By Nanci Dixon
There are two sides to every story, right? Well, that means there’s another side to why there are so many empty campsites. You’ll find the other side of that story behind the campground check-in desk.
As RVers, like everyone else, and as camp hosts we are seeing an amazing number of empty campsites. They’re reserved… but empty. We probably notice them even more than someone who isn’t a camp host. I have been finding entire weeks that are reserved, but the sites remain empty. Granted, a lot of those are non-electric sites, but still…
I talked to the park supervisors and they mentioned that the majority of campers here are from the area. “We are one of the largest non-private parks close to an urban area. With the high cost of gas, many families are camping close to home,” they explained.
People are getting angry over reserved but empty campsites
Being close to the city explains the huge number of reservations, but it doesn’t account for the no-shows and empty sites. The office mentioned that a number of people have been angry this year that they either couldn’t reserve a site or only could reserve a much less desirable site than the one that stood open for the weekend or the entire week. (We discuss this often in my Campground Crowding column.)
Refund system
The problem may be partly the refund system. Full refunds are only given eight days out. At four to seven days, you only get a half refund, and if you cancel in fewer than four days, you don’t get a refund.
I had to cancel a recreation.gov campsite only one day ahead and still got a partial refund.
The park can’t afford it
The explanation and bottom line is that the park can’t afford a more generous refund policy. It is an urban park with local campers and the park keeps its rates low. People read the weather reports and if bad weather is projected for the weekend, they would cancel. If it gets cold and blustery while here, they cancel the rest of their stay. The park would lose too much money.
This is a huge regional park with a hefty staff of maintenance people, mowers, landscapers, cleaners, electricians, security, supervisors, boat launch staff, beach attendants, check-in, reservationists, financial folks, people that cut and load firewood… the list goes on.
Understaffed
Even though there is a huge staff, they are still understaffed and under budget constraints. The reservation and check-in staff of three to four are already on the phone nine to ten hours a day. And that’s with online reservations available! Add last-minute cancellations and no one would get a call through! They have just added the option to cancel online, but that is still not alleviating the no-shows.
So what’s the answer to easing reserved but empty campsites?
What is the answer? Can campers be relied on to cancel in good faith without a refund? Evidently not. Can the park be more generous? They agree there must be a better way for the campers and for the park, but what is it? They have asked for suggestions from me and I am asking for suggestions from you.
Please use the comment section below to see if we, the users of the campgrounds, can come up with some actionable solutions. I’ll pass them on and we can keep the discussion going.
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What a great way to try to FIX the problem, not just point it out. I hope your readers provide some good ideas before I hit the road & encounter it.
Best Regards, always!
It all comes down to reservations. If you have reserved and paid for a site and for whatever reason you can’t make it and it falls outside the refund window then that’s it. The site still belongs to the folks that have “rented it” for that time period. If anyone reserves and pays for the site, whatever time they show up in their reservation window they are entitled to that site if they have paid for it. You can’t please all the people all the time. Even with reservation systems it is still first come first served. With todays economy and number of folks camping, be happy you can get a site at all, especially near major urban centers.
Too much “entitlement” in this country today; not enough morality.
I agree. If I called early and reserved and paid for a site, it’s mine. If something happens where I can’t get there for the first part of my stay and am a couple nights late (weather, sickness, car problems ), my site that I RESERVED and PAID FOR shouldn’t be gone when I get there. If there is a no refund policy and there’s a possibility my family can get there for the last half of the trip, then why would I cancel? If there’s a no refund policy, the park shouldn’t be able to take back the site.
If someone cancels then they know they are not coming so if someone shows up to camp unannounced then that site should be open to rent
Having worked in the travel and tourism occupation, I would recommend the similar reservation policy that many hotels, motels, rental car and cruise companies use. Something on the order of, 30 days out full refund, 14 days out forfeit one day fee, 7 days out total forfeiture. On the arrival day, hold the site until 8pm (or closing time if earlier), at which time if a no show, the entire reservation is forfeited as well as the campsite itself. If arriving after that time, that information must be given at reservation time or prior to the 7-day window. This may seem a bit Draconian, but this would stop the ‘locals’ from simply booking every weekend just in case they can go.
I agree! People don’t cancel or no-show on a vacation rental because of the cost associated with it. If Campgrounds would adopt a stricter cancellation policy perhaps this no-show issue would diminish. I was at my local CG and 50% of the “fully booked” sites were empty!!! Really pissed me off.
New policy that might make everyone happy? Keep the current cancellation policy, but add a kicker, if a cancelled site is rented rebate additional money to the cancelling party. Win-win-win.
We understand the refund issue. The campgrounds that we reserve have a tiered refund system. The closer to your site reservation time you cancel the less you get back. If we have to cancel, and we have. We Always cancel the site to open it up for others. That is the proper thing to do.
As for the no-shows. After two days of empty, on the third day, the site should be opened and made available by the park. If you rented it and are going to be late. Then you should contact them to let the campground know that you will be late. Be courteous to others that want to camp. Don’t just lock it up for no reason at all. Common courtesy and goodwill to others. We’re all in this together.
Unfortunately common courtesy and the proper thing to do are no longer normal behaviors of our society. Too many people think only of themselves and not how their behaviors affect others. We need more people with your attitude.
Rick, this is exactly what I was thinking. Some kind of use it or lose it clause that was clearly stated during the reservation process.
Personally, I think if you rent it, it is yours for the full rental term without refund. You come and go as you please. We have 20+ years in Class B RVs; if we take off for a day to explore, even a couple days for an area side trip, the site looks empty. If we are not coming back to that campground, we tell the operator and they can re-rent the site (and we don’t expect a refund).
You are not the problem. The problem is people renting a place and then not going and not canceling because it has no upside for them.
It should be common sense to cancel something you won’t need, but some people (lots it seems) just can’t be bothered.
One solution would be to implement a partial-refund-if-rerentable system. Meaning, if someone cancels a reservation, the spot goes back into inventory, and then, if someone else books it, the original person gets a partial refund.
This way, everybody is happy: the original camper gets a partial refund, the park makes MORE money, and the new camper snags a spot.
If you want to make this even more fancy, you could consider queuing the canceled spots and trickle them into inventory in batches, so the earlier a person cancels, the more likely they are to have their spots rented out and getting a refund.
Agree here as the most practical solution although comes with a technology cost. There is no reason for a campground to refund someone canceling late. That is ridiculous. If someone cancels it goes back into inventory and if someone else takes it the original renter gets some money back. Not 100% since this is goes to pay for the technology upgrade.
My thoughts exactly. Encourages cancels as early as possible and gives an incentive to cancel. But, the site would have to be re-rented to a “new” reservation to provide credit, not someone that already has a reservation and just wants to change sites. A “swap” of sites is still a loss to the campground.
A possible solution could be a penalty for no-shows.
If the first night’s stay is required to be paid in advance to make a reservation and then there is a no show, I’m not sure how anybody could expect anything different from the campground. It’s a paid site. If the camper never shows, another camper is wrong to expect they could be moved to that more desirable site (or whatever the case may be). The campground can’t really resell that site for that night because they never know if the camper is a late arrival. Now the site sitting empty for a whole week, that’s another story unless the entire week was paid for.
I talked with a campground host this year. He said when the sites are reserved and no one shows up for their reserved site they have to keep the site open in case the person who reserves the site still shows up. This campground host also told me people will reserve sites in 3 or 4 different campgrounds. Look at the weather and decide what campground has the best weather forecast and go to that campground.
B.S!
Campgrounds LOVE it when people don’t show up. They keep all the money and provide absolutely nothing. It’s 100% profit.
THAT is the reason nothing changes.
How about blocked not reserved. You pay for day one and it’s blocked the next number of days the camper has requested. If you are a non show or haven’t called by the time the registration office has closed for the day the following morning the site is relisted. The responsibility is completely on the camper. Place it on the site/contract in bold black and white so there’s no misunderstanding. No refund on the one day unless canceled not later then the day of. Like stated it keeps the responsibility with the camper the camp ground has enough responsibilities to the running of the place.
The campground where we camp at if a person cancels a reserved site . The campground host will open up the site.
Maybe they should just go back to “first come – first served” and forget the whole reservation system. Paying a private company, Recreation.gov, a fee to use public lands is pure BS.
FCFS is wonderful, but has its drawbacks. As a camp host, I have to deal with a lot of disappointed people who come in looking for a FCFS site but they were all taken by people who arrived earlier. So now all these people have to travel 100 miles elsewhere to try to find something. But only after I’ve listened to 30 minutes of complaining about how we should have more campsites to accommodate them. Reservations are helpful. Maybe a half and half approach is best?
If you’re full, you’re full. As host, you should never see a disappointed, turned-away camper. They should be stopped at the Campground Full sign at the gate
Give people 24 hours from when they;re supposed to check in, to call or go online and say they’re canceling or going to be late. No-call, no-show after that and your reserved site is automatically up for grabs.
The problem isn’t hundreds of last minute emergencies in every campsite. The problem is people doing multiple bookings, cherry picking the best and cancelling the rest on arrival day. Losing $50 in fees to get the premium site beats paying $50 on a bad site or worse, unusable site.
Booz Allen Hamilton (recreation.gov) is unmotivated to change anything since they collect a fee for every booking and every cancellation. Eliminating frivolous bookings means less income. Hosts don’t mind unoccupied sites, less fire pits to clean toilets to scrub.
Reservations need to be tied to the motorized vehicle’s license plate (not what’s towed) and can only have a one reservation per night.
You’ve obviously never volunteered as a camp host. I have (and still do). I’ve never met another host that wasn’t disgusted by ‘no shows’ and denial of a camping spot to a more responsible camper. The rest of what you’re saying has some merit.
Bill, I appreciate your attitude but I’m afraid the continuance of the problem suggests you’re the minority.
I’ve heard camp hosts comment almost with glee about how recreation.gov has made their life easier. Less fee stubs to check, less site hoarding, less camp and bail while thinning demand and turnover, etc.
If the majority of hosts viewed empty sites as more annoying than serenity with less work, the problem would be less apt to persist.
I’m at an “empty but sold out” campground right now as I type this while watching the host enjoy their lawn chair. They don’t seem disgusted by any stretch dear sir. How to solve?
Bill, I disagree. I’m a camp host in a national forest and with the overcrowding and horrible campers that have materialized in the last few years, every no-show is a sigh of relief to us. Camp hosting has become adult baby-sitting.
I’m commenting on the software aspect in another thread here.
automatic future reservation refusal may fix the problem. If a no show fails to cancel their reservation they will not be able to make future reservations for 2-3 years. Maybe that will make them cancel. Also a short notice call back waiting list for those who wil use the site.
Campgrounds like at the north rim Grand Canyon intentionally make half the sites unavailable and say they’re booked when they’re not because their funding was cut and they’re aren’t allowed. It only happens in democrat areas.
Only the National Parks in “Democrat areas”? So the National Parks in “Republican areas” have no problems with federal funding cuts? SMH.
FYI. The Grand Canyon is in Arizona, which is considered to be a Republican state. Funding was probably cut because the Republican congress isn’t taking care of business.
Arizona resident here. The state is no longer Goldwater republican. It votes purple about even split.
It’s Primarily Republicans who are for cutting funding for government agencies.
With tech’s ability to confirm/cancel appointments ubiquitous in health care and other areas, I don’t understand why that can’t happen here. Those cancelled reservations could be snapped up by new paying customers. They could keep a portion of the last minute cancellation and get a new full rent and be better off overall. There has to be a way to make this work economically to the betterment of the rv parks and their customers. IMO.
I agree revamp from the top down recreation. Gov. The system is horrible, slow and not user friendly. They simply don’t care. Two I agree with a comment below. Penalize the reserve a spot /no show person. They have the technology. You don’t show up, then you’re penalized from making future reservations for two years. Seems fairly simple, the camp grounds won’t lose business, I promise you that.
I’m baffled why other states or rec.gov have such lenient policies. We spent most of our camping career in Michigan State parks. 100% payment required at reservation time (almost always 6 months in advance due to the crowding), sliding scale for refunds, automatic cancellation if you don’t show up on the 2nd day of your reservation, and the ability to get a small refund up to the day before.
Thank you, Nanci! 🙂 I agree with a couple of the suggestions made already. If someone “no-shows” and does not cancel the reservation, then note it in “the system.” Pick an “acceptable” number of “no-shows” without cancellation (0 or 1?) and block their ability to make a reservation in that campground for a period of time (balance of the season?) if they exceed that number. If they “no show” without canceling in a second campground, then block the person from making a reservation in all state campgrounds for that season. However, if someone does cancel AND the site is reserved by someone else for all or part of the period of the canceled reservation, then a prorated refund is sent.
Thanks again, safe travels, and safe stays! 🙂
I have a site reserved for two weeks in August at a campground. Unfortunately, I am now only going to be able to stay one week. I have been unable to cancel just the one unused week of my reservation on recreation.gov. I feel bad about a coveted site being unused for a week, but I dont want to lose the following week I will be there. The reservation system is definitely lacking and part of the problem in this continuous issue.
Did you call reservation.com they are very helpful
You can go in & select modify reservations this will allow you to change the dates.
Have you considered calling the campground? I’ve had excellent results with both private and state campgrounds when I’ve found my self delayed for a day or two.
Valerie, you might try calling the actual campground and see if they can help. They are usually really good to work with!
Perhaps this has been mentioned, why not hold the multi-night reservation for 1 night? If they don’t call or cancel for the rest of their stay, do it for them. Make it clear in the policies that that will be done. How difficult is it to make a call these days? I’ve called reserveamerica when I’ve had weather delays. They say they will make a note in my reservation and that it is always a good idea to call the campground, too.
It’s not the people running the parks or campers … it’s the software. I agree with Larry … fix the software so when someone cancels, another camper can snatch up the site. The companies writing reservation software don’t seem to care. I just returned from a long-term (1-month) stay at a major park in San Diego. During the last week, I was required to change sites as my site had been “reserved” by another camper. I moved one site over for the next 5 days, and for the rest of my stay no one ever came to occupy the original site … So, why did I have to move? My answer is to FIX the ridiculous reservation systems software to make it more “real time”.
The software company (recreation.gov, etc) *could* update the software to manage changes/cancellations, IF their client (usually a government) wanted them to. Heck, it might already offer the option to do so, but maybe that option is turned off. If not, their clients would have to pay a change-order fee to modify the software to handle these things intelligently. But those change-order fees are usually expensive–that’s where the software company really makes their money since they probably lose money on the initial project bid. Our governments probably don’t want to pay that fee.
(cont’d) Plus, as stated elsewhere, what incentive does the campground/government have to update their processes to issue refunds when they can keep all or much of the reservation fee and just NOT have a camper there? Many of these places operate at a loss (I work for one that does) so the only way to minimize losses is to minimize campers, thus minimizing labor costs. The system is broken from the top down.
Jake, are you suggesting these campgrounds are set up as tax shelters? And potentially, these no-show reservations could be for the same reason, even booked by “friends” of the owners?
In that case, refunds for no-show and re-rent would be of no interest to the campground owners. If I had a suspicion that a campground was there just to give it’s owners a sleezy write-off, I would not want to be a customer.
There are so many other options: Farm stays, ranch stays, winery stays, orchard stays, to support small businesses. National parks, state parks, regional parks, or just boondocking.
Campers can drive solutions if we make alternative choices with our recreational dollars.
If it’s a corp. park they really don’t care. Gate attendants and camp host care but farther up the chain of command they really don’t care. We had a gate attendant who was willing to call no shows. He was told basically not to do it. The site was paid for so it could just sit empty. There needs to be a set time for late arrivals and a clearly stated number to call. After that time the site needs to opened and available for a new camper. With zero refund to the no show. Rec.gov is a major pain. The site needs a major upgrade. At this point the best practice if you need to cancel is call the park directly. Sometimes those numbers are hard to find but no more so than dealing with rec. gov.
If you are a ‘no call, no show’ after 24 hours from your 1st day then you forfeit 1|2 of your full reservation fee. No exceptions.
Actually, ‘1st come, 1st served’ is still the way to go for non-glampers.
I firmly believe they should forfeit the entire fee and remaining reservation for the entire period plus AND allow the site to go to another camper/traveler.
Yes, this would give the added revenue needed to cover the admin cost of managing this
The reservation terms and conditions should state that if you no show the first night, the reservation is null and void with no refund. The campsite can offer on a first come, first serve basis or a last minute reservation platform like The Dyrt or even recreation.gov.
Travelers can still be responsible and cancel up to the last minute for partial refunds or even call/online cancel maybe the first night or two if they are delayed.
Hopefully that would encourage responsibility on the campers’ part and avail unused sites to others who want or need them.
Go back to first come first served. Or at least offer half & half. I spend most of the summer out in my RV in Forest Service and BLM campgrounds and the FF campgrounds always fill up and the reservation campgrounds always have 10-20% no shows and empty spaces.
Yes to half FF and half Reservation ! Mcwilliams and Hilltop at Mt Charleston outside of Las Vegas NV does this and it seems to be working. Also- FF people don’t have to pay the ridiculous “admin fees”.
I had to cancel a COE reservation one day before arriving. I have a senior discount so the fee was only $15 for a night. But I forfeited the $15 and had to pay a $20 cancellation fee. So it was more expensive to cancel than just be a no show. The system is broke and doesn’t encourage cancellation.
There is a campground that I stay in a few times a year. There are usually at least 20 sites that have been reserved for a week and nobody shows. So I understand they are cheap sites and people don’t want to cancel but why not have the campground cancel their reservation after a no show of 48 hours and make it available. No refund for the no show and they can collect on the new occupants. More revenue for the campground. Also, enter into the computer the no show and don’t allow them to reserve for 6 months and cancel any reservations they have in that time period. Like the article said these campgrounds are near population areas that would easily fill their campground.
I guess I prefer the more simple approach (KISS). End the mandatory reservation system, open all sites to lst come – however, maintain an optional reservation system. This will, no doubt, reduce the income to the reservationist, (is that a word?), however it will almost end the cancellation problems and vacant sites. Anything over two nites would need reservations?
No show, no call, by 1800 on the day of arrival you forfeit your camping reservation for the entire stay and it is up for grabs. Anybody can have a breakdown or get tied up in traffic and everybody has a cell phone. However, if you do not have the common courtesy to call the park you loose your money. In this past year I have cancelled reservations in Florida, Texas and Louisiana. In Florida we cancelled at 1100 in the morning when our RV wouldnt start. The staff was so thankful and had 2 people wanting to extend their stay. I received either a full or partial refund for just being a good camper from all three states. I agree recreaction.gov is absolutely horrible and always has been.
Maybe give the camper a credit for another campsite at a later date within the timeframe reservations can be made. But no cash refunds when less than a week cancelations.
Let’s see… collect the money for the reservation while enjoying a less full park, with less noise, less traffic, less contention for restrooms, and not having to do check-out maintenance on the campsite? Sounds like the ideal business plan for the campground and a much better job for the camp hosts and workers. And probably a nicer experience for the remaining campers. That’s win-win for everyone except the potential new campers who’d want the spot.
In Kentucky, the state resort lodges/cabins, if one cancels within 48 hours of check in the card used to secure the reservation is charged one night fee plus taxes. No shows are treated the same.
Some hotels are charging a one night fee plus taxes if the reservation is cancelled within 4 days prior to check in.
I would think exceptions may be made with proper contact/explanation with management – But the ‘rules are the rules’.
Regarding no shows at campgrounds. One suggestion would be that if you don’t show up on the first night, the rest of your reservation is cancelled and others can come in to your spot.
As full timers for 5 years, we realize that $10-15/night is cheap for some people to reserve a spot in case it works out to be there. The spot sits empty then when they go elsewhere.
It does make it more burden for the camp host or ranger to oversee these empty spots but would be a benefit for the next camper
This would give last minute campers a chance for a spot.
Campground computer systems the are used to run credit cards can easily issue a refund. For a “No Show” charge for one night and open the site for others (allow execptions for the person who calls with a reason to delay arrival. .Write and publish the reservation/refund policy of the website and have a “check box” to acknowledge reading it (I know nobody reads the fine print) before a reservation can be made. e worked at a campgrounfd that had 270 sites with several “no shows” each week. One person spent about 3 hours a week generating the adjustments. It wasn’t that difficult
In BC provincial parks your reservation is cancelled if you don’t show up by 11am the next day. We had a blowout tire on the freeway and it took hours to get help. It was then too late to arrive before gates closed. We phoned the campsite manager and got an extension until noon of the next day (time to get there) . Of course we still had to pay for the missed night.
With the price of RV’s, Gas, Groceries, and what you need to RV. How do people afford to book multiple weeks in different Campgrounds and then just not go or cancel? On the West Coast it’s about 6 to 9 months in Advance to reserve a site and could be $500 or more for the week.
If a reserved site isn’t occupied by a certain time allow others to take it. That doesn’t help those trying to reserve online, though.
Black flag no shows, if they don’t show without cancelling they pay a penalty. If they don’t show without contacting the park, release the site to another camper.
Many of my stops this year were in parks that didn’t require a deposit or only one night’s deposit. I think that policy encourages no shows, especially if there is a cancellation charge. One park I will be visiting required a one nights deposit with a credit card. Then 7 nights before the automatically charged the rest of the cost with no refund. Also there was no cancellation fee. If I’m going to be late I can call and they will hold the site for me. I’ve called twice. Once I had to leave a voicemail. They called back within a couple hours. What can be fairer?!
Don’t show at a hotel with no call or notice? They’ll hold the room for a few hours. Then they’ll either charge you for the night or give your room up.
Simple rules. Call, or lose that first night and then the rest of your reservation is open to others.
I totally agree. That was going to be my suggestion.
Add “must actually stay/occupy first night and following nights (not drop your chairs and a tent and leave for a day or two or more)
If you’re gonna make a reservation to just drop and run, maybe you should ask first if they have a designated area like the back 40, Or as someone mentioned, an overflow area.
I just checked out campgrounds with reservations along the North Cascades Highway 20. I wanted to have more fun this summer.
Every campground site, except for a single here and there, was booked for months!
What a joke!
I guess I’ll try Oregon or go back to Idaho and Montana where I just left last week to come home for a doctor’s appointment.
RATZ!!!!!!!
Ya just gotta get yourself some mountain property, David, like me. 18+ acres, semi-remote, west of Stevens Pass, just off Hwy. 2, with Index Creek running through it. Absolutely gorgeous. Can’t beat it! Now, if I could just fit it into my busy schedule.☹️ Take care, and stay cool! 😀 –Diane aka Mountain Mama at RVtravel.com
Might cost just a little bit more than it did back in ’73 though..🤔
That’s probably accurate. Can hardly buy a car for that anymore.😲 And this is a two-story house on 1/4 acre. Can hardly find a house that’s not wall-to-wall with the neighbors anymore, either – sorta like a campground.🙄 Changing the subject – Temp here is currently 93, but should start going down soon. Can’t complain, considering what a lot of other folks are going through. Just not used to it here in the Pacific Northwest. Have a good evening, Bill. And stay cool! 😀 –Diane
Only hit 90 here today. Traveling the northwest later this summer and still keeping our eyes out for that perfect place to maybe move to.
Lots of nice places around here. 77 years in the same area (born at Seattle General in 1946) and have never been tempted to move anywhere else. 😀 –Diane
Been here my whole life too. And 3 generations have lived here before us and 1 of my sons and his family lives here too.
👍 Sounds like most of my family.😊 –Diane
Most of the great ones are booked on 1/1/NEWYEAR IN Oregon. We always drove into a first serve very early Sunday morning.
I feel that if you cancel your reservation after the set time frame, first you should receive zero compensation and second you should be barred from booking any further reservations six months first offense. Second offense one year, third offense two years. If people are that inconsiderate of not playing by the rules, they don’t deserve the privileges enjoyed by the rest of us. Stop the notion that everybody gets a trophy, earn the privilege by playing by the rules. If they don’t like it, sell your RV.
Most provincial parks in Canada have a no refund policy with less than 3 days notice BUT if you do not show up to set up camp within the first 24 hours of your reservation, your reservation is canceled which does free up the space even if people can’t be bothered to cancel it themselves. We do still have a problem with people setting up camp and then leaving. So the space is still unavailable even though people are not actually there using it which is equally annoying and frustrating.
Make it so the site has to be occupied or charge double.
If multi day reservation and you don’t cancel or show after first night your reserved site reverts to first come first serve and is now available. You paid, but forfeit remainder of your reservation.
Full refund minus actual cost (if any).
So if 12 people cancel and 6 people snap them up….which 6 people get a refund? I think an 8 day before refund policy and then zero refunds 7 days or less.
Should be half the campsites first come basis
Sounds to me like management is focused on ease of use for themselves instead of customer service. Allowing cancelation with full refund or a small cancelation fee won’t reduce revenue if the demand for sites is such that all sites are reserved – last minute reservations will snap up those canceled sites, and there may also be more walk-ins. The suggestions that you forfeit the site if you don’t show up are also valid, hotels do that all the time, pay now if you don’t want to take a chance on the room being given to someone else if you aren’t there before 1800.
Have a confirmation call two hours before check-in time. If no show then cancel reservation and rent out to someone else. Maybe have a standby list of guests wanting to rent the site. Go down list when there’s a no-show. Another idea is to charge a deposit which they get back when they show up.
Charge them for the complete time they make reservations for up front and then figure out a refund policy. If they’re only going to lose one nights price it doesn’t matter to some people. Hit them in the pocketbook and maybe they’ll think of someone else besides themselves.
They are already charged for the complete stay, whether they show or not. There is no refund policy for no-shows.
I think no shows should be denied further reservations
Absolutely, I think Oregon now gives you one reservation no show and you cannot use that park campground for a year. Call in late are not penalized. They also have the curtesy of calling you. Of course they are not as busy as some states.
Yosemite used to have a rule you had until the second day to check in by noon or call to be late. If the site was available that second day people are going to use it. The story that people won’t fill the empty places is not true. The parks will get their reservation money plus the no shows lost reservation money.
This can be a computer program enhancement.
Volunteers can be used to help monitor the system. The volunteers get discount.
This may need to be a technology solution, but I know it has to be possible….You have to give your drivers license number to reserve on most of the websites I’ve used. The system should prevent you from linking your drivers license number for the same dates more than once. Also, the campground should be able to flag no-showers so they can’t book again for the remainder of the year.
One idea for evaluation is to maintain a percentage of sites that cannot be reserved. First come- first served …. or…..consider providing a simple basic overflow area where RVers could wait for no shows to occur. Maybe a discounted rate for overflow ? Based on first arrival to overflow , they could then be offered the sites of the un-used reservations.
I also suggest a strict notice lead time for the refund policy to be applied , else FULL CHARGED for entire reservation and possibly a penalty also. One way to stop this is to hit their wallets .
After 30 years of RVing , I find courtesy and etiquette is lacking with many of the newbies now with RVs .
If you cancel and the site is used by someone else you receive a refund equal to the amount realized by the campground. So if you have booked for 4 days and cancel and are not getting a refund and someone else books and uses the site for 3 days you would only pay for the day the site sat empty.
Grade a secondary exchange part of the system. If you are canceling or want to cancel put it back as available. If someone tries to reserve it the money goes to the first person who made it available. This way the park is not out the money and someone else gets to use it.
I think if they offer a “secondary” market, you hit the cancellation button, this goes online. As soon as someone else books the site, you should get a refund minus a fee for the service. If there are no takers, you pay regular cancellation fees, the sooner you hit that cancellation button, the higher the chances are someone else books it and you get most of your money back.
Add to that, the sooner you cancel, the more you get refunded.
This only solves a small part of the problem. Many people don’t care if they get a refund. They’ve paid to have the option to show up.
So you end up with secondary markets. Like stubhub people jack up the price and the campground loses
First come first serve
If you no call, no show, by 9 or 10 pm then you lose the entire reservation & the money. Be up front about it. It will happen less. If they call and have a reasonable excuse hold it for one night. I believe Wyoming State Parks do this or at least they used to.
Go back to a First come first served system! Remove “reserving” all together! Problem solved!!!
Now explain how this solves the problem. Did you read the article?? Most of the campers are local. Instead of making a reservation, they just show up on Wednesday and pay through the weekend. Maybe they come back, maybe they don’t. That’s the way it works with FC/FS. Doesn’t change much at all. It just makes it easy for the locals.
And of course it does nothing for the campground. They benefit from no-shows. They get paid for the space without having to provide any amenities.
So you add that a tent or trailer must be on the site. If someone is willing to pay and go to that much effort, only to then not stay, that’s their right and all the better for their camp neighbors
Add a $100 per night hold on their credit card, on top of the regular registration feee, which is released if they show up, forfeit if they do not show up.
I’m for this deposit.
You don’t want to “solve” the issue, more so just punish people.
Sadly, that is the solution.
This will ensure that the only RVers left are folks with plenty of money who can tie up $1000+ on their credit card for 6 months. Also it will start a cottage industry of people on Craigslist or FB marketplace who will (for a fee) go over to the campground at night and pitch a tent in your site then leave. I’d pay for that before I lost $1400 on a two week reservation. I understand the frustration, but someone willing to book 2-3 sites on spec and just eat the costs, do you really think you can hurt them that much with fees?
No refunds at all. Then only people who are serious about going would reserve a spot
Suggestion 1) Making a policy that folks will receive a half refund even with canceling in three or fewer days if someone else ended up renting the spot.
Suggestion 2) If camper does not show up the first day of the reservation, the spot will open up on the second day unless they call or email to notify of their impending late arrival.
Suggestion two is the right answer, and is already the policy stated when receive from the recreation.gov site.
The real problem is how badly the site communicates site availability. For insurance, reserve a campsite from the afternoon check in through the morning check out on Monday, and it shows that Monday is taken, wasting a full day of eligibility. Campsite vacated or not checked into and opened up? Site shows that spot as reserved. With the sites as full as they are, few people are trying for first come first serve availability, unless the campground is designated as or has designated FF spots.
Another problem at very popular campground is reservation resellers…
I would like to see live time updates to where people have canceled reservations so when I go to the Campground I can reserve if a no show or cancel. If no show by 4 pm I think the site should reopen up unless reservations were contacted.
It’s an easy fix really. Make more first come, first serve sites like there used to be. Don’t know why that seems so hard. I don’t even camp anymore because it’s all reservations. People camp based mostly on the weather. Weather is not predictable more than a few days out, which is why first come, first serve sites are necessary. I’ve never planned a camping trip months in advance, and I’m not going to. I’m not losing out on a paid reservation because of the weather and a lack of first come sites elsewhere. I’d rather skip camping altogether. Reservations for everything took all the spontaneous joy right out of camping.
I am right there with you. Camping was ruined when everything went to reservation only and months in advance
Create a ‘resale site’ to offer up sites that cannot be used. Like a ticketmaster resale site. Verifying legitimate sites for sale to help people with reserved sites recover some if their cost for reserving the site and not having to pay the penalties for canceling.
Have an area on the park website, that facilitates for people to directly buy a campsite from a late canceller (but not at a profit for the seller).
This way the park doesn’t have to give a refund, but then spots won’t be left empty, unless they’re truly not wanted by anyone.
Results of the sale can still be seen by the campground, so that they can accordingly update the reservation with the buyer’s info for whatever days they buy.
Keep the current practice in place. This will eventually correct itself, camps and parks can continue to operate, and people will exercise more caution when reserving in the future. Campgrounds and state parks have become increasingly more crowded since covid, so I’ve been avoiding going. The newer campers haven’t yet learned etiquette and the crowds make the experience much less enjoyable for our crew.
Switching to a first come, first serve basis, especially at parks I go to, would be drastically devastating. Driving hours only to find there’s no spaces at the park just would not work, and many of the parks & state parks would lose business.
Give a one night free added to next reservation of 3 or more nights
offer refunds only if site is rebooked
1) open up no shows the next morning, in real time on recreation.gov so they are immediately re-rentable
2) keep the entire reservation fee. This will cover the admin costs of managing the no shows and boost Revenue and also dis-incentivize no showing in general
3) recreation.gov should not allow the same individual or credit card to book multiple campsites on the same night
It would be nice if you had to cancel within 3 days that you could get at least half of your money back if they could get your reserved spot rented out for the same amount of time or more you reserved it for.
Parks should require the first day res fee plus 10.00 to reserve. If campers not present within 24 hours of check- in time the CG opens the space to fcfs customer. Original campers gets no refund. That way it’s a win for both.
If you no show without notice, you can’t make another reservation at any park in the system for one year.
And, no, first-come, first-served isn’t the answer. When traveling, we’ll often drive 300+miles in a day. At the end of it, I need to know I’m going to have a place to settle in for the night,
If someone doesn’t cancel when they don’t show up they should be placed on a “delayed booking list” for the next 12 months so they will not be able to book then moment booking opens the following year but have to wait for 2 weeks after booking opens. I found that unless you stay up for midnight the day booking opens your chances of getting a spot near Toronto are pretty much zero! We need to all be fair….
How about setting a check in time and if someone is a no show or doesn’t call by a certain time the site is released to be rented for that night the park still rents the site so they can get paid double for the same site to make up for losses.
Some National Parks have instituted a very good and clear policy to deal with no- shows and an efficient procedure to recycle these campsites. Either occupy the campsite before checkout time the next day or forfeit the reservation.
My wife and I have been very fortunate to get excellent sites in both Yosemite and Yellowstone
Why not offer people who need to cancel after the full refund policy starts to diminish, the possibility of a full refund iIF the park is able to rent that spot to someone else? That would encourage them to call ahead if unable to camp during their reserved time with the hope someone else may fill their spot. If no one else reserves the location then the original renter still loses his deposit. I’ve had VRBO’s offer me that solution when circumstances have made my prior plans change. Im certain a computer reservation program would be available that could “flag” sites that renters need to cancel and are available to others.
Maybe they need to go back to the old way. You drive to the campsite and look for a spot. First come first serve situation. Online booking isn’t working bc some people are selfish and cant or wont cancel their not needed reservation.
If they have not shown up to their reserved site by 10:00 pm rest of reservation will be automatically cancelled and site given to someone else
I feel the problem with the empty campsites in State Parks is that you can make reservations at the nine month point in Reserve America, up to two weeks prior to when you want to camp. Then after 8 days you can change your reservation to the actual dates that you want to actually camp for a nominal fee. That blocks sites from individuals who would like to camp but can’t get a reservation because they can’t be constantly watching the website to see when and if the sites become available. The state needs to raise the fee for changes to stop this practice.
Allow a pending refund if their site becomes booked by a new party.
The reservation systems work. It’s the inconsiderate people that don’t cancel the problem. Georgia state parks used to be a reserve system but you picked your site when you got there. Unfortunately for working people that doesn’t work. We circled the park twice on the 3rd go around a wonderful host offered us a host site that was empty. If not for them we would have to go home and lost our money. Thusly reservations is not the problem. Make a calendar just for camping when you schedule write it down or type it in. Then cancel if need be.
How about a separate relisting of the campsites that are paid and open to be cancelled? Original buyer can get back whatever is offered less a fee for handling the transaction. Max amount payable being the campground rate.
Campgrounds need to enforce the 24-hour no show rule which is if you don’t show up within 24 hour of your start date the campground has a right to no show you and reopen the site and that is the regulation in place but Campground staff are being told by the higher people to hold the site for the duration of their permit enforcing the 24-hour no show will get people to eventually cancel before their start date if not going to show
Use the same system the hotel industry does. They have to check in by a certain time or they lose their reservation. This won’t fix it completely, nothing will, but at least it will allow a few of the sites to be used. If they no show then they get no refund.
1. The campsites should limit the number of days one can reserve in a calendar year. I have found that locals are reserving sites for multiple weekends and later cancelling once they finalize plans with their friends/family. Or not even bothering to cancel if the sites are inexpensive.
2. After the period of full refund, give the option of a partial refund or full charge with a credit on the account for future days within the same calendar year (cancellation must be received within 24 hrs prior to scheduled arrival).
If the reserved camper does not show up by 9:00 pm of their first night and do not call to let them know they are coming in late the site should be given up and lose all nights connected to the reservation. People need to be more responsible and if not lose their reservation with NO refund possible. This could be in plain black and white in reservation policies!
We all have phones and can communicate our check in times!
Everyone books 6 months out to get a spot. Things change in that time & people forget they booked a site or they book several different places for the same weekend to have options open. Here they can easily get to a Nevada SP, California SP, & several NPs all within an hour or two and none of those websites are linked, so the loophole exists where they can book three campsites for the same weekend and choose the weekend of or weekend before where they want to go. If AI and bots can be used to find all open campsites for reservations, there should be some program which can be designed to block people from booking several sites on the same weekend
Great idea, I hate that people are actually doing that everywhere, we have such influx of people right now, that in order for us to enjoy our own state parks and outdoor recreation sites, we have to book 6 to 12 months in advance because the out of state tourist industry has them all booked and more likely than not it’s this group of people who are creating the problems. something needs to give with reservation system to make it more fair to the ones who actually pay taxes and fees to have the beauty and luxur.
luxury
Reserve the site again if possible and then make a refund to the camper that didn’t show less 10% for cancellation fee
Between all these suggestions, you have a pretty good solution. Fix the registration software. Higher monitary penalties for no-show, restrict user/email from registration for a year after no shows, AND site is released for others to use for the remainder of the reservation. Allow for overflow, overflow reservations, and first-come first-serve.
Off-topic, but, can we PLEASE get a few outlets on the bath houses or shelters so people without electric sites can charge their phones or cook food without having to mooch from those with electric sites?
No. You get what you pay for. We tent camp, use the fire pit or the propane camp stove we bring and pump water to wash dishes. We bring a throne or use the bath house, if there is one. Get a cordless charger or go without. That’s what camping is. If you want the bells and whistles you buy them and have them. You don’t mooch or expect others to provide for you.
very well spoken
Make the reservation have REAL ID and only let that person / household use the site.
The answer is simple. No refunds if you cancel 14 days out. 1/2refund if you cancel 30 days out. Offer a “possible refund “ if space gets rented if you cancel. That way the park still gets paid but people cancelling are incentivized to cancel for a refund. Don’t make rent so cheap that people will just reserve and not use. You could also use a “payback” system. Say it is $200 to reserve the space; however, you get back $100 after you leave provided you leave the space as you found it. That way you could keep the cheap “user rates” but penalize those who reserve but don’t use.
#1 – All reservations must be confirmed within one week of the start of the reservation, or be forfeited. So people MUST either cancel or confirm.
#2 – Then, any reserved campsite that is still not occupied within the first 24 hours of the start of the reservation is open to be occupied by someone else.
#3 – Any campsite vacated early is immediately available for use by someone else.
#4 – Anyone who fails to occupy a confirmed reservation is banned from being able to make reservations at any public campground for three years.
in the previous years i used to go out an park rv in sight for 5 days at 35 a day now you res a sight pay a fraction an dont use it an get a refund wowee how much did gov make lol
If a phone number is.used to reserve a campsite and notifies they are canceling the full reservation a refund of up to 75% could be given if rebooked by new user.
If the lot is empty the next day after the reservation is cancelled on short notice let those campgrounds become self-service. (provided a notice is posted that it is free)
My opinion. Since it is difficult for the Parks services to give out refunds, change the policy to a “kind” donation for cancelation. It helps the park in the long run and possibly more people will keep their reservations.
You can’t control mother nature, no one can predict the weather when booking ahead.
Charge extra for no shows to give incentive to cancel. 24 hr no show opens rest of reservation to new campers unless original confirms they are running late.
It’s not so much about the refunds
Focus on opening the site that is sitting vacant, no show for 24 hours and lose it!
Change the policy to rent out a site 24 hours after the start of the reservation. A reservation would gives 24 hour grace period then it is open for reservation or first come first serve.
It is so simple. A BC Ferry reservation is forfeited if you don’t arrive by a certain time. If a campsite reservation isn’t claimed in the first 24 hrs, void it.
I have not been a no call no show. I have been a call going to be late check in due to weather or traffic, etc. I’ve experienced the frustration of trying to call, email, leave a voicemail to campsites or cancel and not getting through to them. We just took the hit of losing the refund due to the pain of trying to get it back.
We came across a few campgrounds on the Oregon trail that if you were a no call no show by 5pm that campsite was available for the night. Others set their time as late as 7pm. One of the national parks even did it at 3pm, if you had not claimed your site by 1pm. This way hosts and campers are happy!
It seems that appts and bookings are being viewed more as “suggestions” than a commitment nowadays and it really needs to stop!
It’s a simple process that has worked for years:
a) if you’re going to be late, call or text and the park will continue to hold your site
b) if you’re not coming at all, call or text and the park will give the site to the next person on the cancellation list – and yes, they lose their deposit
c) if you don’t show up at all, the park turns to list or gives the site to the person sitting there with cash on hand and a hopeful look on their face
d) 3 times no show, camper loses the right to future bookings
Simple and only costs park a bit of manpower.
Hey stuff happens. Let the site become available if the reservee has not occupied the site by midnight or contacted the cg to say they will be one day late. I Always call if there is a mechanical problem etc. I’ve done a late cancellation once. I canceled on line and contacted cg because it was a peak time to tell them, please be aware that site is open.
I believe they should have a limited number of reservable sites and the rest should be walk up and rent sites.
There are so many people that do spur of the moment getaways. They don’t plan on being able to go camping this week and then get the chance. But the sites are reserved by someone that does not show up.
Refund the full original reservation if someone cancels within the no-refund window and the site is rebooked.
This creates incentive for people to actually cancel because it gives them a chance to get their money back even after the cancel window has closed.
How about adding the option for a full refund anytime, up to and including the night(s) of the reservation(s) if, and only if, the site is subsequently rebooked by another guest. This works on many vacation rental sites. Why not a parks system? The park assumes NO additional financial risk and campers who cancel have the opportunity to recover all their money. This is simple to accommodate online, perhaps less so over the phone, so maybe it is something only available thru the online system.
24 hours before check in time they must confirm the reservation or lose their spot. That would eliminate some of the no shows.
Absolutely no refund and if you don’t show up on first day your campsite is back on website for someone else to enjoy..this business of booking 3 weeks and only using one weekend has got to stop..I tried 10 times to book a campsite in different parks and got nothing..NP in Sept oct..Ontario parks needs to be tougher on this.
1. Offer a partial refund if they cancel even up to the day of the reserved site if it gets filled.
2. If guest does not show up on first night and does not cancel reservation regardless of policy they lose their spot and the campground can open it back up online for someone else to reserve.
How about a reservation fee on top of the campsite fee that is refunded only if you use the site. No shows would lose the additional funds as well.
In my humble opinion, the whole system is completely broken. The online system acts like you’re buying the last front row seats to a Taylor Swift concert. Then ya show up and the venue is less than half full. My conspiracy theory is that scalpers have the system rigged just like concerts. My other thought is understaffed, really!?, nah the prices have doubled in the last couple years and I am sure that pay hasn’t, I think the parks like it half full, less work for the few remaining staff.
No there is definitely something amiss, been RV’ing full time the last 4 years and it has changed dramatically. Very frustrating to plan ahead and risky to just show up. so far I have been lucky.
Dump the reservation system completely. That in itself will lessen the need for additional staff and no longer the need for a complex cancelation/refund system.
Invest in a system that sends out a txt 48 hours in advance (and maybe again in 24 hours). Make them confirm their registration. Register the next in line.
What if “no shows” were charged and sites reopened after 48 hours of no show for other campers. This would allow park to make more $ rather than less and would open campsites up.
Purchased sites should have cancellation insurance which is a percentage of the cost of the site. If you cancel within 48 hours, you are within the right of the cancellation refund.
Nobody here seems to understand the issue. Refund policies mean nothing to people who don’t care if they get a refund. Many people are paying just for the option to show up. Maybe they’ll come on the first day, maybe on the last day, or maybe not at all. I’ve seen people who paid for 2 sites just so they could park extra cars. The cost is obviously not the issue.
First come, first served also does little. It just allows the locals to do the same. The only difference is they’ll set up a tent on the site to mark their territory.
The reality is that if the park is going to keep its rates reasonable, they need every site paid for. People who don’t show up don’t cost the park anything.
You are correct in some circumstances. Which is why a two pronged approach is necessary. Both financial penalties as well as being “blacklisted” for no-shows. For those with financial means, the blacklisting will have a greater impact.
I think too re-booking the sites after 24 hours – that removes the incentive to book a site just in case you decide to show up at some point during the reservation.
You’ve hit a key thing, IMO – those empty sites were paid for by people who could afford to eat the cost, and as you raise the penalties, you just price out people who can’t afford them – or even the risk of them – in favor of the wealthiest RVers. Money won’t fix this, unless your goal is marginalizing everyone except Prevost Bob who doesn’t look at the Amex bill when he pays it every month.
(apologies if you are named Bob and own a Prevost, but you get my drift)
I agree. The pricing and the refund policy, if any at all, has to be market driven to really solve this. This is especially a problem at national parks. Making it easier for people to cancel at the last minute only helps single people who live near the park and makes the overall problem worse for everybody else. The prices would need to be increased and the cost of ANY cancellation needs to be steaper to solve this. That is just reality.
What about a choice ⚪️ “cancel my reservation for a partial refund if someone else wants the site”. The refund can be determined by the park and based on if someone else takes over the entire reservation or part of it.
Devise a system where last minute campers can buy a vacant spot and then the original reservation owner could get a half refund. Call the original owner to confirm they’re not coming and will receive a half refund when the new owner checks in.
No refunds. If they don’t show up within 24 hours of the reservation, the reservation is lost and the site is open for first come first serve.
Still apply a penalty which will help them with their staffing shortages.
Create a section on the property web page for people who need to give up their reservation to post it.
Then people looking to camp last minute or who are looking for a spot can go to the listings.
There would be a few more details but that’s the gist of it.
Stop allowing the reservations! It’s not fair to everyone. Bring back the first come first served. Campgrounds will always fill up and it’s not whether you spent January 2nd making reservations, but actually putting together a camping trip and going!!
So people should spend hours packing up their gear and family and driving 90 minutes on the mere hope that there is a site available? That’s not a solution at all.
Not a fan FCFS. I camp alot of weekends- arriving on a Friday. After work, like 8pm. I’d never get a spot.
I think there’s 2 solutions here. 1- refund 1 night, less than 24 HRS notice in the form of a credit only for the next stay at that campground. 2- Start penalizing no-shows. Meaning 3 (or whatever #) no-shows, camper cannot try and book that campground for 6 months or a year.
Charge an up front “site deposit” (e.g. $500), that is separate from the nightly rates. The site deposit is fully refunded if you show or cancel.
Not everyone can afford an “upfront fee” even knowing it will be returned upon arrival or cancellation- especially $500
Nice idea, but what about those who can’t afford the $500. Or aren’t they supposed to be campers? I know many that couldn’t reserve a spot if it involved that kind of charge…me included.
Maybe the site deposit could be less, say $50. Or $75. But I think that could work!
Good morning. As winter southern travelers. We have observed that many campsite do go empty. Even though reserved. What we have also encountered is that if there is a late change in plans. Due to weather or congestion through large metro areas. That Rec.gov charges a cancellation fee. That is equal to or exceeds the camp fee. So. No brainer. Leave your reservation intact. Avoid the hassle of dealing with a system that is less that adequate.
Leave spaces that don’t require reservations. First come, first served. If demand is as great as you say, you’ll still be full. Or have a check in time. If not present and no call by 8 pm, it’s up for grabs.
Charge an up front “site deposit” (e.g. $500) that is separate from the daily rates. The deposit is fully refunded when you show or cancel.
I think people who don’t cancel and don’t show should be noted and black listed on the Reserve America site, or however they make their reservations. If they fail to show up within 24 hours of their reservation they should be blocked from making another one for at least a year. They should be blocked both by their email, name, and vehicle license plate. We who are honest and conscientious are losing beautiful vacations because some people can’t be bothered unless they are punished for bad behavior!
I think if people don’t show up after the first day of their reservation, and dont notify the campground or reservation center, as to why they havent showed, the campsite should become available without giving a refund at all.
Some people make reservations way ahead and then decide they are going elsewhere, and because the parks make it too easy to get refunds, they don’t bother to cancel. People will always take advantage if things are made too convenient for them. So be stricter!
We like FCFS because it allows us the flexibility to choose based on our preferences, which may not be the same as “yours”. If someone pitches a tent to claim their site that’s their option (and risk) too. If they change their mind and don’t come other than to reclaim their tent, now that site is available again. FT x 7+ years.
If a no show for 24 hours, release the site to other campers. Make it part of reservation policy.
I know! Maybe curb inflation and corporate greed and there will be more money available for refund!
The solution is if you book a campsite and do not arrive physically within a specified time (say 24 hrs) then your reservation is forfeited.
Would seem pretty easy. Charge a non refundable deposit when reservation made and apply it to balance when they check in. If they are no show then charge full amount of reservation and release the site to be occupied.
Definitely if the party isn’t there by a certain time the first day and hasn’t called/emailed to say they’ll be late, give it to the next person. Open it back up on the website to be rebooked. No refund. It shouldn’t be this difficult. I would expect the same if I didn’t show up. There are some circumstances where say the party gets lost and can’t phone due to service or some accident happens but shoot. That’s life.
I had to cancel at a county park last year. After reserving (and paying) months in advance, I was called to work. Although I canceled our multiple day stay, I didn’t get a refund (policy was to still charge for the first day and refund the remaining). I was unable to reach anyone by phone–no answer–and emails went unanswered, as well. Although money is a bit tight summer/fall, the money had already been spent, so it didn’t hurt as much as it could have.
I was concerned that another, who would have loved to have a site, would be denied. I consoled myself with the thought that campsites often get overused, beaten to death, and I was paying for it to rest.
When a camper no shows, log it to their account. Every no show = a one week delay penalty to access campsites when they open for registration. The result is campers who have a track record of showing up end up at the front of the line to reserve camp sites. No show-ers to the end of the line.
Real question – how do you stop people from just creating multiple accounts? Is it ok for people to have to give something like their DL number to set up an account? Again, not rhetorical – I like this idea because its just code, fully automated in the reservation system, no additional resources or manpower. . . but you have to keep people from gaming the system.
Also, the website should have an ‘I’m running late’ button – you click it and get an extra 24 hours before you are a no-show forfeit. Any longer delay, you need to call the office, or you get a strike on your account.
Get rid of the reservation system altogether and go back to first come first serviced the system isn’t fair because they open it up before the first of January and all the people don’t realize this
In Washington the ferry system in some places uses a reservation fee that gets refunded when you show up to take the ferry. I think the same thing for campsites should be used where the reservation fee is 3 or 4 times the price of camping. It would incentivize people to follow through and show up or be extra revenue for the campgrounds.
And still have a deadline to reopen the site say 24 hours after reservation time. Then they get the forfeited reservation fee and new campers at the site. This might even help them fund their staff shortages
Penalizing canceling campers isn’t the answer. They paid for the spot.
Seriously, set a check in time. If reserved and no show by normal business hours the site can be released without refund. Simple, effective. It’s a win win for campers and park owners.
Let’s face it. Planning a trip can be imperfect with weather. Hot, cold, rainy are all normal weather conditions. Primitive camping isn’t easy when it’s not perfect. Learn to deal with and prepare for the situation. If you’re in a glamping/camper situation the weather isn’t a huge factor. You reserve, you pay and that’s if you cancel less than 48 hours in advance.
I thought if a reserved campsite wasn’t occupied by check-out time of the second day, it was considered open again and could be occupied. This isn’t happening in the campgrounds I’ve been in.
Institute a 75% refund if rented policy. If canceled and then rented out. This will encourage canceling and make spots available. And for those parks that only charge per day… if policy is 3 days for refund, then if a week is rented and you cancel last minute – still give 4 days refund 100% and 75% the 3 days if rented.
Florida used technology to slow everything down and make it more difficult and charge more. Better concern for resources and less greed is the answer.
You don’t have to penalize the canceling campers, they are doing it correctly. Penalize the none canceling/no shows. Make it large enough that it promotes people to do the right thing. $150. If you no show in Idaho you can’t make reservations any more. People don’t care about other people, charge them to not care. It’s a win win. The park gets revenue from the penalty or the camp site is open and gets reserved by people that will use it.
Yes!
I think if someone makes a reservation but doesn’t show up and doesn’t cancel they should not be allowed to reserve again.
How about you get a refund only if the site gets re-reserved after you cancel..
A long time ago I worked in a CA state park that used Ticketron for reservations. The policy was, if you do not advise us you’ll miss your first day, we resell the site and you are just SOL. If you run into issues & call, we hold the site for you, only letting someone use it that first night. We rarely had any no-shows. It was spelled out during the reservation process. It worked.
The solution is easy: Offer a 90% refund IF AND ONLY IF the site is re-rented. Now, it’s a win-win-win! The prior reserver may get a nice refund if they have to cancel. The new renter gets a space. The owner gets an administrative fee to cover any costs of switching the reservation and a better reputation due to happier customers.
I think the solution is actually fairly simple from a parks perspective. One of the parks near me will cancel your entire reservation without refund if you no-show the first day without contacting them to make arrangements
So, if you reserve Friday through Sunday and no call/no show then the site would be available to other campers starting Saturday. This is true whether your reservation is two nights or two weeks
I think the reason more campgrounds don’t do this is because they can’t tell Recreation.gov to open up a campsite that’s been reserved. So the site sits empty for the ENTIRE reservation
It would help a lot if campgrounds had the option to make zombie reservations available
Great solution! As a kid we would reserve 4th of July week, the best site a year in advance. And we always found a way to show up even if our dad had to go to work because of unforeseen circumstances. Sometimes he stayed the night and left early to drive the hour to work. Sometimes he just stayed at the house. And sometimes he got lucky and got to go camping with us. Sometimes we were camping with other family and friends who also reserved a year in advance and occasionally it was just four of us. Either way we had a high value on camping. Many who never camped before the pandemic started camping during. Perhaps some education on the value of camping will help.
We often lament empty “reserved” sites at both national & state park campgrounds.
A possible solution may be to hold no-shows accountable by giving a red “x” next to their names/emails/cellphone numbers. If you reserve and don’t cancel 3 times in your lifetime , you should be banned. Period. Refund systems could be changed – say a full refund up to a week in advance and a 50% refund up until the day before check in. Then, no refund…but remember…three red “x” by your name bans you from the park permanently. If bad weather was the excuse to not cancel, there is still a consequence to keep you honest!
A hefty deposit refundable upon entry
I agree with many of the comments below.
I’m not in favor of the camp spot being forfeited if someone doesn’t meet the check-in time. I have been running late when renting a hotel room & won’t show up until the early morning of the next day.
However, if the camp spot remains unoccupied by, let’s say 12:00 pm the following day of a reservation, then the spot should be forfeited and is 100% NONREFUNDABLE. Make this crystal clear in big bold words on the booking website that this is the policy.
The spot can then be rebooked, allowing the Park to generate additional revenue. It seems like common sense to rerent vacant spots given the article talks about understaffing.
It should be as simple as “If you do not show up for check in by [Time, lets say 1700HRS], or fail to call and notify of a late check in due to [___] delays, your site reservation will be voided and may be given to another party. You will be ineligible for refund, but you may receive an alternate site or the same site if still available, first come first served.”
Been camping for all my life… and even 5 years ago some public campgrounds still operated like this. No show & no call by next day check-in time, and site was released with no refund. Alt site was honered if original site was taken on the 2nd day release without contact. Completely believe it should go back to this.
Give the campers a “rain check” certificate for them to come back and camp – BUT it has to be used within 30 days of their original booking or something. No refund necessary, and campers get another opportunity to use what they paid for.
If they don’t use it, the park still gets to keep that money. I also see some other comments about a refund if the site is about to be booked by someone else for the reservation time. That’s also a really good idea.
Like the idea but i would say 90 days instead of 30. I think tryin to prepare for a campin trip n havin to tie up all ur lose ends, like makin sure u can git off work n whateva else life throws at u. I just dont think 30 days is long enough.
Just make a system like Ticketmaster where campers can post their sites for resale, but only for the listed price so it doesn’t create a system where people are trying to make money. That way people that can’t go last minute don’t take a hit if they resale. The parks do not lose money as they have the money either way. If people really do want to cancel, then they know the policy of money loss up front. Not sure of other states, but on Reserve CA, the system needs to be live so when someone cancels, it opens up right away. Furthermore, most campgrounds, if someone cancels it won’t allow you to book same day and next day, only two days out. That is a dumb issue they need to fix.
I’m in Ohio and with their reservation system, you can’t cancel reservations until 3 months after they were placed. So if the reservation were made only a couple months before, they can’t be canceled at all. If you make them 6 months before, you probably forgot you made them and don’t cancel.
Also, I have found in multiple states that if you want to make a reservation for say July 4-8th, you make. The reservation is made for you June 25-July 8. They have no intention on using the dates before and just say it’s the price of wanting to camp over the fourth.
What would help – allowing a switching of sites from one person to another.
This is the new America and nobody cares about anyone else anymore. So sue them for not showing, put them in debt to lawyers and they’ll never do it again lol
Agree with most of the comments. One point. Problem with releasing the site day after a no-show happens, is that no one knows the site is available unless they drive there to check it out. Camp managers are busy servicing the sites and phone service is usually scarce in camping areas. So even a telephone call won’t get information. There is a need to modify the system so the no-show sites get broadcast and people who can use them know they are available.
Hammock/Tent camper: I book the max I’d like to stay often a month in advance and if the weather looks foul for part I’ll delay checkin or leave earlier.
Camping in a lightning storm or during an active tornado watch / warning is foolish.
Offer a discount (25%??) off of a future reservation if they cancel during the non refundable time frame.
All these campgrounds are there to make money and for most it just ain’t happening. They give you a concrete slab picnic table a 6′ yard wanta sell you firewood and 2 pages of rules. I believe I’d rather check into some prison for a weekend.
I think all no shows should be banned from making a reservation for two years at all camp sites on recreation.gov no excuses for not canceling- same they do for river permits
Many sports facilities have ticket resale options. Perhaps software test would allow a no show to list the cancelation and they would get a refund less some sort of administrative fee if someone took the spot
I have all but given up on Camping due to a lack of availability of sites. In the old days of first come first served we would go out and pick our spot, set up our tent and pay for our site. If a nicer site came available we would simply move our tent and trade sites. When the time was right we could arrive, set up the remaining gear, launch the canoe, eh voila. I vote to remove reservations all together. These are for the wealthy people who can afford not to show up leaving valuable sites unused. If a reservation is not confirmed within 24 hrs and no campers show up after 24 hrs that site just like airline seats sould be forfeited and made available to anyone waiting at the gate!
Why not have a no refund policy and a no show after 1 day then reopen the site for someone who wants it? A lot of people reserve for the week and only show up for the weekend
no refund
Have a 24 hour limit for your reservation. if not there it’s automatically cancelled. goes back in the system for rent again. the first reservation gets nothing back. but it’s made available to others without sitting empty
Suggestion: similar to event tickets, let people post they are willing to transfer (sell) their spot. Once it takes off people would likely love to find last minute opportunities.
are you kidding me, so they can jack the price of the site 3 times the price, sounds more like a benefit for the ass that didn’t show.
Limiting or revoking the ability to make reservations should be applied in the event of no-shows. Maybe progressive. 1st offense = no reservations until 3 month prior for a year. 2nd offense = 1 month. 3rd offense = 1 week. 4th offense = no reservations for a year. 5th offense = no reservations for 2 years. Etc… so many ways it could be structured. Easy to implement.
Try this solution. All sites must be occupied by midnight of day one of the reservation. All reserved sites then become FF. This allows the campground owner to partially double dip, and allows for FF campers to access otherwise empty spaces. And spaces filled as described above would qualify the original reservationist to a 50% refund for any days their reserved spot was filled as outlined above.
Put a disclaimer that a spot must be occupied within 24 hours of the start of the reservation. After that the site can be opened for first come first served. This could also make the park(s) more money.
If you cancel you could get a credit for that time for that campground ( same season use unless at end of season?) but if a no call/no show maybe a fee and auto cancelation? If other campers are especially bothered by seeing this they can report empty sites instead of wasting employee manpower.
Reservations canceled last minute should result in a partial refund with the balance kept by the park as reservation “credit” to be used towards future reservations. That way campers will be incentivized to cancel, more sites will open, and the park won’t lose money.
Have people on staff to make reservations at office during day time hours to talk to a human. We all have questions.
If you have a no show, on the first night it could be temporary stay after five if no notification. After that it’s a no show and open for grabs for that specific duration of 3. We’ve all been late, but calling or texting to inform them is polite.
So what if there was a (Bank it area) in the reservation program where the person who had to short cancel and could not get a refund could put it into the bank so someone else could assume their spot, make the payment, thus allowing the original person to recoup their money, the campground would not lose money, and that would open spots for campers who previously could not get a spot.
Pick specific campsite upon arrival.
Bring back walk ins with Exclusive cut off times. If the campers are not there for 3pm-4pm that day. their sites should be opened up for the next available camper or walk ins.
We used to love packing our bags last minute. Going to a camp ground and grabbing a site for the night. But you can’t even do that anymore as there just isn’t any available today for walk ins.
What if the parks charge us full price for the entire stay like many RV resort parks do. Then they will be more apt to cancel. Losing $10-20 is nothing to most people anymore. They don’t realize they’ve ruined a good time for others who want a site. OR what if the parks have a policy for habitual persons that don’t bother to cancel? Throwing out ideas.
We camp regularly and we’ve had trouble finding a site since Covid. The worst part is when they book the best sites and don’t show it’s upsetting to those who want a good site. I hope something can be figured out because it’s forcing us to go away from state parks altogether. Thank you for putting this out there.
Campground No Shows:
One solution could be to add an arrival time. If that time rolls around, and is still empty, then the site opens up for first come, first serve.
Booking.com uses a similar system for hotel rooms.
If they don’t show up by a certain time the first day then it’s automatically cancelled. Just make it stricter!!!! You have to!! There are just too many people and not enough campsites!!!
Make a policy that if you don’t show up by 6 the first night, you’re outa there!! Give it to someone else!!
We live near Zion and we used to go up during the week in spring and tons of sites were empty and they wouldn’t let anyone have them. We were so upset by this!! You just need to make camping strict, it’s the only way! Too many people are wishing for that spot
I’m a bad person to ask this question. I don’t like the reservation system because I don’t use credit cards. However, in this day of technology, a confirmation message can be sent let’s say 1-3 days ahead of reservation date. to the person to confirm that they still plan on being there. If they don’t show on reservation date a message can be sent again confirming they will be there. Life events can happen, i.e. medical emergency, weather. Refund the money if the answer to either is no and let the site go to 1st come. 1st served. If they don’t respond and don’t show up, keep the money and go first come first serve. There is no perfect system, but do what you can to be flexible and fair.
Have a late arrival system. If the person with reservations his going to arrive late – say after 5 (or whatever is a reasonable time) he/she calls and lets campground know (many already have this system so they leave a map with the site for the late arrival. If no call/notification then the site can be offeted to someone else.
I have found that in popular national parks, there are so many no shows amd it is very frustrating.
Baxter State Park in Maine has a really good system for no shows. If someone doesn’t show by a certain time, that site can be given to a person who would wait for one to be available. Maybe if a “reserved” site wasn’t checked into by a certain time, the reservation is automatically cancelled, partial refunded, then given to someone else. Walk-ins are always a good way to fill those spots. And increase the revenue
Require the site to be occupied by the reserved person each night of the reservation or they forfeit the space and it can be re-rented. If they don’t show up the check-in date…it can be opened to others immediately and their reservation is cancelled/forfeited. If they show up late…they have no space reserved.
Maybe offer a full or large refund if the campsite gets used/rebooked once notified, even if it is last minute.
Add a sublet section to the booking site. If someone wants a refund, put their site up as available with the ” regular” price sent to the original reserver
Just put them on a naughty list for 1 year. No new reservations on recreation.gov
Or an extra charge if they no show without cancelling.
I am a tent camper & I’ve seen it all. LOL it’s just common sense that if you don’t show by a certain time, you don’t get the site. Refund policies should be made by each campground owner as needed. I have had an RV family show up at 3am shining their headlights into my tent whilst they backed in and secured it. It’s rude and I wished that the campground had a policy of checking in by a certain cut off time to not only give other campers the opportunity to get that spot, but also to ensure that the campers already there are not disturbed past a certain time.
I guess I need some clarification. So a reservation fee is a partial payment of the reserved time? When is payment received for the entire amount of reserved time?
When we have made reservations we give a deposit and then at a pre-determined date, the remainder of the amount for the reserved time is paid through the card on file. We know when we begin our trip we have a place to park our camper. Many times we have arrived after the office is closed and we have a packet waiting to tell us where our site is located.
Regardless of the refund policy, I thought if we cancel, the park can re-sell the spot we gave up. No?
That is for private RV parks….not national forest campgrounds. When someone reserves a site on recreation.gov the entire amount is charged up front.
It’s so easy
Return to first come first served
It sure worked better than your reservation system- or
Provide only a specific number of reservation only sites spread through the campground
Just like airlines. If they haven’t checked in by a certain time, they lose the site. And like hotels they can arrange for a late check-in but at a certain point it’s a no-show and it’s up for grabs
They can mimic hotel policies where they designate odd numbers to be RESERVABLE and even site numbers for first come first serve. Refund policy is OK. Park can’t loose money.
A few years back I made a one night reservation at the Grand Canyon. My husband decided last minute to not stay there so I tried to cancel. I was not expecting money back, but I actually would have had to pay money to cancel the reservation at the national park. So that camp site sat unused that night. Irks me to this day.
Is there a way to incentivise online reservation cancellations by offering a partial refund if the campsite is able to be rented to a camper that has no reservation?
Adopt the automated texting/calling system that the medical profession uses. I get an automated call or text now from my doctors and dentists about 1-2 days before my appointment. I typically have to reply by hitting 1 for “confirm” or 2 for “cancel” if it’s an automated call; or a “Y” to “confirm” or an “N” to “cancel” if it’s an automated text. It’s easy for me, it’s easy for the medical staff, and, if canceled, it opens up a slot for someone else.
A lot of good ideas. My favorite is to make it so that late cancellations get a refund if the site is rented again after they cancel. The earlier they cancel the higher percentage refund they receive. Also institute that if a multi-day reserved site is not occupied by midnight of the first day the reservation is forfeited and it becomes a FF site for the remainder of the reservation. Allow a one time, day of notification until, say 9:00 pm to save the rest of the reservation because things happen like car trouble, bad weather, or we get sick. They still loose what they paid for that day but the site is not given away. If they show up days(s) late they still get it if empty or pay for FF site
The system is flawed, but as long as the park gets the $$, they don’t feel it’s worth the effort to correct. As mentioned in the article, sites can remain unoccupied up to the full 14 days reserved. I propose that after missing the first full day in a reservation of less than 5 total days, the reservation is void, refund forfeited, & the sites can be turned over. For 5-10 day reservations, give 2 days to show up/contact online or forfeit, and 11-14 day reservations can get 3 days to forfeit. That way, if there are mechanical or other unexpected delays, there is time to alert the reservation system (who MUST IMPROVE their online response) that they are still enroute.
Or….. no payments accepted until you arrive. That way, no refunds are needed for no-shows, & those who reserve aren’t as complacent about their commitment.
I understand not offering a refund but perhaps a % of the fee can be applied to a future booking as an incentive to notify the park of a cancellation.
If the site is not occupied within 12 hours of scheduled date/time, the entire reservation is cancelled with no refund, thus opening the site for others. This would not apply if the campground is closed due to fires, flooding, etc.
open up by the second day check in time…. many people arrive early morning to enjoy the entire day when they cannot make it there in time for the evening set up…
Apparently in Texas they decided to raise the rate on a yearly pass to the state parks by 25 dollars. Many people cannot afford the raised amount. I know that it cost money to run a park but a 25 dollar raise is tooo much. The Texas Parks and Wildlife department should be negotiating prices on everything they use at the parks and also on building new sites. I am not against charging people for not showing for a reservation. I would require a 3 day notice for cancellations that way they can rent the location to other people. Three days is enough notice to decide if you are going or not.
The problem we’ve encountered is you call and call and no one answers the phone, they put you on a call back list, no one calls you back to be able to cancel your reservation.
You shouldn’t be charged double when your a No Show, when you can’t get ahold of the reservation office to cancel or reschedule! Situations at home can change quickly to cause you to make other arrangements, it’s NOT always the weather’s fault for cancelating a camping trip.
In the past we were all packed up to go camping and our truck had a maintenance breakdown, and another time we got everything packed, ready to go and the slide out wouldn’t shut on a fairly new model camper.
Things do happen,
Sounds like campsites need an Expedia type booking system where campers can pick up last minute sites for a lower price. It would help the campsites be able to refund cancelations and keep the site rented still.
Perhaps this will help. People cancel anytime before their reservation date. When they are not due a refund, they will get one if the site ends up being rebooked. This would work if it was part of the reservation system program and credited in automatically to work after cancelation. But they’d only get the amount rebooked. Perhaps this would encourage people to actually cancel, and another camper can enjoy it. Win. Win
Good idea!
and they do not have to be refunded, instead a credit is placed on the account for future use….
People keep saying if someone is a day late, cancel their reservation and such. My husband and i both work. Stellantis tells him Thursday if he has to eork Saturday. So, sometimes we come 1 day late. We still come. We still want to have a life, and some fun. We could call, if they make that rule, but i guess some people don’t understand last minute mandatory OT. I’m an RN. Glad i no longer work weekends, but it used to be both of us. There must be another solution.
agree that people should occupy or call by the end of their first day’s reservation – see many people come in early morning the next day (cause they couldn’t make it the night before and it is their site). That is 100% fine — need to come up with the incentive to call to let the campsite go on Day 2 on in time for someone else to take it.
Double the site fees. Put a no refund policy into place if reservation is cancelled less than 14 days of arrival. When site is vacated on last day of reservation, the camper comes into the campground office and half of the site fee is returned to the camper.
I like MI State Park Rules. we were staying there one summer for a week. There is a premium lakefront site left vacant for three nights. Because the person had not shown nor called, we were able to secure that site.
“If you don’t check in to a Michigan State Park campground within 24 hours of your scheduled arrival time, you’ll be considered a no-show and will lose your reservation. You’ll also forfeit two nights’ fees, the reservation fee, a $10 cancellation fee, and a reduced-stay fee for any remaining unused nights. The reduced-stay fee is based on a sliding scale that takes into account how long your reservation was held and how many nights you cancel.”
Perhaps there could be a stipulation that if a reservation is made for more than one night and they don’t show up or communicate that they’re coming late, that their reservation will be void beginning the second day and their spot will be opened and become available.
Go back to the good old days when ALL sites are First Come First Served. There were NO reservations. You either want to camp or not. We’d leave early to get the best spot we could. Otherwise you take what spot you get and you don’t throw a fit. Reality people!
Camper to contact campground to have the site held for late arrival. If no call made within 24 hrs from scheduled reservation arrival, the site is open for another reservation or first come first site available.
100 % agree with Bev. Just like any hotel, you have to do the same.
When you book only to get the “best” spot and you are booking the same spot every day for the entire summer “just in case” you decide to go, WRONG! It needs to stop. I guarantee the park will be full without having a reservation system.
I think that people should incur a fine for not showing up.
Fines do sound nice but where would that stop??? Fine people for missing appointments or fine season ticket holders for leaving their seats empty, Just charge a non refundable deposit or charge a deposit that gets refunded upon arrival
If they cancel in 24 hours then refund a part of fees. 24 or less keep all their fees.
Give them a check in time if they don’t make it they lose money it’s up for first come first serve and reposted for available reservations at a discount. They make more money
This was my idea also.
The reservation system should rate users (1-5) based on attendance. Don’t show up and your rating drops. As user rate drops to, say 2 star, your ability to reserve a spot gets harder. 5 star users get first chance at reservations, 4 star goes next and so on.
If the campers cancel on short notice it should be possible for them to get a refund IF the site is rented by someone else for those nights. If not rented then the lose their deposit or whatever is the policy. I know this would create my work for people who don’t really want to work in the first place but it would help the problem. I know I am upset when I have to cancel at the last minute and am charged $85.00 knowing the campground will sell it again on the same night and make double on their already outrageous rates.
Recently made a reservation at an NC state park via reserveamerica.com and was offered “trip insurance” to cover refund for rainouts. First time this option appeared and cost about $3 per day to cover.
Only allow reservations 90 days in advance. If the camper doesn’t arrive or change the reservation by 4:30, the spot opens back up. Partial refunds till 24 hours before arrival.
Check in times are normally 12pm 1 pm or 2 pm – If you have not shown up by 5pm, with no phone call to state otherwise, your site then becomes available. Park makes money and people will get to enjoy the site. Maybe possible exchanges of sites could occur for prime sites.
I agree that there should be a rating system and no show/no call a certain number of times bans you for a year.
If I pay for the site and have not cancelled, it is my site and it should not be given away. Period.
It’s not about punishing people who show up late. It is incentivizing people to cancel when they know they are not coming.
National and state campground computer reservation system.this would allow for control of who is mismanaging there reservation a hefty fine and a opening shows immediately in reservation system . Do not cancell loss of money 50.00 fine. All other reservation auto cancell for the year. Hire people to work for our tax money
I think people should become familiar with their national and state fiscal responsibilities. In my state, for instance, none of my tax dollars go to state parks.
You hear it all the time for various issues. My tax dollars pay for this, my tax dollars pay for that, etecetra… Needless to say it saddens me so many people do not understand where their tax dollars really go.
North Carolina state parks are funded by parks and recreation trust fund established 1994. Funded by a annual appropriation from general assembly. National parks are primarily funded by Congress by annual appropriation cycle as well as mandatory funds. All federal public lands are owned by tax payers like you and me. Remind everyone that without the volunteer’s to work for the parks we may not have any. i hope this clears up any confusion on my part.
RVers should have 7 days or more to cancel their reservations..if they can’t follow this policy..they then forfeit their total reservation fees. PERIOD.. it is a fair way to do business..and if it is done consistently campers will know in advance what the policy is. If a camper knows there is a strict 7 days cancellation policy in place they will pay more attention to their reservations and not do last minute cancels.. and if the campers can’t follow a 7 day cancellation policy they either shouldn’t reserve a site or just joyfully make a donation to the local campground. A policy like this should help all campgrounds deal with some of the last minute (or less then a week) cancels.
In addition to no call due to being delayed their reservation should be canceled and charged. They can have a wait list for last minute camp availability. Or as airlines do offer a discounted rate to fill the spots left empty while others sit home due to no availability due to their negligance of communication. This would offset the expense of employees, upkeep and accommodation of those really wanting to take advantage of camping. Sad when you leave your camper home for an available hotel room only to ride through sites and see the same empty spots for days. Very unfair to those who truly want to take advantage of camping.
I experienced this a lot. Just camped the full Oregon coast and every park was fully booked but there were an unbelievable amount of open spots.
I believe that there should be at least one section where, if campers have not shown up by a certain time, and not notified that they will be late, the spot should become available. If the office is closed, staff can come around and collect fees the next morning. And it should be noted when you make the reservation that your spot will be open season if you don’t get there by a certain hour.
Suggestion: If a reserved campsite is not occupied by check-out time of the first reserved day, then another [waiting] camper can assume the campsite the next day at regular check-in time. Upon assumption, the camper pays the same fee per night. The reserved camper loses both their deposit and their reservation. The park service is not out of pocket. Eventually, reserving campers may be more respectful. Non-profit or for profit, the rules are the same, and cancellation requirements stay the same.
This may also curtail week-long reservations just to have 3 or 4 days of weekend time.
If you no-show at a hotel when you have a multi-night stay, what happens to your reservation can vary depending on the hotel’s policy. Here are some common scenarios:
1. **One Night Charge and Hold**: Many hotels will charge you for the first night of your stay as a no-show fee and hold your room for the subsequent nights. This means you can still check in the next day, but you will have paid for the missed night.
2. **Cancellation of Entire Reservation**: Some hotels may cancel the entire reservation if you do not check in on the scheduled arrival date, especially if they have high demand and need to free up the room for other guests. The camp grounds can also do this.
If there’s no incentive to cancel because the refund window has passed then why bother? Give refunds if cancelled last minute and the site gets rebooked. Otherwise it gets paid for twice.
Cancel the reservations after 24 hours of a no show. Open the site then as a first come first serve site through the remainder if that reservation or until the next reservation date.
Don’t allow reservations go back to first come. People will still come to camp and all those empty campsites will be used by people who enjoy camping no matter what the weather is.
Have a program where, if they cancel and someone else take their times, you will refund them for the time you were able to resell. Incents reservers to actually cancel and give the park a chance to satisfy two customers at once!
Require under the ‘terms and conditions’ checkbox that everyone agrees to that you MUST cancel, even if no refund will be issued.
If you fail to cancel, then reservations will be denied for that account holder and address for 12 months.
Incentive $ for campground, and those left out
Only offer a refund or partial refund,
if and when the same site gets reassigned to a new Camper that wants those or part of those days. You could then Refund the rebooked days, minus a small processing fee.
We camp in the Whiteshell, in New Nutimik in May and June. We rarely get any time to camp in the rest of the season due to weekend campers. With a pop-up-camper, we don’t want to book from Sunday night until Saturday morning…or worse Friday morning. There should be sites for people that want to tent up for the weekend and spots where people can stay for the 21 days they say we can book.
I read the article twice and still can’t find where this is or the name of the park.
If a site has been reserved and payed for and the site user doesnt cancel within the appropriate time, that person shall be charged for full reservation. Let it set empty. It has already been paid for. What everyone is saying is if I potentially rent an apartment but work or family only allow me to be at the apartment for 2 months out of the year others should be able to use it the other 10 months?
But this isn’t a residence. This is like a hotel. If someone reserves and doesn’t show they are charged then the room is opened up to others plain and simple.
Site should be occupied by second morning, if not, then considered available.
Easy to fix, provide a mechanism for folks to donate the site to other campers rather than to the campground. Many, maybe most would take 5 minutes to online add the site to the pool. That way the purchaser is helping another camper, something ingrained in all of us.
How about no-shows who don’t cancel get charged double? That would give incentive to cancel reservations that you can’t keep.
I agree- must notify park office by a certain time about late arrival time or forfeit the site
24 hour no show campground can keep the reservation fee and re-open the site for reservation.
If they don’t show by a certain time on day one of their reservation they forfeit the campsite reservation. Either no or half refund. Holding a site for several days without anyone using it is absurd.
It costs nothing for the camps or their reservations manager to send out a pre-check in reservation confirmation by email. If no response within 48 hours of check-in date, then penalty is 100% forfeiture of total amount paid and reserved site becomes available again for use. This will allow the parks to potentially earn 200% fee for the same site allowing for much needed income and guarantee 100% site usage.
Some of the folks who “game” the system by reserving and then no-show may object loudly, but after they learn they forfeit their non-used site without refund, this should assure 100% usage of the sites!
I agree
Great idea!
I think it should as simple as if you don’t check in or call to cancel by the day of your first reserved day, the site is forfeited and you pay the equivalent of a ‘restocking’ fee equal to 50% of the total cost of your entire reservation. If you can’t afford to incentive the cancellation, do it through punishing it.
I agree
Whatever the solution is, the punishment has to be clearly stated and has to sting enough to change the behavior:
– have 50% FCFS sites
– no-show without cancellation: 1st time = $75 CC fee, 2nd time = $100 fee and bar from booking state wide for 6 months (based on license plate and #DL).
– reservation tags are removed and marked no-show if no one is present by 12PM day two of reservation. Missing the first night doesn’t trigger a no-show.
– fees go to maintenance
In Natl Park campgrounds, if you’re a no-show on the first day, it goes back to the park to rent to someone else. It doesn’t prevent all no-shows but it must help
When the refund period is over….offer a free night, for 1 or each of the nights they reserved, at a future date over a certain time period. This could be a credit to a reward type program, a voucher with a code to enter for a discount on their next reservation, or a gift card. Need some incentive to let you know they are not going to be there.
It is a tricky pickle.
I do think that the unused sites would be filled as there are so many frustrated by the empty spots.
Maybe a partial refund if the site you reserved, then canceled( with no refund); then was filled by a walkin…or a last minute.
Should be a reservation program to make that easy.
I see it as a win, win,….win.
The best kind.
Park gets an extra payment, campers get a site, more people enjoying the park.
I agree. I live across the street from Carlsbad Ponto Beach campground- I walk through at various times and see empty sites. Suggestion-If the office is not contacted by a certain time to explain arriving late- campsites should be open to others after a certain time.
I was told at the check in booth that they are not allowed to release empty sites to anyone else.
I camp host at SC State Parks. If someone reserves a campsite for several days and is a no-show, or doesn’t cancel, the campsite cannot be sold to someone else. In my opinion if a campsite is reserved, but not canceled, and the campsite isn’t occupied by check in time the next day, the State Park should be able to sell that site to another camper.
Give them campground credits. If cancelling last minute, give a campground credit that can be used towards Kayak rental, purchasing firewood, local restaurant, etc.
Even though the person may not get the full $ amount back. If they get a 50% credit, it brings the people canceling back to the park, entices them to try the parks amenities, and frees up the empty site to be available to rent by someone else.
Simple. Find a system that is the site rents before your reserved time, the system generates a refund
Maybe a policy could be put into place where if the original camper’s haven’t shown up in 24-48 hours with no notice the spot could be used by another guest, with the understanding that if the original camper showed up they would get their spot back
Charge a no show fee if they don’t cancel. I believe the USFS had this at campgrounds near Dillon Colorado 15 years ago. No refund, but no additional charge if you cancel near the arrival date. Then the site is freed up for someone else, the park doesn’t lose money, and someone else can use the site last minute.
Maybe if they turn to hotel rules and give a full refund 24-48 hours ahead of check in, that might help. Then someone could jump on the canceled site.
I get the part of the park though, potentially losing out because people would have to be constantly looking at the sites for cancelations and be ready to go if they find one, otherwise the park loses out on the rental. Or, give a credit on some level for a future reservation. Worth a try to see if that solves the issue. I feel like it would solve the issue in Missouri.
The logical answer is a first come first serve policy. Reserved campsites should cost double because that will cover the peak seasons when people are willing to pay double, and will limit reservations to only serious campers. No refunds.
As fellow campers who know how hard it can be to reserve a site people should do the right thing for the sake of it. However, they clearly don’t. The site/reservation system needs to make it as SIMPLE and seamless as possible for people to cancel their reservations.
Perhaps some simply need reminders of their reservations a week or two prior since many book months in advance. And a text is better than email, imo.
The best solution may be for the website to be updated every 24 hours. Allow campsites to be let go and if rebooked during the originally reserved slot the og camper is offered a refund (perhaps minus a “restocking fee”). Camping is one of the natural joys we have left.
There is a site where campers list days and sites that they want to cancel. Individuals should be able to contact that person directly to book the site not have to compete at 8 am the following morning for the site.
Or a special site for cancelled reservations with site number and days- and one can go to that site directly to get a site- at any time of the day or night.
Most people would be motivated to notify the park of cancellation (even right up to the day of cancellation) if the cancellation policy would include at least SOME amount of refund and/or SOME amount of credit toward a future stay. That would enable the park to collect the full rate from someone else who would be able to book the site at the last minute, as well as the park getting to keep most of the amount that was paid by the party who had cancelled. Win-Win-Win: The cancelling party gets something for their effort to cancel, another camper gets to book it, and the park nearly doubles their revenue for the same site.
Well I think it’s possible to re issue sites based on no shows within a 24 to 48 hour window with no refund. The park is aware if people do not show within a certain timeframe because of check in procedures. I think there are a certain percentage of folks who just reserve to keep sites open as an option but it sure makes it difficult for a lot of people who do want to camp. Experienced this no show no vacancy several times now and are tired of having to camp on the side of the road. Something needs to change !
I vote no refund, but maybe a $5 voucher towards the website the campsite was booked on (recreation.gov, reserveamerica.com, etc.) to help entice freeing up those sites last minute which would allow new users to reserve. I feel this would be especially useful for particularly popular sites and around holidays. This would encourage future reservations and maybe occasionally double income on a site or two.
I am hugely disgusted with this happening in CA parks and national. ways to suggest and in combination. 24 hour prior notice Cancels open up for walk-ins. If person does not show in 24hours of first night open for walk ins and whole reservation is canceled after and open for booking. The 6 month prior rolling reservation is not working for majority of people and is a reason for high cancellations. Habitual cancellations from a persons home address (not login) gets penalties of not being able to book again for the same months of upcoming year. Full refund on cancellations minus booking fee.
Instead of rebates, penalties. Federal parks should charge no show penalties. And use the collected penalties to lower camping fees in general. And if a no-show exists open the site to first come first serve. Maximize revenue, Maximize use minimize costs to those that don’t reserve and hold just incase the weather is nice
Why not let customers notify the campground that they won’t be there. They get a 50% refund IF the site is rented out. The campground gets 150% on that site. The canceled person gets a 25% refund if someone trades up to their cancelled spot. From a complete loss to just partial and the campground benefits, too.
No refunds at 72 hour mark. If no show after 48 hrs of first day, open the site to first come first served.
My understanding is some of these sites allow you to book 6 months in advance for 14 days by computer. If you want the fourth of July you must be the first to book and book it on December 21 st. And book for June 20 th through July 4th even if you only want the 4th. You can not cancel any of those days without loosing some of the cost. Lots of these sites are empty for large portions of reserved times which saves a lot of labor for the parks bringing in more profit. Advance booking no further out than one week and first come first serve sites would be seldom empty.
I’m sure someone has probably already suggested it, but why not have a forum to match up people with paid reservations who can’t use them with those who want to visit but there is no availability? Maybe have a small surcharge to cover costs, then set it up where the reservation can be transferred? It seems like a no-brainer to me.
Probably start to see camp site scalping if it’s not already happening. I could go in reserve all of the spaces. And flip those sites at a profit .
Charge more, and if they no show charge them double.
Agreed, there must be consequences for actions. Offer a no refund past 30 days prior and if no show and haven’t canceled or even been heard from after 30 days they get a big bill just for being a dip ass
Charge full cost plus a extra fee for no shows. And as others said if they haven’t showed in a given time say 12 hrs it goes back up for a first come first serve.
We have a difficult time getting desired rv camping reservations in Oregon. I think reservations should be paid for in advance and refunds given if done within 24 hours of stay. Too many people book large blocks of time then don’t use the camp sites. It is very frustrating. If a no show within 48 hours….first come first served. Parks could get double fees.
Reservation.gov software SHOULD be able to handle a cancellation of a site reservation giving a refund on a graduated scale based on the number of days in advance you cancel (ie 10% for 1 day, 20% for 2, etc) and then release that site back to the reservation pool of available sites once the refund transaction has been processed. That’s easy software coding.
Change the policy, if you’re not there by a certain time, camp site may be given to someone else. It’s not rocket science. Also update your program to allow for no shows.
Technically, they PAID for it, it’s theirs. Not a solution.
Not if they didn’t show.
Don’t show up, you lose it.
But I read earlier that someone’s RV broke down. They had the spot rented for 8 days. RV was in the shop for two days but they still went there for the last 6 days. So I’m not sure your solution works either.
That’s a situation where you call and explain what is going on. Speak calmly, no ranting, and tell them what your plan is. You will probably get a sympathetic ear. That’s a lot better than just not showing up and leaving the site empty with no notification.
In a similar situation, just last week we showed up and someone was in our site. After talking with the office and the camper, we found he had a stuck slide and was desperately trying to get it fixed. He even offered to pay for our site because of the inconvenience. He was great and we sympathized. Instead of getting all pissy, we went to another site.
Stuff happens. Communicate the best you can.
– No “fees” on cancellations
– 50% refund on cancellations 7+ days ahead of checkin (no change fee applied)
– $0 refund if cancelled inside 7 days (no change fee)
– Track no shows (no cancellation notice). Three strikes, you’re out rule. 3 recorded “no shows” in an yearand you are blocked from making new reservations for 12 months from 3rd offense.
Also: Designate a minimum 30% of camp spaces to “first come” campers
–
Offer to give a credit for a future use, if the reservation is canceled within 24 hours.
First come first serve was always the best and it still is
That does not work for us. I’m not driving 3 and a half hours and not have a site. Who would do that.
Can you do a check in. If you don’t check in within 48 hours of the beginning of hour reservation you lose 50% and you put the site back up for availability
There is a somewhat simple solution. Campers can cancel. If tge site is rebooked and paid for, the original booking receives a credit back. If not, they receive no refund. This would allow the park to maintain revenue and others the opportunity to enjoy the empty sites.
So on the campers side here is a situation we had. On the way to a park, we had an issue with our rv. We had an 8 night reservation. We had to put it in a shop for 2 nights and stay at a motel. We still showed up for 6 of the nights stay. That meant 2 nights our site was empty. When putting our rig in the shop we didn’t know how long it would be 1 night or 2 or? But we still wanted to go once rv was fixed. Campground still got it’s money even though we were late.
Add a ‘try to fill my site’ option. Canceling a reservation online < 4 days out doesn’t entitle you to a refund unless someone else reserves it.
Perhaps they could offer a partial refund and a credit towards a future reservation.
Keep the existing refund policy, but if they no-show, they forfeit the site after a certain time (24 hours?) and it becomes available to others.
This, check in by a specific time or call to notify of a late check-in. If no show no call, forfeit your reservation and others can grab it after 6pm. Easy peasy.
Easy free reschedule policy. In lieu of refund. Most people would rather change the dates of their stay, than forfeit the entire amount.
Allow people to conditionally cancel on short notice. Once a reservation is conditionally cancelled, the site can then be available again for others to reserve and if someone else takes the spot and pays the fees, the original reserver gets a full refund. If not, then the cancellation isn’t completed and the original reserver doesn’t get a refund but could still use the reservations if they wanted or at least it would be no different for them than not showing up. It create an easy way to get people refunds and open up more sites, without costing the campground money in lost fees. The program could be online only to avoid tying up staff too.
If the site is not occupied by the next checking day, release it as a first come first serve. Charge your regular fees. We have seen empty spots alot.
This is 2024, all reservations should be made electronically, not by phone calls.
Refunds should be processed quickly and sites released to new reservations quickly.
No shows without notification for late arrival should be made available to local campers after a predetermined amount of time.
It’s unacceptable to keep open sites unoccupied with such high demand for recreation sites.
Thank you.
Not everyone has access to the internet or a phone even though technically yes it is 2024. And plus if they already paid for the week and they no show. Then so what… They still paid for it….
How about if you dont cancel and no show you get charged double and therefore even if you cancel last minute you can still save money by being considerate to the campsite for walk ups and still perhaps recoup some money. If you cancel before 48 hours and your site can be resold you should get a partial rebate perhaps 50 percent. If you cancel less than 48 hours. You could also possibly get a partial refund if the site is resold. Perhaps 25 percent. If you hold a site and are delayed showing up it would be on you to inform of a late check-in. I think if you save a site for a long time and cancel even a week before you should lose a deposit perhaps 25 percent.
The total amount of reservation should be paid at time of booking with no refunds. Require a validation 7 days before a reservation; otherwise, the reservation is cancelled, and available for anyone else to reserve. Also, if someone is still a no-show by 8am of the 2nd day, add a surcharge and open the spot for someone else.
Easiest way, as others seem to have pointed out, is if a no show occurs, then the party has 24 hours from time of check in to claim their site. Give them the option to call if they’ll be late (bad weather, car trouble, things happen), and then make the site FCFS for the remainder of the stay. Won’t help a ton for Friday -Sunday campers looking for spots, but it’s better than nothing.
I also like the idea of forcing people to be courteous by just charging more if people don’t show up and don’t cancel. Charge a no show fee!
My thoughts exactly, on every point!
This is an interesting point. One way to make sure people call to release their site is to have no-shows banned from the system the next year. Done by license place and credit card number
A “rain check” would be an idea, if you cant make it for your reservation call the park let them know and if someone wants to take the space during your yoir reservation period you get a “credit” for future use.
I would setup a system where the campsite can be released and a partial refund given if a standby reserves it. Not everyone would benefit but it’s a start.
If their spot was filled by another camper, give them a full refund. If it isn’t, then use the other refund schedule. The possibility of a refund will get them to release the campsite, but no guarantee of a refund if the site isn’t filled will give the park the money it needs.
Refunds are not a big concern for most RVers. We sold our camper because we had to have reservations every time we wanted to go camping. Sometimes you like to do things a little more freely. Maybe they should try having some reserved for reservations and some available for those spur of the moment types. I think that is a win- win combination.
If a site is paid for it is paid for. The reserving party is out the money. 14 day notice you receive a full refund. 13-7 day notice you receive a 50% refund. 6 day or less notice you get a 25% refund. Last minute reservations are full price
From a business perspective, the money is in their pocket and they incur less wear and tear on their property so it’s a win-win for them!
From a user perspective, it sure does stink seeing an awesome spot open the whole time you’re camping.
A couple things I’ve seen.
– keep 10% of the spots as FCFS
– if they no show without contact, release the spot to the waitlist by checkout time the next day
– Be a “first right of refusal” location, current campers get to choose if they want to stay same time next year; spots are released by 3p on Sunday
– book weeks only, open spots for weekends are released 10 days in advance
Easy. If you aren’t at the site by a particular time, your reservation will be canceled. Give them 24 hours, even. That allows people who have had difficulty on the road to still have their vacation. But sites should be freed up for casual campers who decide to get out for a few nights. Bonus? Rewrite the reservation policy that people who call to release their site will be refunded a portion of the days that the site gets rebooked.
Everyone on here has great ideas but you are missing 1 thing. People will then stay for X amount of days. Meaning instead of staying the weekend or a week or 2, you’ll find them staying for a month or 2 months or what ever. People don’t give a rats pattoot about anyone else except themselves. They will settle down in a camp spot and unless told to leave by park officials, they will stay for a long as they can. Even into the winter months and the following year. If a person(s) can squat on or in a place, trust me, they will and for as long as they possibly can. Just saying. Need to implement a period of days that they can stay.
Agreed!
Then they should be charged, month to month, but have a designated area, not a weekend camp site.. jus sayin…we camp on Crown land, and only for weekends…
Easy fix: IF a person reserves and is a no show and they didn’t cancel, charge them for the reservation PLUS another no show/no cancel fee. We need to encourage campers to cancel if they aren’t going to show and a no show fee might do the trick.
Empty sites are inevitable with a reservation system that does not incentivize cancellations.
Why call and cancel if you can’t get a full refund?
🎯 Optimize supply side for refunds and demand side (locals/travelers) with an easy first-come-first-serve option.
1️⃣ Cancel before 24 hours >>> full refund.
2️⃣ Cancel day before daily checkin time >>> full refund for nights that(if) site is claimed.
3️⃣ No call or cancelation request (doesn’t have to be for the full stay) 24 hours after original check in time, reservation forfeit for each day of no-show and FCFS applies.
4️⃣ No cancellation for reservations ‘longer than 2 nights’ or ‘booked for more than 10 days’ >>> a 100% ‘no show fee’ charged to the card on file and your account is blocked from the reservation site for 90 days (though enforcing this likely has a negative ROI)
1 and 2 incentivizes canceling your reservation. You have to want to cancel your reservation more than not not bother. That’s the biggest problem.
3 allows for flexibility on large reservations when they aren’t used anyways, with no refund, but doesn’t completely do away with the first right of refusal the reserved should have.
4 negatively incentivizes people that booked long stays over 10 days ago, abusing the digital reservation system, and didn’t even bother to cancel. Financial negative and user experience negative – although enforcement wouldn’t be feasible outside of an online account block.
Have a system where you can ask to cancel, and the site is opened. If someone rents it, you get 80% refund. Park earns 20% bonus. No-one takes it, no refund.
Simple.
Forget the refund. Put a clause in the reservation that states “if you’re not occupying your campsite by x time, the site will be made available to the next person seeking a reservation” – or something like that. I personally think it’s ridiculous to expect a refund when you didn’t meet your end of the reservation.
I agree with this idea but with a reasonable time period of maybe 24 hrs. This will allow for travel complications/ health problems while traveling. The camp grounds need to have a no hassle way to address this issue without all of the % refunds within a certain time period. These complicated time cut offs are interesting but too time consuming for day to day operations of the campgrounds. No show , no cancellation = loss of reservation $$ for the offending party.
Some sort of forum for offering reservations for last minute cancellations from the actual “owners” of the reservation without penalty for switching/cancelling within the time frame.
A waiting list. If there’s another camper ready to pay for a stay then y’all still get your money and can give refund to the one who cancelled.
Refunds up to 3 days ahead. Staff calling people in advance to confirm reservation. Reminder emails for those with reservations to cancel if not coming, maybe provide a 1-800 number with real person for speedy resolution. Some of the rest of us would snap up open sites in a heartbeat.
Offer on their website a section where guests can announce that they would like to transfer their reservation. Only charge admin fees if they find someone to take their full reservation
As the problem becomes worse, Ive often wondered about an online trade in system, or “last minute deals” maybe like a Paypal system when a last minute person like me could buy their site up at 75% of the cost and it goes right to the person who reserved so the camp site isnt out. Good luck!
People sell the spot for more than the original amount but hide it by going through the system for part of the payment and then recieve an e-transfer for the balance they have negotiated with the buyer. That’s why this idea won’t work.
No refunds unless done 7 days prior. If no show after 12 hrs then make site available. It would stop the no shows in time but would generate more money for the parks at the end of the years.
Not fair to ones that will enjoy a site, they reserve, and not show, should be charged double…or they could just buy a chunk of land
I paid for a campsite but left early. I put a note on the post for the next camper to take my spot, free of charge.
That’s very cool, Kristine! Thank you for doing that.👍 Have a great day. 😀 –Diane at RVtravel.com
Offer a full refund if the site rents because of a late cancellation. If not, the current refund policy stands. People would stop no showing fir a possible refund.
People who consistently don’t show up for campsites need to be penalized. This could work if campground hosts reported the empty campsites back to recreation.gov who could keep an automated database of no shows. After x number of no shows the person would not be allowed to reserve a camp spot through recreation.gov for predetermined amount of time.
Do not allow no show campers to book sites in the future.
They paid for that campsite. Why should they be penalized for using it as they please? If they sleep in a tent, under the stars, or in a hotel room, it shouldn’t matter because they paid for that campsite already. What needs to be done is some form of partial refund being offered for late cancellations and nearly full refunds if the campsite is rented by someone else.
Do what hotels do. We get free hotel rooms from our favorite casino. If you don’t check in by 8pm on the first day you lose your rsvp.
Allow standbys for camp sites. Much the same as airlines do.
Offer no refunds period if canceled 3 days out, only a credit for some other time if canceled 5 days out.
I would put the folks that don,t have the courtesy to cancel on a black list.maybe they would think twice about being inconsiderate
There are two reasons why they shouldn’t and can’t do that. One, they don’t know why the people didn’t show up. If the campers had an emergency or an accident then how is that their fault? Two, if they paid for the campsite, legally they can use it or not use it as they please. It stinks to see an empty campsite but that campsite is also paid for by someone that is using it how they want to.
Non-refundable deposits. Start at $100.00.
Sublet the vacant spots (re-rent) if the renter is a no show. Take half of the now double profits and refund to original renter up to 1/2 of their rental amount. Have this as an option if the original renter calls in to cancel/swap and a last minute renter can be found for the spot. We really need to start thinking outside the box for solutions that benefit everyone.
If the reserver doesnt call or show for 24 hours they should lose the sight and then someone else can rent it.
But if someone else has already paid for the site it is legally theirs for the amount of time that has been paid. Obviously everyone in favor of people losing their reservation has never had problems arise and live in an area with no cell service!
If I reserve it, a year in advance, I expect it to be available when I show up!
Then show up. Don’t reserve 10 different campgrounds and then a week before your vacation decide which one to keep.
No more reservations is the only answer. First come,first serve is always the best approach.
I agree. This does make it much easier for everyone.
Offer a full refund if someone else reserves the site. No refund if no one ever does.
Find the win win. The goal is to fill the campground so that the most people can enjoy the outdoors. So…create a waiting list such that if someone wants the campsite then the original reserver gets a full refund. Win-win. Campsite is used and paid for. This should work even for short notice cancelations.
This is a great idea! Waitlisting with a 24 hr notice (if the first person on the list does not respond within 24 hours, the next person is then eligible) would encourage people to cancel in a timely manner and can be automated.
First come, first served. This is how we used to do it 30 years ago. No booking ahead. Prepay when you check in. No spots left? You get to stay in overflow.
This problem can be fixed or mitigated. But the park probably doesn’t want to fix it because it’s less work for the Rangers and support staff if they are 100% booked but only 90% of the people show up. Less customers means less work. No motivation to solve the problem. Or no problem to solve as far as the workers go. Basically you need to overbook a percentage of the no shows like air lines do and you need a large list of people who can be contacted quickly via text about openings. This problem is easy to solve if you put the customer first.
Last year my family went camping, and the people next to us we obnoxious. They left the second day into our 4 day stay. We reserved the site to have more privacy. I know it wasn’t exactly the most kind thing to do, but this particular park was known for loud generators, and rowdy campers. We had our kids and dog with us and wanted our space.
A way to reduce some of the empty sites is to offer a 25 percent refund for less than 4 day notice cancellations with a 80 to 95 percent refund if the site is rented by someone else for that time period. The 5 to 20 percent not refunded would be for administrative and processing cost.
As an advid camper myself we have encountered this issue… the article was correct when it said that the refund policy is harder. But the cost is not that large that when we dont go we just eat it… so when you have a reservation that does not show up the reservation should be cancelled within an adequet time period 12 hours after check in time and opened as a first come first serve or to those that would do a last minute camp like us. Maybe pulled off a waiting list.
Check in should be online and done otherwise u lose your spot… its really sad when we go camping and its empty but all the spots are reserved.
I suggest that if someone doesn’t cancel and doesn’t show up to camp site by 7pm. Then they should be able to re-rent out that site to a drop in camper. The money they get for the NO shows goes toward camp ground improvements.
But if you are traveling from far and can’t get there by 7 you should make it possible to contact the host to let them know your ETA so you don’t lose the site.
Georgia DNR has a “No Show” option that if someone hasn’t checked in by the day after their reservation starts, we have the right to use. Put it in your policy that if someone doesn’t check in and doesn’t occupy the campsite a full 24 hours after check in time, their reservation is voided and they get no refund. If you offer rewards points, they don’t get them either.
If you don’t offer rewards points, you should. It encourages people to utilize the same reservation account. Then you could offer a free cancellation on that account each year and potentially save a lot of headache, and no one could argue you’re not being reasonable. You cancel for an illness or vehicle issue? That’s your freebie. It fixes a lot of issues while minimizing your cancellations and also give people reasons to camp with YOU instead of other campgrounds.
I am camping as I type this. My sight is horrible with a minimum 20 degree slope to it on sand. Jacks and blocking continue to sink in. I booked in March for July 5th to the 12th. The office says it’s all they have but many vacant sights in the park. $650 reservation. I am an events manager at a bowling alley, restaurant and arcade business. We have a generous 7 day cancellation policy or lose deposit. I personally call every reservation at least 7 days prior to confirm and restate policy. We understand life’s challenges but we are a business with major overhead and can’t allow empty lanes to meet our goals. If the client does a no show, they lose but so do we deposits are 40% of cost.
It’s a simple solution about changing the perception. They need to still encourage people to cancel last minute if they know they are not going to use it. Even if they don’t get a refund, let them know with a “thank you” for the donation and opening up the spot for others to potentially enjoy and also alliw for additional income to the park.
Ticketed events have solved this problem through their apps. Ticket holders can resell their tickets directly. This would allow highly reserved sites to be resold at a lower price. Park keeps original payment, patron resells for a portion through the online system, less empty sites. Win win. Ticket master does this and they do it for many colleges in integrated apps, Resell options are displayed to the public in the same location as open (or fully booked) sites.
If folks don’t show up by 6 pm for reservations, let it go to standby. Explain to standby, they may have to vacate or make refund to people who show late. Put this in your reservation policy.
The easiest solution is to make reservations billable upon arrival just like hotels do. Your reservation holds it for a day, and you are billed that day whether or not you show. The computer then opens the site up for new rentals.
If the original renter is going to be late (travel breakdowns) then they need to rebook like anyone else.
You have to check out to get your bill settled – if you do not, for every day the site is empty your rate goes up 10%. This solves the refund dilemma at the expense of park cash flow, but if more people are now available to access them, and if there are early departures without checkout, there is still revenue (with a penalty).
As I see it, the system should allow person 1 to offer up their reservation to the public in an attempt to do 4 things:
#1 get them out of paying for a reservation that they will no longer use
#2 allow them to get some or all of their money back
#3 fill the campsite
#4 not use any additional park resources such as reservation staff time
The solution, use the current online reservation system to allow person 1 to offer up the spot to other users. Person 1 shoupd be allowed to set the price from free ($0) up to the price they paid,no price scalping allowed. If another person wants to reserve the spot it will now look like any other reservation to person 2.
Ontario provincial parks allow you to transfer your site to someone else. You can’t charge more than what you paid. They don’t do it for you but there are two Facebook pages, one for cancellations and another for people looking for cancellations. This has not resulted in any visible change in the number of vacant sites and there are always a lot more people looking for a site than those who want to cancel.
Institute a new confirmation policy. Campers must confirm their reservation one to two days ahead or they lose their spot to someone else coming in. Like Dr’s offices will do.
Allow folks to resell their reservation. They’ve basically purchased a ticket to an event (camping) so they should be able to transfer that “ticket.” So a secondary market could be created whereby it’s win-win. For those who no longer want their reservation they can make it available to others. In many cases this might even get them their entire reservation cost back, or more. And it opens up opportunity to others.
I would be concerned that opening a secondary market would invite people to reserve sites they never intend to use solely so that they can resell them at a profit. Same phenomenon you see with concert and sports tickets.
The park has to manage it and get a fee.
As noted in other posts, an automated exchange or wait-list would avoid scalping.
Seems that the answer is for the administrative process (as in the employees which are supposed to run these parks) need a more active and involved or better-automated software which actively completes the daily task of verifying/refunding and updating the vacancy of reservations to increase both profit AND patron experience.
Tl:dr;
Management needs to manage better the process of accurate communication and public awareness to availability.
The camper who paid for the reservation, akin to owning football tickets . Nobodies business if the owner uses or not.
Like a concert ticket, you make a reservation and pay for it, it’s your responsibility to find someone else to pay you for that space if you decide not to use it. It’s not the campground owner’s problem. Site availability could be incorporated into the website.
Camps shouldn’t increase or widen refund amounts or windows. Campsites need to stay affordable-so no additional money should be refunded to cancellations. That is, no changes to the current refund amounts and time frames.
Make all cancellations possible online to free up phone lines. I was required to call in to cancel with Alum Creek campground Ohio.
Include messages educating campers how their no-show wo cancellation impacts other campers. Have this note come on the screen when someone makes a reservation. Have it on your websites with a picture of empty camp sites. Have it in text/email notifications regarding reservation reminders. Require confirmation via text 48hrs before camp date
Group of families reserve a block of camping sites with additional sites as buffers and to provide for last minute friends that desire to join the woody celebration. Same as an extra ticket to the Ohio state Michigan game.
I too am a frustrated camper as I usually decide last minute with the weather. The reservation system makes me not want to camp anymore. I don’t know what the refund system has anything to do with it. As with a hotel, if you don’t check in the first day without notice, you lose your reservation and money and then the empty spot can go as a first come fist serve since reservations have to be made in advance. Then the campground would earn twice the money for the spot. Not that complicated an issue.
If the reserver needs to cancel they get a reduced return on ther purchase so to get a full return the campground should state if we can book the site for the entity of the stay with which the booking was for the can give the full return after the new booking is completed that way the campground doesn’t go broke and the refunded can possibly recive a full refund the camp spot is not left empty and no one is cheating the system by upsetting. If the spot does not get booked then the refunded still only receives a half refund. It is the responsibility of our own self’s to be responsible with our plans not the campground if want to have campgrounds that are affordable then we need to suck it up.
Why can’t the camp hosts, at the 8 am walk around, note unoccupied sites and have the reservations canceled? A quick phone call to someone in administration should do it. Require 1st night occupancy to avoid cancelation. That would take care of much of it (most people are not doing 1 night reservations). It would also encourage people to change their reservations, if the schedule a block and only need a few days, to avoid having their whole stay cancelled.
Make it clear that last minute cancellations may result in a refund if two conditions are met. If the campground is completely full and someone else books that spot. It would all need to be automated on the website. This would encourage people to cancel in the hopes that they might possibly get a refund.
The solution seems fairly simple to me. If the camper doesn’t show up by a set time, the whole reservation is cancelled.
Offer a 10% discount on a future reservation if they release the site at least 2 days prior so it can be used instead of sitting vacant.
Give warnings that not showing up within 24 hours of your reservation they may be moved to a less desirable spot.
Campgrounds should have a check in time where if you haven’t checked in by 6pm on the day of first day of reservation, their reservation is void and those campers who decided to hang around till after 6pm will have options to pull in and pay for the site. Really, the campground will get the site paid for twice. Have it clear during reserving that you must check in by 6pm or risk not having your site, and no refund.
What if you keep the same no-refund policy, but set up a ‘transfer board’ option where people who need to reschedule for whatever reason can post their reservation as ‘available to transfer,’ another camper can ‘buy’ it from them and that way they either get an effective refund by ‘selling’ it to someone who can use it, or a ‘swap’ by having the other camper ‘trade’ them a new reservation on the date they can use?
Charge like $5 per transfer, some really low, nominal amount, have the transfer fees go to some purely charitable fund at each campsite, something everybody loves, cap the reservation fee at sticker price to prevent scalping, and it’ll be lovely. Good way to make friends, too.
Do away with reservations and go back to first come first served. Park makes money and we can keep our parks.
1 site per reservation/household for a max of 1 week. I know people who reserve prime spots for the whole summer only to show up on the weekends they chose or simply park their camper there for friends and family to come and go.
We tent camped across the US for 2 weeks. This would have meant we could not have camped at more than 2 sites, but we were only at each campground 2-3 days. This is a terrible idea and would have put us in a huge bind. There are better ideas
This article has partially explained the cancellation/refund policy but failed to offer any explanation as to why once a cancellation is made, why the site does not then become available. Since the park has the ability to earn additional revenue from renting the now available space, the camper looking for a site could now camp there. Another suggestion may be a ‘cut-off’ arrival time which would make the site available after 5~6:00?
Simple solution: anyone who no shows after making a reservation is prohibited from reserving for minimum 1 year.
Don’t change refund. For no shows, same account/address can’t book until a week after bookings open for everyone else for a year. To avoid this penalty, cancel anytime in advance.
1) No call, No show: by 24-hr post initial check in, lose reservation and $, spot is open for first-come-first served. 2) After 2 or 3 no call, no show in 12 months (6 months?) locked out of reservation system for 12 months.
Send text message alerts once a day in the three days leading up to the start of the reservation with options 1-Confirm 9-Cancel, just like restaurants do.
Easy, if you don’t check-in by a certain time you lose it, You lose your deposit if if no show. If it happens to often you lose ability to reserve in future, many of these campgrounds loose money because they also make money from the camp store.
Why not a page where people can post last minute plan changes, and someone else can step in and buy out the spot or offer up a spot to someone looking? If it is all done through the exchange site, then the park will know the updates to a reservation, and no one loses out on the money. Bonus is that less sites will sit empty.
If you want people to respect you and cancel so others can use the spots, then you have to treat them with respect too. No refund for late cancellations leaves no reason to bother for people. It’s always about greed, and the policy in action is the reason for the problem. There are people who want to camp but cannot because they didn’t make their reservation a year in advance, which is stupid. And no refunds for late cancellations is just rude. Cancellation notification equals refunds works. I say 10% fees at the most for late cancellations, no fee for a week or more before cancellations, and leave the spaces open for others to drop in and use. Make camping accessible again.
Yep I agree. We saw a lot of people leaving early on our last trip and had no plans to release the site. Yes it was supposed to rain and yes we had a few drops then it cleared up beautifully.
Camping doesn’t mean perfect
weather.
The reservation process is computerized. Why don’t they send a text to confirm the reservation?
Offer a full refund at anytime if the campsite ends up getting booked.
Why not have a post board where people who can’t use their reservation post and someone who can takes the reservation
Too many reserved sites. Need more open sites. We would use more,but if we don’t reserve, we get kicked out for the weekend crowd. A lot of us seniors feel the same.
Technology can assist by using a wait-list feature that might be applicable here. A person can get on the wait-list for a specific site or even multiple sites and if the original renter wants to release their hold for all or some of the reservation, they can do so to a willing wait-lister. The wait-lister can pay the original renter a pro-rated amount and either accept or pass to the next wait-lister. It’s like a sublet and no one is out money if they don’t want to be. Liability passes to the wait-lister as well.
Similar to my comment, I like the wait list idea.
Two things I suggest not allowed to reserve a specific campsite and if they don’t arrive the first day the reservations are lost. In essence run it like a hotel. Second a link in the park for people to list there reservations for resale. This way they can get rid of there site without losing money. Secondly the park is still gaurenteed the site income
Sure, just what we need, campsite scalpers
Yeah, not resale just exchange – first camper gets their reservation back (maybe less some cancelation fee) and second gets the spot.
Sorry have to disagree because some campers need a specific site to fit their camper
Like rental housing, a tenant on a lease who moves before the end of a lease owes rent to the end of the lease, unless, in good faith, the landlord re-rents the unit. If a camper wants a refund due to cancellation, there should be a means by which they notify the campground, and if the campground is able to fill the campsite with a new camper, everyone wins. The campground gets their money, the 1st reservation gets a refund, and the 2nd camper gets the campsite, and no sites go unoccupied. Problem solved.
It’s simple go back to first come first serve for most sights and only have a few reserved sites. If you are a no show after 24 hours you lose your spot period. These reserved systems suck at best and it’s not fair to actual camping people who want to go camping.
I noticed this trend a couple years ago. People reserving campsites, sometimes numerous ones even though they know they may not use them. As long as there is no penalty for reserving a campsite and not using it, than this will continue
Seems very simple to me.
If a site is reserved, it will have a check in time.
If the reservation holder does not sow within 3 hours after that time, does not call, message or email, then the site is open to first takers at a hefty discount.
Campsite posts a no.show.board, right outside the office. Most will be gone before its dark
Maybe the park won’t have to discount. I think anyone if they knew this new system was in place would pay the current fee. I like last minute camping and would be willing to pay. I am on a very limited budget. I tent camp not RV and am running into this same issue.
I think the only way to alleviate the problem of unused sites when others are clamoring for them is a large penalty on the credit card they reserve with. There would have a line in the reservation system that states that making a reservation indicates you have read and agreed to the no show charge so they cannot dispute it with their credit card company. I think, sadly, that too many places are happy to take the money with fewer campers to take care of and clean up after.
Yep, a large deposit only refundable if they show up. This would make it difficult for low income campers though.
Create a campsite exchange so that sites that would otherwise be canceled, if not for the refund policy, can be picked up by another camper. The park collects a small fee, the site is used, everyone is happy.
Then you would have some people or corporations turning it into the same problems as event tickets. They would just book everything or at least the best sites the second they became available and resale them at double the price. There is no perfect system but I do believe the best system is to penalize no-shows.
Yep,I have to agree with this!
Put the “No Shows” on a ” No Reservations” list for one season.
The parks should have it in their contract that a no show with no call reverts to being available after 24 hours.
Maybe send out a reminder message like when you book an appointment. “Still coming this weekend?” When answered “No” an auto refund of however much is applied without the hassle of signing in or calling. I feel people would be more likely to easily reply when reminded, oh ya I guess we aren’t going this weekend, rather than going out of their way to save a few bucks. Prompt the campers I suppose.
We actually get a reminder from our State Park and 2 other private campgrounds we utilize out of state. Not that we canx but it’s nice to see that come in and know there hasn’t been a glitz in the system and our site hasn’t been given away.
Does any one else have an issue where you pay up to $25 to hold the site you really want?
Because I do but if you have a lg 5th wheel like we do then you don’t want stuck in any site.
Why wouldnt a simple 1st come policy. Youve got 25 campsites, all reserved. Youve reserved a site now, not a specific site. First ones with reservations, go on in, pick your site. No shows lose reservation money, and a call list to see about filling what is still available for the next nights…
The main solution here that most should be upvoting would be for campsite personnel to register how often reserved campsites are not being utilized after the fact and then adjust their camping spots by site accordingly. If this is occurring all too often, allocate more of the reserved spots as open spots, especially if the site is noticing that they are having to turn away a good number of visitors looking for open sites.
However this logic is counterintuitive to the state’s want for the reservations booking and the guaranteed money that accompanies it.
Know this answer won’t be liked by many, if not most, posting here because the most common solution proposed or upvoted here is that if the reserver does not check in by a certain time, they should lose their reservation but I don’t agree with that mindset. They made a reservation for however long (say a week.) As long as they paid for that week and didn’t cancel their reservation, it should be held open for that amount of time whether they are present or not.
Now cancellations are a different story.
(See second post below this one for continuation of this post.)
Whether the renter shows up or not is irrelevant: the site is not available. What’s there to get mad about? You aren’t in a bad spot because other people didn’t show up. You have a bad spot because you booked late. When people skip their reservation the park makes the same money, but the campground is less busy,and there’s wear and tear on facilities.
Obviously you don’t go to state parks or reserved camping…most sites are reserved almost a year out & people who do this also reserved several spots on the same dates. You should only be allowed to reserve 1 spot under your name per same date. Also with the internet they should be able to release that spot if the customer is canceling immediately…they can take the money ey from your account immediately
I understand it’s frustrating when you want that spot that someone else has paid for but not using. I agree there should be an easy way to transfer your reservation like with concert tickets. You can’t attend, sell reservation to get your money back. However everyone getting this upset over unused campsites seems over the top to me when in comparison, how many homes are sitting empty, paid for while many sleep in the streets. This is where our concerns as a society should be
Also one of our local COE was using the good old buddy system,instigated by a lady whom has monopolized a prime camping spot for over 20yrs pretending to be a host but driving around doing nothing. This CC did not take reservations….so along with this lady and the regulars would let their buddies know we are leaving on this day and this time and sure enough another camper was waiting to take that prime spot. So last yr it was changed to you can only book 4 days in advance…um right my hubby drove up on his motorcycle & this lady says oh I don’t care what the new rules are,I am going to get my regulars in.
We normally stay away from Ccs were people feel like they own it.
another self centered person who can not be bothered with everyone else. I seem to remember a phrase from an out of touch royalty who said “let them eat cake” when bread was not available. shame on you for your poor attitude of self entitlement
Let the site be resold if someone fails to show by a certain check in time or doesn’t call to say they are running late.
Maybe an email or text confirmation. I have been on trips where we ended up a day late. But still wanted the site for the next morning throught the week.
They need to create an electronic system that allows the original reservation to offer it for a new reservation. If a new reservation takes the site then the original reserver gets their money back. This must be done online so is not to add to the work load.
Maybe an option for a donation contribution that applies to tax filing when a reservation must be cancelled or changed up to the night before the reservation stay begins? That way all sides win ..parks, incoming campers, and the no-shows turned into late cancellations with a verification form for tax filing showing the amount donated to the park system or directly to the park.
Try giving the RVer an incentive, With the right software, online reservations can do many things such as adding a wait list. When Rver# 1 withdrawals his reservation, he gets a refund minus a service fee. As long as space is sold.
The problem we see is the reservations are made without deposits, most made a year in advance, and have the luxury of cancel with 24 hour notice and no penalties.
This is easy. Once a campsite sits vacant for 24 hrs, the site can be opened up, and rented out. I.e…if site is reserved for Friday and Saturday starting at 3pm on Friday to 3pm on Sunday, and they don’t show up by 3pm on Saturday, then the site can be rented out, as the campers who reserved the site, and didn’t cancel, forfeit right to the site.
Habitual offenders (and there are a lot of them) should be barred from making reservations. That would eliminate no shows, encourage timely cancelations, and open up more sites for actual campers.
The best idea is If a camper doesn’t show up by 11:59 pm the 1st day of reservation, they forfeit that campsite and the rangers can rent it after midnight.
Wish it could work that way, but
If a person already bought the item
It can seat at the store for few days to be picked up
Its like this at every campsite. I went to two jack lake last year and I was on parks canada website ready to roll with the sites and dates I wanted at 6 am. Even though I was ready well before reservations going online I was still 1,102 in line to make a reservation. I barely got my 3rd pick option. When we got there, there was probably 15+ sites that were empty and lots of upset people that could only get one night. I think they should make it a rule where if you don’t check in by such and such time on your first night (or give them a heads up you’ll be arriving late) that your reservation is canceled and it becomes available for the public.
They should offer a partial refund for last minute cancellation if someone rebooks the site, this way people will be more inclined to cancel their reservation
Easy fix, I too get so da*n mad when people do that but if the campground would stop year or even 6 months reservations and keep all the money. Or even yet first come first served.
How about offering 80% refund if the campsite is rebooked? The 20% is admin fee to help pay the cost of a staff member to manage it.
Or… require a one night deposit at time of reservation and paid in full 30 days prior to camping date. Release site if not paid in full by deadline.
Part of problem is some people have to make advance arrangements to get off work or can take off during only during specific days of the month.
Limit the number of reservable sites and offer the rest on a first arrival basis.
Charge a no show fee. If reserved site is not occupied within a set time frame. The remaining reservation is canceled and the person is charge a fee. Could be a flat rate or a percentage of the total rental.
One night nonrefundable deposit.
I agree with alot of you about if a new reservation is made then they can get money back. Or even if they need to cancel, instead of money back, give like a chance to reschedule another time so money isn’t wasted and campsite could open up for someone else.
Add a heavy booking fee deposit that is refundable if you arrive at the campsite and occupy it or you cancel ahead of time. Individuals are only charged if they leave the site unoccupied without canceling.
Agree
Have an abandoned option which states that if your abandoned site is rerented by the system you receive a 1/3 credit towards future stays. Ex.if someone cancelled a 3 night stay non refundable and someone else then rented the previously reserved site for those 3 days the customer who was forced to cancel receives credit for one night on a future booking. This may take awhile to become common knowledge but it is advantageous for all parties including serving a promotion function. If implemented region wide it would allow for last minute campers to book desirable sites with no loss of revenue to the campground. Better optics and access.
This is a good idea. 👍
I was coming to say something similar. If you cancel and it gets rebooked then you get a portion. If there is a known waitlist you can call who can fit in the site. You have a full park. I see people on camping groups and I have myself posted that we just cancelled site such and such at “…” for this many nights when I know there isn’t a wait list. If I am going to miss the first night or be late I call and say we will be in tomorrow so they know in the office.
Have a decent portion of ALL campgrounds be FCFS. Additionally, as a handful of national parks do, allow a certain number of reservable campsites to be booked only two weeks in advance, the rest the standard 9 months, one year, whatever. Not everyone wants to plan a year out and would prefer to have at least some sense of spontaneity.
To add, agree 💯 that sites should be released and for rent if there is a no show, within a 24-ish hour timeframe.
If a site is reserved and not occupied the first night, the reservation is cancelled. As fcfs campers you can’t hold a site by putting just a chair in it so why should people be allowed to reserve and no show.
No refunds! Charge their credit card full freight for every reserved no-show day. That’s how campground operators can meet budget. C/G operators should feel free to charge double for no-shows who don’t cancel. No-shows are disrespecting the entire camping community. Cancellation with refund policy only early in the day. Multi-day res, no-show without timely cancellation first days, they lose that primo spot and have to take the lesser reassigned spot when they do show.
No refund within 7 days of reservation. No-shows get online reservation privileges revoked for 1 year based on license number/name of registered owner. You also must put your rig license plate (non-transferable) to avoid scalpers.
I plan my 2 month summer road trip 6 months out and will not stay anywhere without a reservation.
Wait-lists are helpful, but first come, first served is chaos! Hit abusers in the wallet and solve budget issues too.
If I don’t cancel my doctor’s appointment, I get fully charged and insurance won’t cover.
We must fix this or I won’t camp. Farragut St Park Idaho is “fully booked”. I stayed in a no hookup site for a week while there were empty sites. Frustrating.
Use the same cancellation and no show policy hotels use.
Maybe the cost of these campsites are out of control. We tried to find a campsite and first if all we had to reserve 2 weeks in advance. Lots of people can’t do that. Then the prices…holy moly! One was 115$ a nite for a piece of dirt with a firepit!
Add a “donate my site” option for those that cant show and are outside the cancellation time. This would make the site available for someone else to pick up (either by official re-reservation or first come first serve). Even better if the donate option could then literally be turned into charitable tax-free receipt. This would provide incentive for the canceller to close the loop and still make the sites available while not bogging down the system. Win. Win.
Add an additional fee for no show sites.
Allow for the potential of a full refund if the site is rebooked by someone else following a cancellation. Create a platform through reserve America whee folks can essentially “sell” their reservation to recoup costs of they don’t want it anymore.
The parks could also set up a required confirmation system where folks get a text/email a week/3 days/1 day in advance and if folks don’t confirm their reservation then they lose it.
Love that idea, I camped here in Idaho & got a reminder every month & then 1week out
I’m torn on the situation. I personally get frustrated when searching for reservations 6 months out and the locals jump in and reserve all the weekends. I then have to piece meal my trip moving every few days to get 1.5 weeks of camping. Then when present, the park is empty even though “fully booked”. But I’ve also been on the flipside with family emergencies at the last minute and things change. There needs to be an enforcement mechanism to discourage people abusing the system. I dont care if you have the money to waste. If I’m driving 15-20 hrs to get somewhere and I couldn’t reserve a good site, but they are all available, that’s just wrong. If parks truly can’t refund, then penalize them
Those locals in the case of state parks pay taxes that fund those parks so they should have a priority over someone out of town. Plenty of private campgrounds for you. Many states are already giving priority to state residents for camping just for that reason.
Allow a waiting list within the reservation system. If you have a site booked and someone else tries to book your site they are put on a wait list for it and you are alerted that someone else is on the wait lis for that site on that day. If you cancel with someone on the wait list they get your site and you get a full refund.
Great idea.
Few yrs ago for Memorial Day my husband said why don’t you call the camp office and see if there is a site….sure enough someone did just canx and we were able to get the site.
It’s called being considerate because they weren’t going to get a refund so late but they cared enough about other campers!
Create an on confirmation that includes estimated check-in time and (limited time) credit back for future use if cancellation is needed.
I would like to participate in a letter writing or calling to come up with a solution. Over the 4th of July week I was traveling up the Oregon Coast and experienced empty sites and the site I had was a last minute find for 1 night and not in the choice “empty” sites. I talked to a few different RV’ers and they were frustrated with the system too. Also I spoke with a State Park employee and they were frustrated too because they know people in their community who would love to have camped and couldn’t find a spot. It broke their hearts to see their local camp sites empty and their local friends not able to camp. Thank you soooo much for this article. I know we can make a change!
Offer a 50% back if the space is taken by someone else.
Change your refund policy so that if they cancel in less than 7 days, they will get a full refund only if you are able to resell the site to another RV’er and only for the number of days you are able to resell.
I cancelled 1 time before
And we didn’t get the full amount
Which I understand,
if the cancellation was a 2 or 1 week before the camp days,
But this was a month before
So… that’s kind of my question?
The answer to this issue, if no show campsites are available to paying customers 24 hrs out, and 72 hours, is canceled all remaining days of original reservation. Online reservation gets to move in to camp site within the 72 hours, reservations given after first booking is day by day.
Perhaps the policy could be that if people need to cancel within eight days and only get half a refund, offer a full refund if someone else takes the spot. That would incentivise people to cancel where now they might not because they only get the half refund. Also that would encourage someone who is, say, only seven days out and has to cancel, thus only getting a half refund, they would cancel right then so others have more opportunity to claim the site and they get the full refund, instead of waiting until the last minute to cancel because it doesn’t matter anyways as far as their refund is concerned.
I’m camping right now. I feel if people don’t show up they have 1 hour , and if they do not show up in 1 hour release, that site to first come first serve. So when checking is two if they don’t come by 3:00 you could release that site and they will make more money instead of having it sit for 24 hours and then no one’s showing up. There are so many water sites that are open right now that people didn’t show up but I could not use because they had 24 hours to show up. After the 24 hours they didn’t show up and I already had to move to a different site where I could stay my days that I was planning on staying.
1 hr is kinda tough due to circumstances out of your control. A call within 2hrs if arrival if delayed is more reasonable
You are missing a little detail here, somebody PAID for that spot, so if they are there or not is their business, not yours
Sounds like you’re one of those people that love reserving campsites just to be a no show so other people that actually want to camp cant because of selfish people like you!
Yeah, 1 hour is way too tight, but I do agree that the spot should be released after 12 to 24 hours if the person who reserved hasn’t shown up or at least called to say they are on their way. I could be 10 minutes from the campsite fixing a flat tire and then not make that 1 hour cut-off (and not all roads to campgrounds have cell service).
Elena, you keep asking why anyone should care if you’ve reserved/paid for a spot but aren’t there to use it… but why would you care if your reserved site gets used by someone else if you have no plan on showing up? How would allowing a family to use that spot that would otherwise sit empty impact you? Why do you care?
We camp all the time and see this problem everywhere. Several parks have come up with a solution that seems to be helping. People who fail to contact the park if they are going to be late or to cancel within 24 hours of the arrival date forfeit their site with no refund. This allows the park to release the site to someone else. The park keeps the old reservation cost and the new one, win win for the park.
Currently camping at Potters Creek in Canyon Lake Texas. The volunteer staff is extremely lazy, and the sub contractors who clean the bathrooms should be fired. It’s really hot so there are only about 10 rv’s in the entire park. You would think how hard could it clean.
Win win for the park is the solution?? Hahaha sure!
If the campsite is filled by another camper then ALL but 10% is refunded . The 10% covers admin cost for additional paperwork if refund
It seems the entire issue revolves around reservations, yes? Why use them at all? Go back to the first come, first served model and remove the booking process and phone calls entirely. It seems campgrounds instated an imperfect system, didn’t like it, and are now trying to force that system to work when the system itself is the actual problem.
If I pay for a site who cares if I’m there or not? People mind your own business! If I get no refund why would I cancel so they get paid twice for the same spot? Plus BC parks are not cheap considering that most of the campground barely have any amenity
So that others can enjoy the site.
It’s everybody’s business. You obviously don’t know what it feels like to want to camp but can’t due to already booked sites. Who cares anyway?…….Most folks do, that’s who!
this is a repeat response to another selfish camper further up the thread…
wrong…if this is how you behave in every day situations, wake up! you are not the only person on this world…very selfish attitude.
Oh Geez……who cares???? The person that really wanted to camp but did not have the option to book early!!!
Be kind to your fellow campers people like you are whats causing this mess to start with.
SMH
Elena imagine you’re a nurse like me who only knows their schedule 20 days in advance and all you want to do is camp outside and get some fresh air out of a hospital setting but people like you reserve the best site 6 months in advance and then never show up and now I can’t go do the one hobby that brings me joy and relaxes me after a stressful shift in the ICU. You are not the only person on this planet, be respectful to your other campers or just sell your camper and use a hotel. This world would be a better place if people weren’t so SELFISH!
I think it needs to go back to first come first serve at campgrounds. Be more tent friendly too and not just develop for big RV’s.
Create a list of site preferences (if this spot opens before I check-in, please move me here).
Impose a check-in time and update the cancelation policy.
Cancelations made prior to two weeks of check-in receive full refund. Cancelations made less than two weeks prior but more than 1 week can receive a partial refund OR full value credit toward a future stay. Cancelations less than a week prior or missed check-in will receive partial credit toward a future stay- no refund.
When a spot is now “available” due to cancel or missed check-in, those on the “wait-list” for that spot or similar are available.
Charge a deposit returned if you arrive or cancel
It is simple. If a person has more than one no show, all reservations for that year are automatically cancelled, and must wait 1 full year before they can make any future reservation’s.
Hold the space for 1st night, then cancel reservation if no show, keep 100%, and resell space for remainder of booking. That’s what hotels do. If guest calls and notifies site that they will be arriving late then they keep their space for late arrival. If you dont communicate a late arrival don’t be upset if you arrive and your space has been resold.
First come first serve. No reservation
Most people need to have plans made. We like going to Lake Erie but they did have a CC by the beach that did not take reservations. I know we were never going to chance towing a camper 4 hrs to hear sorry we are already full!!!!
Allow reservation holders to put their site(s) back into inventory. If someone books or stays in the site, the park charges a re-processing fee, and the original reservation holder gets a portion of their reservation fee back. While the park gets more revenue by charging the original rate to the new party.
Also allowing ‘last minute’ bookings example 24-72 hours with an expedition fee would help assure that those who really would use these sites, do end up using them.
The park gets additional compensation, and more sites are occupied.
That’s what I came to say!!
I like this a lot.. and it really could work
Allow cancellations at any time for no shows and offer “store credit” on future reservations at 80 percent that way sites are immediately available for last minute campers. Offer no credit for leaving campsite early but they should check out so that someone else can use it. People should understand when they reserve that that means nobody else can use it if they cancel and understand it’s going to cost them 20%, if they flake out.
Perhaps campgrounds should double their fees, and then discount the fee by 50% only when the person checks in. This would make it too expensive for people to make reservations they never intend to use
I also think it would be good for campgrounds to further increase fees during times of high demand (weekends and holidays) and to decrease fees during times of low demand during the week. Retirees and people with flexible schedules may think outside the box and camp during the weekdays.
Most campsites we go to already do that, and in addition, they have a 3-night minimum reservation for holiday weekends. Didn’t matter over the Fourth though, the campground was fully booked (about 100 sites) and we counted 23 that were empty. Worked out well for us because 3 of them were in a row next to us. We had a huge space all to ourselves!
Why not have a low percentage of non-reserve and the remainder reserve. That might be more affordable for both. Maybe the non-reserve can pay a little extra.
How about the no shows pay more for not showing up.
I have been a camper for 40 years. And I am guilty of this just as much as everyone of reserving a spot and leaving it empty. Empty at least until I am able to come up and occupy the site. I show up within 24 hours, which is what I think the law ought to be. Reserve the spot 24 hours ahead of time. But you better have a camper on the spot before that 24 hours expires or it can be re-rented.
Well… maybe they can’t double dip on campsites.. meaning if no refund is given because they canceled the day of or before then can they legally rent the same spot again?
At some of the camp grounds my husband and I go to, they will actually charge you a fee if you have a reservation booked and DON’T show up (so not only do you lose the fee for booking the site/nights at campsite bit then they also will charge you a $50 fee for being a “no show” if you do not cancel at least 12hrs prior to check in. To be honest, as much as I hate that policy, it does work and the camp is generally filled with people and you also can usually find last minute spots – best strategy that I have seen so far.
Reservation fee $10.00
campground fee $10.00
Cancellation fee $10.00
no show fee…$0.00 forfeit the $10.00 already paid, but cancel and get charged another $10.00
WHY Cancel
Campgrounds don’t get a fee if you cancel, just the first night because we hold it for 24 hrs.
I agree on the cancellation fee, don’t charge it and people may become more considerate and cancel.
If your system does not allow a refund within xx number of days, it should change to incentivize a refund of 50% given if your campsite is rebooked and utilized … That way people will cancel and hope for a partial refund and the campsite is available to others …
So I would suggest three things. 1. Reduce the time frame for booking sites to no more than 60 days out not 13 months like South Carolina State Parks have. 2. have a notification system to remind campers at 30 day with full refund, 15 day with 50% refund, 1 week no refund except for verified issue that happened days before arrival. 3. No show after 24 hours with notification system site is re-opened for anyone to book.
First come first serve, solves all the problems! Less work for all staff too.
It does not work for people driving a long .distance. You have to have a reservation for people who have to be assured of a site.
That would never work in out of the way parks , like Yosemite. You would have people fighting as they pushed to get in.
Reservations are simple, you can cancel on line as well. I just cancelled a reservation to Oregon, the push of one button.
Hotels allow a certain time to check in by. If the guest doesn’t call to notify that they are running late. Cancel the reservation. Seems logical to me.
The park could add to the camping web site a section where those who have reservations can post that they are not going to use the camp site. Others who want to use it can pay the refund. Cost is only for original fee so scalpers won’t be able to take advantage of other people. Just a thought
I agree with this solution. All involved would benefit.
Check in is a certain time if they are a no show within a certain time frame then the site should be available to other campers.
Why not have a 24 hour grace period to show up? If a space is reserved for the 24-28th and no one shows up for that space by the checkin time on the 25th, the space becomes available and the reserved sign is removed. It can then be used on a first come first served basis.
I was thinking the same thing! Unless reasonable contact with the desk has been made to verify a late check in, 24 hours and it’s up for grabs. No refunds. As a taxi/chauffer business owner, my policy is deposit required to book future dates/times with zero refund if canceled within 24 hrs of service time. My bank stands behind me since it’s posted prominently on each invoice sent.
That would be steeling from the person who booked the site. If you pay it’s yours doesn’t matter if you are their or not.
wrong…if this is how you behave in every day situations, wake up! you are not the only person on this world…very selfish attitude. By the way, stealing, not steeling
Not if the policy states if you are no show the site is up for graps 24 hrs later.
I have tried making reservations for a popular state park…they have 2 cc. When we arrived the park I would have preferred was 90% empty,it was fall the weather wasn’t bad. I tried asking the attendant what was going on…got a shrug
That is an illegal idea. Because you book a site you are renting it. It is not yours if you do not follow the renting policy.
YESSSSSSSSS!!!
I recently had some reservations through recreation.gov . My group had 3 campsites booked over 4 days…so 1 site for one night, then 2 nights at the second site, and 4th night at the third site. The sites were water access only, and the weather was not cooperating, so our options became either stay at site 1, or go home. We were unable to cancel our other 2 sites since we were inside the refund window…didn’t care much about the money…the website just didn’t have the option to cancel. We were luckily able to reserve the current site for the rest of our days out there.
In BC provincial parks if you don’t show up within 24 hours of your booking starting then the reservation is cancelled and the site is open for others to book.
Making a more generous refund policy based on giving credit to rebook later in the season might give campers more incentive to cancel rather than just keep their site to the last minute. For example, if you cancel in that 4-1 day window, maybe you get half refund in credit at the park. The online system should be able to manage that.
Confirmation email/call a certain amount of days out, if you don’t confirm you forfeit your spot with no refund plus a $50 no show fee. If you do confirm and still don’t show by a certain time, then you get the no show fee still.
so I would suggest first come first serve.then if people want that certain spot they will be there on a wed or Thursday. and you get 2 more days of revenue. work along time ago before internet
Offer credit rather than refunds once they’ve passed the 8 day refund limit.
I like this option. The park service would earn money on the float time and people would be more likely to cancel responsibly to earn their credit.
Stop with the reservation system. Some sites could be reserved no more than 24 hours in advance with at least 50% of sites avaliable on a first come first serve basis. Private campgrounds can figure out a reservation system!
Stop the reservation system. I don’t know when my vacation is in January. So When I do the sites are already reserved. People I know are trying to go to places you don’t pay. I haven’t camped since the system started.
People driving from log distances need a reservation, you can’t drive 700 miles and there are no sites. Reservations work if the no shows site is rented after a one day no call no show. The park gets double pay.
Have reservation holders put a large deposit down (say 4x the amount of the space rental). If they don’t show, they lose their deposit, if they do show, they get it back. Would also help funding/budget issues.
That’s not fair to family’s with limited income.
The limited income family should be responsible just like any others. If you’re not gonna be there, CANCEL. Simple as that.
Motivation to be considerate if you are unable to keep the reservation. The next post is crying discrimination about those who could not afford to do this…simple answer, if you can’t make the reservation , cancel and do not get charged the 4X deposit.
My suggestion to this huge problem is to give full refunds if the cancellation is done on line and someone else books the site or picks it on first come first serve basis (FCFS).
We need more FCFS sites too.
I think framing reservation cancellations as giving/gifting the opportunity to someone else could help remind people that if they can’t show, they are opening up the spot to others. Maybe there could be a way too that while normally refunds aren’t possible if cancelled last minute, if someone else books it after you cancel, you could get a refund (or partial refund) or have the option to donate your reservation to someone else.
I run a rental rv service where I deliver campers to different campgrounds in Maine the best campground for last minute campers was this place that didn’t take reservations you pulled in picked a site and you could stay up to 15 days on the same site it was close to the National park place was filled all the time lots of traveling campers they only took cash no credit cards I think most employees were work campers and me being a guy in all the campgrounds seeing all those great campsites empty I realize he had the best game in town
Camping was great back when most or all campgrounds were first come first serve. Since the reservations systems took over, it’s gone downhill. Who wants to plan 6 months out, or constantly monitor for cancelations. No thanks. I liked the spontaneous, unscheduled camping experience back before the internet ruined it all.
When the guests don’t show up on the start of their reserved time, the campground should contact the guest to find out if they still intend on using their reserved time. If they don’t respond , then they should forfeit the time so that the campground can offer the reserved spot for other potential campers. The sight should be offered at the price that the previous guest had to been reimbursed due to the forfeit. If the guest who forfeited the time spot, they automatically get the reimbursement at a reduced amount.
Sorry I don’t feel it should be up to the CC staff to chase folks down. If they are no call no show rent it to someone else after 24 hrs.A few yrs at a CC we heard people loudly bragging that they reserve up to 3 wks knowing they will only be using 1 wk. They want to pick & choose later.
Have also seen people posting that they reserve sites on each side because they don’t want people beside them!!!
ReserveCalifornia.com (Calif State Parks) has a clear policy about no shows. You get a grace period of 2 nites to not show up, then the campsite is supposed to become reservable. IT IS NEVER ENFORCED AND PRIME BEACH-SIDE SITES SIT EMPTY FOR A WEEK. The State can really enhance their revenue stream if they re-rented these available sites. Let’s reinforce the rules clearly stated in policy and not only enhance the State budget, but make campers happy who get the poor sites and watch the prime sites remain unused.
Or they should go back to first come first serve
The parks can start a “pot” system, which allows a person A to put their purchased spot “back to the pot”, opening it for sale again. If the site gets a new buyer B, the park refunds to A, otherwise no refunds. The spot belongs to A until a new buyer pays for it.
This is a great system. Kind of like subletting an apartment. Beneficial for all involved!
Don’t make it hard and complicate things.
All you have to do is cancel, then it will show up on reservations. In Yosemite the open for next month for reservations lasts 10 minutes and they are all booked up. People can check back to the reservation to see if any are canceled. Very easy all around. There are always people waiting at reservations for a cancel. But the park still has all the no show sites. 1 day grace and you lose your booked time, unless you call for a late arrival. No money back. Then the park gets double pay when it is booked again.
No, they should go back to first come, first serve and stop giving money to these websites, apps, and other online entities.
How sad that even getting out in nature nowadays requires hysterical online nonsense for months up to the trip. No more spontaneity. Everything has to be “scheduled”. Pretty sad. I won’t partake or enrich those who have taken over camping.
Establish refund systems that don’t penalize cancellations but, rather encourage sites opening up for others hoping to reserve. Or, perhaps charge an additional significant “no show fee” when reservations are made that campers get back after their stay, OR lose if they turn into no shows.
We have decades of National Forest camping experience, and the empty campsites is a real issue now. The major problem is caused by RV tour companies who reserve lots of sites as soon as they are available and prepare an itinerary for their customers, who often don’t show up. It is for-profit, and they should be prohibited from reservations because these parks are intended as a recreational benefit for the general public! Also, campground hosts have prevented us from using a vacant reserved site until it has been vacant for 2 nights! It should be available the first morning it is vacant, and not subject to the campground host.
Maybe offer a small nominal refund just for canceling. Like 5% or 10% something which would at least get them to go online and cancel so someone else can make a reservation.
Forest service campgrounds will re-rent any campsite the next day if they are a no show. I am a camp host in the real Northern California in Shasta Trinity National Forest, so you have to show up or lose it. See reservation.gov that is policy
If a person cancels the site after the refund date, it becomes open. IF that site is then able to be rented to another customer, Then the initial person could get a refund. So no refund unless someone else is able to use it . Pretty easy to program that in the software.
Love this idea!
This is how it is done with our Airbnbs – full refund if cancelled 30 days before and any rebooking credited to guest minus credit card fees. Works!
Campgrounds should go back to first come first serve and limited number of sites under reservations. That is how it was through the 2000s and it was great. Camping is supposed to be spontaneous, not planned out 6 months ahead.
That would be great for a bunch of students off for the summer with no/loose plans but when you work full time and have a family with kids you need to plan time off in advance. Additionally it is not feasible for my family and I to arrive on site after a potentially long drive and a ton of packing and prep, only to be told they are full.
When that happens you just go to the next place. That’s what we did when I was a kid. It worked fine, we always found somewhere to go and that way you get to check out different campgrounds. I think we are so set in our ways these days, we have to go to this campground because it is exactly the way we like it. Kids are resilient they don’t care where they are they just want to spend time with you things don’t need to be perfect! Just get in your camper and go and I bet you would enjoy it. Let go of the plan and wing it.
Our family (5 boys in a station wagon) rolled down the highway. No plan.
Some days we stopped at 4 and used the pool other days it was 8pm. No cells phones, pull up check.Mom also checked the room conditions. Some time 30 more miles down the road.We lived / had great times. Probably great lessons learned.
Camping stinks nowadays compared to back when most sites were first come first serve. As more people become frustrated with the reservations & lack of opportunities for spontaneous/unscheduled camping and cross country trips, the more people will abandon camping, like I have. I refuse to participate and enrich any industry that looks at customers as livestock and clearly only cares about making guaranteed money off the masses. How much $$ goes to reservation system? What a waste.
How sad that even getting out in nature nowadays requires hysterical online nonsense for months up to the trip. No more spontaneity. Everything has to be “scheduled”. Pretty sad. I won’t partake or enrich those who have taken over camping.
Our coach is always loaded and fueled
We throw some fresh food in the fridge, hook a trailer, check tires and roll in three hours.
Off we go and enjoy a great weekend of no plan!
Perhaps the easiest way to ease this is a policy that if you aren’t on that site you reserved by a certain time (possibly they could set an arrival time when you reserve it, that can be built into the software), and if they’re not there in that window of time that they set when reserving, someone else coming in for one night could set up for one night. It would also be great if when someone reserves but doesn’t show up it creates a demerit on their account. Three demerits on the reserving account for no show results in a one year suspension from being able to reserve a site. All of this would be software driven. Then those people who reserve at multiple parks wouldn’t be able to block sites.
There should be more first come first served sites
Create a confirmation agreement. Text message the camper to confirm or decline. State clearly no refunds and have courtesy toward campers who will show up (and also pay).,, “We appreciate your courtesy and your nonrefundable funds will maintain the park for your future enjoyment.”
This is an issue of basic consideration on the campers part, but also of an effective communication system on the part of the campgrounds. An automated text/email reminder requiring a response (Y/N) should begin 2 months out that Includes the cancellation/refund policy. Another sent at 2 weeks, 1 week, and finally 2 days before. Indicate that confirmation is needed to maintain the reservation in order to accommodate the campground’s waitlist. If no response is received after the 2 week outreach a phone call could be made. If at the 1 week point no confirmation has been made, cancel and refund 90% of the deposit.
My dentist does this to help them accommodate last minute dental emergencies
This works if you are at home & have service. Lots of places have no service, especially when traveling from place to place in MT.
When I have a reservation and am running late because of traffic or over optimism.
I have called and let them know it’s going to be 10 or whatever time.
They assign a site, left papers in a box at the office.
State park says ok, see you in the morning.
Also, it would be helpful for campers and campgrounds to Include a waitlist option on the booking site to get text/email notifications for cancellations for your desired dates and offer a selection of types of sites (ie certain length RV/trailer requirements, hookups or not, premium feature sites, etc) so that you receive notifications only for options you want/need. An option to stop notifications should also be included in case they’re no longer interested.
I like the idea of losing online reservation privileges for a year after no shows as well.
I really do think they have to go back to first come first get. We camp every year and try to get sites when reservations open and can’t get anything. So we come and sit at overflow all the time and see lots of empty sites. Very frustrating.
I agree we need to go back to first come first get.
I traveled in a car for years and booked hotels up the road based on when I felt like stopping.
Only reservation that I could be sure of was my final location and set time on site.
I do same thing in the coach. call around when an hour or so out.
I have been fortunate, always able to find a site.
Ppl actually don’t care if their site is sitting empty. They just want their $$ back if they can’t make it (bad weather forecast or unavoidable things like family emergencies, work related issues, etc).
I’d say make it easier to get a refund for a cancelled trip, so the campground can set it as a new site to be reserved (even if they lose money) or rented the next night. Even if that’s just a phone call to the actual campground to talk to a real person. Hire more staff to do so, if needed. BC, the government is making us pay a fee to camp at some places (Kananaskis), where is that $$ going?? It can’t all be going to new road signs (which weren’t necessary in the first place).
The reservation fee probably goes towards the costs of maintaining the reservation websites
What? The website shouldn’t cost much if anything at all…so no. Little kids make websites and games for FREE. The money should be going to the people running and working within the parks and camps.
Exactly. I’d like to know why I pay a fee to book my site on the computer! No one is helping me.
The Fee is going to the third party contractors who operate the site.
Call center or central booking
make them work for the fee that they demand
I wonder if the campground could offer a credit with short notice? That would allow others to access the sites.
I agree this would probably get people to cancel at least even if it was just 50% of a credit .
Can there be a “canceled/open site” option where you can open the site for someone else to book and if it can be booked then you are entitled to your full refund? Or like other said. First come first serve.
I like this option! I’m an RVer and trying to find a Provincial campsite in Ontario parks is CRAZY! Then when you get there 30% are empty yet the online reservation system says Full. Maybe if you don’t show by 6pm and don’t call for later check in (everyone has a cell) then it goes back up for use. Provincial parks here take 100% plus a reservation fee at reservation time so it’s not about $ people are just not showing up and those sites are empty.
How about charging a deposit when a site is being booked? A significant amount so that it is taken seriously. Say, $250.00 which is then reversed when the camper shows up/cancels the booking if the camper changes their mind. Kind of like hotels who hold a deposit until you check out ( this is about damages not cancellations but has the same effect).
Not everyone can afford a big deposit. Just like not everyone can afford a big fancy RV. A reasonable deposit that goes towards the reservation when you show up or you forfeit the deposit and they re rent space by 9pm unless you call to make arrangements for being late to check in.
I think that you should have to provide a valid drivers license number as well as $150 deposit, which is “fully refundable” when you show up to your reserved site. Need to start holding people accountable, or nothing will change.
Maybe offer a refund for the remaining time if they agree to let others rent the space instead so like if you see a good empty spot the park could contact the person who reserved it and offer a partial refund if they agree to cancel and alow others to use the space instead
Pay in full 48 hrs before or no site…if u not checked in weekdays ,before 7pm..site is gone..no refund..unless prior arrangement made….
If u don’t show Friday and u rent weekend site..cash and site gone at midnight Friday.. show up or ship off
I’m not sure which provence this article is referring to. Here in Alberta, you can not reserve a site without paying in full plus a reservation fee. The result is the same. You show up in a fully booked campground, getting the last site available, only to find the place 50% empty.
Yes!
A friend and I were joking about the favourite word used by settlers when they came to Canada. “Reservation” became their favourite word really fast and I think that was one major mistake from our fore fathers. From native lands to booking a date night at a restaurant, the magic word “reserve,” or the phrase “I want to reserve…” became a comfort, and being too comfortable as well all know isn’t great for personal growth or the community as a whole, of course it’s becoming evident that some believe that there should be slaves doing their work for them still, so perhaps the issue is a generational stubbornness in older folks and entitlement from most in this society. First come, first serve.
As cg hosts we see this all the time. Primo sites with full hookups sit empty while those who show up and complain those sites are not being used and they are left with a less desirable site (electric only or no hookups). My suggestion to them is to plan way ahead and don’t wait and make reservations at the last minute (eg a couple of months out or less). The early bird catches the worm!
Some of us don’t know that far ahead. I think booking so far ahead is the reason for aĺl the empty sites! They need to have FCFS sites in each provincial park so everyone can camp.
I tried booking sites 6 MO in advance for several campgrounds and was stonewalled EVERYTIME.
Live feed cameras, I go online see empty spots, I’m reserving. If u don’t show up, charge them penalty fee.
Attach a posting section to campground site where people can offer others their wk so no one loses money, sites could get filled with less angry campers. Many methods of online pymts available for ease and security of all parties if they would like to participate.
Thoughts
1.Can only reserve TYPE of site (tent, hookups, etc). FCFS for specific site. Best sites not left empty
2.Full pmt when reserving (serious vs a thought)
3.Send auto text/email monthly, weekly, couple days prior to reservation with cancel option (make it easy).
4.”Full” refunds less DAILY restocking fee ONLY when same type of site is reserved again (even if campground is not full). First person who cancels that type of site for that day will get refund for new reservation. The refund is by day (not block)
5.Create notification “wait” list for each type of site. Entire list gets notified of cancellation at same time by email/text. Timely looker not on list can also reserve.
Keep policies as they are, but add “if you cancel anytime, and we can rebook your location you will be refunded 100%”.
Make it more profitable for campgrounds and don’t refund if less than one week until reservation then campground makes double money and I have a place to park and irresponsible people are penalized.
Maybe try a time frame if they book Friday through Sunday and don’t contact campground before say 6 pm you lose the site. If they here from you that you will be late check in then the campground knows that.
Simple answer but might be hard to implement.
Continue with current cancellation policy but add a tracker that gives additional refund if someone else books the site.
If you don’t show or cancel the park cancels you and makes the spot available
Offer a way that campers could post if they needed to cancel and give others the option to take their place when checking in. Most campsites allow people to call and say someone else will be checking into their site. The cameras could either pay each other directly if that was easier than the campgrounds figuring out a way to process these things. I know I’ve done this in the past with friends and family myself. If I couldn’t make it or one of them couldn’t make it we reached out to people we knew and found someone to take the site. I simply called the campground and told them who would be checking in and staying at the campsite and my friend paid me directly and everyone was happy.
Make campsites “first come first serve” no reserves. Lot of people show up with no where to camp. When there are empty sites. I was a host. For COE. You a no show. I will call to make sure you will use the days . If not I will cancel your reservation at your expense and rent the site to another camper. Ps the call is recorded. CyA.!
How about an option online where waiting list can be joined and a reservation that’s not going to be used could be sold (kind of like subletting your campsite)? Then the no show gets a better refund % and the park still gets paid and the camp site doesn’t go to waste.
There is a site on Facebook, unfortunately the people who are reselling usually don’t list the size of the site or site number making it difficult for us in larger units.
Make those who do not cancel and do not show up ineligible for future reservations. Simple solution.
If you no show your reserved campsite that has a check in time of 5pm without having arrangements to show later, you forfeit the fees and the campsite is opened up to first come,first serve.
Perfect solution!!
Except for the poor camp owner who has to deal with an irate customer who showed up late but couldn’t call because they had no cell service en route.
It is not safe to anger someone on either side of the desk.
Darla, aren’t you the same one that said you won’t reserve or CANCEL if you have to call? Regarding the poor camp owner and irate customer? That’s when the camp owner calls the police when the irates won’t leave as asked.
In addition, if you no show a reservation without canceling, you should not be allowed to make a reservation for up to 1 year.
If a reserved campground is a no show, after the first night the camp host goes online and cancels the reservation making the site available for others to reserve. First come first serve can take it as well.
Could they ask for a deposit that is refunded at the end of the reservation if they showed up/used the site?
Allow waiting list for camp sites and if a cancelation is done and someone from a wait list takes the reservation over allow a full refund. If the waitlist only covers a part of the canceled reservation only refund the portion that was covered.
I believe that there should be a time limit for showing up. Say, if you haven’t arrived by 7 pm, your campsite becomes open again and then first come, first served.
Concerning our Canadian Provincial Parks (and perhaps US State Parks) – if a campsite is not occupied by a set time (ie: 8 pm, 9 pm or ?pm), it should be available on a ‘1st come, 1st served’ basis. For those who will arrive past the predetermined, preset, communicated time, a phone call to a central phone number/operator can be made to hold the site. That information can then be texted/called to the site host/operators. Because, we know that almost everyone has a cell phone (and most reservations ARE made online.) If the camper will arrive for the remaining reservation time, then it is made clear that the fill-in camper can only be in that site for a single night.
If the solution were simple it would have already been found and implemented. I doubt I’m representative of most campers. But here’s my info. I don’t care if I get a refund or not if I cancel. But I won’t reserve or cancel if I have to call someone. I prefer first come first served places because I hate to be tied down to a planned stop. I also want a spot that has a lot of space. Sight unseen, I can’t be sure of my satisfaction. And I’d pay a large premium for a spacious, level site with a combo of sun and shade. I don’t care about “resort” amenities or even hookups. I want self-check in. No people involved. Perhaps I just need to buy land in strategic locations. 🙂
Re: empty but reserved
My guess is some people have enough money that getting a refund is not important. So, why not make the reservation, just in case you go. If something comes up, so what it’s only a few dollars. Probably not even a thought about keeping someone else from that site.
My solution, if you don’t cancel within a reasonable time, a fine is charged to your credit card. There should be an appeal process if you can prove an emergency. If you “no show” multiple times the fine could increase or your ability to make a reservation suspended for a time.
Should be obvious I’m tired of inconsiderate people also.
My thoughts after reading many of these comments is this is caused by a lack of respect, integrity and human decency. Something that seems not to be taught these days. This is pure selfishness and self-centeredness.
The campground should not have to take a loss to pacify inconsiderate people. Maybe if there were a combination of penalties for no cancel/ no shows then people would stop. Require a deposit and full payment up front. And then if they don’t show up slap a hefty fine on top of that. Some said it’s not about the money to them, but if the total cost is large enough, they may think twice.
Everyone should be held accountable!
I feel as though there should be a check in time frame similar to hotels. If you do not check in for your reservation by 8 pm. Your reservation spot becomes available.
Let’s say you are going to be late by a day for a 3-4 day booking. If you call ahead and let them know, your booking will be held until the next day and same rules apply.
Perhaps a system where people who can’t use their site for what ever reason, rather than writing off the cost, could post their reservation and get money back from someone wanting the site. Ticket hub kind of option. OR the campground refunds 90% if they rent it out again.
I could see this turning into a “broker” or “Scalper” situation… sad to say.
A lot of good suggestions! Sarah hit the nail on the head. Set a timeframe. No contact by camper, no show by a certain time, no refund. Open the site. Fines and banishments could be hard to manage. A refund based on a sliding scale based on how quickly the site is taken, and what revenue loss there might be to the host, seems more than fair. If the uncanceled site if filled for the entire remaining time of the canceled reservation, a refund, minus a service fee might work. If must be disclosed that all penalties be in writing to counter any, “I didn’t know,” excuses.
If they had to cancel directly with the campground, maybe with an incentive, then they would know their inventory, and could update it online, and they could double their money by reselling the site
Why give a refund for a no show? If a person reserved fri- sun, n didn’t show up or call by mn fri, they just lost the rest of their weekend reservation, with no refund. I’m assuming/hoping the bill was paid at reservation time.) At 1201, the site is available for anyone else. If course, it would have to be in writing n agreed to before signing n paying. Yes, it sounds like the same site was paid for twice, which it was, but better than being left open when there are folks waiting to get in. Maybe next time they’ll think twice about not showing up.
If for example, you reserve a site and then at the last minute you need to cancel. It would be nice if you could call the host to inform them you need to cancel. The host could then allow the site to be open for another camper to rent and if the hosts are able to rent the site to another camper, the original renter would receive a 50% refund. Win win. A lot of campers show up without a reservation hoping to get a walk-in site.
These are some good suggestions BUT think of the extra work for a camp host to be available for phone calls and make changes and refunds. They have a campground to maintain, not sit behind a computer in an office. Use it or lose it after a check-in time or make all FCFS
In the end campgrounds are a business. To reduce speculators or “just in case” camping reservations make them follow a if you reserve it you pay for it all upfront with no refunds policy. Yes I’m sure there could be some extenuating circumstances that could be worked out with direct communication to the CG (i.e death in the family, illness etc) but if you reserved the site, regardless of when you show up, the site is still yours within its reservation window.
Establish a policy that requires you to show up by 10:00 am the day after your reservation starts and if you’re a no show you forfeit your spot.
Some campgrounds will send a reminder email or text. If you need to cancel you should let them know. Agree if not there by 10am on following day forfeit site..
Maybe if campgrounds charge full price for no shows/no cancelation people would be motivated to properly cancel their reservations.
My feelings are, that it should be like a hotel. You pay for it all upfront and if you cancel one week prior to the reservations, you get a full refund but anything after that is prorated. No-shows get charged full price. If you have the decency to call and say you’re not coming, the closer to the reservation date the less you will get in the form of a refund.
I actually had to leave my spot for sitting up popup and it broke. I couldn’t set it up. I had to leave the park. we stop at office. they refuse us all the refund 3 days. another time my camper van brakes went out in the park. I had to get towed out and they refuse to refund space for that too. this was at different campground. I was paid up several days. if you set time and you get lost. you lose your site.
Plead with people, for the sake of their fellow campers, to cancel their reservation (even if they get no refund).
Perhaps offering a full refund IF the site is rebooked?? Then folks might feel more inclined to cancel in hopes of getting more back
I don’t agree people are just not showing up. I fully believe the reservation system has fake bookings so to limit the number of people in a campground. Crowd control? Not enough staff to handle a full park? I just don’t agree that people can just waste that much money.
Sounds like a conspiracy theory to me. Perhaps park personnel are too busy trying to convince everyone the world is flat or the moon landing was faked!
Sounds like another conspiracy theory. Perhaps park personnel are just too busy trying to prove the moon landing was faked.
Maybe we should stop the double booking at the beginning. Reservation systems could stop the double booking at State and National Parks by the system searching by name and credit card last four the same weekend, prompting a question to the booker as if you book a second campground for the same weekend then the system will cancel the first one. Do you want to continue? Prepayment should be required with a partial refund system based on how far out you booked and when you canceled.
That’s a good suggestion. However, I have read about people who make double bookings in other family member names (even pets!), and they could use a different credit card, thereby skirting this method. It’s sad the lengths to which people will go in order to skirt rules and regs intended for the common good.
Releasing sites when people don’t arrive by a certain time if they don’t call ahead would help.
Park should have a no show no call fee like $20. a day.
With regard to no show campers. Do what doctors office does. They text me daily starting 3 days before my appointment to confirm I’m coming. If no response they cx my appointment. If you show anyway you’re told to reschedule. Severe but works.
I like it!
A couple of other solutions for no-shows:
1) Charge them double or triple for their next reservation;
2) Disqualify their reservation privileges for 6 months. Perhaps they will show up hoping to get a site and find that they cannot because some other no-shows booked all the open sites.
Regarding empty campgrounds that won’t refund $ once deadlines have passed. They could issue CREDIT for a future stay. That way they keep the $$ and odds are 50/50 that folks will actually use it. But I would definitely cancel if I knew that I could use credit to stay there another time especially if I lived relatively close of if it was part of my yearly route south.
In my experience, changing a reservation can be difficult. If my arrival will be delayed by a day or two (weather. breakdown, illness) I am often ahead to just let the site sit empty. What if I the park could rent those nights on a day by day basis? Would they do a prorated refund for the days I couldn’t be there?
If not too much trouble the park can create a last-minute call list, so if someone cancels they can go to the call list a see if the next persons on the list are still interested in a reservation. there should still be a penalty for late cancellations.
Because this is such a big problem, an additional requirement of being on site and checking into your campsite at 5pm should be required to hold your campsite. If everyone knew that rule we’d be there by then or understand why our campsite was given away. Empty campsites, when I have no where else to go, make me extremely angry. Plus, the campgrounds would make double money.
There should be wiggle room. Like if you call them by 5 (and someone actually picks up) and tell them you are still coming, it’s just taking a little longer, and give them a rough estimate of when you’ll get there. Then they should not cancel your site. Maybe if you never get there by the next morning when the office opens, and don’t call again explaining (like maybe you had a breakdown), then they would cancel the whole reservation and make the site available.
Make a blacklist of no-show-didn’t-cancel campers where all their data is cross-referenced, so that their license plate or phone number or address will be flagged as ‘can not reserve for 5 years, eligible for walk-up’. Campgrounds are so hell-bent on gathering and storing all this data on us, for heaven’s sake use it!
This might tie in nicely with using AI as mentioned above…ReserveAmerica extracts a fee to be part of the reservation system, make them work for it. AI might make a difference here and I am not a fan of the ever increased use of AI in our lives whether we want it or not. The tracking system would be a good use of this technology and could cross platforms from state/ national parks and the private campgrounds/ rv parks.
I think that if someone makes a reservation, and doesn’t show, they lose all their money. If they cancel less than 7 days out (unless it’s a legitimate emergency situation. Then of course there are those that would take advantage of that too), they lose all their money. Make it hurt. It’s the only thing people seem to understand anymore. Seems that more and more people are living up to their highest levels of self-importance and simply don’t care about anyone else.
campgrounds should be run like many concert venues. If you want a ticket, or in this instance a reservation, and there are none available, you put your name into a queue. Then if someone wants to cancel their reservation, they mark it as available and the first person on the queue gets a chance to purchase those reservations. Once someone buys the reservation, at no markup, regular price, then the initial person gets their money back and campers get their reservation that wouldn’t have been available otherwise. Simple easy it’s already been done.
You can’t make it too complicated, too operationally difficult to implement. (1) do a “tent check” first thing in the morning. Campers who have not arrived for a reservation starting the day before, have their reservation canceled with no refund. No excuses, no exceptions. (If your motorhome breaks down just on your way to the campground, you have a lot more expensive problems than a canceled reservation. Life happens, and sometimes you just take a hit.) (2) Have a generous cancellation policy, to encourage good behavior. Together these two things encourage good behavior, discourage bad behavior, and minimize reserved but empty campsites.
Ha! 700 ideas as to how a reservation system should work. Let’s put them all into AI and see what that check-in list would look like.
In 17 years of camping, especially the last four or more years in retirement, I can honestly say that I recall only one time when I was P.O.’d about empty campsites. We were at a NYS park. It had rained a lot leading up to our visit. Our site was a swamp, and we were told there were no other available sites. Two days in our stay we noticed a dry large site unoccupied. We stopped at the office to check into this. We were told the site was “reserved for walk-in campers” I was furious. We reserve months in advance, get stuck in a muddy wet site, while the empty dry site sits unused waiting for someone from another state or Canada to drive an be afforded a great site. Otherwise, we don’t look.
I understand not being able to refund with short notice, especially since I know some people book multiple sites/locations while they still work out the details of their trips (sadly, I actually know some of these selfish sorts). One idea, if people at least cancel and no refund, a discount on a future stay?
Or…credit towards future reservation.
Thank you, Nanci and happy new year!
I think that refund policies and “no show” policies are WAY too liberal…if you no show. The rest of your reservation is forfeit…and unless you cancel at least two weeks in advance, no refund. That way the people who make reservations at several places and play “pick and choose” will at least pay for their greediness!