Dear Dave,
My question is: Are RV suppliers giving dealers the guidelines for setting up a camper on the dealer lots? For example, I have seen so many customers complaining that the slides are out of alignment or will not seal correctly because adjustments are off. And I can tell you the leading problem is because dealers are opening these campers up on their lots without properly stabilizing the RV before doing so.
Many customers do a walk-through of a camper without even noticing that the camper has not been stabilized. But you read the manufacturer’s guidelines and it clearly states that walking around a camper without it being stable causes many issues later, after the buyer has taken ownership. Then it takes weeks or months to get it fixed. —Joe King
Dear Joe,
Excellent question, and this brings up a very hot topic for debate. I was first introduced to slide mechanisms in 1993 while working at Winnebago Industries as Marketing Manager, and also while developing the product training program conducted at dealerships around the country. We started engineering the HWH Hydraulic Slide Mechanism into prototypes around that time, as we were using the HWH Hydraulic Leveling Jacks and could utilize the same motor and hydraulic fluid system.
RVs go through twists and contortions
At that time, the only motorized company that offered a slide out was Newmar, which used their proprietary rack and pinion mechanism from their 5th wheel models. During our testing, we subjected the chassis to various tests on our test track that had stretches of pavement with 4” and 6” sine waves, cobblestones, and 6% departure angles. Driving a unit on these different test patterns help tell a lot about the twists and contortions RVs go through.
We also had a platform simulator that could have each wheel positioned on an individual pad and simulate various degrees of out-of-level as well as vibration.
For three years, we tested not only the HWH version of the slide mechanism but also Power Gear, which had been introduced for prototypes and a few knock-off versions of the Newmar system. We decided on HWH for a variety of reasons, but one of the most critical factors in the proper operation and longevity of the mechanism and the room was leveling and securing the coach before extending the rooms.
Extensive testing of slide room
In our testing we were able to simulate what twisting would occur in a slight unlevel situation in a campground or other stationary location. The chassis would twist, which resulted in the sidewall twisting and the square room encountering resistance similar to a bad dresser drawer. This caused resistance not only to the framework and seals, but also make the motor work harder and increase the amp draw. Also, once we developed the system we wanted, the slide room was extended and retracted 14,000 times!
During our training sessions around the country, we would use a 6” wheel ramp and drive one wheel up the ramp on our units as well as several competitive models to demonstrate our superior foundation. Other units would have entrance doors and compartment doors pop open, and most would not extend the slide room due to the resistance. Ours withstood the twisting with no open doors and the slide room would extend, but you could really hear the motor growl! And this was with one of the most powerful hydraulic motors available, not the small ones used in most cases today.
Should you level and secure first, or extend the room first?
Every slide mechanism manufacturer that I have talked with recommends leveling and securing the RV before extending the slide. This includes Schwintek and Power Gear, both of which are now owned by Lippert, along with their other in-wall, through-the-frame, and under-the-frame mechanisms.
The debate comes from engineers at a few RV manufacturers that feel they know more than the engineers that actually designed the mechanisms. For example, Entegra states in its owner’s manual to first extend the slides and then level the coach. When I called and talked with a product engineer, he stated they want the unit in a “relaxed state” to extend the rooms. They use Power Gear, and the Power Gear engineer that I talked to stated his frustration with dealing with them over the years. He also stated they have more warranty issues with those companies that recommend extending the slides first. Just saying…
What about units sitting on dealer lots and at shows?
As I stated, I am a believer of leveling and securing the unit, so you bring up a good point about units sitting on a dealer’s lot with the slides extended and customers walking in and out and all through the rigs. Not only that, but I have conducted seminars for the past 30 years at shows all over the country and experienced the same issue. Some units on display do have the jacks down and the rigs are level and secure; however, I would say the majority do not and have the slide rooms extended.
I just conducted seminars in August and September and fewer than half the display models with slide rooms extended had any type of leveling jack extended. Several of the trailers had flimsy scissor jacks. I watched as several thousand people walked through these rigs and noticed how the units rock and roll side to side and front to back.
Having worked at over 100 shows for the past 30 years, I have seen how beat up the inside of units get—from carpet to even furniture. I think your point is valid about the amount of abuse the structure gets, including the actual room with several thousand people sitting on the sofa, dinette, and other furnishings in the RV.
What can you do?
I would say the bottom line is to do a thorough walk-around or Pre Delivery Inspection (PDI) of the unit before or when you purchase it. Ask to have the slide room and mechanism inspected by a qualified technician that can identify if it is out of alignment. You can also ask for the name of the mechanism manufacturer. Go to their website or technical support and get the actual specifications for side gaps, top and bottom clearances, and other issues that need to be inspected.
You might also enjoy this from Dave
Why does RV’s slide ‘pop’ and the cable keep breaking?
Dear Dave,
What causes the main slide to pop as it starts going out? This only happens after moving and the first time the slide is driven out. After the initial drive-out, it does not occur. After a few setups, the top front cable will break. The cable has been replaced numerous times with the same result. This problem has occurred since the trailer was new. Thank you for an answer. —Ralph, 2017 Keystone Outback RL326
Dave Solberg is a leading expert in the RV industry and the author of the “RV Handbook.”
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In the Newmar factory tour the question of “level before or after” was asked and the answer was “It depends.” At the time I was confused and frustrated, but after having large slides on my Newmar Mountain Aire, I understand.
Newmar slides don’t have the klunky -looking “flaps” on the slide room edges that sit on top of the sidewall when the slide is in. Instead, they fit flush into the wall opening. This makes it very easy to look to see if the room opening is square to the room. Especially with air ride, it is sometimes better when still on air. Sometimes dropping the air and leveling is what twists the chassis. Other times leveling with jacks first is best.
Belts & suspenders? Our 2017 Keystone travel trailer has an auto-leveling system. With each (admittedly seldom) move of our 3-slide trailer. I try to make sure the trailer is at least close to level using traditional methods (tire ramps & tongue jack) before opening the slides. Once the slides go out, I engage the auto-level system and double-check it with a 360 bubble level in several floor spots. As we don’t often relocate the trailer between seasonal use, even if not moved, I use the bubble level to check for settling at the start of a new season.
Personally, I always level before putting the slide out. My thinking is: “Why add more stress to the slide out?”
My thinking exactly. I always level first.
Like Dave, I’ve heard opinions both ways, a bit of indifference and even a few “it depends” tossed out to avoid OEM accountability.
The best answer is a question, “What is the worst that can happen if you restrict slide movement to only when you’re level?”
Other than seals, slides and mechanisms lasting longer, the worst that I can see is you might never have a “slide stuck” story for the campfire.
When I deploy my slide on a 30′ Class C Toga, it will cause the chassis to be off level. When I first level the coach, i have to allow for the slide change each time I want to use the slide out.