By Gail Marsh
I’ve just been thinking … What if actual RVers could make suggestions directly to the RV industry, its manufacturers, and/or designers? I know what I’d suggest! It would be all about doors, and my letter would read something like this:
Dear RVIA,
Please design a latch mechanism for RV entry/exit doors that doesn’t require a person to slam the door in order to securely close it. I have yet to find a way to quietly close our RV door. The necessary slamming often disturbs other family members who prefer “sleeping in” when camping out.
And while you’re at it, could you take a look at the closures on RV cabinet doors? I don’t understand how the cabinet doors seem to open easily when our RV is moving down the road but require a real hard tug when I need to open that same cabinet when parked. What gives?
Sincerely,
Gail (an actual RVer)
How about you? If you could communicate directly with industry leaders (designers and engineers), what would you suggest for RV improvements? If we’re lucky, maybe someone in RVIA will read and consider implementing our suggestions.
##RVT1001
Hi Gail. On slamming doors, I wonder if you have tried what I do.
I just hate the slam too.
It often requires two hands, but with practice I have got pretty adept at doing this with just one.
It also helps for quiet opening. Firsts, on the inside, pull the door towards you with your left hand (grasp the solid door pull). This releases pressure on the latch. Now pull the latch release with your right hand. Slowly let the door swing open with your left hand still holding the pull.
Once outside push the door almost closed and then lift the outside latch handle with your right hand and push the door slowly and firmly shut with your left hand. While pressing firmly slowly release the latch handle.
Using this technique the door will open and close almost silently.
I have used this method on many many doors (my own 5 rigs and many friends).
X2 on Tim’s suggestions of holding the latch open, close the door quietly, and release the latch. It may take a small push to completely latch the door but it is a quiet push.
I also agree with Jean that designers should be required to live in one before designing one.
We do this too, when trying to maintain some sort of “quiet”. It works well.
Dear editor, Love this section of the news letter. My wife had me believing I was a winer!
Don’t SCAM us! For instance Good Sam’s…we paid faithfully over 900$ per quarter for Good Sam’s Roadside Assistance for three solid years. When we had a breakdown requiring a tow costing $510 they would not pay a dime. The extended warranty is a joke. Tough lesson learned but evidently this is a common abuse in the RV industry. I now refer to them as “GOOD SCAMS”.
If RV designers were required to actually stay in an RV (with their families) for an extended period of time, I’ll bet they would understand the issues and design much more functional floorplans.
Where do I start? 1. Get rid of the hideous exterior paint schematics. 2. Upgrade the interior decor that doesn’t look like a brothel. 3. Improve the quality of the product. 4. Assume some responsibility for “problems” that do occur. 4. Reduce the redundancy and confusion with so many models – Forest River offers over 420 different models/floor plans just in the travel trailer segment. 5. Train more RV techs to work in the industry. Yadda, yadda.
how about you do 2 things:
Build new rv parks all over America. You make the RV-why not build places to park them? You created the audience!
Lobby Congress to stop insane Green New Deal rendering all our RV’s worthless because gas/diesel is too expensive! Forget EV – it is a fraud.
PLEASE install residential branded electronics! The Furion TV’s are not quality units, are not internet “smart” ready, and have a remote with 100 different useless buttons, and you CANNOT program a universal remote to replace them! Having separate remotes for the TV, IRV stereo, and fireplace unit is ridiculous.
Build a quality RV and Stand behind what you build.
Agreed Ron!! Wouldn’t it be nice if we didn’t have to ASK for that and just EXPECT it??!!
“Stand behind what you build.”
No, can’t do that. There are too many of us that will back right over them (maybe twice!!).
Right on how about some quality control. Quit sending out poor build quality your employees need to take pride in the product.
Inject some Quality Control into your manufacturing process (there very clearly is NONE), Do a thorough inspection of every system before shipping each unit, and reserve space in your facility for warranty repairs. This industry is an embarrassment to our Country.
Here is a solution- For new units only.
If your new coach or trailer needs work to correct a defect in workmanship, then the manufacture will pay the loan and storage bill as long as the unit is at their service center. If your coach is at the center for two months, then they pay two months of loan and storage payments.
Have Thor do this for a summer and I guarantee the increase in quality will be coming.
Create a mobile repair service to deal with warranty issues. Dealers can’t handle the volume.
Doors? While you are at it , how about a wider door option for big folks and / or handicapped? Warranty, how about one like cars and trucks have ?
Heck just getting stuff in and out would be a good enough reason for a bigger door.
NO CARPET!! With little room for varying routes thru the RV carpet wears out quickly
AGREE!!!!!
Please put on quality tires and mattresses from the git go. If we are willing to pay for these extras after we purchase our $40K+ rigs, why not include them from the beginning and just charge us a bit extra? I’d like to see a survey of how many folks “upgrade” within the first year of their initial purchase, I’m sure the manufacturers would like to know as well!
Never slept in the mattress that came with our rig. Put a new mattress in the day we bought it.
Bought a new mattress after a month of exchanging pumps and air cylinders. Just crazy aggravation to save a couple of $.
My suggestion falls into the “who designed this?” category:
I’ve had two RV’s now where the black/grey water “flush” bib is directly above the freshwater fill bib. Wouldn’t cost a dime to reverse the two at point of install…
I would want my freshwater fill bib ABOVE the flush bib to reduce the risk of any contamination to my freshwater hose…
How about on doors a mechanism allowing opening of both screen and main door without having to slide cover open
Window screens that actually stop bugs and go on and off easily for cleaning.
An owner’s manual with complete and thorough operating and maintenance instructions for everything in the RV. Also wiring and plumbing schematics for systems in the RV. The entire industry needs to focus on quality, rather than quantity. If the industry would focus on quality and service, sales would follow. And stop saying that an RV is undergoing earthquake trauma as it travels down the road, although it is true. Build quality into the units and let’s figure out how to build units to survive those “earthquakes.” Build them right and no more excuses!
agree, the need for wiring, plumbing and wall schematics so we know where everything is behind the walls
I agree whole heartedly.
I have a Schematic For my 2020 Jayco Grey Hawk 33’8″ where everything is shown but 90% you can’t access. Like the bypass for water heater, it shows where it is but you cannot access it????
more or better insulation
First time TT owner and our complaint is the drain for our tub/shower is in the center instead of underneath the faucets. It is right where you stand so you step on it and after a few minutes realize water is around your ankles.
I think better proportioning of the tanks. No one needs a black tank the same size as the grey as you have to dump the grey long before the black. Making larger grey(75) and smaller black(25) would still use the same amount of space. Also matching with a fresh tank that has as much as the 2 tanks combined.
Include grey water pump for flushing as standard – have switch to use fresh water or grey water which ever is desired!
👍👍👍 It would save lots of water
That is one great idea!
👍👍👍
Every camper should have a closet at the entry to hang dog leashes, coats and a towel to dry off the dog(s) and to put a couple of shoes. Our Cedar Creek has one and I love it!
Campers should also come equipped to secure the fridge and freezer doors open when not in use so they don’t swing open.
Most importantly, all campers should be FULLY INSPECTED to be sure EVERYTHING is in working condition!!! People should not be asked to spend thousands (and I mean thousands) of dollars and receive a trailer where, for example, tanks don’t flush properly or that don’t accurately read/report how full tanks are as you are camping
there should be a quality control inspector for each and every phase of construction/assembly with the authority to halt production and get items fixed.
As more full timers want residential appliances and more manufacturers are installing these in RVs, someone needs to address the great disconnect between warranty work, or any appliance repair. RV repair services won’t work on a residential appliance. Residential appliance repair services won’t work on any such appliance installed in an RV. Who wins? Certainly not the RV owner!
Gas – Class A (and other?) – install thick layer of sound dampner material and BETTER heat shield over dog box and sub flooring at Factory.
Provide QUALITY PATIO grade seat cushions around dinette that will with stand a 200lb toush for multiple/long term uses.
This may be trivial for some but how about a microwave that doesn’t have the rotating glass turntable. Every time you stop you have to put it back into position. Our home microwave has a flat glass insert that does not rotate and I feel like the rotation is not needed. So get that pain in the neck out of RV’s.
After hitting the mother of pot holes in our motorhome years ago our rotating glass came flying out and broke. Now we take the rotating glass out and store it on the bed.
Oh no. Our new TT is coming with this same pain in the neck so what we will do is cut a piece of plexiglass to fit
and put some small feet under it and get rid of the glass turntable. We’ve dealt with this turntable issue in too many campers we’ve had. Lesson learned.
My microwave locks and i never remove plate. You DO want a rotating plate because the magnetron has an interference pattern that you want to average out for even heating.
Stop using the short staple nails to secure everything. Please, use actual nails or screws that are long enough to keep parts attached. While you are at it, get rid of piece meal assembly and get better quality control.
How about using gray water to flush. I cant imagine why that would be an issue. Ban the hokey, worn out, tired swooshes and swoops designs. Better yet, make them an option. I’ll bet very few new buyers will spend an extra nickel for that nonsense. Quit making the interiors out of that cheesey plastic trim finished to look like luxurious oak or walnut. Most important of all, make appliances, batteries, plumbing, water heaters, etc. accessible without having to remove half of the interior or stand on my head for service. Almost forgot, make a decent surge protector a standard item.
How about adding a water hose spigot to the patio side? And how bout some 3 way light switches inside the door and near the bedroom? (I added this in mine)
We’ve had a F53 class A and would like to upgrade to a diesel pusher. My wife hates the front door on them as it greatly reduces her ability to see the sights due to the massive A pillar. The gas class A has a much smaller A pillar. The mid-door models available all have the small ISB engines. How about a mid-door with a bigger engine. We’d be willing to give up the floor space it would require for the better forward visibility.
Lots of good suggestions here. A few I would like…combine the black and gray tanks with sensors that operate accurately and give us a really good flush system. A decent screen door that you can use without needing to slide a little plastic window to open (we have a side to side retractable screen on a door in our S&B, something like that would be great in our RV). Components that are easily accessible for regular maintenance items. A built in water softener with an optional DI system. Residential appliances that can be accessed easily for service – and an agreement with the manufacturer that their factory authorized service centers will repair. A good ESP plan backed by the factory. Support additional campgrounds. Insist that your dealers provide quality, and timely, service for RV’s they sell –
or they lose their right to market the brand. I could go on…
This thread is great! My husband and I love our ’04 Winnebago Adventurer (which I feel comfortable driving.) I know there’s one manufacturer who makes a Class A with a garage/sleeping space for grandkids like the toy haulers (which I’m NOT comfortable driving). I wish Winnebago would produce one so we could buy it!
My first travel trailer (as well as MANY other RVs) had a “paddle type doorknob” on the inside. To open the door from the inside, I had to put a few fingers UNDER said “paddle” and PULL. If the wind was blowing down the side of my RV, said wind would “catch” the door pulling it off my fingers slamming it wide open. I really had NOTHING to hold onto so, the wind easily forced the door open and, did so VIOLENTLY. My current RV has a handle that I can EASILY hold onto thereby allowing ME to control how fast the door opens, even in windy conditions. I expect that a “paddle type” handle saves builders ~ $0.25 though so, MANY builders will take the cheap route. When wind finally does catch a door and cause damage, it’s not the builder who will have to pay for the repairs.
Chose our Cedar Creek model because the doorway/entrance area is fully protected by the awning when it rains. And it does rain.
So many models nowadays have a slide that comes very close to the door, and then awning ends near the slide, just barely covering the door. I have seen our kids suffer with this as rain can come down at an angle soaking the steps and carpet area. etc.
Please move the Microwave oven down to eye level or lower. Who wants to reach above their head to take a blistering hot dish from a microwave oven? I certainly don’t! We only found a single motor home model with the microwave below the counter. My wife is only 5 ft. 1 inch tall. Needless to say we bought it on the spot. I suggest you guys think before you design or maybe hire some women in your design departments.
Im 6’2 …and want the microwave HIGHER so I don’t have to kneel at the stove to see past the microwave. You can’t please everyone. More layout options maybe? I may relocate nuke sideways myself…
Have your dealers do a better job with service and turn around the work quickly. If you are under warranty and a dealer can’t make a service appointment in a timely fashion, allow mobile techs to do the repairs.
AGREE !
Each and every manufacture will have an independent quality control team. The leadership of this team will answer only to a vice-president or CEO of the company. If the team discovers an issue with quality, then they will have the authority to halt production until the error is corrected. If there are any units remaining at the factory, they will be rechecked for the quality error.
I could go on, but I think you get the idea.
Exactly. QA in this rush to market has suffered greatly. Every new A and C we’ve looked at had issues – some minor, some not so minor. When spending over 100K you don’t deserve shortcuts being made.
I would like RVIA to change the design standards for RV suspension systems to consider mostly full liquid tanks, full propane bottles, batteries, a standard personal load (food, clothes, etc. and other necessary (standard) equipment in the designation of GVWR.
Secondly, I would like to see the electrical wiring size consider loads and length of travel instead of just a minimum wire size for all DC loads.
I’m 6’2″ in a class A and I would ask them to start putting a more generous radius on all wood edges. Eliminate the overhead cabinet bump out over the drivers seat. Also give operating controls priority over cupholders. Why should you have to be feeling around for the exhaust brake switch or transmission control. Have some access to the area under the shower in case something starts to leak.
A three year warranty for your product.
Alliance RV did just this before manufacturing a single unit. They had a Facebook page where they asked many campers what they did or did not want in a new camper. They listened& designed their 5th wheels accordingly.
Quality over quantity
AGREE !
Establish paybacks to customers for all loss of use while waiting warranty work and increase warranties to at least 5 years. Show shower dimensions in all adds and make showers not smaller then 36″ by 36″. As the RV manufacturer assume responsibility for your whole unit; do not push responsibility to chassis makers, tire makers, accessory makers, parts makers, dealers and others. In pushers Make the view for co pilot less cluttered maybe with a mid coach door option. Have some kind of opening window in or near door so one does not have to open the door to talk to someone who knocks. Design windows that open for circulation on top rather than bottom where most of us look out the window.
To design vents anad other plastics to be more UV resistant and drying out that makes it brittle, ie use composite materials instead of the cheap flimsy plastics they currently use.
My comment isn’t about RV design, it’s directed to private RV park owners. We need fewer 55+ RV parks. We need more parks that welcome all ages. At the very least designate a section of the park multi-generational.
NEED MORE 55+ PARKS
RV equipment suppliers, such as Dometic, must provide quality customer support AND must stock parts for recently manufactured products. Needed a part for refrigerator. Went through “certified service center” and even they had a hard time with responses from Dometic. Finally, Dometic authorized the part, but it had to be sent – by slow boat – from Germany. Waited 2 months to receive part. That part fixed part of the problem, but not the whole thing. Now, Dometic says symptoms don’t make sense to them and then they stopped communicating with their own “certified service center.” Shameful customer support.
When our water pump failed after a few months dealer told us it would take 5 to 6 weeks to get it replaced because they had to send it back to the manufacturer before they could authorize a warranty replacement. I ordered the same pump from Amazon for less than what my deductible would have been. I then sent the old pump to the manufacturer and they sent me a new pump so now we have a spare.
QUALITY CONTROL !! Start looking at your finished product and quit sending half finished units into the market, Better customer service and warranties for your product. If you make a quality product, then stand behind it
Absolutely!
Dear <insert manufacturer name> please stop trying to pump out RV’s as quickly as possible to meet demand, at the cost of QUALITY CONTROL. Far too many of your units are being shipped with mostly minor, but some major, QA “misses”. When paying today’s super high prices we deserve a better product. Don’t ruin your name or future by pumping them out with less than stellar QA just because of today’s strong market.
My suggestion would be: when running things such as plumbing or wires through the floor and walls securely seal the hole to prevent entry of mice and other creepy crawlies into the RV.
Well, this should open Pandora’s box! lol
#1 Tank sensors that are accurate.
Will someone PLEASE design an accurate tank sensor? You’ll make a lot of money & make a lot of people very happy.
#2 RV outside fridge cover fasteners. Those twist fasteners are horrible. They break easy & are expensive to replace.
Put the TV in front of the sofa/chairs so you can view it easily.
Don’t waste space putting a TV along the front wall above the cab.
Have an outside TV optional rather than included.
Why not spent $10 more on the air conditioning ductwork so that the air conditioner can actually cool the camper? Our’s came with big gaps in the undersized ducts that let most of the cold air go out into the “attic” rather than out of the vents. The joints weren’t even taped to seal the big gaps and it was so bad that the ceiling and the roof would actually sweat where the gaps were leaking the cold air. I spent 3 days repairing the ductwork in a brand new camper because all the dealer had to say about it was that “they are all that way, it’s just the way they build them”.
Backpacking gear manufactures sometimes have their reps hang out at trailheads and talk directly to their customers. Maybe RV manufactures should send representatives out to campgrounds to seek conversations with people that actually utilize RV’s about what they like or dislike about their rigs.
Don’t build them as fast as you can, build them as well as you can.
Design black water and gray water tank to have flush nozzles close to, and directly pointed at, the fill sensors. You heard it here first!
Manufacturers – your customers are purchasing these RV’s to USE – make sure that you’re building in the quality in components and craftsmanship that will enable your customers to use and enjoy them. And while we’re at it – Dealers – You took the time to sell the RV – to the same customers who want to USE them – don’t make people wait weeks or months to get these units repaired when something does happen (and we all know it will, sooner or later). If a dealer can’t take care of the service on a brand it is selling, maybe the manufacturer should start to think about WHO they have representing THEM in the marketplace.
This one will never happen.
Build quality, not decorating ( that looks like a chain motel room).
Leave out your unsleepable mattress. Let me buy my own quilt instead of a slippery flowered spun oil bedspread. I want a 12v TV so I don’t need a generator. Hanging lighting?
Amen to that! No need for the hard as a rock thin mattress and atrocious bedding. Completely worthless, but looks good in photos, I guess.
Ditch the Dometic stuff and install quality appliances. The race to the bottom in pricing has given us junk appliances from companies with terrible customer service. I would have been happy to pay more for appliances that last.
I’ll second that. Dometic stuff is junk and poor quality. I’d rather pay more to get quality products that work properly and hold up.
Dear “Insert name of Class A makers”
I see it written over and over here and we can’t express it enough. Take time to do quality checks as the bus is being completed. Use quality parts that your company would be proud of. LISTEN and encourage feedback for your engineers. These simple things could put your name at the top of the sells list. Thank you
Exactly, Sylvia!
Dear RV Makers,
First, every top executive in your company needs to spend at least three consecutive weeks in one of your RVs at an RV park. Same with every design engineer. It’s clear that even the high end RV’s were seldom designed by people who have ever been on a extended trip in an RV.
Second, every single unit you complete must be inspected for quality control by an independent company that neither you nor your board have any connection to. Any issues must be repaired and the unit re-inspected before it is shipped. There’s no excuse for the number of instances of shoddy work and unnecessary cost cutting (wire brads instead of screws, tiny screws holding body panels in place, etc.), every space behind a wall panel full of trash (screws, wood and paned shaving, metal shavings from screw hole drillings, wire ends cut off), on a $350,000 RV. Pull the cover off the instrument panel of a Class A bus and look at the wiring… a tangled mess, half the wires not identified.
Well Said!!!!!!
We actually talked to the people who made our rig, told them they need to talk to full timers for better ideas as in design, layout, easier living, especially the kitchen. They were in the process of making another RW and they asked us what we thought and would change, we told them. Come to find out, the actually took one of our suggestions, not a big one, but one. We as RVers make ours the way we want after we get them. Things wish was different, my husband can do some of them.
These are all very valid responses, and I support what everyone has said.
Today after cleaning I say, use screens and windows that are easier to insert and remove screens for cleaning purposes. Secure and mount screens in such a way that they actually keep bugs out. Ours are for ever coming undone and have to have spline redone, as well as huge gaps between screen and window, likely due to having to bend frame to remove and clean inside glass. 🤦♀️
No carpet- anywhere.
Provide a Solar option. Not just a panel for topping off the battery, but a legitimate solar option. This includes placement of controllers and batteries.
1) Mini-splits for air conditioning/ heating
2) 12-volt fridges
3) So many Americans eat meals in front of the tv, why not offer the option of theater seating with fold-away tables, and eliminate standard booths or tables and chairs? Use the space for counter tops and moveable storage. That gives the customer real flexibility.
Better and more specific documentation. I have a motorhome that is “solar ready” but I can find no documentation on what this means. I know there is a connection on the roof, but where does it go from there? What all is included in “solar ready”? Just the wire? I have the electrical schematics from the manufacture but I have no clue how to read them. The generic owner’s manual is so general it could apply to any motorhome and has nothing in it about solar. I suspect that is exactly what the manufactures want just to save money. They have one manual for all their RVs and they can just throw one in and forget it. As a customer, this is awful.
I would suggest that all sales personnel have completed a certified course in order to sell RV’s and present their paperwork to the sellers.
I would also stay away from any RVF that has staples in the construction.
True Story!!. Our Salesperson was “so bad”. Hmmn > Wonder where the Mfr/Dealer Sales Trainer went??
Slow down construction and make a better quality product. For the price of new ones there is no excuse for poor quality needing repairs before one ever uses it.
yep!!
build wiring harnesses using a gig panel with modular connectors, tie wrap the various cables in the harness and get away from the spaghetti mess behind the walls and panels. saves time and money. increases quality.
split heat pumps
add a junction box on the roof with a conduit down to the basement
Increase quality and prices.
Please include a vent fan in the ceiling of fifth wheel front bedrooms. It’s at least 4-5 degrees hotter up there. Second AC has to work extra hard. Seems like a no-brainer to me.
One more mirror or monitor camera to show the front bumper of the RV.
It would be nice to have bigger windows and bigger holding tanks in truck campers. Also, if the dinette is supposed to convert into a bed, make it long enough to fit an adult!
I agree with Rich pointing out the poor Owners Manuals and Operations of systems on virtually all RVs. This is my second motor home that I have no idea on how to set the time and other functions of the in-dash multi-complex radio, CD player, 3-Camera Monitor.
Design-wise, I would like to see better laid out entrance ways that provide space for muddy shoes and a convenient location to hang a wet jacket upon entry after setting up or tearing down in the pouring rain.
How about – if you can sell so many RV’s – why are you not diversifying and guaranteeing those you sell have somewhere to go?
Build RV Parks.
You are overpopulating and the end is coming to your sales as horror stories will abound when people spend their 20k or 300k and can’t get in anywhere. We all know it is coming.
The RV industry MUST vertically integrate to survive. Do it or combine this with Biden’s insane rush to destroy fossil fuel and with nowhere to go will end your business.
By the way – anyone find it strange we never hear or see the RV industry lobbying congress about fossil fuel? No Keystone, hacked Colonial but approved Russian pipelines while our fuel is $1 gallon more today than when Biden took office? Not a peep from RVIA????
I AGREE
Stop making so many different models! Make a limited number of quality models that the builders and techs and parts people can handle. Have the guts to have flagship models that can stand up to tough reviews and build loyalty.
Stop rushing the builds and encouraging sloppy work. Find some way to inspect units and reward the factory teams that delivery high quality.
If the parts distributors can’t do a better job than they are doing now, and this includes manufacturers, then turn the whole thing over to Amazon. When techs literally tell you to go find parts on Amazon (not easy when there are 10,000 models out there) because their distributor will take weeks or months to get it to you, something is very very wrong.
Stop filling the inside of EVERY rig with shiny crap that belongs in a resort hotel. IT’S CAMPING. I don’t want to haul around granite countertops, baby my stainless steel or glass range surfaces so they don’t scratch like hell.
Quality is Job 1!! Learned that Elementary School!!
Make a better quality product, and be a manufacturer that will actually provide good customer service when repairs to your product are needed – especially within warranty. Stop passing this on to the dealers who couldn’t care less.
Yep!!
Stop putting the bed on the driver side! It slides out into the “neighbors yard”! When I’m in bed I don’t want to be at their party!
Please stop putting the bed on the driver side! When I’m in bed I don’t want to be in my neighbors yard!
I would like to see the old floorplan in a travel trailer with the kitchen in the front, with the countertop across width of the trailer under a front window.
The industry needs to employ a man or woman that cooks a lot to design their kitchens. Many fifth wheels have no counter space next to the stove (where do you put hot pans or serve food onto plates)? Some have one large & one small sink – no one can use the small sink! It’s too small for anything! There are a few that have the counter in an L shape where there is only one way in or out!
Create a REAL quality control program that has the authority to make improvements and inspect/test/reject/return those products, as they are being assembled, that fail the standard.
Yep!!