Dear Dave,
Our camper has the Arctic Package, so there is a sheet of corrugated plastic insulation covering the bottom of the frame. In preparing for a long camping trip for the eclipse I decided it would be good if I located the manual operator for the slide room in case we have a problem with our slide when far away from easily accessing technical support.
When I looked it up in the manual I was referred to a Lippert website but there was no documentation as to the exact model of the slide operator on our camper. I noticed in the Lippert documentation that the assembly most resembling the visible parts on our camper showed an operator tube beside the back rack and pinion rail. There is a panel made out of the same corrugated material screwed into the bottom, inline with the operator tube, located between the centerline of the camper and the passenger side frame rail. I reached out to Keystone through my dealer and they only referred me back to the Lippert manual.
Looking for manual slide room operator
I decided to remove the panel to see if the manual operator was behind it. The Lippert manual shows a shaft attached to the back side of the motor gearbox extending through a hole in the passenger side frame where a crank can be attached. When I removed the panel there was no access hole behind it. I carefully cut a 6″x8″ hole in the corrugated insulation in the middle of the area that the panel covers. With that hole I could not see the manual operator but I could feel around the backside of the gearbox. The shaft was smooth with a hole drilled laterally at the end.
Our frame has no access hole. We have friends with the same model but a couple years older. I have fabricated a temporary solution but am perplexed at this arrangement and the dismissive attitude by Keystone.
I had to drop the steel gas line to pry the insulation down far enough to get a picture of the manual operator shaft from the passenger side.
My question: Is this common among campers or a lapse at the factory? —Bill, 2021 Keystone Springdale SG266RL
Dear Bill,
It was hard to tell just where your motor was located by the original photo, so I sent your question to my Keystone contact.
Reply from Keystone
Here is what I got back, with a screen capture of the manual procedure and a little better photo.
David, they make a slip over hex headed attachment that you put a pin in and operate this with a ratchet and a ¾ inch socket. If I am not mistaken, they were shipping the attachment with all the paperwork and remote controls to the dealerships. They would be in the blue zipper bag when shipped, I believe.
It sure is easy to get to the hex head with a socket when the rest of the RV is not attached! So, I emailed him back to question the accessibility through the frame or from underneath, and got this response:
Some of the units did have the hole in the beam for the rod to go through, yes. I don’t have a VIN on this one to know if it should have had it. But many didn’t have that option, no. They normally would have an access square to remove and get to it with the ratchet and socket.
What is the “silo effect” in RV design?
The key word here is “normally”! I do not believe this is a common issue with RVs, but rather a lack of communication and faulty design. We called it the “silo effect”: Engineers and designers have offices in individual silos. The first designs the floorplan and what they want, then throws the plans out their silo to the first engineer. He then draws up the plans for the chassis, outriggers, and other components he is in charge of. Then he throws his plans to the engineer in the next silo. That engineer develops the plans for the slide rooms and other components and throws the plans to the next silo.
None of these people in the individual silos sees what happens after their drawing is completed. Since they do not use the units, they don’t see what the issue is.
At the end, the “options” silo adds the “Artic Package”. That sounds really neat and a “WOW” factor, and wouldn’t it be great to cover the underbelly to protect things from freezing. He does not consult with the person in the slide room silo! That is when you get the issues such as yours.
It has happened for as long as I can remember. I took demo units out for five years when I worked at Winnebago. I was traveling the country training dealers on the features and benefits. What the designers and engineers thought was really cool and innovative many times did not perform as desired or did not work at all!
Covid Build timeframe
Another factor was that your unit is a 2021 and falls into the Covid Build timeframe. That means they were cranking these things out faster than possible and even shipping units without several major appliances. Add to that, manufacturers had to shut down for a period of time and workers could make more on unemployment than going back to work, so the RV manufacturers had to ramp up with untrained workers. So, I do believe there was a lack of communication. Add that to the “silo effect” and I would be happy with just an access panel not being installed.
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Painful answer to this one.
Silo effect is a far too polite term to describe the design of the RV’s we buy, but the proper term is far too vulgar to publish in any media.
In my neck of the woods, it is simply poor engineering. And poor upper management to not fix it. It’s not that hard for people to talk to each other. It’s also not that hard to have a checklist that says when artic option is selected, this, this and that needs to be done.
What a nightmare if the slide quit working and he couldn’t crank it in because of missing parts. Makes you wonder if you should buy an RV from Keystone. I also thought it was designed to crank in with a drill. Seems like it would be a lot of work cranking in with a ratchet.
When at the factory years ago, I asked how I could crank the slide in if for some reason, it failed. We crawled under the slide (open) and the guy showed me where to put the socket to make the slide go in (or out). He said I should hand-crank it. There was some rubber-covered switch I had to [click] to unlock the mechanism. Luckily I’ve never had to use this – because I’ve forgotten everything – 😀
It may be Silo Effect but it’s also just plain Lazy Effect to not understand your engineering requirements before designing a solution.
As a side note, what is “Arctic” about a thin corrugated plastic sheet with a little airspace between that and the floor?
Thank you, Dave! The discussion of the numerous “silos” involved in making an RV from drawing board to the dealership is fascinating, but also horrifying from an owner’s perspective. Thanks also for passing along Keystone’s information! Have a great day and weekend, Dave! Safe travels! 🙂
PS to Diane, do I just need to refreash, or is the title and link to a similar question for Dave missing? Thank yoy! Have a great day and weekend! 🙂
Aargh! Nope, that was my mistake.😖 I had a post picked out to put in and then got interrupted and forgot to go back and finish the job. Shoot! I’ve inserted the missing info. Thanks for letting me know, Neal, and so politely.👍🤗 I hope you have a great day and weekend also. 😀 –Diane
You’re very welcome, Diane! 🙂 Thank you! Midway, more or less, to DC and overnighting in Max Meadows (how’s that for a name?!), Virginia. Do think it will be good. Have not been towed home and are about 5 hours into our trip. 🙂 [Two weeks ago we were about 160 miles into a 220-mile trip, broke down, and the RV was towed back to Chattanooga.] I know about interruptions, Diane, and have a similar problem. 🙁 I told DW this week that I cannot DO anything later because I’ll have forgotten it by then. 🤔😯😊 Have a great weekend, safe travels, and good night, Diane! 🙂
Thanks, Neal. I’m getting the same way. I’ll think of something, decide I’d better write it down before I forget, and by the time I grab a pencil I’ve forgotten. (Well, sometimes, anyway. But it’s almost that bad.😕) Have a great trip, with no more breakdowns!🤞 And have a good night. 🤗 –Diane
😊
The ‘silo’ effect exaggerates and worsens the real problem: too many designs, for far too many new models each year, rushed to production, too difficult for quality builds. There’s a reason the better makers keep standard models around for years. We all love innovation, but we have gone way overboard in throwing away quality to get it.
👍👍 Have a great day, wanderer. 😀 –Diane at RVtravel.com
A good example of why RV Mfg need to require the people that design the assy of components to actually do the required maintenance to address future problems. Bet if the head of Keystone was challenged with fixing a non-functioning slide we would see a quick revision to the design of the RV.
Right or wrong, when my slide controller (as I understood it, it’s a little box that relays power to the slide motor from the slide switch) failed, and a new one was priced out at $400.00, I by-passed the controller and put in a heavy duty switch (similar to that used in the landing gear) for under $50.00. This might help someone else.
You’re so smart, Impavid! Have a good night.🤗 –Diane
I often have to cut through the corrugated plastic belly pans to access black/grey tank valves or other things. I typically cut an 8″ circular hole to work through, then when I’m done I install a marine access panel back into the belly pan with silicon and screws. Those screw-in marine panels allow for ease of access next time, and make a great seal.