Leaked documents dated to earlier this week, obtained from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention by Yahoo News, warn that new coronavirus cases are spiking again as Americans relax their social distancing practices.
Is this the widely-feared “second wave” of COVID-19, which could lead to more mass deaths and knock down an economy that’s only starting to recover? It remains unclear — especially because the fight against the virus is going very differently in different areas of the country.
What do you think? Is the worst of the Pandemic behind us, or does trouble lie ahead?
Oh, yes, our regular reminder: It may take a few moments for the poll to load. So stand by. And, of course, your comments are welcome, but please keep them respectful.
COMMENTS CLOSED
After 183 comments, many of them angry and accusatory, we have closed comments. Enough has been said. Let’s move on. . .
Every day between 800 to 1,000 people are dying of CV-19 in the U.S. Several states are reporting increases in infection rates, after “opening up” weeks earlier. One choice is to deny it all as “fake news.” Another choice is to exercise distancing and personal caution. It’s your life, your decision. But CV-19 doesn’t seem to be “going away” anytime soon. Second wave? Scientists who study pandemics are saying yes, the worst is probably yet to come.
Actually, not true. Here is reality. The major cause and demographic of fatality, in this event were; approximately 35% of all deaths were the elderly sent to their death by the govenors of five states. They made the decision (by order), to put infected senior citizens either back into, or force admittance into respective nursing homes after treatment in a hospital, where the facilities were I’ll equipped to handle such infection. It was discovered early that the administrative staff informed the respective health depts. That they can’t handle such cases. In the greater metro NY area as an example, the Hospital Ship which can handle 1,000, (beds utilized approx.150) and the Javets Center 2,900 (beds utilized approx.400) were left virtually empty as the nursing home death rates skyrocketed.
Now here’s the best part, the main stream media covered it up, failed to point it out at any sufficient level, so your reading about it here, at an RV blog site. YOU CANT MAKE THIS STUFF UP PEOPLE! If you don’t start paying attention and learning the truth (Google it) those individuals will be getting away with it, and the inept will continue past November.
I wonder if anyone reading here is planning on attending a T rally because it’s all a hoax and fake news and overblown by the media.
Chris, I’m not a big rally type guy, but I’ll pick you up in my fossil burning MH, give me a call, I bet we have a lot to talk about, if your willing to ride along.
What pandemic? I haven’t heard anything about it on the news in two weeks, so it must be over right?
That’s because burning, looting, have now become the storyline.
Yes, let’s concentrate on that rather than the rampant racism and police brutality which is why they’re out there in the first place.
I love ya man, run for mayor of CHAZ, illmvote for you 🙂
How could anyone possibly vote “no” on this? At the peak, daily deaths were running to up 2300. Not even the worst forecast has projections anywhere near that! Certainly, the epidemic is not over, and it looks like it’ll be a long, maybe even slowly uphill, climb from current levels (about 700/day) until a vaccine is ready. But exceeding 2300 per day? Not likely.
By definition if the pandemic peaked, the worst is over.
No is an easy vote. The left and the media have turned this pandemic into a political tool. They blame additional outbreaks of the virus on the reopening of our country while completely ignoring the masses of asses protesting.
Yeah, why is it that the main stream media doesnt say a word about the rioters and looters failing to “social distance” with themselves. Instead, they call it needed protest to burn and loot. The arrested in some states, werent even held in lock up, but instead, released back onto the streets, to burn and loot some more.
Now, a section of Seattle has become it’s own country, and the Govenor wasn’t even aware it happened, when questioned on TV. Yeah, re-elect that guy, along with the mayor too. Seriously, liberalism needs a new manual, this one is destined to fail, when they will be forced to take that territory back. This is the culmination of allowing the left to instill their version of what society they think should be. Good luck with that, because I guarantee, it’s not going to mend well.
Every bit of coverage I have seen or heard of the protests mentions the inherent risk people are taking to not social distance. Please note that the majority of protesters were wearing masks.
Yep, even now you can wear a mask, into a Bank!!
Uhhh – I didn’t see many protesters wearing masks down here where I live,
Attending that rally in OK?
How is this any different than when Bundy took over a portion of Nevada?
Because you claim they have doesn’t mean it’s true.
And now…What’s to stop terrorists groups, drug dealers, foreign entities, the far right, the far left, gangs, etc. from taking over blocks all across the country (yes, even in your neighborhood) in the name of police brutality (even though this was ONE case, in ONE City. And if you’re going to grandstand about this happening all across the country, you better bring the facts and be prepared to back them up. This is about OPPORTUNITY) and covertly taking over the country block by block? We’ll soon be a country of micro-countries. I just wish the governments would get some B _ _ _ _ and send in the military since the mayors and police are NOT doing their jobs! These are terrorists. Nothing more. Nothing less. This is no longer a protest (especially a peaceful one).
This is now more about a take-over.
You might not believe in Darwinism, but it believes in you.
Yeah. But the govenors of NY, NJ, CT, PA and MI were the instigators, sending countless thousands to their early graves by ORDERING Wuhan virus infected patients in, or back into nursing homes in their respective states. That’s Darwinism on steroids
The strain that hit the east coast was from Europe not China. Sorry.
If that true, and that matters why? Lyme desease!! Origination, Lyme, CT. Corona Virus in 2019, origination, WUHAN, China. Just the facts.
Please stop using the term ‘Wuhan Virus’.
1) The term has racist intent, regardless of how you use it.
2) We’re not even 100% sure it came from Wuhan, that’s just where it first gained a foothold.
3) Citing other historical virus names to justify your use is irrelevant to the issue. Please STOP using that term here.
If you want to see how it’s properly named, go to the WHO website here:
https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/technical-guidance/naming-the-coronavirus-disease-(covid-2019)-and-the-virus-that-causes-it
-Thanks,
Kim
Might be a tough Fall.
We will have 200,000 dead by July 4th and those who say Covid 19 is no big deal don’t care. Want to bet that they will be out in great numbers, not wearing masks, and packed like sardines for the holiday?
How they try to ignore the bodies piling up out of stubborn ignorance is a sad statement about Americans. And when you mention that hundreds of thousands of people have died worldwide they say it all a liberal plot and false news.
As Americans we have the right to be stupid. Precautions to keep yourself safe is a small price to pay, just ask someone who has had Covid 19. You would be surprised how many there are, or not.
Heard the same said for May 1st then June 1st now July. My wife and I are both high risk and our son had it back in Jan and was real sick but neither of us even got sick even though he lived with us. Paranoia has spread much faster than Covid -19. According to the CDC report yesterday, the number of cases have continued to drop weekly despite most states reopening. The media won’t report that because they want you living in fear.
Roy, your parents raised you well.
200,000 ???…..the news reports this morning by the so called experts indicated
a number like 150,000……..more fake news and rumors.
The conspriacy theories of ‘liberal plot’ and ‘it’s all the media’s fault’ are worse than the disease.
“Critical thinking” and “scientific method” both require asking the question:What if ‘my side’ is wrong???
So, no matter what you think the truth of C19 is, you MUST be willing to ask that question and then examine actual live data rather than speculation. Don’t defer to ambiguous “experts” that have changed their minds 12 times because they never really KNEW anything (those aren’t experts! — As MikeS often says, he may be an expert but he still won’t speak on something electrical until he tests it and KNOWS at least one experimental truth).
The realworld data says that the “conspiracy” folks are, sadly, incredibly, reprehensibly… CORRECT. I didn’t want to believe how evil some power-hungry folks are either until I saw it with my own eyes. But you can’t be in denial once you’ve seen it.
I’ll take my chances with medical science. You can have your conspiracies.
The sky is falling in! The sky is falling in!
There’s that irreducible 37% “base” again! You just can’t fix stupid. Make America Sick Again.
Well there is that group, and I share your scorn for the reckless. But I voted ‘yes’ for ther reasons. Not yes, the virus is behind us and nothing to worry about, but yes, the worst part where we were unprepared and the rate of transmission was rampant is behind us. We have learned some things and people are more cautious about spreading germs. There may well be some bad surges ahead but they will be manageable because we have gathered essential medical equipment, and gotten treatment protocols together.
I voted No, but I believe we are smarter about it and hopefully that will mitigate and our loss will be less severe.
It seems people would rather risk getting sick and call the pandemic a hoax than do some simple precautions to help protect the health of the people around them, their loved ones and yes strangers of a different political belief. Pretty sad state of affairs in the US of A
and blame the media. That one always gets me.
I can’t imagine where this attitude comes from.
I do 🙂 it comes from not reading the science on it. If the spread could have been prevented by not sending sick elderly back into nursing homes, killing thousands and thousands, then why didn’t common sense prevail. The reason; common sense, isn’t so common.
Same when they get the flu…Irresponsible persons can’t stay home. They just HAVE to go to work or send their snot-nosed kids to school to MAKE SURE the rest get it as well. Inconsiderate B’s…It’s just a guess, but IMHO, I think they just don’t know how to budget. It’s not about what you make. It’s about what you save….And for most, they don’t know how.
It should be noted, though, that many employers and education systems don’t tolerate missing work or school days, and have rules as to how many days or instances one may miss, and some actively harass employees who dare take sick days (or parents who believe it best to keep a feverish Johnny or a hacking Jane home an extra day). It’s my hope that Covid-19 will awaken such companies’ and organizations’ managements to the benefits of rest, recuperation, and returning to work (or school) in good health.
Happy, you sure got that one right.
Correct. If we truly want to “get over” this pandemic and have a healthier society in general we need universal health care and mandatory sick leave.
I couldn’t answer yes or no. The only correct answer is maybe it’s on the decline or maybe it’s going to rear it’s ugly head again.
Am I going to take precautions? Yes. Am I going to play Chicken Little and proclaim the sky is falling? No.
The pandemic is NOT over. It will not be over until one of two things happens: (1) there is an effective readily available and affordable vaccine, or (2), the human race is able to develop immunity to it. Nobody knows how long either of those will take. Until then, people who try to return to their previous way of life, eschewing devices and measures that reduce their individual risk or contracting it, will eventually contract the virus.
As for the virus itself, it will never go away. It will continue to exist on this planet as long as there are animals (including us) for it to infect. If we’re ever able to eradicate it, it will take decades if not longer. Smallpox has been with us since at least 300 BC. We’ve known how to vaccinate for it since 1797. The last naturally occurring case was in 1977. It took A HUNDRED AND EIGHTY YEARS to eradicate it.
I expect that COVID-19 will join the list of diseased for which children will routinely be vaccinated, along with smallpox, polio, rubella and others. These diseases are on the way toward being eliminated, but they will also remain with us as long as there are parents who refuse to vaccinate their children.
I agree with all of what you say except the part about “the human race” developing immunity – which can’t happen unless our species were to undergo some radical, fundamental changes (the elimination of the 2 enzymes that facilitate infection in (a) lung tissue cells, and (b) other tissue cells). As long as the virus operates as it does, and those 2 enzymes (which are critically necessary for our bodies to function) exist in all people, there will be no innate immunity. The only way we’ll be able to deal with this virus is through some combination of herd immunity, meaning some percentage of the population recovered from a *recent* infection (unlike measles, indications are that immunity for this virus is probably *not* going to last for life or even for long) PLUS a high rate of innoculation, *annually* given the short duration of immunity. In other words, this virus will probably be with us for the foreseeable future, like influenza. But because of its potential to cause permanent lung and organ damage as well as death, in addition to effective vaccines, there will also need to be effective treatments. Given a few years, I believe we will have both – but research takes time. With the current level of international effort, both will happen faster than they would if this virus were not an entirely new threat to *everyone*. Effective treatment will require a fuller understanding of how so many different symptoms can arise from a single virus. Early indications are that unlike influenza, SARS and MERS, which infect only the cells of the lungs and airways (with the help of the first enzyme mentioned above, which is present on the surface of these cells), this virus is able to infect vascular and organ tissues also (with the help of a second enzyme, which is present on those cells.) So in addition to seasonal flu (influenza), we’ll probably have this one circulating indefinitely as well. Because immunity is not permanent, until we can maintain a very high level of vaccination, a high level of testing, and the ability to trace and quarantine the recent contacts of known cases, the only way we have to control the virus is through sanitation, and an effective level of social distancing. Without a high enough rate of testing and contact tracing and quarantine, as measures are relaxed we will see an increase in the rates of infection. This virus is NOT the flu, but it has some parallels, so here’s a history of influenza for those who are interested:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_influenza
Rich I was with you until wiki was referenced. Stick with more traditional sourcing, it will bode you Well in your future endeavors.
BBT – I never consult only a single source. Wikipedia is just a convenient first stop. Fortunately, Wikipedia adheres to the same rules as any information seeking to be authoritative, by citing its own sources and authors. Following up with other sources I have found as well as those cited in Wikipedia, I can generally arrive at what I consider a reasonable facsimile of truth. Like Wikipedia, my own “truth” is subject to revision as better, more authentic information (first-hand accounts, opposing views, if applicable to the situation, and information with greater depth and expertise) becomes available.
At least he cited something. When are you going to start?
The Media should be held accountable by taking their license away. It’s nothing but politically biased, opinionated and all about ratings. Higher ratings…more advertising income. Fatter paychecks at the top. One might as well be watching the National Inquirer. Very little responsible and “fact” finding. I’ve personally turned off the TV for the last two months. Are you not tired of it as well? Free speech may be free but when it comes to the NEWS, there should be facts only and none of the above. Write to those TV commercial sponsors. Tell them you will no longer buy their products due to the above. Then maybe they will pull their advertising budgets away from TV channels. Maybe then there will be a wakeup call in the news.
The fact remains that the virus is still out there and until someone gets it, they deny it even exists. Its the old “it can never happen to me” mentality.
Some say round two in inevitable. I say round 1 hasn’t even ended yet. And it won’t thanks to those irresponsible idiots out there.
I’m not tired of knowing what’s going on, no. If I want total nonsense i’ll watch Fox.
On a side note; if indictments are handed down from the US Attorney for laws being broken from events occuring 2016, 2017 and 2018, you might want to keep your options open, just sayin`Or you could wait a while until it gets to “other outlets”.
The comment “until someone gets it they deny it exists” caught my eye… I’ve had it, and it was bad — but not as bad as a severe flu I had a couple years ago. And no, this is not the end of round 1 — This Spring was the 6th round by most estimates. It’s been here for quite a while, and people have been getting it for a while and not knowing what “that strange new flu” was with a label on it. The random antibody tests show not only massive exposure rates, but that they aren’t NEW exposures. I am NOT trivializing the C19 virus; it IS a “nasty meany” and some people have died from it including some here on RVT. BUT, it’s not the new plague the media keeps harping on — it IS a false-flag operation, and as such we should all be a lot more nervous of what that goal is than of the virus which WILL pass.
WTH is a false flag operation? I never get tired of hearing internet experts. There sure are a lot of them, especially the ones who own RVs.
So do the “media” take a test or something to become “licensed”? Who administers the test and issues the license? Could it be that you don’t really understand how the world works after all? If licenses *were* required, you can be sure that there would not be so many crackpot conspiracy theories seeping around on social media and dark little corners of the internet. Instead, media would be *required* to check their facts, present their sources (as scholars scientists do) rather than invent them, and they would be required to retract non-factual stories as professional, responsible media outlets have always done.
Careful where you put your head – certain nasty things that are more powerful than any virus or cancer will stick to it.
TV Station Licenses – Mandatory: YES
https://www.fcc.gov/media/radio/how-to-apply
I have relatives that work there…
Here is another other reference:
https://www.fcc.gov/media/television/broadcast-television-license-renewal
And by the way…So are radio stations:
https://www.fcc.gov/consumers/guides/low-power-fm-lpfm-radio
I agree T-Man…IMO, the main stream media has become political propaganda, full of opinion, supporting one political side only. The media scare mongering concerning the “pandemic” is nothing short of brainwashing. It’s shameful and completely irresponsible what they report. The media has an agenda, it’s not veiled, disguised or masked… it’s blatant. And they don’t even care anymore.
The MSM, the favorite whipping boy of the right. Whenever they say things you don’t like, it must be propaganda. If I want propaganda and lies I’ll tune in OAN or Fox.
Tune into any of them…They are ALL biased and spread propaganda. I thought that was only in countries like Russia, China, North Korea or Iran. But apparently, its here as well. CNN is so bad, no on watches it on the left or right.
What is CNN?
communist non-news network (or communistic propaganda)
Not enough option. Yes problems still to come but will they be bigger even than what has already happened? A loaded question allowing to get one answer over the other based on the double meaning. IMHO
Haven’t we learned from the Spanish Flu? In many cases, the second and third waves were worse than the first, and, over a two or three year period several areas were subjected to a further three, four or even five subsequent and less significant waved.
We in Canada are doing a lot better than our neighbours to the south, but even as our daily numbers drop and things start to open again we are seeing pockets of cases again based on individual travel. Some up here and a lot in the USA think this is a propaganda hoax or that it is only killing the elderly. These people haven’t had a family member suffer or god forbid die yet. My family has had two individual contract the virus and although they survived they continue to experience lung and heart problems as well as memory loss (none of which they experienced before). Look at the number of new cases over the past couple of days across all the southern states alone. I hate to say it but this is far from being over
Whether or not the pandemic is over or not, life has to go on. People need to feed their families and pay their bills. The Government can’t provide for us for ever and it is not meant to. If society buckled every time there was a problem, the pioneers would never have made it to open the West, wars would have been lost and we would never have had space travel. We all must be aware of our surroundings but the spirit of the people is what forces us to go on and persevere.
Be cautious but live on.
Pat is right, whose with me on this. Hurump.
Pat, you make the most sense of all of the posts. The government cannot feed us all unless we can go to work and therefore feed the government. We cannot all stay in our houses and not go to work. We HAVE to open up again.
Fact is the television media has added to the fear level for too many Americans…that plus the
obvious confusion by the so called “experts” who seem to be changing the rules every few days.
Overreaction by panicked politicians has destroyed the best economy seen in America in generations…some governors seem hell-bent on continuing the destruction of local businesses.
Time to open up and save what is left.
The television had added to the knowledge level for most of us, but some of us equate knowledge of something bad as being bad.
Wait, bad is bad, and good is still good, right? Am I missing something here.
This “Pandemic” has never been what it’s been claimed by the media. It was in the news this week that the death toll reached 200,000. The normal flu kills a couple million in the same time frame, this is a perfect example of how easily the news media leads the majority around by the nose blindly believing the media. Yes I took the precautions of the face mask and washing my hands, but I didn’t cower in my home like a frightened mouse. To the people who created the shortage on toilet paper I don’t remember anything being said that this virus caused extreme diarrhea. The virus was more politically based than medically. Yes people died, but more people survived, the media didn’t publish how many survived, only how many died. People should use that grey matter in the heads for something other than separating their ears. Wake up and start thinking with that brain, experts in the field claim the main thing that separates man from animal is our brain is capable of reasoning where animals just react to everything that happens in their life. As another expert on animal once said about our “evolutionary “ development, when we quit swinging through the trees, and no longer used our tails it fell off. Of course if I believed in evolution you would think as long as buzzards have been eating road kill by now they would have evolved enough to drag their meal off the side of the road, no they leave it where it was killed and fly away each time a car comes by. So start using that brain before we lose it.
Compare annual flu deaths in the US to COVID-19 deaths in just a few months. COVID has taken many more lives and is several times deadlier than the flu, with no vaccine yet. I agree with using your grey matter; use it to listen to the experts.
Not completely. The ” experts” called for 2.2 million deaths, albeit I think without mitigation, but not sure. In any event, many articles preached doom and gloom which shut the world economy down. Looking back, using Sweden as a business as usual model, it was way out of proportion. Even better numbers would be the role, if incompetent govenors from several states would have not been so pig headed. But they were arrogant, and in turn, many elderly died. And the only way to make amends is to punish them in November.
This does not make any sense. You want to quote an animal expert about losing our tails and in the next breath suggest you don’t believe evolution. BTW, vultures do pull the dead animals off to the side of the road if they cannot carry it off they will drag it. I own animals and they are quite capable of reasoning. Maybe not on a grand scale as we do, but they don’t have as many decision to make as us either.
This administration has turned your brains to mush, or you have just been angry all your life.
Here is the link to the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) website, where you can compare the statistics for COVID-19 and the current seasonal influenza. This is where you go for the most accurate information concerning diseases of all kinds in the US. After comparing the numbers, you may wish to alter your thinking: https://www.cdc.gov/
The best estimate for influenza deaths in the entire flu season from Oct 2019 to April 4, 2020 (a period of 27 weeks) is 24,000 – 62,000.
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/preliminary-in-season-estimates.htm
Using the upper bound (certainly an overestimate, but…) the rate would be 62,000 / 27 = 2,296 per week
The same figures for COVID-19 since inception (call it January 1st) to today (a period of 24 weeks) is 116,925 https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/
Using the documented COVID deaths, the rate would be 116,925 / 24 = 4,872 per week
This shows that despite all the measures taken, the death rate per week from COVID-19 has so far been more than twice the rate for seasonal flu. The flu season is over – there were 5 recorded deaths in the US from flu in the past week. COVID-19 on the other hand *has no season – 5,435 deaths in the past week* – and furthermore it has no effective vaccine yet, and no effective treatment yet. And it’s just getting started in many places in the US and around the world.
So do you believe the CDC is (a) mistaken, or (b) lying?
Well, because most of us are reliant on them, we have to make up our own minds based on what the total input of information is. But, ill say this. ” Hi, im from the government and im here to help you”, always made me a wee bit skeptical.
What is that old saying, lies, damn lies and statistics?
A healthy dose of skepticism is never a bad thing. But you have to follow that up with actually doing the research into the numbers yourself if you want to form an alternative set of conclusions from the data.
Or, we can let the really smart people gather the data and summarize it for the rest of us.
Rich put out some good numbers and links, go read them and if you can find a different conclusion to back up your earlier statements then your skepticism is warranted. If not, then maybe whoa up a little on the “guvmint”.
Wolfe, where do you get your information? Please fill us all in.
As soon as the genome for covid was sequenced they knew it was not “made in a lab” In the US covid has killed 115,000 in the US and 429,000 world wide. Highest number for this years flu in the US is 62,000 and it’s over… Covid is not. So “tiny fraction”? How many deaths will it take to get your attention?
Again, “masks proven useless and dangerous”, references please. If they are so useless, why do our health workers wear them?
You can believe anything you want and act on it, within the law. But, anyone else reading Wolfe’s post, please fact check it. For those that can read a graph (especially one plotted in a log scale) go back and look at the infection rates before the shutdown. It does confirm the need to act and also show as a whole we slowed things down a lot.
https://www.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6
Wear the mask, social distance and hygiene… all we have if you want to stay open.
fear will hold this country down. take off the mask, hug, kiss, love, and get on with life.
Attending that rally in OK?
Chris, please be polite. Gary has a right to his opinion even if we don’t agree with it.
Gary, it’s your right to say YOU will not wear a mask but please stop advocating for others to follow that advice on this website.
Living in a dream world are you?
The question was “do you think the worst is over?” Yes, I do. Why….because we know about it and we know how to help ourselves stay safer until a vaccine is available. Just because states are opening up doesn’t mean we should all rush out and kiss and hug everyone. No, masks, social distancing and good hand washing are still the best way of keeping yourself and others safe. The media is not the enemy, it is the folks out there that think they are invincible and sometimes there needs to be some scare tactics used to get into some heads. And, please, do not assume just because some of us voted in the 37% we are the “base”…….I am far from it!
Finally, something sensible being said on here.
I agree but add:
– Hospitals made a lot of mistakes in the early weeks such as killing people by putting them on ventilators.
– A high percentage of the deaths have been in nursing homes.
– The NYC mayor and NY governor made a lot of mistakes that led to their high death rate such as: telling people the subway was safe and not only ignoring nursing homes but dumping infected people there to die.
The media has been too focused on deaths and not enough on the estimated 20% of those infected that get very very ill. Not just pneumonia but heart inflammation, kidney problems, terrible diarrhea, hallucinations (possibly due to high fever), blood clots, etc.
– A high percentage of the deaths have been in nursing homes.
Do you have a source for this?
Interesting breakdown of the voting. 37% say yes and 63% say no. I see a pattern here.
The worst is over if the government has quit giving the lockdown order, even if there would be a second wave. It has been shown that the cure was worse than the disease.
I think most of the fear of covid is behind us. It will return as most viruses do. We just have to live our lives the same as we do when the flu virus raises its ugly head every year.
You say “return” as if it has gone away, as if 5,400 people had not died within the past week from COVID-19. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/ So are you saying that it’s fear that is killing people – still – or is the virus still with us?
Fear is killing the economy, unnecessarily. It is killing people’s livelihoods.
I will continue to try and stay safe. I will wear my mask, wash my hands and have hand sanitizer stashed everywhere. As someone who had to be revived twice, intubated and in a medically reduced coma, I have to take all precautions. I can tell you that there are issues after you get better that can make your life hell. Wearing a mask is not giving up your rights, it says that you care about other people.
Experts say that the first wave isn’t even over. We’re just barely getting started. In most parts of the country, only a small percentage of people have even had it, and case counts and hospital admissions are going up. Outside of the locations that were hit hard early, you’re more likely to be exposed now than you were a few months ago.
The way people in a lot of places are behaving? “Worst is over” isn’t how I’d describe it. Let’s at least get through the first wave before we declare victory, okay?
The only way to get “over it” is either get exposed to it or get vaccinated. Since a vaccine being developed, tested, manufactured, distributed and folks inoculated is years off and continued demands for staying away from each other, we will never get over Covid. By the way, by the time a vaccine is finally available to the masses, Covid-19 will have mutated into something else making the magic elixer worthless.
I. believe we still have a long way to go with the virus but I think the worst is over. Hopefully we have learned enough about the virus so do what keeps most people safe. The best thing to happen will be when a vaccine is available.
The challenge and the reason I do not believe the worst is behind use is getting people to use (and believe) the knowledge we have gained to to keep each other safe.
This morning the news reported new cases are mostly 20-30 somethings! Protesters? If you aren’t wearing a N-95 rated mask it won’t protect you from a virus ! My daughter works in an ER. she showed me the ratings on masks !!!!
Did she also tell you that the masks that are recommend that the public use (not 95s) are not intended for your protection but the protection of others?
The only reason states are opening is because the economy is in the toilet. . 250000 die in the US each year of regular flu. None this year. Everyone has died of covid19. Getting people back to work restores some normalcy to life. Some people die. some dont show any sign of sickness. My granddaughter and son in law test positive. No sign of diseases. As for my wife and i,we treat this as real and take appropriate measures. And yes mister President, I wear a mask.
Thomas According to CDC the death rate for flu each year in the USA is 20,000-60,000 depending on the year not 250,000.
To those who believe the worst is over, that is your right. To those who do not want to wear a mask, that is your right if not prohibited by laws. To those who want to join others in large groups without social distancing, that is your right if not prohibited by laws. For those who don’t believe the death and or hospitalization data, that is your right. To those who do not care if they might contract or might spread Covid-19, I hope you will rethink that idea.
However it is, at least for now, that the majority of those voting, think otherwise. It may be an age factor, it may be a knowledge factor but I think it may also be a common sense factor. The primary reason that this country has, up to now, been able to get some control on this virus is through social distancing and the use of masks.
I am in the highest risk bracket of getting Covid-19. I am well over 65, am diabetic with high blood pressure. I wear a mask, I wear gloves, stay away from crowds and restrict any close contact with family, neighbors and friends. To me that is all common sense.
I sure would like the age breakdown of new hospitalizations by state. That would be another data point to judge what is going on.
To all, Stay safe, Stay well.
Dick and Sandy, your comment was well thought out and expressed. Thank you for showing the courtesy to those of us that choose to not wear a mask. You stay safe as well! By the way. I am originally from Buffalo. i am in Florida since 1986. love it here. All of my relatives are spread out between buffalo and Angola!
As quarantine is being lifted there will be more cases coming, ad to that the protests and the coming political rallies and I think we will see a spike, how long it lasts is not up to the government but to individuals. If we don’t avoid large crowds, frequently washing our hands and ignore other precautions things will get worse. Sweden did not shut down and though their infection rate is higher than ours it was nowhere near the expected rates and will have herd immunity long before any country that followed lockdown procedures. It’s a flu, we know how to avoid the flu so let’s do what we can to protect ourselves and others.
Wish there had been a 3rd choice. I hereby change my vote from yes to no after reading some comments. Do wish the news media reported percentages along with the numbers.
The country as a whole is thought to have a about 15% exposure/antibody/death percentage so far. No other immensities, cure or vaccine. Treatment is getting better as more is learned. A number of states are known to be fudging the numbers or just not testing (why???). Phoenix and a number of other places are close to or over capacity of available ICU beds…. Economically most of the programs run out in August unless extended (likely will, but just my opinion). So no, the worst is not over.
A cloth mask may not be as good as an N-95 pr P-95, but it’s better, a lot better than nothing. Good to have 2 cloth masks. If you think the one you have on has been contaminated, swap to the fresh one before any droplets dry out. Layers are better and a pocket with a piece of furnace filter or gauze pad are good options with patterns available online.
Want to open, stay open and keep the numbers down, WARE THE DANG MASK IN PUBLIC… not doing so just marks you as a selfish SOB /B… Don’t forget sanitation and distancing either.
I definitely think it’s all where you live. People living in states that have a lot of land have a less chance of getting it and can definitely self distance. Yes all states have big cities that have more populated areas where people work, shop etc.. are at a greater chance of getting it and possibly spreading it. We have been lucky to live in a rural area that we only had 40 cases in the county of 160,000 population “ no deaths “ .No cases in my home town population of 460. We used to go to Dallas on the weekends to shop and have dinner at least twice a month. Since this started no we do not go to Dallas or any over populated city. We try to find areas of Texas where they have very little cases and go visit , vacation , shop, eat. We definitely want some normalcy in our life’s and this is what we are choosing to do until it settles down. Yes it will pass, when ? Nobody on the face of this earth has that answer.
I personally do not know anyone that has had it. I ask a lot of people this question, and they all tell me no!
If we stay smart about how we proceed, the worst will be behind us. New York has gone from being the hardest hit state to being the quickest to reduce the spread and death rate.
Their numbers in NYC were off the charts, NOT NEW YORK STATE, due to malfeasance. When your the worst, out of all 50ty states, and your numbers begin to drop, it’s a math calculation ( i.e. percentage play), no more no less. Most of the state hadnt even a reported case until a month after NYC went verticle.
Yes, it is a virus.
No, it is not the flu.
The flu has also killed plenty in the 2019-2020 season. Current estimates indicate anywhere from 24,000 to 62,000. It’s simply underreported because of the overwhelming reporting and urgency regarding SARs Cov-2.
No, 250,000 don’t die of the flu in the U.S. every year. For years 2017-2018 CDC aggregate estimates are approaching 61,000 out of total cases of 45 million
It is likely that there will be an increase of cases this summer, but it isn’t a second wave, but rather a continuation, post-plateau, of the first wave.
All this information is easy to come by, but it does take a willingness to accept well-reasoned, informed answers and discard opinions.
We have, at our fingertips, access to all the information on the planet. It’s truly amazing if you think about it. It’s like the Library at Alexandria on steroids. Given the amount of information from credible sources that we have available to us, it’s incumbent upon us all to get the facts. Then, and only then, can we make informed decisions, apply some common sense and Occam’s Razor if necessary, and make the kinds of choices to keep ourselves, our families, and our country safe for all.
Be safe, be well. Take care of one another. We’ll see you on the road.
Thank you. And yes, this information is easy to come by and yes you do have to be willing to accept it rather than claim it’s propaganda and conspiracy. I just don’t understand that nonsense.
I assume NO means there is more to come and another spike soon. Certainly seeing that in the numbers from Riverside Cty CA and other areas that started to open up 2 weeks or ago. This is going to be a long ride. I do not foresee a near term return to some new normal. I have travel credits usable for travel before the end of 2022 and hope we will be able to use them.
Having been studied continuously for several decades, seasonal influenza is possibly the best-known virus affecting humans. The influenza virus has several different strains, and because they all mutate, each year there tend to be at least one and sometimes several slightly different viruses in circulation.
Sometimes the prevalent strain is similar to a previous strain, and some who recovered from the previous strain have partial immunity which enables their bodies to fight off the mutated virus without serious or deadly symptoms. This is what “herd immunity” is for flu. Also, each year vaccines are produced that are targeted for the upcoming flu season by sampling the virus where it has circulated throughout the Winter in the Southern hemisphere, developing and manufacturing vaccines over the Summer for the oncoming season, which begins in the Fall.
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/prevent/how-fluvaccine-made.htm
It’s through a combination of residual herd immunity and vaccination that the number of serious and deadly cases is limited. Again, the most serious result of flu is pneumonia, which becomes fatal if the patient cannot fight off the virus. For COVID-19, because it clearly infects and damages more than the lungs, the most serious result can be pneumonia, blood clots, heart failure, kidney damage, etc, any of which can lead to death or permanent disability.
Each year the CDC can only *estimate* the number of flu deaths from the number of reported cases, because the proximate cause of death from flu is pneumonia, and in many or most cases the patient is presumed to have flu without a definitive test result, because testing for flu in adults is not nearly 100% reliable.
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/symptoms/testing.htm#detect-flu
The CDC estimates for flu in particular are considered by many to overestimate the number of deaths due to faulty assumptions built into its estimate modeling, not by intent:
https://aspe.hhs.gov/cdc-%E2%80%94-influenza-deaths-request-correction-rfc
https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/comparing-covid-19-deaths-to-flu-deaths-is-like-comparing-apples-to-oranges/
Here are the CDC guidelines for reporting COVID-19 as a cause of death:
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvss/vsrg/vsrg03-508.pdf
The vast majority of scientists and clinicians agree that deaths from COVID-19 are *not* over-reported, in fact most believe the numbers are *underreported* for practical reasons, not by intent:
https://kimatv.com/news/local/coroner-explains-how-a-covid-19-death-is-determined
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2020/05/what-we-need-to-find-true-coronavirus-death-toll/
https://www.livescience.com/how-covid-19-deaths-are-counted.html
If you follow the numbers, it would be hard to conclude that we are anywhere near out of the woods at this time. Until there are the means to treat and prevent the disease, there will be a need to do whatever else we can to prevent infections – while allowing as much daily life and normal economic activity to happen. It is a very difficult balance to achieve, and nobody knows where the “sweet spot” lies.
If we were able to test universally and effectively implement contact tracing and targeted quarantines, as some countries (S. Korea, Taiwan, Singapore) have done, we would have a better targeted response that would maximize the amount of social and economic activity possible until we have effective treatments and vaccines. Besides being smaller and having fewer ports of entry to deal with, these particular countries have universal health care, respect for science, and first-hand experience with other viruses that never reached the US (SARS, in particular), which triggered their creation of infrastructure to deal with the next one, which happened to be COVID-19. In the case of Taiwan, it doesn’t hurt a bit that the vice president is himself an epidemiologist.
Without the ability to test, trace and impose targeted quarantines that some countries have (S. Korea, Taiwan, Singapore, e.g.), we have been forced to take a “one size fits all” approach, which has obvious drawbacks. The situation in the cosmopolitan, densely populated Northeast is nothing like the situation in the middle of Wyoming. On the other hand, one country (Sweden) which also lacks those test / trace / targeted-quarantine capabilities, tried a mostly voluntary approach to social distancing – and so far has paid a heavy price. to see this, go to this page:
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries
Scroll down to the table, and click on the heading “Deaths/1M pop”
There you will see the countries of the world listed by their population-adjusted death stats, starting with the worst. You can see that Sweden is currently 7th worst in the world. The best comparison for Sweden would be its closest neighbors, Denmark, Norway and Finland, all of which have about the same population densities (all else equal, contagion tends to spread equally in areas of equal density).
Death rates SO FAR (deaths per Million population):
Sweden 483
Denmark 103
Finland 59
Norway 45
Note that the results above mirror the relative extent of restrictions imposed.
Here is the USA compared with S. Korea, Taiwan, and Singapore:
USA 354
S.Korea 5
Taiwan 0.3
Singapore 4
The numbers don’t lie. Opinions should be rooted in fact. Had we as a nation acted sooner and in a more coordinated way, we could have saved a lot of lives. Going forward, until there are treatments and vaccines, the number of additional lives lost will all depend on how we govern ourselves.
Pretty good post Rich. A couple things; 35% of recorded deaths were nursing home patients. Those were the direct result of malfeasance on the part of govenors of 5 states. Yes, they are Wuhan virus related deaths, but it is highly likely that many, if not a majority, could have been prevented, had common sense prevailed, and they used existing medical facilities specifically delivered, or constructed for the outbreak.
The government acted very quickly when it was determined the virus had originated in Wuhan, China, by closing down travel from that infected location. Then subsequently most of Europe, then The United Kingdom. As many recall, that came with great criticism, resulting in push back from media and various political individuals. I only pray that those entities refrain from personal dislikes, and apply common sense, it’s a leap, but I pray.
Conclusion; there will be rules written to prevent the sick elderly from being sent into a captive (nursing home) enviroment, when it is believed an outbreak of sufficient proportion has occured. Those rules will be the proof, that they made a MISTAKE, caused so much pain and suffering to loved ones, due to their incompentency. They will never admit their error. It is like the traffic light goes up at an intersection, after a school bus full of innocent children become maimed or die in an accident.
Wow. That all deserves untangling, but I really don’t have the appetite or the strength to even begin. Many of your “facts” are someone’s fabrication, unfortunately, easily refuted if you have any real expertise or even an ear for the ring of truth.
I just took a look, and I have to agree with the gist of your comment re: ill-advised decisions to move recovering COVID-19 patients to long term care facilities:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/05/09/us/coronavirus-cases-nursing-homes-us.html
There is a *ton* of detail in this report, but I’ll take one quote to try to put it in perspective:
“While just 11 percent of the country’s cases have occurred in long-term care facilities, deaths related to Covid-19 in these facilities account for more than a third of the country’s pandemic fatalities.
A third of U.S. coronavirus deaths are linked to long-term care facilities.”
A second article affirms what you said about NY in particular, that Gov Cuomo ordered in March (following CDC guidance) that recovering patients be transferred to long-term care facilities, and that there were – understandably – objections at the time:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/24/us/nursing-homes-coronavirus.html
This article reports that on May 10 Cuomo changed the order, requiring patients to test negative for the virus before being moved to long-term care facilities:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/new-york-will-no-longer-require-nursing-homes-take-covid-n1204586
Here is another article that focuses mostly on CA:
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/04/20/832034662/discharging-covid-19-patients-to-nursing-homes-called-a-recipe-for-disaster
Here is an article that takes a broader focus:
https://www.aarp.org/caregiving/health/info-2020/coronavirus-transfers-to-nursing-homes.html
I have found less detailed reports re: MI.
It should be clear that these decisions were made in hard-hit areas, in the name of maintaining capacity at acute care hospitals, and involved the movement of “recovering” patients. They were also made following CDC guidance – but that does not exempt decision makers who as you said, failed the commons sense test. Clearly some serious mistakes were made, since even “recovering” patients could still be shedding virus. Clearly there was a rationale at the time for moving recovering patients out in NYC in particular, as the hospitals came close to overload – but allowing them to be sent to long term care facilities without housing them separately under some kind of effective quarantine arrangement, and probably without adequate staffing, PPE, or expertise was irresponsible and came with tragic consequences. It’s difficult to know in the “fog of battle”. The factual timeline of circumstances and decisions will become clear only with dispassionate examination after the crisis has subsided, and some of it may never become clear. For now at least, I don’t believe the decisions were made with full knowledge, and certainly not with the intent to cause death or disability.
Had these moves not been made, there still would have been a horrendous toll in long term care facilities, as the vast majority of facilities around the country have been hit very hard without receiving any recovering patients from hospitals.
Here is an article that I think sums up the long term care debacle – which has roots that were well established well before COVID-19 erupted:
https://www.vox.com/2020/6/3/21279431/nursing-homes-coronavirus-covid-19-deaths-cuomo-cdc
And the truth shall set you FREE! Thanks Rich. Oh, and by the way, the NY governor removed the March “order” from the NYS Dept. Of Health website in early May. Now I ask you, why do that?
BBT – As far as I can tell, that’s when he changed it to require negative test result before moving patients to LTC facilities (May 10).
Then modify the ORDER, don’t erase it, as if the historical record shouldn’t remain in the public domain. Documentation is important here, otherwise the history is lost for the public record.
BBT: Like most web pages, its intent is to provide current guidance and information, not to serve as a historical record. Imagine if all official web pages just grew, and nothing was ever removed. As a legal matter, the order is recorded officially. The much-maligned “media” have also left an indelible record, as major, reputable news media reports are archived. For instance you can call up daily editions of most major newspapers going back many decades. Informational websites are generally not where the historical record is kept in any case. In addition to the state’s own records, Cuomo’s orders during the pandemic have been recorded in *many* major publications.
Entirely disagree. To the uninformed, the ORDER to send patients who tested positive for the Wuhan virus was issued on March 25th. Unless I told you that you would not have known, thereby not affording the taxpayers of New York State the information necessary to determine the competency, or lack thereof, in forming an opinion as to who is in their best interest to run their state. Your incorrect, in that Web pages grow arguement in this instance, it was the initial order issued some 9 weeks ago. It was most likely done to cover governments tracks, where we demand transparency. Respectfully, give it a second thought. Unless this was captured on an archived site, the government should not be hiding their gross negligence in this matter, thousands were sent to their death, because of this incompetent govenor. That is a fact, and hiding the trail only makes it look worse, to the informed, sir.
BBT: As I said, the decision is archived in all the major publications and news services that covered it. Here’s a suggestion: enter “cuomo release covid nursing homes” in a search engine and see how many stories are out there. As I mentioned, major news outlets archive their published stories – and as long as they continue their past practices, the stories will still be available years from now. If you had ever done primary source research, you would realize this is the practice in the US. Here are just a few of the 10 pages worth of links from the search above:
https://nypost.com/2020/05/10/cuomo-was-wrong-to-order-nursing-homes-to-accept-coronavirus-patients/
https://www.politico.com/states/new-york/albany/story/2020/05/06/cuomo-under-fire-for-response-to-covid-19-at-nursing-homes-1282821
https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/23/politics/cuomo-new-york-nursing-homes-coronavirus-patients/index.html
https://apnews.com/5ebc0ad45b73a899efa81f098330204c
https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/cuomo-reverses-nursing-home-directive-to-take-covid-19-patients-requires-more-staff-testing/2410533/
https://www.businessinsider.com/cuomo-executive-order-4300-recovering-coronavirus-patients-ny-nursing-homes-2020-5
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/new-york-will-no-longer-require-nursing-homes-take-covid-n1204586
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/nursing-homes-deaths-coronavirus-prosecution-andrew-cuomo-new-york/
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/ap-count-4300-virus-patients-ny-nursing-homes-70825470
https://www.wsj.com/articles/new-york-sent-recovering-coronavirus-patients-to-nursing-homes-it-was-a-fatal-error-11589470773
As you can see, the mainstream media are all well represented in covering the story – so it’s not as if anyone tried to keep it a secret, if that’s what you’re suggesting. But it’s one story among an awful lot of distracting stories in a very trying time. Add to that the fact that many if not most people are overloaded with news these days, and it’s not too hard to understand how it hasn’t been shouted from every rooftop.
As I also said, in addition to being well covered by the media, decisions made by government officials are also recorded for posterity by local, state and national government archives. Here are a couple of web sites on that topic for NY state:
https://www.dos.ny.gov/coog/modelregs_photo_record_broadcast.html
https://www.rcfp.org/open-government-guide/new-york/
I think you are perseverating on one thing that is just a part of the overall picture. Yes, deaths in LTC facilities make up 35% of the total – in the US, and most of them have not received any “recovering” patients from hospitals, because they were not in danger of becoming overwhelmed by sheer numbers of patients requiring acute care in a hopital bed as was the case in NYC. You seem to believe that the number of LTC deaths would have been much lower in NY state or NYC for that matter if Cuomo hadn’t released “recovering” patients from hospitals to nursing homes to clear beds for patients needing acute care in hospitals. Yes, there is no doubt that there were people who died as a result of that practice. But I don’t believe it’s fair to assume that those deaths were a large fraction of the overall total of deaths in LTC facilities. I think the only fair ballpark estimate would be to compare the rates in LTC facilities that took in “recovering” patients vs those that did not. Until someone takes the time to trace down all specifics, that will have to suffice. Was it a bad decision? Of course. Were there alternatives available to free up acute care beds? I don’t know – do you? Is it the major story behind the large number of deaths due to COVID-19 in the US? No, it is not. In NY state? No it is not. In NYC? No, I don’t believe it is, but only some rigorous research in time will tell.
And the fact remains and I have posted this previous to BBT’s some how claim that the elderly were shipped off.
Like I said weeks ago, just where did you (BBT), think they were going to put these people?
There is no conspiracy against the elderly, there was NO ROOM in these hospitals to hold all the people. Once people were treated, they were moved to lesser intensive care rooms to make room for the more acutely sick influx of people coming in.
No different than any hospital set up. A hospital doesn’t keep you in an ICU bed every day once you are admitted until your release date.
Rich, tell that to the loved ones who’s elderly parent(s) died because of the incompentency. You think because you found it on various websites that explains the government removing it from the source of reference (NYS Dept. Of Health) website.
You, as it seems others, do not realize that government needs to be held accountable, but sadly they cant be sued into ablivion, where a private nursing maybe in this case. Your biased, which is fine, but never try and make a statement where you believe your smarter than the other guy. As an example; fact: in response to;
your ” I don’t know” well you missed it. There was the Hospital Ship Hope, parked in NY Harbor, that never saw more than 150 Wuhan virus patients, where capacity was 1,000. It was requested, and granted by the feds to use it as a Wuhan virus treatment facility. So there was a place to treat and quarantine, research that!. Enough with not applying Ocums Razor. People who were innocent, and had a reasonable expectation of safty, were sentenced to death by an incompetent govenor.
I hoped you learned something from this, as I learned something from your excellent internet skills. I’ll say a prayer for the dead, may their souls rest in Pease, and may future govenors put policies in place so thks travesty never happens again.
This could go on forever – but in case you’re interested in learning the truth instead of promoting your prejudice, here’s what you’re missing:
First of all, the ship that was deployed to NYC was the COMFORT, not the HOPE. When it arrived, the Navy announced that the ship would NOT be taking on board *any* COVID-19 patients, for multiple reasons which you can read in the article below, including that the ship was not designed for patient isolation, and the risk of spread was too great in such confined quarters, among several other important reasons (much the same reasons that prompted the carrier Theodore Roosevelt to return to port with the COVID-19 outbreak – you it’s very difficult to control the spread of a virus below decks on a military ship). Instead, their mission would be to take on non-COVID patients from NYC hospitals to clear beds in those acute care facilities. At the time, NYC hospitals put all non-critical medical procedures on hold, and it’s clear now that in addition, many patients who would normally have gone to the hospital decided not to go to the hospital for fear of contracting COVID-19. As a result the non-COVID patient population was much lower than it would normally be and much lower than anyone anticipated, and there was much less need for non-COVID acute care capacity. Here is a report from that time:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/02/nyregion/ny-coronavirus-usns-comfort.html
Subesequently the Hope relented and allowed COVID-19 patients – despite the fact that it was not designed to support a contagion:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/08/magazine/hospital-ship-comfort-new-york-coronavirus.html
Ultimately the Comfort departed NYC, having treated fewer than 200 patients (the ship has 1,000 hospital beds).
https://abcnews.go.com/US/covid-19-patient-leaves-usns-comfort/story?id=70353087
https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2020/04/30/hospital-ship-comfort-departs-nyc-having-treated-fewer-than-200-patients/
The Comfort was not by any means the panacea you seem to think it was.
This is it for me – I am leaving the thread. Say what you will, but you may want to read just a little first.
BBT: You are calling bias but you have never posted once about the incompetence at the federal level. You clearly have a problem with Gov Cuomo since you keep harping on the mistakes he made. You want to hold him accountable and that is fine but this is not the forum to do that.
Thanks RICH for putting out this great info that BBT has summarily ignored to continue to push his conspiracy theory that there is some sort of cover up going on.
Good Editorial…Kudos for the added links to back up your basis. Those that think this is over will soon find out differently. Herd immunity takes years.
Although I am not afraid, I still wear a mask in crowded indoor spaces, like grocery stores and similar retail operations. I also know the Hong Kong flu pandemic of 1968-69 had its ups and downs. Woodstock was held during that pandemic and there was apparently no spike in cases as a result of 300,000 young people mucking around in the rain and mud. There was an uptick in the fall and winter. I was in junior high back then and was only vaguely aware of it. I know COVID19 is a new virus and scientists are still learning about its infection rates and how it hits some people harder than others. COVID19 could have a second wave and upticks in infection before it fades away like the Hong Kong flu did.
COVID19 is neither a hoax or the monster plague as hyped by the media. It is something we must be aware of and take simple precautions like regular hand washing and wearing masks in enclosed spaces. We’ll ride this out, hit a few bumps in the road, but we’ll make it.
Well said.
The only question is “how long?”
Even if a vaccine becomes available, how many are going to actually take it?
Good point. Maybe the government should force them, huh. Let’s see how that plays out. I have a better scenario, wait till some crack pot says the vaccine will hurt you worse than the d esease, and then the MSM prints that for dissemination. Oh that’s coming, you can count on it.
Lydia, back in 1968~1969, people did NOT travel to the extent that they do now. I expect that said lack of travel had a lot to do with the Woodstock attendees NOT being ravaged by said pandemic. I was a teenager back then. I have NO memory of that pandemic (but CLEARLY remember other significant events such as the moon landing, Vietnam and assassination of JFK).
Unfortunately even a simple question like this can’t be answered without it becoming political. One responder here was especially antagonistic and tried to morph the discussion in to Trump, police and race bashing. Lighten up folks … nobody will change anyone’s mind on politics here.
I see the same people in here doing that all the time. They know everything and if you believe the news and science you’re a sucker.
Just for the record, news and science are mutually exclusive. News, is whatever that agency decides to print, post on their respective site. Accuracy is subjective, and is driven by the number of viewers subscribers, etc. The editor, and or owners of the “news” entity, get to disseminate whatever they think, because they own it
Science is the study of a particular subject. Reporting the outcome of the “science, scientific study, etc”. Is subject to analysis of it a perfect world by peer review. It is not exact, but it should follow scientific methods in arriving at a determination for dissemination to the respondent(s). Those would be the public, the specific owners of the lab, as in the case of drug development, etc. We now live longer, healthier, etc. Because of the development of science, and the specific methods.
I answer “yes” because we know how to move forward with good practices. Doesn’t mean it’s gone but if we all try , we can keep it slowed until treatment and effective vaccine are on board.
I think the COVID-19 virus is as likely as not to follow the recurring pattern of past epidemics and pandemics such as the 1918 Spanish flu, historic plagues, smallpox, cholera, polio, typhoid fever, ebola, SARS, swine flu, etc., etc., etc. People tend to believe that because something like a pandemic hasn’t occurred in their personal experience that they are just distant history rarities rather than constantly evolving around us.
Every pandemic is different and you can’t use models from 1918 to fit COVID with accuracy. Of the things you mention the virus based flu (SARS, Swine, etc. ) followed different patterns and died out pretty quickly here. You can’t compare this virus with some of those other things that are bacterial. And you have to realize that at some point nearly everyone will get it. You can’t eliminate it. Community spread is everywhere. But as it weakens and more people get it it will not be as virile as it was in the beginning. Most viruses weaken with time, the exception being the Spanish flu, which pretty much died out quickly after the second wave. But again, every pandemic is different and I don’t think we can assume that COVID will act like that.
Quarantining came from ancient plagues. Even back then certain countries/cities knew to keep people out to prevent spread.
I may have submitted this on unrelated post. Sorry.
The Pandemic will be with all of us for a while. Look what New Zealand did. We must follow their lead. If we don’t we will be doomed until a vaccine is available.
Be kind, wash your hands, be careful, be safe, wear a mask keep, your distance and stay in your bubble.
https://calgary.ctvnews.ca/the-canada-u-s-border-is-closed-but-americans-are-still-coming-through-here-s-how-1.4980589
See above
Americans traveling to Alaska through Canada are not obeying Canadian law and are putting others at risk in contacting COVID-19 and increasing the spread of the Pandemic.
They are not social distancing, self isolating for 14 days, and not wearing a mask.
Please don’t take advantage of the relaxation of essential travel to Canada for USA citizens wanting to get home to Alaska through your northern neighbours yard.
For those traveling to Alaska through Canada, please follow the instruction from the Canadian Border officers so we can all get through this pandemic together.
Cooper
What did New Zealand do?
New Zealand appears to have completely eradicated the coronavirus — at least for now — after health officials said Monday the last known infected person had recovered.
The announcement was greeted with joy around the country and means the nation of 5 million people will be among the first to welcome throngs of fans back into sports stadiums, embrace crowded concerts and remove seating restrictions from flights.
Be kind…
Heeeaarrs Johnny!!
Be careful of the media hype. More cases sometimes means more testing is being done. It’s Hospitalizations that give a more accurate story. And as this doctor points out, many of those hospitalizations are for things that were not done (e.g. surgery) during the lock downs. This gives a more balanced view. https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/coronavirus/fears-mount-over-covid-spikes-data-continue-show-positive-downward?utm_source=daily-newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletter
Cindy, when fear reins, common sense escapes the masses. I’m afraid the later has taken hold. Sure we all should practice safe hygiene, no different than not visiting gramma with a cold. But, we have much bigger issues now. So, the amount of reporting on the Desease has precipitously declined, now it’s switched to what a bad country and people we all are. NOT.
Be careful of media slant.
When you’re sick you get a test. So, more people are sick, so more people are getting tested. More people getting sick, means the virus is still out there and increasing in more areas.
I am white and I have worked with many people of different races. What happened in Mpls is a total disgrace by the cop kneeling on a person’s neck for 9 minutes. Read and educate yourself on the treatment of Indians and Blacks for the past 400 years. Many people are fed up with your racist attitudes that keep others in the lowest crappy jobs, housing, health care, financially, to name a few. They are not going to put up with this any longer, and I don’t blame them.
Go ahead and believe all the propaganda that we don’t have to pay attention to the virus. 107,000 people will disagree with you. If you don’t like wearing a mask, you will like being on a vent even less. With some luck, those with such an attitude will be part of the “thinning of the herd”.
Kinda harsh, don’t ya think. Everyone should just hug each other for a moment. Ah, I feel better now suggesting that. Have a nice day 🙂
One thing being overlooked in the answers is the location of the person answering, There are parts of the country that have experienced very little contact, where others live in “hotbeds” of the virus. That could very well sway their opinion.
Good point, Gordy. Or if they know someone who has/had the virus or, sadly, died from it. —Diane at RVtravel.com
Bingo. New York City is a PERFECT example.
Don’t let that lull you into a false sense of security. Those areas are showing they are now catching up when you compare the number of cases to the state’s population.
Yeah, Wyoming may not have many cases, now. But outsiders, RVers for example, are carrying it in.
If we don’t deal with Covid 19 now we will have a bigger monster later.
Watching the numbers climb daily as more and more areas open up and people disregard the need to social distance … if people do not self distance, do not adhere to safety protocols, it will never get any better.
Rules are much stricter in Canada than in USA … fines are in place … social distancing is enforced … can only have gatherings of up to 10 people (that just increased as of yesterday) … no close contact … no visiting in each others homes, RVs, campers etc … family or friends …
It was interesting that ALL Canadians were ordered back to their country, which effected those wintering in the lower 48 and elsewhere. If they didn’t comply, they would be stripped of the government provided health insurance. Punish your citizens and they will comply. Interesting approach Oh Canada.
I lost my wife of 53 years to the virus. Go ahead and be stupid. Please stay home
We are so very sorry for your loss, Pat. Our condolences to you and your family. 🙁 —Diane at RVtravel.com
As a retired health care professional, I’ve seen contagious illness come and go over the seasons. Covid-19 is the second scariest I’ve ever seen, behind SARS. Fortunately, SARS wasn’t as contagious and killed too many of it’s hosts.
This is very contagious, we have no vaccine, no natural immunity to it, and no effective way to treat it. It is a multi faceted bug that hits the lining of the blood vessels as well as the lungs. The mortality rate for us retired folks is too high. Patients who have been seriously ill with this may suffer long-term consequences, even disability. New York was able to turn the curve down with drastic measure, but we see how quickly new hospitalizations are climbing in areas where restrictions are looser.
Unfortunately, we have a long way to go before we can get back to being social again.
New York State locked down most of the rural part because of the City. The governor did not apply common sense. I see that they just drastically lowered the death by CORONA virus count, but no mention at the NYS Dept. Of Health website why?
It is a racist term that some keep using. Report the comment as such so that it can be removed. I have family member that have been mistreated due to their ethnicity because of the use of this term.
You ask a question that no one can answer. Of course we all have “opinions” as to whether the worse of the pandemic is over. There are news reports that in some states that have re-opened, new covid-19 cases are up as much as 70% when compared to the previous weeks before the reopening. We will all just have to wait and see what happens…
Joe, hostile crowd huh. I see you mentioned fact, yet you have negative votes for saying so. We live in troubled times my friend. I commend you for stating fact. But fear in the hearts of many, clouds judgement IMHO.
I am an admitted news junkie. Every night I watch the CBS, NBC, ABC, CNN, and MSNBC news. And when I get it, I also watch the BBC and other international news. What I see is that they all report the same basic facts and statistics. If you believe in “fake news” then you must also believe that every night, the executives from these competing news organizations get together and decide what “fake news” they are going to air the next day. There has been instances where one organization may have report something incorrectly, but they always correct their mistake in subsequent news and apologize for their mistake. For those that believe in “fake news’, please provide me with a specific example where one of these news organization deliberately air fake news. Explain why you think this was fake and list your source of the ‘real news’. All I hear is “fake news” but I never see anyone providing examples or stating why the news is fake.
It’s called ” talking points” and sadly yes, those organizations all pile on. Search montage on youtube, it might just enlighten you as to how non independent they really are. Sad, but true.
As an example, it was reported by all of those news organizations for THREE YEARS that the current administration was in bed with the Russians. Truth is that the US Attorney is looking into what really happened. Indictments should be forthcoming. When that happens (still under investigation), then your either going to see them admit they were wrong, and just jumped on the band wagon, but I suspect, they will not be upstanding. I mean what’s in it for their audience, right?
I guess you have not read the Mueller report. Here is a link to the key findings:
https://www.acslaw.org/projects/the-presidential-investigation-education-project/other-resources/key-findings-of-the-mueller-report/
The current investigation by the US Attorney is to punish those that provided evidence of the Russian interference.
The whole fake news thing is just a projection by the very people that are actually using propaganda to further their causes.
Does the media in general make mistakes? Yes.
Do they sensationalize for ratings? of course.
why was my comment pulled ? the truth. that fear will be the end of this country. Look what is going on in the USA. It is wrong to let this government tell us what to do we are free people. Just delete this because we don’t want to here the truth.
Gary, can’t say I remember your original comment. But, if it was civil, fact based, then those on the staff shouldn’t be pulling it. That’s just not right. Did you?
Wasn’t me. I’ve removed it from the Trash twice now and will probably get in trouble for it. I don’t agree with Gary’s message, but I don’t agree with disallowing it, either. It’s back (for the time being). Other moderators are much stricter than I am. —Diane at RVtravel.com
Sorry, Gary. Other moderators are much more strict than I am. I’ve removed it from the Trash twice now — and will probably get in trouble for it. But I agree that you have a right to say what you want, even though others don’t agree with it. —Diane at RVtravel.com
My DW and I still wear a mask, although many people in our small town do not. It makes me nervous considering our age group.
Ted, your a wise man. But clarify, say NYC and the surrounding metro area.
I think the pandemic for the most part is over….if the politician’s allow it to be behind us. We recently stayed in a RV park for 45 nights starting mid-April thru the end of May without any incidents. You could count the number of hospitalizations in this county on one hand. But the last 2 weeks were marred by the county who came out with severe restrictions on the use of RV parks. Overnight they decided that everyone was at a heightened risk so a few were asked to leave the park even though they had been there for some time. Only full timers were to be allowed to stay. Strange in that the hotels were allowed to be open while they mandated that RV parks not be open to the public. A couple of days following this tightening down the same county allowed some restaurants to open in a small way if they met certain strict conditions. A week after this restaurants were being allowed to have dine in patrons. The point of my post is that local governments seem to be moving in opposite directions at the same time so I’ll repeat what I said up front……”if the politician’s allow it to be behind us” the pandemic, which I feel strongly was politically motivated from day one, will be behind us & we will again be free to travel again. RV parks are probably the safest environment to live in as we are already spaced apart much more so than other types of lodging.
June 12th, the CDC announced that they expect a surge of Covid19 deaths by July 4th. As of June 12th, the U.S. had passed the mark of 100,000 dead and, predict up to an ADDITIONAL 40,000 Covid19 deaths by July 4th!
I’ve been “socially isolating” and “sheltering in place” in TN for THREE MONTHS now. Every 7 ~ 10 days, I drive ~ 20 miles to resupply. I am continually amazed at how many people do NOT follow SIMPLE safety practices such as wearing a face mask, maintaining a six foot separation and following “traffic flow” signage many stores have posted (to keep people from face to face encounters). As bad as the “hit” the economy has taken is, mass numbers of DEAD PEOPLE are even worse. I’m fortunate that I can continue to “isolate in place” where I am as long as I need to. I’m a Full Time RVer and, as much as I would really love to get back on the road, I am not DYING to do so.
This isn’t a “second wave”, it is just the rest of the country catching up with the first wave.
A “second wave” won’t take place until early this fall and through the winter.
Stay tuned.
You mean if you live in NY.
The cases are climbing in all the other states now except NY, NJ.
It was only a matter of time before the rest of the country started to catch up.
Here in Oregon, as the more restrictive measures were recently lifted, there’s already been an uptick in new covid cases. And, no, it isn’t because more testing is being done. It’s because of the folks who continue to live their lives as they did in The Before Times. To those who think the virus is fake news, explain that to my dear friend who just passed away due to covid. It’s real, folks, and if we’re not vigilant, this thing will never go away. To her credit, our governor immediately put the tougher restrictions back in place. I am very grateful that she is being a responsible public servant. Thank you, Governor Kate Brown!
It has become so hard for me to pay attention to the news lately. Responsible journalism, printed or broadcast, has become history. Reporting has been replaced by opinions and and editorials, and, worst of all, sensationalizing and exploiting. I am nearly convinced that “reporters” are pandering to the advertisers for those $$$$, It doesn’t seem to matter if it is local, world wide , or anything in between. It also doesn’t matter who is doing the so-called reporting, whether it is ABC, CBS, NBC, or any of the other smaller networks. The stories are all the same as though one person is writing all of it. Then, we have the experts who are trying to appear to address issues, but really just showboating because someone put a microphone in their face. Just more opinions from either elected or appointed politicians who became experts overnight because, well, they got elected or appointed. Case in point. I needed to get a haircut when the Covid pandemic began, but our governor closed all the barbershops, salons, etc. OK. I can wait. But when I see her and her entourage on TV, they all looked quite well groomed. Same for our local leaders, who also, I guess, remove their protective masks for the camera. I find it hard to give credibility to any reporting anymore.
THIS topic sure generated responses…..
Those accusing those that wear masks and social distancing of living in fear remind me of this old joke.
A cop stopped an old lady for a traffic violation. She informed him that she had a concealed carry permit. He asked if she had any weapons in the car.
“I have a 38 in my purse, a 45 in the glove compartment, a 9mm in the console and a shotgun in the trunk.” The cop asked what she was afraid of.
Not a “blanking” thing sonny, not a “blanking” thing.