A couple of weeks ago I wrote an article that generated quite a bit of conversation (read it here). My article was in response to a reader who commented: “I read about so many problems with today’s RVs, I wonder if I should just forget about buying one.” Many, many of you responded with equal doses of encouragement, practical advice, and realistic cautions about owning and maintaining an RV. One reader, who also happens to work on an RV production line, offered his opinion from his unique perspective. I’m happy to share his genuine observations and heartfelt feelings with you.
An introduction to the RV production line worker
Here’s how “That guy” introduced himself:
“Look, I work and live in Elkhart County, where most of these units are made.” If you didn’t already know many, many RVs are produced in the state of Indiana—in and around the town of Elkhart and Elkhart County. In fact, supplying components for the RV industry keeps several ancillary area businesses profitable, as well. Folks throughout northern Indiana have proudly worked in the RV industry and depended on it for their livelihoods for generations.
Elkhart County promotes itself as the “Recreational Vehicle Capital of the World.” According to the county’s website: “For every two RVs you see on the road, one was built in Elkhart County.” RV manufacturers have scattered all across the USA, with RVs now manufactured from Oregon to Alabama to California and more. Still, Elkhart’s economy continues to thrive with more than one-third of its jobs directly or indirectly connected to the manufacturing of RVs.
A reality check
The RV production line worker, “That guy,” continues: “You all understand that an RV is a house on wheels, right? Go move your ‘solid’ house across country and see how it would fare on these brutal roads.”
He’s got a valid point! Is it even realistic to think that a structure moving down the road at 60 mph won’t ever have an issue? Especially given the terrible conditions of our highways and even Interstate roadways. Virtually any structure—no matter how solidly constructed—will eventually experience some damage if it’s shaken, bumped, and rattled long enough, won’t it?
The production line worker sympathizes…
“That guy” understands and sympathizes with the RVer’s plight. With regard to the problems in today’s RVs, he says: “I would be upset if I put down that kind of money and ended up with issues being commonplace.” He gets it and he understands why some RVers are frustrated and disappointed.
He offers us all a bit of advice: “First of all, less will get you more. The likelihood of poor quality increases with every option you add to it. Secondly, avoid newly offered options. If it’s the first year for a new model appliance, or newly designed entertainment system, or whatever, you run the risk of being disappointed. Just like car makers, you never want year one of a new generation. Also, make sure the exterior is sealed and checked regularly. Water damage kills RVs.”
And finally . . .
Most telling in “That guy’s” comment was the following: “We get the same amount of time to build a loaded RV as we do a bare box on wheels. How much time? Never enough.”
I appreciate that this RV production line worker took the time to write and express his views. While I don’t know him personally, “That guy” seems like a hard-working, diligent guy. While he appears dedicated to his craft, he also experiences frustration at the fast pace forced into his work environment.
Does “That guy” speak for all RV manufacturer line workers? Maybe not. But are his comments worth considering? I think so. What do you think?
##RVT1040
I think everyone understands that ‘stuff’ will break as the result of road or movement damage.
The issue is crap that breaks or is broken
or never ever worked, from the factory!.. “that guy” never addressed that. He did state that the ‘company’ never gives enough time to build a quality product.
I think we knew that…
Move along, nothing to see here.
The issue is “shoddy workmanship” when they are being assembled. Screws on the bottom of the bunk over the cab of our Class C, that were supposed to secure the outer skin to the framework, that were not attached to the frame but behind it! Parts of the framework that were not long enough to reach the other, connecting part of the frame. Taking a connecting trim clip off on the outside of the Bunk over the cab and being able to see outside from inside on the bunk. These things have nothing to do with driving down a road but rather the way they were built. So to this technician, I say: Do a better job. Be conscientious! In other words, I call BS!
I agree with “That Guy” in that the manufacturers probably don’t have or give enough time to build a top quality product anymore especially now while the RV market is red hot. I also agree that these things experience earthquake type conditions as we tow or drive them down the road. I believe what’s really broke is the customer service piece! We purchased our rig based on several factors but one of the big ones was the company’s reputation and the reviews praising customer service. I’ve have to say that our first experience with customer service was outstanding but since it’s not been very positive. Our last experience was only resolved by taking to social media.
I guess my point is that the RV manufacturers are seeing $$$$ right now and skimping on everything else. It will get better but not until the market is saturated with used RV that people no longer want.
Workers are given as much time as they want to build these things. The problem is that they are paid by the piece, not by the time involved. Cutting corners and rushing the job are a natural by-product of this type of environment. Team leads and supervisors push to move the rigs down the line, as everyone is paid for the pieces completed by the end of the day.
Until that issue is addressed, I have little hope that anything will change. So long as customers continue to buy what is offered, there is no incentive to change anything. It’s all in the hands of the customer and the laws of supply and demand. So long as the demand (paying customers, willing to accept poor workmanship, parts, etc.), is there, the companies will fill it.
A change is a comin’. Courtesy of printing five trillion dollars in the last year. Buckle up!
I agree. They staple everything so fast, they miss a huge amount. The price people pay for RV’s nowadays for what they get is criminal. And, the Industry has more attorneys protecting them from Lemon Laws, and offer no real credible warranty. Also, I wonder if those who build these actually own one?! I came from a long history of Automotive repairs and I’ve never seen such shotty assembly and reduction in “Pride in what we do”!. I wouldn’t be able to sleep at night!
Ran I agree with you. I see so much poor workmanship with my unit that I would not purchase another RV😡
So I get that there are valid points traveling with them BUT…..my wife and I bought a beautiful 2021 Sporttrek Tourind Edition to go in to a wonderful part of Ontario near Wesport. We were so excited to get it to the park. I went up through the week to work on the decks and I came in to charge my cell at a neat charging cupboard just inside the side door when I opened it the door came right off. The screws were too small and stripped in the thin wall. I used larger screws and fixed it.No screen in the back side window. Why? Because the frame was spot welded badly and warped. Then there was the 4 blinds that wouldn’t stay up. I had to move the plastic dowels and when I did it had 2 previous holes drilled Then there was a 3/4″ drop at the back of the kitchen floor that at first the Manufacturer KZ said was not covered under warranty as it was structural. The Bedroom floor the same. We all know about the propane regulator issue cause they are cheap. Took a year to straighten it up.
Jack, you’re a better man for it. Carry on.
You deserve better than that rolling hunk of headaches ( I could use spicier condiments to describe it but won’t ). Did the dealer ever make good on their promises? Was there any accountability on the part of the manufacturer?
I would appreciate a list of which models to avoid either new or used.
Suzanne, let me suggest if your thinking of buying, find someone you know, who has been an owner, fixer for sometime, and pick his brain. Keep your powder dry in the short term, fkr there is a major price correction comming to this industry. As the economy begins to contract, “toys” are at the head of the line, to correct.
A high turnover rate of inexperienced street corner hired help only adds to the problem. I remember literally seeing “now hiring” posters on the streets in Middlebury, Goshen and other communities while passing through the area.
I see help wanted signs everywhere I go in Southern Indiana . I know first hand after owning a small business for 32 years and am now down to one production employee. I don;t want to hear you don’t pay them enough or pay benefits, we do and now we are closing on a sale as we are out of business because the current Regime pays people to stay home.
While I understand what manufacturers and particularly line workers are up against, with a lack of good workforce to do the job, they are still cranking out less than complete, not to original spec, poorly put together units with missing parts or cheap substitution parts and appliances.
All this while charging more than ever for these products.
Yes, many (most?) RVers pull their rigs too fast (because they can, of course) and then blame the manufacturer for a trim piece falling off or a glass window or door shattering.
That shouldn’t deflect from the real issue of overpriced, unfinished or shoddily finished units being pushed out and in many cases to make it worse, into the hands of brand new RVers who think it’s normal and acceptable.
We own and drive a 2019 ThOr Chateau. All in all it’s been a good, reliable motorhome. We’ve had some minor issues with it, nothing serious. Here’s how I look at it. Just like the worker said, everytime you take to the road, your EV experiences an earthquake and a hurricane. When you put it in that perspective, I think they’re built quite well.
The house on wheels argument has been used for, minimally, 15 years. About the same time that most of the manufacturers have been on a continuous plan of degradation. Instead of continuous improvement. I could accept that argument as a valid excuse for the typical lack of workmanship. Quality is not a consideration. It’s a fortunate customer that experience workmanship . This is evident in the mess & treasure trove of hardware that is often left behind walls, missing fasteners, fasteners that are not performing a function, Electrical wiring and plumbing that were never properly connected or attached.
This may not be true of all manufacturers, but you will, likely, have to go to a significantly higher priced unit in order to be pleasantly surprised.
Instead of excuses, hearing about a manufacturer that has a documented Quality Program, with metrics, that are reviewed frequently, would likely have customers flocking to that manufacturer.
I get so tired of hearing the comment, “An RV is a house on wheels” It’s not! And isn’t built like a house. I’m sure an rv is designed for its intended use to be hauled up and down our highways. And Yes, there will be maintenance needs to repair certain items that shake loose from the bumps in the roads.
I especially hate to hear that comment from a dealer or repair facility when used as an excuse’ as to why they they are having to or can’t repair an issue with your rv. When in fact, the repair is usually due to an incorrect assembly or just a poor quality part that is used.
I agree. My 2014 Coleman LT has over 10,000 miles of weekend trips on it and hasn’t had any problems related to being driven. But I did have a seat back break due to a large knot that went across almost the entire 2″ width of a 1×2 supporting the seat back.
There’s the problem and main issue, “How much time? Never enough.” Greed before quality and safety. “That guy” basically is condoning this practice of poor quality. I’m not going to sympathize or give that guy a pat on the back for speaking with you. That’s like giving him/her another bullet to shoot you after missing the first time.
You could say that about everything ever built. Car, house, RV, watch, rocket, basically anything manufactured. I ran QA for several different companies from composite manufacturing to sporting goods to satellite communications. It was the same everywhere, never enough time to do it right but always time to do it over.
In discussing this issue with my current repair shop owner, which has spent 20 years in the industry, it comes from the top. All the big three manufacturers care about is pushing the units out the door and $$$$$$. These are the same corporations which have reported record profits. Maybe they should have to pay back the largest tax break given ever in 2017.
Our first RV was a 2011 Forest River R Pod RP 172 and the quality and fit and finish was impeccable. We sold it and bought a new 2018 Palomino Real-Lite RL181 because being 6 inches wider and one foot longer it had a dry bath, walk around Queen bed and a single slide with a sofa/folding small bed. I had a couple of simple fixes, a crooked window treatment over the sink and the shower drain trap had a slight leak due to a sliver of PCV on the threaded collar. That was it. Off we went.
Gail, thats why i enjoy this blog. Right from the horses mouth, and just giving knowledgeable advice. The problems with build quality/reliability is what “the guy” mentions. But, the customer gets mesmerized by all the bells and whistles. Its a never ending struggle. If you have any mechanical knowledge, you just cringe at some of the units, as you walk through an RV show, and know thats not going to end well.
I am personally amazed at whats on-board, moving along the road at 65 mph, keeping your food cold, warm at night, etc. But thats just how i approach things. Im sure a few readers here know the “other guys”, who get schooled when their unit is sitting in the shop for half the summer, undergoing “warranty” repairs.
This whole thing will explode soon, as the number of units sold is through the roof. Wait times to get repairs skyrockets, and the lure of camping becomes a huge headache, because campgrounds are filled up. Not even mentioning fuel costs heading skyward.
Remember, not too long ago, when US manufactured cars had similar quality problems? When a car or truck was pretty much ready for the junk yard at 100,000 miles? What changed? Application of basic quality controls, starting with designing in quality. Boats are a good example. Some are designed to look great in dealer showrooms which isn’t necessarily the same as seaworthy and weather tight. When RV shopping look past the eye candy to find true value and remember this one rule; You never want to be the last owner.
Domestic auto manufacturers were forced to improve the quality of their products by the arrival to the market of Toyota and Honda, whose quality control measures were developed under the guidance of an American statistician, W. Edwards Deming. If you can not, or are not, measuring the quality of production units they can not be improved.
Mr. Deming tried first to educate the American Auto Industry, but he was told to pound sand. The [Japanese] however, were trying to get their industries back on line, after we bombed them into submission, for former aggressions against us. They welcomed Mr. Deming, introduced his mfg. Style and subsequently started to produce, and still do, some of the most reliable automobiles in the world.
Not many people know the story, about an American who tried to smarten up his fellow countrymen first, but was told to get lost, because they knew more than him.
If it’s worth doing, do it right. The quality of your product will allow you to get what you ask for it. Don’t lower your standards to some idiot who can’t afford it.
We’ve spent thousands of dollars repairing our 2016 Fleetwood motor home because of missing bolts holding the body to the frame among other build problems. Poor workmanship and no oversight. I’m sure that the workmen have unrealistic quotas to fill if they want to keep their jobs and the executives only care about profits. With the huge demand for RVs caused by the Covid RVs things won’t get better.
Missing bolts — Could they have fallen off because of your unit “moving down the road at 60 mph”? If so it’s a design problem in not specifying an appropriate fastener, not a line workers fault who uses what is provided.
My brand new Montana 5th wheel had loose axle bolts when I picked it up. Design fault? NO! Not being installed/tightened properly at the factory? YES!
Dear Line Worker; raise your hand and say “excuse me boss, but these bolts just dont seem right for this application, they sure seem like they might not hold properly”. Now, in reality; spend an afternoon going all over your rig, looking for those SHTF issues. You would be amazed on how many loose nuts, etc., you will find from time to time.
While most of us appreciate the workers comments. It’s not the older units we have a concern about. It’s the new units that are less than a year old and not used on the road much in that year. Woodwork nailed with brads without glue. Electric wires that look like spaghetti coming out of the boiling pot. Poor caulking jobs. My 2021Jayco patio door built in May 2020 was installed wrong and the screen would occasionally fly off when opened.I can go on and on. It’s not that much more expensive to do the job right. What also gets me is in Pa they brag about superior quality with products built by the Amish. Than we see the issues with RV’s built in Indiana.
When my wife and I started shopping used class A’s 15 years ago without knowing squat about RV’s we both realized sometimes more is less, or, more problems to arise. Buying our second rig, used, the salesman kept talking about full body paint. I told him although rigs with the scheme do look nicer, they won’t help me enjoy my campfire any better or move me down the road any quicker and smoother. As we moved up to a DP, yes it has beautiful full body paint, we did not look for AquaHot or ceramic tile floors and counters. To me, that meant “to fix” and weight. A campground we stayed at in Deadwood, SD had a full-time on-the-ground AquaHot truck on call. Sometimes we get what we ask for.
New Jayco Eagle HT 25.5 reok in Jan 2021. Shopped for year to find the perfect rv and found it! Nothing but major electrical issues for a year. Last visit to dealer in December. Boondocked in Quartzite in Jan, left headed to Tucson, on I10 saw smoke. Pulled over and flames shooting out front compartment. Propane was off. Total loss, lost everything. Even 2020 Ram 2500. We’re devastated and out 10s of thousands $$$$.
Wow! Horrible story. So sorry Richard.
Contact the insurance specialists that specialize on documenting every thing relating to the loss. They take a percentage, but ive been told in the long run, they do good work, and are a buffer from the slime ball adjusters who will beat you up.
I appreciate what he is saying about a house going down the road at 60 mph but as the owner of a 2022 diesel pusher that cost hundreds of thousands of dollars, my concern isn’t with ongoing maintenance but initial build quality/quality control. His comments about how long they get to assemble a coach is interesting and could be a reason why there are so many warranty issues. To top it off, manufacturers won’t pay the full cost of warranty repairs leaving us to shell out thousands of dollars to fix their mistakes.
The production line worker sounded like a spokesperson for the Elkhart Chamber of Commerce. We are paying far more for the square footage of the house on wheels than on a sticks and bricks.
Sounds to me like “that guy” dispenses the same old tired excuse used by the RV industry of a house being driven down the road, rather than they’re being built so poorly and quickly that RVs are literally defective as they roll off the production floor. Private aircraft, most boats, semi tractors are all subject to extreme stress during operation, yet I’ve never heard a warning about their use because it could lead to their failure. I understand that the line worker building RVs can only do, as good of a job, as they are instructed by management. Our government has a “hands off” approach when it comes to regulations or standards for the RV industry. Rather the industry self regulates with organizations such as RVIA and FMCA, which literally are only lobbyists for this industry. Many RV owners perpetuate the manufacturer’s lack of concern over the poor quality of RVs being built by simply accepting that “after all it’s an RV and they all have problems”. Don’t buy and they’ll improve.
I believe you mean RVIA (Recreational Vehicle Industry Association) and RVDA (Recreational Vehicle Dealers Association) which represent the RV industry. FMCA (Family Motor Coach Association) is an organization (club if you will) for Recreational Vehicle owners that are members.
His last comment said it all. They don’t have enough time allotted to the workers to build an RV with the type of quality we would like to see. They put profits first. Even just stapling upholstery around the windows. My first RV must’ve had 100 staples in it at one, and trim was falling off from the lack of secure stapling. I have even had to rewire some outlets, because the pinch wire didn’t provide a secure enough connection for things to work correctly. There will be less issues with a house on wheels going down the road if connections are secure, and things are attached tightly. If the RV industry wants to get a better name, it needs to slow down just a little bit for the sake of quality. I like the suggestion to get a bare-bones RV. It will allow me to upgrade on my own with after market parts, and take the time to do the work myself, to a level of quality I am happy with. I realize not everybody can do that, so they are at the mercy of the RV industry.
The biggest problem is that most of line workers have a quota to do. No time to do it right just fast. There is very, very few that take time for quality.
The problems in the industry are no secret. From top management down to the consumer, we all know they exist. We bought our 2022 Tiffin knowing that we would probably experience problems and we are. We really wanted this motorhome and there will be costs to us to get it fixed even under warranty. The solution may be if we all quit buying and force better quality from the producers. That’s not going to happen and I am just as guilty as charged.
I think Camping World sales people are trained to mention, “RV’s experience what amounts to an earthquake and a hurricane everytime they go down the road”. I got that line from a sleazy sales guy at a CW in Colorado. I looked him right in the eye and responded “So you’re warning me if I buy one of your products it’ll shake apart when I tow it down the road?” He didn’t like that. I walked.
Wow…touched a hot button with this article. just remember ‘the fish stinks from the head down’.
More stuff, less time to assemble per unit. Moving from Class A to C helped me. From hauling a “toad” pickup behind the A, to zipping around in a “pickup with box attached” allows me to backup when needed. Reducing total length from 50+ feet to 25 feet cut my parking space in half! Going from a $180,000 rig to a $60,000 rig cut my initial outlay of funds. Eliminating jacks, slides, hydraulics, many electronics, etc… reduced my returning to factory from six time to zero! Less bays to lock, connections to make, adjustments in leveling has helped save time. I haven’t hooked up my sewer hose nor water hose at a campground in 20+ years! Fill and dump when necessary, park where I want, turn around with ease and pull into a drive-in burger place! Now that is freedom, in spite of the fact that I drive one of the “cheap, poorly made, factory-assembled rigs” that we all complain about. Keep it simple, and no need to complain! A safe traveler with S*M*A*R*T groups.
I appreciate him taking the time to share some insight from the “floor” of the industry. I do believe the “excuse” of “a house on wheels” has been accepted for far too long. I compare the build quality of the RV with that of aircraft I have owned. Both were in the same price range. Both are subject to extreme stressors of wind, rain, bumps, shakes and twists. Yet the aircraft if of the same quality build as the RV would not be allowed on the market or if allowed not considered by the aircraft user. It is a matter of engineering and design, care and craftsmanship, and inspection and approval. RV owners for whatever reason accept the idea of we will fix it later or good enough for now. Aircraft owners know that approach can be fatal. As RV purchasers and owners we have the right to expect better and not accept less.
It is not the fault of the RV builder but the fault of the purchaser for accepting poor quality and excuses. Of course it goes down a rough windy road. Build it right.
Agreed! Although as long as they’re selling and there’s no regulation there’s very little to motivate change. I think a large part of the problem is ignorant buyers, myself included. Some hard lessons have been learned. I would bet most RV buyers have no idea the unit can become deadly. It seems difficult to get an objective opinion on who’s building better. Most of what we hear is that they’re all the same, just buy the floorplan that suits you best and hope for the best.. I don’t know if there’s a source that evaluates and compares builds and engineering. I agree though, Just Build it Right.. please
Interesting comment about aircraft. But, Pilots are trained and licenses, Aircraft have annual inspections. If RV owner / drivers had this kind of requirement, it would be a different game. The other point is RV’s ARE a house on wheels in a hurricane and roads are terrible. But we still go! Not the same as pilots. We have restrictions. So this is not a great comparison.
I once had the opportunity to speak personally with a vise-president of Holiday Rambler in 2007+/-. He gave me the same cookie-cutter answers. “Driving your house down the road”. I asked him, “Didn’t you design this to go down the road?” He went silent. I offered that I buy a car, change the oil, and it lasts beyond 10 years. He stated if they built RVs as well as cars, we couldn’t afford them. I told him if Japan ever realized the profit margin on RVs he’d be out of business in 6 months.
I found at that time a $250K motor home had $50K of warranty work figured in the MSRP. Add to this you start negotiating purchase price at 60-65% of MSRP. This adds up to plain greed(Read Corp. profits) driving poor quality.
RVTravel once interviewed the CEO of Thor about poor quality. He said he didn’t care as long as product sells. So there!
I don’t even look at Thor products when looking for an RV. They have some great floorplans and some good interior designs, but I just know the build quality isn’t there.
And that was back when HR’s were built well! I’ve heard that REV now builds them horribly. I like how Country Coach dealt with QC. Workers had to write their name on every part of the coach that they personally installed. When the coach came back for a warranty item, the employee was called up to the office over the loud speaker so all the other employees knew who had screwed up. Apparently the walk of shame was something to be avoided at all costs, so you made sure your stuff was installed properly the first time.
I did quality control at military level to food quality service and QC DMR lasers. I know the first wasn’t about some much time spent in QC but getting quality service and meeting all quality requirements The latter was the insurance in quality met in food service more intense with all foods expirations, cook times and on. Then did DMR reporting in the laser field. It appears there really is not a QC program in place at any RV manufacturers. More of a complaints office sending a post it note to some line work that gets tossed in the trash and life goes on. “that guys” is not sympathetic he’s empathetic only two different words two different meanings.
As long as demand continues to exceed supply, the mfrs have no reason to improve. Blogs, YouTube videos, etc. sensationalizing travel and RV life got me into this lifestyle a few years ago… along with everyone else. Demand went up, so prices increased and quality decreased. (Not to mention our campgrounds, public lands, and other camping/overnight areas have been swarmed, but that’s another story.) Back on point, as a business decision, if people continue stand in line for months to buy the product regardless of quality, what motivation does the manufacturer have to improve? And with Thor, etc. buying out its competitors, what motivation do they have to improve quality of any one line of RVs? I’m excited about some of the newcomers–some new independents are making some really interesting units that seem to have potentially high quality. You’re paying for it, but I would rather pay twice as much for something that works reliably, rather than pay less for something I can’t use.
Spot on Jake. I might add, those who are not handy, will get frustrated, and either keep it parked in their driveway, or off load the junk box during the coming down turn. Bargains await, those with the skills and the cash!
I realize component failures are a part of the issues with especially newer units,most of the issues I understand come from poor quality workmanship.
That in itself comes from in part from the worker saying they get similar times for a basic vs a loaded unit.
The other quality issues is basically a tit for tat between employers not having any respect for their employees and employees in return not respecting their employers or the quality of work they do.
Lastly the fact of so little good qualified workers and a great number of jobs makes for a bad situation.
Companies will not get quality workers or keep workers that may get to be quality workers eventually because it’s all about the almighty profit, and they put profits before quality and looking after workers that are capable of doing better work, but they do not care to do better because the company they work for cares only about money.
I worked for a company for years and I saw the results of operating like this
I agree that our units should be built to handle the stresses of travel, but comparing them to the construction methods of an airplane is a little over the top. Most RV buyers would suffer heart failure at the cost of purchasing and maintaining an aircraft. Expecting the same quality without the same cost is unrealistic. We have purchased three different new DP’s, all over 40’, in the past 10 years. We have had some issues on them but very few that would have been easily caught by better QC – and those were on the first. The quality has improved with each purchase. In addition, every problem that developed prior to the warranty expiration, and a few that occurred after warranty expiration, were fully covered by the manufacturer. Bolts that were tight can loosen, electrical connections can loosen, AquaHot’s need annual service. It’s called maintenance. There are good manufacturers out there. Stop purchasing from the bad ones and watch the quality of the industry start to improve.
Which do you consider the good ones? Just wondering which brand you’ve had such good success with.
I have owned 6 rv’s in the last 30 years. All developed water leaks. Just think what happens once the water gets in the roof and walls ? I would never own a wood framed rv again my life. Dry rot have killed many a RV…. I got lucky and now have a 2006 Bigfoot fiberglass foam filled walls, floor and ceiling. Aluminum is another good option.
Ever see delaminating walls where water infiltrates and causes the glue to unbind?
I had a 2002 Newmar Mountain Aire bought in 2017, there was very little wrong with that other than what the dealer pulled on me. At 15 years old and 62K miles I thought it was amazing. If you want quality you have to get up high off your wallet. I wouldn’t hesitate to buy another one today, and anytime I had a question customer service was a phone call away with the answer. There are quality manufacturers out there but they’re few and far between. I don’t know about today since they were bought by Winnebago but Winnebago was a quality manufacturer so maybe they’ll be OK.
So, I just googled what it costs to buy and operate an airplane. Yes, private jets are expensive, but private propeller planes are very much in the same cost range as motorhomes, and at the low end at that. The difference is that they aren’t built with all the household appliances, and the inspection, operating, and maintenance requirements are rigorous and strictly enforced.
And because they fall out of the sky when something goes wrong they are regulated heavier than cars. You may work on your own plane but before it flies it has to be inspected by a certified technician.
We drive a 2020 Motorhome and so far we have good luck with the Freightliner system and the actual build of the motorhome with only a few small build issues. I will not name the manufacture however it is a major brand known for their quality of work. But…… it’s the bolt on pieces that are common with most every new motorhome being built 1 air conditioner went bad, the toilet broke needing new controls (lucky we have a bath and a half), motorized shades stopped working, fireplace stopped heating, awning motor stopped working, microwave/induction oven needed replacement. These items make the manufacture look bad, they did live up and paid for the repair work and parts for most of everything except for the microwave. I’m not sure of the county of origin for all of these items however I suspect it may be China.
Thanks to NAFTA and the Clinton era 95% off everything is made in China.
Exactly. But raising a valid point, causes the lunitic left to not face the huge mistake NAFTA created.
More Trump misinformation. While Clinton was a big NAFTA supporter, in 1993, a large percentage of Republicans in Congress supported it, too. In 1993, 75 percent of Republicans in the US House and 77 percent in the Senate voted to ratify NAFTA (40 percent and 49 percent of Democrats voted for it).
since then, the Dems have turned into liberals, and the Repubs have turned into old Democrats. Had someone fromEurope ask me what the defination of “liberal” was… they thot it still meant someone willing to look at 2 sides of something. Nope, not anymore. politics is weird..
Tell your european friend to look at Germany, France, Spain as an example. They have different names for their govts.
You know when the liberals have lost it when you see that dye in the wool Bill Mahar getting all worked up, on how liberals have turned communists.
Carol, your mistaken when you mention the prior president. You need to stay on topic, rather than spewing misinformation and scatter shot to the recent president. Your reference to the prior president is telling of just how misguded your reply is.
Historically referring to the republican party being on board when Willy signed it into law is correct. But your mistaken when you bring it to the past president. It just shows your not a student of the facts.
Fear not, for the bath the lunitic liberals are going to take in 2022,24 will no doubt drive you guys out of your minds, and increase viewership at CNN.
YES!!
The bottom line, whose signature is on NAFTA? It is Clinton’s. It is a treaty. He did not have to sign it but he did.
I can Sympathize with the mechanic. As a retired mechanic most companies want production with the least amount of time. Get it out the door. Quantity not quality.
Quality and Quantity are 2 completely different concepts. Why- because profit is in the middle between them.
Profit is issue number 1.
I disagree with the “it’s like house in an earthquake with hurricane force winds” description of RVs. Yes, if it’s not designed for road worthiness, it will fail. My daily driver cars that I’ve owned are typically 8-10 years old when I buy them and I run ’em for years. I don’t see plastic parts on cars turning yellow, paint peeling off, doors not working, etc. after decades of use in the rust belt.
You may need to visit an eye Dr., if your headlights aren’t yellowing after the first 3 years, or your paint isn’t peeling and you live in the rust belt, your vision is failing. Lol
My 2003 (20 y o) Honda CRV has headlights that could pass for new. Absolutely no rust on the body either.it’s a Wisconsin car. Take care of things. They’ll take care of you , and your wallet
Very valid point indeed. This is why my next RV will have fewer features/complications than my present one. No slides. No built-in sound system (Bluetooth speaker, yes). But just a very substantial structure and no wood on the interior build either. Sort of like the vehicle that tows it.
If RVs had Lemon Laws uniformly applied to them, the builders WOULD make better built RVs. For the life of me, I cannot fathom how NOT performing proper Quality Control checks on ALL units BEFORE they leave the factory ultimately saves them money. It has to be insanely expensive to bring back a unit to remedy an issue than, had a proper QC check been done, would have been caught and attended to. If employees will not / can not build a quality unit. they should NOT be on the line. Retrain them or fire them. When they routinely do excellent work, they should receive a bonus.
I will agree with “That Guy” about production lines, I worked in the automobile industry for thirty years, only during the last 10-12 years (‘87-‘99) did I see assembly lines stop to fix a problem. Prior to that the “attitude” was the “dealer” will fix it. I guess the RV industry hasn’t advanced far enough to accept the fact that the dealer won’t find it until after it’s sold and the customer is upset.
The build quality got so bad, they had to listen to the line workers. Deming tried to teach that decades ago, but the suits knew better.
One of the most frustrating components of all this is the problem with after purchase service. We bought ours last year and twice I tried to reach out to the dealer for assistance with a concern without help. I had an actual appointment that couldn’t be honored by the dealer in the Fall and is just going in again finally next month……or so I think. This is a dealer that was recommended to us because they HAD a good reputation. I’m finding these experiences are commonplace. I believe the lack of service available will eventually lead to a drop in rv sales.
That is a product of the doubling of unit sales. The wait times for warranty repairs just became unmanagable, and there is no solution.
Get use to it, with more articles in the future adressing the enormous problems coming. If the industry cared, they would reimburse outside repair services, but they dont care, because they have to manage costs, through their dealership network.
RV manufacturers will not shift their priorities from production to quality unless they are forced to. Think back to American made cars, and it wasn’t until competition from lower priced, quality-built foreign makes forced the Big 3 automakers to focus on quality. They transformed their factories using robots, Six Sigma and Lean manufacturing techniques. The result is today most American made cars are quality built.
Not all foreign cars are “quality” vehicles. Think Fiat, Range Rover, Mitsubishi, Jaguar: they are all shop-dwellers. My biggest lemon in 50 years of car ownership, by far, was a Nissan. What is really needed for RV’s is a better set of safety standards with objective parameters so failures can be punished in some way. Unfortunately, safety always increases costs. Even the introduction of seatbelts in the early 60’s was opposed on a cost basis. Initially they were only installed for the front seat with rear belts being an extra-cost option.I’d love to see structural wood and all propane out of RV’s. Go either all-electric or use diesel heaters/hot water. Less “tinder” and no chance of an explosion.
You Too can build an RV in 7 Hours!…It’s no mystery why they are all “Some Level of Crapola”..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLHux4SuXbY
Wow…interesting video! I am surprised that we don’t have more issues
Of course it can be done in that time with automation, sections already built and completed and an assembly line…that’s how cars are manufactured. You need to go into buying an RV with eyes wide open and lots of research…..there is so much research available today that there should little reason that “I did not know”.
I have owned 5 tents, 2 pop-ups, 2 tow behinds and now a super B motorhome over the last 50 years. Experience has taught me a few things. Considering all the problems of a NEW auto AND all the problems of a NEW trailer rolled up into a motorhome will make first year ownership a nightmare. Considering the warranty repairs needing parts being put onto new units currently in production, and the shared labor in the shop between warranty and COD service, it is no surprise that the first year of ownership is likely to be enjoyed in the parking lot of your dealer with parts delays and scheduling issues instead of the great blue yonder. While some brands are better than others, they all create this same first year experience. That’s why I PREFERRED a used unit when I shopped. And I was not sorry. My maintenance problems come one at a time and can be managed after my forays on vacation. The first owner of my rig had to endure the frustrations at the dealer’s service center for his NEW.
I agree completely, not only have the major “awsh**s” been taken care of but the biggest hit on depreciation has been absorbed by the first owner. With all the RV’s that have been bought by newbies that didn’t know what they were getting into and now are for sale, there should be plenty of lightly used RV’s on the market.
Albeit with problems they didn’t even know they had.
It is stupid to say less is more….you pay for it so get it ….we got some extras on our 5er one didn’t work and another was not even put in….sure they go down the road BUT if the work is not done or NO caulking in areas that is crap work by the manufacturer….NOTHING to do with going down the road….we finally got what we wanted but it was not pleasant….dealer lost several sales and shop related business ….cost them way more in the long run….I worked at a place where u had so much time to do something and never could do it so I said lets see YOU do it….I was fired….go figure…..found out no one ever did do it….I went down the road…went on to better things….
How about a three year warranty…that would automatically improve quality. When we bought our 2020 we took off for a month and all the problems showed up. If possible you need to use the rig a lot the first year. You will have issues no matter how much you spend.
He lost all credibility with the “Going down the road” position. The main purpose of the RV is to “Go down the road”. Failure to provide this function is unsupportable. I personally spoke to a VP w/Holiday Rambler who used this phrase. I laughed in his face. He was shocked. He then told me if the industry built RVs to the reliability level of cars, we couldn’t afford them.
It’s ALWAYS about money.
People talk smack about manufactured and modular homes but they have already withstood a hurricane rolling down the road. I’d like to see some of the site built homes being thrown together today do that!
RVs do that also but for much longer periods of time. My TT has almost 20k miles on it and is holding up really well. It is from a small manufacturer that was known for its quality (before Thor bought them out).
Interesting comments and the stray into politics then out. But with all said the two mentioned I thought were spot on. Quality control and the standards that should be during and after build, then the next of a 3-4 year warranty like an auto for example and lemon laws apply. I do understand there will be maintenance continually while in ownership and that is true with all items motor/manual powered. And there is just as much maintenance on a stick and brick from once ownership is taken and there just as many shoddy builders as well. But it appears we have built that type of society and nurture it to failure is a new standard. I bless the older RVers along the way that have given great advise/suggestions on fixes and where those parts can be located. Amazing how many are plumbers/carpenters/electricians/mechanics and the list goes on. It’s like building your own self help center. So Please pass on the knowledge and let’s go RVing.
Thank you, Gail! Yep, I get what he’s (she’s?) saying. We have had extremely good fortune with both our RV’s. We made 48,000 in 5 years with our first, a 43′ DP. After trading it, we have gotten 16,000 miles in the last year in our 36′ DP. The first was manufactured under the American Coach brand of the REV Group. The second is manufactured under the Newmar brand of Winnebago. Maybe they made/make a higher quality product than some.