Monday, December 4, 2023


Homeless street RVers may need official “poop” permit

RV curbside campers in Seattle may soon need to obtain a “secure discharge permit” from the state Department of Ecology. The problem of human waste on city streets has forced one lawmaker to propose a law to control the practice.

“You can’t go to a camping spot in a state park and poop on the ground,” said State Sen. Tim Sheldon. “Let’s get real on this and start enforcing laws that are already on the books and they should apply to everyone.”

Street RVers in Seattle.

The bill he introduced in the legislature would apply only to cities that have shoreline on Puget Sound as a way to protect water quality. He explained that requiring permits would allow regulators to determine if the camper discharges comply with state laws, or if they need to move.

If passed, it would regulate curbside campers as “point-source dischargers,” just like factories and sewage treatment plants.

Please watch your comments. No mention of political parties or individual politicians. Those comments will be immediately deleted. Such terminology sets the know-it-alls into crazed mode. Please be intelligent and polite or please do not comment. Thank you.

Chuck Woodbury
Chuck Woodbury
I'm the founder and publisher of I've been a writer and publisher for most of my adult life, and spent a total of at least a half-dozen years of that time traveling the USA and Canada in a motorhome.



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Tom Lahnala (@guest_62731)
3 years ago

It may be more effective and potentially less expensive to have a septic pump truck go around and periodically pump out the tanks of these RV’s.
Making a law won’t remove the RV sewage.

Suellen (@guest_62614)
3 years ago

The homeless situation is horrible. Sadly some families can’t afford anything but an old RV. One very nice thing about living in Washington state is that most of the rest stops have free dump stations. Very nice and payed for by our RV registration fees. Perhaps this information could be shared. And yes the laws need to be enforced.

Chulookin (@guest_62531)
3 years ago

Up north in Canada, the homeless drug addicts do it right in front of you walking down the sidewalk. Junkies just squat & not only squirt this gross #2 all over but power hurl rank puke the other way….last week was bad as some bad norovirus had everybody power hurling puke unexpectedly where you hoped you were safe from such conduct like a restaurant which sent everyone rushing for the til to pay their bill… all the homeless shelters shut down & quarantined homeless were whisked off so the places could be sterilized…the cops really harass the folks living in RV’s up here listing them as addict/ Meth dealers…
I considered buying a 45 foot class A bus with slides for $700k CAD but worry I’ll be labelled as a weirdo & stalked by the R.C.M.P. up here….

Hubert Hurst (@guest_62499)
3 years ago

Most of us old-time RV owners have stayed in parks where there is a fellow who comes around and will collect your holding tank contents for a few bucks. Why don’t the power in Seattle help out the folks trying to stay alive parking on the street? You know the old statement, “I’m from the government and I’m here to help you”.

Gary (@guest_62493)
3 years ago

I’m sure it’s already illegal to dump tanks directly to the ground or into storm sewers. Permitted point source dischargers are required to provide treatment and meet certain discharge standards before releasing water to the environment. I find it highly doubtful RVer’s will start installing treatment systems to comply. I can’t understand what they think issuing a discharge permit, which isn’t even applicable to this situation, is going to accomplish. The cities would do better to send around pump trucks or establish dump stations for the RVs.

Harry (@guest_63158)
3 years ago
Reply to  Gary

Your comment is the only one so far that seem like it would work

David Allen (@guest_62476)
3 years ago

The same idiots that poop on the streets in the first place, knowing it is illegal, will not buy permits even if it passes. It’s another law that will not work.

Rick (@guest_62466)
3 years ago

Welcome to the Socialist Republic of Seattle.

mdstudey (@guest_62393)
3 years ago

Why not provide a Poop truck service? Then if they discharge on the ground fine them and haul their RV away. Some of these people just cannot either find or afford housing in a certain areas.

Karin S. (@guest_62410)
3 years ago
Reply to  mdstudey

Hopefully your expectation is they pay for that service.

Tom Smithbrother (@guest_62373)
3 years ago

Yes make it illegal for people to have a biological function. Talk about overreach . Laws against public urination has been in front of the Supreme court and found to be unconstitutional as well. Do the words, tax paid for “public utility” mean anything anymore? Way over taxed already. No thank you for more financial burdens.

Dale Sain (@guest_62404)
3 years ago

Talk about “overreach,” your comment stretches this issue beyond belief. Nobody’s talking about stopping you from pooping. Sheesh. Just don’t dump your black tank in the gutter. Unless you wouldn’t mind if they dumped in front of your house. Are you suggesting we divert those precious tax dollars (yours, ‘cuz the homeless folks aren’t paying much) to catch & filter this stuff from the drains? Yeah, I didn’t think so.

Karin S. (@guest_62413)
3 years ago

Oh my goodness. That is not what the law is proposing. Let me ask you this…if someone was parked with their RV in front of your house, you would be okay with them dumping their black tank right there in the street? This is just wrong on so many levels.

Darrel (@guest_62525)
3 years ago

Please provide your address. When in your area I will know where to dump my black tank and perhaps poop on your doorstep. Thanks for understanding.

Chulookin (@guest_62533)
3 years ago

I had a p in a back alley & some lady watched me then called the cops, I got six months in jail for an indecent act. So what lawyer do you have?

WEB (@guest_62597)
3 years ago
Reply to  Chulookin

And you are worried your $700k MH would make you a ‘weirdo’… Must be from BC

Ann (@guest_62359)
3 years ago

Seattle already bans RV’s from overnight parking on city streets. If they’re not enforcing that, are they really going to enforce a “poop permit?”

I haven’t lived in Seattle for several years, so I have no idea what they’re enforcing or not these days. When I lived there, RV parking enforcement was inconsistent. Which was frustrating for everyone.

Mike (@guest_62398)
3 years ago
Reply to  Ann

My thoughts exactly. I used to live in Washington (Tacoma) in the late 70’s/early 80’s. I’ll never move back unfortunately because of “crap” like this.

Alvin (@guest_62345)
3 years ago

Good luck with that Seattle!

In a recent {bleeped} for tat with the mayor of my city in reference to the drug problem, when asked why laws and rules of conduct anchoring civility aren’t being adhered to, he responded to me as follows. ” ……. police leadership recognize the futility of arresting chronic addicts. Our court systems do not need to be clogged further with individuals who can’t pay fines” Can you believe it?

Sheer lunacy coming from the lead elected official whose foremost position should be that of ensuring the safety and security of a population.

If I’m betting – it’s the same attitude everywhere,

Key word “futility”

Jeff (@guest_62363)
3 years ago
Reply to  Alvin

You are correct! These “Authorities” simply want to keep their OVERPAID, PHONEY BALONEY Jobs!

fratermus (@guest_62386)
3 years ago
Reply to  Alvin

The mayor is telling you the drug war is an expensive sham. Pushing harder on an expensive sham isn’t going to improve things.

Darrel (@guest_62526)
3 years ago
Reply to  fratermus

Locking addicts up in prison lowers crime rates, and hopefully cleans up their drug habit for at least the length of their sentence.

Chulookin (@guest_62534)
3 years ago
Reply to  Alvin

What happened to the Three Strikes Law… put them away forever tending to Walmart gardens…maybe that will slow the cartels Meth business…
Really 1980’s signing in each time we post.

Silas Longshot (@guest_62339)
3 years ago

One of the prime causes of this mess is the insane housing costs in LA, Seattle, etc, like $2,000 / month for small 1 bedroom dump! Couples are both employed, sometimes with 2 jobs, and having to live in their car. The tent cities, however, are a total responsibility of the idiotic liberal policies, like free needles.

Larry (@guest_62348)
3 years ago
Reply to  Silas Longshot

Instead name calling and bashing (No I am not a Liberal) provide some ideas/solutions to the problems.

Jeff (@guest_62365)
3 years ago
Reply to  Larry

The ideas I have would not go over well and would cost American Taxpayers too much! As if WE don’t already pay too many taxes.
One of the reasons SOCIALISM will never work in this country!

Alvin (@guest_62352)
3 years ago
Reply to  Silas Longshot

Funny how its name calling when in disagreement. But when the kids at Berkely rage on campus, they’re considered a pack of innocent children exercising their freedom of expression – raging on the 1%er funding 47% of their “good life”

fratermus (@guest_62387)
3 years ago
Reply to  Silas Longshot

non sequitur

Chulookin (@guest_62535)
3 years ago
Reply to  Silas Longshot

Sounds like the Realtors should be paying EXTRA taxes to accommodate the policing/ enforcement of these laws…here the homeless b&e an empty corporate mansion & light it on fire to make a point…

littleleftie (@guest_62333)
3 years ago

These homeless caravans are a true hazard plus they give “real” Rvers a terrible reputation, totally undeserved! The situation isn’t unique to Seattle, obviously, but at least they are trying there to find a workable solution. One comment—-don’t bash me!—–is this: it amazes me that this whole situation is tolerated. Drugs, syringes, trash, urine, poop….honestly–these people, the vast majority of them—refuse offered shelter in hostels or homeless shelters because they “don’t like the rules”. And society is expected to cater to them with the “poor them” mentality….rushing out to do whatever can be done to allow them to live for free, without rules, all the while trying not to offend them. Really? I have to live by the rules. I have to pay my own way. I cannot sit on my {bleeped} and do drugs and/or drink all day and expect someone to feed, clothe and shelter me! Should they not like the expectations, rules and morals that living in a society demands one follow, perhaps they should haul their caravans somewhere –like out into the desert perhaps–and make their own, new society. We’ll see how long THAT lasts before they come running back with their tails between their legs, willing to follow those same rules that they chose to ignore, when they realize that life isn’t all about being handed everything without expectations in return. Okay, I will step off of my soapbox and crawl back into my hole.

Danny Morrell (@guest_62475)
3 years ago
Reply to  littleleftie

You and I are on the same track. Municipalities will never solve the problem they are weak. The Federal Government will have to construct camps in the deserts, Arizona, California, Round up all the homeless across the United States give them shelter, medical, food, and mental health. They all have to work, to their abilities, and earn their way out of the camps by proving they can support themselves. No drugs, no alcohol, extreme structure. The have lost their rights as citizens to be free on the streets of the United States. If they unable to leave the camps so be it. At least they will have a drug free life with a minimum life style supported by us the tax payers. Oh BTW big corporations like Google, and others Facebook etc. will have a special tax to help support these less fortunate people. This has become a problem in every city across the United States….drastic measures for drastic people. Churches and communities can no longer keep up with the demand of the poor, mental disorders, and free loaders.

Victoria (@guest_62548)
3 years ago
Reply to  Danny Morrell

Do you really expect the big corporations to suddenly start paying taxes like the rest of us schmucks?!? Also have you not heard of Slab City?

Jeff (@guest_62316)
3 years ago


First off, why is Seattle even letting these RV’s Park / Camp on the City Streets anyway. Yes, I know they are homeless, but in most cases they arrived at Homelessness by their own doing! The idea that these people can’t help it, is total BS! When I see panhandlers on city streets begging for money, it makes me ill. Or those people with signs: “Will Work For Food”. Try handing them a Hamburger from McDonalds or someplace and they won’t take it. They want your CASH instead!

I could go on and on, but Seattle and other cities needs to drop the Hammer and Move these people off the City Streets. Get the Tow Trucks out, hook up and drag these wreck RV’s someplace else. Preferrably to a Junk Yard.

As the politician says: “Start enforcing the Laws that are already on the books!”

Well, let the bashing begin!

Maureen (@guest_62317)
3 years ago
Reply to  Jeff

We are originally from Colorado and are one loan’ to Virginia, for my husband’s work. CS and Denver are a mess! The homeless in CS refuse to use the overnight housing provided to them because they can’t drink or do drugs while there and pets are not allowed. So, they camp along the stream that runs through town, underneath the highway/street bridges and in the wooded areas, with all focal/urine/trash going right into the watershed. They’ve destroyed the resident built city mountain biking trail with used syringes/needles, broken glass and trash. It’s disgusting and a real mess to look at. They fight amongst themselves, get injured and tie up medical services within the community. I see no end to this problem and no good solutions. Eventually, something’s going to happen: they get rounded up and put in the middle of no wheresville OR they take over our cities and we move to no wheresville….

Jeff (@guest_62336)
3 years ago
Reply to  Maureen

And consider San Francisco’s problems too. Feeces and urine all over the place in the downtown area. You have to watch where you step! Makes you want to GAG!

This is a political problem and the politicians won’t do anything about it, because they want to keep their PHONEY BALONEY JOBS! You don’t want to anger the Liberals who think Taxpayers should be handing out all the Freebies to these POOR, POOR People! Poor People my {bleeped}, if they are able to stand on a street corner and BEG for money, then they are able to get a job and work!

Until people in these cities Grow a PAIR (as the saying goes) nothing will change. Hard choices need to be made to correct these problems! If the POOR PEOPLE get hurt in the process, maybe the POOR PEOPLE need to wake up and QUIT depending on the Government to bail them out!

Alvin (@guest_62350)
3 years ago
Reply to  Jeff

Agree with you jeff. There’s a rod that starts with S I seem to not be able to use on this site but its a political system that’s been tried many places on this earth and not much good came of it. In Lethbridge Alberta where today our supervised consumption site “serves daily” over 700 what are termed “clients” we taxpayers support a work force of well over 100 people. The mantra “we’re saving lives”

Yes “saving lives” while the inner core goes completely to hell. There is barely enough paper to paper the windows that haven’t been smashed out.

San Fran and Denver have nothing on Lethbridge Alberta Canada and dozens of other places similarly impacted with drugs, crime and social dysfunction in what we’re constantly being told is the “best place in the world to live.
Maybe so if you’re a doper, there’s lots going on for them all of it I involuntarily fund, alongside everyone else who worked 12/14 hour days for 40 plus years.

Gman (@guest_62354)
3 years ago
Reply to  Jeff

Stop it already with the blame game. Regardless of political affiliation, it’s an ongoing and worsening problem. This is a problem that OUR Government, all parties, need to resolve. No “{bleeped} for tat, no quid pro quid”, it’s a win, win for all.

Victoria (@guest_62549)
3 years ago
Reply to  Gman

The government will never help. It is and started the problem. The CIA watch over the drugs and our troops protect poppy fields over seas. I would imagine many of these people in California were burned out of their homes and can’t afford to get a new home and have fallen into homelessness exasperating the problems. The insurance companies aren’t paying out for those folks either. It has been years since the first fires started and many of those people still have no homes. I’m not saying having the streets used as toilets isn’t an issue. It most defenately is. But running the sanitation crews through and taking the tents and shelters away from them is not going to solve the problem. Kick em when they are down doesn’t work and makes everything worse. People making minimum wage can’t get a home in these areas. There isn’t adequate low income housing. There are only slum lords and price gougers. How many buildings in every city sit vacant? Why? Why can’t they be made into low income housing? Meanwhile FEMA can’t be bothered to do their jobs. Our military is in almost every other country. Why? Drugs and oil, mostly. Under the guise of helping them rebuild, probably. Who is here to help us rebuild when we need it? No one. We have had more than our share of hurricanes and fires and people are going to follow the weather when they have nothing left to loose. The government isn;t the solution, It is the problem

pam (@guest_62323)
3 years ago
Reply to  Jeff

Why can’t they bag their poop like a dog poop bag, And just throw it away. Also they could flush to P after going into a container of some sort.
I think they should be allowed to stay as long as their vehicle is registered.

Alvin (@guest_62346)
3 years ago
Reply to  Jeff

jeff, you are so correct,

Over a lifetime I have tried successfully and unsuccessfully to help folks in need. You are dead on when you say you can’t buy them a hamburger – they want money – money for drugs.
There’s a really rough character who hangs around a Thrift store the lady and I frequent. I have had a conversation or two with this hapless fellow. some good some bad.

One day I offered to take him over to the nearby grocery, store with a Starbucks attached, sit with him, buy him a coffee and muffin, while the lady shopped.

Not a chance, I said “why” ? He said he’d lose his position doing his job. I said but you don’t have a job. He said yes I do. His “job” is panhandling folks going in and out of that store!
How sad – so very very sad. I’ll get him that coffee & blueberry muffin one day – that is on one of his slow days at which time I’ll get his story, I’ll bet it is a dandy.

Jeff (@guest_62368)
3 years ago
Reply to  Alvin

You know Alvin, there was an article published not too long ago, about a group of supposed homeless, that had set up a Pan Handler network on street corners, pretending to be homeless. Someone took the time to watch this situation and found out that this group would swap out about every 4 hours. Come to find out at the end of the day, these people made out like BANDITS and actually lived in very expensive Homes and had new cars and trucks!
So, for all the bleeding hearts that handed over their cash to these Vagrant Criminals, then who is the real fools.
And the Scam continues with NO Police action or other action being taken by authorities.

Clint (@guest_62349)
3 years ago
Reply to  Jeff

Join the discussion…Where would this “someplace” be? Tow them to where? All I see is a bunch of people jumping on the bash band wagon and not providing solutions?

Jeff (@guest_62369)
3 years ago
Reply to  Clint

They did an article on what to do with some of these Rolling Wrecks and I believe it was in Seattle.
They condemned the vehicles for being unsafe and not road worthy and began hauling them off to the Junk Yards and Crushing them up!
As for the people, I don’t know what happened to them.

fratermus (@guest_62383)
3 years ago
Reply to  Jeff
Sink Jaxon (@guest_62446)
3 years ago
Reply to  fratermus

fratermus really? what is this nonsensical site you put a link to?

Jim (@guest_62407)
3 years ago
Reply to  Jeff

YES!!!!! I’m with you Jeff!

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