By Scott Linden
Hey, RVer – In some people’s eyes, you’re a bum, a trespasser, arsonist or worse. Stick with me a minute and I’ll bet you agree … sort of.
The number of “houseless” Americans has ballooned. We know that, they know that, bureaucrats who work for us know that, and so does law enforcement. Here’s the rub: A significant number of those folks are living in RVs … and news media often don’t differentiate between your shiny lifestyle-oriented rig poised in the driveway for the next adventure, and the eyesore of a blue-tarp-clad wreck broken down on a city street in a puddle of motor oil. Yep, you are them, and vice-versa.
What’s also swelled is the number of crimes committed in, on, around, to, or by those “RVers.” Maybe you’ve lost a valuable keepsake to burglary or been threatened, saw something go up in flames or heard a horror story. To many, “RV” and “homeless” are associated inadvertently or purposely by news media, government agencies and regulators, police and, thus, the public. Read your own newspaper or watch your TV news. We are tarred with the same brush as that subset of RV dwellers who have nowhere else to go, who choose to break the law.
From littering to drive-by shootings, public urination to drug abuse, trespassing to murder, all “RVers” are thrown under the bus for the acts of a few desperate (and some genuinely evil) individuals who perpetrate those offenses from their RV.
It’s a fact that many of our former allies – Walmart, Cabela’s, local park districts, are changing their tune, citing as their reason bad actors who trashed their parking lots and scared off legitimate customers. Hostility to anyone is hostility to everyone who loves the RV lifestyle. As a mayor of Las Vegas said decades ago, “The reputation of our community depends on you, me, and us.”
Yep, sometimes one bad apple does spoil the whole basketful.
Who cares? You do. Got a notice from the city prohibiting parking your rig on the street? Does a subconscious fear of RVers fuel opposition to more legitimate RV parks being built? In my own town, a semi-sensible solution – creating a safe parking place for houseless RV users – is under attack due to well-founded fear. Nearby residents believe some of those “RVers” will be burglarizing their homes and threatening their children as they walk to school.
Vigilante time? Probably not. But we can grab our verbal pitchforks and torches. We can demand that local officials enforce existing laws, think creatively, oppose unwise “solutions” devised without public input, make taxpayers’ needs a priority over transients, and expect our elected officials to create realistic, cost-effective, permanent solutions to the homeless (RV) situation.
At other times we might stow those metaphorical pitchforks and torches and pick up shovels and rakes. Pitch in, do something constructive, find compassion, write letters to the editor, mobilize on social media … be part of the solution, whether it’s sitting on a committee, testifying at a city council meeting, or volunteering.
Because, ultimately, the problem is yours, theirs, and ours.
If you choose to comment, be kind. Nasty comments will be deleted and readers who made them banned from commenting again.
TRIVIA: In a recent survey, what percent of RVtravel.com readers reported they had been locked out of their RVs once or more? About 15 percent, 34 percent or 52 percent. The answer is here.
##RVT1030b
Unfortunately, this is right on the mark! I have no idea what the solution(s) are, or even if there are any. But Scott has hit the nail on the head here. We are all being tarred with the same sticky brush, and we all are going to have to help solve the problem…
Well I’ll have to disagree on most of this. While I’m sure there are areas in certain places where there are what I’ll call “the homeless RV’er” it’s not the norm. If a man wearing hunting gear commits a criminal act it doesn’t make the rest of the hunting community criminals or even appear to be criminals by the majority of people, same holds true for the RV community. If & when I see an older run down RV in the Walmart parking lot I don’t think “here’s someone that’s about to rob me”, my mind just doesn’t work that way & I believe that’s true for the majority of people. And yes “how about those Walmarts and truck stops with their slides & awnings open!” I occasionally stay at Walmarts, truck stops, etc, & have never seen anyone with their awnings out. If I do stay I find a spot out of the way along a curb or up against a parking lot “island” so I can extend the two slides on the one side to allow me to access my stove, fridge & bed. I’m out of the way and gone early in the AM.
You have seen someone with their slide out. It was you. Just because you need it out and mitigated it somewhat by parking by an island, it doesn’t mean it’s okay. Sorry.
We have stayed at well over 100 Walmarts over our 13 years of fulltime travel, always with permission & only for 1 night. I’ve asked at many of them, if it’s ok to put slides out, & the answer is always yes. You cannot navigate or sleep inside most rvs without extending the slides. This mistaken notion that it is improper or poor etiquette to open slides in a Walmart parking lot is rubbish. Walmart has no problem with open slides, as long as you are not blocking traffic or taking up the prime spaces that shoppers use near the entrance. Many Walmarts have different colored parking stripes farthest away from the entrance, just for truckers & rvers, & they will mention to park in the yellow marked spots. Others will tell you to park around the perimeter or in a far corner.
Agreed
Our experience is same. Slide outs on one side ok.
Hi Fred, I agree with your comment about slide outs. I have done the same as you, asked permission to park and if it was okay to extend the slide outs. To both questions the response was yes, it is okay. And I have always made sure to park out of the way, off to the outer areas of the lot, to allow plenty of room for their customers. If it would ever be an issue, I would immediately retract them. As you clearly stated, it’s almost impossible to navigate in a trailer with slide outs when they are retracted.
Not sure who started the false truth that if you extend your slide out(s), you must be a rude, law breaking person. Whoever, it was, you are wrong. It all depends on the situation.
I believe William said he hasn’t seen anyone with their awnings out. He didn’t state that about slides.
I have seen awnings out, camp chairs out, even a grill once…a setup just like one would see in a campground but taking up numerous parking spaces in a lot.
In my view that’s far different than going in the store and asking permission to park overnight and then following parking instructions which may put your rig along the edge of the lot or an island where one can open a slide without interfering with neighboring space.
If I have to have a slide out to physically use the bed, I make sure its in an area that will not be an obstruction in a Wal-Mart or a cracker barrel. So, not all of us have big diesel pushers. If you are saying I cannot, what solution are you offering? If you don’t offer an alternative, all you are doing is making the problem worse. Thank you for your “opinion”, but I will continue to do what’s right.
In some ways, yes, you are right that if an RV is involved in a crime, it becomes the RV community at large that’s suddenly in the spotlight.
However, there is more to it. It’s media driven for the main perception. The news is quick to highlight the unusual aspects of any crime and when it involves an RV, in any form or way, it just adds to the story.
Saying that RVers who travel full or part-time in their RV are automatically lumped in with homeless camps is a bit of an assumption.
RV travelers have to be aware of laws wherever they go. Just like anyone else. The new breed of RV owner is very unaware – no campground etiquette, driving over practical/safe speeds, thinking they can park anywhere and “camp” (how about those Walmarts and truck stops with their slides and awnings open!?).
The question is, WHO is the educator here? Is it YouTubers who lead these newbies down the path? Is it RV dealers? Is it city leaders who have the ultimate responsibility? It’s all the above.
We are seeing this play out first hand. In January we will head to our wintering location, east of Phoenix, for the 5th year. This park has always offered reasonable annual rates, but not too many people want to stay in Phoenix year-round. We stopped in a few weeks ago as we were ending our summer trip and found out that our reservation for our favorite site had been changed because an annual client wanted it. The manager explained that the corporation made a decision to convert the entire park to annual only clients. There have always been a few houseless folks living there, and we are friends with some of them, living in older but respectable looking RVs. But now as we walked around the park we are seeing RVs that look a bit too much like the RVs pictured above.
As they say, all good things must come to an end. So, this winter we will spend part of our time looking for a new winter 2023 RV park. We have never boondocked, but we plan to go see some of the LTVAs in Arizona.
Talking with more experienced Airstream Owners, they have learned why many campgrounds turn away older, RV’s in rough shape. Often they are abandoned in the campsite when they do not operate anymore.The campground owners have to jump through burning hoops to get rid of them as no one wants these rotten RV’s. How much does it cost to tow a DOA motorhome out of the park? If I was a campground owner, I would want to see insurance and registration paperwork when checking in.
We usually don’t stay at Walmart, etc. however if we occasionally did, we checked in with the manager. Would it be possible if Walmart and others issued a permit for limited overnight stays there would be a contact for followup if the violators left the lot trashed when they left. Most likely another burden on the store staff, but after one violation, the violator would be banned from future stays. Additionally, when we did stay as others, we always went in the store and made purchases.
Marty, each time we have stayed at a Walmart parking lot, we also went in the store to pick up a few things we had forgotten, or some additional food items. Glad to see someone else had appreciation for the free parking Walmart offers. Hopefully it will continue.
Same! Just some common courtesy goes a long way to ensuring convenience and safety for those to follow.
I almost think Walmart should make you make a purchase and then place the receipt in the window of your vehicle.
While I know where the author of this article is coming from, I simply do not agree with the assessment that we are all lumped in with the homeless, trashy, RV’s. In the first place, you will never see anyone on this site, for instance, parked on a side street in a homeless neighborhood. Next, I have seen many News reports pertaining to the homeless and I have never heard any of the Reporters call all RV’ers trash. Yes, they do show some RV’s on their reports but that is factual. They are covering a story and that is part of it. Prior to reading this article, I never, for a moment contemplated that we were viewed out of the same lens as the homeless are.
Ed, i agree I never thought about it either. I think the point is that those who are not like you and me and don’t understand true RV lifestyle are making those unfortunate connections. I go in the woods with a jeep and that lifestyle is also under attack because a few bad apples destroyed places they weren’t supposed to go. Sad for us the people who don’t know us are allowed to make laws that affect us like parking.
I totally agree!
Just like bricks & mortar, well looked after classic-vintage-old RVs should be welcome as tangible evidence of good stewardship… biased fear not 🙂
Scott, you make some great points. I have seen how people who know nothing about something, like RV lifestyle can be a real problem to all legitimate RVers. We had sensitivity training in the field at a construction site because a female inspector was offended by an image two workers were sharing. She looked over their shoulder! she was snooping but they got in trouble. Our world is changing for the worse and the media propaganda machine seems to like to demonize RVs. We have to be cognizant of things that were never a thought a few years ago as there are more and more alternative home arrangements every day.
I’m kinda wondering on what planet this article is written? Yes, I’ve seen news stories about houseless people parking junkyard RV’s wherever they quit rolling, but I’ve never experienced any discrimination about our 16 year old RV. I guess our homeless/houseless here in the midwest can only afford blue tarps and maybe an orange hiker’s tent. In other words, I agree it is a problem, but not the catastrophe cited in the article. The west coast perhaps, but not the midwest.
Agreed. My first thought was there are full-timers and people who live in their RV. The full timers choose to do so — they have the option of a living/traveling in a well-maintained RV or residing in a traditional home. The homeless who live in RVs are just that – homeless who happened upon an RV which is better than a tent or a homeless shelter.
👍
Big and obvious differences between hugely expensive DP’s and an RV on it’s last legs serving as a last resort residence for someone less fortunate. Over half of all personal bankruptcies are caused by medical bills, get sick and you may end up homeless or under a blue tarp.
John that is too simplistic. Yep, our medical system could use some improvement, well, maybe a lot. BUT they fixed the “mental illness” problem and look at the mess we are in.
Could you clarify what you mean by “fixed the mental illness problem”? That’s a pretty broad yet definitive statement to make, seeing as mental illness is a pretty complex issue, and, while it has contributed to people becoming homeless, isn’t exactly confined to unhoused people. And John’s statement is in fact accurate (https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/medical-bankruptcy-is-killing-the-american-middle-class-2019-02-14). Would love to hear of any ideas you have for easing the housing crunch for those who can’t afford it.
Yes, Reagan “fixed” the mental illness issue by closing down all the mental hospitals and releasing the people. Now they are on the streets.
Vigilante time? Probably not. But we can grab our verbal pitchforks and torches. We can demand that local officials enforce existing laws, think creatively, oppose unwise “solutions” devised without public input, make taxpayers’ needs a priority over transients, and expect our elected officials to create realistic, cost-effective, permanent solutions to the homeless (RV) situation…
4th sentence says it all and this applies to every idiotic new law these feel good politicians and the people who vote for them continue to repeat. Welcome to the world of our constitutional infringements especially the 2A, the one that specifically says shall not be infringed. Yet over 20000 illegal laws on the books curtailing OUR, yours and mine, rights whether you use it or not.
The justice system is broken, hold our politicians and judges accountable.
By the way, the lousy big city mayors are buying RVs now for the homeless. I think this will add to the problem not help but hey, I did something
Yep, what you said! Vote them out.
We started F/T 2 yrs ago.
We have a 39 ft 2001 Bounder DP and have never been turned down and we normally stay in KOA’s as per our choice.
We sometimes hit the Pilot to spend the night in mid-travels and have never stayed in a Walmart parking lot.
We have stayed in a park or 2 that were full of mobil homes ( some nice and some not), have seen a few that dont have running water in them Yuk!
Traveled up and down the W coast twice.
We also use a mail service, not cheap, but when the wife turned 62 and filed for her SS they categorize us as homeless, lol.
Get a load of that BS!
Having a Great time and loving the lifestyle and meeting a lot of wonderful people.
So categorized as homeless is actually quite funny.
Reminds a person of Westerns when pioneers were traveling and the land barons tried to run them off lol.
Having a 40’ MH pulling a toad aint cheap to say the least as most of you know.
Our home is on wheels and we love it.
The USA is a Great country!
Good for you. Have fun and stay safe.
I’m all for it.
Accidentally posted on wrong article.
Amen… It would be great if more cities would/could do that.
I live near Eugene, Oregon where the city of Eugene has created a homeless RV area and other areas for homeless that live in tents. It isn’t the best solution but it is a start to help the homeless get off the streets and have basic services provided to them by the city like porta potties and clean water and food. I’m all for having safe areas for those that are homeless to stay in as it gets them off the doorways of stores and out of the city parks, etc. It isn’t the best solution to homelessness but it is a start.
Unfortunately Teresa I do not agree, although I would like to. All it does is hide the problem and those homeless areas become dangerous, why? Because many of the homeless are dangerous. Yes, Teresa, sometimes life stinks we just have to do a better job in managing it and sometimes the answer demands we be tough. Many people can’t do tough.
Housing First program in Finland has worked and is being adopted by several countries.
Looks like it’s time for RV Travel to publish articles featuring RVers who have loaned out their RV to accommodate healthcare workers, or rescue personnel; who have used their RVs to transport rescued animals to new, forever homes, etc. Accentuate the positive.
There are many GOOD people out there, the issue is the BAD are always louder than the good. Lawlessness the the “watch’ word right now. So the break down of our society means YOU need to understand who and what you support. Yes there are good people, you mentioned many and I am one of them. I try constantly to help out when I can. People would be surprised to find out I am not liberal but there you go.
And, loaned to families who lost their homes due to horrific forest fires.
RVers: Who are we? How are we perceived? Good, bad, unfortunate? A box full of “crappy pet owner” undisciplined barking dogs ready to dump and piss on the lawn at every stop: is what I hear from most people’s complaints about RV-ers.
Yep
It’s pretty clear that empathy is dead.
I’m so glad you wrote this article. I have seen the perception of the RV community decline over the last 3.5 years since I first started RV’ing (full time). This also applies to the recreational camping community, where a lot of new/bad weekend tent campers displayed similar horrible behavior. Out in the desert BLM lands, RVers are intimidating or fighting each other over informal campsites, crowding each other, attacking pets, fighting over generator use, etc. The forums and Facebook groups have these bad stories every day, and some folks are loudly encouraging the bad behavior. The glamorization of RV’ing and publicizing of previously-hidden campsites has attracted new or bad campers to places that had never seen bad behavior or litter before. As a campground manager in the forest, I agree most campers/RVers are good, but I never get to see them because the few bad ones demand all our attention.
Forest and BLM personnel are overwhelmed with calls to address crime or issues. Once the decision makers start reviewing too many crime reports, or once they have to discuss paying overtime or adding staff they can’t afford, closing these lands down to the public is going to rise to the surface as an attractive option.
We can’t solve the problem of the crazies and criminals, but we can start working on the new RVers and other sane actors’ behavior. Let’s talk to each other individually when we see bad behavior. Let’s also be open and respectful when a fellow RVer voices a concern to us. Let’s lead by example. Let’s be seen cleaning up our campsites (and around our Walmart spots) and public lands. Let’s get along with each other without fighting.
We live in San Francisco, the home of the most leftist Democratic government in the country. There are currently over 800 non-moving RV’s being used as housing, many accompanied by growing piles of trash around them. Our city leaders JUST approved a parking lot for about 60 Rv’s, a drop in the proverbial ocean, but that’s all. Police won’t even ticket them, much less tow them. It’s all about being “compassionate to our most vulnerable”. Sometimes signs go up saying, “No overnight parking”, a waste of sheet metal and paint. IF laws were enforced, the situation wouldn’t be as bad as it is. Allow it, and they will come—-and stay.
This appears to be a California or west coast problem where rights come with no responsibilities. Comparing those people to RVers is like saying Nomadland was a movie about RVing. The growth in homelessness reflects the failures of parenting and education in preparing children for the challenges presented by life. Self esteem, self respect and honoring your family name has been replaced by selfishness.
It’s a problem here in Florida. And Texas. And New Mexico. And Virginia. And West Virginia. And Georgia. And other places we’ve been. It’s a big, sprawling, messy nationwide problem that simply can’t be reduced to a few causes. It’s going to take many different approaches to find solutions, and and a lot of effort and cooperation between government at every level (municipal, county, state) and the people living anywhere there are unhoused people.
Reply to Jus
The News Media mainly reports the worst part of the story, it seldom tells the whole story. Goods News does sell newspapers
Jus
doesn’t sell newspapers
My thought on the homeless RV issue is to take a page out of history and recreate the CCC. I have talked with folks that had experience with it back in the depression days. Was it a perfect solution? No. It had it’s issues but it did lift folks up and out of their desperate situations. It did strengthen families, offer educational and job training opportunities, give folks hope through basic life skills training, rehab those that were addicted to substance abuse, strengthen self worth, provide housing food and clothes, and at the same time helped cleanup our communities and grow and strengthen our national resources through good old fashioned hard work. The cost to the nation to execute the program was minor in comparison to what it did for our citizens and infrastructure. Read about it and let government know that you support such a solution.
Wow! many posters have taken a pretty defensive position (it’s not me…). Some are bashing local policies that are dealing with the houseless issue. So what is the solution? (Or some of the solutions?) Do we criminalize the behavior? “Enforce the laws” Do we tow away the vehicles? Do we run them out of town? That just moves them to be someone else’s problem and solves nothing. Are there humane and compassionate solutions? How can (or will) we help provide positive outcomes? Let’s see the collective mind of the readers provide some solutions.
Spoken like a deep blue, dyed in the wool. Democrat. Yes, for goodness sake enforce the laws. Humane, compassionate treatment hasn’t worked, or have you checked the crime stats in your area lately. No, i don’t know where you live, doesn’t matter, crime is up everywhere mostly due to relaxed bail, diminished police enforcement. and a failure of the justice system where dangerous criminals are released in droves. We’ve had 50 years of “humane” strategies and it hasn’t worked, no matter how much money you throw at the less fortunate. Here’s a solution; enforce the laws, jail the offenders and increase, not decease policing. There are plenty of options available to the needy. Many of these people making our lives more dangerous, don’t want the help. Look it up, it may surprise you and your delicate sensibilities.
Now there’s a solution. Put the scofflaws in jail. That’ll work in the short term, but what then? There’re going to be released from jail at some point. Not much compassion but a legitimate response. And it’s not about my “delicate sensibilities” (don’t need to insult anyone). Just looking to see if others have ideas for solutions. Thanks for your input.
If the money that would go into incarcerating the homeless went into building affordable housing for them they wouldn’t have to live in junk RVs on city streets.
So your reply politicizes and vilifies someone who is espousing a humanitarian point of view and asking for creative solutions. As to crime, per the FBI, property and violent crime are at historic lows (https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2018/crime-in-the-u.s.-2018/topic-pages/tables/table-1). I don’t know where you get the figure of 50 years of ‘“humane” strategies’”, but the fact that the numbers of people who can’t afford housing (including many who are enployed) have increased dramatically over the past 40 years does indeed call for creative solutions and widespread cooperation. Are some messed up? Definitely. Are the majority? Not so much. Please check out https://nationalhomeless.org/
He won’t
RVers, whether vacationers or full-timers, are people who by choice pay to rent a space in private or public campgrounds overnight. Homeless staying in RVs are people who by necessity look for public streets or lots to park their RV overnight and for extended periods for as long as possible, for free. These two groups by definition are at opposite ends of the spectrum. With minor exceptions, the first group would never contemplate defiling a public street, park or place intended for the health, safety and well being of society. The latter group sees public places as their own to be used and consumed in any manner they deem fit without obligation. That was never the intent of creating these public places. The laws concerning use of public streets and places need to be enforced for the public heath, safety and well being of ALL people.
After 50 years of camping and rving we are about to give up because of the things you mention in the article. We have taught our kids, grandkids, and now great grandkids to each pick up one bag of trash each time we camp. If everyone did this things would be much better. However, after talking with some of these folks you describe and witnessing them discarding trash, I find they just don’t care. Ever heard of “you can’t help someone who doesn’t want to help themselves.”?
Glad you wrote this article. Have mentioned before that my family and I have been harassed and accused of being that “homeless in the RV”.
We own a lot 1996 class-a. It used to be my parents. It’s still immaculate, but we all get lumped together.
When I was growing up, there were two classes of housing Owners and apartment renters. Then the concept of condos and townhomes came along and now they are the norm. Over the last decade, RV parks have gone from 20 percent permanent to 80 percent permanent. RV parks are mis-named. They are no longer for Recreation, they are a new form of affordable housing which is also now the norm. Now I dont have an objection to a family living in a nice 5th wheel, if thats what they can afford to keep a roof over their head. Most of the people I see are trades people going off to work in the morning. Their pickups have welder, contractor, drywall guy signs on the side. The KOA in Boise and SLC have their own school bus stops. Yes, the politicians should enforce the laws regarding people living in them in neighborhoods., I decided to face reality, permanent housing in RV parks is here to stay, Im just going to have to be more creative when Im on the road.
A lot of this article is written from the West Coast perspective. From Vancouver, Seattle, and down the coast through Kalifornia down to Baja Mexico it is pretty well known of the homeless problem facing most if not all of the Western states. A lot of this has to do with their outrageous tax structures and the public service unions that almost by themselves are pushing these states near financial collapse. Sixty Minutes had a piece earlier this year highlighting the tent cities in Seattle and speaking to one young lady who was a U.S Postal Carrier making in excess of $100K per year who lived in a tent in a public park. Back East when someone mentions they have an RV of some type when in a public setting the comments we receive are more of the “we have always talked about doing that/getting one and the adventure” then people looking down on us like we will be parked in front of their house dumping our waste tanks into the street.
The West Coast states, from Seattle down to San Diego, are all facing budget SURPLUSES, not financial collapse. Just google the facts. And the reason there are so many homeless in these states is both because housing is so expensive, and because the winter weather is so much more survivable there than it is on the East Coast. People like good weather, even the poor and the homeless, and low supply and high demand pushes up the cost of housing in popular areas like the West Coast. And much of this increase in housing cost is driven by investment companies that buy up housing, including entire condo/apartment buildings and housing developments, as a safe place to park funds and generate income through rentier economics, just like some are doing with RV parks…
The east coast has the same problems. Just left RV campground where our “neighbors” lived in a run down RV that looks like it will only move with the help of a sawzall and a dumpster. Very rude. Hunting season started and if you want to go hunting, fine, go hunting.
But when you are living in your RV you do not invite your friends over to meet up to head out at 4:30AM on a Saturday morning. Especially when the spaces are so close. They had their friends park in the empty spot next to us which was so tight it meant their truck doors were less than two feet from our bed slide. Nothing but loud talking and banging and slamming doors for about a half hour before they started their loud exhaust, bomb trucks up and left.
Amazes me that somebody thinks living in an RV is so great when in fact they can actually rent an apartment for cheaper and have about double to triple the room.
I guess that proves they do have “mental” issues.
States With The Largest Homeless Population Per Capita In The US
1.New York
2.Hawaii
3.California
4.Oregon
5.Washington
6.Massachusetts
7.Alaska
8.Nevada
9.Vermont
10.Colorado
There is certainly a percentage of the RVing population that is either criminal or incapacitated by drug/mental health issues, or both, just as it is in the general population. But, the public perception of all RVers as belonging to this population is in large measure the doing of sensationalist, money-grubbing media and politicians. The incentive structure of this publicity-seeking class of our society makes them the real threat to our future, IMO.