EDITOR’S NOTE: RVtravel.com is regularly invited to participate in nationwide conference calls with large RV dealers and others involved in the sales and servicing of RVs. We won’t be directly naming those on the call, nor the dealerships involved. While the situation is unusual, we feel the value of the candid comments and information that we can share with you outweighs the lack of the usual attribution. This time, you’ll just have to trust us that the quotes come from trusted, vetted sources.
If you’re in the market to buy a new RV, you might want to wait a bit. RV dealers on a recent nationwide conference call said the quality of most recreational vehicles now being produced is “pathetic.”
“It’s some of the worst stuff I’ve seen in 30 years,” said one longtime RV dealer. “It’s horrendous inside and out. But we have no recourse but to put it on the lot and try to sell it. You take what you can get, and you move on.”
The dealer said he suspects many longtime RVers are delaying purchasing a new rig, since it’s no secret – at least on social media and many blogs – that new RV owners aren’t happy with their purchases. “The lack of quality and all of the negative comments in the chat rooms have to be holding people back from moving forward with a purchase.”
The East Coast dealer said RV manufacturers are “building them as fast as they can, and there just isn’t any quality control. Manufacturers are not doing a good job of taking care of their customers. It’s gone from bad to worse.”
Will the industry topple?
One West Coast dealer echoed those thoughts. “My greatest fear now is watching the motorized RV industry get toppled,” he said. “They just don’t have the expertise to complete a motorhome in Northern Indiana anymore. Their labor force has no eye for quality and they have no way of teaching it. The industry is ripe for someone else to step in and start producing quality products, but it will likely have to be someplace other than Indiana. Right now, if the workers there get upset by something, they just walk off because it’s easy to get a job in Elkhart right now.”
He cited one manufacturer who admitted that he usually has no idea what his workforce will look like from week to week. “He said on Mondays, he never knows who is going to show up.”
A New England dealer said some manufacturers are only running their plants three to four days a week due to shortages in both parts and labor. “The quality that is coming out is just terrible,” he said. “Their ability to retain employees is bad. You can just tell that the guys on the manufacturing lines have been on the job for just a week. Plants don’t have the proper staffing, and they can’t do the service after the sale.”
Even newbies notice the poor quality
It isn’t just dealers who have noticed the drop in quality. “I had one newbie who purchased what they thought was the Taj Mahal of RVs,” said one dealer. “They take their first trip with it, and they come back in with 40 different problems with it. Then, I get to tell them they have to wait weeks or even months to get it fixed because nobody can get the parts.”
All of this angst on the part of dealers comes at a time when manufacturers are celebrating their success in producing record numbers of units.
The industry is projecting it will produce nearly 580,000 rigs by the end of 2021, and set a new record in 2022 with more than 600,000 new factory shipments.
“Continued robust demand for RVs, the need for RV dealers to restock historically low inventories, the strong financial standing of consumers, and sustained interest in the outdoors will work to keep RV shipments elevated,” said the RV Industry Association in a recent press release.
“Faced with many of the same kinds of supply chain and labor issues plaguing most industries over the past year, the RV industry has overcome these challenges and produced a record number of RVs month after month,” said Jeff Rutherford, President & CEO of Airxcel and RV Industry Association Chairman.
COMING NEXT SUNDAY: Roadside assistance companies stretched thin by huge growth in RVers and lack of available service centers
##RVT1017b
Pathetic quality is the best I have heard of these new RVs. We bought our class A from the 2018 Winnebago line. The quality of materials and workmanship is not good. But I would have never even considered one after 2018 line. Then the quality and workmanship became pathetic. 4 years later every single trip, and we have had many. needs a trip to the shop. Our paint job since being a year old looks like it is 20 years old and uncared for. We even purchased the extra sealant. No one will take responsibility for it. Very embarrassing! No, we won’t be buying a new RV until they fix the quality.
So Bugsy, you are saying this all began before COVID and all the supply chain problems. Simply a a matter of greed and resulting poor quality. Not a political issue!
COVID is a virus, not a politician.
For decades RV dealers pushed anything off the lot, in any condition, just to get the sale. “There will always be little issues to address. Take it for a shakedown cruise, bring us the punchlist and we’ll have you back on the road humming like a top. (In 3 to 6 months if you’re lucky.)” Their crocodile tears at manufacturers treating them how they have always treated us ring hollow to me.
When states get laws that protect owners and get GOOD ENFORCEABLE lemon laws, they still won’t make RVs worth a hoot. Think back…worked on the car manufacturers! Hit them on the bottom line. I want to buy a Class A upper end Diesel. I will hold on to my older one and collect high investment rate. Car dealers went out of business when the manufacturer produced poor quality. Dealers STOP buying them…..they will change.
Yes, lemon laws helped, but what fixed the American car manufacturing problem was competition from the Japanese. Before the Japanese became involved the normal life of an American automobile was 70,000 miles. Now, even sad American brands (like Chevrolet) can be expected to last almost 200,000 miles before a major breakdown and Japanese brands can be expected to go 250,000 miles. If someone, like the Japanese or Koreans, ever gets into RV manufacturing, the American RV industry will quickly either go belly-up or clean up their act.
exactly!
That’s exactly right. It was competition from the Japanese.
Much of that increase in longevity though is due mostly to fuel economy, safety and emissions regulations. They forced manufacturers to move to tighter tolerances, computerized engine & drivetrain management and eventually, highly advanced, precise fuel injection.
Meanwhile materials & techniques both got better over time, as technology usually does. Often driven by those same regulations.
Right now, nearly all auto & pickup manufacturers are having supply & quality problems similar to RV companies. Bad paint, bad weatherproofing, parts assembled incorrectly, parts missing. Yet they’re making it out the door. My guess – and that’s all it is – is they are experiencing parts shortages *and* labor shortages. So the first thing managers do for the latter is take people off the Quality Assurance lines and throw them onto the assembly lines assuming it’s the same skill. Or not caring, just to get units out the door to prop up this quarter’s numbers.
“RV dealers are fed up with what manufacturers are producing” Except dealers are out there pushing them off on unsuspecting buyers and laughing all the way to the bank. Yah, sure they are fed up alright. Dealers should stop ordering from the same plants until the quality issues are legitimately addressed. Bad units will continue to be produced as long as dealers are buying them.
That’s exactly what I was thinking. These dealers are to blame as well. They accept the junk and sell it without trying to correct any of the problems.
With every dealer that stands up, there will be ten fold who will just keep on selling junk. The ones who stand up will be out of business in no time. Until there’s a groundswell from dealers, nothing will change.
The issue goes beyond the RV manufacturers. The components that they buy are of poor quality. I have a 2020 model that while well built, the appliances are a problem. They are all Dometic, and I anticipate needing to replace them over the next few years.
Your right Mike, it’s not just the manufacturers, the components, most notably Dometic’s, quality has demised rapidly over the last couple years, it’s sad seeing first hand what is coming out of Indiana lately. I’m a Mobile RV Tech and the things I see lately just make my head swim. My phone has been busier than ever.
Our local RV dealer has only 6 new units on his lot, a fiver and some travel trailers. This place was always jammed with new stuff. The repair yard out back however is loaded, most of the new stuff waiting to be fixed so it could be delivered. When I went to have the propane filled on our motorhome it took awhile as they had to cut someone loose to do it. Turned out to be the boss man and he told me most of jammed lot was new and waiting for parts, the rest were longtime customers waiting for repairs (also no parts). He was extremely frustrated and about ready to call it quits after many years. Can’t say I blame him.
You couldn’t give me a new RV! We’ll stick with our 07 thanks very much.
Seems like the “Camping World policy”” has trickled up to the manufacturers. Push it out the door and screw the customer. Customers are the lamb being led to slaughter.
3 months waiting a part for a 2019 THOR, first it was COVID, believable, now found out the part comes from Mexico and CEVA won’t respond to inquiries about delivery. The part was delivered to location within 25 miles of our home, yet it still hasn’t been delivered to dealer. While THOR employees have made an effort, there is no movement from UPPER MANAGEMENT to diversify parts and have alternative component manufacturers. Sure getting tired of COVID excuses.
Interesting that when a warranty part breaks you wait months for the part. Yet, the same part is available on the assembly line to crank out yet another poor quality RV. Pull the parts off the line to satisfy warranty claims.
Mach 8 Air Conditioners is a perfect example of what you stated. You are absolutely correct.
Well, 7,000,000 of the workforce on ‘paid vacation’ by covid relief and unemployment benefits just got ‘laid off’ of laying around at home, so more typical factory workers will now have to find work. But as the thing points out, even before this insane rush, the work was very available in the camper industry main hub. Until they improve their employee standards (like experience and good references) things will continue pretty much as is. There’s a vid out there on a Jayco plant assembly line where they show the workers literally running with sections of camper walls on cranes as they slap these things together of one of their models of sticks and staples wrapped in aluminum. At end of the vid, the host brags ‘we make 37 units a day on this line’! After seeing that, I would never buy a Jayco product. If in the market, search for videos of your potential choice being assembled or at least on the maker’s factories for similar models / floorplans to see what you may be getting into.
I bought a new Coachman Freedom Express Ultralight 2020. It’s absolute junk. Air conditioner was replaced three time ( under warranty) . Entertainment center ( which was hardly used) died. I had to purchase a new one to fix it. Then just tons and tons of small issues. Shower leaked, commode leaked, shelve fell off (in kitchen), battery died within one year, external running lights died, etc., etc. Here is the rule of law. If your not a handy man able to fix the issues that are assured to happen or have a pocket full of money to pay someone to repair it. Don’t buy one.
Who remembers that in 2016 Greg Gerber, after publishing his eight-part document, “the rv death spiral”, was forced to close shop after years of honest reporting on the rv industry by threats of being sued by the rv industry leaders. Now, the same players are just discovering that general rv quality is crap! It was fascinating reading then, though many critics accused Greg of being “un-patriotic”, etc., etc. To read it today, five years later, it’s scary and sad to see that nothing has changed except the levels of hype and propaganda by the industry leaders. At least now, contrary to 2016, some are starting the finger-pointing game…”it’s not my fault, it’s them.”….A formal reprint of Greg’s articles could serve the public much more than a few comments here and there.
Yes, and I also recall the 180 degree turnaround of “the RV wingman” after a trip to Elkhart. Now a much more industry friendly tune being sung there.
My 2021 Super C is going back to the factory to have BOTH sidewalls replaced under warranty. This is a HUGE job. Think about it: Essentially the entire house has to be deconstructed and then reconstructed.
I am holding my breath that it comes back to me in one piece without extra parts laying around that one knows not where they go. (Think “The Secret of My Success”)
Going to be a stressful month of waiting.
What brand Super C???
We bought a brand new 41 ft fifth wheel. We were charged for PDI which never happened. As when we took it to a local dealer for repairs, they even said it was never PDI’d with what they had to fix. The shower faucet wasn’t even attached to the stall or caulking. We purchased a special coating on the unit ‘clear kote?”which was supposed to be warranties, never was. One side of trailer is Shiney, other side dull. They brag about rv care and how they will come to your site to fix things, it is all lies. All this was way before covid.
I also was charged for a clear coat that wasn’t done. I fought with the dealer for years, never reimbursed.
“Now that clear coat, ya know, they put that on at the factory….”
I would also add that quite a few DIYers are converting decommissioned school busses, Box Trucks or even vans into RV’s in order to get something sturdier, with fewer long term issues than what is currently available on an RV lot.
25K can get you a stick built trailer…. or it can get you a Bus Chassis with a custom layout. <shrugs> Not hard to see why the “van life” and “skoolie” communities are burgeoning.
What exactly are these “parts” everyone is waiting for? Electrical, plumbing, mechanical? Surely these parts can’t be exclusively RV? Is there a specific RV class that the parts are affecting or is it across the board? Does the part have to be OEM? Is there a different part brand that will do the same job to solve the issue? Or will it simply not do cause of voiding warranty? What does one use when out of warranty? Has anyone thought about putting together a parts cross reference list or does one already exist?
Over the last year I’ve witnessed first hand shortages in windows, furniture, mattresses, toilets, and circuit breakers of all things. And those were just the memorable moments off the top of my head that I’m aware of. I happen to work in elkhart county for a travel trailer company. My suggestion? Buy Newmar or renegade. Newmar retains employees. Renegade has attracted talent. Even if you have an issue with a Newmar unit they have built an enormous service center in Nappanee to be fully capable of taking care of their clients. I’ve lived here since birth and everyone’s suspicions are right…… turnover, inadequate pay, and even the parts shortage crisis are causing this disaster.
Often the parts are raw materials. Membrane for covering a leaky slide, luan siding for the interior, vinyl flooring.
RV Fridges, almost all are made by Dometic, and the quality is abysmal, and aftermarket parts support is terrible. The Dometic fridge in my Escape fiberglass trailer conked out this last winter, I’m *still* waiting for the local service people to follow up with parts availability, and Dometic will not provide ANY parts or tech info to consumers, authorized service only.
RV Stoves, Ovens, mostly Suburban (who bought a lot of the smaller better companies), same thing.
AC units, same thing
DC power converters, I’ve had to replace several. The first one I replaced, the new module from a better brand was defective, it took months to get another one that worked.
all this stuff is RV specific.
Absolute rubbish to blame bad quality totally on come-and-go workers in Elkhart. Crummy quality has been a problem for many years, and it is caused by too many different models being rushed into production, too many units, a ‘do it fast as possible’ work plan in the factories, ‘just in time’ inventory policies, and buyers snapping up cheap but shoddy units.
And the dealers never banding together to demand higher quality units, so their techs can stop wasting time fixing junky installation at the factories. Add in monopoly or duopoly suppliers cranking out bad equipment that buyers have to replace over and over, lots more money for them. As long as all this goes on, it doesn’t matter who you hire or how long they stay, high turnover just adds icing on a bad cake.
I bought my 29 ft Class A prior to COVID. The quality and workmanship was very poor then. I can’t image how poor it would be now, with high employee turnover. Now is not the time to buy.
The exact words of the author “It’s horrendous inside and out. But we have no recourse but to put it on the lot and try to sell it. You take what you can get, and you move on.”…..How about refuse to sell junk and have some pride in what you sell your customer. If enough dealers have standards on what they sell off their lot, maybe the manufacturers will step up their quality control. The dealers are just passing the buck but they are equally at fault.
An excellent point
Absolutely.
It’s a mixed bag on dealers caring, but regardless, their choice is to sell what they can get or go out of business. They lose their investment in property, buildings, tools, etc., lose their source of income, and similarly impact all their employees. They are just trying to make it through until (hopefully) things get better. In the meantime, they have to deal with the mess the manufacturers are causing.
Over 40 years, I worked my way up from tent camping with the kids to a Class A just recently. In every instance I have done a shake-down cruise and there have been issues – I accept that as being the nature of assembling parts, pieces and components together. But I too am disappointed. For the life of me, I don’t understand why with reputation of quality being of utmost importance for further sales, why would they put out a unit with obvious problems. I had a leaking toilet, leaking shower, gaps where the walls meet the floor and ceiling, trim, slides ripping the lino floor. It has to do with assembly. Every other assembly plant in the world has a quality inspection – but not the RV one.
They concocted this fictitious story about how the dealer would find and fix any issues in ‘dealer prep’ work, so why do it twice. After decades, we now know this method does not work.
Meanwhile, many people have been increasingly poorly paid since the 1970s, and are forced to buy the cheapest stuff available. They will not pony up for the higher quality brands. Dealers will tell you many quality brands have gone under because of this. Nu-Wa I think was part of this group.
Up in the upper income brackets, buyers think they are getting higher quality, but you only buy a half-million dollar RV once or twice in your life, and you are easily bamboozled by granite counters and bells and whistles. By the time they get wise, they are pushing 80 and hanging up the keys instead of coming back to buy again.
We have a 2006 Hitchhiker (Nu-Wa), purchased in 2015. To Alaska and back no problems. Tire problems in the years that followed, we upgraded tires to a higher load rating and that seems to have solved the tire issue. Did about $8K in work on it in 2020 at the former Nu-Wa factory, then had a new “forever” Flex Armor roof put on … yes it’s heavy, but it is very well made. Shame that Nu-Wa went under. They don’t make them like they used to!!
It’s not just Elkhart. We bought a Sundowner toy hauler, made in Oklahoma, to specifically avoid an Elkhart built coach, and somewhat reduce our exposure to Lippert junk, especially the frame. We visited the plant, and they said all the right things, but it was a nightmare literally from day one. I spent two years getting it straightened out, doing most of it myself, and then sold it. There is no pride in workmanship, even in a so-called family owned operation outside Elkhart.
The whole industry is as unscrupulous as it gets.
I’m a supplier to the RV industry. The Elkhart plants literally ship to their other plants the exact same materials. Someone lied to you. You’re going to get the same crap no matter where it’s built if it’s an Elkhart brand.
The door is wide open for a quality RV. There are a few companies making quality RV’s but not in Indiana and not owned by Thor, Winnebago or Forest River. The fiberglass units out there such as Casita, Escape and Big Foot are nicely built. Bowlus is very nice if you have a few hundred thousand lying around for an over nighter.
We sold our five year old manufactured Class A diesel because it literally fell apart and we were in fear during each trip of having another round of problems each time we took a trip. We bought an eight year old MCI J-4500 converted with 150K and have been delighted with it over the past two years having driven more than 40K miles. Great quality conversion, fantastic ride and service with regular easy to get maintenance and not worrying about roof leaks, shelves and cabinets falling of the walls and a myriad of mechanical problems. These problems in the RV industry should not be reduced to petty political shots as poor quality in these non-union plants has been a long time and worsening problem coupled with the importation of low quality parts and supplies from China and elsewhere. In my opinion, if the poor quality, poor service and rising prices continue, you will see the beginnings of strong buyer resistance and a possible collapse of the RV industry.
Our intake gas line was bent sharply under a bracket and at just 4000 miles the friction wore a hole in the line, leaking gas!! Horrible! We have a small Thor Motorhome!
I have a 2015 trailer by Northwood manufacturing in Oregon (Nash, OutdoorsRV, Arctic Fox). I have never had a problem with it. They are extremely well built. The biggest downside is they’re heavy so you really need a full size pickup to pull them.
We purchased our 2nd Outdoors RV, a 2021 Titanium 24RLS. Love the unit. Quality SUCKS. I’ve tightened over 200 external screws. From quarter turn to falling out. Went through all electrical connections (12 &120 volt) – scary loose connections.
3 water leaks first night
Front window literally FELL OUT just sitting in driveway! -Improperly installed – no glue adhesion, dunno how I got it home…
Water pump just went out, waiting for parts.
Floor squeeks badly.
Outside doors set so poorly screen door didn’t cover edge’s of door jam. I removed door frame screws and set frame straight, reattached. Damn thing installed with door frames looking like a rainbow
Switches, monitors, etc usually installed crooked, looks cheap.
Of course all cabinet hardware needed straightened tightened or repaired
I refuse to return the unit for repair – I am my own warranty center – don’t trust the entire industry anymore.
Dealer PDI a farce
I’d like to see em in kit form, put it together myself!
We have had 2 Arctic Fox truck campers, no issues with either one.
I worked for an RV dealer ship in Indiana I can tell you first hand some units are absolutely junk.
But we are full time RVers we just got lucky when we bought ours brand new in 2018.
Happy Camping good luck!
Depressing. The article & comments. All I can say is grateful we kept our 2002 Newmar Dutchstar. New engine after 170K miles, new paint under partial warranty (after 15 yrs!) and some interior upgrades and it’s like new.
“Will the industry topple?”
The first funny part and the paragraphs preceding it too!
“Even newbies notice the poor quality”
Really they didn’t before, what a stuck up snob quote!
RV manufacturing QC has been a Shit show for 40 years, let me tell you the dealerships I’ve felt with weren’t any better! Even design and engineering is behind the times by about 10 to 20+ years… consolidation (M&A) in the industry is not good for the industry… So many things wrong but in the end it’s corporate greed. Build it as cheap as you can and sell it at the highest price you can…
Consolidation wiped out many smaller but high quality manufacturers. Two or three major firms now produce the majority of rvs. Many experienced rv workers were lost to other companies when the industry struggled during the recession.. The huge surge in sales largely related to the epidemic caused a huge decline in qualty. Assembly people with no experience replaced a well trained work force. Dealers are stuck with poor qualty inventory and are overwhelmed with warranty issues. Some of the very high end manufacturers still in business are good if you can afford them. I now have a van I converted myself.
I unexpectedly bought a new 2021, 36′ Forest River Salem TT last month, so i’ll give the 1st person report. Across an entire large lot (100s?) of RVs, exactly 3 were good enough to even consider. MANY the dealer said “don’t even look at that…we’re fixing mistakes before showing.” They’re playing it up as how good their own prep is, but admitting units aren’t even viewable quality as delivered is another level! The best 3, I repeatedly said “not right but i can fix…” The final winner? I made them reseal several areas of the roof that were BOUND to leak very soon, recaulked the bathroom myself after the sale, and it hasn’t exploded in the first 1500 miles… but I do wonder if I’ll get the 13 years out of this one I got out of the last.
Be handy and learn to tinker with and fix things. I actually enjoy doing that myself. Many
people are not suited to own an RV. Even before Covid. Lots of maintenance involved.
RV’s have lacked quality for a long time, I purchased a 2017 5th wheel Jayco and it was in the shop the 1st two years. To this day it still has problems but I’ve learned to fix it myself because the place I bought it from has a two to three month wait for any work. If you’re driving through El Paso don’t stop and try to get your rig fixed because it won’t happen. To all of the newbies please use caution when buying a new rig, inspect it twice and make sure it’s what you want because it’s a huge purchase and get the extended warranty if possible.
RV quality has been poor for the last 15+ years. Staffing shortages have only exacerbated an existing problem. This is a greed and bottom dollar issue more than anything else.
Wow! I had no idea it was so bad until I read this article and comments! We have an old class A, 2001 Triple E Commander and have not had a single problem with the interior, exterior or motor. We were planning to buy a much newer coach, but now, maybe not. Thank you for this article, and thank you folks for the comments.
stick with what you own for now
I have a 2011 Triple E,!50,000 K, same boring story, no problems
For those who don’t know, Triple E is now Leisure Van, Built in Canada
This article makes me glad I have kept my ’73 GMC Sequoia motorhome alive all these years, sounds to me like this new stuff is just junk. Maybe it’s time for general motors to enter the coach building business again
Why? When was the last time you bought a Chevy? They’re junk as well.
GMC was a quality build and a motorhome way ahead of its time. Front wheel drive with a big Chevy 454 as I recall. Smooth as could be going down the road. My father in law had one and it was great fun to use on several trips. No problems that I remember although I know he kept a spare transmission. Great visibility, air bag suspension to level, aero dynamic they look modern by today’s standards. Which I would have kept and rebuilt as the next owner he sold to do.
We bought a 2006 25 Foot Airstream Safari in 2018.. Have spent about 5 G’s upgrading. Something happens every trip. (Last trip a piece of Tire flew underneath and knocked our Black Tank Handle off!).. It’s cool. Mobile Mechanic fixed it quickly. Air Conditioner is noisy.. Hail Dimples up top.. I think we’ll keep her. Screw the Larcenous Dealers and Manufacturers. They have Stockholders to answer to!.. Not Customers!.. Sure would love a Big New Super C.. Not gonna do it!
The youth of America today. I’m glad I’m old, they’ll have to deal with crap they’re putting out and then they’ll see why it pays to do a good job.
We purchased a Thor Axis new in 2017. Finally fed up in 2020 and sold it through a dealer. So happy to be rid of it. Never again. We ordered a new Casita from the factory in December 2020. Pickup date is January 2022. We miss the fun and travel but not the unending problems related to Thor. Hope Casita is better.
Sad to read about so many quality issues. Truth is the industry has always had far too many quality issues but now it’s even worse. I went from tent camping to a very basic 32ft 5th wheel in 2002. Already had a new Ford F350 to tow it with. We dragged that thing on our maiden voyage to every state west of the Mississippi and all the big name national parks for almost three months on the road. Only problem was one flat tire on the truck. Our value price level trailer had zero problems. Next rv was a much bigger and nicer Montana 5th wheel. Dragged it back and forth from our home in Florida to northern Maine and Canada and more trips out west for 5 years. Once again no problems. Moved up to two different Class A motorhomes. This was during the big rv recession just before most of the smaller manufacturers were swallowed up by a few majors. We had a few problems that were easily repaired under warranty. Then came the mega mergers and covid and quality was lost. Built my own van.
I can tell you I have owned Travel trailers , 5th wheels and Truck campers for over 30 years and the Forest River trailer is by far the worst of any one that I have owned in the past. I had my Texson truck camper for 21 years and I wish I had it back. I have had to put panels in my Forest River trailer back in place with screws because the tiny staples they used did not even hit wood or they popped out. the worst thing is the underbelly is covered with some kind of fabric and has holes in it. What is up with that???? I still owe on this trailer but I will never buy another travel trailer from Forest River. I plan on going back to a truck camper if I can find one that is built to last for a very long time.
I purchased a 2019 Bullit new and had electrical issues with the running lights. Took it to the dealer and they said they couldn’t find anything wrong with it. So sitting home over Covid time when we couldn’t go anywhere I decided to look at it my self. It took me 25 minutes to find the problem. The wiring was wrapped around the frame and was being pinched between the frame and the flooring. How does that even happen? . Poor workmanship, that’s how.
I purchased a new expensive 2021 “Brand W” and had the same issue with wires pinched between the frame and floor. It was a neutral wire that intermittently shorted to ground – that does not blow the breaker but instead sometimes trips the ground fault outlet. PIMA to find and no way would I let a dealer try to troubleshoot a “sometimes” electrical problem. Really sad that it left their factory like this; was apparent somebody either did not care or did not look at what they were doing.
70 comments in just 6 hrs. Dang.
Oh…and “chat room”? I guess that dealer hasn’t been on the internet for about 20 years. Lol.
Listen up people the only way this industry is going to change is for people to stop buying the junk they are pushing out. My wife and I were seriously ready to buy a Grand Design last year until several people that owned them told us don’t. They said what happened with this company is common. Two guys that had been in the business for years with another manufacturer decided to build a quality rv, and they did for a few years. Actually GD was one of the elite RVs for a time. Then the two founders sold out for a big Payday and the quality dropped significantly. Luckily my old neighbor back in Kentucky had his 2012 Redwood up for sale and I bought one of the best brands on the market for a very good price. It sold new for 112000 and he gave it to me for 44500.
People think these common flaws in new stuff is a fluke, it’s not it’s a reminder that all the huge corporations that build junk care less about there reputation or yours. I say but something used at least 6 years or older.
I also own a Barletta pontoon boat. They were started by a former RV exec who said did not like the quality in the pontoon boat industry. We could see some of the differences they were doing and seemed worth paying a little more. They follow up, customer service hotlines during holiday periods, even sent us Christmas gifts (nice beach towels) which was a shock. After a few years owning ours have not found anything to complain about. Nothing done to it.
Well just saw an email where Barletta recently where they were excited to announce they just sold to Winnebago of all groups. So my guess is Barletta will go to crap shortly. End of the day it’s just about making money
There is no doubt that there are quality problems but I suspect the dealer complaints are “crocodile tears”. If they were really concerned , they could easily put pressure on the manufacturers to improve by using their association strength to press for it. They are making money and as one of the quotes in the article says “You take what you can get, and you move on.”, shows they are not serious on getting changes made. The dealers are well known in many situations to pass off problems as coming from the manufacturer. As long as there is money to be made and the dealers continue to turn a blind eye in telling the buyer of issues; nothing will change.
It all comes down to the consumer. As long as the many, many new RVers want to buy something, the dealers will sell it, whether they are unhappy with the quality or not, and the manufacturers will continue to let quality slide. The only way to change that is for newbies to stop buying…but they don’t know any better, do they? They trust the dealer not to sell them junk.
You aren’t factoring the crazy home prices. Where I live, people are buying RVs to live in, because they can’t afford an actual house. If your lease is up, and you can’t get another one for less than $1500/month, and you can’t even bid on a house before it gets sold, an RV can be the best option. Financially, an RV makes a lot of sense for lower-income people wanting to own their living space.
Many of these “newbies” “know better”, but don’t have any better options.
You beat me to it. The full quote is, “‘It’s some of the worst stuff I’ve seen in 30 years.’ said one longtime RV dealer. ‘It’s horrendous inside and out. But we have no recourse but to put it on the lot and try to sell it. You take what you can get, and you move on.’” What kind of person with any kind of conscience would knowingly accept what he believes to be “horrendous inside and out” and try to sell it to unsuspecting innocent buyers. Does he let his customers know what he thinks of his merchandise. Of course not, or he wouldn’t sell anything. This is why there is always a disclaimer on the bottom of every contract which states something about this written contract being the whole agreement between the parties. You cannot rely on any other statements, oral or otherwise that anyone has made to you. Everyone knows the salesmen lie through their teeth. You wont find their statements in that contract. As long as the dealer is willing to sell garbage he’s going to get garbage from the manufacturers. And as long as there are enough starry eyed innocents around for the salesmen to charm, the suckers will continue to be talked into buying the garbage. “Don’t sell the product, sell the dream.” The whole industry is corrupt from top to bottom.
Dealers do about a 40% markup on everything. Kind of forces the manufacturers to keep costs as low as possible. Everyone is guilty in this scenario and they are all pointing fingers. I’ve been on the supply side for ten years, my father for 40. ‘My husband sells to the dealerships. My friends build on the line. Our community is so tight and has created a monopoly. NOBODY in the RV industry RVs. Not on the OEM side. I’m exhausted trying to sell what’s already cheap product for pennies because they just want cheaper and cheaper so that dealers can mark up the sh*t out of everything.
We too have suffered from the abysmal quality issues coming out of Indiana, 2018 Grand Design Reflection 285BHTS full-timers; too many issues to list.
The quality will continue to be shite while the demand remains high, oversight is non-existent, and state lemon laws remain unsubstantial and unenforceable.
The only recourse we have, as consumers of the RV industry products, is to stop purchasing the shite they’re producing. Do yourself a favor and purchase an older unit and upgrade it yourself (or with local help) with products you can purchase off the shelf at your local Home Depot; you’ll save money, time, and frustration in the long run.
As the consumer, the RV bubble we find ourselves in, like the current housing bubble, is a condition of our own making. The bubble will pop and the RV industry will find itself scrambling to stay alive; we have the power to hasten. It can’t come soon enough for many and, may be too late for some, but it will happen, it’s cyclical.
Doing it yourself also has the benefit of teaching the new owner about their new, expensive purchase. This benefit will pay big dividends later, when something goes wrong and the owner doesn’t have to try to get it fixed at an unknown, perhaps not even nearby, repair shop.
Sure glad I got my slide in camper just before Covid hit, quality in mine is great !!
Google “Roblin v Newmar” to see an example of the poor quality you describe and the extent to which that vendor attempted to evade accountability and the law.
This is nothing new. I’ve been researching RVs for over 2 years, and the sad truth is… they are all overpriced junk. Manufacturers are notorious for lack of insulation, low materials quality, and lack of safety in their builds, yet sell their Class B’s for MORE than last year… all because of supply and demand. We are getting a controlled custom build for our Class B (out of Elkhart I might add) and are actually going to pay LESS than these mass produced off the rack junkers from well known manufacturers. They rip off customers with no regard to quality or safety, and blame their workforce for having “no eye for quality” and “have no way of teaching it”. These manufacturers have been in the business for decades. They can teach quality building. They can spend their profits on retraining. They can provide living wages to keep their workforce. They CHOOSE not to.
Robert, well put. I would be interested in discussing your “controlled custom build” as we are in the market for our next RV.
Do a search for Embassy RV. Tell them Roads of Life sent you!
Thank you!
i don’t know what RV manufactures pay their workers. but i can tell you how to give the manufacturers “an eye for quality” in two words…….LEMON LAW. hold the manufacturers accountable!
I just bought my trailer 2021 and before a month of having it it’s started coming apart… The kitchen sink pipes came undone.. the borders on the edges of the walls are coming off so can’t close doors good…the vent hood over the stove is coming down…the awning cover is coming off the railing… Waiting for the next thing to come apart. But I’m turning it back in. I should’ve known just how important it is to have an extensive emergency savings aside before going this route. Wasn’t fully prepared for this lifestyle… Not yet.
This type of system is pretty much setup to send us into debt with no quality possessions or no possessions at all.
I bought my new 2020 Winnebago Micro Minnie towable in September 2020. Fortunately, there were very few things wrong with it. All were minor items.
Couldn’t agree with this industry-wide assessment more ! We bought, what we thought was a ‘higher end’ towable unit from a California manufacturer and found some of the same shoddy work described in this discussion ! Persistent roof leak. In 3 times to diagnose and repair. (Finally located a cracked f lange in the skylight) Propane leak that the dealer said ‘pressure tested fine’ (Flare on the propane line was not completely formed. Did not seal so slowly leaked a 20# tank empty over 3 days!) Now… slide- will not slide out. Rt side hangs up and binds. Bought the ‘ Platinum Warranty’…. can’t get in for a month. Sorely disappointed in the quality !
Here’s a thought. When you buy an RV from a dealer, incorporate a “Liquidated Damages” clause into the purchase contract. Under the Liquidated Damages clause, the Dealer will be required to reimburse you $150 per day for every day your RV is at the dealer waiting for repairs to be completed, whether the dealer is waiting for parts or whatever. That will get the dealer’s attention at the time of sale, and if they are willing to sign the purchase contract with that clause in it, they most likely have faith in the quality of the build, and the builder. If they’re not willing to sign the purchase contract, walk away. In all likelihood, few if any dealers will be willing to sign such a contract, which will tell you a lot about their confidence in the quality of the RVs they sell. BTW, I chose the $150 per day figure based on the rental cost of a similar RV, so you would want to determine that fact up front.
RVs have been junk for years. Nothing new here.
I wish the Japanese would start building RVs in the US.
I brought a new motorhome before Covid but still had issues that were addressed under warranty. The only way to get manufactures attention is is if consumers demand a better product by not buying the poor quality Rv they are producing. There is no product assurance, nothing. Something has to give before someone suffers from a poor quality rig.
This is a very general statement but there are units out there that are still quality builds. We purchased a VanLeigh Vilano in March at B Young RV in Milwaukie OR. It was delivered in August and shipped to Mesa AZ. We are absolutely pleased with our 5th wheel and it’s quality built and user friendly interface.
We bought a new Forest River trailer in 2017. Worst piece of crap I ever owned. Dealer had it more than we did the first year. The floor rotted out this year, got rid of it.
I purchased my class C new in 2013. It has been a good unit.. In today’s climate, it will be my last unit.
The RV industry better take note and learn from Harley Davidson who almost closed its doors due to high production and extremely poor quality. Take a lesson.
I am on several forums and it is problem after problem with the build, no service, no recourse.
When you see on the forums, which unit should I purchase and the resounding answers is Used prior to 2018, well!!!
So my advice to the RV industry, stop building Crap, let quality dictate productivity. The first RV manufacturer to do this will be richer for it.
Preach it! Quality is crap and was so pre pandemic. We own a 2016 Jayco pop up. Had it parked in the side yard and the heat from the sun warped the ceiling and all of the trim on the ceiling. I find random screws on the floor that have popped out from various places. For the price these campers sell for, the quality should be much better.
had a A-Frame Jayco pop up that was JUNK! to make matters worse, Jayco’s C.S. SUCKED! thankfully the dealer was GREAT and bought it back at full purchase price if we bought another camper from them. we did, a KZ 17RBS that camper has been FLAWLESS from day one. 5 years later still FLAWLESS!
Amen. Just bought a brand new Kodiak Ultimate by Dutchman. It is a $57,000 piece of crap. I have had it. 3 months, and it has been in the shop over 30 days. It is back in there now
Bought a 2005 Beaver Monterey with 22k on it in March. Folks told me that Beaver made a QUALITY coach. Weren’t lying. Too bad Beaver isn’t around these days.
I ordered A raptor toy hauler 423. The dealer was terrible. I would never recommend buying a raptor to anybody we’ve had problems with it from the first day till now and we can’t get anybody to fix anything. We have a five year bumper to bumper warranty and everything thats want fixed isn’t under our warranty. And because we didn’t buy it from the dealer near us . They don’t want to work on it either. Castle RV out of Utah I definitely wouldn’t buy anything again from them or what I recommend them by any means. This is the biggest piece of shit I ever owned.The floor had a big rip in it when they put the slides out. The canopies had holes in them. The floor so Slanted,it that it makes the other part of the wall and floors,Look warped .Now the generators not working right. It turns off all the time and says over circuit something. The guy at Camping World in Idaho is trying to help us . But they’re so backed up,With warranty work and to order parts will take forever.
I got a 2020 Falcon and it turned out to be the biggest piece of crap made. Fenders fell off, water leaks, microwave down and toilet leaks. I’m sure there’s more just haven’t found it.
Extremely sad! Hope you went back to the dealership! After all lemon Laws should apply! Refund spent back including down payments. Go elsewhere! This should be a “happiness ” to enjoy the open road of freedom of memories!
It’s not just the poor quality and workmanship making the RV’s. But also the poor quality parts that companies are making and the RV manufactures are installing. They just don’t last since they are so chintzy. Things like A/C units and range hood are to noisy and detrimental to your hearing.
this isn’t new. when Thor & ForestRiver bought up the mom & pop operations, soon after quality faded
Jerry D you are so right! Once the smaller RV companies got bought up, the quality went downhill fast. The big companies are far more interested in profit than in the quality of their units.
Just now dealers are complaining about this ??? They should’ve started about 20 years ago! I’ve bought 3 RV’s in the last 20 years and they have all had stupid problems related to quality control. My last one was bought new in 2017 … luckily I’m a pretty good DIY’r and fix most of the silliness myself. Actually not only the QC sux, but the engineering does as well. I likely will never again buy a completed RV, rather I would buy a bare van type vehicle and do the inside myself. It would almost be easier that way.
Poor quality! The colors are so cheaply designed! So anti-American! They should (always) thought to make sure the glass windows (all) to be shatterproof! Weather shutters for protection while in route.
So to everybody who is joining and writing a lot of these comments I just want to say I appreciate it ahead of time for this one reason: I currently work in the RV industry in the parts department for one of the largest manufacturers here in northern Indiana. It’s no secret that a lot of these comments are expressing a lot of concern and disappointment with the quality of products that are coming out of this area.I fully understand and agree with a lot of the upset comments calling for better parts, build quality, and service. Unfortunately, due to a majority of our vendors being backlogged and having quality issues and not being able to receive products on time, it has put a massive amount of pressure on most of our staff and dealers to be able to fix all the problems you all are talking about. Does this justify your experiences? ABSOLUTELY not. However, most people here do care about our jobs and the products we create and we hope to improve as the pandemic gets more under control.
Additionally, I would also urge everybody to be very informed before you make any purchase of anything from any place. Quality can be an issue at times but many dealerships are also overwhelmed with orders and work. If you do wanna make a purchase please do a mountain of research before you go ahead and purchase anything. Our dealers do care but it is a very trying time and we would appreciate people trying to understand. It’s not an excuse, but it is the reality we are all living in, even if we also agree things should be better.
I too am an rv parts manager, i couldn’t agree more, it was already bad enough with new rvers having high expectations, breaking awnings etc due to negligence but this year quality control is almost non existent, and we’ve had to take on non typical repairs rather than sending a unit back to the manufacturer, in a record time. units that come in are sold with in days, we need weeks to get parts in to make a unit retail ready. its been a struggle, all while we are the face of the manufacturers who suffer with terrible reviews because of poor quality craftsmanship.
Sorry Austin but lack of parts is not an excuse . If your vendors send you parts that are out of spec you reject them and sent them back.
I work in the auto industry. We are dealing with part shortages worst than anything I’ve seen in my 28 years in the business but that doesn’t mean we just ship crap to our customers.
It would be better to have quality out the door and less units than sending out junk and not honoring the warranty. Your industry will go away people will get tired a paying big bucks for junk.
u can buy and rv but dealer don’t want to repair them my wife and I had a coleman and camping world say u bought it but we don’t work on them in mesa. same way with this silverlake east and west has issue and camping world don’t want to do the warranty work on it so I had to take it somewhere else to get warranty on it
I agree, poor quality is an issue! While I understand the demand to make product and get it out, quality is more important than quantity. People’s lives and property are at stake. I’ve seen cracked frames, exterior corners coming apart, not to mention all the little attention to detail stuff inside that is an issue. Either screws falling out, products failing or water issues from poor connections. These campers are not cheap and should have way better quality control.
5 years ago, I bought a 2003 class C motorhome with nearly 100k miles on it. The seller was a private party who had maintained and upgraded it well. I’ve continued to do little upgrades and good maintenance. I have peace of mind knowing what I’ve got rather than replacing it with an overpriced piece of junk.
We bought our first camper only to take it on a road trip and have it da*n near falling apart by the time we got it home. The walls were coming apart at the seams, the benches are falling apart, the screws on the outside falling out, countless other issues. I called two months ago and the soonest they can get us in for servicing is December! By then our dealer warranty will be expired! It’s completely ridiculous!
2021 Palomino HS2910 FLAWS
As soon as we got it the Slide out failed – a cut ground wire on slide motor! We fixed it because of a 3 month wait for service repair(s). Next, we go to put a wi-fi adapter in the antenna on the roof and the wiring was so tight and with zero slack we had to find the “bind” behind the microwave and loosen it up. Then, after inspecting the wiring into the main unit, the job can be described as second rate (haphazard – sliced power cords, etc..) Lastly, we go to install a generator tray – specific to Palomino units only !, and we find that the bumper was not installed correctly. Talk about design issues – in order to fix that first problem, the bad ground blew a set of fuses for the electric jacks and in order to replace them – get this : you need to remove the outdoor shower to access the “brain”. I must say the dealer did what they could and Palomino sent us a new Slide out motor but that does not diminish the aforementioned issues with a brand new unit.
Austin it is a sad day for the industry to use the lack of parts as an excuse for poor workmanship.
Hmm, is this 1970, time for Toyota to come in and take half the RV business as they did with auto industry? Got to say the cars sure got better fast.
Yep! Except I’m still waiting for the “not so” BIG 3 to catch up to Toyota, was ready to purchase a new Jeep Wrangler to haul my Bean teardrop, I have 3 buddies who are mechanics, ALL 3 said DON’T! Bought a new ‘20 Sienna AWD, all is fantastic! Tow capacity is only 3500, but drives like a dream, oh and the Bean is not for everybody, but it is for me…..
If you expect good Quality they need good QC personal and Good management personal.
RV manufacturers need to visit some state of the art manufacturing facilities. Yes, RV’s are a different animal, but there are processes & techniques that could be applied. We trained production personnel to be responsible for quality and they were measured on it. And yes we had QC people, just not in the classic inspect/reject of the past. And that was 20 years ago. Not a new concept.
I bought a new camper from Walt Michaels in Belleville Michigan years ago. I should have known that I was going to have trouble when they insisted I sign a piece of paper stating I would not go to the media with any problems I might have. I had around 15 issues with that camper. I took it back multiple times and when I got it back from them still had the same problems like they never even looked at it. Ended up fixing them myself. I should have sued them.
I just bought a 2021 Springdale1860ss by Keystone. I feel like the price was a bit high (25000 with hitch and other add ons included) but 4 months in this thing is doing it’s job. Guess we’ll see how well it stands the test of time.
Bought a Keystone Springdale in December 2018, I am happy with the purchase as well. We go 12-15 times a year. I know it’s their entry level but overall very happy. This was before pandemic and was on sale for $15k and there was 5 to choose from. Water pump was the only issue after a year which was an easy $75 replacement by myself. Staples/nails in walls do shake loose over time being on the road, easy maintenance hitting em back in. Overall, very happy, been the best investment for quality time with the family, highly recommend.
Purchased a Brand new (1st camper)”2021 Della terra 292mk ” in june . Only was able to do 4 Trips since purchased. Each Trip there was an issue, 1st 2 time’s the rubber seal around the slide out ( Driver side) came off while moving Flapping in the wind. 3rd time the rubber seal came off on the passenger slide out Flapping in the wind. 4th trip the metal siding( about 3 FT) detached from side of my trailer. The dealer doing the repairs has been waiting for the part( Siding) since the beginning of August & the Trailer is still there. Meanwhile my Family & I had to cancel all of our trips we had planned. To say I’m disappointed is an understatement.
I appreciate all the stories about the lousy RVs but can anybody tell us a story about a Quality RV I would like to know as I’m looking to purchase a used one probably a Class A. Thank you
Hi Ron. One suggestion I’d make is to do a “deep read” of Tony Barthel’s RV reviews right here on RVtravel.com. Tony isn’t beholding to any manufacturer, and also knows the sales side of the business because he was once “one of those guys.” Read enough Tony reviews, and you’ll start to get a picture of who is making what, and who is making it well.
2019 or older Newmar. We have had 3 RV’s. We bought a new class A 2009 Holiday Rambler, great rig, superior quality, but they are no longer in business. It ran great and we never had a problem. We got a call from the new owner of the Holiday Rambler and he told us he loved it too. We traded the Holiday Rambler and bought a new 2019 Class A Newmar Dutch Star. Good quality rig no problems with it either. But I would not buy a new RV now because the quality is so poor right now.
We have a 2018 heartland big horn bought used ,we travel for work couple minor repairs under 200$ for them absolutely love it real hard wood. No problems one was toilet seal and thermostat which was two screws
Monaco
Get a safari trek m24, isuzu diesel, if you can find one, we have ours since 2010, love it
nuCamp!!!
We have a 2012 Holiday Rambler Scepter. Quality is great. We have been told many of times to not get anything newer. We upgrade our coach occasionally but won’t ever buy anything newer.
It’s a shame National is not around anymore as they built quality coaches. We still have our 98Tropical and don’t think we will ever part with it. Other than normal servicing we have never had any problems and it is as solid as the day it left the factory.
Check out the sporttrek line from venture RV, they seem to put out a good looking unit.
Newmar Dutch Star (so far, knock on wood.) Owned mine since Nov 2020 and living in it fulltime. Only minor issues so far. Did factory pickup though, and they fixed everything we found in our 4 days inspecting the coach then.
Our ‘74 Airstream stored in Traverse City, MI-is still functioning. Have a ‘95 Airstream Integrity Fifth Wheel (only made them for 2 years) as a guest RV. No issues. We stay in our 2012 Alpine when in the park up there. No problems. Very afraid to ever replace our Alpine after reading article and comments!
We are totally dis satisfied with our rv. Buyers remorse. Camper shows promise alot and have trouble keeping their promises after the sale.
We bought a 2019 Keystone travel trailer. Thankfully the dealership bought it back after 3 months. Poor quality and no place would get it in for warranty work. We bought it brand new and will most likely never purchase another. It started to fall apart after just getting it to Texas. All downhill from there. I kinda miss meeting the friendly folks at the rv parks but surely don’t miss dealing with poor craftsmanship of a unit we were willing to spend our hard earned money for. Good luck if you take the plunge.
Dealers have poor service. My RV was in shop for 8 weeks to look at thermostat. I decided to just pick it up and fix it myself.
laughable. The dealers aren’t doing walk throughs. They’ll sell anything on the lot regardless of issues. They’re just passing the buck because they don’t want to pay more than $15hr for techs. I’ve talked to several people who got zero support from the dealer. First time buyers who get 15min of attention in exchange for $118,000 of financed RV.
Hey, we’ll finance that $118K for 240 months for ya lol.
People need to do walk throughs themselves even if it takes 10 hours before they give any money away. That’s their own fault.
this seems to be an industry with no standards or regulations. they can put any P-O-S on the street with no recourse.
I spent my first 9 years in Elkhart (’68– ’77) and my dad installed intercom systems. He’d talk about Coachman and Globemaster with a sense of pride. My wife and I had wanted a tow-behind for a few years and purchased a new 16′ Viking Saga (Forest River/Coachman) last May from an independent dealer in Westbrook Maine. Loved it until the furnace quit in October. The independent dealer was sold to Camping World, and in the spring I was told it would be September before the dealer could look at it. I didn’t call over the winter because I was furious that my brand new camper had failed mere months after purchase, and I wasn’t about to tow it almost an hour from my house if there was snow and ice on the roads to fit their schedule. The state of manufacturing in this country is pathetic; I work in manufacturing in a completely different sector but see the same issues on the production line. It’s beyond sad that consumers of American made products are being treated so disrespectfully.
We bought a 2020 model in 2019. Horrible quality and customer service at company and dealership was horrible. Leaks from shower stall, under sinks…I would like to provide names but I won’t
Also, RV prices are up 40% due to crazy demand. It must really sting to pay $60k for junk. I wonder if we’ll see lemon laws created in response?
On a related note, I have a Jayco from 2006 and it is built like garbage. Poor quality isn’t a new problem. American RVs are terrible. Prices used to reflect that fact. Tough to justify paying more than a nice car for a plywood box held together with staples.
Wife and I toured several models at Crestview in Georgetown on Friday. One new C class was so poorly built. The screws in the stairwell were all screwed in sideways. Functional yes. Cosmetic no.
Many other issues. And I know nothing about RVs but I do know craftsmanship. If a builder doesn’t do the obvious right, what about issues hidden out of sight.
Thank God for nuCamp!
Right on! But nuCamp has supply chain issues and that shows in some of there quality control. I own a t@ b 400 boondock .Plumbing leaks loose fittings and real crappy front foam for the cushions. We are happy campers for the most part.I am just glad I can fix things myself . Almost forgot my LIPPERT component step that lost 6 of the 8 bolts nut spacers washers. Never tightened from the plant, just bolted to the under floor. nu Camp warranty sent me new hardware pack. Not many mfg. do this.
I just purchased a Coleman Dutchmen, $46,000, I know don’t tell me, I haven’t even taken it anywhere, there are so many issues with the unit and the dealer is just plain nasty about anything you say, they put you on hold when you call they won’t even let the call go to voice mail, the person that answers the call is supposed to direct the call but asks what it’s about and it’s none of their business just direct me to the person I asked for. I just ripped the fridge and put in a galanz 10 cu ft, the thermostat went south got a new one and installed it myself, I could go on and on, the industry is in trouble, but what do we expect with all the illegal immigrants that work for a week and leave after being paid, California is a sanctuary state soooooo what else is to be expected, it’s not just the rv industry it’s so prevalent everywhere it’s amazing that anything is a quality purchase. Good luck
Your Dutchmen Coleman POS was built in CA?
The discussion makes sense, but I have been very pleased with the two trailers I’ve had from Crossroads Sunset Trail. The latest is a 285CK. EVERYTHING worked well from the start, and Rv Outlet in Longs, SC ordered what we wanted and stands behind it. My previous 26′ had a repeated DVD issue that they resolved.
Couldn’t be happier!
U are SOOOOO blessed to have such a great RV experience! Your South Carolina RV dealer sounds awesome 😊
I’ve had my TT for a couple of years now. Had some issues but my dealer fixed them. I learned that all newer campers will have some kind of issues so buy from a good dealer. Which means avoid Camping World like a plauge.
Bought a new epro 12rk a couple of years ago. After the first road trip with it, it needed 1000$ in structural repairs. All because of shoddy manufacturing.
My winnebago 5th wheel is a piece and has been from day 1
D
So why are the prices going up & up if the quality is going down & down? The dealers should just say NO, and refuse to accept a shoddy product. Yes, sales would drop. But only short term. In the long run, they would benefit from having happy customers. The answer is GREED.
Except the consumer keeps buying the garbage, especially during the last 18 months. No shortage of fools who ran out and bought an RV, a bicycle, and a kayak, who previously never towed anything larger than a log splitter and in most cases nothing. You can see them every Friday clipping curbs and road signs while pulling 30′ bunkhouses with overloaded half ton trucks. When they hit the interstate they do 85mph while the tail wags the dog and do not have enough smarts to know the trouble they’re in.
Because people are still buying them I guess they don’t know better. Some people order them sight unseen for some reason.
Bought a 2019 Genesis toy hauler. First time out the ATV that was tied down wore holes through the wear proof linoleum. Second time out the faucet broke off along the three vents that deteriorated and blew off while going down the road. All four tires wore down too the tread at 2 yrs and 1400 miles.
I purchase a 2021 Coachman Marada.
I drove it out of state. I mean everything went wrong on the bus. I do not like posting negative comments.
All I will say is the only that was good about my RV was the V8 engine. 7.3 liters.
I know I save about 50 or more screws that came out in the RV with no idea where they came from.
I had to hire a carpenter and a electrician to to come in and repair all the problems.
Even the trailer hitch broke on the RV while pulling a small empty trailer.
The weld came apart and dropped.
I must say the my RV is solid after we wood glued all of the cabinets and added screws to stabilize everything.
Even the fridge rattled very loud when we hit a bump.
The passenger mirror fell off.
Thank God we had some Allen tools to tighten the mirror down after we readjusted it.
Other than that it is a great ride and has good torque power.
We bought a new 2021 Forest River Cherokee Alpha Wolf 26RL-L (34’ travel trailer) and was shocked by the poor workmanship with the uneven trim, protruding nail and screw heads, unattached shade valences and open holes in the undercarriage. We sold it and bought a higher quality Winnebago brand.
My was same way
Same way
I had the same problem. All crap manufactured in the last 10 years it seems
The entire sidewall started pulling loose from the floor on our higher quality Winnebago brand, and the fresh water tank decided to exit itself out through the coroplast. No better than the Keystone trailer it replaced.
I’ve been working on RV’s, both professionally and on my own units since ’82. I worked in a plant, even had an RV manufacturing company. In the 80’s it was more personal. Quality was a priority. Now, they are so big, the priority is volume at all cost. Make numbers, fill orders. They know how to fix it but volumd trumps quality. Workers can be trained and retained if they could at least make quality number 2, but any hard quality program will slow production, threatening volume. Making quality part of the process will also build individual strengths into one team effort. Until they stop chasing volume and not quality, warranty and brand will suffer.
This is why I built a van. I shopped RVs but they are junk with a high price tag.
So true
Very interested – what kind of van,drive train etc. How long it take you?
Yup!!! Van with a THOW.
I bought a 2021 carbon toy hauler so many problems door cut too big has big gaps in it storage compartments same way don’t stay shut inside screws missing lights not working awning falling off bought it in march did not pick it up until may waiting for it to be fixed got it back wasn’t fixed right just poor work from the start the quality for this brand i thought was going to be outstanding but i was wrong i used it 3 times this summer have to take it back again to get fixed
There’s not a chance I’d buy a new RV. I’ll hang on and keep maintaining my 04 30ft. It’s built like a brick SH.
My friend bought a 2021 5th wheel, fridge stopped working, outside fridge died and on and on.
I’ll wait till they come to market from fed up people at a great bargin and rebuild the inside.
Well the dealers for the most part are not any better than the manufacturer, we own an Open Range actually doing are last night in it hopefully,,, we will be home tomorrow and then cleaning it up and selling it.. we are going to tent camp or get a van and do hotels and motels,, 1.no more costly repairs
2. no more insurance 3. no more payments but the loss of money from the depreciating value and the loss of the problems that it currently has it isn’t worth fixing to get the full book value. This has been a horrible experience we can’t wait until it behind us, it’s left us broken hearted there’s still so much we’d like to go see but the stressfulness of the next thing that’s going to need fixing is just too much to deal with.
RV dealers are no better than the RV manufacturers…
They do not deserve a pass…
Totally agree. Like why sell the products if you can’t stand behind it either…
what a disgrace..
People wonder why I still own my 98 National Tropical. The reason is todays rigs are total garbage and fall apart whereas my unit was built on a total steel frame with good solid furniture and fittings inside and is still as solid as the day it left the factory. It may be old but it is still in good shape and runs well and after all of these years we are only now looking at recovering the furniture and maybe in the not too distant future redoing the decals. If National were still around and building to the same standard then I would consider a new unit. Shame they went under since they built great quality units.
Since the 1980’s they have always been shit really now somebody noticed. For f sake
Formaldehyde should have been a clue
Poor new trailer dealerships blame the manufacturer.. Shut that down real quick. Why you selling them then? I am in the middle of a 1976 prowler renovation/ update. While taking things apart it really is night and day to my parents 2019 rme Jayco Baja. The difference in the quality for the time frame… prowler way better built. Although I am replacing the roof and gutted interior, it is still better rotten than the newer craftsmanship.
Sorry, but your story is bull. It is up to the dealer to service the units. Repair parts are available. Quality is as good if not better than the last 20 years. People in Indiana know how to build top units. Go ahead and try to get a workforce somewhere else that has no idea how to run electrical and plumbing through the floors and walls or even install infrastructure inside of a unit . Good luck. All it comes down to the lazy dealers that don’t want to service after a sale.
Allen, I think you’re full of shit when you call the dealers lazy. Indiana hasn’t built anything with quality for years now. The dealer should not have to tie up their service bays for months because new Rv’s and campers are built like crap. The dealers should have the right to refuse delivery of said crap! Send it back to Indiana or whatever plant these come from at their expense, maybe then QUALITY CONTROL will exist once again.
Dude.. Put the Pipe Down…
Bull! My husband works in the RV repair industry, and all of the new coaches they are getting are junk!
Then why was my friends unit in for fully covered warranty work for 9 MONTHS bc they couldn’t get parts then got incorrect parts and still couldn’t fix it properly.
We bought a 2018 Keystone Montana High Country 305RL in January 2021 from a private party after owning a 2005 32’ Class C motor home for 4 years. We purchased it for 7k under low blue book and knew it would probably need some work. So far we have had only minor repairs that I could do myself and have made some upgrades that we wanted (G rated tires, keyless door lock, new queen mattress, new faucets, etc.) If you can find a used unit (2019 or older) that has been taken care of, has a floor plan you can live with, asks lots of questions and try things before you buy, you’ll be less frustrated and enjoy camping more!
I own a 2004 3670rl I got in 2012 and it had a frig fire. it has been a good trailer after working on my Montana it is well built. when i got it I gave 3000 for it spent 6000 on it. I would stay with a keystone Montana. the next one I want a front living room
The rv camper world will never topple. However when people are buying these now it’s not a “once a summer grandma and grandpa took me out of town then kept it garaged the rest of the year” anymore. People are expecting a mini house on wheels and they should not manufacturer anything less than that.
We purchased a Fleetwood Fortis on May 25. Leaving the lot on our way home the check engine light comes on. We arrive home, put it in the shop, ten days later we get it back. We go on our first trip, after 300 miles, the light once again comes on, now it’s flashing. We park it at our destination for four days. I go to empty the black tank and nothing comes out. Upon investigating I discover the manufacturer left the plastic blank in the black tank.. No one would help,I ended up drilling a hole in the plastic. I found out when I turned it into the shop once again that 2 of the engine cylinders were misfiring, I also had to put steering stabilizers on. Also my main slide quit working the motor and controller had to be replaced In the 12 weeks of this summer our coach was in the shop 6 of them. We are regretting our purchase
I got a catalina legacy edition 2021 and it’s the worst rv. staples hanging out. my 3 years old cut her finger with one of them. the out side kitchen the sink leaking water from outside to inside. the ceiling of the main bed room is collapsing. I talk to coachmen and nothing the warranty they don’t know what to said gas leaking under the trailer water from The bathroom is leaking true the kitchen. one jack came off the trailer one day in the hiway. I can wait to get rid of this poor quality construction of catalina 323bhdsck I talk to Bob to make a report. I send pictures of the all the bad construction of it and still nothing
Our 2022 class C Minnie Winnie had very little support under the shower pan. Not a problem except the soft flexible waterlines to and from the waterheater and cold shower water supply all run directly under the shower pan instead of around the perimeter. Our first showers were hot or cold or no water at all, it depended on where we stood. Our local dealer fixed the problem within days.
FYI, General RV (dealer) is building a complex in Indiana for the vehicles they purchase. These RVs will undergo rigorous inspections, with the intention of correcting the issues on each vehicle prior to placing them on the lot, for sale. I’m not sure about the timing, but I’m glad someone is stepping into the fray
So a PDI? What a novel idea! It still won’t be done right; it never has been.
They supposedly almost all do this already.
General RV? LOL. Forest River has had a facility they tour on their websites and brochures as “20000 sq ft of quality assurance” for years. They infer that every unit produced runs through this place but in actuality only less that 1% of units do. Folks buy into that hype. General RV? LOL. What a load of scheisters they are, which I know first hand from attempting to buy from them. No different than Camping World or Campers Inn, RVW, or the Strollo brothers/RVone. At least find a small mom and pop type dealer if you can.
Hope the goal is to find where the issues are in production, fix the problems there and eventually shut down this facility. Build quality in. Don’t inspect it in.
What I have asked the manufacturers this year “does your quality control work from home” since this time last year I have had 2) 2021 units traded a fifth wheel placed with issues for a motor coach with issues, any one know of a class action law suit against manufacturer or a lawyer with the nads to open one.
My wife and I purchased a Tahoe Transport toyhauler in 2004. After a nightmare late-fall camping trip in the New Mexico mountains, where a carbon monoxide alarm forced us to open the doors and windows on a 20-degree night and cease using the furnace, I discovered the HVAC system was damaged allowing combustion exhaust into the return air grill. Rather than put my family’s lives in the hands of the same dealer and techs who released the new trailer to us, I fixed the problem myself. I never trusted the rig after that, and sold it as soon as possible.
I’m sorry to hear this happened, thank God you’re okay. Thank you for sharing, I’m literally having second thoughts about the whole idea..m
It sure is a very large problem! I will never buy another new RV! Maybe Warren Buffet has the answer? There needs to be federal consumer protection laws for RVs!
You do know that Warren owns Forest River, right?
I bought a 2020 KZ in Delaware, Ohio in June of 2020. I fought them for a year to get the title so I could get plates. They gave me one master key. They still haven’t gotten me the keys. I had to change the locks so I could have keys. Left message after message and they never returned a call. So far the camper has held up well, but I will never take it back for them to do any repairs. The dealers need to do a better job.
I,will happily keep my 2006 Arctic Fox built by Northwoods in Oregon, yes it has had a few issues but nothing of major concern, but now that my wife passed 3 years ago I’m considering putting it up for sale,I, did not purchase this new but it was as good as a new one it didn’t have many road miles as it was used for 3 years while the owner was working 4 hours from his home town ,my only wish was that it was designed for today’s TV’s in 05 they were still square but I still fit a new style just not as large as that would be better. Great aluminum tubular frame and wood block make for a great build. Just now day’s it’s becoming to difficult to get reservations in the parks I,like and is also becoming to hard on my banged up body to have to do everything myself. And yes I, have heard so many stories of the new models and all of the problems right from the get go, and I, just laugh at the constant 52 weeks/ year of RV Super shows, these new units are constantly on the move across PHX .
Grand Design
Just bought a 2021 Grand Design Transend Explor 231RK. I did so much research & everything led to them being top quality.
If this is what top qualify looks like I can see why everyone’s mad. There’s ZERO consideration for maintenance when they are built. Every older RV I’ve seen had compartments & ways to get behind stuff to fix etc. Now you can’t get to anything. I have had 3 different plumbing leaks, in 3 trips, all were because they put together the plumbing while everything is open, just framing so every pipe is cut to the exact millimeter of how long it needs to be AND NO LONGER. So when you start bumping down the road every little twist, hop or whatever pulls on the plumbing connectors so with no strain relief they start leaking immediately. Can’t fix yourself because there is no slack in the lines & no way to get to lines. Called 6 repair facilities in the area. Earliest appt available 3 months out. 4 were 6 months out. So yeah, industry is putting out crap!
Grand Design is not so grand. Total garbage.
In response to the 200 + comments in this newsletter the same thing was being said about RV quality 10 years ago. Don’t buy anything built after 2009 – it’s junk. Our new 2012 Class A gas rig caused us so much heart ache we traded it (dumped it) with 27k miles for a $80k hit in late 2017. To many major slide problems and $500 repairs on other problems came to often. It doesn’t make any difference if you spend 30K or 2 mil. on your rig there’s always going to be problems. Newbie’s had better realize they are going to spend $1,500 + or more a year on maintenance and replacements of components if they are lucky. It’s not just the RV industry, we purchased 3 name brand dishwashers from 1996 to 2004, an 8 year period in a new home. Way back then it was cheaper to replace it than have a repairman fix it. Wake up people this is a throw away world we live in – including your RV.
I had been thinking about getting a small Class B or C and did some research online… then in 2018, I decided it would be better to purchase an extended length, high top RAM Promaster. I had it built out and it’s not bad. Very nice inside and out. A fraction of the price.
This is nothing new folks. These things have been junk going back years however they’ve outdone themselves recently. The biggest issue is a company called lippert components who have cornered the market on everything from frames to furniture in an RV. They supply most all manufacturers with components, all of which is low grade garbage made as cheaply as possible. Frames, awnings, Jack’s, appliances, furniture, and everything else comes from LCI. Add to that the stuff is then slapped together by Amish pieceworkers or tweakers at light speed and shoved out the factory door without a second glance at anything. Enjoy.
Sounds like a Thor product.
Yep, and Thor is buying up the competition.
We ordered a 2016 Rockwood Travel Trailer in 2015. When it arrived at the dealer, during the pdi, we found over 30 defects and not small ones, one that stands out was both slide openings were not even close to being square. We refused to purchase it as the solution was to take it then return it for service with an open ended schedule, the dealer or Rockwood would not commit to any timeframes. We had to get an attorney involved to get our $1500 returnable deposit returned.
Manufacturers could spend millions updating manufacturing facilities. Most campers are still built by unskilled labor in sheds. They know though, that demand will drop off, as the market becomes saturated. Until that point they’re willing to accept the profits and build crap. It really sticks in my craw how the writer tries very hard to paint manufacturers as victims.
It’s not just the way they’re built, and not just because of covid, with few exceptions (Airstream), travel trailers have always been designed and engineered by ******* who just want to spit them out as fast and cheaply as possible. There’s nothing new about this
Every Rv has issues/problems they’re built as quickly and inexpensively as possible. Every time you take your Rv out it’s like your home experiencing an earthquake that lasts for hours not seconds or worst case minutes. Remind yourselves why you bought an Rv which should be to make memories, experiences, and enjoy time with friends/family/loved ones! The ability to visit the national parks, beaches, monuments you have not yet been able to. They’re not perfect by any means but what else allows you and your family the freedom see our great country in the comfort of your own space instead sleeping in hotels you have to wonder when the sheets were washed last? You own a second home most likely more then that your doing alright things could be worse
Earthquakes, that explains the hot and cold water lines mixed up at the taps on my last two Jayco’s. And the furnace that only ignites if the ducts are removed.
exactly…
One can get allot of good quality lodging for $75000 or more. I gave up a $1000 deposit when I realized that all I was going to get was absolute junk. I feel I made out great as I avoided burning up allot of cash. I do have good memories of my past two Winnebago’s, 20 years ago and the quality wasn’t that great back then. My advice for first time buyers is purchase a trailer to haul equipment& tools to make repairs. Good luck
LOL! Earthquakes…you forgot hurricanes. That’s what the sales people at Camping World are taught to tell their customers ( a Lemonis special btw), so customers can just expect to have problems!
Hey guys, I bought a used 2020 Airstream trailer. Somehow, Quality control inspectors missed a cabinet not attached to the wall. DFW Service will take care of it at my appointment. What I learned with my Aliner, is there are no blue prints or assembly drawings for the assembly crews. The parts can not interchange. Quality goes down as Quantity goes up.
Have owned 3 RVs all of them early 2000s. For the most part they were ok, one had a reefer failure and one had a slide leak.
I wouldn’t buy any RV right now, first they are way overpriced and built as fast as some nitwit can drive screws into walls.
Your paying top dollar for low quality crap, RVs are inherently prone to failures, many parts from many manufacturers each with their own warranty. Then your at the mercy of more nitwits at the dealerships, it was bad when we had ours can’t imagine how it is now. The bigger RV companies had tried to build RV repair centers as the dealers have no clue, not sure how that turned out. We were going to buy a RV to explore NC in search of property, after visiting a few dealers, we decided thanks but no thanks.
Hotels are cheaper, no water shortages, long hot showers, no monthly payment, no extreme aggravation.
But, if you have the stamina, fortitude, and some mechanical knowledge owning a RV can be a adventure, just prepare yourself.
I looked at a brand new rv and well…..it was shabby at best asking $95k! We’re spending lots of money for poor American quality. Sounds like America to me. “YES ..I SAID IT!!”
I’d rather hold on to my money until the quality issue is resolved. And we all should be doing the same. How else are the manufacturers gonna learn that we do care about quality and not just want to foolishly spend our money because we want what we want…..NOW.
You’d think the Asian invasion with autos in the 60s and 70s that stirred the US big 3 would be enough to remind them.
Hi, “elam”. I took your email address out of your comment so it’s not out there for the whole world to see and possibly start sending you spam. Have a great day. 🙂 –Diane
It is still there!
Thanks, mss. Actually I removed half of it, so if anyone uses what’s there it won’t go anywhere. But thank you for letting me know, in case I had accidentally left the whole thing in there. (I guess I could have removed the whole thing, but I wasn’t sure why they listed it in the first place.) Have a good night. 🙂 –Diane
elamr, I certainly am waiting. I’ve had many RVs since 1997, depending on my growing family. In the end it’s quality of craftsmanship that makes travel smooth or anxiety ridden. I’m old enough to have patience as you suggested.
Bought my Forest River 303F Class A new Aug. 27, 1998 and it has performed marvelously and still looks great inside and outside. No intention of letting this baby go anytime soon. The employees who put my rig together obviously knew what they were doing. Thanks guys!!!
That was then those is now congrats .
things were very different 23 years ago, nice brag tho…
I have a daughter that works in an RV plant office then has to fill in on the inspection line. There are alot of things they force her to pass. Things she knows that are wrong. The dealers are clambering for units so they push them out. The work is shoddy because the more they can push out they more they make, money wise. I have quite a few family members that work in this industry and they are all working over time.
That is sad, do these folks realize that unsuspecting people are buying and paying lots of money for this crap.
To sell something that’s faulty speaks volumes for this industry,
PS
Lots of patience, way more than I have.
Let me point out, tied is a rolling home, many have the same or similar systems. Cooling, heating, water with pumps, refrigerator/s, TVs, septic with maserator in some cases, lots of plumbing and electrical.
Been in the home building biz, homes are built to codes and inspected in the communities they are built in, the RV manufacturer builds and inspects, perhaps it has some government requirements for transportation, tires, weight limits, hitch limits etc, class As, hitch campers bumper/5th wheel, are builder manufacturered, Class Bs on Chassis like Ford at least the running gear has government mandates. Consider your options and for sure look it over very very well, doesn’t matter if it’s considered top shelf or not.
Or just pass until the industry decided quality over quantity!!
Super helpful article. Glad you published it. Thank you.
Dealer: it’s a parts problem!
(Won’t yank the worst offenders)
Factory: can’t keep workers!
(Won’t pay living wage)
Workers: no training!
(Won’t take initiative)
Parts: Crickets
lol “wont pay a living wage”
*sees lineworkers bringing home $2k a week*
Lol exactly
There’s people making 200,000 on those floors. It’s actually a joke in our community on how much higher the wages are in the RV industry than anywhere else. That’s why nobody leaves here. Moneys so good!
It’s a monopoly. It’s a small community and everyone’s friends with everyone. All the suppliers are right in town keeping costs low and exertions uses the same suppliers for everything. No brands are different they are all the same workers jumping from place to place and using the same materials.
The RV floorplan is great, comfort is great, and towing the trailer is also no issue. My issue is service after the sale!!! When Forest River (FR) says it stands behind their product, they actually mean they stand behind you as you’re driving off waving good bye and good luck. We purchased our 2021 in April. On our first trip in May the rear emergency window blew out while driving down the road. The trailer had traveled less than 200 miles. I contacted my dealer at Windstar Thackerville and they filed a warranty repair request with FR. After numerous back and forth e-mails, suppling pictures of pulled screws, bent handles in the window frame, FR graciously supplied a new window and shade. “ we can send you a window and latch in goodwill, however we will not cover installation as we do not know for sure if this was manufacturer error or not” (Grace N customer service rep). If FR truly stood behind their products and sent a replacement window and shade “in goodwill” they would also cov
I know we are disgruntled about the lack of quality. We have a Grand Design Reflection and got it because it supposedly had great quality.
The windows were put in crooked, the strips of interior trim are popping off, missing exterior screws, the AC unit almost caught fire due to wires not fully inserted and were arcing, the awning was installed crooked so it doesn’t close right, the interior lights in the slide don’t work, they missed an area on the roof with sealant and they don’t take the quick second to cut off the excess wire inside that is stowed behind the fuse box. So instead you get enough wire to wire another RV that looks like a rats nest…. then they want you to wait for months to get things fixed. Unacceptable quality and lack of attention to detail.
We bought a new RV right off the dealer floor never been used it was a awful it had a leak that and covered our floor about an inch and water the front drain was never hooked up so it backed up. The paneling and molding was peeling off fell off three times while we were driving the awning Stopped working after the second year we had it and we only used it maybe three times it’s gone we sold it we spent more time in the dealer the first year getting repairs then we were able to use it luckily a lot of it was under warranty but that’s ridiculous to buy a new 32 ft Trailer and never be able to use it because it’s always in the shop getting repaired
It was a cougar made in Oregon
I’m sorry for you Kim, we had a Cougar made in Oregon and it was THE WORST purchase ever made.
O*MG, we bought a Montana 5th wheel, had it for 1-1/2 years & you name it, it’s happened! Molding falling off, bathing door keeps falling off, fake leather couch falling apart & breaking, we’re on our 3rd toilet, 2nd microwave, 3rd frig. I could write a book of things going wrong. This article is right on the money…no quality control. Biggest piece of you know what we’ve ever had!
Purchased a new Forest River Rockwood Roo and it is fantastic! You want to know why? The Rockwood Roos are made by Amish working in the factory. The Amish do good work wether it be making a quilt, a barn, or a Roo.
The Hispanics would be my next choice for hard and skilled work. The younger WOKE crowd need to go back to sleep, maybe when they wake up again their brains will function correctly.
Thank you Rockwood. ( this is my 2nd Roo, last one was a 2004)
Amish working in RV factories is not new. It’s been going on for decades across nearly all the manufacturers. Maybe you just go lucky.
Maybe the manufacturers need to realize that paying crap wages results in crap work. It’s hard to raise a family on what most companies feel is a living wage, and your skilled workers are going to leave and navigate to the positions that have the better carrot at the end of the stick. High turnover usually means awful working conditions, unattainable demands, bad management, and a atmosphere that wants quantity over quality. So when the younger generations know their worth and refuse to work in such conditions for what they are being offered, I say good on them.
Just no. Not good for them. Their worth? They bring no value to this industry. They want their hand held while demanding the same amount of money for the person running circles around them. They walk in the door with this attitude. If you aren’t going to pay them rate on day two for knowing 1/8 of their job they will leave because hey they are worthy right? Long days could be cut shorter if people could stay off their phones, or I don’t know wait til break to eat! Seriously saw an online worker with a full size burrito in hand trying to work. Nasty. Seriously someone was putting stuff away in my department and left their cheeto prints everywhere. But if you say anything your disrespectful and have a tone. Let’s see how long being coddled lasts. This industry won’t survive and you can thank those worthy youngsters for standing up to the big meanies.
Why are so many people obsessed with “wokeness” that they have to work it into every conversation. I suspect you don’t even fully understand what woke is. Also, why do you care what other people value or find important? Why can’t you just worry about your own life and let other people be?
As a service tech owner for 30 year’s, I agree. The manufacturers will also steal good technology from anyone who brings it to them. Now the appliances are junkie too, that’s a double hit on the consumers. Great for RV technicians though.
Interesting how quickly the manufacturer passes the blame on to the employees. It is the manufacturer who hires the employees. It is the manufacturer that supplies the employees with shoddy building materials.
And they are responsible for training their employees
Amen to that!!!
After owning 3 other units since 1998, we purchased a new Jayco in 2016. After a few short trips decided to go to dealer for inspection prior to multi week, long trip. Axle failure left the front,right wheel outrunning us. Dealer replaced it under warranty and have had no problems until recent failure of Lippert stabilizers. Started to purchase a Grand Design, but no one at the dealership seemed to want to help us. We love our unit and our dealer.
We bought a forest river trail brand new in January 2021. Had absolutely nothing but problems with it. Every time we took it camping, we would have to take it to the dealer to get more things fixed. Everything from wires hooked up wrong to hose lines kinked from the factory. Every time we’d get it back from the dealer, there would be new things wrong. It was a nightmare. We sold it 6 months after we bought it. We asked them to give us the extended warranty for free for the trouble. But they refused. So, it had to go.
i remember the days (in the 60’s )when purchasing an auto (car) was a crazy. The quality of the US car was so bad (misaligned doors, leaky windshields, etc.) that many people started buyiing foriegn built cars like Toyota and Honda, etc. Eventually the US will see better built RV’s being sold in the US made by non-US companies. Only then will the quality of US made RV’s get better just like it did for the U S auto industry
I hope it happens sooner rather than later!
@dan, we will not get many imported RV especially Class B’s where in Europe they have had small ones for longer as in many areas streets are narrower than ours and are more innovative and creative than the B’s we have here as most people in the U.S. like BIG, due to the “chicken tax”. Many years ago, we started importing chickens to the US, upset in Europe they imposed a chicken tax and in retaliation we imposed a tariff on vehicles many that were the chassis on which many RV’s were built, here’s a link to the story https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax.
hi dan. i remember those days also. the US auto industry was asleep with their trapped audience forking over dollars to keep them in profits. then the europeans and Japanese started importing their vehicles — which were pretty poor at first — but they quickly adapted with better products and this shook the US industry to its core and they also had to start producing a better product. i just don’t know what will happen to the RV industry
Quoting the dealer who said: “They just don’t have the expertise to complete a motorhome in Northern Indiana anymore. Their labor force has no eye for quality and they have no way of teaching it. The industry is ripe for someone else to step in and start producing quality products, but it will likely have to be someplace other than Indiana.
The problems manufacturers are facing is just that – they have no way or desire to train their workforce. The part about not finding competent people to do this work has no bearing on location. You tell me where you could go set up manufacturing anything and get people who don’t need to be trained, don’t need incentives for good work, feel valued, want to contribute – you can’t.
Too bad the Japanese cant come over and kick their butts – just look up the success they had in 89 when they came to Flat Rock Michigan and trained people from all walks of life using a principle called Kaizen – look it up.
Us Latinos WILL get er done!! Many owners are bigoted, and wont hire us.
I have a 2010 Carriage Cameo and yes it is beautiful. Think i will stick with it.
I bought a model 1685 Lance Trailer new in 2011. The repairs have been nominal. I was well aware of Lance’s long history of putting out truck campers.
They know how to make a small space comfortable with all the wanted amenities. The layout in the trailer has been comfortable for both my wife and I.
The only problem we had was a crack in the gray tank that was fixed without replacing. I will say it pays to buy a established good quality RV. The prices have skyrocketed over the past decade. And it is not easy to get an appointment for repairs in some areas.
We purchased a 30ft 2021 Spirit BH, from production. Was a month late on delivery. Received July 2nd. Wow, they should’ve kept it and did it right! We have had over 30 issues, and some which are still not fixed! Been in the shop more than it’s been out camping! I thought it was Coachmen, which had a long line of good RV’S,
well turns out it’s Forest River, and is taking it’s time approving repairs which is rediculous! Absolutely no quality control, and the poor repair shops at the dealership gets the brunt of it! If someone is spending this money, they should get what they Bought! There is no lemon law protections, and I am forced to buy extended warranty just to be sure we wIll have a few years out of it! DO BETTER!
Wow, the government needs to change the laws, regarding purchase of these. False marketing!! People start suing!!!
A Good Customer of mine , bought a “Top of the Line” 5th Wheel, Longest allowed 5 Slides extended areas and it is Absolutely Beautiful, 150K with Custom Paint , they went on a Trip for 9 weeks out West and had The Most problems They have ever Had, including sewer Vent not hooked up, gases going into unit from Black Water Tank, went through 4 Tires on the 5000 mile Trip due to the Camber of one Axle being Rediculously off, Electrical issues Etc. ETC. Just backing up all of the comments here without naming Names, I will let him Do That if he wants.
More and more issues like this and Astronomical Prices and Price Increases due to Availability are the Norm, we all know the Major Blame starts at the Top, paying people to stay home as much as they were making or more while on the Job, the Top also has no Respect from the Countries that Supply us parts and yhey are basically controlling our Big Industries with Their Production Quantities and Quality, Don’t look for Improvement to happen in the Near Future Either.
This is happening in Far More big Dollar industries than the RV Manufactured home industry and spreading 😢
We bought a used 2014 16ft Toy Hauler this spring. We knew it needed some work but after we got it home we realized it needed major work. We had to gut the whole thing. Once the walls were open we saw how absolutely horrendous the workmanship was. It was built for failure. All of the exterior corners had leaked causing extensive damage, rotted wood and mold. When we removed them we found that they did not seal it properly and they literally drilled at least 30 extra holes into each corner trying to get the corner attached, the corner pieces were also bent on the roof which allowed more water damage. The exhaust vents were not caulked and they leaked too. The emergency window looks like it was damaged before installation but they installed it anyhow. The worst was the OPEN to the outdoors 12″×12″ hole they put in the bathroom for a 3″ pipe. 9 mouse nests in there. 5 months work and over 2000 spent due to lack of quality control. These were just a few of the dozens of problems we found
Yes lack of quality control….management issues. Good managers are actually people engaged.
Bad managers are just corporate goons who brown nose to upper management. Tossing numbers and production for assets.
These companies are just setting themselves up for, better competition!!😃
It is astounding. I have dreamed about owning a travel trailer for 30yrs. It was a rude awakening to see how terrible the quality is. I cried many many times while putting it back together. It is just a Pandora’s box once you start gutting them. Finally got to camp in it last week and I was filled with dread and anxiety while towing it and when it rained. Its been a terrible experience so far. But on the plus side, it has been almost completely rebuilt and the ladies would love the interior, it is Pinterest worthy, so if we decide to sell we should break even.
Just sold my toy hauler for just about what I paid for it 3 years ago. It’s a seller’s market right now.
On the other hand I do not plan on buying a new rig until workmanship and material start improving. The trash that they are selling people people right now is atrocious.
Is about time cuz we bought a east to west and it looks like a piece of crap and paid $40,000 for it and it looks like somebody went in and plastered all freaking hoes all through it and the screws are all rusted and it has leaks so what are you supposed to do with elderly couple living in it so you know they don’t care long as they get their money they don’t care
RVTravel hit the nail on the head with this one (not surprising), as most of the comments indicate too. When the dealers start trash talking their product privately, it says a lot about what is going on in the industry. I’ve been in the RV Lemon Law business as an attorney representing consumers since 1985 and what I have seen bears out the truth of what this article says is going on. In the last year or two there was an article I saw quoting the President of one of the big factories where he was talking about the then-existing production slow down and how they were going to take a look at improving quality. That talking about it didn’t last long.
So Ronald,
Why can’t we hold these dealers/manufacturers liable for this shotty crap they are selling?
Is there not a way to go after them ?????
You hold them liable by NOT purchasing the product. That’s the function of the market.
Amish drug addicts? Are you stupid or what?
You think everyone in northern Indiana is Amish?? Where do you live??
So I’m going to the Hershey show but will be spectating only. All these horror stories here and all over social have convinced me to stay with the devil I know for now. My 2005 Keystone has problems but I manage.
Funny, my grandparents had a 1973 El Dorado Class C. I loved that thing as a little kid. But my pap dumped it in ’83 for a pop up and never looked back. It always had problems! Some things never change.
I totally under this article as I own a 120k Cheaply made Class C. My upholstery is dissolved and I took it to an upholsterer and was told several manufacturers bought cheap and it turns out bad vinyl that only let 5 yrs well we own a 2016 Thor Motorcoach with only 5k miles and it’s been in the shop more than out with e same problems ex. Outside refrigerator replaced 3 times, transfer switch from generator to electric 3 times, back up camera 3 times etc. we are at a loss of what to do we feel we can’t rent it either we try the seats looking so bad!!!
Sorry for typos
We have purchased many new rv’s over the years and there has always been something wrong with them. The manufacturers have never built them to last. Very unfortunate that this is done to consumers. At least car companies have vehicle recalls.
The last paragraph proves what is the single focus of RV manufacturers: just crank them out and rake in the money. They care about nothing else. Frankly, I hope this leads to a major cleanup of this industry, which in my opinion, has become bankrupt in its values and ethics, and is one of the worst examples of American capitalism.
Weight constraints aside, I was very disappointed in both construction AND function.
What did they call it in the ’60s in cars, “designed obsolescence”?
The answer everyone avoids is…..many named manufacturing 90% owned by one entity….the Old guy Billionaire ! Put his name up there and THINGS WILL CHANGE !
There is a Voldamort in the RV industry?
I bought my very first travel trailer in April, ordered it in December. Inside and out is garbage quality of putting it together.
Hot and cold are reversed in the shower, nothing is square, leaked the day I got it, door misaligned and can pop open even when locked. Numerous cuts in the floor thru the build process where they sliced the laminate flooring. Valances falling off the walls, blinds stopped rolling back up, 1 was missing all together.
I don’t know if this is a Forest River/Salem issue or are they all put together like crap?
It’s sad to say but they’re all built like crap. The rv industry is and has been going down hill and I truly don’t see any recovery any time soon. I’ve seen first hand how they’re built and the crap they just say let it go we have another one coming up the line.
WOW!! Sure Reads that Consumers are really ticked in paying Huge Money for Junk!!
& the Junk is being Sold by Dealers who being Less Than Honest with Consumers.
Unless The Dealers PUSH BACK at the MFR’S; ain’t not much Positive going to HAPPEN!!
Maybe the RV CEO’s & RV Industry Executive need to read these Post’s. Dealer’s should be clipping & sending to the RV MFR”S they represent.
True Story; as an RV Dealer states it is the “Worst Stuff seen in 20 years”.etc; etc; Yes; Dealrer you do have recourse by refusing to accept & sell Junk to unsuspecting Consumers.
Get Real; Look in the Mirror & Stand Up!!
.
I bought a 2017 fifth wheel before any of these problems started and I tell you I have had plenty of problems with the one I have now in service after the sale has always been a major problem
I have a long post and hope it all gets printed. We as consumers are much to blame, we want to buy cheap and in order to fulfill that manufacturers cut corners (similar to the lament people have about flying airlines, told a FA wish we had hot meals and she said people want cheaper flights instead) but if you want quality you can get it but you have to pay for it. I was looking at sites that sell mostly conversion vans, and I at first thinking they would be cheaper but they were not and seeing many starting from 90K to $225K, I just started reading them wondering what could you get, many had only one bed and only outdoor shower-though the ones in 200K did have an enclosed bath. Most of the builds went into incredibly minute details about their technical aspects such as all the components, they used, electrical systems, and I was wondering why maybe I thought because they don’t have the bells and whistles of TV, some appliances, AC but then I understood, many of these van (TBC)
are very proud of their work and they want to show how they justify their high prices with the quality of their parts and work. Unfortunately for me, most are not into indoor showers but you feel you will not have broken down vehicles, and also unfortunately it’s usually only on Class B’s. If you want to a commercial vs. converted buy a well known and respected brand that is a few years old, I wanted to buy a Hymer Aktiv, but the ones or sale were Hymer Aktiv which were made when it went bankrupt so was warned they may have cut corners, was going to buy the Roadtrek which as a VERY good warranty but was warned about them as they are now owned by Thor. Secondly, there is a business in Alabama, VanLife owned by Brian who started his dealership due to the complaints he heard from others who had problems and his experience with own RV. He does a 30 pt check that takes, 3 days and 30 hours, it’s one of the most thorough inspections you will ever see and go there if you live (TBC).
near by. He even lets you drive it and keep it overnight so if there is any quirks you can talk to him about it. This is a good thing I was told by a man who owns a business renting out people’s RVs that he doesn’t want a brand new one but one driven by owner who can tell him of any quirks. Too bad Brian can’t franchise HIS dealership, there would be a lot less bad experiences for people. I wish that he didn’t so far and in the south, (not necessarily for political reasons, but those reasons are why the Covid numbers are high) because if there is ANY dealer I would buy from it’s him. I am sending him the link to this article and telling him instead of selling this new “crap” he should get some well made and used older brands, renovate any quirks and sell them and sell private well made builds for others.
It’s just vanlife NOT vanlife.com
Rapido and not Thor bought Roadtrek and it’s van.life.
Most consumers are lazy wanting instant satisfaction with little work and planning.
It’s how much? I don’t care about the price, how much is the payment per month?
What about this is news? I’ve repaired and dismantled countless 70’s-2000’s era RVs of various shapes and sizes and the thing they all had in common was they were obviously garbage when they left the factory. The RV industry is sheisters selling expensive garbage to lazy, gullible people. Nothing new there except now every RV carries an obnoxious UTV and a stack of flags to hang all over everything.
We compared our 1999 5th wheel to some new model’s and was shocked at the lack of quality and price to boot. Buy an older model and get quality. Our 1999 is like new, one owner and wouldn’t buy a new one for $$$$$$$
If you want quality these days there is only one brand to buy and that is airstream. We just sold our 1976 stream and purchased a 2021 . Same great quality. Anything else is just a waste of money. Why buy something that may last 6 years if you are lucky. Rubber roofs are going to start leaking after a few thousand miles. Our airstream was 46 years old and it never leaked.
Not everybody can pay 85K for a 21 foot ……….
You get what you pay for.
Unfortunately, that is no longer the case now which is much of the basis for this discussion…
Also, remember Airstream is now owned by Thor! Sorry.
Funny, I have been reading a lot about Airstream walls building condensation over time and rotting the lower walls and floors. $4200 a foot and better not get in a hail storm.
Pathetic is right. Our Keystone Cougar RKS 2019 is falling apart. Furnace went out first winter. Frig leaks. Shower sky light leaks.
My wife and I bought a 2018 Keystone Cougar. Heater went out as well before one year. Drain to the fridge was left inside so the floor went soft. I’ll never buy a Cougar or anything from Keystone. They won’t cover any of it. Neither will the extended warranty provider.
Ha the extended warranty. I told them to shove it. You would have paid over 10k over the term. Most of the problems are not covered or too small to bring in and wait.
I wish I can post pictures here. My brand new Jayco is exactly that. Screw falling, panels popping, trim dropping. Wiring is a mess. The microwave almost fell off the shelf when it arrived. I had done many fixes and upgrade myself and that’s only two weeks old.
Guess we’ll keep our 1996 Roadtrek! It’s had only a few issues since we bought it in 1999.
I took a two year break from working in the rv industry.at time just tired of politics rather then running a good da*n product with the right ones to run it.
With over 20 years exp. From being the little man to the main man.
Now that I’m back just wanting to a helpful source but without the stress I’m just blown away on the junk that is being made and the company just wanting units rather then quality or just the correct way of running a damn rate production line with the right kind of workers in ethics and formula to produce good unit and respectable prideful workforce. Sad days of rvs.
The first trip on my 2017 Minnie Winnie almost burnt the trailer down with me in it due to the improper connection of the shore power connection during construction. Luckily, I was able to prevent a disaster and fix it, but not before there was some noticeable scarring from the arcing. Within a month, I also had the fiberglass skin separate at the front and the rear—that’s just the build quality. One small drop of water on the bathroom door frame and *poof* it swells so much you can’t close the door. I’ve also had to replace two windows due to the closing mechanism malfunctioning, despite the windows being closed properly. They were just poorly designed and too weak to hold the windows closed at highway travel. It’s just poor design and materials. Why?
I’m being shocked when I touch my stabilizers. Could you elaborate more on how you fixed it?
Do a web search for “hot skin”. Could be caused by different issues one of which is the wiring at the site power pedestal, but most likely some mistake made by an Indiana tweaker on the assembly line or a wire pinched between frame and floor during construction.
@ Alex Murdock, “improper connection of the shore power connection during construction”
We had the exact same issue on a Rockwood Travel Trailer. The cord and trailer mounted receptacle were cheap junk made by Furrion. The manufacturer did not tighten the connections, they arced almost causing a fire. Interestingly every wire at the lugs inside the AC side of the converter were over tightened. These all snapped off in the first year and could not be re tightened without a lot of hassle as the lugs were all stripped. That little silver sticker by the door that says Electrical*Plumbing*Heating*Fire Safety – Manufacturer certifies compliance with standard for recreational vehicles NFPA 1192 is perhaps the biggest joke in the RV Industry.
What’s with your constant harpig about Indiana workers?? Now they are Tweakers? You don’t know what happened but you’re blaming the worker AGAIN! Most of this stuff comes from China, Furrion is Chinese.You could put it together like a swiss watch but it’s only as good as the parts in it!
Your windows were made by Lippert Components (LCI). Those weak closing mechanisms are nothing new. It’s a known issue and has been going back at least 10 years.
In a few words, I built my own and I get comments on how ‘solid’ it is. Latest in solar/technology. Granted it took two months to complete it, but based on dealer prices it was well worth it. Happy travels.
The RV industry has been cranking out junk for years, and it’s getting worse and worse. What is sad is the consumer is at the mercy of the dealer because the manufacturer many times doesn’t want to stand behind their pathetic junk. Tail light guarantee. We’ve had several rv’s over the years and each one has more problems than the older one. Shame on us to keep on buying and I certainly would not buy a new one now with the work force the way it is now.
If a foreign manufacturer such as Honda or Toyota would start making RV’S, I seriously would consider purchasing one over an American RV manufacturer. I hate to say this but that’s where we the consumers are with no faith in the American RV industry. It’s a shame there are no lemon laws that can be pursued pertaining to RV’s. Are Rv manufacturers exempt from lemon laws in Indiana? Is that why they are all located there. Is that why they turn out pathetic junk because the industry is protected in Indiana?
“If a foreign manufacturer such as Honda or Toyota would start making RV’S”
Even if they were making and selling 1 million per year, which they’re not and never will, thats too small a number for anyone to get interested in. The RV Industry uses the PT Barnum philosophy of marketing. No shortage of suckers now days since the Covid RV boom started. In two years the market will be flooded with loads of slightly used RV’s dumped by suckers who are massively upside doiwn on the financing. Too bad they will all be garbage not only from the original build, but a couple years worth of lack of maintenance.
We bought the nicest coach our family has ever had this year. It is completely horrible. 3/4 of the 40’ roof is shot, water leaks, broken cabinets, you name it.
Hi folks I’m a retired trucker and for those who don’t know the CHP inspects your rig thoroughly, any cracks in the frame and you have to park it. The frame Mfg. that supplies the R/V manufactures should be held liable for any cracks in the frame, I have been curious how can they get away with building an RV on an I-beam that is 3/16 of an inch thick I’ve seen one 30 foot travel trailer with horizontal and vertical stress cracks, I’ve had my RV out 12 times I have just noticed my Frame is starting to crack. If you are curious where these cracks can be found look at where your spring hangers are welded to the frame they have a piece of very small angle iron welded vertically, I cannot see how it does any good but that’s where I’m starting to pick up cracks, if it was a commercial rig and I was pulled into an inspection station that trailer would be red flagged. All metal frame work leading up to the king pin is spot welded on one side only. If anyone can Enlighten me on any reco
The vast majority of frames used by the manufacturers in Indiana are made by one company, Lippert Components (LCI). Contract awarded to the lowest irresponsible bidder. A lot of what amounts to “sheet metal” welded together by machine into structural shapes then assembled using a gluegun by entry level workers with little training. If you have an LCI frame, which you most likely do, it’s not a matter of when stress cracks develop but where and how quick. Hopefully theyre hidden or the owner never gets underneath and looks around, which is what the manufacturer and LCI are banking on.
Stress cracks are the result of poor metal (Chinese), not quality USW made steel. Don’t blame the workers for trying to do what they can with what they are supplied with.
I purchased my first motorhome in January 2021. A 2021 Thor Gemini 23TE for $85000. It had multiple issues from day one. Coach door latches misaligned, generator exhaust pipe fell off, skylight cover fell off, and other items dealer had to fix the first month. After 6 months I decided to sell it in August 2021. With the shortage on dealers lots and high demand for these units I was able to sell it for $119000 after having it 6 months and only 2000 miles on odometer. Nice profit and glad to get rid of it. A nightmare with too many problems. I’ll still travel in my SUV and stay in resort hotels without the headaches I had the short time owning a motorhome. Quality is pathetic.
so you passed on your problems to someone else for a profit really nice!!
Complain and brag in one paragraph about dumping your crap. Hey, you join the folks that sold it to you. Pitiful
I think what they are saying to you is, did what you had to do but keep your mouth shut just like they would have.
I just want to say thank you to all the people stepping up and exposing the rv industry. I was thinking about purchasing one in the near future. Now I’m just gonna keep pitching a tent. I would be heart broken after I spent money I don’t have on these things. You guys saved me.
“Purchasing one in the near future with money you don’t have?”
Ha, how American. One less loan🥲
Don’t rule out getting a used RV in good shape…somewhere around the 3-5 year mark with a documented maintenance history.
A good lesson learned in the RV world is to let the first owner go through that punch list of issues to save yourself some headaches.
The hearts are breaking everyday
Quit blaming Indiana for poor workmanship. Crappy parts, poor delivery, nobody wants to work and everyone wants a check. This is the results of glabal shortages and not enough workers because they all want to sit and take money for nothing.
Then Indiana needs to correct the poor workmanship. I would rather run a crew with 5 good people then 10 who don’t give a crap. When internal parts are not correctly installed someone sees it and lets it go. That has nothing to do with parts, deliveries. Quality control, is poor at best.
well im sorry but your wrong despite part shortages, with all that down time waiting for parts, they really should take that time and go over theyre units, properly train new employees. every single unit ive seen come in our lot, 1 in 5 normally would get sent back. on top of the rises in costs, warranty dont make it easier either, always cutting our labor times it takes to do these repairs ect.
Exactly right Dana. Read my reply to Johnny
Whether it’s a workforce or materials issue it is ultimately the manufacturers choice to send those units to the consumer. With all of the online communication in this day and age it will ultimately be the manufacturers demise. The outcome is obvious – The consumer will not continue to spend that kind of money for this quality product. It is a sad situation and not only prevalent in the RV world.
Well when nobody wants to pay a living wage, all you get are meth heads who couldn’t pass a background check to save their lives applying for your jobs. People are realizing they can do other things for more money and less stress, so companies that try to pay as little as possible are seeing the consequences for once.
That’s what I say, blame it on some other countries so they can take the responsibility.
and Elkhart can continue to build there Crap.
We just purchased (8/21) a 2021 Thor Vegas 24.1 Motorcoach from out of our state. We drove it off the lot and turned around after 30 minutes on the freeway because the coach A/C was blowing hot air and the mirrors would not work/adjust. After having the Ford dealer look at it, it turns out there is a crack in the A/C hose that was also kinked and ZIP TIED! Ford said it’s an after market hose so they won’t fix it. THOR says it Fords problem. It’s brand new! How is it an aftermarket part that no one will take responsibility for? Also, the hot water won’t work, the shower wall is leaking, kitchen sink faucet is leaking and the first step to walk in the RV is now soft. Now we are waiting for our RV dealership to work this A/C issue out with THOR. We have had to cancel two trips already.
Just received an update that THOR approved the A/C hose to be fixed under the warranty.
Sorry to hear this, but be prepared for more issues to follow; some due to innate RV nuances & others due to recent bad quality rolling out.
Thor core RVs have never been great in quality. We own a 2013 Thor ACE 29.2 & build quality is just below to average. Many issues with the dash A/C (evaporator, blower, etc.); badly designed/placed gray tank that will not dump below 1/3 unless you jack up the D/S; badly placed generator (behind D/S front wheel) leading to vapor lock in hot temps; slide issues; and horrible issues with the Battery Control Center (BCC) where Thor bumbled the recall effort.
At this point, we have dumped a TON of $$ into it with reparations/upgrades and finally have gotten most of the bugs out of it.
If the current quality is even worse than what was put out in 2013, can’t imagine the nightmares you will be dealing with moving forward. Good luck and God Bless…
Water in the floors, your problems are in there first stages. Good luck
Johnny Ringo
Are you a Huckleberry?
My wife and I purchased in 2018 a 32′ bumper pull travel trailer. The fit and finish was crap. The drain hose to the fridge was left inside the coach rather than to drain outside it drained on the sub floor. Now it has a soft floor in it, the heater went out after 1 year. They wouldn’t cover it, even the extended warranty wouldn’t cover it. So $1200 later the heater was fixed. They won’t cover the floor either. This is the shoddy work they’re speaking of and it’s not just in Indiana. My coach was made in Pendleton, Oregon.
The shoddy workmanship is compounded by clueless purchasers that don’t recognize imperfections early enough to minimize them. Their expectations are high, but their common sense is still on the launch pad. A clown show fed by unhandy people with too much money relying on underpaid undertrained workers.
Maybe some ‘smart’ folks will steer their kids into a job where you make something instead of another ‘finance’
major we don’t need. Until then, we will be stuck with what we got. Buyer beware
It is a disservice to the word quality to use it in the same sentence as Fleetwood. I purchased a new Fleetwood Bounder in 2013 and am still finding issues with what is nothing more than just horrid workmanship. So this is nothing new to the industry.
We bought our little travel trailer (17 ft) in 2019 to just stick our toe in the RV water, to see if we even enjoyed the camping experience as much as we thought we would. The answer was yes, my wife had never been camping before and was dubious about it, but now she is actively looking for places to camp. With that said, we did have a few problems with our Wolf Pup made by Forest River, but nothing too bad and all covered by the dealer under the warranty. We intended to replace the small trailer with a larger TT, 5th wheel, Class C or A, but it looks like we will stick with what we have and take shorter trip than planned until the industry gets its stuff together.
Lean Six Sigma. That’s the way out of the circle of poor quality. But it has to start at the top — if the executives don’t insist on doing things right the first time, and devolving quality control to the customers, then nothing will change.
What’s needed is a Toyota-like quality system introduced by at least one RV manufacturer… when the rest of the industry then sees their lunch being eaten by the leader, maybe, just maybe they will adjust. One can only imagine.
An Entegra executive actually boasts that they already use Lean Six Sigma in their customer service and manufacturing areas! Really, and how’s it working??
In normal times that makes sense but the labor force is so bad now it wouldn’t help. My son hired 14 people the other day and only 2 showed up while 2 other existing employees quit. All in one day. It’s the absurd unemployment rates being paid causing all this.
Thanks to the stupid policy for getting pay more to stay home than work. Good job our dear leaders.
If companies paid living wages, people would show up. It’s a race to the bottom. When foreign companies enter this market, there could be a blood bath of US RV makers.
Thanks, Leonard. I’d never heard of Lean Six Sigma before. For others who haven’t heard of it, here’s a brief description from Investopedia.com: “Lean Six Sigma is a team-focused managerial approach that seeks to improve performance by eliminating waste and defects. … Simply put, under the tenets of Lean Six Sigma any use of resources that doesn’t create value for the end customer is considered a waste and should be eliminated.” And here are the Key Principles of Lean Six Sigma from “Lean Six Sigma for Dummies”: Focus on the customer. Identify and understand how the work gets done (the value stream). Manage, improve and smooth the process flow. Remove Non-Value-Added steps and waste. Manage by fact and reduce variation. Involve and equip the people in the process.
I’ve learned something new today. Thank you, Leonard! Take care. 🙂 –Diane
I took the intro to Lean Six Sigma, a derivative of Q2020. Honda, Toyota and the military uses it
Thanks, Sher. Sounds like a good thing. Have a good evening/night. 🙂 –Diane
Lean Six Sigma and general quality principles are common in all kinds of manufacturing and also in technology and software development. If some RV company started using some basic (1999) quality analysis process improvement they could make a killing and have a lot of quick wins.
I believe it, Jonathan. It sure seems like quality control has gone by the wayside in the past few decades. I think some smaller RV manufacturers still care about what they produce. Unfortunately, they’re getting gobbled up by the big guys, who just care about the bottom line and not the quality and/or the principles involved. You can’t even say “You get what you pay for” anymore – because frequently you don’t. It is a “pathetic” state of affairs. Have a good night. 🙂 –Diane
Six Sigma can work but not if you don’t address the working people from 6am till 9pm six or seven days per week. I’ve seen some companies making record earnings do it out of greed, not labor shortage, that is a recent phenomenon. They will not have loyalty and will vote with their feet. My guess is it has gotten worse with the passing of Right to Work a few years ago. A lot of promises made, few kept.. you get what you pay for.
I took an intro to Lean Six Sigma and was impressed with the outcome of production. I agree to your point of having just one of these manufacturers commit to Quality Control system. Now what can I look forward to my 2021 Heartland Road Warrior waiting to be shipped from Nevada to Hawaii island. Seriously praying all goes well.
The description sounds a lot like the Landscape industry. But the consumers are sooo ignorant of quality they aren’t complaining .
The one constant is the price keeps climbing and the quality of an rv keeps falling! But people keep buying them! It’s all about the Benjamin! There is no pride in American factories anymore not just RVs ! Bought any furniture lately? What a joke.
I have a 2019 Casita, best built trailer ever. The dometic fridge quit after 8 months and it took 6 weeks to get a new cooling unit. The outside shower was a problem and Casita took care of it and incorporated the fix on their new units
The difference is Casita listens to their customers and makes changes
Go to the Casita forum and they list the changes they make on every model year
Most of the “problems” are from management trying to make a bigger profit by engineering cheap manufactured products to be installed in their units….I see this first hand at the truck building plant I worked at for 30 years…..cheap plastic dashes that cracked at the first year of service by the sun….headliners falling down from the heat on a daily basis.
Nobody has mentioned Northwood (Arctic Fox). Fairly high quality units but often double the price for those looking for bumper pulls or truck campers/ 5th wheels.
Several people have. I had a Northwood Nash and it did have better build quality, for its own cabinetry and wall construction. It still used the junky Dometic and other monopoly/duopoly third party suppliers which created a stream of small petty problems.
And just under a year in I realized my tires were wearing oddly. I had been driving around on a slightly bent axle. It took 3 weeks to get a replacement to me and a ferocious advocacy from a trailer repair place to not have to pay for it myself.
It does pay to seek out the best quality brands you can, but some people, who are trying to find affordable recreation, cannot afford to pay the premium. And frankly, quality should not be reserved for those who can afford to pay extra. Imagine if every auto sold came with no inspection and 30 things wrong with it. We wouldn’t stand for it. But somehow slap the title RV on it, and companies ship junk and dealers stock them and people buy them.
I had my 2019 jayco in for repairs in bowmanville at owsco rv for almost three months they called me and said it was ready and they did nothing and the person l talked to said he changing me $10 a day for storage l said why no work was done
No one wants to discuss the absolute legal slavery that these places are implying , have of them don’t pay you right and the other half don’t have parts and expect us to work until 8-9 at night when I came in at 5-6 , the worlds demands are unreasonable, we are giving it our all
Sad to hear. As I suspected.
This is what I am dealing with. Like you read in a lot of other reviews the floor is unusable. This unit was less then 3 years old when it started. The unit was in storage I pulled it out and the seal for slide out wall and floor had leaked and allowed water to ruin the slide out floor to where it needs to be fully replaced. I contact Highlands customer service and they told me it was not covered by the warranty that I had for three years. I followed every direction they stated in the book for storing and cleaning. And now because I cannot come up with $4000 to $6000 I now have a 15-year loan on a paperweight. I have done a lot of research on this problem and if you look through all the reviews and everything this is a major issue with this brand and with jayco who is the owner of it. The the seals that use are not holding up. They are not taking responsibility for their workmanship and now an investment that I made for many years is now ruined. I’m being told that none of this is covered.
Ok I’m looking at the dates of the rvs on most of these comments. Has any else noticed that the quality went into the crapper shortly after Indiana went to “right to work” , meaning no unions?!
Good observation.
I would like everyone who has made a comment to know that we are not in a union. I’ve been building these rvs for 13 years and I’ve never heard of any rv company being in a union… Also I’d like to speak out so everyone understands this industry… I am a base setter for a company that is based in Elkhart County running 20 units a day, and its true its been very rough the last year and a half. people not wanting to come in, never knowing when someone’s going to call off or quit on you… When someone calls off you or someone else has to chip in and help do that person’s job now granted that’s a full days worth of work and there’s been many time 2 or 3 people have called off in a single day and the good experienced rv worker is forced to do the work with no extra pay other then the pay we make on a normal week.. we are struggling as an industry finding people to work at all due to covid and all the money the government keeps giving out. so I hope people can understand a little better.
So they do not get paid at all for the extra hours of work you mentioned while covering for workers that did not show? I suspect this would certainly be against the federal labor laws unless they are classified “Exempt” (management, not hourly).
I wonder if these things are related…
“forced to do the work with no extra pay”
“struggling as an industry finding people to work at all”
Haha. You’d think they could add 2 and 2 together but judging by how badly these things are put together, I guess not.
Have you considered maybe (the industry, not you personally) — you know, paying them for the extra hours? You have personnel retention issues but you treat them like crap? It’s always made me laugh when I hear employers say “we can’t find good help” when in reality it translates to “we can’t find good help we’re only willing to pay as little as we can as possible”.
You get what you pay for. If that’s the prevailing attitude in the industry, you get what you deserve and if you feel “employee loyalty is in the shitter” – well usually people quit because of bad managers and bad working conditions.
There’s a very advanced piece of technology called a mirror. I wish the people in this industry who are decision makers actually used it.
“we can’t find good help we’re only willing to pay as little as we can as possible”.
Mantra found in many areas . . . including the service industry.
So.blame it on the government you say? Ever considered paying a higher wage to retain quality workers as an option?
Mr. Secret-
Thanks for your inside information. It correlates well with what I have heard from others over there.
By the way- what is a base setter?
Georgia has been a “right to work state” for years, we build good quality. I don’t believe that’s the problem. I believe the issue is all the free handouts from the government & all the unemployment they’re receiving, people don’t care anymore. They don’t want to be told what to do so they quit.
We bought a top of the line as we thought the quality would be better. However, Grand Design did not stand behind their warranty on a 4 month old catastrophic failure. They essentially blamed us and said the freshwater tank is not supposed to be over half full .
I would contact GD cs and talk to a different representative. That is not their normal response.
Really that is not true! Lies lies lies!
I think any honest RV sales person would quit and find a different job. Having been in sales for 45 years I never sold products that did not perform as they should. I sold products that would not fail my customers(friends). I sold in a repeat sales so I treated customers as friends not just a dollar in my pocket, if something happened I took care of it. When a customer would ask if a product that my company was pushing was great(advertising) and if I had problems or doubts about it I would not recommend it. I don’t mean to sound all goody two shoes but my name, my integrity, would not allow me to sell a subpar product to my customers.
I bought a 2020 Dyna Max Isata 3 in early March just before Covid hit. I have had nothing but trouble with it. I received it with two flat dually tires. The door strut was broken. We think on the trip from Indiana to WA the door was caught by wind and was sprung, it never has closed right. The door would pop open at any given time because the locks didn’t work. The slider has not been right since we got it. It had a water leak in the toilet water hose. The cruise control stuck and nearly killed us on the first trip we took. The awning was missing a cap. The M/H has a jack to change a tire and a spare tire rack (under the chassis) but no spare tire. They told us they do it for safety sake. They don’t want the customer changing a rear dually tire. What do you do in the middle of nowhere if you have no spare? I do have to give Camping World kudos, they have fixed everything to date.
We bought a 2021 Keystone Passport 239ml, and then took it on an 8500mi trip from Florida to California and back. I spent just about the whole trip fixing a horribly put together piece of junk. First, the sink was seemingly leaking everywhere. In fact the drain was leaking because they hadn’t removed the cardboard packing shipped with the drain. Second they tightened the hot water junction to the faucet so tight it crushed the cone washer. This of course leaked into the cabinet disintegrating the cheap press board construction.
Anyone who’s traveled on America’s roads know that 80% of them are in horrible condition. After the first week the interior panels started falling off, as they were put together with tiny staples. No match for the jostling the road was giving them. I spent the rest of the trip reattaching a cascade of failing panels.
This trailer has a Murphy bed, don’t get a trailer that has one of these. The tin foil hinges broke almost immediately. Total junk!
This is the reason why I’m looking at older RVs. I’d rather put the money into a remodel rather than in a new one considering the issues on top of astronomical depreciation. Older ones also tend to be easier to fix, maintain, and redo. We’ve looked at new ones and all I see is junk priced as if it is gold.
To all re their dissatisfaction
Quality still out there
AIRSTREAM!!
Yes, much more than most can afford
There is a lot of truth in these statements. But, dealers and customers both want, want, want. You want an older RV, then go that route. I will not buy a new car because of the depreciation on it I would receive as I drive it off the lot. But, part suppliers to the RV AND the home industries are working 6 days a week, 12 hour shifts, and are not hurting for business. But, with there not being a RV employee production registration program to combat job hopping leads to personnel, in some aspects of manufacturing, having these companies by the nuts. They can demand whatever they financially want and get it because no one wants to work and they know this. This isn’t 10 years ago when there was ample employees available and you could actually fire the bad apples. HR departments discourage this practice. So the cycle begins all over again.
We bought a 73 class C Dodge chassis motor home (Fireball) new and it had several problems on delivery. The inside A/C evaporator water drain put water inside the vehicle. The gas line filler hose was kinked so the pump would always shut off. Took about 1/2 hour to fill tank. The wheel alignment of the chassis was never adjusted after the weight of the living space was added. All the cabinets inside were made of flimsy particle board. Electrical problems were all over with the lights not working.
If you buy an older motor home/trailer, now, most of the problems have been fixed.
Howdy! Nothing has changed, unless for the worse.
In 1998, we bought a new Fleetwood Bounder 32K from Poulsbo RV in Everett, Washington, aiming to be full-timers. I made a website to keep track of our adventures.
When I wrote about things breaking, falling apart etc., and our tries, with little success, to get them repaired, people began sharing their own frustration over Poulsbo RV’s inability or refusal to do repairs. Soon, the guestbook was almost all complaints about Poulsbo RV.
Poulsbo RV never took care of our problems, but at least I upset them enough to threaten us with two lawsuits.
Dick in Miles City
https://web.archive.org/web/20080417103318/http://www.poulsborv.com.fleetwood.net/others.htm
https://web.archive.org/web/20080301233702/http://home.earthlink.net/~dellingson/gbinterim.htm
https://web.archive.org/web/20010302020543/http://poulsborv.com.fleetwood.net/
https://web.archive.org/web/20080509201726/http://poulsborv.com.fleetwood.net/jdn1.htm
Great job!!! Hopefully those clowns at Poulsbo RV will take the complaints seriously and up their quality control. Probably best to avoid them all together. There has to be a dealer that still cares about their customers. Apparently, Poulsbo RV isn’t one of them.
Good luck! Hopefully you are able to do the repairs yourself and do a much better job…. Because you care.
“There has to be a dealer that still cares about their customers.”
I have discovered one and only one: NIRVC. If you have an issue, the owner will call you and make it right.
We bought a 2021 Tiffin Allegro Red and have not been happier. I believe it is partly the result of Tiffin’s QC, but also the dealer we brought it from (Bob Leeford in Greenville, SC) taking a week to go through it to fix any obvious issues. We’ve put 7000 miles on it since May including a 6 week, 2600 mile trip. Other than a few loose screws we’ve had essentially no issues.
Prior to this, we had a 2021 Entegra Accolade. After 2100 miles it was obvious the QC was terrible and the dealer (General RV in Ashland, VA) didn’t care to fix it. We had far too many minor and major issues with that thing. Thankfully our trade-in was just $5,000 below what we paid. Well worth the swap.
Seven years ago we bought a 1977 class C motorhome for $300. Had to fix a few things but because it’s an older, well made unit it just keeps chugging along. It’s much easier and less expensive to work on than the newer ones.
There are some nice older units out there but they are selling for big $$$ now because they’re worth it.
Another problem with that tho is there’s a lot of rv parks out there now that have these stupid policies that don’t allow rvs over a certain age. Or like ours is in good shape but because of sun some of the decals are faded or peeling (not badly) but that’s not allowed either.
Mirage poor quality and horrible customer service. wall separated, spare wheel fell off, cabinet fell off the wall, frame welds failed, ALL THREE axles failed and wheels were ready to fall off the unit
I have a friend who spent $60k+ on a fifth wheel camper nearly three years ago. He said he’s spent more time at various dealer repair shops fixing problems, than he has traveling in it.
Problems with our new travel trailer from the get-go. Frig didn’t cool, no hot water on electric side, then big water leak from the hot water tank, trim pieces falling off or attached wrong. Back to the dealer for warranty fixes while we lost 2.5 months of use. Definitely jaded our experience buying our first RV. Dealer fixed the HW tank & frig but missed the trim pieces — I took care of that. However, a few weeks later I had to re-fix the leaking HW tank connection. I had to apply Teflon tape to the problematic connection, as well as the toilet water line connection (both plastic fittings started dripping). Imagine, I fixed both leaks with a 50 cent roll of Teflon tape. None of which the manufacturer used anywhere. Talk about cutting corners.
Grand Design Transcend Xplor 260RB trailer.
Geez, I thought GD was building good quality, are any manufacturers building anything worth anything?
Nope, believe me I would know if they were. This is so far beyond what happened in 2009, so much worse.
“are any manufacturers building anything worth anything?”
Well, Laura, there is only one answer to your question- yes. But it will not be inexpensive. If you want a (mostly) bulletproof coach, one where you can bring it in for same-day repairs with all the parts in stock and have certified experts do the work, then the coach you are looking for is Prevost.
I have seen the operation and met some of the technicians and everything was top-notch. There was no “cutting corners” or other poor quality. There is also no rush to produce a coach like the big manufacturers. A 20-year-old Prevost will still command $300,000 and a new coach will be well over a million.
This is still RIDICULOUS for how many sqft ? 300 ?
HOLY CRAP !!!!
This is for a used one ?
Thats what we paid for 50 acres with 2 houses (4000
sqft and 1800sqft) a barn ginormous a shop huge and 2 out buildings.
I mean come on !!!
The RV Industry is/has fighting this problem for years. At end of warranty period for 2019 Newmar, I had 38 warranty items factory had to fix. Now got window recall, PDM is still suspect but no parts. RV industry did this to themselves, by moving parts manfacturing overseas, especially China. If Honda Motor builds RV going for that one, excellent quality. OAT-If, the estimates bear fruit on units made/sold, that puts about 1.3 million more RV’s on road, first driven by people who may have never done so before, and if you think crowding is bad now, let that many more units fight for the same space we have now. Local Communities do not see RV parks as a benefit, they see them as havens for junk, albeit, Mobile Home parks of yesteryear. This is exemplified by the RV’er who has “stuff” around their rig making it look like a town lives in it. 20 Kids running amok, dogs off leash, barking making noise, and just generally a slum. That example needs to change, until it does,?????
Ken, welcome to world of RV’ing. Quality control is impossible because, none, not one assembler, is plumber, electrician, carpenter, etc. If I was you, check evey connection in circuit panel and the 12VDC distribution box. Make sure power is off, dont overtighten, but my guess is, every single one is lose. That is based on your experience stated below. If the plumbing was mess, think electrical is too. Electrical can kill you/fire?????
All – one more point, read all posts, they show how terrible RV industry is now, and under present government we are not going to see any different, it’s only going to get worse. When not If, when crash comes, 50% of all manfacturers of RV are going to be gone. Paying more does not get you better quality, we were considering selling 2019 Ventana, but now may sell house and live in it while trying to find new place. I/Factory have everything fixed perfect, sans recall on windows. I will live with that and get fixed/inspected when time.
What does the present government have anything to do with poor RV quality?
Not a thing. Just a way for MDB to get a dig in for another subject he appears to have an interest in. Too difficult for some people to keep their political persuasion out of any discussion….
The don’t give a dam attitudes they have right now because of how the country is being run. It’s being run into the ground and is a reflection of workers not wanting to put out a quality product. Here today, gone tomorrow not knowing what is around the corner. Plus all of the drugs coming across (china) the border is fueling the drug use at all of the factories. Getting high at lunch and building RVs what a combination.
Keep your politics to yourself, the present administration has been in office since January, RV manufacturers have been making junk for years!
Just like what happen to Sears. More and more RV manufacturers (and brand names) are being gobbled up by so called “investment” firms. Their interests are not concerned with building quality RVs. They’re only interest is in profits. Every time an established RV manufacturer falls into their grasp, the RV consumer loses. That also applies to the components used in RVs. It’s sad to see well know brands that stand behind their products with excellent warranties and support fall prey to these heartless investment companies that could care less about anything but their bottom line. And when that bottom line fails to meet their expectations, they are simply cast off and all support is lost making repairs impossible.
I have seen how the RV industry manufacturers it’s product and it reminds me of the auto industry of 40 years ago. At that time a company from Japan introduced the Toyota Manufacturing system and turned the industry on its ear. Today we call the Toyota system LEAN and any manufacturing company that hasn’t seriously adopted the complete system is a company looking to go out of business.
If the industry had really and seriously adopted LEAN in every aspect of production, these quality issues would have been gone years ago. I have been in the plant of the company that produces U-Haul and other motorized units. They don’t need skilled labor, the system trains the employees and anyone can come up to speed quickly. They build quality into the product, not inspect it in after the unit is built.
When I saw an RV trailer manufacturer trying to inspect the quality in at the end of the process, I knew this would come to bite them in the butt. And it has.
William E. Deming is the single person who turned the auto industry around and added quality. He and Jeffery Liker have shaped my career for the past 25 years.
I urge anyone in the audience to read a book (or two) by Dr. Deming or Dr. Liker and you will understand Mr. Welch’s post and mine above.
I purchased a “used” travel trailer back in 2016, a 2014 Dutchmen. I’ve had some issues with it that required taking it for service and were all out of my pocket, as there is no warranty. Fortunately for me, nothing major has gone wrong it. I would like to upgrade to a newer 5-Wheel and I have been browsing through various RV (dealer) websites. New is out of the question as there is no way I can afford the price tags!! So I focus on used 5-wheels, which I’m finding, are also beyond what I can afford, not to mention the never ending problems/issues/breakdowns regardless of brand! I’m thinking I might be better off just keeping what I have despite it not having what I would like in a RV.
One year ago we bought a 2021 Sandpiper 321RL 5th wheel trailer by Forest River.
This is our 4th RV and we have never had problems like this. The table fell over, it was only secured by two screws at the bottom. One of the jacks leaked. The suspension on the rear axle broke (shackles on both sides broke, leaving the rear axle just floating). Shower door handles fell off. Sink fell down on one side. Many other minor things. This in one year with 15,000 miles. Since this was the first one the dealer got, I even wondered if it was built just as a show model, not for actual use.
Lonny and Janice
Dogs Maggie and Kylie
Lonnie and Janice,
We have a Forest River Sandpiper 2010 and I am stunned at how cheaply they are made. It LEAKS like crazy especially around the windows and the slides. We have had to do so much work and replace so much. This how we figured out just how shoddy they are made. Nothing but particle board. Not even plywood. PARTICLE BOARD !
It’s just AWFUL !!!
Let me in there. I am an expert in quality control and lean processing as well as Six Sigma. At first, the manufactures will not like me at all, but over time (when they see a better reputation and a larger bank balance) they will come to find me as one of their most valuable assets.
It is most unfortunate that I will not be holding my breath waiting for a “Come to Indiana” email. But if a manufacturer wants me to work with them, you have my word that there will be a change in quality.
Quality will never improve, always junk. RVIA and fire endorsement is a joke. Rolling projects with junk tires because of greed.
Sadly, it is a sign of the times. It’s the labor pool more than anything. These young workers just don’t want to work a proper 40 hour week, and the imigrant workers don’t have the same work ethic that GenX and earlier Americans do.
Bull, they simply don’t want paid starvation wages! When I bought my first home it was $59,900, young folks today will be lucky to own a home! You can age but don’t get old or you’ll start wearing dark socks with sandals and yelling at people to get off your lawn!
That is complete nonsense. Plenty of people want to work, but they don’t want to work for peanuts.I am so sick of people blaming workers for everything wrong with this country when the truth is quite obvious. Corporate greed and worker exploitation are at the root of America’s decline. Corporate leaders want never ending growth in profits and wealth for themselves, at the cost of workers. This is unsustainable, anyone with a brain in their head can tell you that.
Sorry Mike but this poor quality has been going on for years now. Thor was one of the worst in 2017. Since then Thor bought up the better builders because there is more money in volume than quality.
Not only has there been poor quality it’s been years of poor design. I doubt very much there’s ever the thought of field testing – they ( the industry) just built and turned them loose on unsuspecting owners to sort out what’s wrong and somehow deal with the shortcomings on our own
We started out with a tiny Casita travel trailer – great quality, no problems. Then we thought my Mom would travel with us, so we made the mistake of selling the Casita (for more than we paid for it) and bought a large Heartland North Trail trailer. Lots of problems in the two years we owned it. Floor under shower sprung a leak and soaked the entire bathroom. Toilet sprung a leak and spewed water all over the bathroom. Main air conditioner failed. Hot water tank failed. One slide broke and led to a very expensive repair. Couldn’t take the constant worry and repairs. Sold it for a lot less than we paid for it just to get rid of it. Have been waiting a year for our new Casita – we pick it up in 2 weeks. Obviously, this tiny trailer is not for most people or families, but it is big enough for us. Hoping we will find it was well worth the wait. I wouldn’t buy any other trailer after what we experienced and everything we have read on the forums. I don’t have any answers.
This is really sad. I had a Skyline Nomad. Skyline was purchased by Evergreen which then exited the business. I really regret selling that trailer. It was a 24ft 2010 model 2020B and I had added a generator, solar, rear toy hatch, leather couch, etc. I replaced it with a 1996 Safari Sahara Diesel Motorhome, that is probably the best built coach ever made. No particle board anywhere. It is just too large for our needs now, and maybe with any luck, I can get my Nomad back as My sister now owns it and wants a toy hauler… Fingers crossed. New products are total junk. Also, don’t worry about the dealers, They are all marking them up over list due to covid and making bank. They will be just fine and are happy to push this stuff on the market.
I suspect that a comparison of the quality of US-made RVs versus Euro-made ones could be enlightening, as generally US businesses seem to be traditionally focused on maximizing profit while European businesses seem to be traditionally more focused on preserving company or family business reputation. This conforms with the way American values focus more on material success while European values focus more on living “well”. As the saying goes, “Americans live to work, and Europeans work to live.” This might have something to do with the way European culture is rooted in the feudal patronage system, where patrons and later the populace patronized reputable businesses, while the American culture values independence, individualism, and efficient markets more…?
And I think much of this quality problem can be laid right at the feet of the American consumer who has been taught the WalMart Ethic of equating the cheapest price with the best value. “You get what you pay for…”
That’s very insightful (and kinda sad), Carson. My last half of the quote is: “And you don’t get what you don’t pay for.” Have a good evening. 🙂 –Diane
Yes, blame the fat lazy American and our capitalistic ways. It’s the easy thing to do. I don’t know where you come from maybe somewhere In Europe but, me I live In the greatest country In the world the USA. We do have our problems and where not perfect but, we do work hard as, I do to afford nice things. I expect quality when I spend a certain amount of money. I do shop at Walmart but not for a diamond ring. The problem lies In the manufacturers. If you incentivize and show a little loyalty to your workers It would go a long way. The workers see the executive driving up in there new Benz or BMW. They then say here I am working my ass off while he gets big fat raises and bonuses. If they did the same for the worker whom are the backbone of any company they wouldn’t have this problem.
We build mostly crap here and its getting worse. Example: BMW or Lexus/Toyota vs Any American car maker, lift the hood and look at the fluid reservoir caps, BMW, Toyota etc… Will have indicators and the caps snap exactly into place, not on American cars! Look at transmissions, Europeans and Japanese uze high grade stainless steel ball bearings, American car makers use bushings, and of lower grade steel.
I enjoy how you responded to a well thought out comment with stereotypically American incoherent, reactive drivel, completely missing the point. It sounds like he hit a nerve.
Yes, he hit a nerve. But I don’t blame him lashing out, and ‘the point’ is questionable. Americans have been underpaid for 40 years as all the profits shoot to the top, then we get dissed for being buying the cheapest thing we can find in search of affordable vacations. Clearly for the fortunate and the trust-fund babies the answer is to pay for premium products. But for many of us that’s not an option. We don’t deserve slapped together junk with no quality control just because we don’t ‘pay up’. p.s. the luxury brands are also putting out junk.
Americans have been underpaid compared to… whom? We fought hard for worker’s rights in the 20s, then volunteered to throw all of that away for empty promises in the 80s. Now we have what we bought into.
“blame the fat lazy American and our capitalistic ways. It’s the easy thing to do.”
No, blame ourselves for buying garbage just for being able to say we bought *something*. Do you really think any country that thinks it’s the “greatest country in the world no matter what it does” is going to be making high quality anything? We’ve been convinced that working for a buck is a better idea than working for high quality and our own pride in our workmanship. Our workmanship WAS legendary, now it’s just legend.
I agree I work in RVs and my pride dictates I try my best to not build junk to send down the line… I do receive a modest paycheck but it stops there! The company don’t match anything for my 401k boo yearly or even attendance bonuses hell it’s the first place I’ve ever worked that don’t give you a turkey or ham for your holiday… Nothing! 30 units a day 5 days a week is gruelling labor! I believe reduction of units without reduction of pay and occasional now gestures to let you workers know there appreciated would do more than they could realize!
Too many da*n illegals in our workforce here in the U.S.
Many of these people have no pride in their work.
I doubt there are many illegal immigrants in Elkhart
Lol obviously you’ve never been here we call Elkhart and surrounding areas little Mexico for a reason!
No, the problem started with Trump kicked out the international workforce with ICE. Before 2018 when they were here, it all was fine. Mexican workers have a great work ethic when you treat and pay them well.
So the quality issues with American made products just started in 2016? I’ve been in the RV industry for almost 50 years, I can tell you the junk started coming out of IN long before 2016. As far as other American produced products, the cost of producing a “competitive” product in the US is far greater due to the cost of labor and related expenses which makes companies look for other ways to cut costs or just simply move manufacturing to countries where child labor is legal. I personally hate China and everything it stands for but I understand why much of US manufacturing was moved there. Just suppose a magic wand was waived and all products sold in the US were made by American hands, how much do you think that product would cost given the salaries or wages that are demanded by American workers, think UAW…. now apply that to everything made in the US. Your Referiderator made with all American made components inside would cost $4500 instead of $2500 now. Your favorite camera would be about triple in cost. The US worker did it to themselves, demand higher salary, better benefits, etc so companies to stay competitive moved off shore in many ways to lower their costs. Do the Executives get rich, yes absolutely, they’re the ones who Wall Street rewards for making money for the stock holders. Stocks don’t do well when the company looses money year over year. I’ll bet you have stocks, don’t you, and you like those dividends don’t you!
” I personally hate China and everything it stands for” Wonderful. You’re great for our image. China is a billion individuals with about 30 different ethnicities and you think “China” stands for something you even understand? You don’t. China makes great products when you send them good design, or pay them for good design, and follow-up with appropriate and adequate QC. Every country in the world gets Chinese-made products and are able to slap a Benz or Versaci label on it no problem.
I agree. Hispanic workers are very hard- working! But…if they’re here illegally, they can’t work here.
Tell that to the greedy corporations that exploit immigrant labor everyday.
Yes to the 1st part of that statement and a lol no to the conclusion of youre posting . The big manufactures all have super cheap and super light weight standards. The lightest material that is popular in manufacturing is gonna be “MDF”. This is particle board crap. The moment it gets moist,wet, or endures a lateral pressure its gonna fold. Zero rigidity. So how can we expect this to make it passed the 10 year mark ? Well cause the majority is purposely ignoring its structure and focus on outer shell looks or how cool they can park all there buddy’s and them into a giant circle. U se the population thats worried about there white pikit fence and leading the joneses into the coolaid. Have literally zero care whats inside the walls as long as there nit having to do any work. Otherwise ther plans are to trade it in 2 yrs later anyways. So. Yes way to many illegal sunsbitches here but the issue has zero to do with them its us or our sheeple neighbor or …. the auto industry is same way as is many many things … sad but true. But
I call MDF “cereal box tops”.
AM radio right here. I’ve worked for 50 years here, and have never once seen an “illegal”. The people who had no pride (or humility) are the Americans who benefit from illegals doing the grunt work AND complain about it.
That ignorant racist nonsense. The fact is, most immigrants work circles around the average natural born American and they will work for cheap, which is why they are hired in the first place. Where is your scathing critique of the greedy corporations that exploit immigrant labor, while betraying the American worker?
The trash I was sold.,from Capitol TV Il.minot.nr
Capitol TV.minot.nd.trash.no.warranty
I think you had a stroke, Jay.
Thats why I’ve been looking at Australian manufacturers like “Black Series”.
Agreed. The Aussies seem to be building some awesome units and that “Black Series” looks amazing.
Some of the Australian trailers are manufactured in mainland China and from what I’ve read they seem to be okay. I’m not saying it is good or bad. I’m interested in a Chinese RV , it can’t be any worse than what is coming out of northern Indiana. I’d only buy it if I could test everything first but one has to go to China first. My friend bought a Chinese motorcycle from a distributor in Texas and has been quite happy with it after he replaced the wheels and tires (too wobbly). I guess I’ll hold onto my ‘04 Starcraft Travel Star travel trailer for a little while.
This is the very reason I recently bought a used 5th wheel built in 2012. Took it on the road for 6 months straight with very few and only minor issues. My advice, buy used prior to 2018. Use a certified inspector. All the warranty work is already shaken out and if it was well taken care of, your inspector will know. I will not buy any durable good made in the last 18 months. Between supply chain issues and labor, manufacturers in most countries were not ready, but still had to “make their numbers”. This article shows the result.
I purchased a 2021 Forest River 5th wheel after selling my 2016 Keystone TT. I had zero issues with the Keystone, the Forrest River has been a nightmare. I have repeatedly contacted Forrest River and no 1 will call/email me back. Most issues are just cheap/poor workmanship and poor quality materials. I’m sick about how much I spent for the garbage I received.
Why are you calling Forest River? They didn’t build the RV, one of their divisions did so call that division, each has an executive team you can call.
How to obtain one of the divisions? Thank you for all your help in this Situation🎃
I bought a new 2021 Grand Design Imagine 22mle in October 2020. Major water leak discovered in April 2021. Too many other issues to list. My RV has been at a local dealership since August 2021. My contact at Grand Design has express zero empathy. I have owned several RV’s with little or no issues. This purchase was a bad decision.
7 years back we bought a 2013 Mesa Ridge Open Range, 35 ft, 3 slides.
Thankfully we have had NONE of the heart breaking issues more recent models have gifted their owners.
Perhaps I should sell but again, we trust this rig and am so thankful that back then quality was not a by word it was instead the intent and subject of every conversation.
In all honesty, what can we as consumers do about this? I bought a 2021 Forest River Cherokee Destination and it has more issues than a divorced couple. It’s been 5 months and the parts to fix the dozens of issues still aren’t all in and our campground closes in 4 weeks. With all these issues, is this grounds for class action law suits? I know numerous people having issues with their poorly put together campers.
What can consumers do?? Easy don’t buy the junk rvs . They keep building junk yet stupid people keep buying it for some reason.
Some people even order and buy them site unseen why in gods name would you do that?
You said it Jack. Stupid people reading reviews and expecting different results. I would have been an rv dealerships best customer. But it’s you people expressing your complaints that has pushed me out of the rv market. It a shame but I am not a glutton for punishment.
You have two fundamental choices, and you have the fine option of employing both at the same time.
1) do NOT buy garbage.
2) build your own RV in a used coach
A friend of mine bought a Thor coach 2 years ago and has had nothing but problems. These things are built cheap and rushed through production. He had his at the dealership several times for issues. It finally went back to the company where it was built. He threatened them with a lawsuit and still has problems. He rents his out and it is on the road a lot. The dealership told him it was not meant to be used that much. What??? That is why he bought it. He had floors replaced, cabinets redone, insulation was falling out from between the walls in his driveway. For $80,000 you would expect better.
We had a Forest River travel trailer, and it literally fell apart. Started with delamination of front and rear panels. Fortunately traded it in on a better unit, but Forest River is a ‘definitely avoid’ for us.
Maybe it’s time to start some advocacy type groups and start “camping” out at RV shows with booths pointing out what interested buyers are getting into and what to expect.
Same with dealers, I won’t buy a roll of toilet paper from Camping World. For the life of me I don’t see how they continue to grow.
At some of the big rallies invite CEO’s to speak and push them to explain why they can’t build a quality product. Of course they probably would not show and give the corporate speak on how great they are.
That is an excellent idea, Bruce. If someone has the time and resources to get this idea off the ground, I just want to know where we can sign up.
I purchased a RPod 202. Took almost 8 months to get it. I finally received it and it has yet to be camping. The units front window has a very large leak. So once it was able to be seen by the dealer they found that water finds it’s way into the internals of the wall when you cut the hole bigger then the window. Now that the 2 month old units front cap was finally approved to be removed and rebuilt the have discovered black mold. Every screw and staple is rusted. I live in Colorado so this is hard to do in my climate. When I call Tina from forest river RPod warranty division I get the run around because the dealer is asking for to many hours. The rv has not been camping yet. My rv is in pieces and I have no idea what to do. They don’t care.
Will this apply?
https://www.carlemon.com/magnuson-moss-warranty-act-the-federal-lemon-law.html
Hire a lawyer!!!
This is why we bought a Leisure Travel Van in the first place. Looking at Thor, Forest river, and the 782 sub-brands between them, we consistently found they were junk. You could see fit and finish issues in the brand new show models, and that was two years ago before pandemic labor and parts issues. Staples, glue, and stickers is no way to build a product.
I see some people asking “what can we do?” Nothing. The American consumer shops on price, period. It’s why airlines suck, it’s why Wal-Mart and Amazon sell warehouses full of cheap junk from China, and it’s why most RV makers can get away with junk. We complain about quality and service, but we shop on price.
My LTV isn’t perfect, it’s had a couple parts break (awning motor, door latch) but nothing major. It’s never left us stranded. It’s rock solid, and two years after we bought it we’ve absolutely loved it. It is worth MORE than we paid for it, so we will be upgrading. My biggest worry is what brand to buy that isn’t junk.
As we can all see, the “Free Market” that we’ve been assured will fix everything, doesn’t. Why? 1) We don’t have a truly free market system – never have and never will. 2) people keep buying stuff they know is garbage instead of drawing a line in the sand because of their addiction to owning more “stuff”, which is what The Joneses are doing. In short, we’re ignorant and have no discipline as a society. We bought a high quality used bus and built our own RV. I have seen too many Binnewago-class RVs explode into tiny fragments on the highways just from tipping over.
We bought an LTV for this reason. But our slide out had to be replaced within the first week and had a problem with our door. Been in the shop for over a week. It had already been delayed for 3 months. Now we are living out of an Air BnB waiting for it to be fixed. Very disappointing.
This is why I built my own. 4 years on and not a single problem. I know that not everyone has the ability to do so, but there is a huge community of people restoring older RVs or building them from scratch. One problem is that people are wanting bigger and bigger units with more and more features. The more parts the more likelihood of a failure. When you start adding fireplaces, island kitchens, fancy lighting, five and six slides, outdoor kitchens and complex entertainment systems, coupled with inexperienced labor this is what you get. These palaces on wheels are destined for more breakdowns regardless of quality.
I purchased a trailer from a leading mfg this year and because of what I do for a living, was able to visit the plant with my partner. What we saw blew our minds. Both of us have experience with mfg plants and this was unlike anything we had ever witnessed before. Utter chaos, no formal assembly line. This translated into a horrible build. So many things have gone wrong in the past 6 months of owning the trailer. We continue to see sawdust. They never vacuumed the unit out. They didn’t even use finished wood, bare starboard was used everywhere. It is deplorable. I cannot believe that a law firm has not begun a class-action lawsuit. For what these people are charging, it’s unacceptable!
We also have a travel trailer, and I always tell my friends who are thinking about getting one to ‘ first make sure you have a complete tool box kit, because you will need it’. This goes on and on, and still the manufacturers can hire high school students on their lunch hour to put RV ‘s together. Fortunately ours is now in great condition – because I have spent countless hours vacuuming up sawdust, fixing electrical connections and faulty plumbing. This is our last RV, thankfully…
If you saw the plant and it was as you describe, why in the world would you buy one of their products?
Buy used. 1999 Bounder and only had one problem other than regular maintence and repairs after 22 years and that was the ignitor gap on the heater.
We have a 1999 Holiday Rambler 36 ft. fifth wheel. This was built in the era when quality came first. Have had it for 7 years and have had no major issues. Had a board replaced on the water heater and I replaced the toilet ring two weeks ago. Roof has never leaked and slides work as they should. No other problems. Been well satisfied with our purchase. Only drawback is that it is around 12000 lbs. empty. We pull it with a dually and have no problems. Good luck finding a good camper with no problems if you are purchasing a new one.
Exactly why I am building my own trailer. Properly built, wired, plumbed, insulated…What I have seen new on lots is absolute garbage! Overpriced Junk! Unacceptable fit and finish, if any. I feel for the people who put their faith in the dealers and manufacturers, as they purchase their lifelong dream that should generate many family memories, but instead, create trouble, disappointment and unsolicited stress. I truly feel for these good people, and class action lawsuits should be created, holding the manufacturers liable.
We bought a new Thor Delano on a MB Sprinter chassis. That was Aug it’s now Dec and we’re still waiting for parts and repairs to be able to take it on our first road trip. Sloppy work, pieces falling apart or not fitting. Seals that don’t seal etc gave the dealer a list of 25 items needing to be addressed. They only have time for ten. I have written both the manufacture Thor and Camping World where we purchased the unit. Many apologies but we’re still not on the road. Buyer beware … someday we’ll be up and running.
Quality is Job 1!! Right from Consumer to Mfr. Dealers are 1st. point of contact as most Consumers go with RV Dealers 1st.
RV Dealers looking after your House is Job 1. & looking in the Mirror is Job 1!!
Personally, thru some pain, have found my Mfr. to be straight up & credible & RV Dealer not so!!
Will Buy from Mfr. again. RV Dealer No!!
What I wanna know is why is it so difficult to find repair parts for rvs, parts manufacturers only want to sell wholesale parts to dealers where they effectively r**e the customers, tasty you try to buy parts to properly repair it yourself. Right now I’m trying to source the 1/4” wht luan plywood for the ceiling of my 5th wheel, due to a cheap a** junk roof that I need to also replace, otherwise this thing is literally falling down around me.. one thing about rv’s is from the moment you purchase it, it immediately starts going down hill, if you don’t have a cover to put it under refrain from buying one until you do.
Wife and I last year purchased an 89 Ford Granville Debonair 26 footer,we’re the third owners, with taxes and tags,and full vehicle insurance, our cost was $10,000. The original build sheet,and window sticker for the motorhome was $47,570,,a bit pricey for a unit in 1989,,the parent company went out of business in 1991,,their units cost too much!! On the other hand , these were top of the line ,fully equipped units in their days,according to the various rv dealers that have seen our Class’C’,and they always want to buy it from us, in their words these were some of the best that were ever built on a Ford chassis!! I’m gonna go thru the driveline,replace u-joints,give it a tune up,a head for the open road in a rig with 40,200 miles on it,just getting broke in!!
I am not sure anything is different than it ever has been. We all want to wax nostalgic about “the good old days” but after being in the industry for 25+ years I can tell you nothing has changed. What was originally built for occasional camping and light use is now being lived in- nothing they are designed or built for. I won’t speak to any one brand but in general The parts, materials and construction are exactly the same. Built mostly by minimum wage employees, pushed out the door by bean counters to meet production quotas means lots of issues after the sale.
It’s the piece rate that is killing quality and the big companies like Thor and Forrest River pushing out how many they can build in a day
I disagree that piece rate is killing the quality. Most factories are piece rate and have far fewer issues. Many service industries are piece rate and have far fewer issues. The problem is an issue with QC at the factories. They allow faulty items to be pushed out to dealers. If they handled it like other industries, the problems would be much less and likely we’d pay a bit more with fewer frustration.
We agree with this entire article 100%. We bought a brand new 22 foot travel trailer and have had nothing but problems before we ever used it and every time since the original repairs that took 3 months only to use it and have it in the shop for another 3 months. Then brought it to Fl where a cabinet door came unhinged and the kitchen faucet broke. Can’t fix it ourself because the warranty is no good for that part if something else goes wrong with it. Out of 8 months it was in the shop for 6 months while we continued to make $260.00 monthly payment. So THANK YOU for putting it out there on behalf of all of us. Quit pushing numbers for money and get back to QUALITY.
Not to beat you up. I realize it’s frustrating having stuff go wrong on a new anything, but counting on timely works from most dealers is an exercise in futility. If it’s not a major repair or a recall, I’ll fix it myself or bring a mobile tech in.
Some things never change. I bought a new RV before I retired in 2001. We looked at many, many models. Our choice, a 26′ with a slide out, was the best available. But we soon discovered the design had problems. With just the 2 of us, we travel light. Nothing in any of the holding tanks, and no “off road” travel. Yet we had the springs break on the axles – 3 times. The door, like on most trailers, could be latched open for ventilation. But if you did that, you could not open the window in the bedroom. An easy fix: change the window to a slide instead of crank operated one, or move the window 2 feet.
Then there was the slide out. While I did have problems with the mechanics, my main issue was that it blocked access to the bathroom. The slide out floor was the problem. It was a simple fix, I cut off 2″ from the bottom of the bathroom door. Simple, but why didn’t the manufacturers do that? My experience with this RV was so bad that if/when I’m ready for a new RV, I,’ll do a conversion.
I have a 2022 kz stratus. After going through it, I honestly feel like it was made in China. Sucks.
This is why we purchased a used 17′ Casita (all fiberglass shell) there is nothing on this trailer that I cannot easily fix myself. We simply do not bother with RV dealers…
YES! By FAR my favorite ownership experience came from an ’84 Sunrader (all fiberglass shell). I put 150,00 miles on it and LOVED every minute of it. THEN I decided I wanted something bigger. Two class A’s later, I’m REGRETTING every minute of it.
Just like in the overlanding segment most of the quality product come from either Australia or South Africa. The same thing will happen with the US RV market. New entrants will arrive with innovative quality products and all that will be left of the US manufacturers will be boarded up buildings.
I hate to see that but it is bound to happen…
Have owned two class A’s. I am thoroughly DISGUSTED at the complete lack of quality and workmanship. The travesty begins with lack of design and engineering. Luan and glue cannot successfully cope with moisture and the rigors of road travel. A total redesign is absolutely necessary. It’s needed to both restore this industry, but further, restore any sort of faith in American quality of manufacturing.
I read the article from September of 2021 about the lack of quality in RV building. does anyone know if the 2023 models I saw at the Hershey RV show are being built any better ?
NO RV being built right now is worth what you are going to pay for it. Better to buy a few years used, well maintained unit that someone else has worked the bugs out of already. QC does not exist in the RV industry anymore! I speak from experience having worked in said industry for a number of years, and from personal experience having had to deal with a very expensive rig that my mother recently purchased. (Yes, I tried to talk her out of it!) Dealers and manufacturers do not stand behind their products. They’re only in it for the money these days. We are suing the mfr. of my mom’s trailer under the Lemon Law. I won’t say their name, but they produce trailers/5th wheels with a model name of the Big Sky state. In years past, they were one of the better brands. Not anymore!
If the RV industry continues to use plywood of any sort, they need to upgrade to a real plywood like FinForm or similar. We’ve used it in construction for concrete forms and it can last for years even exposed to constant use/abuse, otherwise, move to a fiberglass/FRP product that is not affected by moisture. Another issue I see is that many RV’s have too many perforations in it’s shell. Although having all your connections easily accessible on the outside of the rig may be a selling point, each hole is a source of future water or air intrusion. The same applies to the roof and the underbelly.