By Russ and Tiña De Maris
If the measure of how much Americans love the land were based on how many disposable propane cylinders are sold each year, they must love it a lot. Some 40 million one-pound disposables are sold each year in the U.S. They go backpacking, back-yarding, into the shop and into RVs. But once they’re empty, where do they go? Often to landfills, far too often left cluttering the landscape.
National park visitors often just leave them at the campground dumpster – which in 2014 amounted to 23,000 of the little metal cylinders at Yosemite National Park, costing more than a $1 each for proper disposal. Put another way, a year’s worth – 40 million disposable propane cylinders – all tossed into the standard 4-yard dumpsters typically seen in campgrounds, would require 825,000 dumpsters. That’s a lot of waste!
It’s no wonder that those with a consciousness of caring for the planet figure there’s got to be a better way. Why not refill disposable cylinders, reducing the amount of waste, and save a bit of money as well?
The average price of a disposable is more than $5 each; ringing up at more than 31 cents per ounce. If you paid that price to fill your smaller RV cylinder, it would cost you $100 per fill up. There are plenty of adapters that make it possible to fill a disposable from a refillable propane container. Doing the math says even if you paid $3 a gallon for propane, your refilled cost per disposable would amount to a piddling 71 cents.
But there’s another side to the equation: How much is your safety worth? Disposable propane cylinders are built far differently than their larger, refillable brothers. The metal walls of the disposable type are thin, and repeated contraction and expansion of those thin walls can lead to metal fatigue and eventual rupture. Likewise, a disposable’s valve is not designed for repeated use; and unlike an LP cylinder designed to be refilled, there’s no “bleeder” valve to indicate when the disposable is filled to the safe point, making overfilling a real problem. And while plenty of people refill their disposable cylinders without trouble, how much are you willing to gamble that you can get away with it?
Then there’s another financial consideration. While it is technically legal to refill a disposable cylinder, transporting it on a public highway is a very different matter. Federal regulations (administered by the U.S. Department of Transportation) prohibit transport of refilled “DOT 39” cylinders (of which classification small cylinders fall under). Violate that regulation, you’re liable for a fine of up to $500,000 and five years in prison.
SO WHAT’S TO BE DONE? Give up on using those handy one-pound cylinders in favor of the environment? Run the risk of life and limb and refill the disposables? Enter an alternative: Safe and legally refillable one-pound cylinders. Flame King now offers cylinders designed for refill, along with a refill kit to pump your own. The cylinders themselves are heavy-duty, and equipped with an “80% valve” that indicates when the safe “full” point has been reached.
How does it work? The refill system includes a stand on which you can safely place an inverted 20-pound cylinder. That cylinder is connected to an adapter, and it to the refillable cylinder. Using an included Allen wrench, you crack open the bleeder valve and press a dispensing lever on the adapter. When liquid propane begins to spit out of the bleeder valve, you let up on the fill lever, close the bleeder valve, and disconnect the refilled cylinder. Users happily report that unlike refills of disposable cylinders, it’s easy to get a full cylinder, with no need to stick it in a freezer to encourage a full-fill. There’s a video available on YouTube that shows the whole process.
You’ll need to run your figures to determine your break-even point. The whole kit, including the refill system and a single, one-pound refillable cylinder, usuallt runs just shy of $50; additional cylinders are $14. Yes, the up-front cost may look a little imposing, but on the other hand, if you’re paying $5 per disposable, it doesn’t take much to figure the savings both financially and environmentally. And as opposed to the inherent dangers of refilling disposables, this Flame King system looks like a winner all around.
##RVT881 ##RVDT1487
So are there any statistics on just how many people are killed or injured by refilled disposable propane cylinders? I myself don’t recall ever hearing about any. I’ve been doing it for at least 25 years and I’m sure that some of my bottles have been refilled dozens of times. This is actually the first time I’ve even heard an alarm raised about the practice. The refill adapters I’ve purchased for this purpose were obtained from reliable sources without any warning of possible dire consequences that I recall. I suspect that possibly the disposable bottles themselves had warning labels of some sort on them but of the 10 I’m currently using any such label is long gone.
No, I’ve never seen any statistics. But I was well aware of the DOT prohibition of transporting refilled single-use canisters. It’s a brave fellow who tempts Murphy, or dances with Darwin for an award. One unfortunate incident is all it takes to trigger a massive reaction: it was an ignorant propane worker who over-filled a cylinder that later erupted in transport; then all of us were forced to convert to OPD valves. Has anyone ever tallied the total cost of that careless action?
We live on an island here, and I’d hate to think of the consequences of being caught with an unexpectedly-leaking refilled disposable cylinder in my camper locker by the Security folks at our ferry landing. It can happen. Remember that $500,000 fine and 5 years prison? Those folks have no sense of humor. None at all.
I was going to mention that too, Bruce. While I don’t refill my bottles, I’ve never heard of anyone being injured doing this.
So are there any statistics of innocent people being killed or injured enjoying an outdoor concert in Las Vegas?
As the other poster said we live on a island….all it takes is one person who doesn’t follow the rules that may impact the lives of others including oneself.
Submitted with respect
Of course there are statistics about Country music fans being gunned down in Las Vegas, because it actually happened. There is also a statistic for someone that was killed by a marshmallow they ingested and choked to death on. Who thinks marshmallows should be banned because they’re so dangerous? What are the statistics for people being maimed or killed by disposal propane cylinders was the question I posed. Do you have a reasonable or educated answer to that question?
Yes. Ban marshmallows, not little green tanks. Sounds like a winner t-shirt.
In today’s world, that makes perfect sense . . .
With respect…those r the rules…it you don’t like it do something positive about it….write you goverment representative…be the change you want to see in the world.
I hope and pray your action by illegally fills propane tanks…don’t significantly impact you or your family or the family of others.
At least there is a choking hazard warning label on the marshmallow bag….the poor concert goers never saw it coming.
Thats because there hasnt been anybody. Keep refilling to beat the man.
The solution to the problem maybe to put a $2 deposit on each cylinder or ban the disposable tanks and require all tanks be green refillable.
The 20 lb tanks are all refillable. Everyone is accustomed to exchange or refill.
Mass production would lower the $14 for the green tanks to a few dollars
Hear, hear! That is what I was going to say, so I’m glad you said it. These disposables need to be banned.
Enough gov’t intervention. Leave us alone already. Why are some not happy until thete is a rule for everything. This won’t happen, and keep refilling, the govt cant catch everybody!
I manage a campground and can attest to the wasteful use of these small cylinders. Many people toss them into our regular trash and they are often still partially full. I do my best to separate them and then offer them free to campers to use up the remaining propane. I can only imagine what would occur if a trash compactor was to puncture one of these inside a trash bag.
For the price of these small cylinders over time a person could purchase a smaller 5 or 10 lbs refillable cylinder and adapter hose and make use of it for years at a fraction of the cost.
One of the smaller 5 lb tanks kept my camper warm during a campout. My Coleman stove would need an adapter for the smaller tank or a fitting that minmics the screw on disposable cylinder connetion. The refillable cylinders sound like a good idea until you view the cost of each set-up.
Flame King cylinders are also DOT legal for transport. I have two and they work great.
Flame King has a recall on those 1lb cylinders, there were a ot of reported issues with those tanks !!
For those of you who don’t like doing business with Amazon (such as me), you can also order the cylinders, both the cylinder and valve kit as well as the cylinders only (only on $16.89) online from Wally World (Walmart).
Walmart is no less terrible than Amazon. They also destroy local businesses.
Generally it has been said that the refill process and refill level achieved is only 80-85% efficient in terms of transferring the liquid propane from a larger 20 lb tank to the smaller in achieving a full 1lb fill level to the disposable tank so the chanced of overfill and bursting of the current 1 lb tanks are very slim.
You can totally fill to 100% if your 20lb is warm and your 1lbs are cold. But I’m only willing to do it in the fall and winter at 100%.
I am saving for a Camp Chef oven for my rig and plan on buying the refillable bottles with the adapter kit. I’ve never been comfortable with the idea of risking my safety by refilling bottles that weren’t made for the purpose. So what they cost around $16 each? They can be refilled so many times that they’ll pay for themselves in the long run.
I’ve read all the current comments and agree with almost everything said so far. I once thought about a job with a local propane company who needed a position filled. I passed both official tests required by my state as well as being a hot air balloon pilot who had keys to get into the propane yard on Sunday to personally refill my 40 lb stand up tanks. I also have refilled little green bottles and in order to really get them relatively full you have to know a trick or two (no don’t put them in a freezer before refilling). After refilling them several times (I had six so I didn’t have to do it as often) over a cold spring I just ordered the right hose for my Buddy heater and went with a 20 lb tank. If you’re tent camping go with a 5lb tank or whatever is right for you. WHY? I have a fair amount of experience with propane and I got spooked a couple of times getting those little green bottles filled. If I had any doubt about them after refilling I used that one first and then threw it out. The real pisser about this article is that it’s an advertisement appearing to be an article. I know this publication needs the revenue so OK. Price a 5 or 20lb tank and hose against this product. It may be a fine product and POSSIBLY safer than do it yourself solutions but you be the judge. And no I won’t propagate any tricks which in the long run I thought were dicey.
Stev(?) — In reply to your comment: “The real pisser about this article is that it’s an advertisement appearing to be an article.” This article was not written as an advertisement. It was written in response to a previous article about refilling tanks but we got negative feedback from some readers on it so we presented the “cons” to refilling them. But since, in the process, we found that there is a safe way to do it, we presented that option for our readers if anyone was interested. Would you be happier if I went in and deleted our affiliate code for the link to Amazon so we wouldn’t make a couple of bucks (maybe) off the article? Nah. I’m not going to do that. We supply links for items in case people are interested in them, for their convenience, whether they’re at Amazon or not. If they are at Amazon, and someone wants to order that way to help keep us afloat, we appreciate that very much. We could have included the price of larger tanks, etc., but that wasn’t the topic of this particular article. I was appreciating your information about propane until I got to your above rude/inaccurate comment. —Diane at RVtravel.com
Diane, I didn’t find Stev’s comment rude. If it was inaccurate, okay. Aren’t we all entitled to our opinion? Hell, Chef Ramsey(Gordon Ramsey) says that all the time, “piss off”. Is the article on refilling 1# bottles, landfills, the environment, safety, what others use or do?
Just food for thought. The article does transition to an advertising of a particular product, description, how it works and cost.
I’m a Prime member so I try to use your link as much as I can to help your website. I get a laugh at some of these comments, you should too!
Thanks for your POV, Gman. The part that got me was when Stev said “… it’s an advertisement appearing to be an article. … And no I won’t propagate any tricks which in the long run I thought were dicey.” Maybe “rude” wasn’t the correct term. I just didn’t appreciate him accusing us, basically, of being deceitful. Yes, I could have left the link to the product out, but, like I explained, in case anyone was interested in it the link was a helpful way to get to more information about it. If we don’t put in links to what an article is regarding, then we get comments about “Why didn’t you include a link? I can’t find it!” Can’t win for losin’. 😯 And, BTW, I’m way more lenient that any others who moderate the comments on here. Have a great day! 😀 —Diane at RVtravel.com
I’ve been using the Flame King refillable cylinders for a number of years now, and can truthfully say they have paid for themselves many times over.
Quick and easy to fill … I’ll never go back to using disposable one pound cylinders.
G
I have refilled MANY hundreds of these 1# tanks (torches and heaters eat 30-40 refills a year, 20 years…), had exactly ONE leak. These are used around my shop where they have to be portable but not “transported.” Each refill costs 40 cents instead of $5.
I seldom use up a tank in one shot, so assume 3-4X as many connect/ disconnect cycles as refills. Now we’re into thousands of connection cycles. Refilling does NOTHING special compared to disconnecting your tank for transport (grill in RV, tanks in vented truckbed) without refilling, so i’m not very concerned about valve leakage. In fact, one of my micro torches easily drives several dozen disconnect cycles per pound.
I only store and transport ALL propane in an open vent manner, because I’m not stupid. I know how to fill them, leak check every disconnection, and if a tank surprise-leaks, its no problem. That said, I really wonder how a tank looks different to DOT when half the factory gas is used vs the 47th time it’s refilled?
With prices coming down on officially blessed refillable tanks, I’ve gotten a few just to be kosher with the RV, but I have to agree $50 for the kit is crazy! My (unvalved) adapter cost $5 I think, and works perfectly relying on the two tank valves.
As far as the HUGE ecological impact, i’m shameless enough to put out a recycling bin at campsites. I’ll make sure your empties are reused and recycled responsibly!
A PSA, BTW… I’ve heard people say they buy “GreenKey” tanks believing they are either legally refillable or magically more ecological. They are NEITHER. GreenKey is just a mechanism to finish emptying the tank (to maybe be safer for crushing) …but mainly to disable the tank so you CAN’T refill it if you use the tool (they are good tanks and refill fine if you don’t use the force-disposal locktool). Regardless of whether you refill, don’t buy GK “for the planet.”
It’s all baloney. Follow a simple rule, weigh before, then after. If you are careful not to overfill. Pull up some excellent YouTube videos ( watch a few) and have at it. Like others have said, you can save a bundle. I’ve filled a dozen at a time.
BBT; I agree completely. PEOPLE, The Sky is NOT falling, BTW.
Mr. & Mrs. De Maris did not do the math on this subject. And I am concerned they have not done much research, either.
First, the dough.
If you buy a pair of 1 lb. bottles at Wal Mart, they’re $8.59 USD for the pair. Unless they’re on sale (Woo Hoo! They’re on sale!) for $7.49 USD for the pair. That is $3.745 USD per pound. Mr. & Mrs. De Maris was talking in ounces. That’s not very smart. Because propane is not sold in ounces. Actually, it’s sold in gallons. And you have 4.1 pounds in each gallon. And the last I saw (a week ago in fact) “refillable propane” was going for $2.99 per gallon, and “non-refillable propane” was going for $1.5996 per gallon.
“Refillable propane” is where you have a refillable propane tank, as small as a 10 lbs. (2.7 gal.) tank up to a 100 lbs. (24.4 gal.) tank. The most common are the 20 lbs. (4.8 gal.) & 30 lbs. (7.3 gal.) tanks. “Non-refillable propane” is also known as “bulk propane” and “residential propane”. You will pay the “refillable propane” price when filling 10 lbs. through 100 lbs. tanks, but are prohibited from refilling those same tanks from a “nonrefillable propane” source. Ferrill Gas & AmeriGas sell both, in fact they deliver to the RV park and “refilliable propane” refill station. And they sell the “nonrefillable propane” as “residential propane” and “bulk propane” as well.
With that said, the “refillable propane” breaks down to $0.729 per 1 lb. bottle, and “non-refillable propane” would be $0.39 per 1 lb. bottle. So when you refill your own 1 lb. bottles, you save anywhere from $6.71 to $7.13 per pair of bottles. When you refill, you can remove the main insert valve, but it is not a good idea. Just make sure the bottle and valve is clean.
Second, the 1 lb. bottles.
They have a pressure insert near the neck of the bottle. Blow torch bottles and recreational bottles, both. It looks like a tire valve stem insert, which it is. You can remove that (after the bottle is empty). It is not the same as a tire valve stem however, it is set to vent out propane when under excessive pressure.
I hope this helps. If anyone feels I am wrong, please show me where as the last thing I want to do is give out the wrong info to fellow RV’ers.
Walmart’s here in San Diego, CA., sell the 1# bottles for $3.47 ea., $6.44 for a two pack and that’s regular everyday price.
Here is what I did after doing the math.
Going to the store to buy them at about $4.99 each. And not getting a so called deal at my Wholesale Club Store. We got rid of them. Then I went on line and bought 2 1 gallon tanks at about $39.00 each. And bought 2 six foot hoses to go along with them at $15.00 each. Total Cost around $120.00. The hoses fit my outdoor stove, grill and lanterns. During the camping season I use to have to buy at least 14 of the one pound cylinders so there is around lets say $60.00 around half of what I was paying to buy the one gallon tanks and hoses. We have a seasonal campsite and are there almost every weekend long or short and for our vacations during the season. Now the cost of getting the 1 gallon tanks filled. At the campgrounds the first time that I went get them filled there it was $15.00 for both of them. The next time I needed to fill them almost at the end of the season and I found out about a propane refill station about 3 miles away it cost $6.00 total.
I still have one of the one pound tanks for just in case.
I have a the stand and a refillable cylinder. In at least one instance it didn’t fit the female connection properly, and it doesn’t fit properly in my Mr. Heater Buddy Heater. The cylinder is too long so the heater does not sit flat.
Well, link to Amazon or not, we just can’t get them delivered to Canada.
Pierre: I contacted the Flame King headquarters office to see where you might be able to purchase their products. Sad to say, Canadian law currently prohibits consumer refills of one pound cylinders. Hence, Amazon won’t export up north. Sorry! Russ De Maris, Senior Editor
Forget the refills, get the 20lb adapter and use the 20lb tank instead. I have mine refilled for 12.00 at local campground.
20×4 =80 dollars in 1lb cans, it was a no brainer for me. Also good for the environment.
Tad heavy for my backpack.
This “article” is nothing but fearmongering from a site that makes money off Amazon referrals to sell the FlameKing product. 1lb cylinders are perfectly safe to refill when done safely, noting neither they nor larger cousins should be used at all after 10 years.
And for all the people smugly talking about just using larger refillable tanks instead, glad that works for you but it does not necessarily work for everyone else’s camping and RV applications (we have a small van with a small bbq that is our only propane appliance, not carting around a 10lb tank thx…).
Don’t 20# cyl shut off when upside down?
That’s what I thought too.
I have been in the propane trade for 30 years and refilling these small cylinders is dangerous for many reason. do yourself and everyone else a favor and get a get a proper refillable tank. not worth killing yourself for a few bucks.
The Flame King 1 lb tanks are designed to be refilled. They are built sturdy like a large propane tank and have a bleeder valve.
April 23 2020 in canada cost is $84 plus $35 shipping for just the bottle and most of the reviews say MOST of the flame king tanks are failing completely, doesn’t work, doesn’t screw on etc. Whoever wrote this and said $14 on amazon must be living someplace where the dollar is worth over 3x what it is here…. Thanks Trudeau.
But seriously $115 plus taxes for something that doesn’t work PER TANK?? I have done risky jobs for minimum wage, so if you’re talking about risking life and limb to most of (predominantly male) workers in north america doing dangerous everyday blue collar work… Like keeping your power grids and sewers and cities running… They measure that risk in “per hour” and choose to do it 40-80 hours a week…
Saving myself $110 to keep say 6 bottles for $660 every two weeks for torches and camp stove… Wow.
I wish corporate greed wasn’t so egregious it forces most working class people to risk life and limb just to save enough pennies to get by every month.
I’m in the US but I have used four of these Flame King refillable tanks for about two years on Coleman lanterns and a Big Buddy heater. They’ve been refilled at least 30 times each. They work fine. No leaks and they have sat in the cab of my truck in the boiling summer and freezing winter. No idea what reviews you’re looking at. US stores sell them for about $15 USD each. Amazon.com sells them for $10 and some change. If they’re more in Canada, look on eBay and see if someone in the US will ship to you.
More pure and utter nonsense for many Americans. I’ve been refilling cylinders for decades. Not an issue. I go through a dozen or more cannisters monthly. The savings is astronomical. Not all individuals have money to burn. If retailers didn’t rip off consumers on price, perhaps you would have a point. Fear mongering doesn’t help your case.
So the whole article on refilling 1 LB cylinders was an add for some company to sell a $50.00 kit. I have been refilling cylinders for years with no problems, and have never had some one tell me that they have had one. I fill them maybe 4 or 5 times then toss them and buy a new one.
If the design doesn’t support refilling, no one should do it. PERIOD! Just because people have been doing it means nothing, If you are doing it , you have just been eating into the design’s safety factor. STOP NOW!
What needs to be done is to remove these things from the market in place of refilling cylinders.
“We do NOT need any more laws written by ignorant people to control smarter and risk-aware people”
Your ignorance is similar to the ignorance of the people writing this article while conveniently selling a cylinder that is hardly different for $50.
As several have said, these cylinders are well made to handle pressure changes. They are very definitely designed to be filled, how else would they fill them at the factory?. The article is based on false uninformed speculation, like most on the internet. If you can’t check a propane tank OF ANY KIND for leaks, then you are not qualified to use gas.
I purchased this system last year and I have accumulated 10 cylinders. It works great and I no longer buy any disposables. With a full 20lb cylinder, the refillables take about 2 minutes each to fill. That extends to about 5 minutes each as the 20lb cylinder gets closer to empty.
Ive been filling little tanks for year. A real pita. Only get about 1/2tank .Bought an adapter kit with a hose for about 12$ and use gas right out out a #20r.
1 lb -vs- 10 or 20 lbs. I sail. There’s really no place on board to store a 10 or 20 lb propane bottle above deck on our sloop. However i can fit three 1 lb bottles in a sleeve and hang them from one of the rails surrounding the stern. several sleeves and i’ve got enough fuel for a month afloat (info – propane settles into the lowest part of the boat and that’s why one should NEVER store propane below deck in a boat or really anywhere else it can’t flow out the bottom into free air). Therefore this article really interested me. I’ve always refilled the little 1 lb bottles (getting only about 1/2 full as I was not able to vent the air out as the propane flowed in) and never had a problem — yet. The fact that “properly” refillable bottles was not known to me so again, this article was really appreciated.
First, find my old comment below… it’s good and keeps me from repeating important info.
Next, i refilled 107 one pound cylinders this year for under $28. $7 per 20# does that. None leaked and they are all several dozen times refilled. $28 or $535 at retail?
I tried the refillable bottles last year… both developed leaks and were thrown out. I wasted more money trying those than refilling my old single use 107 times. Hmm?
Again, DO KNOW what you’re doing while filling and DO NOT store ANY LP tank (20 or 1lb) inside your enclosed cab or RV…
We do NOT need any more laws written by ignorant people to control smarter and risk-aware people!
So where do you store propane cylinders , 1 pound, 20 pound or other sizes? Leave em out in the weather? Ive kept many 1 pound coleman cylinders in my shed ( probly 100 degrees in there in summer, or little hotter) , for years with no issues.
If you do decide to fill the disposables, do your self a HUGE favor and purchase the brass caps that fit the threaded top of the cylinder. Amazon has them in 5 packs. It will stop the leak from the inner valve seal. When you slide your device in and out of these throw away seals, they get scratched and leak, I filled up 5 one day and put a drop of soap on the outlet and all 5 had a bubble appearing in seconds. They will leak down in a few weeks/months and you have nothing now, may not ever create a hazard because it is a small leak but you will lose your propane.
If either valve has a leak, just open the valve with pliers briefly and it will re-seat and no longer leak.
The canisters are designed for expansion and contraction. They have to be since they expand and contract constantly all day and night long from the time they are first filled at the factory. Heat and cold cause propane to do that and there is no expiration date on the canisters.
A small programmable digital scale will deduct the empty weight of the canister. Then add 16 ounces of propane ( that’s the amount they originally come with). Disconnect and refill another canister. They have a Schrader valve built in and opening it allows the 16 ounces of propane to fill faster.
Flame King is a very costly way to go and does nothing to help with the waste created by empty propane bottles. You can buy a refill kit on Amazon or eBay for a few dollars and do a lot of good. IMHO
bisonwings; I couldn’t have said it better.
Harbor Frieght has a adapter (about $17) that fits the 7 gal tank(s) on the front of my 30′ Fleetwood. I’ll add that although a temperature differential between the filling tank and the 1 lb Greenie is desired, the Greenie doesn’t have to be frozen. Just put in the refrigerator for an hour or so will work fine. A 30 degree difference is very good, but as little as 15 degrees (like in the winter) will work fine. What, you don’t get a full refill? So what. Just refill the 3/4 full Greenies more frequently and stop being lazy! I’ve been refilling the same 10 Greenie’s for about 6-7 years (about 60 refills a year total) now, with no problem. If something was going to happen, it would have by now. WallyWorld here in San Diego (2021) has x2 greenies for $7 (incl tx). I refill mine for $.78 each and my propane is delivered for $3.63/gal to my RV Park.
Hey, what’s that hissing sound?!?!?!? 😉
To vent the throw away bottles while filling get a surgical clamp either from a pharmacy, Amazon, or hobby shop. The ones with a 45 degree angle work best. Attach that clamp onto the Schrader’s pin that sticks up and then raise the pin as you are filling the canister. I set my refillable tank upside down and the 16 ounce tank on the scale below it. This way I get a full 16 ounces into canister.
what about just using an old style coleman camp stove that runs on nafta?
something that looks like this one?
https://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/coleman-naptha-camping-stove-0762043p.0762043.html?gclid=Cj0KCQjwxdSHBhCdARIsAG6zhlVrg2h16jxCHNeTRw87wrgZylWUJUYeh3v9wUuNvQ3o63dmjkNBPqIaAlDGEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds#store=218
Naptha? Camp grounds out in the western united states do not allow liquid gas stoves anymore.
Refilling those 1lb propane cylinders is 100% safe. They have pressure relieve valve so even if somebody fills them to 100% the valve will vent a bit of gas. I live in Europe and we don’t use those 1lb “green” coleman cartridges here AT ALL. Only some shops import them alongside with blowtorches from Bernzomatic (they have the same valve).
The main danger is refilling those thin-walled camping cylinders we use here in Europe for camping equiment (search for 100g propane butane cartdidge). And you know the danger? Those small thin cartridges are NOT filled with propane but with Butane/Isobutane mixture. They have 30% propane max. And you know why? Because those thin cylinders can’t take the pressure of pure propane (search for propane butane vapor pressure) – spoiler: Propane has around 13Bar at 40°C and 30% Propane,70%Butane has only 6Bar.
So if somebody were to refill those cylinders with pure propane they will most likely explode (yeah, they don’t have pressure relieve valve).
On the other hand those green US coleman 1lb cylinders are factory filled with moreless pure propane so you can’t fill them with anything “worse”….
Nothing involving a highly flammable gas and open ignition is “100% safe.”
And regarding other aspects like leaking gas, worn out bottles etc…Imagine factory filled bottle that has been 50 times connected/disconnected to blowtorch (fast heating jobs that consume only bit of gas), beaten on construction site, beaten on the truckbed on bumpy road, rusty…etc etc and properly maintained grill bottle that gets used in one day and then refilled, used for another grilling week later, refilled etc…My bet would be that the latter one will be in much better condition even after 50 refills. The only factor could be expiration date (like 10years since manufacture) or dis/connection count. And obvious visual condition (rust…)
Btw the price for those 1lb coleman/bernzomatic bottles here is around 12USD incl. tax.
How many people who commented in here are structural engineers and understand the real science behind whats involved with filling a propane cylinder ? How many of you are certified to legally fill an LP cylinder ?? Thats what I thought. Remember, you can still sue even if your ignorance causes your injury or the injury/death of a loved one !!!!!!!!!
Liquid propane and gas/liquid relationship under pressure is not rocket science…don’t overthink it…I really can’t think of any serious danger having refilled cartridges. The act of refilling is bit dangerous as you are manipulating with flammable gas but as long as you do it outdoors away from ignition sources it is fine. Also if you note weight of full cartridge and later target your refill to this weight you don’t even risk overfilling them.
And there you just hit on the real problem. It’s not that refilling those small 1lb cylinders is inherently unsafe. It’s that the lawyers get involved. The tanks are not certified for refilling, and in the unlikely event somebody does get hurt they could sue and win — unless the manufactures make it very clear “do not refill”. Even then, they might still have to waste time and money defending themselves from the idiot who decided to attempt refilling an old, rusty cylinder that has been sitting outside for 5 years!
It’s just like my son trying to get his airsoft air tank refilled at the scuba shop. They won’t refill a new tank, with manufacture date stamped on it, because it does not have an official hydrostatic testing sticker on it. Even though the tank is officially good and certified by the manufacturer for 5 years…just doesn’t have that sticker. So they won’t touch it because of the lawyers.
There is absolutely NO difference between old, rusty factory filled container that you found somewhere forgotten (but still full, never used) and refilled one. And btw if anything happens, nobody can tell if the canister was refilled or not – you are filling it with exactly the same stuff. But of course you can be prosecuted for using canister in pitiful condition nevertheless…
I am amazed how you people think that if it is factory filled it is somewhat 100% safe and worry-free (completely ignoring the actual condition) compared to refilled ones that are pure evil…
Take it either way but See I’m reasonably intelligent and at one time took every precaution imaginable but after time I tend to become lackadaisical call it lazy, jaded whatever. Anyways one winter I was filling a green or blue idk. So I brought the 20#er inside “you know” warn cold trick. Anyways I use a stove to heat and at this time have had the door cracked on the fire. Long story short I Disconnected the fill bottle and as some of you may be aware of ,sometimes the valves stick spraying pressurized gas. Well guess what ” it stuck” and instead of just reconnecting quick like I should have. Instead I was headed for the door when next thing all I seen was orange and a sec later when it went away. I was standing holding the bottle with a flame over foot long shooting out it. Yet all in all Nothing really happened. The house didn’t catch fire,I had no severe burn, just singed hair. After throwing it outside went in making sure the few papers that was smoking was out. I still refill.
Nobody that is reasonably intelligent would have attempted to refill a propane bottle inside your home right next to a wood burning stove. Might as well light up a cigarette while filling the tank next time.
LOL exactly. Refilling propane next to open flames is the worst scenario you can do. I don’t blame the manufacturers they write do not refill, when people like this try to refill it…
*sigh* So many commenters have bought into the fear mongering of this article and are perpetuating so many falsehoods that it really hurts your position when the lies are easily dis-proven.
First of all, small cylinders are more then structurally sufficient for many refills. they’re nearly 1/8″ thick at the ends and slightly less in the middle section, and i know this because i’ve cut a couple of them in half (after filling with water to ensure there was no propane left inside) to use them as a crucible for melting aluminum.
And yes, there is a bleeder valve right on top next to the main valve. Grab the center pin and pull upward and it vents the non-compressable gas, allowing for propane to fill the bottle. It’s best to keep the 1lb bottle’s valve at 10 O’clock so it won’t over-fill.
Oh, oh — fear, uncertainty, doubt! Fantastic marketing / sales tools. But hey, can we get real for a minute?
1) “You might overfill those disposable cylindars”! But then you comment further down about how hard it is to even get those things completely full! Anybody who refills their own cylinders will tell you they basically never get the thing back up to a full pound. So “overfilling” is clearly not a real problem.
2) Oh no, that thin metal expanding and contracting. Again, there are no documented cases of real-world failures caused by metal fatigue! And think about it, those canisters traveling around all the time. Getting hot, getting cold, changing altitude. Nobody worries all that expansion and contraction is going to cause a failure. Because it won’t
3) The DOT is going to fine you. No. Those laws are targeted at filling a lot of containers and trying to sell and ship them to end-users. DOT doesn’t really care if you are carrying a refilled container for personal use.
Propane lanterns, like Coleman, (and other small appliances like plumbers torches, camp stoves, small heaters etc.) all use high pressure fuel. They have no pressure regulator, and rely instead on a very tiny, almost microscopic, orifice in the valve assembly to meter the correct amount of vaporized LP gas to function. These use small 14 oz. throwaway cylinders that have very clean filtered fuel in them, when you buy them new. Problems can happen when folks refill these disposable tanks from a bulk bottle, such as a 20 lb. barbecue tank. The refill adapter goes between the 2 tanks, and you turn the bulk bottle upside down to get liquid to flow into the small bottle. The bulk 20 lb. tanks often have (oil, grease, dirt, rust) in the bottom of them from where they are refilled at gas stations and LP gas vendors. Not an issue if you only use them upright, but flipping it over to refill the disposable ones may contaminate them. They then clog your lanterns, and you end up with a collection of non working lanterns. You can safely use your lanterns and camp stoves from a bulk tank with a manifold adapter post (kept upright, you only get vapor from the bulk tank, and that won’t clog up your lanterns). It should also be mentioned that in most places it is illegal to transport the refilled small 14 oz bottles in a vehicle. Contamination can cause their self closing valves to leak and make a fire or explosion in the vehicle.
These small lanterns can be a bargain at a yard sale, but have a new small throwaway bottle with you to test it on and make sure it isn’t clogged.
I basically distill my propane that I use to refill my propane torch. I put the small propane bottle in the freezer and run a small hose to the big tank, takes around 0.5-1hour to transfer but the propane is 100% pure as I use only the gas phase from the big tank this way.
Great advertisement! Reads like you got that info right off the Flame King site. I’m not saying there is anything wrong with Flame King — but sales through FUD (fear, uncertainty, doubt) is bad business.