If you are about to buy an RV, you must — MUST — first watch the video below. Michigan attorney Steve Lehto, who has decades of experience with RV lemon law, provides a warning about how most RV buyers today sign away their rights when they purchase their RV. And that can lead to disaster, as you will learn.
When Lehto says they sign away all their rights, that’s what he means — ALL. In the case he discusses here, a couple who bought a defective $99,000 RV from Camping World found that the wordy purchase agreement they signed when buying the RV relieved Camping World of any responsibility to fix it if it proved defective.
According to Lehto, Camping World is far from the only dealer with essentially the same confusing purchase agreement that robs buyers of their rights.
Watch this all the way through. It may make your blood boil. If you plan to buy a new RV, you may conclude from this that you should bring an attorney with you when you sign your purchase contract.
RELATED
##RVT1142
Seems a bit overdramatic, if dealership will allow 3rd party inspectors, get one from https://www.nrvia.org
A third party inspector would not have picked up on this guys problem
Really? Please explain how a 3rd-party inspector would be able to find or predict an engine problem?
Sorry, Mike. I just noticed that our sometimes-overzealous spam filter put your comment into spam for no apparent reason. Have a great day. 😀 –Diane at RVtravel.com
I think you missed the point of the video. A third party inspector can only inspect and report on what he see’s at the time of inspection. He can not and will not guarantee future problems. Yes, it is always a good idea to have anything you’re looking to buy inspected by a 3rd party certified inspector. The video addresses the signing of legal papers/contracts and what rights you signed away when you did sign them. It’s shameful but it’s also on you to read and understand ALL components of a purchase agreement or any other legal contract.
Step one and the most important step is to NEVER even consider purchasing from Camping World. Do even a small amount of research and you will find so many complaints of their sales tactics and service failures that should keep you from giving them your money.
And especially if the name Thor is on the RV and is in the docs. You will be sore if you buy a Thor.
if all that holds true, how in the world can a manufacturer or dealership stay in business. word of mouth and social media would spread the word like wild fire as consumers may stop buying new rv’s. then the question would also apply to used as well in the sales contract, does it? if they’re doing it with new units, why stop there and not with used or are they? this is just sad and greed at the root of it!
As incredible as this seems, I have to think that the contract that the Camping World dealer in this case used was created by and distributed by the lawyers from Camping World’s main offices and that other Camping World dealers are using essentially identical contracts.
Lehto points out how the contract states Camping World cannot be sued for defects of manufacture since they are not the manufacturer. That’s not unusual at all. The contract further defines disputes to be arbitrated within Indiana, the location of the manufacturer. Again, not even remotely unusual.
The engine blew up within two weeks of delivery and in response to the findings of cause, FCA is denying the failure to be the result of defect. The owner has been attempting to assign accountability to anyone willing to accept it for over a year. There’s more to the story but the message is, “read what you sign” and “you can’t sue the arborist because you backed over a tree”……
AND when you want to sit there and READ EVERY WORD of the lengthy contract do NOT let the salesman or finance man push you to “just sign it and read it later” so they can not waste THEIR TIME letting you read it! When we bought our MH at a dealer they were APPALLED that I would attempt to read it all….but I did! So they would not change a word….but at least I knew what I was signing. DO IT.
I drive them nuts reading every single document end-to-end. I can see them just squirming wanting to be doing something else. They will interrupt with “Oh, that’s just boilerplate everybody needs to sign.” Or, “That wording is mandated by law.”
Yeah….right.
I learned early on from reading articles that I would never buy a new RV. After reading RVTravel for a while I am convinced that I will never buy one, new or used, from a dealer. I’m not saying there are no decent dealers out there, I just won’t risk that much money with an industry that has such a bad reputation. Thank you RVTravel. That reputation seems to fit the characteristics of our local dealers.
Buy a used cargo van, ambulance, or used moving truck and install just what you have to have.
This information should be made mandatory knowledge for all potential RV dealer purchases. I have bought a new unit twice in last 5 years. I went back and examined the purchase agreement that I signed and both cases the legal restrictions indicated in the video are there. Fortunately, I didn’t have any issues that the dealer was unwilling to repair.
However, upon reflecting on what I now know I would not sign that agreement. Therefore, I probably would not be buying a new or used unit from a dealer ever again!!!!!
Alarming and scary!!!!
Exactly why it is better to cherry pick a unit from a private seller where you can inspect the unit yourself or get someone who is knowledgeable about RV inspections to do it.Any dealer that sells krapola on wheels should be exiled to the jungles of Borneo.
Read your contract. Buy a reputable brand. My story: I drove from western Washington to Montana and purchased a Brinkley 5th wheel and both my dealer and the manufacturer have been great so far. Have I had issues? Sure, every new RV has issues (so did my brand new truck), but they have been repaired with no questions asked. Brinkley even allows mobile techs and reimburses you for any repairs. I had an issue with the 5th wheel pinbox being installed incorrectly and took it to a local repair shop (NOT an RV dealer) and I was reimbursed 100%. Not all manufactures are crooks. I am not affiliated with either my dealer or Brinkley, but just a happy customer.
Another reason our 2006 Tiffin Phaeton is our LAST RV. Now all we have to do is keep on fixing whatever breaks from use or age.
They are as bad as car dealers sales people, once out the door it’s not their problem. Read everything before you sign anything.
Thank you, RV Travel! I do tell ALL potential RV buyers that I meet to NEVER buy an RV from these crooks. Unfortunately, I do not meet very many potential buyers. 🙁
Purchase (seller’s) contracts are for the benefit of the SELLER. Nothing new here. What has changed is the contract wording, which has made Steve’s job harder (and buyer risk greater). Still; there is far greater risk in private party, than dealer transactions (try getting a warranty claim from a private seller).
Regardless if you’re buying new or used from a dealer, or used from a private party, DO YOUR RESEARCH. “Buyer Beware”.
Kinda exaggerated, don’t you think? AND the couple in question are having a vehicle issue with FCA, not an RV issue at all. One year at an auto repair facility is a bit much tho. I don’t think we have the whole story here.
You must have missed the part of the roof and vent leaks as well as other problems. That is the RV part. FCA’s part was just the topping on the cake.
Just don’t buy until the next huge downturn in RV sales, when they are BEGGING you to buy.
Then, draw up YOUR sales contract the way you want it, and have THEM sign it.
If they won’t do it, walk out and go to another. They will be drooling to get their hands on $50-$100,000 (average).
What strikes me from some of the comments is how conditioned and willing Americans have become to abuse by corporations and their lawyers. The attitude is, you signed it, your problem.
There’s not a wits thought given to doing what is just and responsible, a desire to satisfy the customer, or to take any responsibility for the very product they purport to be in business for in the first place! The only consideration is getting the cash out of buyers pocket and send them on their way. The business is relieving people of hard earned cash, not RVs.
Maybe if we learned to hang together better as buyers, rather than letting the sharks have their way, we’d be far better off.
Thank you a thousand times for taking the time to make and publish this video. We have a 2005 class C that has been wonderful for us and we have kept it up. Last year we had some major problems which have caused me to wonder should we downsize to a class b. This video saved me a lot of time on the front end of any purchases as well as members of my family. I could see me shopping and shopping basically for months to find exactly what we are looking for, selling our class c or trading in. Arranging financing or closing investments to pay for the new Rv, than having this kind of contract pulled out. At first we would be shocked then most likely would not purchase the vehicle.
Sherry, you make an excellent point and if the potential dealer will give you copies of the blank contracts you would be expected to sign in advance, that can help a lot. I did that on a long-distance buy one time as I did NOT want to drive 1300 miles only to have the contract be the problem. In this case, the small privately held dealer was more than happy to do that AND negotiate the terms! I have no doubt that CW or other large corporate dealers would never do that.
So where’s all the government consumer protection in this crap. These contracts should not be allowed. Oh wait, big business owns all the politicians so they can get away with what they want. This could trickle down to everything you purchase from RV’s to lawn mowers. Then companys will not be responsable to fix or replace anything and should you be injured by a defect, tough. We’re going in the toilet rapidly just waiting for the flush.
Already has trickled down. Pretty much every warranty has a clause saying “arbitration” and you giving up your right to sue.
Camping World…again. Common sense is not a GI thing.
I’ve seen the video before and I think Steve is great. Just re-inforces the adage of “buyer beware”.
I wonder what a CW salesman would do if you told him that before you sign for the purchase of ABC Trailer you are going to take the contract to your lawyer for review?
Wikipedia:
RV. Noun, verb, adjective
“Are-vee”
The biggest pos you will spend the most amount of money on
LOL! Sad, but true!
Another thing, not mentioned, is just about anything you buy now has an arbitration clause buried in the fine print. The consumer will NEVER get relief or win in arbitration. It’s similar to what a lawyer friend once told me, “NEVER enter a class-action lawsuit, it’s simply a lawsuit designed by lawyers, SOLELY for the benefit of the lawyers!”
Ah yes, mass tort lawyers are the problem. Unfortunately, they are often the only remedy available in our system which lets corporations run wild. A lot of foolish people believe this ‘NEVER’ advice and it’s sad.
Ask the many people who got a good percentage of their money back after the Worldcom debacle whether that would have happened without class-action lawsuits.
WOW,, thanks for providing this.
These contracts are born of problems oft times created by buyers or consumers. When a business gets sued they turn to their attorney for protection – ah, another clause has been added. then another and another and another – businesses pay attorneys to protect them just as consumers do after they have been wronged or perceive it to be so. Additionally we have an over-abundance of attorneys looking to sue someone. One of the worst things to ever happen to consumer protections are national class action suits and local and national advertising by attorneys – now like used car salesman in excess! This video is great advice. Read it – and read it again! Understand it or don’t sign it!
Many years ago I read that the USA is about 5% of the world’s population and we have about 50% of the world’s attorneys. That is why we have these problems. Every time an attorney sues someone, he makes a job for another attorney. Besides their other contributions to society, attorneys may become an important source of protein.
Hi, Dave. Your last sentence got a chuckle out of me. I was a legal secretary/paralegal to a wonderful attorney for 45 years. I guess he wasn’t a typical attorney, or what folks might consider as a typical attorney. He was a considerate, caring, very generous human being. He wasn’t in it for the money, since he charged much less than other attorneys did for the same work (mostly family law). And he was an excellent attorney. Anyway…protein.🤣 Have a good evening/night. 😀 –Diane at RVtravel.com
Everybody hates attorneys…until they need one.
“These contracts are born of problems oft times created by buyers or consumers.”
I think they are being born out of the knowledge of the entire RV industry, from manufacturers through dealers, that what they are producing/selling is junk prone to fail and fail big enough so that they don’t want to take legal liability to correct the problems of their own making.
Go back a few decades. WAY better warranty periods & no pages-long gibberish contracts to sign that abuse the consumer. Those two things go hand in hand. I cut my warranty when I know I’m producing junk that will cost me too much to fix under warranty AND I protect myself from all damages.
So what happens if instead of actually signing you were to write I am not signing this on those lines? Maybe sales crew wouldn’t catch that in the pile of paperwork they have you sign???? Anyone tried that?
I have personally taken contracts of this nature over night for review and returned with a line-outs through aspects which proved to be over the top beneficial for the dealer/seller. I then scanned and saved as a pdf prior to returning for completing the purchase. The dealer/seller accepted it without ever noting the line-outs. The dealer/seller only looked through the contract to insure all initials and signatures were in place. I’m not sure how this would have held up in court had a problem arose where he contract would have come into play. But as far as I’m concerned, “Dealer Be ware” not buyer.
A couple of issue. Steve Letho is an Automobile Lemon Law Attorney. He gave up RV Lemon Law because of no attorney cost shift provisions.
Also, providing a vehicle that does not function is a violation of the Federal Magnuson Moss Warranty act and you can Reject Acceptance under the Uniform Commercial Code, which all states have enacted with slight variations. Ron Burge has had good results with these laws and is currently practicing with referrals to other lawyer for other states.