Dear Chuck,I read your articles on the Dysfunctional RV Industry with great interest as I am in the process of purchasing a new trailer. Since I am a member of an RV club I am familiar with the problems associated with faulty production and service of RVs. My trailer is new from the factory but I am still concerned that the unit will not be delivered with all parts working.
With that in mind I called my salesmen and told him I wanted to inspect my trailer with all electrical and mechanical systems hooked up. He asked what I expected when the trailer was ready for delivery. I told him I would inspect the entire unit and if everything was satisfactory pay the balance. He responded, “Oh no, it does not work that way.”
HE EXPLAINED that when the trailer comes in we will be notified. We will be asked to come in to make sure everything is as ordered. I would then have to pay for the trailer in full with a bank check. The trailer would then be sent to service for cleaning and to repair any deficiencies. Then I would be able to test the systems. I explained that this would require a 3-hour round trip to inspect and then another 3-hour trip to pick up the RV 3 or 4 days later. I wanted them to prep the vehicle and I would come in and pay after my inspection. When asked why this could not be done he stated, “No, we don’t do it that way, none of our stores do it that way and this is the industry standard.” I said, “I am the customer and I don’t do it your way.” I asked to speak to a manager.
I have a deposit on the trailer and did not want to lose the deposit. If that was not a concern, I would have cancelled the order. Is it standard industry practice to pay in full for an RV before you test all the systems? After a heated argument the manager agreed to let me hold some money back until a final inspection.
It is amazing to me that the RV industry survives treating customers in such a callous manner. Between the quality control issues, service problems and sales procedures it is amazing they are all still in business. —Richard A.
My opinion is this: It is incumbent upon you to discuss and agree to any “special” requests (or terms) you may have regarding your wanting to test all systems, prior to paying the balance. Once you put any money down, you are at the mercy of the RV Dealership. Most Dealerships, if they want your money, will agree to terms prior to placing any money down. If they don’t, I would suggest taking your money elsewhere, until you find one that will!
I would grab one of my most anal rv friends and thoroughly inspect it upon arrival. After we remove all inspection panels and identify every physical defect we can find, we’ll move on to the systems. By the time we finish, the dealer will be begging me to take my deposit back just to be rid of me.
I agree with you Glenn, but guess what if you’re looking to buy a modern RV with no faults you’ll never buy one, as things sit now, where the dealer becomes the quality assurance provider.
Faults and flaws inherent in RV’s and everything else consumers buy today should be corrected on the assembly line and/or well before you get near it with the final cheque or your most anal RV friend inspecting it.
Not surprised. Sad comment; really. As most RV Dealers & Salespeople do sound like sick Parrots. The Industry does need to get with Customer Service or Customers are simply going to move on. Consumer’s do have options!!
As a recent RV Consumer we bought, at knowledge risk, based on the Unit not the Dealer. Fortunately, I live with a Rottweiler & she can bite & she does not discriminate. Just ask me as I know 1st. hand & I played Hockey. She now goes direct to the Manufacturer as 1st. point of contact.
Dealer doesn’t get positive reference & Dealer’s Salesperson does not even get a mention. Dealer’s loss!!
Keep fighting Buyer. Wear them down to submission. Remember their livelihood does depend on Making the Sale. Sell Thru means $$$ 2Day!! & 2Moro!!
What was a sad comment Bill?
Maybe Bill meant “sad commentary” — referring to the state of the RV industry today and poor-quality products, and salesmen’s strong-arm sales tactics. —Diane at RVtravel.com
Now that you’ve swallowed the bait, it’s a little late to worry about the hook. However, there’s always your pain threshold to consider. If the agony of worry is overwhelming, run for the phone and cancel the deal. But if you like to gamble, wait for delivery and inspect the trailer. Hope to use the money held back as leverage against faults. Good luck with that. After taking delivery, lean on the members of your RV club for advice about Do-It-Yourself repairs.
What kind of nonsense are you pucking.
As a former dealer employee I can tell you that no, this is not standard procedure. Stick to your guns and be prepared to lose your deposit. Few coaches are delivered without issues and dealers often need to repair or replace missing or broken items. They get reimbursed from manufacturers for this prior to the buyer signing on the purchase. Some folks do 2 and 3 PDIs before signing.
It’s a PRE delivery inspection. Also, be vocal about your treatment by the dealer. Word of mouth is powerful (as evidenced by this outstanding newsletter) and the potential loss of business from bad press may help persuade them to allow you the PDI before you close the deal. But maybe not. You have to be prepared to lose your deposit. Some businesses are unethical like that. Good luck!
Bad advice Nancy – no consumer has to “be prepared to lose” a deposit. Never,!!
Bad advice here folks from someone obviously so tainted or indoctrinated by the crooked procedures they don’t know right from wrong or the laws that govern fraudulent practices in most jurisdictions I’m aware of.
Consumers stand up to these bullies!!!!!!!1
Richard, stick to your guns! My wife and I purchased a new camper in January of 2019. We did not test many of the features . This led to the discovery almost a year later that the furnace did not work. After getting it fixed under warranty, the first time we tried it, it again did not work. Now out of the original warranty period, the dealership agreed to fix it for free. It now works. So in hindsight, we really wish we had done what you are .
Good for you Richard A. It has been years since we purchased our last RV, but I do recall having an inspection on every single one after paying for it. We were fortunate that we never had any problems. I recall specifically in one situation when we were in the market for a motorhome. So happened to be at a Camping World. They did a complete inspection and trial run for us while we were contemplating buying it and we had it in writing they were replacing all the tires. They actually were great. In the end, we decided not to buy it, but they fully cooperated with us.
We had to put down a deposit on our RV when purchasing. (6 hour trip to look at and confirm purchase). We did thorough inspection at that time. Salesperson did not like that nor did he know how to operate things in motorhome. I totally made sure I turned on everything; furnace, generator, AC, slides, jacks, checked every outlet (six didn’t work!) We did NOT pay balance until items fixed. Returned two weeks later for pickup and walk through. Not good enough, didn’t pay and told them we would not drive off in that motorhome or pay until EVERYTHING was correct. Another night in hotel and then took final delivery.
This is exactly the right way to do it! As long as the money is in *your* pocket, you have the leverage. Once the dollars change hands, you are just taking your chances.
Also, keep in mind that until the money changes hands, the salesman, the sales manager, and others, are your advocates and will apply pressure to the service department to get ‘er done, so they can close the deal. After the deal closes, you’re just another schmo to the service department.
They would have paid for my hotel room. I hope they did yours as well it wasn’t your fault they didn’t have your new (now second hand repaired) Motor home ready for you.
You lose, you lose, you lose, they win, win, win that round, one more time.
Good job Nanci!
I would forget about the deposit and walk away. The next time you buy, explain your conditions and concerns before giving them any money. Have it professionally inspected before you take delivery and pay any balance and don’t take delivery until every problem found is corrected. That’s the way business is supposed to be done.
Maybe in your world Wayne, in mine i expect a new vehicle with zero problems just like at NASA and in all aviation. Nice guy consumers are being hit right, left and center in the wallet and there’s no reason you I or anyone else should take this crap anymore.
I didn’t and wouldn’t wait around to take delivery while someone fixed “every problem found” on my new anything.
In this case you’ve just paid new for a repaired unit.
It is easy for everyone to suggest walking away and losing their deposit. What if that amount is 4 or $5,000.00? Would you just throw that money away? I know we wouldn’t!
I purchased a new truck camper a couple of years ago from a dealer 4 hours away. It was on the dealer lot and when I called they couldn’t have been nicer. I knew this was the model of truck camper I wanted so I asked them to have everything hooked up and ready to test as I would be ready to pay for it on the spot. I arrived early in the day and inspected/tested everything. It was a new camper but I was not satisfied with the caulking on the roof and they immediately recaulked the roof. I paid for it, loaded it on my truck and was home that night. Best and easiest experience ever. Customers shouldn’t expect any less. After all,it’s your money.
Walk away.
My wife and I had ordered a Super C from a very large RV Dealership.
After driving 11 hours to pick it up I arrived and had been informed there was a problem with the flooring. At least the dealer was up front about it.
Once I saw how one of their techs attempted to repair a tear in the vinyl flooring there was no way I could take the coach home. Patching a full sheet of vinyl flooring is extremely difficult, if not impossible, especially in a very conspicuous place: the middle of the living area. It was a horrible patch job. Looked like I did it meself. In the end, the entire sheet needed to be replaced and that is a huge job…especially in a new RV.
The dealer tried to throw money at me to take it, but in the end I walked away. Not easy to do but glad I did.
After I told them for the 10th time I wasn’t taking the coach and they finally understood I wasn’t kidding the salesman pulled me aside and finally admitted that he wouldn’t have taken it either.
Bottom line: Walk away…Even if you lose a few bucks.
David you didn’t need to lose a dime if you would have placed conditions on that rig before you put your money down on it. The courts would have agreed that you’d signed up for a NEW Super C, not a second hand or repaired one!
If you’d done your due diligence before the money changed hands you’d have had every legal right to walk away – WITH YOUR DEPOSIT IN HAND.
You did those who follow no help by walking away from YOUR money & not challenging that dealerships fraud.
AND AGAIN, the buyer is treated like it is his fault he is treated poorly. I should not have to be a contract attorney, an RV inspector and an expert negotiator to be treated honestly and fairly by anyone selling me stuff. Good dealers deserve to make an honest amount on a sale. They should provide a valuable service for the money not to take me for an extra $100K through shady, sneaky “dealer tricks” that seem to be the industry standard. If an organization treats customers like they were their parents or grandparents they would be the best dealership in the land and the profits would take care of themselves.
Unfortunately you may loose your deposit. These days, paying up front for any RV (pop-up to Motor Home) before your own inspection (an inspection by an independent and certified RV tech is better) will most likely spell weeks if not longer getting what is already wrong from the factory corrected. If you walk away and loose your deposit, I would inform them you are recording the conversation with your dealer as to why you are not paying up front and why they are not returning your deposit. Then I would write a stern letter to the maker of the RV you were trying to purchase and ask them to return your deposit. You can also contact your states Attorney General about the business practices of this dealer and let the dealer know you are doing so. You can also inform the BBB as to your problems with this dealer and probably should have checked with the BBB about this dealer before making a deposit. We all have made mistakes that have cost us a deposit or down payment. But walking away should not be the end of the world and the sting will take less time to heal than paying the full price and dealing with what these days is more problems that may never get resolved. Wishing you good luck with this outcome.
Agree BUT why can’t consumers figure this out before money changes hands ??!!
When we purchased our tt the dealerships policy was a deposit by check & check wasn’t cashed simply held . It was written on purchase order that deposit was refundable for any reason. Payment for unit & final contract signing wasn’t till pdi was complete.
I will say this was a unit that was on the lot and not a ordered unit
I would travel half way around the country to buy my selected unit off the lot before I would resort to ordering one. The risk is just too great.
I have bought 20+ RVs, all from dealers, all but 1 new. Always a little down and the rest after PDI was accepted, Your dealer does not go by any standard practice! What you are asking for is! The name of the dealer should be posted here and let him know HIS standard practice will hit owner websites and all social media
Seems a good majority of RV buyers have stories of disaster dealerships but rarely does anyone name names to keep me from wandering into these places. Name names and let consumer dollars help improve the dealerships. I am scared to death to even visit these places as I know ghosts and goblins are going to pop up and get me somewhere along the way. It will, of course, be my fault for “Not doing my homework”. I don’t even know what homework to do.
The only thing that seems constant if that NO ONE cares for Camping World yet, they are still in business along with everyone else.
Cancel the order, get your deposit back, and buy from somebody else. Tell the next dealer how it will be. Evaluate the situation after that. Then, put it in writing. Again evaluate the situation as you go. Quit screwing yourself. I am amused how people choose to play the victim.
caveat emptor! Trust your gut. The sales people should be grovelling for you business, not dictating how they are going to take advantage of you. The salesman doesn’t get his commission until the balance is paid in full. What do you think is on his mind?
As in any business, you only have to be as good as the competition. Alas, in the RV racket, that’s a low, low bar.
If this isn’t a classic instance where the consumer should have placed conditions on the sales order giving him/her the right of refusal based on demands stated and which if not honoured would have given that buyer the right to tell the dealer to get lost -there’s no better example.
The 64 dollar question seemingly with no answer! At what point in time in a modern world will consumers realize THEY”RE in the drivers seat (before money changes hands) not the seller??????
Run away even if it means losing your deposit. Then use social media and BBB to inform others. If a local TV station has a consumer affairs reporter, use them also. The behavior of pay us first is unacceptable.
Problem is you did not negotiate delivery .
Bet you don’t do that schidt again!
NEVER, NEVER, EVER drop a dime of deposit money on a dealer without having iron clad written conditions allowing you, the buyer, to back out and demand return of deposit. With a non-refundable deposit the buyer just agreed to take whatever junk the dealer comes up with or pay for nothing. If the dealer won’t agree to a conditionally refundable deposit, with conditions you demand, just look for the door and walk toward/out it. Until he has your money in his hand you’re in control. If he’s got it unconditionally he’s in control.
In Tennessee a deposit can not be kept by the dealer. You are the customer,they need you. Your money will allow you to purchase anywhere. I would ask for my deposit back and go elsewhere. It sounds like they don’t appreciate your purchase.
Let me guess CAMPING WORLD!!!!
All sales are not final until you drive off the dealership lot. You have a right too 100% refund for any reason if you ask before you pay in full.
There’s no such thing as a NO REFUNDABLE DEPOSIT on any purchase.
Trying to read RV Shrink, but this article pops up instead.
Well, that’s very weird, mdstudey. The link works for me. Here’s the link to the Shrink, if you want to try it: https://www.rvtravel.com/rv-shrink-using-your-rv-head/ Sorry for the inconvenience. —Diane at RVtravel.com
It would be great if this excellent site were to have an Attorney draw up a Document with all of our reasonable demands of condition listed here. We would then give this to the Dealer to sign at the negotiating table. The General Manager will be called in and he will decide if the Deal moves forward. If the answer is no, walk away. Nobody needs a new RV. Buy used. Build $5000-$20,000 into the offer for unknowns. Repair, Update and enjoy! (Also, read your Contract! If something looks weird, walk or Send it to your Attorney!)
If I am the customer, and it is MY MONEY, why would they act like that. It is not that they are the “only show in town” but cater to the customer!
Don’t sweet talk salesmen glaze over the issues, and bring it out in the front. When you pay for something it needs to be checked out PRIOR to signing the deal and giving them the money!
Are they scared so much that their product will not pass inspection? What are they hiding from the customers in advance of taking possession of the RV?
This practice raises too many questions and very few answers from the RV sales companies!
“Industry Standard” doesn’t mean it’s law. so there is no reason why buyers can’t expect better. If EVERYONE requested inspection first, things would eventually change. That and getting the lawmakers to do their job and institute regulations that allow for first inspection. Time to lobby.
Right on.
Lets start an input group..list by name the lesser quality manufacturers, the poor service dealers, and put a stop to those causing our suffering. Enough is enough.
Many of us are living out the last of our lives, looking for the rewards of the rv lifestyle.
Hmmm, we had the opposite problem ( but a good problem ) We bought our Winnebago trailer 2 years ago. The dealer insisted on a 3 hour walk through inspection with us. Every single thing in the trailer was tested, all panels were removed to show us what was behind them. The guy even tested the dvd player ( it didn’t work, trouble shoot, a loose cable on the back, fixed on the spot ) and then it worked. He also went with me while I did a test tow, and made sure the brake controller was working properly. I have only heard good things from other RVer’s I’ve met that bought there. And so far everything still works. 12,000 kms of nothing but mountain towing. Can’t wait for warmer weather. Happy Trails.
The fact that you ordered the camper does necessitate a down payment. The final payment for me happens at walk-through and delivery which is with all systems functional. Don’t like the deal, walk away. Seems that you have made a compromise that might be satisfactory.
Look up UCC Rejection of Acceptance for your state (which was not listed). If they don’t let you inspect, then tell them the unit failed inspection and you want your deposit back. You should be able to sue to get your money back.
They all suck!
Our experience was that we had the walkthrough, all systems were explained and demonstrated and then we went through the payment process. It was a long day but in the end, we learned about the camper, saw that all the systems worked, and trusted our RV deaker.
I am a retired Car Dealer. If I ran my business the RV dealer way Id have gone outta business. I purchased a new Georgetown 12 years ago. My excellent dealer has closed and Ive been lucky enough to find a dealer who for the most part does a good job. There are enough manufacturers that it should be a competitive market. Dealers should be doing everything they can to keep the customers happy. The fact it seems many times they can’t is a reflection of the manufacturers.
This must change, quality must improve, customers have to be number one!