We received this letter in our inbox from reader Karen M. Please read it through and then leave your thoughts in the comment section below. Thank you!
“Hello! I love the newsletter and found it several years ago while we were full-timing. I read it still even though I only take shorter trips now. However, I find myself on the cranky side when I read some of your articles. Of course, I am tired of the crowds, expanding costs and questionable manners of my RV neighbors, but when I really think about why I am not taking my motorhome out and why I get upset during discussions in your newsletter, it comes down to ethics. Mainly the idea that if you RV you can get everything
for free. Yet these people are still taking advantage of the roads, public services, and benefits that the rest of the world is paying for.
I heard a lot of talk from people boondocking about how they can get away for almost free. Then in the morning after they drive the ‘big’ RV away there is a pile of garbage and a disturbed natural site.
They complain because a park charges more for out-of-state campers. They say locals should be grateful because they are there buying gas and groceries, at the same time bragging about how much they can get for free.
State residents not only pay local taxes to maintain services but they also pay state taxes to cover the major cost of our recreation sites and campgrounds.
Maybe I am the only senior, no I am sure there are many many others, that believe we still need to contribute to society for the good of those who follow. But it seems some RVers have the attitude to take all they can and contribute as little as possible.
Does this ethic bother others, am I just too high and mighty? It certainly did color my impression of the people living full-time during my 16 months of RVing.
Respectfully, Karen M.”
Karen M. made some good points about RV folks but is off track on some. I concur, trash left behind is inexcusable any place and any time. RVers purchase fuel, groceries, supplies in local communities which supports businesses and pays sales taxes to support local infrastructure. All states have taxes on fuel which go toward road repairs. It is up to local leaders to prioritize the roads that are repaired. We love traveling in our RV and pay our fair share. Leave only footprints, take only memories. Dana F.
Exactly.
I wish fuel taxes went to repair roads. Most of the time it is used to supplement mass transit so the users donāt have fare increases, after all, if youāre the mayor of a big city you donāt want to raise fares of the constituency that keeps you in office.
It isn’t just RV’ers. It’s ANYONE who thinks that they are more entitled and don’t care about the environment they’re leaving for future usage. There are more non-RVers than RVers, yet I see trash everywhere in every city. Sometimes it’s something blown by mistake out of the back of a pickup truck, sometimes it’s someone throwing a McDonald’s cup or beer bottle out the window.
Itās the way theyāre raised, if their parents did it theyāll do it. I lived in AL 28 years, many times during breaks or lunch periods the subject of roadside trash would come up in discussions. Someone would invariably make the statement āif I didnāt throw trash out the window the prisoners wouldnāt have anything to doā. Thatās the way their daddy thought and now thatās the way they think. Until parents change the way they think their children will grow up thinking the same way. Itās a vicious cycle, I donāt have the answer, and I donāt think anyone else does.
Karen M is speaking in generalities and the 2 different points she makes are being conflated. #1. More than just RVers litter and are bad stewards of our communities, wilderness and wetlands. IMO RVers are more likely to respect the environment and our communities. #2. “FAIR SHARE”, A person’s fair share can only be calculated by that person. I know it’s popular to trash others in our current environment for “not paying their fair share” but at the end of the day, no one knows another’s choices in private. A billionaire may give a donation of $10 million to a cause or 2 anonymously, environmental or otherwise. Unless a specific law has been broken to avoid taxes, **** up Karen M. Stop being a Karen. Tax avoidance by a full timer is not a crime. It is a choice and quite often is part of a well thought out strategy to enjoy life more fully, possibly after a lifetime of paying more than one’s fair share. Karen is free to send more $ in taxes anytime!
Very well stated guess it was just a personal opinion of this person.
Agreed.
Hear hear!
I’ve seen Walmart parking lots where people have stayed overnight and left a big pile of garbage when the store probably had a dumpster. I especially hate seeing trash in the woods. When there are big piles, it is usually from a camper who stayed a while. Also, it seems rather odd, when people purchase a $200,000 rig and want a free place to park it.
Karen M. I have been RVing since the 1970’s. In all of my years doing so, I have never encountered the things you list in your tirade. We do not frequent Government Lands and we do not boondock. But I can tell you all the things we do: We pay for our sites. We always leave our site Clean and the way we found it. While in other States, we purchase Gas, Food and whatever other supplies we may need. Believe it, or not, we pay State and Local sales Tax on those purchases. So, in essence, we are contributing to the Highways we drive our Rig on. So for you to make it like we are some kind of greedy group of people, is totally preposterous and not very truthful. Are there some ignorant, inconsiderate, people who RV? Of course there is but they are the “exception, not the rule! For our experiences, we have met many people and made many friends in our RV journey. You should have done the same. It would be a much more rewarding experience for you!
Agree 100%. We are Canadians spending five months every winter somewhere in the Southern USA. We are good stewards of your amazing country when we are here and five months of spending hard earned dollars in various states is our way of giving back. Good people are everywhere if you look at the glass as half full, not always half empty.
Leonard, Thanks for the response. We live in the Daytona Beach area of Florida. If you are ever in our area, send me a message and we would be happy to meet you folks. Maybe go out to dinner. We have great seafood Restaurants near us.
HAPPY EASTER!
Historically (in my short 54 year history), I believe that RVers/campers were, for the most part, very good stewards of the environment. But I see that fact changing a little bit. Now, in my time as a workkamper, I get to witness RVers/campers who are entitled. They (not all of them) have no respect for the property, their neighbors, or park/campground rules. It’s all about them. I don’t like the trend but it’s not just happening in the RV world. It’s happening everywhere. What to do? I will continue to do my part to be a good steward, a good neighbor, and a good guest. At the end of the day I’m the only person I can control.
We mostly camp in privately owned RV parks these days since itās difficult to get reservations in the state parks anymore. Actually, weāve found RVers to be the exception. People in general seem to care less and take no responsibility for their behavior. Thatās the current culture, sadly. But I havenāt seen abuse from RVers, at least not in my camping experience.
Sadly Karen, you are spot on! It is all about me and to hell with you! Period. People must believe that the trash they leave behind, just cleans itself up or disappears! Who knows what goes through those devious minds! When we worked in Yellowstone, we saw people just throw paper from ice cream, cigarette butts, wrappers, etc. without a single thought of what they are doing to this beautiful park. Sad indeed and yes, it is hurting all of us. They are now going to restrict entries into National parks, State parks, etc. The crowds are overwhelming and not slowing down. Please save us from ourselves!
Talk about freeloaders, I have seen many Welfare ****** and many others who when offered Welfare don’t want to be associated with it. When we first started out, I was in the Navy and had a son. We got out and settled into our home town and could not afford to continue living there. We wound up on Food Stamps and it was not acceptable to me. I went back into the Navy and suffered with the many moves and my wife spent many nights glued to the national news to see if I was in an area that was hot. My son suffered with new schools, three in just the fifth grade. I did this so we could afford to live back in our home town. After 26 years, we could. I enjoy the RV travel and don’t think we are contributing to your perception of being a free loader. I do find it distasteful when I as an out of stater are charged more for a campsite when your state tourist bureau is advertising for us to visit your state. I realize my home state is doing the same thing and I don’t agree with it.
Yes, some RVer’s do have an entitled attitude. I have found a majority do not. As always, it is the bad that are making the strongest impression on everyone. We dont hear about the good (in anything) often enough. Even though I don’t enjoy it, I will pick up after other campers, walkers, hikers, whatever. Not because I enjoy it, but because I enjoy the after effects. Some people are just jerks, but I choose not to be one.
Karen M has some good points but as others have stated don’t judge the many by the few.
This is becoming a me me world. But as for paying our fair share, when those big rigs travel your toll roads, they are paying a lot more than your average day to day traveler on that same toll road because of the supposed impact to the road. WE can also counter your statement by asking why if we are just passing through should we pay taxes for your leaders to mis-manage by not using those funds to fix those horrible roads that we travel on. Should your city or state pay for the repairs to my rig caused by those improperly maintained roads. Just another perspective.
Pa will not pay for damage to your vehicle done by their roads. Thats why they donāt rush to fix them. I had over $1,200. damage to two cars tires and a aluminum wheel. Sometimes it seems like they let the roads get worst when their pushing to raise the gas tax. Plus they are using gas tax money to pay the state police, which they’re not supposed to.
PA turnpikes are the WORST!
https://www.rvtravel.com/long-long-rv-trip-week-15-avoid-pennsylvania-turnpike-back-chicago-1070/
I had alot to say, but TOM H, summed it up pretty good. I can only control my actions and thoughts. At 57 I realize time is the most valuable commodity I have. I try to choose wisely how I spend it. I am human, fallible indeed. Some days when I see the trash thrown down and left. I stop and clean it up, somedays I am just too filled with disgust to stop and deal with. I smile and say hey to people, you never know what someone is going through. Bottom line, I love the ocean, the desert, the mountains all combined with my camper trailer. I am loving life and won’t give it up because of some persons, groups or generations actions or thoughts…
For all those high and mighty people who have talked about how they don’t leave a messy campsite, how many of you have walked around with a plastic garbage bag and picked up other people’s garbage to properly dispose of? I do this on a regular basis I don’t want any back slaps or applauds for it I just do it because it should be done I wish more people would do it. The one I saw that really bothered me was people who had a composting toilet dumped the stuff in their site.
I do the same especially while kayaking so let me say thanks. Occasionally someone will notice and say thanks and I have a few replies: “Don’t thank me, I am doing this because it bothers ME” or “Well if everyone picked up just one piece of trash I’d have nothing to do. But don’t let that stop you.” or “It’s easy, anyone can do it”. But its especially rewarding when kids notice and ask their parents what that guy is doing. The responses are priceless but the example is worth a million bucks. Thanks again.
Hi hi. Yup . Karen, Karen karen. Stop and smell the camp coffee.Todays world is a lot different than when I was born, in 1944. I grew up at a time when almost all the good fun was free. It was time we made for ourselves. If you can’t live with what the world has become, I suggest you sell the RV, take a long cruise and enjoy history, food and evenings leaning on the rail watching the moon make lovers get closer.
For sure camping is a bore to many, while others crave the life. I thought I would like the life but soon got out of the rut of packing sweating whether I hooked up the fifth wheel proper. So I bought a piece of America, 1.48 acres of it on the Penobscot River here in Maine, only 1 1/4 hours drive from my house. Peaceful, great fishing, no bothersome neighbors, great sunrises, and sunsets. It is the Life of Riley. If I had Grandkids this is where I would take them. To head out on the road is okay. It is not for everyone. Enjoy what you have.
Always Remember:
It’s All About ME!
When I was a kid (Iām almost 70 now) and would voice my shock at learning about a crooked policeman, an abusive priest, or a power-inflated teacher, my dad would say that those professions were just a microcosm of the world; heād ask why Iād think they there wouldnāt be such examples? Same thing today. Since then, the world has changed in so many profound ways, a few for the better, and so many for the worse: self-reliance took a nose-dive, entitlement took a flying leap, government expansion into everyday life has been growing by leaps and bounds, instant gratification became commonplace with everything from the ability to buy everything on credit or to watch any movie thatās ever been made with the touch of a few buttons,. RVers are a microcosm of the larger population. Yeah, there probably are more inconsiderate RVers. There are more inconsiderate people in general. The best we can do is not join their ranks.
Thank you for that piece of clarity.
I think Karen makes some.good points. The overall quality of people and their behaviors has gone down. This is in every way of life.
I have found in 54 years of life that worrying about or complaining about what other people do is purely a waste of MY (maybe not YOUR) time.
Since I can’t control them, only myself, and I only have 86,400 seconds a day..that I can never get back…I concern myself on what I do. If I see a can on the ground, I grab it and throw it in the trash. I full time, and keep my site neat and orderly, in and out. Some of my colleagues do not. I can’t worry or correct them. If it gets too frustrating or angering, I just turn the key and go.
My life is shorter now due to a health scare, so my attitude is to breathe deeply,.do the right thing in the moment I am in, and concern myself less on what THEY do, but what I do.
However, Karen, your mileage may vary, please consult your owners manual for further information.
Best to you and yours!!
Good answer, Carl! Thank you!
The writer is “spot on”. However, the attitude of “freebees” or “entitlements” describes not only RVers but society in general. Too many people expect others to do it for them and take care of them whether it is cleaning up trash or providing the necessities of life. I often wonder how some folks would react to living during WWII with the rationing of food, gasoline and other necessities.
I grew up in those years and I appreciate and take care of what I have now.
100%. Time for people to think about paying back their nation and neighbors vs. just taking. Great freedoms come with greater responsibility. Please teach to your kids…I think that is the start of the problem.
In this world there are givers and there are takers. You just described the takers. They call themselves ‘frugal’ but a frugal person works to spend their money carefully, a taker just takes everything they can get and is not the least bit concerned about who has to pay for it as long as it is not themselves.
I reread Karen’s post because of some of the strong negative reaction. I find the headline slightly misleading and maybe better titled “Freeloading RVers etc.” I did not hear her pointing the finger to “all” RVers just “some” who approach it with extreme bad behavior and attitudes. I recently attended a seminar on boondocking and it was pointed out that many areas have been closed due to such behavior. This should be a concern for all of us because any reduction in spots causes all of us greater competition and cost.
I often choose to stay in state parks over commercial campgrounds. While we may pay some taxes, in some states, residents pay income tax that helps pay for infrastructure like state parks etc. Not that we aren’t or shouldn’t be paying our fair share but rather that we should be grateful for our lifestyle and do what we can to contribute to being able to continue to enjoy it. Her name may be Karen but voicing her opinion does not make her a “Karen”. That’s just uncivil.
While she may have had some valid points, she was unnecessarily ācrankyā in expressing her āimpression of people living full timeā. When you use too broad of a brushā¦.
A bit off-topic, but this made me chuckle, thinking about a little mom and pop campground we stayed at years ago. The folks had gone to the expense of installing power meters at each site. When they mentioned it was an add-on charge for electricity according to actual usage, I said okay, no problem, though it occurred to me that I had never been charged for power before. As I sat around the campfire, I looked down the way and saw a good-sized motorhome with two a-c units on the top and decided that the meters were probably the fairest approach to the issue. Two days later, as I checked-out, I asked what I owed him and he laughed as he said āThatāll be 23 cents.ā
Our little popup truck camper didnāt consume much. I handed him a buck and told him to keep the change.
Re: the aptly named ‘Karen’ M. who had a list of complaints about other RVers. I strongly suspect she finds what she has been looking for, namely the worst in others. Sad. If she looks for the generosity in others she may find that as well.
Well put!!! Cheers.
Agree with both Paul and Cancel !
You don’t have to look for a big pile of trash that someone left behind. It’s almost impossible to ignore…
The larger issue is the carbon footprint left by huge consumers of limited resources. No one seems to be aware of the fact that this lifestyle choice is rapidly becoming obsolete. In ten years all of us will be forced to acknowledge that individuals ( myself included) ignoring climate change in their big rigs have destroyed what they cherish.
So 10 more years of enjoyment people. That’s it folks, we have 10 more years. Fire up those engines and go see the country now. I was still working off AL Gore’s 2012 end of days prophecy. Then I turned to AOC’s 2024 prophecy and was counting down the days because it is 2023, but thank goodness for this post, I can now switch to the 2033 version and celebrate another decade of eating steaks, fast cars and air conditioning.
The climate change deniers, like yourself, are quickly becoming the laughing stock. Unfortunately your kind are in positions to slowdown solutions to the problem for whatever your selfish reasons may be. If we had listened to the climate scientists back in the 70’s our childrens future would look much brighter than it does today. Your selfish sarcasm is not only boring but it’s obviously harmful to the planet. The science proves it. Try educating yourself.
I donāt deny climate change is occurring. I dispute that mankind’s contributions to climate change are significant. I follow real science not speculation. I think the burning ball of gas in the sky may have more to do with climate change than cow farts. I believe our efforts as mankind should be about adapting to the changing planet, rather than a futile effort to change our planet’s natural evolution as a more practical approach. My science is based in science not speculation. My sample size is 80,000,000 years, not 150. I have no insult to offer you tho. If the science is settled then tell me, what percentage of climate change is man-caused and what percentage is natural? If it’s truly settled science then it’s an easy question to answer.
Well said. Our planet is constantly changing and thereās limited ways mankind can alter those changes. Only the Creator can control this worldās future.
Maybe that was a tough question after all Dennis. If you come up with the answer, this week, next week, next year, just throw it out here. I’ll watch for it.
To better understand the more pragmatic approach to climate change that myself and many others believe, based on science, and millions of years, rather than blindly following the popular narrative of the day, I recommend the following reading by Dr. Bjorn Lomborg, PhD. “Global Crisis, Global Solutions” and “Cool It”. Both are very good reads. I do not agree with him 100% either but I guess thats how science works.
Dr. Lomborg is a visiting fellow at Stanford’s Hoover Institute and his think tank NGO, Copenhagen Consensus Center has been named in the top 20 of 7,000 submitted internationally.
Seems getting educated is important for you to recommend for me. Now you try it. Read a book that challenges your beliefs instead of confirm your existing belief. In science we call that, “Confirmation Bias”.
Happy Easter.
I know many people that deny the science of climate change and most would never pick up a book let alone read it. Their science comes from the blowhards on Fox and others like it. Check out the documentaries about methane eruptions in Siberia, Alaska and Canada due to permafrost thawing. There are many ways to educate yourself besides the technical jargon you’re talking about. Saving a livable Earth for future generations probably won’t happen because those who don’t want to be inconvenienced are the anchor dragging down those who are trying to save it. Many are good people but they will do nothing and that will be enough to make future earth a tough place to survive. Happy Easter
Sorry Dennis, I did not realize that FOX had a scientific arm studying anything scientific let alone an entire department studying climate change. I have always thought scientists did science for peer review and publication. Thank heaven I have not turned too FOX for my source of scientific data.
I have never personally met anyone ever that did not think the climate is changing. I think we likely have 99.5% concensus that the climate is changing, and changes, going back millions of years. It changes on every planet. The contention is why? Man-caused or natural or both and if both, how much of each as a percentage. If man is only causing 5%, then wrecking the world to fix the world is a strange strategy.
Thanks for the pleasant discourse, mutually.
Do you have a degree in a hard science backed up with decades of work experience? You ask a question that has been answered tens of thousands of times. According to Bing AI, out of 88,125 peer reviewed papers, 99.9 percent agree that warming is mostly man made. So, at least >50% is caused by us. I have not read even 10 papers .. but as an expert in my own field I will accept the expert opinion of climate scientists. Unless for example I devote the next 10 years to intense and directed study on this subject.
Hmm, nice little graph of sun energy in Watts/M^2 vs warming, and since 1960 sun energy slopes down and surface warming sharply increases up using 11 year averaging. So, can’t explain warming by sun activity.
Just search for total solar irradiance chart, should find it.
I have no desire to waste my time debating, you can start reading some of the available literature if if you are that interested. Your questions have answers or at least working theories, look for it yourself.
As for the most cost effective means of combating climate change, I’ll agree that the topic veers away from hard science and there is plenty of room for debate. But if someone is using the tired tropes that maybe it’s the sun, or natural causes on earth, or not man-made, then what are the odds someone who doesn’t even know the problem has the solution!
#1. Oh Dave, your passion is apparent. You are confused, >50% does not an actually answer the question, it is little more than your assumption. What is the actual percentage? If the science is settled, easy question. Tell me exactly how any of your vaulted scientists take use a 100 year sample size to extrapolate to within 4 significant figures, temperature changes for a planetary climate with a modest 50,000,000 years of timeline. Speaking of 4 signicant figures of accuracy, we’re thermometers that record keepers used in 1905 accurate to within even 2 significant figures? The least accurate measurement in any equation or experiment dictates the accuracy of the SCIENTIFIC results. Your a scientist, you should know that. I don’t blame you for not wanting a debate of science. Just answer what caused the middle age warm period. Or why glaciers are growing. Or how the hole the ozone layer repaired itself.
Working theories are theories, not settled science.
#2: Further Dave, outcome based science is just that. Choose the outcome you desire and then to prove it, using only the data which supports that outcome. Then have agreement from peers wishing for the same outcome. Viola, peer reviewed study. Climate change is a $100 billion dollar industry in the USA alone. It has to be real or these climate scientists stop the flow of federal grants. The solar and wind sectors have less FEAR to sell. AL Gore’s carbon offset business dries up. The UN becomes even less relevant so they HAVE TO KEEP THE SCAM ALIVE.
In REAL science, one almost always works from the contrarian position, working to disprove a predetermined outcome. Lambs to the slaughter. Fear sells. In fact it motivates customers. Ergo, “boiling oceans”, “bomb cyclone”, “polar vortex”. Climate catastrophization is the business model. That’s why, even though hurricanes are provably less frequent and less severe than they were 50, 70 and 100 years ago, we are sold a bill of goods about how bad they are becoming due to climate change. It’s a verifiable lie. Why???? And why would they lie????
People who think the Earth will unlivable are every bit as delusional as the people who think man has no impact on the environment. You’re just the flip side of the same crazy coin you rant and rave about…
so when we take 6000 to 8000 airplanes
per day out of the sky then we can talk about climate change
Sorry Raymond, I didn’t fully understand your point on the 6 to 8 thousand planes. I’m happy to talk climate change and practical ways to deal with it anytime. As far as planes or private jets, the people with the least amount of standing to even opine about what the ‘masses’ need to change, are the elites, like Leo DeCaprio, John Kerry or AL Gore.
Again, Well Said CancelProof !
I also do not deny that the global temperatures fluctuate, it has been going on for thousands of years. Scientists have started watching and recording the worlds climate temperatures since the 1800ās. Over these years the average surface temperature of the earth has risen about 1.0 degrees F. What we do know is that the activity of the sun greatly effects the weather on this planet along with the tilt of the earth (the earth is on a wobble cycle) that greatly effects the amount of energy we receive from the sun which effects our climate change. Overtime the earth has been increasing itās rotation speed and itās wobble resulting in warmer temperatures and a slightly longer day.
Wow Dennis, selfish sarcasm? Try educating yourself? How about sharing some of that ‘proven science’ before throwing around that kind of shade.
I just hope Dennis, and others, read those 2 books. Not for agreement with me, or you or the 1/2 of the country they think are dumb science deniers, but to realize other solutions to deal with a changing planet may be relevant. That the science of dealing with the inevitable changes can vary. I would hate to spend 100 trillion only realize we need a hundred more to turn around what may turn out to have been a better trajectory for the planet. Silence those that disagree. Get in line or be cancelled. Agreement or silence.
Climate scientists in the 70’s were too busy telling us we’d all starve after acid rain destroyed the planet…
Well Stated, CancelProof !
Just curious about when and why we suddenly were told we have a carbon footprint. Al has made hundreds of millions screaming untruths about mankindās demise. I have yet to hear how much he puts back into his beliefs but definitely doesnāt mind the billions our government gives to his cause. If you look back at all of the claims about such activities causing death, destruction and coastlines submerging cities, remind me which has come to fruition? I could go on, but I believe a majority still wants clean air, water and an affordable lifestyle. Happy camping!
You mean like when he (big AL) said “boiling oceans” 2 months ago. Or “rivers of rain”. Still hoping for someone, anyone, please show me where the boiling oceans are located. I have got to plan trip to see that. Hmmm, maybe it’s actually an exaggeration, also so known as fear mongering catastrophization. Bombastic speech like Polar Vortex. Bomb Cyclone. In my day we called them storms or blizzards.
LOLOLOL šš¤£šš¤£š
I use half the energy I used in a home. And probably 10% of the water! By using fuel to move to moderate Temps, my heating and cooling bill is near zero. Now I’m in a truck camper and get between 12-13 mpg.
10 years?? According to AOC climate change will have ended the world by then…
I’m new to this. I’m 43, I work and RV full time. My wife and I just started raising our 2 kids this way. 3 months in, I too, have noticed not all RVers follow the same code. I’m pretty static, we’re parked and we’re probably not moving for a while so I get to see people come and go, some of them after long stretches. The rigs that roll out after a week leave nothing behind, but the older rigs that roll out after months leave an appaling debris field. Seriously, where did that guy even get a shopping cart? It’s either trash, or worse, and there is ALWAYS broken cement blocks and boards.
We might all live just about the same way, but it’s become clear that we aren’t all the same.
As someone that has travelled to New Zealand quite a few times.They had the same issue of dumping at boondock or free sites. Now about 80% less sites there to boondock because of fly tipping and dumping. I believe its both locals and visitors that were a part of it.Some of it has to do with lack of places to pump out etc.
Full time boon docking RVers and litter
Yes, Karen, I have heard that RVers are less kind, more bothersome, and more numerous. I can’t say that I have seen a lot of that in the 6+ years we have owned and traveled in an RV. Earlier trips with my in-laws were focused on doing and seeing stuff outside the campground, so I don’t really know how those occupying other campsites behaved. However it was, they weren’t a problem that I recall. I don’t dispute the reality you’ve seen, but neither can I say that it matches mine.
Neal, As I wrote earlier, I have been RVing since the 70’s. I have never seen what Karen has described. I have met a few “less than desirable” individuals in our travels. But all in all, We have had good times. I see all of the comments on here that say that RVing culture has changed. I am not sure what that even means. We still go where we want to go and do all of the things we did since the 70’s. RVing is what you make it! Safe travels sir.
These extra charges for out of state campers don’t seem fair to me. I live in one state. I pay taxes in that state. When another camper comes to my state, I have paid for them to use it. So when I visit out of state, I expect the same courtesy from the state I’m visiting. We are all Americans. The 50 states are all part of the USA. I deserve to have an equal chance at booking a site anywhere in this country, as all Americans should. I do feel that Americans should have first choice to book sites and get Entry tickets to our national parks. I have no problem with foreigners visiting, but no American should be unable to visit their national parks in favor of foreigners.
Thanks, you just saved me typing all this.
I live in Canada, I am shocked that out of state costs are different for fellow Americans to camp..We don’t usually camp out of British Columbia, but I am now going to investigate if I will pay more to camp in another Province. Also we have the Garbage idiots here too..I just make sure we take out all our garbage and leave the site cleaner than we got it.. Have a great 2023 camping season FYI we own a RV site in Washington state, base of Mt Baker, and love it..
WOW!! I can’t believe you said the last sentence out loudš³
This train of thought is simply hilariousš¤£ Honestly, such is the luck of the draw when on the booking website(s) (during the same window of opportunity as you,) to reserve a campground (sometimes a year in advance.) This isn’t Ticketmaster, there are no bots, no ticket broker… Trust me, “NO FOREIGNER” (whatever your translation is) is stripping you or anyone else of a spot at a National/State/private camp ground/Park. Please make sure if you ever travel to another Country, visit landmarks, National Parks, stay at hotels, and restaurants, (before you get your entry ticket) obey and follow your rules, and make it a point to tell them you’re a FOREIGNER so you can be placed at the bottom of the list.
There are absolutely bots!! 100%!! There are campgrounds that sell out within seconds of sites becoming available. It’s not widespread yet but it absolutely affects all of the most popular places. If you can get reservations or buy tickets online for anything that is limited there are bots that have been set up to exploit that system.
No American should be unable to visit thier national parks in favor of foreigners. But I should be unable to visit my state park in favor of someone from three states away.
Your hypocrisy and lack of self awareness are truly amazing…
Last week I was at an AZ State Park. Three sites away was a group of motorcyclist. Three bikes parked on their site. Riders were complete with usual club patches. One of the bikers came out if her trailer with a hand full of trash. She threw the trash at the 55 gallon drum trash can. Some of the trash hit the ground. She started to walk away then saw me watching her. She went back and picked up the trash. I don’t like to judge a book by its cover, however I couldn’t help form a negative impression. Before all you bikers go ballistic on me; my very very best friend rides a Harley. He has all the club patches. I realize all bikers, and all people aren’t the same. Image the forever negative opinion someone else would have formed. Ethics in the USA are dead. It’s all about me!
I see people who judge are alive and well.
Isn’t that what you just did, Ed? š¤ Have a good day. š –Diane at RVtravel.com
Integrity is doing what you KNOW is right even when no one is looking!!
That is what is lacking in the USA but look who has been leading – politicians who think they are above others!
We all need to do better- the younger generation NEEDS us to show them a good example – Show your INTEGRITY!
There is a beautiful BLM dispersed spot on the mountain 30 minutes from my home. It’s a favorite spot for local families. Pre-covid, you never had trouble finding a site. Not anymore. Full-timers have moved in and set up residence & stay all summer ignoring the 14 day limit. They bring a ton of stuff and spread out. I talked to a couple last summer who bragged that they could stay for free all summer because the ranger was overwhelmed and never hassled them. They were in a 40 ft MH with a large trailer and large Polaris OHV and so much stuff everywhere. All the vegetation within 50 yards of their site was mowed down. I’m sure the spot will eventually close to everyone so the mountain can heal. It’s already happened to another popular local spot. Then the full-timers will move to another free place that they can take advantage of & destroy. All the local families will be out of luck but who cares as long as they got to camp for free. Sad
I agree with Karenā¦many people just could care less about our environment, and donāt think about the fact that they ruin it for others, and their actions may well impact their children and their grandchildren for generations to comeā¦this planet is our only homeā¦save it, please.
I hear and agree.
I think Karen has witnessed an RV culture once familiar to her changing. It is common for most folks to resist change whether it be good or bad change. But change, it will come, and the best we can do is affect change for the better and adapt to it.
I think she is dealing with it the best way she can … Sit back out of the fray and enjoy the memories of what you had.
Itās not just our Veres that feel they no longer need to contribute to society. As our population ages, increasingly people vote down school bonds and library bonds, and any improvements to local schools or support of education at all because their kids are all grown and they no longer use the system. Or people buy a new home in a new neighborhood, and then complain about the construction and added population in their area. or the one I love is it people buy a house near an airport and complain about the noise. my take away is that there are people out there that just keep taking and taking and taking and donāt want to give back. Back to the original point, it is disgusting when people do not take care of our natural resources and leave it in better condition than when they arrived.
When our local school wanted $6 million dollars for a new ball field. I went to the local school and saw in their display case only rewards for sports achievements. NONE for scholastic accomplishments!
Soon we will be playing sports while our Chinese masters watch and laugh!
Guess how I voted.
I began voting against the levies you mention, but not because I feel I āhave paid my duesā. When my public library becomes a place I canāt safely take my grandchildren (it has), and indoctrination replaces education (yes, I am a retired public school teacher), I am not going to support these institutions by voting to increase their budgets. I believe in giving back and care greatly about the world I am leaving to my grandchildren, whom I am currently helping educate. I agree that people ought not to move to an area and then complain to stop the surrounding farming or industrial activity that pre-existed their arrival. I am grateful to the citizens of all the states who have wisely invested in camping facilities for public use. We should use them wisely and be willing to pay a fair price for them. It is up to adults to model and teach the next generations to value, preserve, and protect our freedoms and resources.
Absolutely correct and until schools start teaching again, I will continue to vote down the bonds. Once schools cease to be indoctrination camps, I will start to relent. Once parents get to decide again if there child of 10 years should receive a gender fluidity course, I shall begin to relent. Once it is illegal again, for a teacher to begin gender transitioning a child without a parents consent, then too I shall relent. End the chemical castration for children. Doesn’t seem like too radical of a position.
Some if not the majority of the states take the park entrance fees and put them directly into the states general funds which is used across the board to operate the state. The paradox that state parks have is that they are being used more than ever since the start of COVID with less funds being allocated for their operation along with the cost of supplies and manpower that have risen. Approximately 80% of federal entrance fees go to that park and the remainder goes to those that do not charge a fee, combine it with rising cost and itās a huge issue. I have my senior park pass so I am not up to date on price increases however I do know that crowding is a big issue that also increases the amount of trash and damage parkās receive. Unfortunately we have many people using the parks that are disrespectful and PIGS!
There is obviously some truth here, especially regarding trash! My husband does trash detail often because he hates litter! At Lake Mead another camper commended him and grabbed a bag and joined the effort. At a Texas COE site he collected 3 contractor size trash bags… mainly cans because the lake is so low all the cans thrown in the lake were visible. Reminds me of the old litter commercial with the Native American and the tear. My generation said don’t be a litter bug…. but that mantra has passed with time… need to bring it back!
As a kid we camped 3 weeks a summer in our 16′ trailer. Late Spring, Summer, and early Fall we were at a park somewhere AT LEAST once a month to “cook out’ with friends and family. Fire pits and grills always had some sort of trash in them to be cleaned out before we could use them. I know – it was us kids job. Pop bottles littered the ground – a good thing, we got 2 cents each. There were 140 million people here when I was a kid – now there are over 330 million. That is just short of 2 million more people spreading more trash. I mean more trash in that McDonalds et. al. weren’t around to create take out trash. We covered the usable earth with concrete so we could travel to places without concrete. So, we can complain about it or be happy we have running water, in-door plumbing and electricity – even in our RVs. I would prefer less concrete, no electricity and kerosene lamps, but that is just me. I’m still going camping.
Was that written with a hammer and chisel on a cave wall before being transfered to an electronic screen? Just curious.
I do love the irony you pointed out on the ‘…. pouring of concrete in order to travel for no concrete…’. You did nail that.
I chiseled that when I was a kid in the Black Hills. You can find it out there somewhere. In my lifetime I have traveled more gravel roads than hard roads. I just get tired of people talking about trash. It has been around in my forever and it will be around – not that I like it at all. It amuses me that everyone that reads RVT are so perfect. (They don’t know that I snuck in here.)
Happy Easter, Ramadan. Passover or even candy day, Kelly R. Safe travels. Thanks for the laugh. š¤£š
I was a boy scout in an earlier life. I still adhere to those camping rules: pick up after yourself and leave the site in better shape than when you arrived.
Not all of us RVer’s are junk monkeys. Just as not all non-RVer’s are polite, respectfull, or attentive drivers. There is that 10% in any group that is an issue.
Today, with the rising cost of everything, everybody is trying to get by as cheaply as they can. So why is that a problem when talking about RVing?
And when you talk about “taking”, do you have any idea how much money RVer’s drop into the local economy? Perhaps you’d like us to “take” our money somewhere else?
Please use a little smaller brush when you talk about “all RVers”.
Take take take. The queen rubes her eyes is his wallet.
RVer’s contribute very little to local economies. The whole point of having an RV is to not have to rely on local amenities and services. You bring as much with you as you possibly can. Gas is thier single biggest expense and very little of that money stays local.
Having been a seasonal full-time rv-er for the past 5 years, I have had similar experiences as the author. Which is why I prefer being nomadic so I can avoid places that attract the “me first” crowd. We have stayed at places that are proactively managed to ensure everyone has a peaceful and pleasant stay.
I travel to see family.
I don’t live freely off of others. I do spend money on stuff in the various towns I cross through.
There are two different people mentioned here.
#1 freeloaders who have no respect, they use, abuse and trash places. Parking in prime spots. Leaving s pile of trash behind.
#2 people like me, I try to stay as far away from other rugs as possible, leaving larger areas for either the larger rugs or, newbies (can’t park straight). Whatever I pack in I pack out. Frankly, I try not to pack In much.
Although I see and understand your frustrations, you really have to see that it really is the few that are ruining it for everyone.
Wishing you more Happy Trails.
I agree with Karen M. article. We left RV’ing for same reasons. Sad to see damage being done to ecosystem by boondocking off road. Not all do this but we were seeing it more & more.
You’ve got bad apples in every group. There are people who leave/throw out trash who live in sticks and bricks…there are the homeless who leave trash everywhere. I’m sure there’s an equal amount of RVers who clean up after themselves. Why do some people just look for the negative?
We camp at mainly private parks, and on occasion if needed we will camp at public parks. But it doesn’t seem to matter what park, we find those who do not pick up after themselves or their pets. It seems to be the times where pey don’t think the rules include them.
Then those who think I paid x amount of money to camp here and they should have someone to pick up after them. People have no idea what it cost to maintain a facility. And since covide things have gotten more expensive, and help is harder to find. Then to find good help.
Doesn’t matter what kind of park you go to, the problems seem to be the same.
I have turned, picking up trash, into a hobby !!! I have 2 grabbers. One is 5 feet long. I take cleaning the Earth very seriously !!!
I also do this when hiking and kayaking. Maybe picking up litter will become thing for more people. Keep up the good work.
Yes I RV full time and yeah there are really rude and disgusting people that don’t care about only themselves leaving trash and other things around camp ground
Yes I also RV full time. We have a beautiful country and I wish more people would respect it as such. I am a retired military veteran and it saddens me to see the trash that humans leave behind themselves. Side by side-by-sides are the worst. They throw their trash wherever. It only takes a few to destroy it for all. I clean up whenever I can even on my walks. Freedom isn’t Free . Please don’t take it for granted.
Dear “KAREN” I find your letter to be laughable, extremely vague, biased, and lacking facts to substantiate your claim of “unquestionable RVers.” First of all there is nothing free about RV camping. Secondly, in regards to boondocking, it applies to tent campers as well. Sometimes these areas do require a permit. Third, as far as trash is concerned, tent campers can be just as unquestionable, and obnoxious. I’ve been camping for over 30 years in tents and in RV. I have never seen trash left behind at a campsite. That is minus an empty box of beer sitting in the fire pit. Fourth, It’s the character of the person not how the person chooses to camp that determines how someone leaves a campsite. Fifth, I’d love for you to explain how RVers don’t have ethics, in addition to having entitlement issues
by “taking it all and contributing nothing.” You were on the road for 16 months. So it looks like you’re guilty of bragging about free s*** and taking advantage of the world’s generosity!
Gee, I can’t help but wonder why you’re so offended. A little too close to home maybe??
Dear Karen,
It’s sounds like a boomer complaining about other boomers. Imagine that…a boomer or Gen Z taking and taking and taking, and never giving back. Trashing the planet for their own benefit. #Americatoday š¤£
Sounds like someone fits the description and doesn’t enjoy being called out for it…
Yes, it’s all true. Feel better now? You can’t change the world. Get over it. Go RVing and for God’s sake try to enjoy yourself. Jeez.
Where’s all this free stuff she’s talking about? Am I missing something???
Good question. Nothing about this hobby or lifestyle is free – itās quite expensive.
Boy, would I like to get things for free when camping. Last year in our months long trip, we spent roughly $160.00 per day. This would be campsites, food, restaurants, laundry, tours, out of state fees, tolls for roads, gas (6 mpg), and minor repairs to car and motorhome. This does not include the 6 new tires or major repairs we do when we are not ‘on the road’. We certainly don’t leave a mess for someone else to clean-up. We stay mostly in state or city campgrounds and make reservations as far ahead as we can. The daily total did not include the 2 months reservations we had to cancel due to medical issues.
I will say, the new campers we see have been an eye opener. They have no consideration for other campers, the campground, or local environment. Trash everywhere, dogs barking, kids driving their golf carts, and fires with food garbage, We are normally on the road 7 – 8 months a year for the last 14 years; and camped since 1999 to a lesser degree.
While traveling we do stay at WalMart {always calling ahead and shopping for whatever), Flying Js, Cracker Barrels, etc. We take ALL our garbage and pick up the RV “you owe me’s” garbage left behind to the dumpster. We feel we should leave these places cleaner than we found them. The inconsiderate dumping and over camping causes all to lose the extended convenience.
Shame on those dog lovers who don’t pick up after their dog.
Littering is an attitude that needs adjustment, but has little or anything to do with RVing, but only with the attitude toward society in general. The same type people litter no matter where they are or what they drive or even when walking. They are selfish people. They had a clean spot and road and nature, they don’t care that other people won’t.
You see that attitude in more situations – not just RVing.
If it’s any consolation, boaters are similar. While boaters aren’t long term users, for the most part, the more recent ones we had encountered until leaving the experience, were loud and obnoxious and thought nothing of their barking dogs and rowdy group members, and that was more likely adults than children.
Marinas are strictly charged per night and the only “free” locations are open waters, rivers, coves, etc. I spent decades boating on larger vessels, 30-40′ and the value of the boat had no bearing on the class of the people involved. Fortunately I can’t say I ever saw any boaters tossing trash over the side, although I wonder how many dumped their heads instead of dealing with the often free pumpout boats.
I’d also correlate the behavior to certain political leanings, although admittedly I never did a true poll.