussed on all forums : )

Thomas D
24 days ago

Reading comments,we should do nothing!
Status Quo. It’s good enough for me, the hell with trying to improve anything! My feeling is getting the world on board. Every country, no exceptions. I see tv and look at the air in los Angeles. You could cut it with a knife. Is that really what you want.
You’re a blind fool if you think we should continue the way we have. Step up and do SOMETHING. Think, does this trip to the ???? really need to be made today when I have to go out tomorrow anyway. little things like that could make a difference.

C.M.
22 days ago
Reply to  Thomas D

I don’t know if putting off my grocery shopping for another day is going to help. The majority of pollution seems to be coming from countries like china and large corporations that dump it into the air, streams, oceans and ground with no care or concern. Shouldn’t the agencies be going after the big offenders?

Bob M
24 days ago

California asked that those with electric vehicles not to charge them fully. If they didn’t need to, because they didn’t want to overload the power grid with the heat wave and residents using A/C

MattD
24 days ago

My question to all this ‘forward planning’ is, how much fossil fuel will it take to charge all these vehicles? 5x? 10x? It cannot be done with wind and solar alone. Yeah, scar the landscape with more of those ghastly wind turbines across the plains and finish off the remaining 40,000 endangered golden eagles in the country…nice.

DebbieB
22 days ago
Reply to  MattD

I agree the giant wind power turbines are ugly bird killers and from my research require dreaded oil as lubricant ( eye roll). Mining for the minerals to make batteries is even worse than the oil industry which has years to play by the rules. Also, we Need the by- products of the oil industry, sulfur to name one. I’m not against clean energy, but I don’t think the dirty secrets of electrifying vehicles is the answer.

volnavy007
19 days ago
Reply to  MattD

What is needed instead of the propeller-like ones is a vertical type like the exhaust turbines you see mostly on commercial buildings. That type is in the works but the ones developing them don’t seem to have the same political backing. Also, fusion is making great strides of late.

B N S
24 days ago

The WEF Elites are forcing this on The Masses. It as everything to do with “Control” and Zero to do with the environment…

MattD
24 days ago
Reply to  B N S

+1

Jeff Craig
24 days ago
Reply to  B N S

LOL – Oh-My-God….
Like the Oil Exec ‘elites’ haven’t used extremely gullible folks like you for the last 30 years?

MattD
24 days ago
Reply to  Jeff Craig

I hold quite a few stocks in two major oil companies, so their profits help fund my retirement. I’m a proud capitalist. Jus’ sayin’…LOL

Jeff Craig
24 days ago
Reply to  MattD

As do I – but I also have invested in quite a few solar, wind and other renewable energy companies. Yes, like any investment it is a gamble – but that’s like. And, considering I retired (second time) last year, and I’m still shy of 60, I’d say they are paying off.

Like you, I’m a proud Capitalist – but I acknowledge the flaws and brutality of unregulated Capitalism.

Russ
23 days ago
Reply to  Jeff Craig

Jeff, watch closely what happens in Europe this winter. They gave up their electric production to Russian gas. Bragged about meeting zero emissions goals, all the while depending on Russian gas and oil. Sadly, soon we may witness what happens when we get ahead of ourselves with unwise goals set by well meaning politicians.

Ted
24 days ago
Reply to  B N S

California’s environment stupidity is ALL about POWER! Wake up America!

C.M.
22 days ago
Reply to  B N S

+2

dawn
24 days ago

as we travel around I see many campgrounds that post that charging EVs on their sites is forbidden. Someone traveling long term if not full time, could find charging their class B or toad difficult.

Jeff Craig
24 days ago
Reply to  dawn

Campground operators like this will have to adapt to the changes in the market. Just like they had to add power, then 30A and now 50A service for bigger rigs. I’d bet the parks you reference are the kind that do not charge much per night, and are worried about absorbing the extra $10- for power to charge up an EV for someone staying one night. They also probably have a corporate power utility, instead of a public one, so naturally their rates WILL BE higher.

Just as the market changed from whale oil to petroleum, the market is changing again. As with everything else in life, adapt and evolve, or die.

Ed D.
24 days ago
Reply to  Jeff Craig

No, the market will not fully change. Those States that still embrace common sense and not the woke garbage that people like you and States like Cali. are spewing, will continue to use Gas as their means of Transportation fuel. Dream on. I am not sure what stake you have in the EV market but I have to believe you have some stake in it.

Jeff Craig
22 days ago
Reply to  Ed D.

I have nothing other than some stocks I’ve invested in, but not enough to impact their futures, or mine if they go bankrupt. I am just a guy who listens to the scientist warnings that we can not continue crapping in the same bed we sleep in and nit risk drowning in our own waste. It’s already happening all across the planet, and the fires, floods, massive hailstorms, and other issues are all in line with what climatologists have predicted over the last 20 years – but much sooner that they expected. I want to limit the damage so our kids, and following generations do not suffer from our mistakes.

As for being ‘woke’, yeah, maybe you could call me that. You say woke like it’s a bad thing. All I did was wake up to the baloney that oil companies, and certain political figures that were funded by them, kept lying about. And don’t get me started on the two wars I basically fought for Oil….

Do some research, I’m betting you’ll join me.

Ed D.
22 days ago
Reply to  Jeff Craig

You would definitely lose that bet. What I love is that guys like Al Gore who fly all over the world in their Jet Aircraft preaching against the very mode of Transportation they used to get there. What a bunch of hypocrites. I figured you had vested interest in the industry.

Wayne C
24 days ago

There is no such thing as a “zero emission vehicle “. The emissions are simply transferred elsewhere. Even riding a bicycle produces “green house gas”. I would like to see a study comparing fossil fuel emissions compared to battery production / disposal and the associated emission of upgrading the power grid. I also would like to see data on the carbon footprint per kilowatt of solar panels and wind turbines.

Ed D.
24 days ago
Reply to  Wayne C

You will never see that because that would pull the curtain back on these phonies.

Bob p
24 days ago

The loop hole is manufacture’s simply raise GVWs above 8500 lbs. it’s been done before back in 1975 when trucks under 6001 lbs had to have cat converters, the manufacturers raised all the GVWs to 6050 lbs called them heavy 1/2 tons. So every class B van is rated at 8501 lbs GVW. Put 3/4T axles and suspensions under californiicate destined vehicles and they’re within the law.

Bob M
22 days ago
Reply to  Bob p

The postal service just did something similar to buy their new ICE mail trucks. I’m for hybrids, not electric vehicles yet. We need to gradually work our way toward total electric. Wait till our government breaks it to us the new tax to pay for roads. I saw the F150 Ford Lighting at the Ford dealership priced at $81,000.

Bob p
19 days ago
Reply to  Bob M

I just bought a Toyota Camry hybrid, I call it my anti Biden anti drilling car. It gets 57.8 mpg around town and 47.6 mpg at 75 mph. I love it, I would never buy an EV and be tied to politicians like CA. Where they tell me not to charge my car after they forced me to buy one. Until the infrastructure is in place and the technology is there to where I can pull into a charging station and recharge like I fill up my 13.9 gal gas tank, I’ll never own one. That’s a long way down the road, when the power companies start spending billions to upgrade their part of the grid I’ll believe the change over to EVs is coming.

Roger Lilly
24 days ago

California’s radical left will probably add more taxes on fossil fuels until they get to the point of forcing people into electric vehicles. I can’t imagine they would wait until 2035 to implement the first restriction.
In 2026, 35 percent of new car and light-duty truck sales must be ZEV; by 2030, that will rise to 68 percent. I wonder how that will be enforced. If you go to buy a vehicle in 2026 and your purchase would move the needle past 35% will you be denied?

Jeff Craig
24 days ago
Reply to  Roger Lilly

LOL – ‘Radical Left’. As compared to the ‘Radical Right’ that tried to overthrow our government for their own selfish reasons? Puh-leeze…..

Mike
24 days ago
Reply to  Roger Lilly

If they don’t have gas tax to maintain roads they will tax even more to charge one of those junkers up. So you have save nothing but will be taxed a lot more.

Jeff Craig
24 days ago
Reply to  Mike

Hmmm. Okay, interesting point. How do they pay for roads in Texas, Florida, Pennsylvania, Oklahoma, etc??? TOLL ROADS. So, people pay for using the roads they drive on. Mileage fees (say $0,01 per mile per ton) will eventually replace a gas tax, or we can keep using tolls. Most West Coast states realized a long time ago, you can’t build new roads to handle growth, because you will always be 30 years behind the needs and it only fuels more unsustainable growth. Light rail, Bus Rapid Transit and subways will fix the issues in metropolitan areas, while EV recharging or swap stations will cover the areas in between.

Sign up for the RVtravel Newsletter

Your information will *never* be shared or sold to a 3rd party.

Subscribe to our newsletter

Every Saturday and Sunday morning. Serving RVers for more than 20 years.