I’ve often wondered about RV designers and some of their decisions. If you could talk to an RV designer, what suggestions would you make?
2024 models
My husband and I recently toured several 2024 RVs and while I liked the brighter wood stains and paint colors, there were other things that just didn’t make good sense to me. Read on and see if you agree.
Microwave placement
First, let me say that I’m not a short person. I’m not overly tall, but I think 5’6” is about average for a woman. My husband is just shy of six feet tall, and he even had doubts about the microwave placement in one unit we toured. This picture of me says it all.
Who wants to take a hot bowl of soup out of this microwave? Not me! I’d rather give up some countertop space for a microwave oven than have to stretch in order to insert or retrieve food while standing on tiptoes.
Oven ignition
We saw some nice RV ovens on our tour, but all of them had the same common problem: no auto-ignition pilot light. You still have to be somewhat of a contortionist to light the oven’s pilot light in the 2024 models we saw. Yep, they require getting down on the floor with a flashlight to find and light the pilot. If an RV designer actually lived in an RV for a while and had to use the equipment, they’d quickly add an auto-igniter to the oven. If I could talk to an RV designer, I’d surely suggest this!
Dinette bench without storage
I’ll give the RV designers the benefit of the doubt with this storage issue. Perhaps designers fear RVers might overload their rigs. I can’t think of any other reason for not taking advantage of the many “hidey holes” I saw in some of the rigs we toured.
If the RV features a dinette bench, it just makes sense to make the area inside the bench accessible so that it can be used for storage. Ditto for the panel underneath the refrigerator, where a drawer would have easily fit; or the built-in sofa table that might well have included a hinged door so that an RVer could access the empty interior space.
Low black tank drain
We also saw potential problems with some RV exteriors. One of the most noticeable was the low-slung black tank drainpipe. Sitting at only four inches off the ground, we wondered how long it would take for the pipe to break off on some of the rough roads we’ve traveled. Yipes!
Awnings
A few of the awnings we saw seemed to be mounted in the wrong place. Why else would the awning stop just shy of the entry door instead of extending it enough to cover it?
What would your suggestions be for an RV designer?
I realize that everyone has their own idea of how an RV should be designed. As a friend once told us, “There is no perfect RV.” However, if I could talk to an RV designer, I’d make a few suggestions.
If you could talk to an RV designer and make suggestions, what would you ask for? Please leave a comment below. I look forward to reading your thoughts and ideas.
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We just traded up to a 2015 Dutch Star 4369. Our 2005 Dutch Star had room beside the bed with a little shelf on each side, inside the slide out, and an electric outlet. That gave me room to easily reach into the overhead cabinet, and I could reach the head of the mattress easily, as well as the cabinet beside the bed was a useable width, and the little shelf had room for my alarm, phone, and nightcap/water glass. The new one doesn’t have those features which makes it difficult to use the cabinets or make the bed, and the electric outlet is under the bed where it is hard to reach, particularly with the narrow space beside the bed.
On the other hand, there is way more room in the bathroom.
Incinerator toilet in them so much better
I would suggest pull out drawers for all the spaces of a pantry. We have a skinny pantry next to our fridge which is fine because it’s deep (flashlight anyone?) but only the bottom 2 levels have pullouts. It needs another. And talk about wasted space… the top section is too high for me (‘m 5’7″) – so dh has to get out whatever is back there or I use a step ladder. Things get put in there and are shoved to the back.
Also, the cabinets in the bathroom above the mirror. We keep cafe rods on each shelf due to things falling out all the time – even when we’re NOT moving.
I realize these are little things but they should seem obvious to those who design RVs.
Put tank gauges out in compartment where you dump tanks
Yes, this! We have said that numerous times.
I was going to say the same thing. When I reset the bypass valve to put water into the fresh water tank I have to go inside and watch the gauge. Generally, I don’t want to fill it completely full unless water won’t be available at the next stop. I would also like to see actual level, not 1/3, 2/3 and full.
I don’t know about newer Class A, but the placement of the TVs always confused me. I don’t want to sit on a couch and have to turn my head to watch a TV. My neck would kill me. I don’t plan to be sitting watching a TV all the time while traveling, but even in those times when we decide to watch a movie on a rainy day – the placement of the TV is awkward at best.
Designers should have to live 30 days full time in each of their designs to see if it’s practical and useful
Make everything accessible all the time.
Adding pull-out shelving in the deep cabinets. Having to pull out 3 baskets to get to the 4th is a pain.
It’s more than just the RV designers, it’s the manufactures of the equipment that is available to put into the RV. Yes, household ovens and gas ranges have auto ignition, but are they available for RVs? Does anybody even make one? That’s where I would start with the people who designed the equipment and have them improve it so it’s household quality.
We have one in our Rockwood Mini Lite 2205s. But it’s not the best designed one. You have to turn it clockwise to get the ignition light, if you accidentally turn it counterclockwise you break it and render it useless. Why not just make it with a simple stop mechanism to keep from turning it counterclockwise? Our solution was to put giant red arrows on the knob. So far, so good.
Yeah T. my last one was a Furrion, and it was an auto ignition for the oven. My new toy hauler now has an oven that is actually an air fryer oven made by Suburban, which I prefer! Don’t have to lug around my Cosori anymore.
Get a clue, listen and build what people want. One of the many problems is no designer listens. If they feel good about what they build, give customers a 90 day no questions asked, free return policy! Another pet peeve of mine is not having the main windows/visual on the passenger side of the RV where all (most) campsites are located, to be able to enjoy your family view outside without blockage of cabinets etc. Of course, all these ideas among others, will fall on deaf ears! It’s all about the mighty dollar, and hiring designers and builders at poverty level wages. People want a good deal, but they want quality first! I’ll stop wanking here. Have a good Sunday!
We can only hope this survey with priceless information gets sent to all manufacturers. PLEASE
Design? How about insuring the build of each RV/TT. You can design it anyway you want but if it’s in the shop or breaking, falling apart, what good is it(design wise). Though microwave placement IMO is # one.
The automatic ignition for the oven is a great idea! That would help us old folks tremendously.
Most people don’t ever use the oven, DW says she’s on vacation, she doesn’t even want to cook but she does. God bless her! The last time I saw my late wife use the oven was in 1993. Lol
Stand up in the shower and use it. Many shower heads are at shoulder height.
Twin beds!
Our 2018 LondonAire kitchen cabinets come out even with the counter making it very hard to prepare a meal or use the counter space. Yes our microwave is also high up, the passenger seat is huge and that’s nice but they added a fold up table that gets in the way when you are entering the motorhome, we took the table off and now have a bar that people can trip over if we swing the chair facing the back of the most home. The recliners are not bolted down either like theater seating , so they move while we are on the road, the newer ones are built in with the table in the middle. But in all we do enjoy vacationing in it with the fur kids.
How about vacuuming out the trailer before it gets shipped to a dealer? I was shocked the first time I had to “go in” and do some work inside the guts of the trailer (like under the fridge). Wood chips and drill dust everywhere! Seems like every section of the trailer that is ‘unseen’ is full of scrap wood chips or metal bits from drills. Grrr.
Hi, Tommy. That reminds me of an RV show that I went to a few years ago with one of my 6’8″ sons (I have two of them!). In one trailer he noticed on the top of a cabinet that had a “lip” around the edge many loose staples just laying there. Also, in a fifth wheel, the floor at the bottom of the steps to the bedroom was very squishy (sank about an inch when stepped on), and another trailer had the bathroom door falling off. I can’t remember all of the other major issues we saw but there were lots! And this was pre-Covid. I can just imagine the “quality” of the production during the Covid years. Have a great day. 🤗 –Diane
Wow! I’m thinking of stopping in at a local dealer just to go into some of these new units and see if I can readily spot shoddy workmanship. I’ll bet we can!
Good morning, Tommy. Yep, it was an eye-opener, all right. You’d think that, especially at an RV show, they’d want to put their best foot forward, so to speak. But, no. There were soooo many huge problems with the RVs, even to an untrained eye, that I was even embarrassed for the salespeople that were “showing off” their RVs. And, as I said, this was pre-pandemic. Yikes! So I certainly believe, and can empathize with, all of the horror stories we’ve been hearing about shoddy workmanship and lack of quality control for far too long. (I wish I had taken some pictures.) Have a great day.🤗 –Diane
RV designers don’t cook either. Many times an RV has a huge double sink 2” from a huge stove top. Where do I do kitchen prep? Counter-space is a must. Also I’ve seen too many models where the sink is right next to the bed…what??? So I splatter all over my bed….ridiculous.
Yes!
Bedside shelves, a place for your watch, clock, eyeglasses, and everything else needed at night.
An awning that can be left out, even in mild to moderate wind and rain. After seeing so many that have ripped off the side of the rig, I constantly watch when I have them out.
If I could talk to an RV designer I would suggest installing a convection/microwave rather that just a microwave. Install higher quality mattress. Is it possible to install a small permanent dehumidifier that drains outside? Dimmer switches for lights in main areas like kitchen living area and bedrooms.
Most design engineers sit in their air conditioned office and never go near the design when it comes off the assembly line. One manufacturer, and I don’t remember who actually requires their engineers to go out in the RV prototype for a weekend to live with it. All of them should be required to do so.
Brinkley RV is fairly new to the market. They boast that all their design engineers are RVers.
Just one big improvement: Quality over quantity.
Amen!
I have arthritis in my neck and can’t understand why manufacturers don’t do more TVs straight on!! Even in high-end units TV’s are off set!!!
I would love a small closet near the entrance door to store coats/ jackets etc that smell a bit like campfire smoke to separate them from other clothes in the main closet. Also, having a small one near entrance can allow you to grab a light jacket or boots quickly without having to walk through the coach to the bedroom closet. Finally, a closet near the front door would be great for guest jackets etc. currently we drop them over the drivers or passenger seat which then is difficult if we need the seats for sitting,
Stop putting electric plugs under cabinets. You have to stand on your head to plug something into outlet.
YES!!! While I love my Newmar, they are one of the worst at electrical plug convenience. The plugs for our little bed nightstands are under the mattress platform. Under overhead cabinets in the kitchen and baths. Have reach between living room seating and the captains chairs up front. Egads…something they know you’ll be using frequently!
How about a nice comfortable mattress? You spend a lot of money on a unit only to have to turn around and spend more $$ on a decent mattress. we have a fifth wheel and there is also no shelves next to the bed for phones or even a CPAP machine
I agree with everything you’ve said, and would add NO carpeting! Why, oh why do they think light, tan carpeting is a good idea when most of us stay in areas that have either/and dirt, sand or gravel that we drag into our coaches? After a year of getting down on my knees and scrubbing the carpeting, I had it ALL taken out and put in hard wood floors. I bought a few throw rugs that I could wash when needed, and am so much happier!
Totally agree
I love the electric outlet that is behind the sliding bathroom door in the bedroom. Seriously? It’s like they need a pre-construction proof reader to check the design layout before building. I specifically looked for a seating / tv layout where I could sit and look straight on to watch television. Putting a tv at 90 degrees to seating is nuts. One of the operational problems nowadays is putting the water pump too far from the tank for efficiency. These pumps are designed to push water, not pull and should be no more than 6′ from the source/tank. Our tank is up front and the pump is a good 10′ or more by way of plumbing and it works hard to pull the water. Makes them noisier.
Excellent article, I hope you send it to the manufacturers.
I would add: Look at where your gutters drip/pour down, perhaps there are human beings needing to open hatches or emerge from doorways right there.
Stop placing fresh water outlets directly over sewer valves, we’re trying to keep things sanitary.
Give me a manual kill switch for an automated step that has gone haywire or when I have to park by a high curb.
Never ever ever ever put a water pump where it is difficult to access, such as under a bed platform or behind a wall. They are only warranteed for 2 years; they will need service, let’s get real.
Stop using the cheapest possible water pipe connections.
The lack of competition is why some things don’t get better.
One of my pet peeves is the lack of efficiency in RV furnaces.
You could roast a wiener at the exhaust!! There are house propane and NG furnaces that the chimneys are plastic because of so little heat going out.
I would like to see designers make all important system components accessible. For example, on my last TT the slide control module was under the fridge, behind the breaker panel so you had to remove the entire panel to get to it! Ugh!
Twin Beds.
After a day of outdoor” play” a good nights sleep is important and the best way is with my own bed. With storage underneath.
Also, Dinettes! not side tables with a bench seat We like to play cards after dinner and not much fun when you are sitting beside your opponent, and looking across the room.
I would like to see an area for muddy shoes when entering your RV. Yeah, I have seen some real high-end class A’s offer something, but not the everyday RV. Also, when its pouring rain out and perhaps you’re setting up camp, or just getting back from an outing, where do you put your soaking wet rain jacket and maybe umbrella?
Entry doors need better locks and latches. I just watched a video that showed a $700K plus Entergra with the same latch and handle assembly that my 10-year-old entry-level DP has.
No more Brown Please. It’s 2023. Modern Looking Refrigerators with a BOTTOM FREEZER! My knees would thank you! Look at Leisure Travel and what’s going on in Europe. Do that to your Class A.
That will be all.
I share your thoughts about the microwave; gas oven. Make an rv with a large single basin sink. -And also more counter space. A nice sized bathroom would be great. I have to sit on the toilet and put my legs out the door to get dressed.
Enough with the cheap decals that start looking like crap after 4 years. No wonder many parks now ban rigs over 10 years old.
I have never understood why there is a round sink in the kitchen…or bathroom! Not very practical. Does anyone like them?
Not at all!
Interior designers: forget prison gray and dungeon black; you are not designing a battleship for the Navy! Lighter colors make the small interior of an RV look larger–design schools do actually teach that, don’t they?
More windows on the camp side, few or no windows on the street side. You might have to move the kitchen to the street side and, heaven forbid, eliminate the outside kitchen. But, if designers actually used RVs, they would soon discover why seeing their campsite is preferable to seeing the neighbor’s!
No more windshields in bedrooms. They are for sleeping in the dark!
Design the layout so that the kitchen and bathroom can be used during quick stops and without putting out the slides.
“L” shaped kitchen counters are great but they often make the kitchen unusable unless the slides are out. Maybe design a rolling/wheel locking cabinet with the same countertop finish as the rest of the counter. Make it so the cabinet can be safely docked in two locations–away from the exterior door, bathroom, and part of the kitchen during travel, but able to form an “L” shaped countertop while staying in camp.
Agree with your issues, I’ve been looking at Outdoors RV 20RDS or 20BD. Never been in a 20BD, but not sure there’s enough room for wife to use the toilet and Pee. At the Hershey RV show, wife sat on some toilets in Airstreams and said theres no room for her to spread legs enough to pee. I didn’t know what to say. Maybe they need woman designers. Than for 2024 Outdoors Rv is using the Schwintek slide in the 25RDS. The most problematic side out there. RV companies don’t care, they just want to sell their RV’s
Definitely agree about the Schwintek slide mechanisms.
Organized wiring harness with labels, raceways for the cables and a wiring schematic of the coach. Stop putting in components you know are defective. Resolve the defect with the manufacturer or eat the cost of the junk, but don’t pass these defects on to the end buyer so you can exhaust your inventory of defective parts.
Yes on the labeled wiring harness. Agree completely.
Our 2018 Tiffin has the microwave/convection oven under the counter in place of where the oven used to be. It is a real pain to have to bend over to look inside the microwave/convection oven when using it — too low!. The inside of the RV is not so high that it could not have been swapped out with a cupboard over the range. Put microwave above range and cupboard under the range !!
That would be our 2002 Newmar Dutchstar! Gave up the oven, haven’t missed it, for 3 huge drawers in its place. Above a GE convection microwave. We like it so much we bought one for our sticks and bricks. Especially great on hot days when you don’t want to turn the gas oven on.
Three items I would like to see added to the newer travel trailers:
1. There should be more overhead vents installed. One in the bedroom area over the bed with a two-way fan – blowing in or out. Like a ceiling fan on those nights when outside air feels good. And an exhaust fan in the kitchen and bathroom!
2. One manufacturer is now installing additional switches in the front storage bay to operate the curbside awning and a second switch on the street side to extend or retract the slide-out/s. These items would be GREAT for the single camper without a partner!
3. An additional switch for the water pump IN the bathroom!
A water pump switch IN the bathroom! Yes!
1. Design everything so incorrect assembly isn’t possible
2. Find a lighter, more durable material than particle board
3. Don’t make anything dark brown
4. It’s the 2020’s-build in a place with 12 & 120 V power, CAT 6, coax, and a conduit to the roof for our internet equipment
5. Stop building in DVD players – that ship has sailed
6. Pay some attention to the aerodynamics of the box – square corners and stuff sticking out in airflow isn’t good for anyone
Not a design feature, but you really should test everything before you ship to your dealers so you don’t create a toxic relationship between dealers and customers.
I like DVD players and watch shows when boondocking and alot in winter. When boys watch football.
Ensure the dinette window is at least down as far as the top of the dinette seat so smaller kids can see out to the ground outside.
Put a drawer or doors on the dinette bench seats lower areas to be able to access the storage area below the seat cushions, rather than have to tear the seat apart to get to it.
Put more secure locks on the outside storage areas. Many RV’s use the same CH751 locks and keys on these areas.
Make the pull-out stair steps on Class C RV’s more secure and steady. My wife is afraid to step down onto them. I made a sturdy set of wooden steps that fit into the stairwell when traveling and use them instead of the pull-out ones.
More fiberglass roof models
Faucets need to be a better, more home grade quality. Also, a schematic of all hidden components, wiring and plumbing so even owners could have an idea where to look when things go wrong. To some degree I have upgraded a lot of mine so I can work on it and I have reasonable faucets.
Scrap the TPO and EPDM rubber roofs for fiberglass or aluminum roofs.
Yes, Yes and Yes.
Some people are removing their interior doors and installing tension rods and curtains instead because the doors are getting in the way. How about sliding barn type or pocket doors instead?
Our Heartland BHS24 has pocket doors. Plus, the tv rotates so you can watch from dinette or while in bed. We love it!
The answer is simple, but difficult to make happen. The current process is that the designer grabs a grocery cart, pulls items from 14 vendors, hands them to the fabricators saying… make it fit. What we need is a “design team that does it all.” Design the coach and everything in it. Lay it out to vendors saying bring me what I want and it must fit my design. In short… the way car manufacturers operate.
The dropping to your bad knees, flashlight in left hand, fire starter in right hand, just to light the oven. Those funeral swags and and hideous sateen cornices. When we bought our 2nd fiver, I ask my husband not to look at colors and style, I can fix that and I did. I took cornices down, patched small holes, put up linen curtains, bought very comfy furniture. Loveseat/bed and recliner. Table that can seat 6, but seats 2 very ample and comfy from. IKEA. 2 great (thrift store) oak chairs we have folding chairs for company. It’s our home. There is no place like home
I don’t care for that auto-close awning. I keep a table and other things out of the rain with my awning. If it’s going to rain I lower one corner, and the rain rolls right off. If it starts to get windy or I’m going to be away for the day I just lower both corners and all is good. The trailer is a 1989 Road Ranger and we haven’t lost the awning yet. And just to let the manufacturers know, we drove right off the lot and never had anything need repairing until this year. We started having the plastic trim inside crack from old age so we replaced it. The furnace quit working so it’s getting replaced. This is how RVs should still be built. Sadly they are not. It’s also why we won’t replace ours.
Keep the dinette seating on the campfire side of the trailer. I don’t care to have the neighbors watching us eating or seeing what cards I’m holding in my hand. I don’t need to see their campsite.
Agree
Ditch the insanely annoying exterior LED decoration! These lights get left on all night by inconsiderate campers. I’m not talking about the awning lights that serve a purpose, it’s the underbody and other decorative-only LEDS. OR, at least put them on countdown timers so they go off after an hour or two. I’m not prone to violence, but these LEDs that light up the entire campground might just push me over the edge! The RV industry would be FAR better served by taking the money they spend on “FLASHY” and put that money into quality materials and quality control.
At one of the campgrounds we stopped at during our most recent trip I watched a guy back his trailer of moderate length into a spot about 50 feet over from us. I don’t know where he kept it all but he hung up a long LED string on the awning support arms and across the awning. But there was more. A large rug was laid out and then bordered with another very long LED string. Then another string around his trailer. He then became a well-lit centerpiece. Why?
I think it’s the same reason people 1) put lights all over and under their cars, 2) tattoos covering their bodies 3) loud music and outdoor television and projectors.
It’s
“****LOOK AT ME*****I’M SO COOL**** YOU JUST HAVE TO LOVE HOW COOL I LOOK*****
People are very uncouth in today’s society IHO.
Upgrade everything! We’ve had to replace most things. NO MORE DINETTES!
Stop the exterior outdoor lights, you are not at the mall! Why, oh, why are there so many mirrors. Furniture should not be tan, or white.
Many of the new rvs with center kitchens put the refrigerator between the stove and sink (usually “L” shaped kitchen). It would be better to have the refrigerator at the end so you are cooking in the kitchen not the living room! And then the sink is close.
And I would like to have an island without the sink.
We are personally on the hunt for a trailer with windows front & rear – too often the enjoyable part of the campsite is there & cannot be enjoyed from inside the trailer. 2. properly placed awnings over camper doors 3. option to have queen size bed with more floor space for the pets in place of king size bed (who needs that!) 4. decent space around the toilet & in the shower for anyone with hips 5. options on dinette vs table chairs for those of us with dogs that need some crate space when camping.
I am 5′ 11″ tall and I hate that I am longer than the ” queen” size bed I sleep on. Very uncomfortable! I also do not like to add a foam pad to the bed so that I do not bottom out on the mattress (I only weigh 185). Bottom line put in a more suitable bed when you buy an RV.
Don’t know why most new trailers come with a fridge that only runs on electricity. The electric/propane option is much more useful.
I like the functionality of a dual fuel refrigerator using either gas or shore power. However, from articles that I have read, and have also actually seen happen, most RV fires originate from these refrigerators. Fortunately, the man from the motorhome near us had a couple of fire extinguishers, and the fire department got there quickly. They chopped a hole through the side to be sure the fire was fully extinguished. I would hope he had enough insurance for an expensive repair.
I absolutely love our DC fridge and can’t understand why anyone would have a propane model.
Run the plumbing lines along side the central heating duct, then branch out to each of the fixtures making sure the lines are well secured (to minimize that awful banging noise from the pump) and insulated like they should be (a no brainer)!
Pantry size! Why do they always focus on men’s needs but not on where to store food to feed such men? Little pantries with no space to store crock pots or air fryers are dumb. Most of them are so small food doesn’t even fit in them. Feeding the family should be the priority, not outdoor toys.
how about water shut off valves(angle stops) at the faucets, toilet, shower in order to make repairs or to replace fixtures….thank goodness for PEX, sharkbite fittings and tools
I would love to speak with a designer–who could take certain segments (raised rear living) and include that in another model that has a den/office. We’re both remote workers and both need work space–where one of us is not outside in a tent. 🙂
Our parents still like to camp, but don’t pull their own rigs anymore-we want them to join us for a week or more at a time, so would like them to “own” the den space for their area.
I have a few more requests like this–WHO can I talk to, to make this happen? Does anyone have contacts? Ideas? Dealers that will do this?
Thanks for any advice!
🙂
Hi, RaeAnn. I’m passing your comment along to our writer Tony Barthel, who is a longtime RV industry insider. Hopefully he can offer you a suggestion or two. Thanks for asking. Have a great day. 😀 –Diane at RVtravel.com
Here’s the problem as I see it.
RV companies talk to dealership owners. Dealership owners talk to sales people. Sales people listen to words they want to hear but not necessarily the words you want to share.
RV design is often a game of telephone and nobody is a winner in that game.
At least some companies (Ember, Alliance, Brinkley, Northwood Mfg.) actually have decision makers who camp in their products so avoid the big kids. Also, there have been some of my review lately including this one that seems to fit what you describe.
Sink cover