By Chuck Woodbury
RVTRAVEL.COM
What does this scene have to do with RVing? At first glance, you may say nothing. But I think it does, or at least it can.
I took this photo of a suburban housing development from my window seat on a Boeing 737 as the plane let down into Philadelphia. The thought struck me that 40 years ago, the same area was probably rural, a few farmhouses here and there, but mostly wide-open, unoccupied farmland. People who lived there lived in the country where life moved slow, neighbors were few, and when they gathered it was at the corner cafe, where everybody knew their name and their dogs, too.
Bye and bye, the local chamber of commerce decided to promote the area as a fine place to live, away from the problems of crowded, decaying cities. “Live in your dream home where the air is pure, where there’s room to breathe, and where everybody knows your name.”
And, one by one, people came. They loved it — the freedom, the peace, the clean air. “We never locked our door,” one woman once told me who lived in such a place in rural Missouri. “We never worried about anyone stealing anything. Sometimes we’d come home and somebody would have left a homemade pie in the refrigerator.”
FAST FORWARD 15 YEARS. A home developer arrives and begins building affordable tract homes. He builds 60 at first, which sell quickly, then 60 more. A freeway is being built nearby; residents can live in the country and easily commute to the city to work. And then another developer arrives, and another. The general store and corner cafe give way to 7-Elevens, McDonald’s and Taco Bells. Walmart arrives in the next town and decimates Main Street. The freeway is gridlocked half the day.
Before long, “rural” becomes “suburb.”
I watched this happen growing up 20 miles from Los Angeles, moving there as a child to a town of 4,000, leaving 16 years later when the population had swelled to 60,000. The orange groves were gone. The hillside where my buddies and I played became luxury view homes.
Could the local chamber in Pennsylvania continue today to promote country living as it had before? “Live in your dream home where the air is pure, where there’s room to breathe, and where everybody knows your name.”
HOW THIS RELATES TO RVing
And here is where I see a similarity with RVing: The RV industry continues to promote the freedom of RVing, even though another half-million RVs are unleashed onto the highways and into campgrounds every year. Years ago it was absolutely appropriate to promote RVing as a way to “go where you want when you want.” I know, I did it! I didn’t make a single camping reservation for more than 25 years.
The RV industry continues to promote the “freedom” idea, but it’s just not true, any more than living in the subdivision above is still akin to living in the “peaceful countryside.”
The population of the Unites States when I began RVing in the early 1980s was about 230 million. Since then it has grown to about 330 million. Those additional 100 million people are now sharing our public lands — our National and State Parks, National Forests, even the wide-open spaces of the desert Southwest. Anyone with a modern RV can easily live full-time in it (that wasn’t easy to do even 25 years ago), and increasingly that’s what they are doing; these people fill RV parks once available to drop-in overnighters.
Is it any wonder it’s harder now to find a place to stay on the spur of the moment?
In 1982, the year I bought my first RV, a total of 140,000 RVs were shipped to dealers. Last year, 504,000 were shipped. In all those years, I’d guess the number of available campsites has barely increased.
MY POINT IS THAT RVing TODAY is not the same as it was a few decades ago. It can still be wonderful, just as living in a crowded suburb can be wonderful. But the lifestyle in both cases is far from what it was before the crowds arrived.
Yet the industry does nothing of significance to address where to stay with the RVs that it continues to spew out in record numbers. Today, campground and RV park reservations are often required – often months, even years in advance – to secure a place to stay in popular tourist areas. A recent RVtravel.com poll showed that two-thirds of the more than 2,000 readers who responded make reservations all the time or most of the time rather than just “winging it.”
Here’s something the RV and camping industry associations could do, but don’t: Many small town entrepreneurs propose building RV parks in their communities. But misinformed locals complain to the city council: “We don’t want those lowlifes here!” And so the council denies the building permit. Why doesn’t the RV industry dispatch a skilled representative to the city council meeting to sell them on the benefits of having the park? They don’t! They are too shortsighted.
My point is that RVing has changed. How and where we use RVs has changed. We need to address those changes or our RV lifestyles will become as clogged as our suburbs and freeways. If change does not come, RVing will become increasingly challenging and eventually not worth the effort. At that point, RVers will sell their rigs and buy condos. Some RVtravel.com readers report they already have.
I work in residential construction, unfortunately, just west of Philly. Most of the farmland or woodland in this area is going to or already has been developed. And one thing that always bothered me, where do they get the names of these communities from. Springfield, Buckingham Preserve, Linwoods, Grist Mill Farms. Where is the field? Where is the preserve? Where are the woods? Where are the farms? I guess the developers figure if they make it sound like you are living in the country, it’s an easier sell.
We first started RVing together in 2005. We both grew up camping. Since 2005, we have seen a dramatic change in the camping industry. Prices have skyrocketed to the point that we no longer go to some of what were our favorite campgrounds. We have to book months in advance. And on Holidays, why would I spend much more than a regular weekend to be in an over crowded, loud campground? When we started RVing, we would always see campground security driving around at just about everywhere we went. Usually, they would stop and chat with us, make you feel like you are their guests. Now, if you see them at all, it’s hard to even get a friendly “hello”. We are no longer their guests, We are just customers.
Agree that the RV industry needs to direct significant effort to promote more and less crowded RV Parks, especially in the southern states. Finding a decent campground for short stays, or a place to park overnight, while travelling is my biggest concern as an active RV’er. Safe, quiet, lots of room to set up, clean, economical sites, are very hard to find during peak season as they are already reserved weeks and months ahead. Until this gets resolved, RV’s need help to locate alternate safe sites they can access during these peak seasons. Many times I have wanted to stay in an area to visit but can’t as I cannot find a place to stay! I have stayed in many truck stops but the truckers need these sites themselves, and their far from preferred by RV’ers! The short and long term solution is attainable but the industry needs to work with local businesses & government toward finding and implementing it!
Mother Nature will eventually take care of the problems caused by more and more people consuming more and more stuff, creating more and more pollution and waste. She may be implementing corrective action sooner rather than later based on the recent scientific analyses of the effects of climate change.
Like you Chuck, when we started full time back in 2000 we never made a reservation and there were plenty of RV sites to pick from. Now, those same parks are homes for many who can’t afford to travel anymore due to the costs of upkeep of the RV, the price of fuel, or the fact that they get a better deal if they stay put in one place. Sad but true! So now, we are not only dealing with the slogan “get your RV now and hit the open road” but with the amount of permanent sites that aren’t moving anytime soon. We have become our own worst enemy!
Well done Chuck, as always. The parallel you draw with the RV Industry is spot on but only to those whose vision is beyond profits. When profits are the primary driving force, anyone that presents the Truth (as you so often do in your essays) is always ignored, overlooked or at best, dismissed as an odd-ball who doesn’t share the same “vision”. But as sure as the peace and quiet of the neighborhood you describe in your essay disappeared, the serenity and freedom people seek from RVing will disappear. But it will not disappear quickly. Rather, it will disappear at glacial speed and most people either won’t notice the change, or they will accept it as normal because they “live in the moment”. Or, they’ll view your honesty and warnings as being negative and you’ll be viewed as a trouble maker. The RV Industry seems to be living in the moment, realizing terrific sales from people whose busy lives leave them wanting more; not more material things but more experiences of freedom; of connecting with each other and with nature. RV’s that seem to constantly have problems, frequent trips back to the Dealer that may take months to repair and never-ending payments on a depreciating “Asset” (sic) are all manifestations of our Industry’s ills. Perhaps like you, unless and until a Leader shows up in this Industry and takes significant meaningful action, I see a proverbial train wreck coming in the RV Industry. It will happen in slow-motion and will be almost unnoticed by most until it is too late. Remember General Motors? They were too big to fail. Wrong. I believe that some of today’s Big Players in the RV Industry are already seeing the impending disaster and they are figuring their own exit strategy. Will we hear the honest truth about what they see and how they will work to repair decades of profit chasing by improving quality? Or, will they quietly figure out their personal Exit Strategy to leave with a bundle of cash, kick the can down the Corporate Road and leave stock holders wondering “what the….”? Thank you for being a shining example of integrity and honesty Leading your Team at RV Travel. While you’re not constantly beating the drum of “Ice Cream and Lollipops”, you are not being negative. I believe it’s not too late for an Industry Leader (visionary) to appear. But Leaders are in the lonely position of “Leading”. If and when that Leader in the RV Industry shows up, they will be rewarded by the Consumer; leaving their competition wondering what happened. That too will not happen quickly, but it will happen. That’s my view from 30,000 feet. Keep up the great work!
Thanks for your good points, Alan — from TheRVShowUSA.com. You think pretty good even at a high altitude (e.g., 30,000 feet, just to be clear). 😀 —Diane at RVtravel.com.
Chuck, I agree with you. However, tent campers most likely thought the same thing when “modern” RV’s came on the market. When I go camping, I want to find water, sewer, and electric hook-up in a campground near the area I want to visit. I like to get a pull-thru because backing up is still hard for me. I have been camping for more that 25 years and made reservations without thinking otherwise. If a new campground was built and only offered WSE, they would not attract “modern” campers. I enjoy the outdoors, hiking, fishing, biking, new sights and just relaxing. Having WiFi or cable is nice, but not necessary. The idea of camping is to get dirty and have fun. Not to connect to the electronics of today and stay clean, you can do that at home. We need more decent, clean, and friendly campgrounds near our most popular vacation areas, but the more modern they are the more difficult it is to find a camping spot that isn’t a shoe box. I don’t know the answer, but when I getaway I want to do it in my RV and relax.
I was hoping to try RVing out. If I could get my better half to check it out. He’s almost convinced. But I’m starting to have second thoughts, because it seems to me there’s barely any places to really go and park. Watching RV’ers on YouTube complain about having to make early plans just to get in RV Parks or just no where to park. Seems to be an issue. My friend and the people in the community of the little country town she lives in. Was talking about trying to generate money flowing in their town. I mentioned why don’t they opened an RV Park and have certain things in the town that would benefit also the young people. If the RV Industry don’t start making other arrangements on these RV issues there won’t be anywhere to go, because these new houses that are going up in the countries will push RV out the way. No place to go no RV sales….
Very good comparison as always, Chuck. Unfortunately the “RV sales industry” could care less about the “RV User industry”. They just figure if we get tired of the “care free lifestyle” we will just come back to sell our used RV to them and fill those Used RV lots….more profit for them and loss for us. They forget that a glut of used RVs will mean NO SALES to new wanna be RVers.
Maybe there should be an RV Users Association to foster new campgrounds with the local Chamber of Commerce and City Councils. We spend a lot of our RV life monies as tourists to the towns an cities around the USA. When you visit places and sign the guest book also put “Another RV family” along with your name and city,state. That is the only way non-RV people will see the impact of our visits.
So glad we can still live the life we chose in our RV before the “RV life bubble” starting filling up.
This was an excellent article for those of us (dinosaurs) who appreciate nostalgia. The reality of western civilization though, is that supply and demand controls everything. How we deal with it is determined by our individual preferences and emotions. Collectively, we will roll with the flow. It’s the path of least resistance, thus more comfortable.
What to say? Do I add my voice to the ongoing lament about changing times, changing lifestyles, changing values? My husband and I are both retired. Three years ago we sold our home, gifted the collections of stuff to our children, bought a 5th wheel, and joined the ranks of RV full timers. Forty-seven years ago we camped in a tent with two toddlers and a baby. Over the years we’ve camped in a pop up, a pull behind trailer, a motor coach, and occasionally another tent. The children and grandchildren love exploring and camping. We no longer camp. Our goal is now travel, slowly, doing what we want and when we want, and laying in our own bed every night. To be sure, scheduling and reservations can be a time consuming headache. Trying to visit sites when schools are in summer recess is next to impossible. But do I think it is the responsibility of RV manufacturers to advocate for more and better campgrounds? I do not. Yes, it would be nice if they did since collectively their voice should be loud. Yes, it would be nice if manufacturers were a bit less profit driven and shared their wealth with communities to improve campgrounds. But their responsibility? No. I think the responsibility lies with the camper, the traveler, those who purchase the tents, trailers, and motor coaches. It is easy to lament about the change we wish to see and don’t, harder to be that change. I think life sometimes gets in the way of living. But if we want to live a certain way then it is our responsibility to make that happen. Just sayin’…..
Good article, RVing, isnt’t what it used to be. Not only is the accommodation infrastructure not keeping up, established RV parks are going downhill fast, we had a corporate sales person from a well known camping time share/member organization tell us flat out “Were not in the Camping business” there goal is to sell leases to the ageing population and it shows! Iv’e sent E-Mails to the main office complaining about the decline in our favorite park and they just forward them to the park manager and nothing gets done, they throw crumbs at the issues but it’s plain to see their investment strategy is exactly what the salesman said!
It leaves me wondering when I look at the number of RV storage lots just around Calgary, Alberta and RV owners are forced to store due to our short RV season (May-Oct). Even when the season opens so many just sit there not used. I am thankful for this especially the big units trying to find a pull through site in Alberta/BC. I elected in having a small “B” class unit for the two us traveling into western BC and Alberta Provincial/National Parks where the sites are we’ll spaced, treed and on the smaller size. The sites are becoming more electrified to address the demand. My high end PleasureWay is self contained with solar and generator.( a four day stay then one needs to dump and fill up) then onto a new location with our fun to drive unit with easy parking etc. enjoying the great outdoors.
That’s the way we went too Ford. Got a Winnebago Travato for our first RV and equipped it with plenty of solar. We keep the extras down to just the essentials for having fun. Allows us to quickly relocate to anywhere that strikes our fancy while enjoying a solid 17 mpg on the road. It just amazes us that such luxury, mobility and our own form of energy independence from normal campgrounds is ours now. We’re having a ball!
Agree with you and just about all those that made comments. Many RV park have so many RV that are permanent residents (mostly construction workers), or park homes (very small moble home) are set up, so there are few sites left for the RV traveler. Many of the more economical RV parks, the RV parked there permanently are old, run down there is junk around the RV. The park has the look of a bad trailer park, not exactly a place you want to stay in, there aren’t a lot of options.
As for your concern over campsites… while I appreciate your attempts to raise the warning flags, I must admit it is getting somewhat tiresome. Fortunately we live in at least a somewhat still capitalistic society. Supply and demand will work in this situation too. As the demand increases for camping spaces two things are going to happen, initially costs will go up (think golf courses in the 90’s), then, as those “greedy” capitalists see money opportunities (I prefer to think of them as smart investors), supply will begin to increase. It just takes time, will it happen soon enough for us to enjoy it, maybe not. Will it eventually result in oversupply, you bet – think of golf courses now.
All that said, I think the concern is a bit over blown. You have to remember that Millenials are the a big part of the current RV rage. However, a couple things about Millenials, they lose interest fast, and far too many can’t tell the difference between a Phillips and flat head screwdriver. When they have to rely on repair men to fix everything that is always breaking on these RV’s you can bet they will just as quickly move on to the next thing (think of the lunacy of tiny houses). I’m betting we are at the peak of RV buying. In the very near future as all these Millenials go off the road and stop posting on YouTube about their amazing RV life, things will change.
The other part of the RV rage is all the boomers that are retiring. One thing to remember about retirees though, THEY DIE! After this initial glut comes through of boomers, it will level off because the geezers (like us) are kicking the bucket. Just like everything the boomers did it caused a big wave, flattened out, and then left a wake of financial disaster behind it. Yep, just wait until the kids are left with a big, hulking RV, they can’t use and have no where to store. Available boomer RVs will begin to skyrocket just about the time Millenials completely lose interest – market glut!! Yippee, our very own personal RV recession. LOL
Well said Dave.
Spot on Dave! Had to laugh when I read the “THEY DIE!” comment. So true though. And having two millenial kids myself, I can relate to the short attention spans of this group. As many of us geezers kick the bucket, a lot of those relics they’ve been living in will be towed off to the scrap heap. Hopefully some campground owners will see the profit potential in today’s higher nightly rates and decide to once again use those sights for travellers.
Chuck, I agree with the writer who said that the endless diatribe about number of campsites for RVs is getting very old. Likewise with the railing against the manufacturers for their poor quality. Endless complaining never did bring about change……it just made it hard to be around you. You have so much energy, and dedication to us RVers. On quality: TEACH BUYERS how to find quality. What brands deserve to be avoided (and which should they seek out)? Teach them how to educate themselves, ask the right questions, do their own inspections. One direction I have not seen any comments about is buying proven quality, even if it is 10-25 years old, but well loved. That was my answer when I bought a three and a half decade old Holiday Rambler class A. HR did have a stellar reputation, at least in the 80s and 90s. All aluminum, my rig has never leaked a drop, and four-wheel disc brakes tells you something about their pride of workmanship and safety goals. How about a nice 25-year-old Beaver pusher? Or a Grand Villa pusher for only $20k. If they were well cared for, the few issues are history now.
We purchased our first RV in 1978, forty years ago. Like everything else in our lives, RV and camping have changed over those 40 years. I still think it is the best way to spend quality time with your family.
The premise of your essay is very real, but I’m not sure the problem lies on the desk of RV industry executives. We build RVs for personal enjoyment, and for the most part they meet that objective.
As those sprawling meadows became clustered housing developments people bought more cars so they could travel more. Entrepreneurs saw an opportunity here – so they went out and built motels, hotels and eventually luxury resorts.
We didn’t blame GM, Ford and Chrysler for not having enough housing or enough hotels to stay in when they started using their new cars, so why should we blame the “RV industry” for not meeting the demands of today’s RVers.
That demand should be filled by new entrepreneurs who can see the opportunity that the outdoor hospitality industry offers, just as the indoor hospitality industry responded to the increasing number of cars and the desire for people to travel more and who needed someplace to stay overnight.
There may be a place for the RV industry to be the facilitator of such discussions, but they should not be engaged in the solution to this problem. The RV industry should focus on their own challenges (more and better technicians, product quality, customer service, better warranty coverage, etc.) and let the marketplace determine how to respond to the need we have for more campgrounds and RV resorts.
Personally, I think the hotel industry is missing an opportunity to expand their brands to include campgrounds and overnight accommodations for overnight travelers. They already know how to build infrastructure, they already have incredible data gathering capabilities, and their own marketing strategy has most hotel chains building everything from a basic quick stay overnight hotel with very few amenities to luxury resorts that cater to every desire of their customers.
RVers are just another segment in todays mobile world where people want to travel and enjoy life away from their traditional home environment. The RV industry has responded to that with a large selection of products from $6,000 pop-up campers to $2,000,000 bus conversions.
It should not be the RV industry’s responsibility to find or force somebody else to build the accommodations these new RVers will need well into the future.
As you have stated many times Chuck, this is an OPPORTUNITY, and our country was built by people who saw a NEED, recognized the OPPORTUNITY, and SOLVED the problem. That is how THIS problem will be solved.
We built highways and hotels when people started traveling in cars, we will do the same thing as more people start traveling in RVs . . . I hope!
I couldn’t agree with Mike more! 150% accurate.
We ARE just customers. So many places we’ve stayed have terrible customer service. Their front desk staff are often cold, disinterested workers, who project an air of total negativity.
We, too, have shyed away from traveling south because we cannot get reservations, cannot have any sort of spontaneity to our travel and have had great difficulty finding overnight spots that are safe and obtainable as we travel. It is no wonder that we noticed the Flying J parking lot FULL of RVs at 3 pm! They are “wintering” there, not overnighting! We spoke with one couple, whom we had seen at a campground just north of there the week before. When we inquired as to where they had been since we’d seen them last, their reply was “here”. Here? In the Flying J? Yes. They overnight there, cooking their suppers and spending their evenings there. They then left each morning to go to parks/beaches etc. but had learned to return by 2 pm to ensure that they had a spot for the night. Seems the whole parking lot was full of similar “campers”. They even had their “usual” spots!!!!!
This is NOT how to snowbird but it seemed that they felt it was their only way to actually be in the warmer temps despite not being able to secure any reservations.
Something needs to be done!
LittleLeftie, a sea of campers at Flying J tells me they are BOONDOCKING. So why aren’t they making the effort to do the same on public land which is plentiful here in the West. I circulate between the low desert in winter and the high country for summer and fall here in AZ. I haven’t needed a parking lot because there are many alternatives if you know how to boondock.
Totally agree with your observation but I’m not sure how the Manufacturers in this situation could ever help. I guess they could continue driving prices up until no one can afford them? That would mean less RV’s constructed, less labor required, less materials needed. That’s the trickle down effect. Their business models are about “Selling” and nothing more.
What do we need? We need more entrepreneurs willing to gamble (albeit a small gable today) to purchase land, install infrastructure and hire labor to run the parks. And to do that, the average person simply doesn’t have an average $3 million dollars laying around in order to start one. AND for those that RV full time, they don’t usually want another JOB. The banking system makes it next to impossible to borrow that kind of money. Land prices are thru the roof. Construction is tight and costs are significant. Therein lies the conundrum.
And what happens when everyone decides RVing is just too much of a hassle? Parks then “like” the fulltimers as steady income (regardless if it means at a discount).
I’ve watched your articles (and venting) for some time (BTW, I appreciate what you do). I’ve tried to build business models for cheap overnight sites. It’s very difficult to come up with a plan that achieves any kind of profit on investment.
I’ve also looked at RV Campgrounds that the average family can afford including gravel roads and little amenities. Same thing.
Then, I’ve looked at resorts. You best come up with $5 million. Just the interest alone kills any potential profit.
Finally, I’ve looked at inexpensive Full Time/Retirement Communities. There is potential here but again, where does one get $500-1,000,000 to set this up? That would relieve some of the stress on vacation parks.
It’s a said situation. Good for those who bought and set up 20-50 years ago. They are making a killing. But for a new entrepreneur, its an extreme risk. Any hiccup of the slightest and its bankruptcy court. it’s too tight.
I’m all ears if anyone has a suggestion. I can build a business plan, but the land acquisition and infrastructure costs kill it. What’s a person to do?
Maybe I’ll win tonight’s $1,000,000,000 Mega lottery. Then, I can happily take on the risk with no problem.
One more point for consideration…As residential market prices and interest rates continue to climb, expect more and more “Millennial’s” with and without kids to be forced to this lifestyle.
And as more and more “Baby Boomers” come to their sense’s to get away from high taxes, living trapped like a rat in a cage, and have issues paying their medical bills or prescriptions, expect more to expand in this direction.
Pretty soon, it will cost as much to live in an RV as it does to live in a sticks and brick house and there will still be nowhere to say. I’m already seeing rates of $80 a night (with tax). That’s $2,400 a month. Even $40 a night (with tax) is $1,200 a month. It’s no wonder that individuals are electing full timing on a monthly rate. Even those are reaching $500-800 a month. Many are now opting to boondock in those out of the way locations for nearly nothing. It’s damaging the areas once considered pristine destinations.
Something has (or will) eventually give…
TravelingMan, On cheap overnight spaces, don’t assume you have to buy land. Look at all the extra space in Cabella’s parking lots plus casinos, small town city parks, etc. Put in a half dozen pedestals in any of those and you have now added some inexpensive overnight stops with electricity to accommodate those RVers who need an electric hookup to run their all-electric residential fridges, air conditioning, CPAP machines, etc. There is no need to establish new locations. Look at how Tesla has put in charging stations in Target parking lots. Same idea. . .
Chuck, The Tesla charging station analogy is a good one. There are tons of half empty parking lots out there….somebody just has to see the opportunity. I have two thoughts on the use of existing parking lots.
1) In Flagstaff, AZ the city has passed an ordinance outlawing an overnight stay in ANY parking lot or city street. I can’t say I blame them, in that Walmart has usually not put any limits on number of nights you can stay. Hence, you end up with a little city that is not managed and is usually a bit unsightly.
2) If some chain wanted to try the parking lot idea, I beliieve it should aim for RVers that just want to stay a night or two. Putting limit on stay length should eliminate the need for much infrastructure, ie. sewer, water. And really, what percentage of RVs staying a couple of nights really NEED hookups of any kind?
Hi Chuck, 35 years ago developed campgrounds and their owners, government or otherwise, were looking to the future of their sites filled with campers, on vacation or just out for the weekend. Well that future has arrived. Lets face it, owners are in it for the money, plain and simple. They don’t care about anything except keeping their sites filled. Most campgrounds we visit, state owned or otherwise, know the place has been paid for two or three times over and know it’s all profit for the owners. It’s easy to tell which places have no mortgage and are pure profit, by their age and visible lack of maintenance and overall poor site quality. Not a dime has been spent on these places in decades. If there is any money spent, the cost to stay has doubled. Sorry I digress for a moment, but look at the KOA franchise and their smoke and mirrors dream of three different levels of the “camping experience”. Their lowest level, “Journey”, cost anywhere from 55 to 65 bucks a night, for a site where I can watch my neighbour do their dishes from inside my own rig. What’s the solution to this? I don’t know, but as long as folks are willing to succumb to paying outrageous fees for crappy sites and absolutely require “free WiFi” to book their next dumpy spot, nothing will change. It’s like you said, it’s all about the here and now and the money that goes with it. On a side note, what’s happening with your “pay as you go” overnight parking idea? Like most of my fellow travelers, It would be great to have more quiet and dedicated spots, for those who need to stop, just for the night, rather than shoe-horning in to an overpriced mud hole.
I would suspect that those “over-nighters” you describe will want to find a convenient place along the freeway so as to not interrupt their travel itinerary too much.
I’ve tried a ground lease program for this to see if I could reduce costs. It doesn’t work. They are not making any more land. Most who own it are asking ridiculous prices (because they know investors will buy it for even more future gains). Then, it’s getting harder and harder to get past EPA regulatory concerns. If one installs septic, holding tanks or fields, they have to undergo potentially months of forms, inspections and fees. Even connecting to City systems can be near impossible in many jurisdictions.
I suppose that if one purchases land in the desert, they might get a reasonable price. But by the time they bring in infrastructure and utilities, they are back up there again and have to charge the outrageous fees.
Then (at least for now) there is another risk that has been added…Fuel prices. In the current environment, there is a risk that OPEC will be causing a disruption to cheaper fuel. Anyone even thinking about opening a new park has to weigh this. If fuel gets to $150-200 a barrel, how will that impact fuel prices? $5-8 a gallon could be on the horizon. How many will travel then? Even Tow Vehicle prices have reached the ridiculous level. How many can afford to purchase a TV that can haul their load.
And insurance isn’t going down. When someone twists an ankle on a gravel road, it’s automatically the fault of the park. Rates are thru the roof.
Labor is the one bright spot. There are many willing to “work-camp” to help offset costs. But even now, this may not be a benefit if the park owners cannot justify the cost of a “space” versus getting a paying customer.
The future isn’t set in stone but when considering a new RV park, at least at this time, there is far more risk than many can afford to take (even if they can find the monetary resources). I’m looking for that “break” but can’t see one any time soon.
There has to be a way to make this reasonably profitable for the risk taker and less expensive for the camper…
See other comments below.
Chuck,
I agree with your comments about how RVing has changed since you started on this journey. However keep in mind that EVERYTHING has changed from how I buy a house down to how I get my daily news (comparison to show the most complicated task down to the simplest).
When I started RVing 10-years ago I used a paper map (still keep one as a back up) now I speak into my GPS. Now when I head out for a weekend, week or month I make reservations otherwise I will spend my fun time sleeping in a Walmart Parking lot.
My second point is that the RV industry needs to focus on the quality of the units not where we park them. We don’t chastise Ford or Chevy because the roads are full we look to local municipalities to ease the commute. We should provide a positive selling story to local governments about the positive benefits of building and maintaining an RV park and at the same time providing this same selling story to any entrepreneur that will listen.
Good article. My wife and I get away from the deep freeze a couple of months in the winter. Don’t know if I could do it “full time”. Which brings me to my point. Supply and demand have been mentioned many times but more doing RVing full time have contributed to a great extent to this problem. There isnt the “churn” in rv spaces and it will shrink year after year. I believe it may be inevitable that the industry will shrink. Chuck also points out the NIMBY (not in my back yard) effect for developing more sites. It will be interesting to see the evolution of the industry.
Hi Chuck. You’re right. Boomers are still retiring and hitting the road in record numbers. Until they won’t be. Somewhere, some bean counter is saying to ya, ‘yeah, i agree, but 20 years from now when all you people are dead or no longer have a driver license, what do we do with all the campsite spaces we’ve created for you? Many will be sitting vacant because despite the rush to the road, people like my son won’t be on it for another 20 years, and the population drop will have solved the problem.
I agree that there’s a regrettable lack of foresight on the part of RV manufacturers as to where people can or will use their products. In California, we grew up tent camping, then I bought a cab-over camper for my pickup, then in 2011 we bought a class A motorhome. On our last trip in the spring of this year, 2 months, 3000 miles 8 western states, we didn’t have too much trouble finding RV parks with space available—this is before summer, of course—but the prices were high to astronomical. In one RV park near San Francisco, we paid $85.00 a night!. In two months, we paid over $3000.00 for RV parks. Ridiculous. My answer is: MORE BOONDOCKING. I have 300 watts of solar on the roof, I’m buying more portable panels, we’re installing a compost toilet in the rig, and I’m researching how to find free or low cost camping. There’s lots of BLM land, Forest Service, Army Corps of Engineers, no or low fee state parks and other options. The added plus of changing our ‘strategy’ of RVing, besides saving a bundle of money, is that we’ll be able to enjoy the “wilderness” experience again, like camping used to be. So please, all you newbie RVers, pack into those crowded, noisy overpriced RV parks, where your only “view” is the swooshy paint job of your neighbor’s rig, and leave the backwoods to us.
I agree with Bob Zagami comment about the hotel industry missing an opportunity. If new hotels/motels around the country started to set aside a few RV parking spots with hook ups this might alleviate some of the over crowding in campgrounds. Making reservations ahead with no hassles would be great.
Oh yes. Good idea.
Hotels could have 5 or 6 RV spots with hookups & the RV guests could enjoy the pool, amenities & even the free breakfast bar in the mornings:) Charge just bit less than the room rate, and hotel doesn’t even have to send the cleaning staff to put fresh sheets on the bed! A win-win for the hotel AND because the RV guest is using a few of the amenities there they can tell friends about what a nice hotel it was, so they may get hotel customers from this, too.
Christina Ingels
The current problem with this strategy is the land…Most don’t have enough for rigs and trailers. For those limited number that do, some take advantage of that. Some are missing the boat. I like the thought but the price would have to be a lot less than a room. There is no building to pay for. The RV takes up asphalt/concrete space only. You will use a $1 or $2 more electricity with the A/C or heater running all night. But nothing like a hotel room might. They could install a dump location (an infrastructure cost) so that RVer’s could pay extra for that service (separately). But they likely will not as the return on investment period would take years and years. Typical ROI’s for most companies are 3-5 years. A 1 year or less is a no brainer.
We found such a place in Alaska. This was a hotel in Glenallen that had RV sites wih hookups in the front gravel lot. Around $25 if memory serves. We just passing through and this worked very well.
Mike, What a sharp idea you have in suggesting hotels and motels allocate some space in their parking lots for RVs. More efficient use of their real estate I would think. Seems like a no-brainer to me. As soon as one chain finds that this does work for them, others are bound to follow.
It’s a thoughtful, well made argument, Chuck. But like many of your other readers, I too am hesitant to lay this on the doorstep of the RV industry. Not that I disagree that they are the source of the problem, but for the same reason we don’t expect car manufacturers to build more roads, bridges and parking lots. It’s not their business, and I suspect if they DID venture into the RV Park business, they’d probably screw it up as badly as they have managed the QC of most of their RVs. We are “rainbirds”, leaving the PACNW every winter for milder, dryer, sunnier climes. And like you we’ve noticed that it’s no longer an automatic bet that there will be a space available where we want to stay. But we DO see increasing numbers of alternative spots for overnight stays, including not just the infamous Walmart parking lots and truck stops, but in particular the many Casinos which have not only been eager to allow overnight parking for potential gamblers, but have built adjacent RV Parks to take advantage of that market. While nobody (or at least almost nobody) wants to vacation at a Casino, many of us are happy for a cheap overnight spot with full hookups and an adjacent restaurant and/or buffet spot. We make reservations a day ahead while on the road, and always reserve well ahead at the destination parks where we want extended stays. And so far we’ve rarely been turned down.
Bottom line – for us at least the glass is still half full. Take a closer look. Yours might be too…
Isn’t there supposed to be a maximum stay time period at campgrounds and RV Parks? So many places becoming RV graveyards instead of campgrounds. The other problem is the RV’s are so big. why do you need so much for two people?
Because when it’s your only home with all your belongings, 300 sq ft is not a lot.
It’s not a question of “need”. It’s what you want. Pure and simple. If you don’t want a ‘big’ trailer or motorhome, don’t buy one. Meantime, I’ll buy what I want.
Nine years of fulltiming in a 34ft 5er ( our only home). We truly wander & don’t typically go back to the same spots each year. We’ve been to every state at least once & Alaska 3 times. You make some good points, however we have not experienced the severity of the problem that you write about. One reason may be that we set up our rv for boondocking, with solar, generator& large water capacities. By making use of several websites that list free camping sites, we manage to find free overnight locations without reservations in advance. As a result, we spend less than a thousand dollars per year on campground fees. The little time we spend in campgrounds is usually mid-week with plenty of spaces available. The only time we plan ahead is at a major National Park where I usually make a reservation 1-3 months ahead or visit in the shoulder season. We stayed in Yellowstone the 2nd & 3rd week of May this past Spring with no reservations.
The boondocking lifestyle does require a little more effort than just pulling up to a campground & hooking up, but the effort is well worth it to experience the many unique spots we stay in, usually very scenic & secluded.
I see the problems you write about becoming a reality in the future, but with a little planning & effort, you still can enjoy the freedom, the peace & the clean air you experienced years ago.
Your article & many of the comments may discourage those who are contemplating fulltiming as stated by one of the commenters.
You have to be somewhat of a free spirit to do what we do, but we have always trusted that there will be a spot available at the end of the day, & in 9 years of constant travel, we’ve only been let down once. I wouldn’t trade the last 9 years for any other lifestyle & we tell people we can’t imagine living any other lifestyle now. We will keep travelling until health forces us to pull off the road & I will be a happy man in my late, declining years, reliving all the wonderful sites & experiences we had.
Well put. Fred. Living and traveling out west, we rarely run into problems finding a place, but that may be because we mainly boondock. Nevada (our home state), Arizona, Utah, Idaho, and even Montana have provided us with almost endless places to “Find a view, park the house”.
Wow,
Not sure I want to go full time, My wife and are planning to do what you all have done for the last 20 years as my parents did before me. But now after reading the article and comments I feel it’s not worth it. ………….just another pain, just another way to complain about other people’s problems and sitations.
But that’s not me.
Yes we have already ran into the over population of the industry, the poor service, busy roads and all that comes with it. Nevertheless we LOVE the travel, we love driving down the highway, eating snacks, finding new places and meeting new people. Finding back road highways and small towns, the sun rising on our day and when it sets we be a little further down the road.
Here’s to our greatest adventure.
David & Elma Leatherman
Your comments ring true to us. My wife and I have been RVing for just four years and I have noticed a huge difference in that short time. Four years ago we never had to make reservations for a nights stay. We just headed down the road knowing that there would be a place to stay that night. Today, planning our travel itinerary is time consuming and frankly not much fun anymore. After only four years we find ourselves having a conversation about finding a place to settle down in coming up more and more frequently.
I’m not sure what I think about your article. To me there seems to be a number of stakeholders in this situation:
First, we have the RV industry. As you point out, the RV industry itself could help influence the general public and government bureaucratic opinions , but that type of advocacy will face the skeptical charge that of course the industry will paint a rosy picture of the type of people, and change that an RV park will bring to the area only because they want to sell more RV’s and it’s in their best interest to do so.
Next, we have RV’ers and campers themselves. Individually, we can help influence local zoning boards to help influence decisions in favor of a proposed campground, but I fear that a couple of people speaking at a zoning board meeting will have some influence , but probably not enough to sway the voting towards approval.
What I think we need is an organization(s) not affiliated with manufacturers that will advocate and lobby for RV’ers and campers. Local groups with large numbers can have the facts (and the votes) to influence far greater than any single individual. A national organization if populated with enough dues paying members could fund studies to examine and be able to provide positive information to local/state groups to aid in their efforts. I think the best influencers are the users themselves.
Naive? Yes, but in my opinion the most likely way to positively influence local decisions.
There really is a lot in the article. First the Chambers of Commerce are not just selling a lifestyle. They want the tax base. So the 60 home developments are to fund the existing infrastructure without considering the need for greater infrastructure to support the newcomers. I’m watching it happen now. I moved from the suburbs to a rural area 20 years ago, took on a brutal commute to work and have watched the growth of housing and traffic.
I also got married and started RVing 20 years ago. We started with a popup and went on to a selfcontained (very old) trailer. We camped every weekend from March through October. We mosty dry camp with friends. When we did want to use a campground, they were not too hard to find. Mostly we did that when we visited the relatives. They had a seasonal camp site for every summer. Some of their sites were homey and friendly and very enjoyable. Some were much more crowded than any suburb I’ve ever seen, with golf cart traffic issues.
We moved up to a fancier trailer with air conditioning that lured me to campgrounds in the heat of summer. But I find I like the boondocking better. It’s just getting harder and harder to find that.
But regarding campgrounds, I found we liked the places that weren’t in the big compendiums of campgrounds. We would look on old maps for “camping” symbols and explore. Some of the small sites did not have great amenities, no activities, no pools, laundries etc. But they had great people. One had a hidden pond with great fishing. That’s what we look for. And we have never been turned away from them. Though once or twice we just found a place to “park” for the night when they were full-no hookup and no cost- until something opened.
But I’ve watched friends who bought rvs and sold them or parked them a few years later, dissatisfied. And I’ve watched their kids fire up the rv years later. A new generation to follow the pattern.
I’ll keep camping and looking for the small spots. No plan, no itinerary. And I hope to find more next year when I retire from the nightmare commute.
Chuck, I think you’re right on target and have been for a long time.
However, I think it’s pretty simple why it will never change. Camp owners and RV resort
owners don’t and won’t care as long as their parks are full and can continue to
to raise their rates. There is very little incentive for camp owners. RV sellers have no incentive
either to look into the issue. The economy will impact them long before the lack of sites availability. The RV industry will not feel a negative impact of lack of sites. An economic downturn
will hit them long before a too-populated market.
Interesting article and timely … Living in the pressure packed world of an executive, I understand why you only received 1 comment from your 1st publishing. You might not understand your RV executive audience. These folks live in a time crunched, 50-150 emails a day, less is more world. Too get their attention , editing down the article 50% might have opened the door for your audience. Thank you for your hard work and dedication.
Don’t allow your focus to be diverted by details. The root cause of all these issues and our social malaise in general is the worldview that nobody profits until something is sold. Even though Moses did not author this mantra, it’s a commandment nevertheless, hard wired into our brightest minds by universities. Apply this value system to the RV industry and the nicotine delivery business, naming just two, and you’ll understand. Nobody profits until something is sold (even if it’s junk, bad for your health or financially irresponsible). Chuck, I greatly appreciate your efforts to educate the RV community, especially the manufacturers about the perils of the short term profit worldview.
Please Chuck read and understand what we are saying. You are trying to convince the manufacturers of the products(RVs) instead of speaking to and writing to the Campground Developers. Groups like ARVC. Possibly even motel chains. Manufacturers of RVs like manufacturers of autos do not have any interest in where the product is used. It is up to entrepreneurs like the people who developed the campgrounds years ago to build more. You might try talking to the larger chain campgrounds – they might be interested but I sincerely doubt it. You see, as an owner, it makes more sense to keep a site occupied rather than to hold it open for a possible traveler. Think of it this way, money every night vs once in a while. Which would you choose. It is a problem to find a site in a very popular area in high season – but living here in Florida I see the other side, from April to November the parks sit idle and empty unless they attract leaseholders. The campground owners still have bills and they have no campers using the facilities. So they go after the long term people. Your idea of a chain of overnight places is nice but the initial startup fees for occasional usage would be very high. Yes, we would use it sometimes. But those who go for free spots like WalMart wouldn’t use it and those who want more than just electric wouldn’t. Full timers wouldn’t except possibly when they are travelling for more than a day. So your market plan is not very profitable to those who would have to lay the money out. And where exactly would you put these “overnight” spots? Yes, they would have to be along interstates (expensive land) and the users would have to gamble that there would be a spot available when they arrived. These spots would probably fill up pretty fast during the seasonal migration of RVs but they wouldn’t be used during winter, or off season. So for a short time they would be overfilled and the rest empty. Not a viable business model.
I have read Chuck’s weekly column and agree with most of what he says. We have personally not experienced having trouble finding an RV park to stay in. But then we tend to frequent the same areas each year. I never make reservations when we are on the road to the final destination. WE stop early enough that spaces are available, and with the GPS and other references we call ahead about an hour before we plan to stop to check on availability. WE have never had to drive furthere than we planned because we could not find a space to park. For us, a quick overnight is a place with electric, water, maybe cable. WE just pull in and do not unhook the truck from the 5th wheel and we sleep. I do have to make reservations for one of our favorite places to RV about 6 months in advance. Several years ago, we just showed up and we were able to rent a space.
One thing that always amuses me is the term camping used for the way we travel. When you load up your “stuff” into a metal box , then drive it to a place where other people have loaded up their “stuff” and hauled their metal box, it is not camping. Camping denotes a tent, a woods, a campfire. WE just enjoy our own space our own stuff, our own bed and being able to fix a meal, that we know is healthy.
Of course all this does not address the issue of a shortage of camp sites for the increasing number of RV’s on the road. I remember my college biology professor telling us the number one problem this planet faces is “over population” We see it in Rving, in crowded freeways, in school systems and many other venues. Until we address this as a global community, things will continue to get worse.
I think you are right on target, greed will possibly destroy RVing as we know it. But there is one thing to consider:
The RVs being built today by Thor owned companies, and others, are getting so shoddy most of the people who buy them will not be a factor in the hunt for camp sites, their RVs will be tied up in warrantee work for years! They will get pissed off and sell at a loss and get out of RVs all together.
The remaining RVers will benefit and eventually the builders of shoddy units will go out of business. The sooner the better. They will cause the actual reduction of the number of RVs on the road eventually. We will hear from the non-RVing public about how shoddy RVs are and we will be seen as low class even more than before.
If I owned a Campground or RV park I would want it filled every night with a guaranteed income. That comes from long term leases or weekly/monthly rates. Nightly stays requires extra personnel to process and escort around and require constant advertising to maintain a full status. Do not blame the campground owners for trying to maximize their income from their investment. Also as a person that has dealt with local planning commissions the cost of a startup for any business that requires construction is becoming so great that the average guy would have a hard time building a new campground. It only takes a couple of comments from locals to kill a project!
There are so many great comments it is hard to pick one, but Zoom got my attention. He is absolutely correct. I live on a few acres near Tidewater Virginia and have often thought of letting a few campers spend the night, but as Zoom says, local regulations and greedy, yes greedy local politicians along with the few locals that want to dictate everything in sight are like fleas. I would still offer an RVer a place to spend the night. I have a 32 foot MH that I can navigate my driveway with but nothing larger and no tag along. I relish my security so how would I know if an RVer is really in need of rest or just scamming me so they don’t have to pay for a campsite? Rockytop
Hi Chuck, Well it looks like you got plenty of responses and I hope you were not surprised by any of them. I know I wasn’t. One thing I have learned in my many decades of living, people think differently. I have camped/rv’ed off and on since the 60’s. I also never owned or camped in a tent or a pop-up. Not my style, then or now. We made reservations even back then. Where we lived, camping was a popular thing to do. We had 3 state parks in our area (within an hour drive) that have continuously stayed busy over the years with campers and people using them for day use. I remember when it was free to get in and $2.00 to camp (water and electric hookups) all weekend. They also all had beach access. Is it that cheap now, of course not. Is it hard to get reservations? Yes, but it also wasn’t easy years ago either. That is just my example of camping decades ago. As much as I love rving, the last business I would ever own is a campground. Just the simple fact that people don’t either understand or want to understand how hard and expensive it is to own any small business, especially a campground. I’m also very bored with hearing campgrounds should be cheap, have full hookups, and free, fast and unlimited bandwidth WiFi. Then if they don’t fit that criteria the owners are greedy. I also agree with the others that don’t think the RV manufacturers should be concerned if there are enough camp sites to put all the RV’s. I honestly don’t understand why people feel they should care. I do wish they built quality units and rather see more of a movement to get that to happen.
first change is the me,me,me attitude, second , having made several trips to south florida in the winter, there are no empty campground, they are all nearly full. third is keep up the good work, you have hit the nail on the head everytime.
Good article, but I think we’re in a wave. As you mention so often, many RVs are cheap and won’t last. I suspect many folks won’t replace them when they become unserviceable. I say this because I see so many used RVs, and know so many folks who say “we simply don’t use our RV”. Now, this may be an Alaska thing, but I think the popularity is simply a fad right now with a generation hitting the prime “dual-income-two-kids” window. R-Pods are flying off the lot, but I suspect that when the kids go to college, the old R-Pod will either rot, or spend a lot of time on Craigslist with thousands of similar units… no longer new and shiny and clever, just another old trailer ridden hard and put away wet.
So, we just need to wait it out… time and time again we see these unsustainable growth bubbles, and they ALWAYS burst. Once the next thing comes along, RV sales, and use, will begin to decline… one predictor will be when 75% of the “tiny home” shows are cancelled on cable, you’re close to the bubble burst.
Good essay, and I am surprised you didn’t get more comments from industry. Perhaps they’re just too busy counting profits to think it might actually stop sometime.
I agree with Gene except that those old R-Pods won’t die, they will become permanent homes in RV parks. The more people the less housing available for kids starting out and the elderly with limited incomes.
We have been retired since 2016 and spend our winters travelling in the south. Last year we stayed a month in Bullhead City, AZ. We had a full hookup site and once a week I filled our water tank and dumped. We never have reservations when we go. If a park is full so what? We just find a parking lot or another park. That’s the adventure. It is also where we find some of the neatest stuff. Too many “campers” have forgotten what camping is.
Chuck you were definitely right about how many comments you are getting. Keep up the good work!
Chuck! You are so right on & astute about the lack of rv parks & of “quality”!
Chuck, If I took a picture with a drone of Maggie Valley, North Carolina in the Great Smoky Mountains it would look like your picture of the Pennsylvania suburban congestion.
Here is a town responding to the need for more campsites (RV sites). Here you will find an endless clutter of RV Campgrounds….dozens and dozens of tightly packed RV Parks one after another.
Without a reservation you will discover that even with thousands of spaces jammed in to the area like pickles in a jar there are no spaces available even with a month or more of advanced searching.
The area gets over 11 million visitors every year….most seem to arrive in RVs.
Some come to tour the Great Smoky Mountain National Park and get back to nature. (Park records indicate 10+ MILLION visitors every year..most visited Park in US)
Many are Florida RVers escaping the heat and humidity in summer months.
It is all supply and demand and right now demand is at an all time high…..all your well researched articles will never change reality.
Fact: RV Park owners are all fat and happy with every spot producing record profits.
Fact: RV manufacturers are fat and happy too ! There goal is sales and profit…mission accomplished !
Fact: Both groups will not face the future collapse of their industry as long as the dollars continue to roll in.
Keep up the good fight.
We are currently in Maggie Valley. Would not even consider most of the CGs here. However, there is ONE. No pool, no bath houses but nice sites and nice people. If I cannot get in here I’d not come to the area. Already booked a month next year.
I agree about how things have changed concerning anything about RV’s. I started working out of a 16 foot Shasta camp trailer,back then they were called campers, in the mid 1970’s when a spot in a campground was $50 a month.Today it is easily 10 times that much,if you can find a spot.I have to argue somewhat about full timers hogging up RV parks.What are many folks supposed to do when rental housing has went through the roof? Many of us old fogies cannot afford high rents,and sure don’t need a mortgage akin to a New York penthouse. It seems greed has overtaken rationality in America with no end in sight.I don’t know the answer to the RV problem but one thing for sure,the way the RV builders are shoving junk out the door,it WILL come back and bite them in the derriere…it did once..it will happen again.
Lots of good observations and thoughts so I’ll keep mine short. It’s not the responsibility of the RV builders to create campgrounds or parks. Their responsibility is to build quality vehicles that will entice people to buy them. Judging from the increasing number of complaints, many are failing to do that. Eventually people will stop buying junk – or not. So it has always been.
We like to stay in clean places where the owner cares about his/her business so, if we have to pay a little more than bare minimum, we will. We don’t need resort amenities so we don’t pay for them. Our choice –
as it is everyone’s.
My suggestion, Chuck, is to stick to the quality issue and let the parking space problem sort itself out.
I wonder sometimes how much longer we will camp because of the over crowding. I don’t like having to make reservations most of the time.
If the RV industry won’t promote RVers to cities (who may not believe them anyway) why not the Clubs?? Escapees, Good Sam and others could send pictures of gatherings, and even representative caravans to these meetings. “Here we are. The face of RVing. We want to shop at your small boutique stores and eat at Joes Café. We would like to stay a few days and get to know you fine folks. But we can’t, because there are no places we can legally park, and we ARE law-abiding.” Maybe meeting the folks who would be camping would change the minds of the citizens who likely only see news stories about cities with derelict rvs dumping black water on the street…
Chuck, “the way it used to be” is not a reality to folks like us who are NEW to the RV industry.
I, for one, like to know where I will lay my head each night. I look ar RVing the same way I look at motel or hoteling, I make reservations.
Reservations many time assure me of a spot for my RV in a part of the park that appeals to my family.
I agree that we could use a million more RV sites, but I also believe that free enterprise does not support those extra sites. If it did then “they ” would build it.
I am a contributor here and read your column every, week. I applaud your efforts, BUT, I believe
your audience includes both “old timers” who remember the days of yore, and newcomers, who make reservations as a matter of course.
I am with you on reservations! I reserve probably 95% of the time because I don’t want to go looking for a location to stay the night after being on the road all day. I also plan my trips and know approximately where I want to stay every night.
Chuck, Howdy;
I instantly recognized the site of your photo from the plane. I grew up there, well, near-by to be more precise. That’s Levittown/Fairless Hills, Pa. Here’s some history;
https://explorepahistory.com/hmarker.php?markerId=1-A-3DD
you’ll see that the first family moved in in 1952.
I’ve been a fulltimer since 2009, Have been fortunate enough to have found a RV Park that was developed in the 70’s as a Mobile home Park then they just split the sites in half and converted to RV’s. The sites are wide enough that we don’t feel like sardines and all but 1 are true pull throughs.
When I did move around it was during the 2010 2012 time and finding an overnight slot was just starting to become difficult. Having been an Over-the-Road driver for about 10 years I had found some nice out-of-the-way locations to take a nap or rest for awhile. I also utilize Truck Stops (always ask at the fuel desk where to park), so, I can not truly speak of any difficulties finding a place to “camp” for the night. I use my noggin and to use a phrase used in the Military, “Adapt, Overcome, Survive”.
Chuck,
Many good points brought up in your article. I agree with them all, so I’ll offer some solutions. These won’t be the fix-all for everyone’s fight to find the best rv spot but they are alternatives. With our little group of rv buddies there are people who have lots of interests- some are boaters for example. I met someone who is a member of a yacht club locally and their club which sits right on a river has 5 rv spaces. They are used by members and their guests…first come, first served basis. I’ll be taking advantage of this perk soon. Elks Lodges, Moose Lodges, and more offer rv spots as well- I know you’ve talked about these before. There are other opportunities out there and as people get acquainted with each other some of those can be enlightening. Strike up some conversation with your fellow rv’ers and you might find out about some great alternative rv spots.
Yes, it’s a real problem, but it’s OUR problem – the RVers. We can’t expect the RV manufacturers to solve it. And we can’t expect land developers or municipalities to invest in building campsites, never mind affordable ones, without statistics to show their investment will pay off. We also can’t assume they’re aware of the supply and demand situation and potential opportunity, if we’re only grumbling about it in our own RV-related circles.
We, the travelers, need to take a pro-active role to let them know. I have two suggestions:
1 – An organized marketing effort – possibly led by clubs like FMCA or Escapees. It can be area-specific, in places where campsite demand almost always exceeds supply. It needs to include concrete statistics of how much the average RV traveler spends and what they buy while camped in the area.
A somewhat realistic example (based on just my guess) might be $1,000 per RV per month (on top of camping fees). That means that adding 1,000 campsites (if the demand is there) could add $12 million dollars annually to the local economy, over and above the camping fees. It could be enough to encourage adding affordable camping on municipal properties they already own.
2- An individual effort by every one of us.
Wherever we spend money, make a point of telling the cashier, the restaurant owner, the mechanic, the museum curator, etc. that we are traveling by RV and how difficult it was to find a campsite so we could be here to give them our business. Stop by the Chamber of Commerce, too. Leave a written comment. Let them know you had to reserve months in advance, and where you’re staying (eg. at Walmart or Flying J) for lack of a suitable campsite. Or that you had planned to stay longer but without a place to camp, need to move on. If we scatter the seeds of a business opportunity idea everywhere we go, a few may germinate.
Nothing will happen without developers who are willing to take the risk, but they need other business owners and municipal council members to vote to support the idea.
And finally, if the reason many municipalities reject new campgrounds is because they’re afraid they will become another “trailer park” filled with run-down, full-time residences in an RV that has not been moved in years, I can understand that fear. But I presume it can be prevented with site-specific bylaws.
Marianne’s comments are very well thought-out, and her viewpoint is the same as mine; namely that manufacturers don’t have the inducement to care much, and that local governments are populated by folks who don’t care to understand what RVing is.
Many years ago the Gillette company and Kodak figured out that if they made quality base products, selling at a reasonable price that they could then have a long term reliable income stream by selling blades and film. Printer makers today do a similar thing by selling $50.00 printers and $60.00 ink cartriges. If RV manufacturers were shown how they could sustain sales and diversify into income producing product support then we might see more interest from them.
Her other point suggests what I believe is confusion among members of local zoning and planning boards. For example, when Hurricane Harvey severely damaged several popular rv resorts around Port Aransas, Texas, the town’s Mayor told the news media that “trailer parks” were damaged! So that’s what they published…”trailer parks”, not several 300-site resorts filled with millions of dollars of rvs of tourists. They also referred to the rvs as “mobile homes”, which conjures up an entirely different clientele. If they had imagined the rv resorts’ clients as more akin to resort hotel clients, the perception would be more widely held that these were visitors spending their discretionary money and time.
We who enjoy owning and using rvs have a clear need to re-educate the makers and legislators from their financial point of view, not ours.
This is something that many of the Good Sam Rallies do. They collect the receipts from the RVers there, things that they have purchased during the rally and tally it and report to the city council of whatever city we are camping in. This positively shows the municipality that we do spend (usually a lot) in the local area. This ensures them welcoming us back another year. We hold the rallies at local airports (which usually have to close for the duration (or at least restrict usage) We do try to arrive staggered so that 3-4000 coaches aren’t clogging up the roads. It does work. It would be nice if the club was involved with finding/establishing campsites/campgrounds. They do have a few, there is one in Oxford Alabama along I-20 that comes to mind. It is a joint Camping World/Good Sam Campground… it actually came about because CW had purchased a dealership there and found it also bought a small campground. To their credit they expanded the campground and it is now a lovely place for overnighting. All pull thrus, fhu, but only a gravel parking lot style and the only amenity is a laundry but it isn’t expensive and works great for those passing through. The other part of the campground is trees and grass and is made for longer term camping. So Chuck, it can and is being done, and gasp by CW.
The RV manufacturers cannot build a decent RV so unlikely they could have a positive influence CG building a single camp site.
Supply and demand! CG owners have a long way to go on raising prices. Same with mobile techs, a good one could get a $200 minimum per visit. The local dealers are charging $145 per hour of tech time now,,, raise it up too.
I live on the NC/SC boarder at the coast. Not only have winter rates gone up~~ those that used to close during winter are full of snowbirds. Although this is an area of “No Mo Sno” I still head to Florida for winter. Sun Communities is building a 900 site resort about 20 minutes inland from Myrtle Beach. Rates there have gone up, and have a long way to go. One CG we stayed at not very long ago for 4 months was $2400. Today that same site is $2300 for 1 month.
Hint ~ Below Tampa in winter is most expensive and cooler northern FL areas cooler and cheaper. That flips in summer when it is too hot in southern FL. then prices rise in the northern part. Inland in farm country is always less.
Even the CGs on military bases are much more crowded ~ example the waiting list at MacDill AFB is very long. Restrictions on who is able to use these facilities keep 99.99% of the population out.
Maybe if fuel prices go up $1- $2 per gallon it would help a little.
Your analogy is right on. When my wife and I started RVing 40 years ago a spur of the moment Camping trip was an every weekend event. Today, in areas like SoCal, you PLAN a weekend away months in advance, with little chance of getting into the camp ground you want. 🙁
We have adjusted our camping experience and no longer camp on weekends or holidays. We take advantage of COEs as much as possible from Mondays to Fridays and leave before the weekenders arrive. When traveling on weekends we take advantage of the Walmarts, truck stops, along with boondocking at out of the way spots. Never had a problem finding a place to park. We own a home in the country and I don’t see us keeping the MH past five more years. We then will do all our camping in the back yard overlooking the woods that we own.
Good points, Chuck. I live on 9 acres in the Black Hills and the last thing I want when I go “camping” is to have my neighbor a few feet away. I believe some of the comments about this being a temporary surge is true, as the baby boomers age camping will become less attractive to them and shoddy workmanship will dissuade others also. My wife and I recently purchased a 2012 travel trailer that looked like it was seldom if ever used, I know the microwave , oven and outdoor grill never were. Keep up the good fight.
Good article, Chuck, and right on target. About a month ago I began trying to get some reservations in county and state parks in AZ for a month stay in March. Finally gave up on that when I would hit a night when there was nothing available at all, even though I was willing to move from one site to another. We then tried a senior RV park (not our first choice) without success, then finally were able to get into a sister park. It was very frustrating.
Someone else commented that this isn’t the RV manufacturers’ responsibility. Maybe not, but it’s very shortsighted planning on their part not to encourage development of campgrounds. If not, their business will die down. They should take a lesson from electric car manufacturers and their work on developing public recharging stations.
Last and unrelated – I really enjoy both the daily updates and your Saturday edition. With so much negative news today, it’s nice to be able to relax with your columns!
Great article! We ran into this situation this fall driving back from MN to PA. Don’t even try to find a camp site in a private park on a Saturday night without a reservation! RV manufacturers will never address the problem until it starts to effect their bottom line. It seems that most are catering to the younger RVer with a family that wants to go full time as a way to save money. Maybe they can’t find affordable housing. This will only get worse. People like us who have camped for years will just drop out due to the hassle. When it stops being fun, it’s just not worth it.
Agree with Dick Snyder’s thoughts on the subject. I will now discuss with a ‘broad brush’ as specifics are too difficult. I also, think there are a lot of stakeholders regarding the industry – builders, owners, campground owners, etc. RVTravel needs to be careful it does not try and address all issues and end up addressing nothing very well. For many it’s all about the money – they are in business and that’s a big reality. The fact that current trailers and motorhomes are such poor quality is a huge issue and people need to be made aware of it BUT the only thing that is going to get manufacturers to improve the quality is poor sales and lawsuits. As for RVing today and the quality/quantity of campgrounds, RVing has changed and the terminology needs to change with it. Full timers that stay months in one site are not ‘campers’, they are home owners, and usually seek sites that offer all the amenities plus. RVers that use there rigs for a few weekends, weeks or months a year are usually ‘campers’ that stay at one site for 1-5 nights. The amenities they want range from none to water/electric/sewer and dump station. These are two VERY different markets and granted the long-term RVer that stays months at one site must find accommodation along the route to their destination but it’s usually a site of convenience along the highways. I think many of the RVers now buying the rigs with all the bells and whistles, who travel less than 2-3 weeks a year are going to find it’s not all it was cracked up to be. Owning an RV large or small is a lot of work and an investment (money/time) that is rather questionable if you are only going to use it a few weeks a year. Take into account all the problems with the newer rigs and the headaches begin and the reality check becomes very real. Seems the RV camping industry needs to have a bit of a reality check too – are you going to be able to make enough money to own, manage and maintain the campground (private or public). Who is your market? All the issues associated with owning a business need to be addressed (nothing has changed much in that arena). So now what kind of business do you want to run? Try to meet all their needs and entertain them or just provide a place that provides the basics or less. A big change that we as the RVing public need to do is get involved in educating the campground/recreation area owners/stake holders (state & federal). What is we (RVers) want/need (sites/amenities/etc) and what do we not want (RV parks = people living full-time year round)? We need to support the campgrounds effectively so they can survive financially. I personally like to boon-dock sometimes, dry camp sometimes and have electric hookup sometimes. Water at the site is desired but a hookup is not always necessary and the same for sewer. A dump station is good. WIFI? I seek it out when needed but it’s not necessary. I do not want to pay a fee for things I don’t want or use (usually the $50 plus campgrounds). I do not want to get away from the noise of everyday life – no radio, no TV. As for comparing RVing reservations to hotel reservations – not the same. I dislike the reservation system, especially the state & federal systems that charge a fee just to make a reservation. If I had to reserve every campground I visited the cost becomes prohibitive. Yes, I do make reservations sometimes, when necessary, but I do not go to the busiest campgrounds/areas nor travel during peak season if possible. Finally, I’d like to reiterate that you need to be careful and try not to be everything to everyone. It tends to weaken the energy and focus of what RV Travel does best – educate and inform with regard to the experience of RVing. Seems we should be less concerned about the manufacturers/sales businesses (yes, educate us and our support or non-support of them will speak volumes) and be more engaged with the campground/recreation area and the RVing experience side of things. Well, it looks as if you got more than one response. Hope all of this provides you with some of the answers you might have been seeking – certainly thought provoking.
So, Chuck, you’ve stated the problem. Who is responsible for coming up with the solution? When Henry Ford first started building cars, when Louis Chevrolet started building cars, or Durant, or Walter Chrysler, I don’t think they saw it as their responsibility to build roads. That was somebody else’s problem. Similarly Thor, Winnebago, and the rest don’t see building RV parks as their problem. And let’s face it, as much, Chuck, as you seem to hate Camping World and their desire to make money, that’s what capitalism is all about. If they didn’t make money, they wouldn’t be in business. Just like Ford or GM or Walgreens or Publix or any large company. If you don’t make money, then you go down the Sears route. Bankruptcy!
I agree municipalities have a responsibility to provide services that people need. But RV manufacturers don’t provide any funding to the cities, towns and villages of the nation through taxes. So the mayor and his cohorts see no reason to provide these services. Full time RV’ers are a roving band . They don’t pay property taxes, don’t pay school taxes, don’t pay for infrastructure costs in communities. For the most part, they are “in and out”. So, Mr. Mayor says, “Why would we spend funds on them when they’re not my tax base.” Don’t blame him. So that leaves it to investors who see a RV Campground as an investment to make money. There’s that ugly word “Capitalism” again. I, personally, don’t have the funds to buy X number of acres, put in electricity, water, sewers, Cable TV, WIFI, playgrounds, dog walks, and all the other amenities that RV’ers want. Nor do I have the desire. Not sure that many people do. So where does this leave us – not sure.
I agree with most of what you say, but as for property taxes and school taxes. If the owner of the RV park that pays for property tax does his calculations right those taxes should be part of the space rent for the night/week/ month, so if its done right RVers are paying their share of the taxes.
The town does collect from “transient” RV’ers. they collect property taxes from the RV park just being there and a lot of parks I have stayed in collect a local tax just like a hotel room charges a local tax. Plenty of money to be made.
They do pay taxes as pointed out by a few already. In addition, they frequent local establishments, museums, shopping centers, auto parts, tourist traps and the like. Cities are missing out on this group of “transients” for sure all because a few rotten apples make it hard on the rest of us.
Here’s the solution: Reverse the disastrous growth in human population.
Overpopulation drives the lack of RV sites AND climate change, deforestation, mass migrations, shortage of water, famines, air pollution, etc.
Either we will reduce population in an orderly fashion or all the above problems will continue to worsen until there is global tragedy.
How to teach young ladies to keep an aspirin between their knees? Please enlighten us as to how you would control the population.
Human beings are mammals and our goal is the same as that of any other species, reproduction. However, being intelligent beings (supposedly) we have developed a way to maintain life beyond the natural boundaries. It’s a choice. More people or look for solutions such as vasectomies, birth control, and abortion. Very little other options exist unless you would believe Henry Kissinger who wrote a paper to the U.N., Kissinger’s 1974 Plan for Food Control Genocide.
It takes two to “tango”!
That’s what Hitler said!
Chuck et al,
We are semi-retired boomers who just started Rv’ing in a TT 5 years ago.
I can’t speak to “how it used to be”. I can only live in 2018 and adapt to today.
We try to focus on the positives….
We embrace music festivals, but my husband needs a CPAP. Our solar panel maintains 3 batteries well.
The RV Parks Review site is great for evaluating and reserving spots throughout the western USA.
Casino RV parks and County Fair with hookup sites work well for us too.
We are avid golfers and use the RV Golf site to boondock in golf course lots.
Emotionally, I really need confirmed reservations on our trips.
Sometimes, that means making reservations 3 months in advance.
Even though the quality of our 2017 KZ is poor, we fix what is broken and carry on.
Can’t wait for our next adventure next week!
We’re rainbirds from Western Oregon who go noodle about the Southwest for 4-5 months in the winter in a 28′ TT. Our base of operations is the Imperial Dam LTVA, but we range far and wide and rarely have trouble finding a spot, because we drive the blue highways and stay in mostly at out-of-the way National Monuments and smaller National Parks as well as State, County and even City Parks. Boondocking and primitive campgrounds are beautiful, uncrowded and free or cheap. I think a lot of RVer’s are unconsciously addicted to hookups or just naive of other options- why else would residential fridges be a thing? I’ve never “camped” at a Walmart or Flying J – too cluttered and loud, all the charm of a pair of dirty socks. It’s not the RV industry’s job to make sure we have a place to be. County-level zoning boards and Chambers of Commerce are where to start agitating. But this is the USA – show someone the money and it will be followed. Looking forward to trying out some other options as well – Harvest Hosts and HipCamp, and I’m sure there are others. We’re not Boomers or Millenials, we’re Gen-X and we fix stuff. 🙂
TR Kelly, yep that’s it! Love your comment!!
“I think a lot of RVer’s are unconsciously addicted to hookups or just naive of other options- why else would residential fridges be a thing?”
Great article Chuck
It will get worse before it gets better.
Airlines have made travel miserable and costly. Families are better off with a cheap trailer and have more fun getting to the destination.
Years ago RV manufactures built resorts to encourage buying their coaches.
In Colorado I have tried to get developers to build a class A rv Park and no one can get a city to approve.
Great need here even for KOA IN the Denver Area
I also will not buy anything from Camping World or Good Sam
Bad for America .
I also do not buy from Amazon due to the carbon foot print they are leaving.
Too much packaging trash !
Thanks for your articles and that you are not influenced by advertisers.
Great article and agree with all of it. I live in So Cal and you do have to make reservations months in advance most of the time. Also around popular tourist places. But I will say as I traveled from CA to Pittsburgh PA last year once out of Ca most place I called about an hour out and had no problem getting a place for the night in my road trip. Plus the prices dropped once out of Ca also from like $50+ a night to an average of about $22 a night with full hook ups and that is mostly using the Good Sam campground too. I will say some were just ok and some were very beautiful campgrounds. Do we need more campgrounds YES but if you do some planning and use your phone apps you can make the travel trip fun. I am hoping to make the trip again this next year and look forward to the nice campgrounds and nice people we meet.
https://www.ohioturnpike.org/travelers/service-plazas
As a sunbird who spends summers away from SW Florida I use our 21 ft trailer as a “hotel room” as we travel around touring and sightseeing in other states and provinces. We enjoy nice sites that allow us to spend 4-7 nites to explore a new area but ALSO like convenient short overnight places along the drive to recharge after a long day of driving.
We found the model of the OHIO turnpike RV spaces in their travel places to be perfect and wish this was possible in other states where space was made available.
Currently they are first come first serve.
My husband and I have been camping for quite a few years now and each year it gets harder and harder to find a campsite. We travel south and north a lot and go a little west also. Mainly south or southwest to get out of the winter weather. We like having full hookups (water/sewer/electricity). A lot of sites do not have sewer. The biggest problem that we have found is that a lot of campgrounds/rv parks are reserved for full time winter patrons and they only have a few sites they leave open for the one night to weekend stay. This leaves very few spots available for the “growing” full time rv’ers and winter campers, which we have become a part of. This year I spent several weeks researching, several phone calls before I could find a campsite near the town where we wanted/needed to be that had electric/water/sewer hookup but that also had wifi. We use it to skype with our grandchildren. Most campground wifi’s are very spotty and the more people in them makes it harder to even get online. In order for us to just get unlimited data on our cell phones, we would be paying over $160 just to the cell phone companies. Where in lies another problem of having spotty cell phone signals (depending on where you are). Anyways, as I made calls, many of the campgrounds wanted me to send a picture of my camper and to prove that it was in good condition, some said that they don’t allow any campers with trailers that have any dings/dents/damage or that their decals were coming off or missing, some wanted me to sign a contract, some requested that I show proof that my camper was insured, etc. My camper is going on 10 years old. It is in good condition, heck, we live in it most of the time – so it needs to be. I was just totally amazed at all the questions and rules that are being placed on the “camper” today. I understand that there are city/township/county/state laws and regulations to be followed, but WOW. Some people can afford paying thousands of dollars per month to camp but others can not even afford $500 per month. There is a large difference in what can be afforded and what is available and what amenities are available. It has become such a “business” that the fun and enjoyment of enjoying this beautiful earth that GOD has given us has become harder and harder to enjoy. It seems that there are years old regulations in some areas and in others the regulations are new and almost to the point that they make it hard to camp. Camping/winter camping/living is no longer different than just buying into that “suburb”. That feeling of freedom, fresh clean air is slowing being removed. It is sad. I believe that campers need a voice and to be heard, but sadly there is no place for it as of yet. We are being sold products of bad quality and purchases on loans that are way outlandish on price/interest rates etc. LEMONS but with no one to do anything about it. We need regulations, but in all areas of the camping/rv industry.
I work part-time at a luxury RV resort in the mountains of Colorado. This model will never be replicated in the resort areas because the land is far more valuable to a developer as a condo complex nowadays. The only reason this resort still exists is that all of the lots are individually owned, any many by folks who are not as concerned with the money as they are with having their own little piece of the mountains. We also avoid the “full-time” phenomenon due to county zoning–the lots are all zoned as vacation rentals, so they can only be occupied a maximum of 240 nights total per year.
There ARE properties in neighboring counties (where most of the employees from the resorts actually live), but it would mean that high-end RVers would have to be willing to camp 20-40 miles away from their chosen destination. You also still have the zoning/regulation issues, and in places out here in the West like Colorado, water rights can also create major issues for new developments. Add to that the inherent seasonality of areas (in Colorado, realistically there are about 3 months when an RV resort can be profitable, but those mortgage payments, property taxes, insurance payments, etc. are year-round), and it soon makes profitability seem out of reach.
Having said all that, I DO have an idea for a solution, but I am just a sometime RVer without a huge platform to try to spread it. We need to encourage a peer-to-peer site for booking RV spaces similar to AirBnB, but for RV sites. It could be available both to campground owners AND private landowners who might have an open field somewhere. Boondockers Welcome is a wonderful concept, but how many landowners are willing to tie themselves to their property, put in any types of improvements, etc., just for the goodwill of the traveling public? If they could make a little MONEY off their land (and that is NOT a bad thing….), it might be worth their while to run some electric out there, put in extra water, possibly a dump station, etc. If there were a nationally recognized platform (such as AirBnB or VRBO for the short-term lodging industry), it might CREATE demand–and could also show developers and local officials the financial benefits an RV park could bring.
I am not a programmer. I have neither the ability nor the resources to build something like this, but maybe if we concentrate on more positive aspects of CREATING opportunities, we might actually fix some of these issues?….
Look into the company called Outdoorsy that is like Air BnB. The website explains them.
Steve C, your idea is fantastic. An AirBnB for RVs would make great sense, might even get me to buy a space in my favorite park if I could rent it out when I was planning to be on the road. That would make the price affordable. Thanks for the idea.
As the new manager of Shadrack Campground.com in Bristol, Tn. we always have sites available. We’re always happy to accommodate those without reservations. Come check us out. We accept Passport America, Good Sam, and Military discounts. Not trying to advertise, just want to state there are campgrounds that still have availability.
Best of luck. Looks like you have a captive crowd for the races, and are also along a path that many might use when traveling from Northeast corridor to some of the warmer winter locations. Website could be updated as your cancelled events in 2017 aren’t a best foot forward. Are you open year round?
Corporate is now beginning to control the RV and the RV Park market. Welcome to Corporate Amerika where every corporation has a vote of more…No big money in excess rv spaces…
About the time that those crowded hillsides were rural ranch land, the population of the USA was around 1,500,00. No one seems to want to address the continually GROWING problem of
overpopulation.
Camping or RVing used to be preferred for a less costly way to travel with your family and now with the shortage of campground sites without a reservation it makes it hard to even consider that option. Sometimes you would like to just go where you want and stop where you want but having to make reservations don’t always allow for that. If you have never been to a place and would like to stay a little longer you may not be able to because you did not reserve the extra time. As some comments say the closest RV Park can be miles from where you want to visit which makes it less likely to be able to see all you want to.
Rod — you hit the nail on the head … I sure would LOVE to her more conversation on the subject of overpopulation — or do we wait for the civil war that is building?
Chuck, when you are done pounding you war drums about Camping World and the RV builders, you should focus on a real problem.
Boeing and others keep building more and more planes. At the same time, airlines keep putting the seats closer together and charging higher fares. Sometimes it costs $600 for a seat, and then I have to pay $50 for a bag… if I can even get on the flight. In 1980, I used to be able to fly from city to city and often stretch out and sleep across the whole row. I could bring as much baggage as I wanted. Some flights only had about 20 people, so we weren’t all parked on top of each other. Who is going to fix this situation?
I applaud Chuck for being persistent in point out the poor quality of RV’s built today, the financing racket, and the monopoly of Camping World. Leave the cost an airline ticket and problems with that industry to someone else.
Eureka, I think I have another solution:
Amend the Federal Highway Aid act so that to receive federal assistance for interstate roadway interchanges (new or rebuild) there is requirement for every 6 motels built at a single interstate exit, the local establishments must acquire property, build and service an RV overnight area equivalent to their total number of rooms divided by 100, within two exchanges either direction. (We don’t necessarily want to be right behind 6 motels, Denny’s, McDonalds and 4 gas stations do we?)
.
Chuck, I’ve read a large chunk of the comments you’ve received so far and I just have to comment on a theme I’ll paraphrase.. “Remember, they are a business, they need to make money and it’s OK if that’s the number one measure of how they operate.” This headset that making money is all that matters, as much money as possible, devoid of a thought for working together with your fellow humans / customers to meet everyone’s needs, is just wrong headed.
It’s easy to witness this happening in big industry where workers are becoming viewed as parts to be used up and replaced as soon as they are no longer needed, as long as the bottom line keeps going up. You can see it in the idea that a business isn’t successful unless it creates a hefty increase in profits each year (as seen in stock prices). That headset is controlling RV manufacturers, city and town councils (via tax revenue), developers who will opt for massive condo/gated communities over RV Parks, the decision to grow/improve existing RV parks, etc.
The problem, as I see it, is as much social as financial. When we became full-time RVers and rented, then sold our condo, we discovered how much ‘stuff’ we had accumulated and didn’t need (or use). We started thinking about what was really important, and it was enjoying our lives with friends and family and not about how much ‘stuff’ we had. Maybe, if we can find a way to help people stop equating success with how much ‘stuff’/money they accumulate, the headset will change. RV manufacturers would become as interested in how customers were experiencing their purchase and how they could improve that experience, as they were in profit margin. They would determine what they could do to to make satisfaction a measure of business success which it surely will be if they care about return business and reputation. City and town councils would recognize that RV visitors contribute as much money to town businesses and tax revenue as hotel visitors. I suspect many of these cities and towns currently have property on their rolls that aren’t producing any significant tax income. They could change that by encouraging developers to turn that property into profitable RV parks.
When these entities start focusing on people instead of dollars, I believe they will still be profitable, maybe even more so, and everyone will benefit.
OK… I’ll step down from my podium 😉
Does anybody else feel guilty?
From ages 18-64, I drove tiny vehicles that were as fuel efficient as possible. My Jetta diesels all achieved 48+ combined mileage and when the fed stop delaying the date for cleaner diesel fuel, diesels became better stewards of our environment. I slept on the ground (tents) until this year, with the exception of two years of a novel fiberglass (1972 Compact Jr) TT that could be towed behind a small vehicle. I traveled alone, with friend(s) and then with family.
Now, at age 65, I have a gas guzzling Class C (yes, there are slightly more fuel conservative choices/combos). I get to stay in comfort, even luxury, protected from the elements. However, I still feel guilty about the carbon footprint I am leaving.
I am proud to see one of my children enjoying nature on 1-2 week long treks with nothing more than a backpack.
The cause I’d really like to fight for is the paradigm shift needed to have tiny tents/hammocks be accepted along America’s byways as long as they leave no footprint. I really feel guilty asking others to support stayovers of my motorhome, or even complaining about the fact cities have grown and replaced open areas, while the ratio of available RV spaces to RVs produced keeps falling.
So far, I have found someplace to park every night. I have stayed at beautiful campgrounds overlooking waterways or scenic vistas. Campgrounds operated for/by Federal agencies and state parks have had accommodations, although I am prepared and willing to use the self-sufficiency of an RV for a few days at a time (read: no electric, water, sewer). I’ve also sampled parking areas and dispersed. I stopped at (or called) RV parks where the age of my RV was prohibited, or they were full (for the next month or two). And yes, I know that all summer long, there will be scarcity on Friday & Saturday all over the country. My expectations are adjusted for today’s realities. I still feel guilty that I am indulging in such luxury and pollution.
Feel guilty, that is a hands down no. My first car could hold 8 people, was a V8, took leaded gas and was made of steel.
We are some of those full-time RVers clogging up your parks. That’s because we simply can’t afford to live any other way. My disability and my husband’s divorce wiped out our retirement funds and now we live on SSI – and we are far from the only ones we’ve met over the past year. Hopefully those RVers not able to get a reservation at least still have a home to stay in – plenty of us no longer have that option. And you and I both know it is going to get waaayy worse, not better.
I like Chuck’s idea of hitting them in the financial pocket. What does that really mean to most rvers who are retired? How many of us are invested in mutual funds that are contrary to the subject at hand? Most people don’t check or the information is so convoluted that you can’t get to the bottom of the file as funds are sold and purchased. People are against low minimum wage but are invested in funds that support those companies known for paying minimum wage. People complain about CW and then go and shop at their stores.
As Chuck said, why doesn’t the industry support communities and builders of rv parks by sending representatives to city council meeting and the state legislature? It’s funny, most of us grew up in the 60s where it was popular to rail against government and now it appears we are sitting on our laurels. Write to your local authorities, city councilpersons, senators, and representatives and rv manufacturers. Saying and doing are two different animals. It’s time to act.
Are you willing to give up some or a little of your comfortable rving life so that others in the future, such as our children, will be able to continue the rv lifestyle?
I grew up in the Philly area, and trust me, 40 years ago very little of the immediate suburbs were considered “country”. Philly was always a neighborhood centered community and in the time between 1945 and 1965, or so when the suburbs were built up that tradition continued.
I noticed how you still managed to fit in a dig against Camping World. This is a regular thing anymore. I don’t know what it is but your hatred of them is almost unhealthy. Fine, you have issues with them but do you constantly need to rail against them and their CEO? Now KOA is quickly growing to a similar vein. Enough. We get it already.
I can’t disagree with you, but I would point beyond the manufacturers to the organizations that say they represent the RV communities – FMCA, Escapees, Good Sam, Passport America and the rest. Many offer excellent benefits to the individual RV owner, but fail to take on representing their membership as a body and the RV community as a whole. After that, those of us IN the organizations could be seen to be shirking a proactive stance in the matter. If we leave it for others and don’t start pressing up, then nothing will happen. Get involved! Demand that the dues you pay go for more than a discount on tires or lower rates at a campground. Demand they fund a concerted lobbying effort to enhance your own lifestyle!
In reading all of these comments, a couple of thoughts come to mind. First, some argue that RV builders have no vested interest in CGs and therefore should not be held responsible in any way for the problems. Then again, some argue that RV builders are creating the problem and therefore should solve it. It seems to me that somewhere in the middle of these two arguments is the answer. That development you pictured is a place to start. The developer found the land and planned to build houses. But the developer needs some things-electricity, water, sewer, roads, etc. While he does not build these, and is not responsible, necessarily, for providing them, you can be certain that he is at the table and seriously involved in influencing those that are responsible for their provision. So RV builders should be involved in the infrastructure development for their product. Not by themselves, though. There should be a national group composed of RV builders, CG association members, RV clubs, city and municipality associations, insurance industry representatives, RV publications, and others, along with several actual, real RV campers. Their goal should be to create a dialogue leading to real solutions to the issue. That housing developer was part of the discussions and decisions regarding infrastructure in his development. And so should the RV builders.
Second, having said this, we usually look for the off-the-beaten-path mom-and-pop CGs or small town RV sites at their city parks, for this very reason. We don’t like the crowds at major tourist sites. And many quiet, uncrowded sites can be found, even in the state of ND where I live. Many will only have electricity, but with fresh water and dump site available.
Anyway, just a few thoughts. Happy and safe travels to all. I will do much more next year after retirement begins. Be looking for you on the road!
Yep Chuck, times are a changin’ and I would go back to 1950 if I could. Dad started “trailer camping” then – I don’t think “RV” had been invented back then. Now I’m in a Roadtrek Class B. (I have gotten soft.)
The RV industry as a whole SHOULD provide/support RV resorts and campgrounds. If I recall the PBS programs I have seen, the trolley car lines that ran through cities created amusement parks at the end of their lines to increase ridership. Railroads built Lodges at the end of or along their lines to increase ridership. Even before cars, some people improved the muddy roads along the way and charged a toll, to get people to their inn/tavern. I’m sure there are many other examples of how business created a destination for their product.
Mr. Camping World should set up a RV park at every one of his stores. (I don’t think I would stay there but it would get people off the road to make room for me.) Lazydays RV in Tampa is a huge RV dealer with a huge RV park right next to its dealership. It sure works for them.
The RV industry including the RV organizations should not be so short sighted as to not create a destination for their products or organizations if they want to exist into the future.
OR…. is it that the CEOs of these organizations just do not care, if they can get their million dollar salary and golden parachute? – don’t care if their company goes under after they leave? OR …. do they see that the industry is at its peak and that when it crashes they would end up with an oversupply of empty parks?
We travel to travel. We are not destination people. Motel RV spots, roadside overnight spots would work just fine for us. I do not mean Walmart parking lots.
Keep the flag flyin’ high.
Chuck, thanks for posting the article. We are seasonal campers and travelers and so far we’ve noticed that the full hookup campgrounds in our area are increasingly harder to get into. Even trying to make a reservation almost a year in advance is near impossible. On the positive side, we much prefer dispersed camping and we can usually find something in our area. The major holidays do take planning, but it’s been that way for quite some time. Our major travel is done mid to late September and we usually don’t have a problem with finding a spot at that time of year. The biggest problem is with FS CG’s closing early.
There is no doubt that the RV life is not like it used to be, with good and bad things that have come with progress.
As far as the marketing needed to encourage communities to open small RV locations, that comes down to not having the skills or the motivation needed to do that marketing. Sadly, if it is not profitable, then there is no incentive to train a department that is dedicated to advocating for RVers.
Wow! Lots of comments. I, too, started camping in 1981 when our only child was 2 yeas old. [he and his family are also RVers.] Back then we only made reservations at places like Disney World. Everything else was ‘as you go’ with no problems. The lack of campsites became worse about 2014 and now finding a spot for the night is extremely difficult even if you call early in the morning. Many campgrounds are full. I hope the situation changes – soon. Approaching 74 years of age I certainly don’t need the stress of not finding a place to stay for the night.
Family commitments forced me to make a detailed plan, and then follow that plan with almost 100% reservations over a one month time frame this summer. We stayed with a Harvest Host for one night, but it was very warm and no one was happy. I’m still hearing about it. This originally came about because a National Forest reservation fell through due to flooding. We twiddled our thumbs at some locations and wished we could extend at others, but with reservations we had to stick to the plan or pay additional cancellation/change fees. I only had one reservation at a national park when we headed west for a one month trip in mid-September. I didn’t expect problems, but Utah was downright crowded. No space at any campground in or around Moab. There must be at least 20 or 25 campgrounds. I finally found one site (last one) at a campground about 40 minutes north in a mostly abandoned town. Despite the warm weather we got turned away from two federal campgrounds closing for the season. Even the hosts didn’t get why they closed so early. We’ll continue to camp until it’s not fun any more. We live in Florida and can’t use our state parks unless we reserve way in advance. Commitments that far out are very difficult when you’re older. To make matters worse: I see there’s a new computerized notification service for cancellations. I can’t compete with that. We may only be good for another year or two before we just give up and retire from RVing.
Lots of good comments. I think that the answer is that we are the consumers and control significant “spend” that’s required for any solution to be successful. Escapees has a model where members invested in parks and worked to improve their parks for long term folks and provided space for travelers. It seems the momentum has waned and needs a kickstart for growth. Their model allowed for people to sell to get their original investment back.
The Airbnb type solution is interesting, but probably won’t serve enough people to be a long term solution.
I think we need to consolidate our buying power and create our own solution. Why not create a poll and see how much each of us would invest to start building your “10 buck Chuck” hybrid RV parks? You have started the discussion and can take it to the next level or find an existing organization that could carry it forward.
We just completed a ten week 11000 mile RV trip from Florida to Idaho and back. Most of the time was spent driving. Most nights were in RV parks, packed in like sardines. High prices…view of my neighbor’s sewer hose.
State Parks are no longer a deal. Same prices as RV parks, with slightly larger sites…usually. I can’t even stay in my home state of Florida any more. The Keys are booked a year in advance.
No RV parking signs everywhere.
Sure not like the pictures in Camping World advertising. 🙂
We have a 21 foot Roadtrek. We thought we could go anywhere. But now stuck “boondocking” in my sons driveway in Houston. At least I feel welcome.
Seeing the lead picture, and having left the Philadelphia suburbs for fulltime RVing, my initial reaction was there are too many people. We saw the area around our house grow with new developments that increased traffic congestion. My cousin, who has lived in Florida for over 30 years, recently told me about the numbers of people moving to Florida. These are not only RVers. A couple of years ago I had never heard of The Villages. Now that I know what it is, I am astounded. And it is continuing to grow.
On the other hand, I have heard of people who tried to open new RV parks, paying thousands of dollars jumping through hoops to ultimately be told there is some obscure zoning issue.
Obviously, the popular areas are going to be booked in advance. The numbers of people who visit national parks is forcing them to come up with new options – such as no private cars in Zion during peak season. Not just an RV problem.
Not sure what the answer is. But, sadly, I don’t think this is unique to RVers.
As usual Chuck, you have hit the Rv nail right on the proverbial head! We’ve been in one Rv or another since 19-oh-my-God … (1979??) We now have a 2017 29′ 5th wheel & 2016 Ford f-250. In 2009 we took an 11 month jaunt cross country – great trip, but the planning was mind-boggling. We had to make reservations for every single stop. If I recall, the planning took almost as long as the the actual trip, if not longer – CRAZY!! This past year we took a 5-week getaway in Northern AZ, we just wanted to go one place and stay for the entire time. Finding an RV campground in the area to meet our needs was an exercise in terror – we finally found a place, it sounded wonderful, wound up being not so much, way over-priced and very disappointing. Yes, RVing sure has changed. But we’ll keep on trying … next time we’ll head over to Laughlin and gamble for a few days – at least at the Riverside you know what you’ll get.
Makes me very sad.
Great article Chuck. What we’ve noticed hasn’t changed is people still appear quite content to jam and cram themselves, kids, pets and relatives into smaller and smaller busier and busier “tourist destinations”. I say smaller not because they’re physically smaller but because these former places of solitude can’t accommodate, the hoards descending on them, they’ve run out of space.
A lot of what we notice is the contest, to see who can drive or pull the largest most unwieldy piece of equipment, into parks and campgrounds many designed in the 50’s and 60’s to accommodate 25 foot Airstreams & tent trailers.
We work at trying to avoid the high density areas, something in itself that’s becoming more and more of a problem too, as the yahoos who are not welcome in the cram and jams with their racket, move further out to the country to yahoo their heads off way into the night – most nights.
It sure isn’t like it used to be and I’m glad we lived in a more considerate time when getting out of the city actually meant getting away from “it all”