By Mike Gast
My good friend Chuck Woodbury and I were talking recently about electric vehicles (EVs). (You may remember Chuck as the writer in this space for the past 1,000 issues!) How soon would it be, we wondered, until campground owners would be dealing with EV owners showing up, desperate to plug in for an electronic “refill” of their goofy e-car? We laughed about the possibility, in some distant future, of an electric vehicle towing its own RV.
Well, take a look at the photo at the top of this story. That’s a Tesla, towing an Airstream Bambi, pulling out of a campground recently just south of San Francisco. The future, I’m afraid, has already arrived and it’s looking for a place to plug in.
There are a few visionary RV park owners out there who have already installed standalone, pay-to-plug EV charging stations at their parks, generating a bit of a cashflow from the new Green Economy. Most of the dedicated EV charging stations can “rapid charge” a car from empty to full in about an hour-and-a-half. Most EV users are just passing through, and only using campgrounds as filling stations if it’s allowed.
Is charging up at a campground safe?
But most campground owners will soon be faced with the dilemma of deciding whether to allow more long-distance electronic vehicle owners to plug their fancy adapters into existing 50-amp site power pedestals. Doing so might tie up a site for several hours. With campgrounds bulging full this summer, there are bound to be conflicts.
The power pedestal folks are warning that charging EVs on traditional campground pedestals isn’t smart for the car or the campground. Both could be damaged if things aren’t done perfectly.
And imagine the turmoil when a 40-foot class A diesel pusher arrives with an electric vehicle in tow. That overnight RVer will certainly want to plug their EV into the 50-amp to recharge, and likely use a 30-amp adapter to draw power to their RV at the same time from the same pedestal to power those two air conditioners, umpteen televisions and an occasional burst from the microwave. Not many campground power grids will survive that amperage draw.
State governments, especially in California, are hot to entice more “green” development and e-charging stations by dispersing valuable “Green Credits” and other incentives. No doubt, the newly green Executive Branch in D.C. will also be sweetening the pot.
What new electric vehicles should you be on the lookout for?
Ford just unveiled an all-electric F-150 truck. Tesla is set to start producing their 250-mile-range pickup in 2022. And we know there are all-electric motorhomes on the drawing board. Winnebago unveiled their prototype way back in 2018, and Camping World has a partnership with Lordstown Motors to create an all-electric RV.
A German company called WOF began actually selling its Iridium EV RV in 2019 in Europe. That rig has a whopping range of 124 miles per full charge, which makes for a rather frustrating cross-country trip. But battery enhancements are happening every day. Campground owners ignore this electronic future at their own peril.
What’s next?
The issues brought on by electric vehicles for both RVers and campgrounds are many. How can you efficiently provide charging stations? When should you consider purchasing your own EV? When will we see all-electric RVs on the market? How far can you really expect to travel in a day with an EV?
The questions regarding electric vehicles and the future of RVing are endless. In the coming weeks, we’ll take a look at the stuff we think you should know on the subject. We also welcome your questions regarding EVs and the future, and we promise to do our best to provide you answers.
Stay tuned. We’ve got a lot to talk about.
##RVT1001
In your next articles in this series, may I respectfully request a little more neutral writing angle? From this article I can clearly infer how you feel about alternative fuel and electric vehicles. Thank you!
The HYPE is overwhelming. EV is a fraud. Want neutral – where are the facts and not the EV hype?
Chinese mines. Massive pollution from hundreds of them digging for rare earth minerals. Look the other way because it isn’t here?
US doesn’t pollute. PERIOD. This is 100% folly. There is NO way America stops gas cars in 2035 – wake up to the lies.
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Spot on, SaveSC. How come we never hear ANYTHING about nuclear power anymore? And wind generators / solar panels will never replace our current ‘power grid’ producers. They are just not reliable. Look what happened in Texas. We’re working on it, but remember the fed jump on replacing incandescent bulbs with CFL piggy tail bulbs? What happened to THEM? LED’s showed up and blew them away. Another case of the government jumping on a bandwagon – too soon. And why do I have to help pay for someone else’s electric car with tax incentives and subsidies?
There was no hype in this article…in fact it gave a nod to impossible and financially incompetent tech being adopted anyway. Basic math says wind pays for itself in 75 years with zero maintenance (most fail in 10 years) and solar production pollutes MANY times more than the coal it replaces. When people talk about “free” solar panels and incentives, that are supporting mugging their taxed neighbors so they can feel good about polluting with a myth.
Kasey, today’s article was an essay (opinion) piece, and I sure don’t expect everyone to agree with my thoughts down the line. Facts are stated as facts, and as you deduced, opinions are pretty easy to identify too.
Also, Kasey, I want to be clear that my opinion of EV vehicles and alternative fuels is totally positive. I’m all for it! My opinion comes in when I wrote that most campgrounds are far from ready for what’s coming their way.
Chuck, It will take a few years to recognize the extent of this problem. Minor question, are EV’s towable 4 down?
RV camps will be slow to add EV charging stations without the population density of EV’s increasing. A missed expense that must be recovered by the park.
As of now, no EV is towable 4 down. I’ve heard the Hummer will be (maybe?) but most gassers won’t be able to tow that much weight.
I agree Kasey, we are in a long transition period, which will make everything as we know it, be different down the line. Parks have trouble now handling all the power and I hope we see lots of solutions as we all go forward.
Ok, except for the moment that the world’s oil supply is not an unlimited tap open forever. Once the tap is dry what would you propose? Should we start researching alternative propulsion at that point? No, we seem to be, for once, on the correct path. Most of the rest of the motoring world has already gone way ahead of us here in adopting EVs as the future’s motive power. Europe and Asia are way past us in building the infrastructure we are going to need if we want to continue having motor vehicles.
My question is: what source of alternative to fossil fuel do YOU propose, coal? Cow manure? Will we ever stop denying what is scientifically factual and accept true, proven FACTS? Sticking heads into the ground and denying what the scientists told us almost killed us all over the past 15 months.
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There’s NO infrastructure to deliver electricity in volume. CA Camp Fire has PG&E turning OFF power so no more fires. CA buys 50% of its power from other states – 50% IS NATURAL GAS POWERED.
Minerals needed for batteries and solar panels only available in China mines. New mines needed and the pollution they will cause exceeds natural gas right here in USA. Pollution- lead time? Minimum 10 years for a new mine – we need dozens upon dozens.
Ford F 150 EV – 41 minutes for 80% charge after towing 150 miles?
America has almost 1,000 years of NATURAL GAS in the ground NOW. CA has nat gas piped to 60% of homes. EV instead of converting to readily available nat gas? Look at trash trucks, utility company trucks, muni buses – all nat gas.
EV HYPE – NEVER HAPPEN IN OUR LIFETIME BECAUSE THE MATERIALS AND INFRASTRUCT. NAT GA
Amen. Regarding China, they use slave labor. But we look the other way. California is in the process of banning appliances using natural gas with the goal of banning natural gas. What happens when everyone plugs in! Sadly, the only solution would be nuclear energy, the new and improved safer version, which they can’t get approved because of pressure from the minority of “green” groups protesting. Oh, BTW, we can’t run our 2 A/C’s on 30 amps and definitely not with using anything else. Glad we are at the end of our RV’ing days and got to enjoy the last 30!
No it is not ‘slave’ labor in China. The labor market is quite competitive in most areas of the country and wages continue moving higher to both attract and maintain workers. In many factories the workers receive a dorm room and receive three good meals on a daily basis. Yes the hours worked are long in often crowded conditions without the climate controlled environment we are all accustomed to. But they are all there working because they want to do so and aren’t being forced; changing jobs between competing factories is quite common. Having been there numerous times and visited likely several hundred factories I feel very qualified to say that the factory workers are not at all ‘slaves’.
Maybe ask the Uighurs. Oh you can’t, because they are in internment/re-education camps in Xinjiang province. This has been reported on by human rights groups & major news organizations. Satellite photos have shown the camps.
I agree with SaveSC. I have a 4 ft long by 2 ft square tool box which I rarely use in front of my 5th wheel hitch in a 250 Ford pickup 6.2 gas. I could easily install a 5 ft CNG tank there. This is a very practical and simple conversion from gasoline. And I believe there will be an electronic dual fuel CNG/GAS-DIESEL Injection system switch available for those who prefer both. Electric vehicles. Electric tow vehicles for heavy trailers especially 5th wheels won’t meet the towing distances or cost for the average person for many many years. There would have to be a battery technological discovery to triple their current amp-hour output. Ford claims 300 miles on their F-150 Lariat or Platinum upgrade. They didn’t give any range numbers when towing.1800# payload 8000-10,000# tow rating is all they give. I know the have very high torque numbers, but towing range numbers are required. Most rv’ers need a 300 to 400 mile range under max load.
I’ve just announced my GoGreenRV 2021/22 tour where I’ll be studying everything from the EV impact on the US power grid, campground charging issues, lithium availability, EV mileage while towing, EV Toads, and first responder safety. I don’t do politics and I work hard to keep any personal bias out of my findings, so this study will focus on the actual numbers. Read about it here: https://www.rvtravel.com/rv-electricity-gogreenrv-announcement-rvt-1001/
Good stuff, Mike. I hope you’ll be posting this on your RV Electricity Group on FB.
Yes I am…
Folks, its called infrastructure and we need to invest and upgrade it now. We all saw what happened in Texas during the Feb. freeze, it could have all been avoided with a little investment and upgrade. We know EV’s are coming, lets get on board now and not get caught with our pants down.
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It’s a very real question about a very real issue, but I’m afraid this piece has a decidedly anti-EV slant. I’d love to see the question approached from a balanced perspective.
Having said that: it’s clearly not going to be possible to allow EVs to recharge at campground pedestals, just because no campground system can handle that much extra load. The “load factor” of a bunch of RVs is small compared to the draw of a recharging EV, and campground systems are designed accordingly. So RV Park owners will need to put appropriate rules in place PDQ to prevent serious issues. I’m looking forward to more, and more balanced discussion…
Don. There’s no Anti-EV slant intent in my article today. I’m very pro EV, and didn’t want to get into the politics of “green” (yet). We might argue those points a bit later. Today, I just wanted to convey what’s coming to RV parks and discuss the fact that few parks are ready for the time more EVs roll in.
Mike, while there may not have been a negative slant to your piece, the unintended tone sounded a bit fearful to my ear. I look forward to your columns sharing examples of what smart, capable campground owners and other industry folks are doing to help RV lifestyle fans move forward into the future. Congratulations on your new position!
Yep, it’s going to be an adjustment and a transition. But it’s coming. Smart business owners will invest to accommodate it. Companies that made their fortunes on fossil fuels already are investing heavily – they can see the writing on the wall and didn’t make their billions by being short-sighted and stupid. Improving infrastructure will be a large part of the growth, and will create jobs, despite the negative nabobs. Free market, folks.
The naysaying by some commenters here reminds me of the ignorant conversations occurring when trains, horseless carriages and airplanes were first introduced. It also reminds me of the head-in-the-sand arguments spewed for years that ‘green energy is going nowhere’. My own father, who made his living by working for a petrochemical company, still, to this day (at 93) claims that green energy will never succeed. After getting solar installed 😉
Campgrounds sell firewood and some refill propane, perhaps a separate charging station is just around the corner. Many of the monster RV’s are electrical power hogs already, I have heard of multiple pedestals already. One night you will awaken as your A/C goes off because
power hog next to you unplugged your shore line.
I’m already in discussion about this issue. Stay tuned…
Range of an EV towing will be reduced, maybe by half. Motor overheating may also be a problem as well
That”s part of my GGRV towing test. I’ll be publishing data on my own real-world towing tests, not some marketing hype. I’m guesstimating a 30% reduction in towing mileage, but I could be off by plus or minus 15% depending on the wind resistance of the trailer.
Take a look at “Mortons on the Move”. They have a huge (by RV standards) solar system on their fifth wheel that is used to charge their electric car! Of course, being an electrical engineer helps when designing a system that can power both an RV and an electric car.
One more alternative to electrical tow vehicles is hydrogen fuel cells. The most environmentally friendly source of vehicle power.
I’m a Tesla owner – not necessarily because I’m all in on Green Energy but because I like the car. The depiction of the Tesla towing a Air Stream I suspect is photo shopped as I’m fairly certain none of their current production cars can tow anything. The truck which their coming out with may be able to tow. Some factors to consider is that at least one or two of their models are aluminum with all kinds of plastics, massive amounts of electronics made in Green factories ??? using electricity that is probably produced to some degree by fossil fuel. Can and should we pursue non fossil fuel transportation – certainly but don’t get all excited about a Electric Car that you think is the answer to getting off fossil fuel. I love my Tesla and enjoy it as much as any car I’ve ever owned but it’s not something that will be the answer to getting off of fossil products unless it goes through a nearly 100% change. I personally think Hydrogen may well be the future but it’s technology has not evolve
Roger, I can verify that the photo of the towing Tesla is a real deal. It was supplied to me from a trusted campground owner who also owns a Chevron station that has Tesla charging stations. He sent the photo to me straight from his cell phone, no alterations.
Mike,
I’m positive your friend did Not photoshop this picture. The towing capacity for the Tesla Y is 3,500lbs. The towing capacity for the Tesla X is 5,000. Here are a couple interesting articles about Tesla’s and towing. https://electrek.co/2020/06/27/tesla-model-y-tow-package-strange-detail-towing-capacity/
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1122487_towing-a-camper-with-a-tesla-model-x-thank-elon-for-superchargers
It’s a Model X, can’t they tow a light trailer?
Here is a good explanation of the current state of technology
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=engineering+explained&&view=detail&mid=97EBDDFB69A4762126E197EBDDFB69A4762126E1&&FORM=VRDGAR&ru=%2Fvideos%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dengineering%2Bexplained%26FORM%3DHDRSC3
There’s already a dozen videos on Youtube (Fast Lane Truck was the latest one I saw) with a Tesla Model X towing a 16-19′ travel trailer. It appears the routine is: tow for 90 minutes, charge for 90 minutes, repeat until you arrive at the campground. The EV towing thing is years away.
I’m accustomed to campgrounds charging a $3-5 per day as an air conditioning surcharge. I’d like to see something a bit higher than that for people that want to charge up their EV.
I am all for a metered “pay-what-you-use” connection at an RV campground. We have a B-class van and are also very conscientious about our energy use. I often look at the much larger rigs around us and wonder why we are paying the same fee when others clearly are using so much more!
DL, some states and municipalities don’t allow the “resale” by campgrounds of electricity. That means no separate metering allowed.
you are right. I have an older motorhome and my electric runs $40 to $90 depending on the season and how much I use my electric heater. The MH next to me is newer with more electrical plus w/d. Their electric runs $150 – 250 a month. So for people coming in over night or a week where the electric is included in their rent the power usage is uneven. Otherwise smaller trailers are paying for big rig electric.
Not totally true..many campgrounds now have an up charge for 50A sites. But I am 77 and by the time this is an issue to deal with, I will be gone! LOL
For a few years we have seen many tout using “Free” electric power to heat your RV. I know I have seen a few campgrounds with electric meters at their sites. I am surprised that there aren’t more doing that. I will wager that it will not be too long before we see Electric pedestals in campgrounds with slots for your credit card just as we have now have on gas pumps. I bet that if we had Facebook and the Internet back in 1903 before the Model T was introduced, many here would be claiming that there aren’t enough pharmacies to provide that dangerous gasoline, “In 1905, as the United States manufactured 25,000 automobiles a year, Sylvanus Bowser developed a pump to safely transfer gasoline from a barrel into a car’s tank.” Note, I am one of those radicals that believe in Science. Even though I live in NE Ohio with lots of cloud cover we are enjoying an $800 a year savings on our electric bill due to our Solar panels
In 10 years, you will have saved $8000 on your bill… …and (most likely) have cost your neighbors 40,000 in incentives, released 3X as much CO2 to make panels as power plant would have, and polluted China mining…
Yes you saved $800 for a year. How many years will it take to recoup you install costs? and don’t forget in 10 years you will have to replace those panels. and in those 10 years you will probably need to replace your storage battery’s at least twice. what will those cost you?
EV BECOMES A REALITY – $300 NIGHT SOUNDS ABOUT RIGHT TO RECOUP COSTS AND ONGOING EXPENSES.
GONNA GO USE YOUR ELECTRIC RV AT $300/NIGHT?
YELLOWSTONE, YOSEMITE, ZION, GREAT SMOKIES – ALL EV?
CHINA WILL OWN AMERICA IF WE GO THIS ROUTE.
Most R.V. parks are wired to the spec’s at the time of construction of the code of that year. You can’t just install charging stations at each of the pedestal at the campsites and call it good. I’ve talked to a owner of a R.V. park in Northern California (150 sites) about installing electrical upgrades for charging E.V.s. His reply was it would run the park around $500,000 for all under ground upgrades to charging stations. He also said they are booked solid for the next 6 months so the question is where’s the incentive to catering to these small number of E.V. owners?
Mike’s research will be “neutral” and fact-based, unlike the hype and lies we hear on the local and national news. I can’t wait to see his results.
Are RV pedestals wired to accommodate a 50 amp draw on 1 plug, 30 amps and a 20 amps on the other? that’s 100 amps! Are the 50, 30 and 20 amp plugs individually home run back to a main central breaker box and then have their own breakers in a that box? I think not, more than likely the local box is fed from a central box with a 50 amp supply and then separate protective breakers for 50, 30 and 20 amp outlets at each campsite.
Joe, that is certainly a main issue for campgrounds. Multiple draws will likely pop the breakers, if you’re lucky.
David, in an earlier post, is right. Hydrogen powered vehicles will supercede electric cars in reliability, emissions, safety, performance and driving range. The best part is that private hydrogen cuts the government operated and controlled public utilities out of the equation. All electricity supplied to customers at charging stations comes from the nearest power plant. All these power plants generate electricity from burning coal, natural gas, or from nuclear power. There are only a few nuclear plants left in the U.S. Now, since we have stopped producing almost all of our own petroleum, the unstable Middle East is again, doing it for us; powering our electricity power plants and our cars. Electric cars pollute and burn petroleum too; only it comes from the power plants not a tailpipe. Privately produced hydrogen will free cars from pollution, government interference and petro countries which vow to destroy us and Israel.
And where do you get the hydrogen from? The sun? (and I’m not talking solar energy).
Hydrogen comes from 2 methods, both use electricity. One uses electrolysis of water and the other conversion of natural gas.
My only comment about the article is that practical EV RV’s are still a long ways off, and as the article said there are no end to the questions, and even more answers, useless or otherwise. And don’t forget, the technology used in EV’s is evolving faster than we can measure. However the best part of this article is reading the comments. They are mostly just opinions, but some of y’all put them out there like they are cold, hard facts. Hilarious.
The fact that many comments are opinion is because most of the info being put out is visionary pipe dreams. A Tesla pickup that “MAY” have 250 mile range, but we are not sure what the camper would look like other than a futuristic mock up rendering. And it is certainly not a 400 HP diesel that can pull a 15000 pound 5th wheel at 65 mph for 500 miles in one day, so maybe a little commuter car is fine, but until we have a viable “realistic” option for pulling trailers, electric vehicles are just a tree-huggers dream.
Amen. Makes me think of all the complaints about automobiles replacing horses a century ago. Scientists have determined that human ideas about how things “ought to be” are pretty much determined by how things were when the person was in their physical prime, about the age of twenty-five. And “it’s all downhill” with the world from that point forward…
Not mine!!!
WE HAVE THE NATURAL GAS – CLEAN AND PLENTIFUL SUBSIDIZE CONVERSIONS
IF CLIMATE WAS THE REAL ISSUE – WE’D GO NATURAL GAS TOMMORROW.
EV IS ABOUT POWER. CHINA POWER. THEY OWN THE MINERALS.
UNDERSTAND AMERICA – GO EV AND CHINA OWNS US.
We recently saw a Tesla with a teardrop trailer in an Idaho state park. They were normal campers (several day stay) and had the car plugged in all the time it was in the site. Many of our parks are already marginal in power supply and I think that electric car charging is going to have to be restricted to dedicated high power charging stations, prohibited from charging in campsites.
Is that before or after the brown outs occur, smoking the electrical systems on all the rest of us.
We had an electric car before RVing and it cost less then $2 a day on house current up charge. With 30 or 50 amp it should charge quick and not cost much.
Tesla may be approached to allow camp grounds to install his solar chargers would cost the site nothing as they are solar powered. He has a good system of bg them across the US.
Gas and there carbon fuels will run out soon (estimate is vf 30 years now last I heard). So this bg may be the future.
“experts” have been predicting running out of dino juice for years. not gonna happen anytime soon.
Agreed! But Russia has now called dibs on the Arctic, where it is thought to be 1/4 of our remaining fossil fuels. They’ve setup missle stations all over the entire Arctic. And we’ve setup the same in Iceland. James Bond returns. I hope no one uses their missles.
Russia’s economy is equivalent to Italy’s. Put that in perspective. You ever look into how backward Russia is. Ever see the motor vehicles they manufacture, no you havnt. You know why, there all JUNK.
America has 1,000 years of PROVEN natural gas reserves. Convert existing vehicles and make new ones to run NG.
Did you know in CALIFORNIA – 60% OF ALL HOMES HAVE NATURAL GAS PIPED TO THE HOME – 60%. Subsidizing the equipment to fill a car or rv tank is nothing compared to the electrical grid, solar, wind and power plant needs.
EV is insanity.
You must have been driving a Nissan Leaf with a low range to only spend $2 for a charge.
It cost $6 in PA for my model 3 from empty to full, which you never do, so yea, a couple bucks a day for a moderate drive is right. Depends on the power company though
“If God had wanted men to ride around in automobiles He never would have given us horses.”
If God didn’t care about how humans use to languish and work long hard hours in virtual darkness for thousands of years, he wouldn’t have let us discover OIL.
Stop with the misinformation, it’s scares people. Through technology, we have unlocked up to at least 100 year supply of Nat Gas, with more to be discovered. Carry on.
Folks we know on Wall Street tell us not 100 Years – 1,000 years – and with current growth levels.
We are 100% energy independent and NOT BENDING OVER TO CHINA.
WHY IS BIDEN TRYING TO FORCE US TO BEND OVER TO CHINA? DIDN’T COVID TEACH US ANYTHING?
Penny – pray tell – you think a solar charger system is going to be the answer for a campground full of ev rv’s? Rolling blackouts. Texas sized outages. The grid is non existent. The minerals needed for mass production of batteries is non existent and years away from production.
New Flash – American has approx 1,000 YEARS of NATURAL GAS RESERVES IN THE GROUND IN AMERICA RIGHT NOW. CLEAN NATURAL GAS.
You won’t see that headline in the NYTimes or WaPo or on MSNBC, ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN. But it is fact. Tesla is a minor car company with minor sales and look at history – ANYWHERE GOVERNMENT SUBSIDIES HAVE BEEN REMOVED TESLA AND EV SALES TANK.
20% of EV car owners in America have gone back to gas – did you know that? Driving 10 miles to work and parking in your garage – probably the only one on your block is one thing. Make it the entire neighborhood – every house, car, truck – not in our lifetime.
WE SHOULD CONVERT TO PLENTIFUL NATURAL GAS NOW.
i will consider an EV only when the range is comparable to a gas vehicle AND i can “re-fuel” in the same amount of time it takes to pump gas. until then no, thanks.
I hear ya, but for 90% of my driving I never stop anywhere to re charge.. Only on my semi monthly trip across my state that I charge anywhere. Other than that I drive 110 miles a day for a couple bucks. In my roughly 29 mpg car I had to pump every 3 days or so, at least. I wasted a lot of time waiting for oil changes, spark plugs and maintenance over the years. Oh and I live in a motorhome and just charge from the 30 amp at my pedestal. Works great
Do you tow your EV behind your motorhome? Is it different from towing a gas vehicle, such as can you tow it with 4 wheels on the ground and engine be ok? I know zero about EVs. Are you usually at one site for weeks & months, or do you move often? Is it tricky setting up to charge at each campground? Do you ever go to rural areas that don’t have enough power, or unreliable power to use? Have you had your EV run out of juice? I watched a good YouTube on some guys in England testing all the EVs in their country, seeing how far they really until empty. Calling a flatbed for an empty “tank” seems not fun. Can you charge your EV via solar panels on your roof?
I envy your fulltime MH + EV situation, I bet it’s been a terrific couple years being ahead of the crowd, and therefore having the best situation. I expect that with everything in the news, in the coming weeks you’ll start getting noticed a bit more than you have been. Do you have a plan B for charging your EV, if the campground won’t let you charge?
Sorry for all the questions, I’m very curious about camping, traveling, and daily living with EVs 🙂
Currently no EV can be flat towed and his claim he’s charging from a 30A plug is a pipe dream or he’s taking a week to charge. This is from the “experts” in the field.
Ok, economics lesson 101 is in order here. You can currently get AWAY with your “couple of bucks” now, but in the alternative universe sector, the greenies dont understand taxation. Close to 40% of petrolium retail pricing is TAX, such INVENTIVE terms as Fed. Excise tax, gasoline tax, not to mention your everyday sales tax . So, as long as your the anomaly, you can skate under the radar, BUT, as soon as the revenue stream from fossil fuel taxes slows sufficiently, guess where the tax repositions, YOUR ELECTRIC BILL. Carry on.
News flash; when pigs can fly!
Absolutely
Hydrogen power has been kicked around for a few decades and has been used in space to generate electricity, they are called fuel cells. Experiments were done on them many years ago to produce electricity for a house. The fuel cell produces electricity, heat and water and can be built as large as a small power generator for a small town. I think it never got legs because people still know about the Hindenburg.
The electric vehicles are a shame, they are not zero emissions as people would believe. Seen the studies on this matter.
Forget the “studies” that’s college lingo. FOSSIL FUELS charge the cars. Carry on.
Excellent article.
Pure hype
I don’t think people realize just how much electricity is required to charge a Tesla. Charging times are given as ‘miles per hour of charge’ or MPH. 220v at 60a you get 25-30 miles. For 300 miles that’s 10-12 hours. The quick charge system is 480v at 300amps. Tesla says ‘up to 170 miles in a 30 min charge’. For 300 miles it’s more like 2 hours.
About 70% of our electricity comes from fossil fuels. I just don’t see an electric grid conversion plan and certainly don’t consider EVs ‘green’.
And we haven’t even started talking large vehicles, trains, ships and aircraft.
Power plants are waaaaaaaay cleaner than a car, make no mistake about that. I sit at a charger for about 20 min. Enough time to eat and go to the bathroom. For a 300 mile charge it’s not even 1 hour, maybe 40 min. I’m not just guessing, I own one.
That sounds nice. Good to be hearing your experiences in the comments. I’ve never had an EV, the insides look beautiful!
We looked into a Tesla solar+battery install for our sticks&bricks last summer, but the ROI was 12-13 years. Didn’t seem prudent when the pandemic was still going crazy back then. Expecting there should be some good incentives from the current administration to buy & install solar. Tesla couldn’t have installed last year before the incentives ended in 2020.
Good incentives = taxpayer money.
Taxpayer money = hyper inflation
Campgrounds will need to put in a lot of new large capacity wiring or have charging stations by the office. Think about the wire size needed if you want to charge one car or truck in a camp site a 1000 feet from the breaker box. Then multiply it by 10 or 20 vehicles. Mike Sokol could write a good article on this.
This all sounds great but as an average bloke looking at this from the 30,000 foot level, it begs the question, “If there is not enough power to keep the AC units running in the summer causing Electrical Brownouts, what makes you think the situation will improve by adding a plethora of EV’s?’ That’s a lot of Made in China Solar Panels. IMHO
Yes! The US doesn’t have any sort of grid to handle this exponential growth of electrical demand.
And YES!!! All of the solar panels, the batteries, the Tesla Powerwalls for home batteries, the accessories, cords, equipment to upgrade everything to hookup vehicles and homes for EV and solar – all of it for the world comes from China!!!
And add in AI, technology, and drones, and you’ve summed up China’s openly stated plan for world dominance before 2035 (due to the pandemic, it is thought that has moved up to 2028 at the latest).
Meanwhile all the countries in the world are going to end up with gargantuan, toxic trash heaps of gas vehicles, gas station tanks and pumps, pipelines, gas lawn mowers. I am even now hearing that we’re supposed to rip out the gas stovetop and gas hot water heater in my home because of the methane. How is all this new manufacturing, shipping, installation, removal, and toxic trash going to help the environment??!
[to be continued… too long…]
Plus, the charging stations are not uniform. Telsa has many across the US, but no other EVs can use them, and visa versa. We need a uniform charging system for everyone to be able to charge at any station for this to work in our mobile country that likes day trips, not to mention all us RVers.
I do support the concept of moving from fossil fuels, the biggest immediate “win” I can see is the health of our kids and grandkids. Less lung diseases, less heart diseases from particles in the air. And yes, long-term we will hopefully stop the damage to our atmosphere and allow it to go back to cooling our planet and making it healthier.
BUT, we must do this all in a MEASURED PACE!!! All the news is jumping like we each have a spare $40,000-$150,000 lying around to buy an EV, get the equipment, change our roofs to panels, add in the home battery systems, and pay the massive jump in taxes from not just maintaining our roads from what used to be a gas tax, but to also pay for the crazy amount of infrastructure needed to manage this whole transition. Make solar and the products in the USA and our partners. Dismantle the old stuff as it wears out, into safe trash that can be turned into new items. Figure out what the heck we are going to do with the hundreds of millions of 1st generation, non-reusable batteries that will be showing up at landfills across the US in the next decade, learn from our mistakes and figure out how to make reusable batteries. Start building items that don’t wear down like the Chinese products, make our business model to be QUALITY that lasts like it did 50+ years ago, when people passed items down through generations and even hundreds of years. Go back to appreciating the work our artisans can do, put them with our greatest thinkers and engineers and see what they can do for us all.
We can do it, but it’s going to be a lot of hard work, and cost a lot for every person.
We also need to remember to stop supporting industries only made in China like solar. If they are allowed to have dominance over the rest of the world, well, we all know why we buy manufacturered goods from China – we all have a NIMBY attitude and let them pollute their own people to manufacture what we want. If they ran the world, it would certainly not be a cleaner, healthier place, because that government does not currently support such ideals. We need to keep aware of that, when we all start complaining about the costs involved in moving to a greener world (me included, it’s going to be rough). Manufacturing cleaner without busting the bank is the future of our country. It is a fine line to walk. I just hope the younger people remember when the US was a leader in manufacturing.
So well said.
Frankly, I believe we are being set up by a well coordinated government/industry cabal. Imagine vehicle builders salivating about replacing every single car in the world!!!! The sales figures boggle the mind.
Meanwhile, the USA has almost 1,000 years of natural gas reserves – known – in the ground today. CLEAN NATURAL GAS AT CHEAP PRICES WITH NOMINAL CONVERSION COSTS TO USE.
We are being lied to. This is 100% control by the few. Between owning our health care and energy – we will have turned 100% control of our entire lives to others with no recourse.
We wake up soon and reverse this insanity before it is too late. 2022 will not come quickly enough. I just hope we don’t hit $4-$5 gallon gas by Labor Day.
I got so pumped reading what you said, I just drove my RV to the gas station to fill it up before they become obsolete. Just kidding. You make too much sense, nobody will believe you!!!
Dennis, if your not a millionaire by now, how is that not possible. EVERY thing you say makes sense. Oh, I know why, common sense has no worth lately, just look around!
I was in a campground in southern Colorado last September when a visitor pulled in at the space occupied next to me. they proceeded to find adaptors and extension cords to charge up the visitors car. while I know that the campers paid to have an electric site, the visitor probably did not pay to charge their car. while the campground was well maintained and run, from what I could tell the electrical system would need some serious up grades to be able to accommodate charging electric vehicles at every site.
I currently own a F 150 with a 500+ mile range empty, and a 300 mile range towing my 8000lb GVWR 5th wheel. at the very best the F150 lightning would only get approximately 100 to 125 miles towing my camper. Not even close for towing or empty!
I do like the Horse power and torque numbers, but those numbers are often measured differently between electric and gas motors. was the electric motor measured with the same method as a gas engine?
Then there is the battery problem!
New Ford F150 EV – towing gets 150 miles on one charge. Biden loved it. By the way – more hype. If you didn’t see – there were 2 steering wheels and controls – he wasn’t even driving it!
That F150 EV needs 41 minutes to recharge to 80%. 150 miles and 41 minutes every time.
Your analysis is dead on. Now let’s talk construction. Cement trucks. Delivery. Long haul. Trains. Soccer moms.
Nowhere is ANYONE – ANYWHERE gearing up any kind of power line infrastructure to deliver this. Where are the new FOSSIL FUEL power plants being planned and built? Windmills and solar – we do not have the materials ANYWHERE in the WORLD to build anything close to 10% of what is needed let alone a 2035 conversion.
Folks – hype and lies. Wake up to what government is doing. Want clean air – convert to natural gas. It is US owned not Chinese. Conversions are massively less expensive than EV. And it is readily available and your existing RV could be converted. EV will destroy the USA.
Once EVs roll out and start taking a larger share of space on the roads and parking lots in the nation we’ll begin to see the advancements in battery technology and overdue electric grid upgrades that will be demanded to support them. The same levels of advancements happened when internal combustion vehicles started rolling out on the primitive dirt roads and wagon trails that were the backbone of America’s byways a century ago, and nary a service station could be found outside of cities. The infrastructure investment and new service industries to support the technology could be a welcome boon to the economy, as well. Interesting days are ahead of us…
So, we burn fossil fuels to generate electricity to charge cars that take hours to top off, as opposed to maybe 4 mins to fill a tank with gasoline. Solar doesn’t work when the sun sets. Wind mills don’t work when the wind is calm. So, it’s night time, and it’s calm out.
Ask the geniuses what you do then. Don’t bother, I’ll answer that for you; have a redundant fossil fuel system to supply the grid demand. If not see Texas this past winter. And the aftermath keeps paying dividends. See the cost of chicken wings lately, that’s because all the chickens FROZE TO DEATH in Texas, after that last boondoggle.
Yep you tell them, the Mamas and Papas had a hit song that tells it all, California Dreamin’.
I purchased a Thor Vegas in 2017 (30A) coach. Also I bought a 2017 Ford C-Max Energi plug in hybrid. It came with a 110v 12A charger. In 2017 we used it with no problems.
In 2018 I purchased a 240V 20A charger for the C-Max. During a trip from California to British Columbia and back, I used both methods of charging. There was only one problem charging with either system concurrently with the RV. One campground only had 20A 110V hookups. With both the RV and C-Max connected the RV Surge Guard disconnected at 109V. Charged the car and then reconnected the RV. At another RV Park with only 20a at the end of a long extension cord we had no problems using two of their cords.
Using commercial charging stations the C-Max will fully charge using 240v in about 2 hours and costs $2.50 to 3.50. With campsites costing north of $50 to $100 there is plenty of profit to cover charging costs.
Right – you are one person going out of his way to do this. Make it everyone mandated with no choice. You think the RV parks are gonna build out a grid and stay at $50/night?
Reality is there is not enough power generation in North America anyway. And not one part of the entire grid anywhere can handle the volume.
Truth? This is all BS. We SHOULD be converting to massively plentiful and totally clean natural gas. Infrastructure exists and conversions of existing motors is a minor cost vs EV.
Rather than bend over to big government and their soon to be enriched benefactors – we the people should be demanding natural gas cars. Your local trash truck, muni bus system and utility company vehicles are all natural gas. No environmental issues with tons of worn out batteries. No mines needed. No giving China power over us.
EV is pure hype for a small number of people to make BILLIONS and more important – to enable government to have total control over our lives using climate change.
You do realize natural gas is a fossil fuel.
Yes natural gas is a fossil fuel and more than 30 % of electricity is generated from natural gas.
Where do I start. This is just media hype. The problem is battery technology. There will be a very small percentage of the population that “embraces” this, thinking they are greenies. Where do you think the energy comes from, FOSSIL FUEL charges those batteries. The grid can’t handle summertime heat waves let alone charging unreliable Teslas.
It’s actually amusing to read all this stuff. If anyone would bother to do the deep dive on battery technology, you would find out that there is no path in the foreseeable future, to charge fast, enough energy, economically, to achieve what is sold to the public in there dumb articles. I hate to break it to you but we are MANY YEARS away from having that magic storage device to facilitate any real application to a electric mode of transportation. Let alone tow a 8,000 lb 5th wheel. Wind mills are not the answer, SEE Texas. Solar is woefully inefficient, they just lie to you, subsidize the purchase, with money the government prints.
Obviously if it’s years away we should just give up now. Wow, could you be more bias? You pushing the Texas lies about wind only prove it.
California has a set goal of zero emissions by 2045. What that means for electricity is solar, wind and importing fossil fired electricity from outside the sate. All new sales of gasoline will be banned by 2035. So if you thoughts and dreams of visiting California in your traditional fuel motorhome or other RV you have 14 years and counting. If California residents hate having total brownouts, blackouts and the awesome rolling blackouts just wait for the electric grid to get overloaded with vehicles charging. At present time their grid can hardly handle the summer electrical draw.
It’s all ready happening, thousands of Californians are trading in the EVs for good old dependable gas burners that they can refuel in 5 minutes and not sit in line for 3 hrs waiting for a charging station that works to recharge for 2 hrs. When the infrastructure is up AND RUNNING then it will be feasible. Until then it’s a pipe dream for the libs.
Wow did you disturb the hornets nest with this article, my comment is your erroneous statement about towing this imaginary EV. Currently no EV cane be flat towed, I probably am mistaken but I think only the Nissan Leaf is front wheel drive where it can be towed on a dolly, and your claim of recharging from empty to full in a couple of hours is a typical journalist pipe dream.
You are mistaken, but only just… We are currently flat towing our jeep Wrangler 4xe around. It has only been out a couple of months, and only had around 25 miles of electric range.
You got me on that, I had forgotten about Jeep, but it’s because you put the transfer case in neutral. I was talking about cars as most use the rear axle to drive with. They haven’t developed a car with a detached drive yet..by the way do they have recharging stations out in the wilderness yet, or is your Jeep just a status symbol like millions of lifted 4WD trucks that only go OFF ROAD when they pull in the driveway. Lol,
Why is this journal jumping on the EV hype wagon? There are so many MORE important issues!
Please – deal with rational issues and not hype. These articles are poorly researched.
I wrote to Ford and offered to be a tester for their new truck. To tow my 26′ TT with full solar hookup. To test to see if the vehicle could be charged from my solar panels through the RV since they tout it as being able to run your house in a power outage.
It’s sad to see so many armchair experts on electric charging around the U.S. We live in the Pacific Northwest where our power comes from hydroelectric dams. So many comments no research.
Aside from the EV discussion.
I feel all campgrounds should go to a metered electric service and a flat fee for the site. I think it’s fairer way to charge.