EDITOR’S NOTE: RVtravel.com is regularly invited to participate in nationwide conference calls with large RV dealers and others involved in the sales and servicing of RVs. We won’t be directly naming those on the call, nor the dealerships involved. While the situation is unusual, we feel the value of the candid comments and information that we can share with you outweighs the lack of the usual attribution. This time, you’ll just have to trust us that the quotes come from trusted, vetted sources.
Longtime RVers have speculated for months that many of the millions of new RVers would soon tire of their new outdoor toy and put them back up for sale. Now we’re hearing that the long-anticipated flow of slightly used RVs back to sales lots may have begun.
“I’m getting phone calls from people who want us to buy their RV back,” said one RV dealer during a recent nationwide conference call of RV dealers and others connected with the RV industry. “We don’t know how many of those calls are coming from actual newbies, and we really don’t even know how many of our recent customers are new to RVing, but I’d guess about half of our customers are new.”
Why are the new RVers giving up?
Those on the call didn’t speculate as to what may be driving some new RVers to give up on the lifestyle. They may be exhausted from the effort involved to find available campsites in popular locations. They may also be disenchanted that they can’t seem to find the bucolic, secluded camping locations that may have drawn them to purchase rigs in the first place.
“There are definitely fewer first-time buyers lately,” said one dealer on the call.
On the upside for the RV industry, dealers said they are starting to see more experienced RVers return to dealerships looking to upgrade their equipment.
“I’m getting a lot more trade-ins,” said one dealer. “The rate of customers with trade-ins a few months ago was about 13 percent. Now, about 50-60 percent of customers have a trade-in RV. We are starting to see our core customers come back. We haven’t seen that in a long time.”
Traffic is great, inventory is not
One East Coast dealer said while traffic at his dealership was “great,” his inventory of RVs on the lot was about 40 percent of what it should be at this point in the year. “The product mix is all over the board,” he said.
Even with low inventory, the dealer said sales margins on rigs that do move are good. “Consumers are still willing to pay an awful lot,” he said. “But if there is a bump in the economy, it will be a different story.”
Many in the industry lamented the fact that wait times for factory deliveries of back-ordered RVs seems to be getting longer. “The good news is that retention rates after the sale are good,” said one. “People seem to be willing to wait.”
One New England dealer said while sales volume at his dealership was down 20 percent year over year due to a lack of inventory, his margins were more than double those of a year ago. “Everyone is making more money than before,” he said. “We just can’t get inventory.”
##RVT1018b
We keep hearing about dealers having to pass along price increases to the public, but here I’m hearing that margins are double. Doesn’t sound like just passing along price increases, sounds like some gouging going on when prices are up over 20%.
When I purchased new, I negotiated a reasonable discount off MSRP. It appears what has happened recently was they haven’t been lowering the price as much. That’s not gouging, it’s just getting retail price.
I anticipated this. RVs are last year’s toilet paper. Most will move on as the climate in the government now will push gas prices even higher and eventually the economy tank. Many new RVers also are struggling with learning what it costs to use and maintain these rigs. I would be hesitant to purchase these used units for fear of what had been neglected.
Don’t believe anything you read in these sites unless experienced first hand
Plenty of units a available
Support and service- road and dealer
Service WORST!
It’s all about promoting anything to do
with the industry
I expected this to happen. Going by FB posts in our group (15000 members), camping and RVing isn’t what the newbies expected. Add that to not being able to find spots and the rising costs of reservations and people are opting out. It also has to do with the required RV maintenance. New owners don’t realize they have to check the roof and some had no idea what the “pink stuff” is used for. Then there are some that don’t realize you need 120 volts for everything to work, like the TV’s. That starts at the salesmen and women just looking for a sale. PDI’s are unheard of at most area dealers.
Some of the questions on the FB sites are pretty funny….and who told them I’d plan their trip and pick their parks??
I was an OEM builder/manager for 35 years. I’ve been in service now for 5 years. PDI’s are not unheard of where I work. A good PDI should take 3-4 hours. That’s testing, cosmetic touch up, etc.. That time is essential to run furnace, AC etc to temperature and see it starts again to keep temperature as it should. Same as water heater. Has to run a couple cycles to ensure thermostat is working properly. With that being said..I won’t name OEM’s. But I haven’t recieved a unit in 4 months that I can put out saleable in less than 16 hours. They are not just a PDI anymore. They may as well be full blown service units. So many test failures you just accept and fix it. Dealers are doing PDI’s, but I believe the factories are not.
As far as full campgrounds..get real solar. Not just a very expensive battery charger. FSI in Elkhart, Indiana can serious deliver on off the grid solar to go wherever you can get to. You will have to wait to get it done, it won’t be cheap. But their attitude towards safety and quality are bar none. Tell them Jimmy sent you…
Inventory shortage and back orders, have been reading about it that manufacturers are in a pickle keeping up with demand….hmmm, yet already pushing the next years models. Wait a second, if you can’t produce the current year model to fill orders, how can you push the next new thing?
I’m sure there is price gouging going on just like other industries making up for profit loss from last years lock down. The gouging isn’t just at the price of whatever rig you want, it’s in the fees for this, that or the other…call it creative accounting, yet it’s still a pig with lipstick no matter what it’s called!
Good news. Too many RV’ers out there competing for too few campsites. Let’s hope this sell-off escalates into an avalanche. If it doesn’t, the RV experience will just continue to worsen.
Amen to that!!!
we need more RV parks from may to sept. in the Springfield MO. They are full
We recently sold our C class and did call several dealers. We weren’t opting out, we were upgrading, but when a couple of the dealers found out we weren’t buying, only selling. the offer either dropped or was withdrawn. We sold to a private party.
Good move. You probably got more from a private party buyer that you would have from a dealer ‘trade in value’
Not unexpected. Massive sales to newbies who ‘thought they’ll like it’, now they find the thing isn’t that much fun for them. Taking the payments, the rare times they can use it, the crowding at big name or popular campgrounds, large numbers are hanging it up.
Agree 100%. Not to mention the rising cost of fuel and everything else due to inflation.
Inventory is 40% of what is normal ???
That’s LAUGHABLE!
I do not know what RV dealership lots other than maybe his own that this dealer is talking about as ALL the RV dealerships (20+) that I have driven by in the last 2 weeks, stopped at and inquired about what they have available for sale are absolutely packed with new campers, trailers, motorhomes and hybrids ready to sell.
To say that the flow of newbies has slowed is the understatement of the week!
I am told the flow of new customers has almost stopped! The amount of those customers looking to sell their RV has increased dramatically in my local area.
Same sight during a recent trip to Atlanta down I24-I75. RV dealership lots FULL of ready to deliver RV’s.
Looks to “Me” like the RV industry in Elkhart is going to have plenty of time to address their horrible quality issues starting now, through 4th quarter 2021 and into 2022!
No wonder none of the dealers on this call wanted to “speculate” why so many are giving up!
There is no inventory shortage up in ID, OR, WA, MT. Every dealer we have been by , lots are loaded with inventory.
I wonder if it’s RVs for sale or RVs in for repairs. Either one would fill up a lot.
Most of the RV dealerships I drive by in Snohomish and Skagit Counties (WA) are using some very artful parking to make their lots appear full. Blade Chevrolet & RV was so stuffed three years ago, they couldn’t put the slides out on the Seneca we were looking at. A few weeks ago, they had every slide out, rigs parked almost nose-to-tail around the perimeter and older rigs (trades or repairs??) scattered around the interior of the lot. Haltermans RV has more 5’ers than anything, and those are stacked along the highway and city streets, but not along the sides facing adjoining lots. Similar situations exist at both Poulsbo locations (though they have more Class B’s and C’s than A’s) as well as Roy Robinson and Motor Coach Country. A lot of used inventory, possibly many in for work, but also a lot of bare pavement behind the curtains.
Quality control and Warranties are the major issues when talking to fellow campers around the fire… terrible that we pay so much for the rigs and spend a inordinate amount of time getting issues fixed…
You hit the nail on the head.
With ALL the first time buyers, how did they treat their RVs??? Little maintenance? The dreaded “poop mound” in the black tank from lack of knowledge and completely cleaning/flushing the system?
Biggest issue is dealers don’t want to be fair to us that want to trade in for a newer rig they sell high and give the lowest trade price. Example; My rig according to book is between 69 and 70,000 trade in.They will give me 50,000. You can’t tell me it dropped 69,000 in 5 yrs from what I paid.
They want (and need) to make a profit on the resale of the RV you turned in. That explains the difference between “book value” and what they are offering you. One option is to sell it yourself or put it in a consignment lot.
Depreciation on RV vehicles purchased new:
Year 1 20.5% off of original purchase price.
Year 2 23.25% off of original purchase price.Year 3 28.33% off of original purchase price.
Year 4 32.17% off of original purchase price.
Year 5 39.37% off of original purchase price.
See more at: https://camperguide.org/rv-depreciation/
You’re (extremely) lucky, that’s all it dropped.
Nothing surprising in this news — I’ve been anticipating this falloff in faddish, crowd behavior for a year and a half. At my age I’ve seen sooo blinkin’ many fads come and go, and the media make a big deal about each one, that I can see them coming from a mile off. It’ll be nice to see the nomad lifestyle return to “normal”…and see a political lobby develop to help protect RVer rights and interests.
Yep, Carson, Bell Bottoms didn’t last long either, nor Leisure Suits. They are finding out that everyone is not a REAL RVer. AND, that monthly payment is catching up with them too. But, gosh, it really sounded like fun at the time.
They’re giving it up because they realizing that these RVs are cheap built junk. And the dealerships take it inordinate amount of time to do any kind of repairs. Next step is to regulate the industry.
That is my suspicion as the main driver of getting rid of the money pits that were built with zero quality control, and that sit in the dealers repair lots for many months awaiting any action at all on repair. I suspect the scheme is to run out the clock on the warranty, The second is its very very difficult to get a site in a good park, These days everything with a dirt lot and an outhouse is called a RV resort.
I couldn’t believe it when I hear young people are taking out 15-20 year mortgages on an RV. No wonder after a year they find out that it depreciated more than the principal on the loan so they want a “do over”
Yes the depreciation is crazy and the price new is crazier. I bought 2000 used class C even if I have to fix stuff that’s nothing like the new price.
This is why people need to rent an Rv for a weekend before buying.
I would love it if half the people quit more space for us, its so oversaturated as it is thanks to all the YOUTUBERS making money off this endeavor.
Yes, blame it on the YouTubers making their pennies off of videos that help people figure this out. How is a YouTuber different than RVTravel writing articles? It’s the same thing.
My disgust and frustration is with dealer services!!! Bought a toy hauler (Momentum 29G) at Holiday World in Katy Texas in October 2020 – purchased some upgrades and left it for two weeks to have them added – when we arrived to pick up they supposedly had it ‘ready to go’ but had not added any of the $1500+ upgrades…. We pointed this out (yes, they did not realize they had not added…) and instead of them jumping right on to correct we had to sit in their waiting room about 8 hours waiting …
Then we found tear in couch… still waiting on that to be fixed…
Then the RV was stolen from storage lot… was recovered (thank you HPD) but was, of course, damaged …
been in shop over two months with no date for parts.., we sold house with plans to travel- those plans have been amended to flights snd hotels- much less stressful!!!!
I guess we’ll keep for now but in hindsight should have given back when we went to pick up and saw dealer had no respect for a NEW customer so definitely not later
Sorry to hear about your bad experience at Holiday World but I’m not surprised. Camping World is also horrific. We have a 29 foot Denali travel trailer and have had it serviced and repaired at Ron Hoover and have always been very happy with their service and quality of work. At least for my personal experience Ron Hoover was about the best around! Our travel trailer was damaged in the microburst out here in Sealy back in 2017 and require $10,000 worth of body work broken windows Etc they did an exemplary job!
One issue with “newbies” according to numerous post in FB groups I follow is maintenance and repairs, particularly “warranty” repairs are taking weeks and even months!
On the other end of the reasons, totally rediculously simple maintenance questions posted on FB groups from “newbies” from how to fill fresh water tank. To why can I not plug my RV into the electric drier outlet at my house?
“New” RV’ers (some old too!) are “identical” to people who purchase rabbits at Easter. Indeed, a collection of motley, naive, ******
We bought a used RV for one purpose….to get us and our 7 little dogs back to Tenn, where we are relocating from Oregon. I would never want to be a full time RV’er. We plan on making the trip back there and then selling. It’s a nice rig with only 17,000 miles and 2 hours on the generator. Minor repairs like changing the headlights to the newer LED ones and the indoor lighting, new locks on the storage bins, new hoses, etc. We’ll probably boondock the entire trip, if possible. She’s really nice and a good brand. Hope I can get some of my money back that we spent on her after we’re done! Wish us luck! It will certainly be an adventure!
I just left Nashville! I should have waited for you,
Price? Miles, Condition, Tires?
Where in TN do you consider settling?
If your looking at big city digs, I suggest not.
Crime seems to be a lot more prevelant.
East is hit by hurricane results.
Middle of State is better.
If your rigs in good order I could be interested, gonna sell my 112 acres w/ house/garage/shop .
was an OEM builder/manager for 35 years. I’ve been in service now for 5 years. PDI’s are not unheard of where I work. A good PDI should take 3-4 hours. That’s testing, cosmetic touch up, etc.. That time is essential to run furnace, AC etc to temperature and see it starts again to keep temperature as it should. Same as water heater. Has to run a couple cycles to ensure thermostat is working properly. With that being said..I won’t name OEM’s. But I haven’t recieved a unit in 4 months that I can put out saleable in less than 16 hours. They are not just a PDI anymore. They may as well be full blown service units. So many test failures you just accept and fix it. Dealers are doing PDI’s, but I believe the factories are not.
As far as full campgrounds..get real solar. Not just a very expensive battery charger. FSI in Elkhart, Indiana can serious deliver on off the grid solar to go wherever you can get to. You will have to wait to get it done, it won’t be cheap. But their attitude towards safety and quality are bar none. Tell them Jimmy sent you…
We are currently on our last trip and about to start home. Crowded campgrounds, rude neighbors, and barking dogs have taken their toll. Our 3 year old travel trailer is starting to fall apart as well. Fortunately the resale value is more than we paid for it.
It was a different world back in 2016 when we started rving. Our first circumnavigation around the US was awesome. Since then it has gotten worse every year.
Agree 100% with the idea that new peeps should rent a rv first before buying one. We were all new at this at some point, but in those days we would ask for help with fellow campers. Why tie up critical towing service companies with mundane simple issues? I think that in two years the used market will be huge.
Many ‘new’ to RVing have prior experience as for the ‘camping experience’…they went as kids, camp with friends/family etc, and now want their own. Many were sitting on the fence until the decision became easier when the stupid Covid hit. Nobody rents a car before buying one. There’s nothing wrong with renting one before buying, but for one thing it’s very hard to find a towable camper to rent, and most don’t want a motorhome, which are easier to find as rentals. As far as the used market being ‘huge’ in a year or two, I disagree, though I hope you’re right! I think people have seen how fun and cheap RVing is compared to hotels and cruises etc and are here to stay. Some will bail, but I fear most will stay having inadvertently ‘discovered’ our ‘secret’ passion.
I was going to rent first but it is very expensive plus you pay per mile after 100 miles and most rentals are not close by. I just bought a used 2000 class C and it’s a lot to learn. You can’t learn that fast just renting. It does suck that everything is booked months in advanced. We have a campsite very close by that we are going to rent a few days during the week just to learn hooking everything up.
It’s the end of the summer. Are they really surprised first-time RV buyers are down? In order for there to be some huge surplus in used RVs, there has to be a return to a normal level of used RVs. Dealers are nowhere near that. I’ve been tracking the daily amount of used RVs available on RVTrader, and it’s up about 20% from two months ago, which seams about right for end of the season. Definitely nothing crazy. Long-time RVers need to stop being curmudgeons and realize some people chose to do this. Lots of people planned to do this. There was a mass-retirement of boomers over the last couple years. Work-from-anywhere is more possible, and lots of people began homeschooling. America just saw a sea-change in lifestyle, and we better get used to it and build infrastructure to handle it. These RVers aren’t going anywhere. People should quit assuming this lifestyle is only for them.
They meant buyers are down during this time of year compared to previous years, but agree that the true ‘buying season’ is in the spring/summer time. Also agree that those new to camping are, for the most part, here to stay! I’m tiring of all this unsubstantiated speculation. You’re exactly right, this lifestyle doesn’t belong to just one group! I think (from all the newbies I’ve spoken to and read in forums, Facebook groups etc) about 90% of newbies are here to stay! They have realized camping is fun and MUCH cheaper than a cruise, trips to Disney, and MUCH cheaper than a hotel for the family when they go out of state to visit family, friends or vacation. I’d love to be wrong about this, but I believe that campsites being harder to find and more expensive is here to stay. Thanks, Covid.
1) buy used
2) buy quality…we own a 2008 Arctic fox…looks new
3) be “handy”…all RV work can be done by you…read, read, read…you tube handy too. (I do avoid working on engines).
4) convert or add on solar…boondock
5) stay as small as possible
6) hope this helps
Tom, I agree with most of what you’ve said. Remember that everything is easy when you know what to do.
Not everyone is handy or has the capability of fixing their own rigs. That’s why there’s RV shops and mechanics to work on vehicles.
You’re absolutely right… smaller is better. And getting solar panels on my RV was one of the best investments for enjoying the rig.
Small is better because over time fuel is the most expensive thing you put in your vehicle… think about 18 to 20 MPG compared with 5 to 7 MPG…. this is a very significant difference. When you start driving and traveling, the cost per mile is astronomical especially with the rapid rise of fuel.
Thank you!!! Correct in so many ways. I’m a boomer so only retired in 2019. I have as much right to the joys of rving as anyone else. We love it, love it! We have traveled mostly in the West and have never had problems finding overnight or longer camping sites. Spring and fall are especially nice times to travel before and after the peak vacation time. We have even done some over nighters on parking lots, etc. Fuel is higher now but it’s been high before. A thing called supply and demand has always been a factor and prices for all commodities will continue to cycle as will RV prices. We are going to continue to RV as long as our health allows.
We looked at buying one, But the prices the dealers were asking were too high and every single new unit we looked at had several defects new from the factory. So we are taking a wait and see. I’m hoping we can get a slightly used one in the near future where someone has already put the work into making it right.
Nick- I have a nice 36’ rig but no time to use. If interested reply & can tell you more. Location is Boston, MA
Need to talk. What kind of rv
Fuel prices are up, camp sites are up,cost more to stock your camper. Can’t get parts, hell the list goes on and on. If something doesn’t change I think the RV industry is in for troubled times. I’ve already cut way back on what we’ve done in the past.
Another reason for getting out of RVing is the terrible, terrible quality of RVs of all types.
Yep!! Been RVing for 50 years. The quality the last 10 years is absolute junk.. Sold mine and ” roughing it” happily.
RV’s made today are outrageously expensive junk. RV service is months of waiting with no to bad service. My only hope is for more weekend/online classes for RV/van builds/conversion to go mainstream. Maybe if we take RV’s into our own hands (surely not for all), quality and resale will bring RV joy back to the people! Tiny home builders are you listening?
I have had my Dutchstar in a repair shop since January and I am waiting for the parts To be found and delivered. In New Mexico. I call and get same story. Because of Covid parts can’t be found.going to see if they will do all the work except for replacing the jack. Living out of a motel for 3/4 of the year is really really tore up my bank accounts. Don’t know what else I can do.
Skoolies ( bus conversions ) are busy busy busy.
Supply and demand. Campsite fees will follow the trend down with reductions in RV’ers and the glut of pre-owned RV’s will soften sales for a while, but it will equalize. I suspicioned spiking RV sales would soften but thought we’d at least ride it out into next year. I think maintaining an RV was much more challenging for those unfamiliar with the ownership duties and life style choices.
People are back to work, now they have to look at the bank loan due every month for the next 15-20 years they were sold on by “those dealers quoted above saying everybody’s making money”! The 38% of millennials that are have bought last year, or are buying this year according to some studies are finding out they don’t have the time or job flexibility to use that huge dust collector in the driveway.
Compound that lack of time to use with the startling lack of quality from the mfg’s. and even worse lack of service from the dealers and there may be a tsunami brewing in the industry that will quickly solve all inventory shortages being experienced today.
I told my son who was shopping for a late model used class C, wait a year or two and you’ll probably save $5-$10K over todays jacked used rig pricing.
Exactly. Wait two years or buy something 5 years old
Sales down 20% but making as much money as ever tells you exactly how much they’re jacking prices.
Rvs are overpriced due to the pandemic hype — a big price correction will likely occur in the next 12 months.
They’ve always been overpriced. Every unit has a markup almost double what it costs to build.
my 2018 Cougar by Keystone has been repaired for a faulty furnace part, leaking water lines, and now the floor in the bedroom is rotting. Junk, Junk!
That’s the big issue right now. An article I read talked about everything coming out now is trash for varying reasons. So much demand they are rushing and people building them are mostly newbies and have no idea what they are doing and with such a high demand quality control is non existent. The long term rv association rep said point blank do not buy a néw rv right now. As he said and i quote. “ they are junk”.
So what about the returns? I didn’t open this article because I wanted the footnotes on an rv dealers conference call. What ever happened to the returns?
The largest volume seller of rvs in country is just 20 minutes from me. Seriously. 8 years in a row. 6 of there sales people have been physically attacked in last year. I know because my nieghbor is one and was in hospital for 2 days. I’m serious it’s bad. People will punch your lights out in Texas you rob them of 100 grand and don’t make it right quick. That’s just how it is. People still live by there word here especially the over 50 crowd. All this talk is legit and true. It’s actually worse than the articles stats.
When you trade it it means you’re upgrading not getting out of it. When trade INS were 13% that was the in rush of new people, now half of those people are realizing the one they bought isn’t right for them and they’re trading it in. Sorry this guise of an article to make you think you’re used camper is worth less than it actually is isn’t fooling anyone
This story is a bit early. This will happen for real in months ahead. RVs have always been white elephants.
That 2 year old class B with 5000 miles on it? It’s worth about $30k. That’s it’s core worth. They are hugely expensive to own if your not a capable mechanic who does a lot of your own work.
If you owe over 100k then your going to have to eat it.
That’s straight up
It’s a gonna get bad. Really bad. RV dealers and factories will be bankrupting by the thousands. RVs will be in foreclosure and unsellable.
Give it another year. Then, if you are a person who actually will use an RV, you can pick up a foreclosure. Know that it will not have been taken care of… So better be a mechanic. For real.
No garage wants to work on RVs. Especially not now. You will not be able to get something as simple as a starter replaced without months of waiting. I would not take them into my shop, were I in the business. Too much t
The outdoors in a machine is a tool using hominoids world.
That’s why my RV was only 15K used, and is now [PAID] for. I knew it was a depreciating asset, but SHTF scenarios are getting frighteningly real at this point.
People are fed up with the quality issues that come with the last 5 years of manufacturing. I own a 2017 jayco travel trailer rocky mountain and its been the worst investment I’ve made. What a piece of crap. Been in the shop more than the road. Then you have to deal with the rv service which wants 249 bucks an Hour to fix items that should be covered. I love rving just not the hassle of owning one. Also prices at rv resorts are getting way out of hand. Cheaper just to drive car and stay. Imoho.
Is Jayco known for quality, or price?
Jayco has one of the best reputations in the industry for engineering, assembly, pdi and after sale service. Post warranty service can vary from dealer to dealer. If you want confirmation, watch any Haylett RV YouTube vlog on any Jayco product. You cannot get a higher recommendation than one from Josh Winters. He doesn’t pull punches.
Jayco USED to be a well made unit, NOT SO any more. IT is part of the THOR ownership now and now Jayco and Keystone and about 11 other companies owned by THOR are coming through for the most part with many defects. It is very sad to see a brand name go down the tube due to lack of workmanship and pride in work from the number of complaints.
While my wife and I are not superstar RVers by any means, we have slept in our travel trailer five hundred and thirty six nights, and traveled over 31,000 miles in our East Coast journeys from Florida to New York in the last eleven years. And we can tell you why we have traveled only once in the last year and a half, and not in the last eleven months. Simply put, we have no place to go.
We still have our twenty-one foot Sportsmen trailer parked nearby and keep it in tow-ready condition. Unfortunately, we haven’t found a place to tow it to. We aren’t into the expensive, sardine-can commercial layouts where you sneeze at ten o’clock at night and forty-two people around you say “Gesundheit.” We camp to escape the crowds, not to be part of them.
Being over 65 years old gives us a financial break when staying at federal campgrounds such as the great US Army Corps of Engineer campgrounds – open to everyone – and many state parks, but they are filled from now until the end of next year.
“Amen” and “amen” again, George. I have the impression that “newbies” are becoming disenchanted with the new “normal” of not finding satisfactory places to either sleep or stay-awhile. It’s changed old-timers who loved the freedom of not hearing anything when sleeping and of saying “Oh, let’s stop here.”: That’s what RVing is all about, to me.
I’m relatively new (only 4 yrs in my first RV) and it’s turning into madness. I am fairly spontaneous and don’t make hardcore plans weeks (let alone months, and even years) in advance. It’s next to impossible to reserve a spot on the fly. Anywhere at any cost. I guess I’m going to have to adjust how I travel if this is the new normal. I do not enjoy how things are transitioning.
That’s funny. RV transporters are slower than ever. And wow at the markup on units, I would never purchase one.
One New England dealer said while sales volume at his dealership was down 20 percent year over year due to a lack of inventory, his margins were more than double those of a year ago. “Everyone is making more money than before,” he said. YA that is because the dealerships are charging all outdoors for these rigs to people who are new to the hobby and ripping people off!!! SHAME on the dealers for doing this but no surprise really. Also the crap that is being manufactured today it is no surprise that people are coming in to get it bought back and not wanting to buy anything else, they got a snoot full of junk being sold today. I just sold my 2002 Fifthwheel and it was in better condition than any fifth wheel sold today that I have seen, and I still own a 2003 Newmar motorhome and would not sell for $200,000 I was offered believe it or not. YES it is a 2003, in GREAT shape and is a gas engine with about 60,000 miles on it. A newbie offered me $200,000.
THAT says it all.
Hmm, I don’t know what model you have? I presume that it’s a diesel pusher and I’m sure it’s beautiful, but, if it were me….I would have gladly taken the money they offered….. for a 2003…..
I guess it really depends on the model and how you use it?
No matter how you look at RVs, they are a rapidly deprecating asset… they do not appreciate like older homes.
In my opinion…low mileage like your 60,000 miles matters less than the age of the vehicle. My 2 cents.
I just re-read your original post.. and see that you have a gasoline engine…..
If someone offered me that kind of money ….I would have definitely taken it…
As a retired long-time RV owner with good planning and mechanical skills, beginning with tent campers to a very large diesel pusher and now to a 2021 32 ft gas motorhome, I have not been surprised at the negative comments regarding poor quality,service, RV resort issues and fuel prices. Although my wife and I have been very happy and satisfied with our new Forest River FR 30 DS puchased from Lazydays in Oct. 2020 for price, service, features and few minor repairs in the 10,000 miles and two major and several minor trips this past year, I am surprised that few, if any, negative comments I have seen deal with, what are our recent major complaints, which are the condition of our major highways and the much larger amount of big rig truck traffic and the speed at which they are driving these days. I am a very healthy senior and an experienced RV driver and have to think of how new RV owners are dealing with these two issues in addition to the other negative industry issues they face.
We so agree with you. The state and condition of our roads is awful. The potholes shake the heck out of your rig. People drive way too fast and don’t respect one another on the roads. If everyone just showed a little courtesy our travels would be much safer and enjoyable.
We’ve been RVing for almost 50 years, but since the Pandemic started we’ve not done any at all, first due to all the lock-downs, then newbie “Covid Campers” flooded the campgrounds as the only outlet for vacation or entertaining the cooped up kids. Our RV is parked for the time being, maybe in 2022 or 2023 things will right itself again when the Covid Campers figure out they can travel again at will and owning an RV is a big financial and maintenance investment for something that will sit in their driveway or storage yard. I think the novelty is already wearing off for the Covid Campers and we’ll see many more “For Sale” signs on RVs over the next 24 moths.
We bought an old motorhome seven years ago for $300, fixed a few things, and have enjoyed it with no major problems. Last year I was offered a lot more than I had into it, $5K. I asked the person why they offered so much for a 43 year old unit that wasn’t in the greatest of shape. His reply was “back then they were simple and well made, not like some of the overpriced junk that always needs something repaired/replaced. I want something we can use, not to park at a repair shop”. That’s why I kept it.
Bob, I guess it really depends on what “older motorhome” you’re talking about.
If you’re talking about a Prevost, yes, I can see how well they’re made, but, finding parts for anything 40 plus years old unit can be extremely challenging…. plus, fixing anything this old is going to be insanely expensive.
A 40 years old Winnebago is still an old coach and it doesn’t have the modern safety features like the newer ones today. You can’t put a price on safety.
Plus, newer units will certainly get better fuel economy.
Remember that over time fuel is one of the most expensive things you put in any vehicle….
I was a tent camper for many years starting as a boy scout in a pup tent and then many years later with a wonderful LL Bean full stand up head room tent with a floor and screen room front “porch”. Retired at age 60 and bought my first Rv. A 30ft 5th wheel plain Jane basic unit. As new rvers we headed out on our fantasy trip from our home in Florida on a 2 and a half month journey to every state west of the Mississippi. And saw most of the big name national parks and lots of smaller ones too. There were few crowds back then and no problems finding nice camp sites. Things began to change long before covid. Covid just made things worse. In 2002 a nice camp sight with full hookups cost 30 to 40 a night. Even close to Glacier, Yellowstone or Grand Canyon. Our second rv was a bigger 5ver. Our third and 4th rvs were Motor Homes. the last being a 38ft nice quality home on wheels. We sold that in 2016. Prices to stay in popular locations were already getting high and crowded.
Oh, we now have an extended 1 ton high top 11 passenger van that I converted to a camper. Total cost about 15k total. Lots of free or low cost sites. Fully self contained prefer spring and fall trips when it is easier to travel.
My opinion, RVing is a wonderful, relaxing way of life. OR it should be but lately it is more heartache with buying new or almost new rigs that are falling apart as you drive out of the dealers’ lots. People are buying them dreams of traveling our beautiful country and seeing all that it has to offer in sights and adventures. Instead, they are seeing more of the inside of repair shops of dealerships or on the road shops due to defects of manufacture and lack of good workmanship with their new rigs. Such things as slides that fall out, or will not go out or come in, furnaces that will not light, roofs that leak from day one, roofs that were not sealed out of the dealership day one which means was not sealed at the factory and has been soaking up rain since day one, axles that are defective, electrical system problems and even fires, propane system problems and leaks and I could go on but these are how the rig is delivered to the customer on day one. Shame on the dealerships!!
Don’t blame the dealer. They can only sell what is provided to them. If anything, blame the manufacturer for building shoddy products. They turn out vehicles so fast to keep up, there is no quality check before leaving the factory.
I blame the consumer. If buyers would educate themselves and “kick the tires” before plunking their money down on social media driven pipe dreams, a lot fewer dealers would be able to get away with passing on the junk they get from sloppy RV manufacturers. I doubt our grandparents would have been as gullible buying RVs as today’s consumers are…
WRONG, the dealership should be checking out the rig before delivery and making sure all systems work, the roof is totally sealed up and no defects that they can find are present when the customer is taking delivery. AND if there are serious defects found, the dealer should not accept the delivery and turn it back to the manufacturer!!! WHAT is coming back to these dealers are mostly defective rigs that people are sick of, and these dealers are going to perpetrate onto new customers. Dealers are totally at fault for allowing people to buy defective rigs. Dealers are responsible to inspect merchandise to make sure it is not defective before it is sold, these dealerships are not doing so, THEY ARE RESPONSIBLE.
Agreed as a seller you are responsible for quality of the product you are selling or you are equally a con it’s wrong to sell a defictive product if you sell a heater that starts a fire because it’s defective and someone is killed you are responsible
After all your supposed to get a Warranty right then you need to honer. It
I’d like to upgrade, but there’s no way I’m going to purchase a new RV that will turn into a dinosaur if this administration pushes through their green new deal boondoggle.
The President of the United States doesn’t set fuel prices….as a point of information, some of the highest prices during the George W. Bush tenure in 2006….
As far as electric vehicles are concerned…you should be glad they are here because it will make more oil reserves available for internal combustion engines. Oil is not an infinite resource and while it takes energy to produce electricity, a lot of this power comes from hydroelectric power and solar.
This is the 21st Century, it’s a good idea to be open to all sources of energy. It’s not just a single source.
The “green new deal” is a blueprint for the development of alternative power and address climate change. Just look around and you can see climate change is everywhere… That’s why the polar ice caps are melting… It’s really happening…. this is a serious situation…..
Finally, everyone knows that RVs use a lot of fuel. That’s why I purchased a Class B Mercedes Benz Sprinter with a small 3 litre turbo diesel that gets 18 to 20 MPG on the road.
If it were not for range problems, I would welcome an electric RV… Heck, they now make an electric Sprinter… it’s sold in Europe. They will eventually expand the range….A few cars now can go over 300 miles on one charge.. And, they are looking at developing electric trucks on the highway… it’s coming……
I have little sympathy for people who purchased a gas guzzling 6 MPG rig knowing that they are hauling their entire house around with them and are now complaining and looking for someone to blame. People, that’s your choice, no one else. I understand that the large Class A coaches are beautiful and offer a lot of space and amenities. If I need extra space, I just stay home.
We don’t live in our motorhome, we live out of it. And, I would never consider being full time. They break down too much.
Yes, it can be very relaxing or not… depends on equipment failure and it’s definitely happened to us. That’s why…I tell people sometimes “RV” stands for “ruined vacation”.
Your mileage and experience will vary…. stay safe and good luck.
I’ll start with it’s never a democrats fault.. the President has a significant amount of control over the the price of fuel.
Kurt,
We live in a capitalist economy; and it’s supply and demand that controls prices.
Just recently President Biden has tapped into some of the “oil reserves” to mitigate the situation and increase supply, but, that’s all he can do.
People really traveled a lot this past summer and more driving equals more demand and consumption of fuel.
Also, I’d like to point out that there’s a special blend of fuel in California and other states where fuel is more expensive to deal with air pollution. Air pollution in California for example has greatly decreased since the 1960s. This is partly due to the fuel blend and catalytic converters and better technology.
Fuel in Oklahoma and Missouri is at least $1 or more LESS expensive… Fuel in those areas are under $3 per gallon.
Fuel pump prices are very dynamic and set by companies and local suppliers.
In the middle of the Mojave Desert, I saw a gallon of unleaded fuel selling for $6.39 per gallon….
Gasoline fuel prices depend on research and development, refinery costs and transportation to local gas stations.
So, aside from tapping “oil reserves”…. what exactly are you talking about when you said that Biden had “significant control”?
When George W. Bush was in office back in 2006…. diesel fuel was $6 per gallon…. and gasoline was around $5…..
I don’t recall what he did, but, it didn’t make a significant difference then either.
That was 15 years ago…..by the way…. and inflation alone has a tremendous impact on prices…. people easily forget that in 1970 gas was around 50 cents per gallon…. that’s 3.81 cents today.
Petroleum is a finite resource… this is why there’s so much interest in developing alternative sources like hydroelectric, solar, wind and nuclear power….
Sure, there’s places where you can find coal burning plants but they are dwindling… the air pollution in these places are not good for the environment.
It’s a problem for all of us on the planet…I won’t live long enough to see this resolved…. A lot of other people won’t either, but, we have to start somewhere. All of this activity is part of the reason we’re seeing climate change and the warming of temperatures…. it’s all connected, in my opinion.
I don’t know if you or many of the other people who have commented realize that if something is not done to reverse this trend soon polar bears will be extinct…. the polar ice caps are melting very quickly…..
I hate to bring this up, but, Al Gore was right 21 years ago…..his book “An Inconvenient Truth” was absolutely correct…. Climate Change is real!
I hope it’s not too late to reverse this very dangerous hole we find ourselves in today……
At least Biden is trying to get a handle on this and make constructive changes… with alternative power, infrastructure and rebuilding the USA….
The foreign wars of the past two decades have spent trillions of dollars for what?
Answer……”Nothing”
Very sad…..
Al Gore …… sad that anyone would believe anything that he would write about. It is amazing how they can tell everyone that Climate change is real and how the earth will be destroyed in 10 years or less then come up with a 12 year plan to fix it Wake up see the bs your being feed. Maybe by not shutting down pipelines and not banning coal gas wouldn’t be so high
BUT what do I know I drive a class A
It’s really interesting how there are so many climate change disbelievers. My own father was one of those disbelievers as well. With all due respect to him and may he rest in peace but I am not one of those disbelievers. I also do own a class “A” motorhome so I am just as guilty as anyone, but I am also aware that the changes to our earth’s climate is not a natural phenomenon and that this is in fact caused by man-made greenhouse gases. If the cycle of the earth’s heating and cooling is a natural occurrence, then how is it that the glaciers are melting? The glaciers have withstood the test of time with the exception of the past ten years. What do you think that they are just going to magically reappear again? No sir they are not!! The damage is permanent as well as to the wildlife affected by the disappearance of the glaciers, it’s called extinction.
Anna, I agree with you completely; that’s exactly what Al Gore told people in 1999 and 2000…..An Inconvenient Truth….this is no joke, unfortunately, there’s a lot of tone deaf people out there who refuse to hear it. It’s so gradual that the only time they’ll notice is when it’s gone and by then it will be too late. I’m afraid that it might well be already and sadly we probably will see the extinction of polar bears….many people just won’t care…. and this is very sad…… It goes far beyond the polar bears I’m afraid….. We’re ruining the rainforests in the Amazon and plants are not lungs of the Earth….I know many people are going to rail against this, but, we’re all to blame… I recently challenged a friend of mine asking ….”are you going to start being a vegetarian now”? Because, the raising of cattle and all the methane gas is causing environmental problems…. This actually might be a larger issue than internal combustion engines.. .
Look, there’s no one solution to any of this and most of us won’t live long enough to see the solution….I know I won’t.
People don’t like change….. that’s it… and telling them they are contributing to the problem will only dig in deeper. Why I decided to get an RV I wanted something small…. So, we got a campervan with the highest fuel economy… I’m not perfect….I know it’s a tradeoff. We take trips and live full time at home.. There’s no way I would ever live full time in any RV no matter how large or small it was.
I can’t believe people who actually like doing this. They are constantly on the road or living in a static place like Quartzite for 6 months…. and they have limited access to medical care….
When you get older having abundant services and easy access to medical care and hospitals is very important.
Just my opinion.
Opinion 1) an expert, formal judgement based on experience, training, and education. 2) an uninformed utterance.
The oil the President took from the reserve, the 50 million barrels is what the industry calls sour crude that refineries in the US will NOT buy as it takes too much energy to refine to our pollution standards ALL of it was sold to China and India because they don’t care what they burn or how it pollutes.
We need understand that shutting down oil fields and all natural gas in this USA so we can beg the Russians and opec to pump more oil to help our energy problem which was created by mr.Biden decision making ,I can’t imagine how short our memory has been.or what we will believe in the name of Climate Change
If releasing some of the reserves is ” all the President can do”, how in the world did we ever achieve energy independence and prices half of what they are now under President Trump???
As far as global warming, in the 1970s the scientists were saying we were all going the way of the dinosaurs in the next ice age that was on its way.
Might want to check with Texas about how well those alternate forms of energy work during ice storms.
BTW, that smartphone or laptop or whatever you’ re spouting your self righteous wisdom from is composed of petroleum derived plastics and chips mined from minerals. Its assembled in a factory overseas, loaded onto a ship or plane that burns fossil fuels, sent half way around the world. From its entry point, its then moved via train or 6mpg diesel guzzlers to its final destination, before being delivered into your tree hugging granola crunching hands.
Speaking of granola, I suggest you font even attempt to contemplate the amount of finite fossil resources used in the production, processing, and transportation of your ( most likely) organic gluten free paleo plant based lifestyle. Facts dont compute well with sound bites. Acceptance of reality may lead to a dangerous condition known as logical reasoning and critical thinking, which is heavily frowned upon in politically correct circles.
Bethany, they’ve worked had to fool citizens enough to believe we achieved energy independence under Trump. Nonsense. Oil and gas are world markets and the US absolutely kept buying and selling energy through out his administration, as one Trumpy writer above pointed out, that’s not about to end.
Please, for the sake of our nation’s future, really work to source your news and reading more broadly. It will likely pain you to listen to NPR or read the Washington Post, but trust me, you will survive. Yes, I’ve listened to folks like Limbaugh, Carlson and Dobson. They are using you. Unlike in Russia, we have a choice to not eat up the authoritarian “conservative” party line.
NPR and Washington post ? That explains it. Lol. The sheep will never learn.
I continue to thank you.
Mark,
Thanks for trying to add some sanity to this discussion. Its clear some folks cannot even give a fair listen to reason. Fox News has been a very sad “entertainment” for too many in our nation.
Yes, let’s take the fully recyclable gas-driven car and put in a power source that can’t be recycled. Then let’s kid ourselves that the electricity we use to charge that car comes out of thin air. Let’s also pretend that the cost of electricity won’t skyrocket once everyone starts pulling off the grid.
Get used to those rolling blackouts when you need to get to work. Living in an apartment complex is going to be a lot of fun, and if you are one of the many people who need to park on the street you’re screwed. I can’t wait to see how that works in NYC with its alternate side parking!
Not everyone can afford a Class B, by the way. The $100k saved by driving that old rig will buy a lot of gas, even at 6mpg. The virtue signaling loses clout when you factor in the environmental benefits of not manufacturing a new vehicle.
Donna,
There’s certainly a long way to go to “level the playing field” and people living in an apartment complex are going to be challenged to charge up their electric cars….
I’m seeing a lot of public charging stations going up in the city and many employers are now installing charging stations.
It’s true that $100k will buy a lot of gas, but, over time fuel is the most expensive thing you put in any vehicle. So, as the price increases, the length of time gets shorter to reach that $100k ….at $5 per gallon and 6 MPG…. you’d spend that $100,000 in just 120,000 miles…. that’s a lot of money…..
At 18 MPG going the same distance of 120,000 miles and $5 per gallon.. your fuel cost would be $33,500
Not to mention that electric cars are way less expensive to maintain… their MPG equivalent is close to 80 to 100 MPG in the cost……I know people who have electric cars and they have concluded that the cost is 5 cents per mile.
It’s true that I have a Class B Sprinter, but, let me tell you it’s pretty expensive to maintain… heck, I’d love to have an electric Sprinter… they sell them in Europe….
I figured my cost for fuel is at least 25 cents per mile…… your RV getting 6 MPG is costing 75 cents per mile…or more depending on road conditions…. that’s WHY you see so many vehicles like this with “low mileage”…. people just don’t want to drive them anywhere….
I initially thought about getting a Class A motorhome… they are beautiful, lots of space and amenities…. but, I thought… I’ll never be able to take it out on long distance trips…..
At least with my Sprinter I’ve taken two cross country trips and it was great….
As far as keeping a vehicle for a long time….I completely agree with you…
People often trade in their vehicles every few years…. for whatever reason… it’s ridiculous and the most expensive thing you can do…..
All of my vehicles are over 10 years old and I usually keep them for 15 to 20 years… it’s the only way to get the maximum value from any large purchase….
Trading in for a new model, in my opinion, only makes sense for better fuel economy, performance, and safety….
Electric cars and trucks are definitely coming… and the technology for developing the grid for the infrastructure is coming too…. you’ll see…
It’s not immediate, but, we have to start somewhere.
Gas wasn’t that expensive until biden was sworn in and started shutting down pipelines. By the numbers in this newsletter gas is now over 58% higher than before biden was inaugurated, how do you not associate that with biden? Global warming? As a senior citizen I recall back in the 70’s we were headed for another ice age because of GLOBAL COOLING! A very well respected climatologist then explained the earth goes through a 100 year cycle of heating and cooling. It will heat up for about 50 years then start cooling off for 50 years, and this has been documented ever since records have been kept. Too many people listen to the fake news media of CNN and MSNBC which are controlled by the reigning political party, open your minds to the truth, insist on your school systems to return to teaching history, it’s important! You can’t tell where you’re going unless you know where you’ve been!
Did you walk to school uphill both ways in a snowstorm?
Pipelines… I still can’t find anyone who can explain on how stopping the construction of a pipeline that never transported a drop of oil, caused prices to rise. You can’t effect the price of something when you weren’t actually part of the process.
I also know that there are plenty of refineries thousands of miles closer to the Canadian oil fields that produce this very dirty natural product. They don’t need to ship it across the continent to refine it, but they chose to to unnecessarily transport it thousands of miles. Some of those areas are environmentally sensitive and watershed areas that would be destroyed by even a small pipeline malfunction.
As we look to a transition away from internal combustion engines, it also doesn’t make much sense to construct new pipelines that will be obsolete in the relatively near future.
The problems that Texas had in the big freeze is that they refused to properly insulate process piping in the plants. I’m a 30 year plus electrician in the utility industry and have worked in Texas. Their lack of following “best practices ” and regulatory standards, using the excuse of not being part of the power grid regulators. The state has it’s own regulatory body that has continued to fail its customers and fails to prepare for the next hundred year event. The problem is that it also happened about 20 years ago.
Who created the phrase “fake news” and why? Know your history about how Hitler took control of Germany and lied to its citizens. Read an old book called “It Can’t Happen Here” (there is even an abridged version for your pleasure). It’s an old and wise book. This website is only reminding men that it can and came far too close to happening here.
This is an RVing site, yet some have repeatedly used it to spout a party line that ignores facts. Can we get back to coming here for fun?
It’s futile, Mark, but thanks for trying. These deniers are everywhere and are probably in the campsite next to you grinding away on their generator making everyone miserable because they feel solar panels are stupid.
Quality explanation .
Yep your right the POTUS doesn’t have any bearing on fuel prices. But since he has the power to shutdown a pipeline and change the US from Independent on fuel to dependency to other producers that have no concern for the US interest in the economy of our Great USA.
The President DOES affect fuel prices here in the US. By canceling Keystone, Leases, Fracking has turned us from energy independent and exporter from 2 years ago to begging Opec+ to pump more oil for us. By the way Opec+ told the President to pound salt, twice.
Thank you for commenting. It is Biden’s fault, all of it.
We have been rving for more than twenty years. love it. we spend the winter in Florida at the same campground for more than ten years. look forward to seeing the same people. we also know people who live outside the campground. it’s like going to our other home each year.
Thank you for that
You really can’t figure this out? Here, I’ll give you some hints: Gas prices are double what they were last year and inflation is making paychecks smaller. The quality of new RVs is poor, and owners can’t get their unit into the shop for all the warranty work until the season is over. On top of that, many people have a hard time downsizing from a 4-bedroom house and become overwhelmed trying to fit the kids and all their stuff into a bunkhouse Class C.
People who are coming with trade-ins have already figured it out and/or have a source of income they can bring with them on the road.
It’s not rocket science.
Instead of purchasing an RV, I purchased, back in 2018, a 2018 RAM 3500 Extended Length High Top Van. I paid several people to do what they do best, solar, insulation, walls, bed, kitchenette, etc… that cost me approximately $20K more or less. Overtime, I’ve added a few things like a diesel heater…etc. The only problems I’ve had were the batteries for the solar. Of the 4, 2 were duds…purchased off Amazon. I wanted a 31′ Class C because it was absolutely beautiful inside, but I’m so happy that I didn’t go that way. I read so many comments about how badly RV’s were built and decided to go with a van build out. Mine is very pretty inside with cedar ceiling and pretty birch paneling walls. The bummer(s) are that I purchased a van with bench seating instead of two bucket seats, and I don’t have a seating area in my van in the back area. No shower either. Composting toilet – yes. I am disabled on a fixed income, and I can tell you that the gas prices have affected traveling.
I am one of those who predicted this RV boom was just a temporary fad that was doomed to follow the trajectory of all fads. Once folks buy into the hype and confront the reality of groupthink fantasies, they usually lose interest and glom onto the next fantasy in the hope of “belonging” to another shared happiness. The work involved in realizing the vision usually pops their bubble.
What does it really mean….”the RV Lifestyle”….this is a serious question….
We travel and enjoy our RV…. but, we don’t live in it and will never do that….it is not a “lifestyle” for us…… And, I’d be happy if I sold it……
Maybe it’s a lifestyle for “full timers”….. but, I wish people would stop asking me the question about how would I feel selling my rig and giving up the “RV Lifestyle”….
I agree 100% it good to travel in and enjoying the time but never full time. Kind of waiting for the day it’s sold I do not think we would ever get into RVing again.
The problem is: too many humans. The poorest countries are creating the most humans.