You bought a new RV and you got a great deal out of state. But now you have a few things wrong with it and so you take it to the corner dealership where you saw the RV the first time. Now they’re saying they won’t work on it. What’s going on? Are they trying to rip you off?
Actually, this is fully legitimate and well within the agreement between the manufacturers and the dealership. So what’s going on?
Understanding RV dealerships
When you go to a car dealership, that dealership is a franchise. That means that the franchisor, which is the vehicle manufacturer, can make demands on the dealership. In turn, they have to agree to the demand to be in compliance with that franchise agreement.
This can include things like signage, branding, having brochure racks in the lobby and also details about the service department. A vehicle manufacturer can demand that a franchise dealer have a specific number of certified service technicians. It can also demand that some, or all, of those technicians go through the manufacturer’s service training.
Nowadays, with customer ratings being more important than ever, it can also be the case that vehicle manufacturers require a dealership to maintain a certain rating with the customers as well.
Service training
Most vehicle manufacturers also have training and certification programs. We’ve all seen signs that read something like “factory authorized service” or “factory trained service” at a vehicle dealership. I don’t believe I’ve ever seen this at an RV dealership and, right now, it’s not likely that we will, either.
There are very few RV manufacturers that even have training programs. Further, some RV manufacturers don’t consistently build the products they sell us.
How are RVs built
RVs are built in different ways, but some manufacturers only have a general idea of how an RV is going to be made. It’s up to the workers on the line to flesh out those details.
For example, there are RV factories where there are huge spools of wire at the point on the line that the electrical is being installed. When they need to wire in a light fixture, a line worker will just pull enough wire to complete the task. Today they may have red wire with a white stripe. Then, after that spool is done, they may switch to blue wire with a yellow stripe.
So your RV might be wired with very different colors of wire from the one that followed it down the assembly line. That may also be somewhat true of plumbing. While some RV manufacturers are really consistent about how they wire and plumb their products, this isn’t universally true in the RV space.
In fact, one of the more unusual things I’ve seen on an RV assembly line is workers hand-cutting holes in floors, ceilings and even side walls for things like windows and doors, vents, and plumbing. It just boggles my mind.
When a vehicle is being built you can bet that the manufacturers very closely monitor every aspect of that build from the wiring to the number of screws being used. Much of that assembly is done by machines that very precisely repeat the same process over and over, day in and day out.
RVs are almost all built by hand
RVs are almost all built by hand and while they do use a lot of the same components, there are still a huge number of pieces that are built by human beings on the assembly line. In fact you see RV companies brag about this. But think about how much better automobiles became after the assembly line made production so much more consistent.
I recently talked with one marketing manager who said his RV company had almost 500 floor plans. This is just one of the many brands from a major name in the RV space who also owns many, many other brands. Imagine going into a car dealership and seeing 500 different choices of Chevrolets or Toyotas?
Dizzying diversity of floor plans
The dizzying diversity of floor plans including dozens of almost identical layouts that are built by differing brands held by a large company means there’s not often a lot of planning or design that goes into a floor plan. For example, Thor’s Jayco division might build almost the same floor plan as Thor’s K-Z or MPG divisions, but the three divisions are completely independent of one another.
Of course there are measurements and drawings of the units. But those planning documents don’t necessarily include where the wiring, plumbing, or other things go. This lack of wiring diagrams and specific plumbing schematics means that the tech at your local RV dealership might be spending as much time figuring out how a light or stereo is wired and what color wires are used in this RV as they are spending to actually repair an issue.
In fact, one of the issues our techs constantly complained about was the lack of available wiring and plumbing diagrams.
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Cost of warranty
A lot of the time spent on the warranty repair of an RV may be the tech just figuring out the wiring and plumbing or other aspects of how that RV was built.
When an RV dealership has a warranty claim, typically they figure out what’s wrong, take as many photos as possible of the offending pieces, and then submit the claim to the manufacturer. The manufacturer then evaluates whether the claim has merit and approves or denies the claim.
Part of that process is the dealership requesting reimbursement for time spent on making the repair. Most of the warranty repairs typically have an hourly time estimate assigned to them by the RV manufacturer. For example, if the tech has to replace a stereo, the manufacturer might include 20 minutes of time to do so.
Let’s say that you have a speaker that’s not working. The tech first spends time fiddling with the stereo to make sure that it’s set correctly, and then more time removing the speaker and testing the wires that lead up to it. Overall the tech may have spent an hour or more just figuring out that the speaker was bad.
Warranty guidelines from the manufacturer
The warranty guidelines from the manufacturer may only budget 15 minutes to replace a speaker. That means that the dealership could end up just “eating” all but 15 minutes of the tech’s time to facilitate that repair.
This is just one example. When I was facilitating warranty claims at a dealership there were times where it would take hours for the tech to even figure out what the issue was and then additional time removing the broken component.
Furthermore, not only did we pay the tech who facilitated the repair itself, the dealership also had to pay me to manage all these warranty claims. There was absolutely no accommodation in the reimbursement schedules of RV warranty departments for my time or for the time of whoever is administering the warranties at a dealership.
My time included not only handling the photographs and details of the warranty claim, but also, if there were parts involved, boxing up and shipping the failed components back to the manufacturer.
After we got the claim approved, we would have to order the new component, and the tech would then spend time putting that new component in. In the meantime, sometimes we’d have to store the owner’s RV while we were waiting for parts to arrive.
This was one thing in the days when parts were readily available. But as I write this, many parts are on severe back order so it can take weeks or even months for some parts to arrive at the dealership. And that’s assuming that the repair is even authorized by the manufacturer.
It’s not worth it
So, the bottom line on all of this is that warranty service at a dealership isn’t a profit center at all. Many dealerships only do the warranty service for customers who purchased their RVs there simply because it’s such a money losing proposition.
The shortage of RV technicians only compounds the problem. Your local dealership might only be able to find enough qualified technicians to barely cover the warranty claims from customers who purchased their RVs at the dealership.
Many times I had customers shop us and spend time with our sales staff, who were very well trained and educated, only to ultimately purchase their RV at a wholesale dealer a few hundred miles away. Now not only did we lose that sale, that customer also took time from the sales staff. Later they would return wanting us to do warranty work, which is typically done at a loss.
In this circumstance, which was common, we had no obligation to the customer to perform warranty work on their RV. Furthermore, our techs were so busy servicing the customers who did buy from us there just wasn’t time to service the RVs from people who did not buy from us. So we were within our rights to refuse to do warranty work on RVs that weren’t purchased from us.
But that’s not always the case.
Good neighbor policy
There were times when someone was traveling and had an issue that would force them to go back home if it weren’t repaired while they were on their journey. We took in a number of these people just so they could enjoy the remainder of their getaway.
Our practice was also to help folks who had moved into the area and discovered an issue with their RV. In fact there was such a housing shortage where the dealership I worked for was located, many traveling medical professionals and educators actually lived in their RVs because there weren’t enough houses available.
Again, we got a decent number of folks who simply took the time of our sales staff and then went a few hundred miles away to an RV discounter and bought from them. The funny thing is, we would have happily matched their pricing if they had given us the opportunity.
What can you do?
If you find yourself in the position that a local dealership won’t do warranty work on your RV, there are actually things you can do.
Knowing that there’s such a shortage of RV technicians and service people, some RV manufacturers are now authorizing independent service professionals to perform warranty work. You might contact the manufacturer of your RV and ask them where the closest RV service places are.
There are also occasions where an RV manufacturer may authorize a mobile RV technician to perform the warranty work. However, this isn’t always the case as mobile technicians often charge a significant fee just to show up at the door. You might work out with your RV’s manufacturer to pay for the cost of the technician to show up and then they reimburse that technician, or you, for the actual cost of the job that needs to be done.
Final thoughts
Lastly, there is something we all need to do. If you know someone who is relatively handy or has a good work ethic, you might advocate to them to look at a career in the RV industry. It may shock some of you to know that there are hundreds of thousands of RVs being built every year – but there are no more RV technicians out there today than were there ten years ago!
Being an RV technician is a great opportunity and is a job that does pay well. Learning the trade can happen at a local dealership. There are also training schools where someone can become certified in the trade and increase their earning power.
The RV industry also recognizes the issue and the RV Industry Association, or RVIA, has put together a school to train technicians. The cost of completing a certification program is probably lower than just the lunch privileges at a local college but could return a lifetime of income.
An RV technician brings joy to customers
An RV technician is a job that brings joy to customers because you’re saving people’s vacations and there is absolutely no shortage of work. Opportunities exist at dealerships and other RV service centers. And there’s also plenty of work for someone if they want to strike out on their own.
I have often said that if someone chooses this career path and gets certified and trained in the repairs needed, they can buy a van and put a magnetic sign on it and have so much work just by driving through an RV park that they’ll want to take that magnetic sign off now and then just to get a break.
Not all bad.
I also want readers to know that not all RV companies operate in the same manner. While I often come across people complaining about companies like Thor and Forest River, it’s important to know that these larger companies encourage their various brands to operate fairly independently and also to often compete with one another.
As much as I’ve seen RV companies operate willy nilly, I’ve also seen very precise and quality-oriented practices. I try to share what I know in my daily RV reviews here on RVTravel.com, including how a company handles warranty claims, if I have direct knowlege of that.
##RVT1030
After reading about an RV technicians job, the lack of support (financial/warranty and technical) from the manufacturers, the undermanning and resultant pressures and lack of training, I would not wish that job on my worst enemy! My son went to welding school 5 years ago and is making almost 6 figures now as he quickly moves up the skilla and responsibilities ladders. My nephew went to automotive service training with an outfit that supports NASCAR. He got scooped up by Mercedes in NC. In less than 10 years, he’s moved up the chain and is making ridiculous money. Plus Mercedes is a highly organized, profitable company with top notch cars and incredible manufacturer support for dealer techs. Why would I urge a bright young person to go work in the incredibly dysfunctional RV industry again?
45 years in the electrical industry and no wiring diagrams even the most complicated machine only show you where it starts and where it end not-which conduit or tray the wire is in. Only row houses have some semblance of a wiring diagram because they are all the same
Custom homes have no diagram
Don’t expect to see where a cable was run, as long as it gets there and things work
My issue with an Rv is poor connections that fall apart rather than where is the wire?
In 17 years of full timing I’ve never found a tech that was qualified to carry my tool box. Even in the beginning I would many times have to troubleshoot and prescribe the fix. Factory warranty shops would try to blow me off as “Couldn’t duplicate”. Go through a 2 week list in two hours. I learned to fix everything myself.
RV industry is the least efficient, most poorly trained, most overpriced I’ve ever been exposed to.
Would NEVER buy new again! HUGE waste of money and time.
“The funny thing is, we would have happily matched their pricing if they had given us the opportunity.”
That customer did give you the opportunity. But you elected to try and get as much money as you could, instead of offering a price that made you some profit but still offered the customer a good deal. Businesses have to make a profit. No one disputes that. The issue is, how much money is a fair profit, as opposed to trying to take as many dollars from a customer as you can. All of that said, I do agree that it’s wrong to buy cheaper somewhere else, then expect the dealer you didn’t buy from to do your warranty work. And we all know a new RV is going to need work, sadly.
This probably the 378th article I’ve read that convinced me to NOT buy a new RV. I’ll just stick with buying used and let someone else suffer through warranty issues.
Excellent, informative article! Thank you Tony for writing it and thank you Emily for re-running it. 🙂 We were driven by the Camping World of Chattanooga to take our first RV to the manufacturer for warranty work. Despite the great distance, we continue this practice. Approval for work and ordering of parts is much faster at the manufacturer. We also use a local (Northgate Parts) service company that only services/repairs RVs for extended-service-contract work. We go to a trusted mechanic for engine, chassis, and transmission work.
From a Plumber- If you did not buy it from me; get the company where you bought it from to honor his warranty. He marked it up when he sold it to you. Tell that to Home Depot/ Lowes and see how far that gets you.
I prefer to buy and have Home Depot install the product. I’ve found out over the years independent contractors are not reliable and many charge to much money. Some want just the easy quick jobs. Plumbers seem to be the hardest contractor to get in my area. Things have really gotten bad with contractors since the pandemic.
How does warranty issues work with dealerships that have signs saying “authorized (insert manufacturer name here) dealer”? Is this considered a franchise in the eyes of the law?
I would say “no”. The manufacturer has agreed to sell new units to that dealer, as opposed to a dealer buying units from an authorized dealer in a low-price market, then selling them at their dealership in a higher-priced market. The reseller would not be an authorized dealer. Neither is a franchise.
Great article, I did not realize that there may not be a standard schematics of plumbing and electrical for every RV made. That’s crazy!
When looking into who would service the RV we wanted to buy from 4 states away, is when we learned, the local dealer would not service, unless we bought from them. They did match the price!! They were great to deal with before and after the purchase.
I had a used Bounder that was not charging the house batteries while driving, the relay was working but no connection to the batteries. I called customer service to inquire about a wiring diagram and was told there isn’t my wiring diagrams due to the fact there were 3 teams doing the wiring and they do as they please as far as how they route the wiring. They said it was wired according to the schematic but how the current got from point A to point B was a mystery, I ran a new wire from the relay under the coach and up to the batteries.
That way, you know where the wire is, the color, and where it goes on both ends.
Thanks for this info. As an engineer, I understand the importance of having detailed drawings. Not only does it mean more consistent assembly, it makes it easier to spot problems before they escape to the customer
As you point out, this would also save time trouble shooting, and getting the correct parts by a local tech.
This makes me want to request plumbing and electrical diagrams for any unit I’m considering buying so I can vet manufacturers quality.
I feel like this is something that manufacturers should be able to supply. If they can’t, that’s a red flag.
Do your research, it’s not such a great deal if you now have to travel 4 states away to have warranty work done. We learned this 1 week before we were planning to pick up our New MH, 4 states away, and canceled the deal. They didn’t seem surprised when we told them why and they gave us our deposit back without any hassle. We then found a local mom-and-pop dealer 1 hour from home who matched the price. We had to order it and only took a couple of months longer at the time, pre-pandemic.
All RV’s have manufacturing issues and any brand CAN have a disaster happen on the road. However, it seems clear that the INCIDENCE of such disasters is much greater with some than with others. Just like with cars: you expect Toyotas to break down LESS often than Fiats. Perhaps the answer is to buy those that need less warranty work to begin with. The problem is that, unlike cars, more reliable RV’s usually cost significantly more. Therefore, people should understand that, for example, a 4-5 year old LTV, Coach House or Phoenix Cruiser (and other quality brands) may be a much better choice than a brand new, similarly equipped and similarly priced, Forest River or Thor product.
Phoenix sold. New builders rep has gone down hill. Max bucks is the new deal.
Excellent article! This was one of my main concerns when shopping for our diesel pusher motorhome in 2018. After several years of thorough research, I sent build sheets to 5 dealers across the country. All responded with quotes and the difference between the highest and lowest was only $5,000. When I visited our local dealership, they did not want to deal with a knowledgeable buyer and refused to give us a quote. We purchased from a dealer 2000 miles away and the deal couldn’t have gone smoother. When it was time for warranty work we called the service department of our local dealer. They were more than happy to address all our needs. Guess where we take our motorhome for our now out of warranty work and maintenance? Yes, the local dealer service department earned our continued business and loyalty.
“So, the bottom line on all of this is that warranty service at a dealership isn’t a profit center at all. Many dealerships only do the warranty service for customers who purchased their RVs there simply because it’s such a money losing proposition.” You took page after page of unrelated words to say this. egads.
My son worked for several car dealerships when he first started out. The warranty work there is paid at much lower rates than customer pay jobs. Because of this most car warranty work is assigned to the newer mechanics due to the lower pay rate. Experienced mechanics refuse to due warranty work. This article is right on in what they say about warranty claims. RV owners need to lobby their elected representatives to get legislation passed like car warranties. The other recourse is don’t buy new, buy a slightly used unit because your warranty is as useless as a piece of toilet paper.
Is that before or after it is used?
After
Generally speaking, warranty service is a losing proposition in all service industries. I think it would make more sense to do research, inspect, and then buy used from a private party with no warranty. If a repair comes up that you cannot handle, service centers are more willing to handle your problem. A healthy service center has a higher ratio of COD to warranty repairs.
Was Master RV Tech-Retired. I left industry because I would get call, diagnose issue, submit estimate, and then the customer says, Oh I will fix it myself. I should have charged them for my time, but I try to give more than I get, unfortunately, usually I would get stiffed. People want it for nothing, and do not want to pay, at least that is my experience. Yes, RV Tech is great job, but work for dealership and moonlight if necessary. Quality service techs are rare. And be specific on which systems you are going to service, i.e., Hydro-hot/oasis, Suburban furnace or all Attwood. More higher quality clients, and when heat is out, they want it fixed.
This story never ends. So, do this. Buy from whoever you like, and bank the savings in an imaginary accout. Then, when you need work performed, pay for it. Warranties vary, but most stuff is prety much out of coverage by the end of year two or three.
Then, do the math and see if it worked out for you. Oh, and one more thing, report back here when an article of this particular topic appears and we can all learn from the exercise.
The need for technicians is real. Unfortunately a lot of dealers don’t pay their techs very well despite charging upwards of $150.00 an hour. I went to a RV tech school in Texas in 2018 and started my own mobile repair service and have been flooded with work since. We do some manufacture warranty work, but not through them, we have the customer pay us and we give them a detailed invoice to get reimbursed by the manufacturer, most people don’t have a problem with it. The RV industry is self governed, therefore there is very little quality control in the manufacturing of these units.
Absolutely. It’s unfortunate but several people told me that they hired RV techs and then lost them shortly thereafter when the local fast food place offered them a better hourly wage.
That’s just bad decision making on the part of the RV dealership in my opinion. Pay them enough that they’ll want to stay and make the customers happy which then means the dealership also earns more.
Sounds too logical.
Great article. When I said pretty much the same thing on an “owners” forum I was lambasted by fellow members saying I didn’t know what I was talking about. This was over a safety recall. They were told that they would have to wait 3 months and their own customers got taken care of first. Having been involved in the car industry and knowing a family who owned a RV dealership, I was well aware of the differences. I just posted this week that dealerships had been fixing the build on RV for years.
We were told on our first RV, that only a Keystone trained person could fix our rig, that needed to be fixed due to Keystone put on wall on one of our water lines. We got lucky and found someone in NV. That’s why we never purchased an extended warranty. So wrong.
Keystone was/is able to pay ANYONE they want to do Warranty work on their behalf. It does not have to be a Keystone dealer. Remember there is No Franchise Agreement with the selling dealer and Keystone.
If Keystone chooses to use an independent tech familiar with their product to do a WARRANTY REPAIR on their behalf so be it. If the repair is approved as a warranty repair the manufacturer is paying the bill so they are going to have a say in who performs the work. Remember only the product manufacturer can legally give you a “Warranty”.
An “Extended Warranty” you purchase is a SERVICE CONTRACT NOT A WARRANTY. If you purchase one coverage DOES NOT activate/pay for covered repairs until Manufacturer Warranty runs out do to time or any other limiting EXCLUSIONS written in their Manufacturer’s Warranty.