By Nanci Dixon
There are two sides to every story, right? Well, that means there’s another side to why there are so many empty campsites. You’ll find the other side of that story behind the campground check-in desk.
As RVers, like everyone else, as camp hosts we are seeing an amazing number of empty campsites. They’re reserved… but empty. We probably notice them even more than someone who isn’t. I have been finding entire weeks that are reserved, but the sites remain empty. Granted, a lot of those are non-electric sites, but still…
I talked to the park supervisors and they mentioned that the majority of campers here are from the area. “We are one of the largest non-private parks close to an urban area. With the high cost of gas, many families are camping close to home,” they explained.
People are getting angry over reserved but empty campsites
Being close to the city explains the huge number of reservations, but it doesn’t account for the no-shows and empty sites. The office mentioned that a number of people have been angry this year that they either couldn’t reserve a site or only could reserve a much less desirable site than the one that stood open for the weekend or the entire week. (We discuss this often in my Campground Crowding column.)
Refund system
The problem may be partly the refund system. Full refunds are only given eight days out. At four to seven days, you only get a half refund, and if you’re canceling in fewer than four days, you don’t get a refund. I had to cancel a recreation.gov campsite only one day ahead and still got a partial refund.
The park can’t afford it
The explanation and bottom line is that the park can’t afford a more generous refund policy. It is an urban park with local campers and the park keeps its rates low. People read the weather reports and if bad weather is projected for the weekend, they would cancel. If it gets cold and blustery while here, they cancel the rest of their stay. The park would lose too much money. This is a huge regional park with a hefty staff of maintenance people, mowers, landscapers, cleaners, electricians, security, supervisors, boat launch staff, beach attendants, check-in, reservationists, financial folks, people that cut and load firewood… the list goes on.
Understaffed
Even though there is a huge staff, they are still understaffed and under budget constraints. The reservation and check-in staff of three to four are already on the phone nine to ten hours a day. And that’s with online reservations available! Add last-minute cancellations and no one would get a call through! They have just added the option to cancel online, but that is still not alleviating the no-shows.
So what’s the answer to easing reserved but empty campsites?
What is the answer? Can campers be relied on to cancel in good faith without a refund? Evidently not. Can the park be more generous? They agree there must be a better way for the campers and for the park, but what is it? They have asked for suggestions from me and I am asking for suggestions from you.
Please use the comment section below to see if we, the users of the campgrounds, can come up with some actionable solutions. I’ll pass them on and we can keep the discussion going.
I’m with the campground on this one. After all it is a business. If there is no guarantee that a site, currently paid for, can be resold last minute, then from a business perspective “a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush”. The current refund policy stated in the refund system paragraph seems to be the fairest for all parties. Are empty reserved campsites really a big issue? From past articles in the “campground crowding section” of this news letter is appears that some have a problem and others not so much. IMO, life happens and we need to stop sweating the small stuff and enjoy what we have, including any campsites that we can get.
$250.00 hold on credit card upon reservation. No show no $250.00. just like damage deposit.
Yes, and release the site after 24 hours so others can book.
It would seem to me that this situation could be addressed, at least partially, by including policy language that explains the economic reason why refunds are not given after a certain time but also providing a refund if someone without a reservation shows up and wants to pay for a “reserved” but empty campsite in a supposedly filled campground. Many people will never return to a campground if they feel they could have been accommodated or treated badly. And language in reservation policies explaining that reserved campsites will be considered open in the event of “no shows” failing to notify the campground that they have been delayed but will arrive on such and such a date could help. That could open up a site for an over-nighter. In my opinion, it is inconsiderate and perhaps even rude not to cancel a reservation that you do not intend to use regardless of whether you will get a refund or not.
It’s simple, the entire daily fee for one day to reserve your spot, no show without notification of delay no refund and the site will be rented to the first come first served. We stayed in a campground in the Smokies that required the first day fee upfront for the reservation, if we were going to be late a simple phone call hold the site, if we didn’t call or didn’t show the site would be rented with no refund. No refunds were given if you canceled within 72 hours of your scheduled arrival time. At $105+ per night we showed up.
How about using the already automated reservation system to automate a confirmation process? An automated email goes out (for the example above) nine days before the reservation, all the camper needs to do is reply yes (camping) or no within 24 hours and they must reply. If the answer is “no” or no reply is returned, the system automatically issues a refund or not. Same at 5 days out. Then at two days out the email is sent but instead of a refund, a coupon for some % off their next reservation. This would give people some incentive for cancelling. Obviously this is not a perfect solution, but, makes it easy for campers, easier for staff, very little loss of revenue for the campground and releases more campsites for everyone’s use!!
Having worked the front desk at RV parks I know that a lot of people ignore emails from the park. Even an email telling them they have packages at the front desk or that payment is overdue. We even verify the email address and phone number during the check in process.
Wish they would read them!
I get the “we don’t have the staff to do it better (or different)”, but find a way to give a partial refund if, after a cancellation, the site gets used/rebooked!
On a small scale it is easy, in a large scale it would require computers & automation.
There is no benefit to canceling last minute or no-show {to anyone!}.
If you gave 50% or more back if a site is rebooked the canceloor gets something, the last minute booker gets a site & the campground makes up to 50% more income. Win win win & the extra money pays for the added tech & staff needed.
You could even charge a premium (a little) to the last minute bookers so they are placed on a notification list if a space (to their specs) comes up. They would only be charged if they got a spot. Call it a technology fee or whatever to enhance the software. Such a solution could be all online, and no extra staff required. For the phone callers it would be a simple one click for the staff to add them to the ‘in call list’
Tim, I like your ideas. The current policy of “canceling in fewer than four days, you don’t get a refund.” as stated in the article is not an incentive to cancel in my opinion, so I think the incentive of giving a 50% refund (as you indicated) for that time period if the site is booked afterwards would help those persons who would otherwise not make the effort to cancel. As far as the notification list, it too can be automated, the wait list can be managed online and the system can automatically send an email to the first person on the wait list once the original cancellation comes in and give the wait list person a certain amount of time (say 2 hrs) to make the booking or option to decline. If no booking by the end of the allotted time or it is declined, then the system can automaticiallly go to the the next person on the list and notify them and so on until booked. The nominal “surcharge” for last minute bookers could help offset the wait list notification software as you say..great idea. If the site is not booked by anyone on the wait list or no one on the waitlist, then the original booker does not get a refund if cancelled fewer than four days which would be an incentive to cancel before the four days to guarantee 50% refund.
If you are a ‘no-show’ your reservation is cancelled and the site becomes available again.
In Michigan State Parks, reservations (which are paid in full at time of reservation) are held until 3 p.m. two days after the scheduled arrival date. Failure to check in within 48 hours of the check-in time on arrival date will result in a “no-show” status and will incur the loss of two nights’ fees plus the reduced-stay fee (assessed on remaining unused nights using a sliding modification/cancellation formula which ranges from 10% to 40% – longer reservation held, higher the fee).
IMO, it’s eminently fair. It stops people from making multiple reservations at the same time, ensures planning and allows for full occupancy. It’s rare you’ll see an empty site on a Saturday night in a popular park.
I like it! Make a severe penalty for no shows, but then open the site up for another booking two days later. Very simple and effective, which should benefit everyone and penalize inconsiderate campers. What am I missing here?
Many have reported on this forum, and it has also been my experience, that weekends are by far the biggest issue with “booked full” campsites. Two full days of leeway doesn’t help the weekend situation at all.
While I like the concept, I think 8 hours after check in time without showing up or notifying the campground of late arrival might work better.
Regarding too many staff being on the phone all day when online registration is available…STOP charging fees for online reservations!!! Charge a fee for phone reservations instead. Or, if the campground must recover the online fees to pay their web service provider, charge more than that for phone ins. To minimize manual phone reservations campers need to be incented to use the online system. As it is now, added fees for online booking creates more phone reservations.
75% refund if the campsite is rebooked
That puts all the work on the campground staff. Change your mind? Why would a camper wait on phone hold when they’d get as big a refund by just not showing up? No responsibility means the camper just do not care.
If the parks would make a policy of giving out a percentage of empty sites after certain hours it would work. Unless the reserver calls in to confirm they are going to be late, their site would be released for the first come, first served campers. If they show up late there would still be sites for them.
Releasing 50% at 5 o’clock and 75% at 8 o’clock should create more revenue for the camp and more happy campers.
Thank you. You beat me to it. Hotels already do it, why not the parks
Agree! Typical motel, in our experience, needs to be cancelled 24-48 hours in advance or you pay up!
You could give a time limit for late shows. If you sign for Friday to Monday and you dont show up by Saturday at 9am and havent let you know they are going to be late then the site goes back up for use.
I realize that it would be close to impossible, but wouldn’t it be great if there was a standard, industry wide cancellation policy? That way campers and parks would all know exactly what to expect from a cancellation.
Maybe a program to tie refunds to reuse. If the site remains empty the no show gets no refund. However, if they cancel and the site is re-rented they are refund a prorated amount based on actual use. This would encourage earlier cancellations as the sites would be available sooner.
parks could choose to implement a processing fee for the slightly increased administrative work.
parks would not see a decrease in revenues.
more sites would be available for more visitors.
increased refunds would encourage earlier notification of cancellation.
Raise the rates.
Raising the rates is not fair to all who follow the rules. I’ve been camping since I was 5 years old and I’m 58 now. I’ve never left a campsite empty. Rates are getting too high as it is. I like the idea, if no show after 24 hours without a phone call, you lose your spot and money. Things happen, I understand. The reason for the phone call. This way the campground gets it revenue and the spot is available for last minute or drive ups.
So what’s your definition of “FAIR”.
All this discussion about reservations, rules, cancellation and refunds will be a thing of the past 6 months from now as the GREAT RV & CAMPING MELTDOWN hits full stride.
No show after 24 hours from the start of your reservation, it goes back to being available online or for walk ups, and you don’t get a refund. Campground makes their money and the site doesn’t sit empty. When you reserve a site you are told/warned of this policy. That is supposed to be the policy for DEC campgrounds in NY state. But, they drop the ball and the sites still sit empty. I don’t think they have the staffing to keep track of their sites.
I believe a lot of the issue is with the online system. Example, I had reserved and paid for a reservation at a State Park. I had to cancel, but was done a couple weeks in advance. Received the cancellation email. On the eve of my arrival date someone from park called me to verify if I was still coming or not. So apparently the online system never showed the site being available due to my cancellation. And I had received my refund. The online reservation system for State Parks is the worst. As busy as the parks are, one would think they could come up with a better system. Also a system that does not allow bots to reserve sites. Every time I use the system I have to be proactive because it continually puts in the wrong dates that I have picked. For people who abuse and are no shows, they should be charged an additional no show fee. (Or maybe be more respectful of others)
No show after 24 hours the reservation is released and the site is available, period. Failing to cancel a reservation is just plain selfish behavior.
I am unsympathetic to campers and campground owners. If you can’t get the spot you want do something different, go someplace else. That spot in that camp was not created for you and you alone. Get over yourself, you’re not that important.
Campground owners…if you can’t stand the pace then sell. If you are not creative enough to problem solve sell. You are not fit for the job.
To both catagories…Life is to short to spend so such time being miserable and angry. You think you got it soooooo bad. Try living in Ukraine. Or you can be a positive optimistic person and enjoy and embrace all new adventures and challenges you are presented.
Agree! Problem solving is key for Any business. I understand the frustration we recently booked at a campground which had to be last minute for us traveling to a funeral. We left a day early so we would not be stressed. We did end up with the worst campsite in the park but we’re grateful to have one. But the next morning when we woke up 50% of the book park was still empty. Of course including all premium sites. The owner explained they all had reservations. So I believe there should be a policy in place to keep all customers happy the best you can. We have a vacation rental business and if you cancel after the cancellation. We give the opportunity for you to get a refund if the spot books minus a 20% rebooking fee for efforts to try to book it. It works beautifully and we’ve retained a good relationship with all cost to make a little extra money on the side. It’s a win-win
Agreed.
I’m going to assume that in some cases the campground or RV Park policy doesn’t allow double booking of a site. My wife did a seasonal position and the park she worked in could not rent out a site that was already paid for. It might sit empty but they are making their money so corporate is happy. I would’ve for this park and all the others to change their policy if it’s this way. I’d go with something like, if you’re a no-show/no-call your site goes back up tomorrow and you lose out on your $$. (If you show up later too bad.) This would create more openings but would also anger people which is probably why parks and campgrounds aren’t willing to do it. They’d rather have empty sites than deal with confrontation. I’m betting it will get there though so hang in there 😉
What happens if you need to call “after hours”? Will there be anyone around to answer the phone or email/website contact and will your site still be there if you show up then?
It’s simple, if you are more than 2-3 hours late, without notice, you lose it and forfeit the deposit.
As avid campers we too have been dismayed at empty sites sitting unused but reserved. I say if you don’t call to inform them you’ll be a day late (or whatever) your site is lost and goes back up for first come first served after one missed night.
Agreed
Agreed.
If you make a reservation and can’t or decide not to go this policy should be in forced.
Cancel 5 days in advance full refund
Cancel after 5 days 1/2 refund if canceled on day 3 or 4 before your stay
Cancel after day 3 no refund day 2 or day1
Rent canceled site immediately
No show on day 1 with no communication from camper no refund
Rent no show site next day to someone who will appreciate it.
People are too self centered to think about what they are doing to park owners and other campers. Park owners lose money when sites are left open. Campers need to pay for not being responsible and considerate to park owners and other campers!
I believe part of the issue is that the state parks are so cheap, people don’t care if they get a refund or not. And not being considerate of others, which we are seeing more of while out camping.
If you don’t show up without calling or canceling on the 1st day, cancel any other days and keep the payment. On top of that don’t let the party get another reservation for at least a year, or more
There are still a few of us who can pack up and go with little or no advance notice. We may not be able to plan more than a few weeks ahead but rather than risk a night in a noisy truck stop we stay home. Since cancelled reservations often involve refunds, I would really appreciate it if a campground would email to me that site information at a price that makes up the difference after the refund. A relationship between a camper and a couple of preferred local/close-by campgrounds could satisfy both parties. A small, agreed to, fee for the service might be acceptable. A simple registration website could be shared by many/most/all and paid for by those add-on fees or included in the base reservation fee.
if the rented spot is cancelled and the park can refill it then give the deposit back to the 1st reservation. if the park can’t refill it the deposit from the first reservation is kept.
If someone is a no show, with out a call to explain: like road trouble, break down etc, then the reservation should be canceled and opened up for other people. Some campgrounds do this already.
Why not program an exchange feature? A person has a reservation they can’t use. They put the reservation into the exchange. Some days may be redeemed by someone and maybe not all then the fees that are non-refundable, reverts to the no-refund/ refund policy. A transfer fee is charge to cover the extra cost of programming that feature.
Like reselling tickets to sporting events or concerts. Nice idea.
I believe that the campground could inform the people who reserve campsites that upon cancelation, even though they would only get a partial refund, the campsite would be immediately available for resale.
In order to have a place to camp on the weekend, I have to reserve it up to 6 months to almost a year in advance. This year, I’ve had more luck with no reservations places but must reserve it on a Tuesday to get the weekend when I am off and able to camp. I assume this is the cost of being able to use the campground for the weekend.
Have a required check-in time, after which the site is released to rent to drop-in campers. No refund is necessary.
As I said above:
Terrible idea. Ever heard of traffic, construction, mechanical problems, etc etc? If we paid for a site, that site should be ours unless the owner provides a refund, and verified we aren’t just running late.
Shouldn’t you be the one notifying them that you are running late? Why should it be on the host to track you down?
Why not offer full refund minus a small “refund” fee if the site can be reserved by another party? The fee can fluctuate a little by how much notice is given, i.e. $5 for 5 days down to $1 for 1 days notice.
charge twice as much to reserve a site then when its used get half back
Maybe if someone wants to call and someone else wants to camp , you can refund the reserved campers money ONLY if their site was re-booked .
set a time limit, if they have not called by X hour or showed up by Y hour, site goes to next group that has requested it.
Yes great idea!
Terrible idea. Ever heard of traffic, construction, mechanical problems, etc etc? If we paid for a site, that site should be ours unless the owner provides a refund, and verified we aren’t just running late.
Everyone has a cell phone now a days. Keep it reserved until noon of the following day. Then it becomes available to the next person asking for it. If the orignal camper shows up they can then get the next available site.
My take as a former camp host. Our unofficial policy was to gift a paid site to the first camper that came in once we learned the camper who reserved the site was not going to use it. It was a “pay it forward” policy. Unfortunately, people were not appreciative for the gift, it seemed they felt entitled to a free site. They also seemed to be the most troublesome campers e.g. 8 ft. campfires, barking, unleashed dogs, domestic disputes, late check-outs. Needless to say we had to revoke this generous policy. It was less stressful for other campers and staff to have a few empty sites.
Possible solution – educate people to reserve ahead of time and accept that just because they own a camper they are not entitled to a campsite.
I feel like I’ve been on both sides of this, as sometimes we book far in advance, sometimes I’ve just forgotten about the reservation, sometimes we try to book last minute, often scoring canceled reservations and less often changing plans. Sometimes I’ve booked out a week, but arrived a day or two late, secure in knowing my campsite is paid for and waiting on me. What a I’ve never done is arrive at a campsite and said, “Dang I wish the campsite next door wasn’t empty all weekend and we hadn’t had a nice, spacious area to relax in!”.
Create a list of repeat offenders then ban them from the campground. Problem solved.
In an automated system, allow campers to cancel whenever and refunds only if the site is rebooked. I like the current refund policy, but just yesterday I wanted to reserve a site for last night and couldn’t find one available site on the Colorado front range. I wonder how many sites were left empty? I searched state, national, and commercial sites and could not find one spot to park my trailer. Allowing people to cancel online with hopes of a refund or partial refund if the site is booked by another party after their cancelation makes sense to me.
I like this idea.
Yes. I have a vacation rental business. If it’s past the full refund period we offer a refund if they cancel and allow us to try to rebook. If we rebook they receive a refund minus a 20% rebook fee. We can’t frequently and about 30% of the time we could not complete our reservations and about 10% of the time we cannot fulfill the complete reservation. If they offer me some type of refund, I would let them know. But in all honesty it’s not fair that they double dip. That’s why I offer this program for my own guest. I understand both sides and the loss of income. But with a great demand these days we fine even on our vacation rental homes 90% of the time we are able to fill the vacancy. Hope this helps
The parks (all private and public ) should not allow reservations more than 30 days in advance. People who book a year out are usually just fooling themselves about where they want to go.
A few year years ago we were going to Wyoming but got delayed in Utah and stayed there instead luckily we didn’t have reservations elsewhere so others were able to enjoy themselves instead. This year we planned on the UP but later changed our minds and went to Tennessee .
If you allow reservations more than 30 days then they should be paid in full and non refundable. Many times the people who don’t show have made multiple reservations and only feel they are entitled the hell with the rest.
That’s not true. I booked our entire summer 10,000 mile itinerary up to six months in advance. The shortest reservation windows were for national parks and even those were a few months. This summer we only missed two of our reservations because we had a mechanical issue.
Breakdowns happen, we had one also and instead of no showing we rebooked for a few days later and went after the repair.
I owned a smallish sized business for years and if you think about the preparation that’s done for your arrival it all cost the campground money. Nothing worse than planning your company finances and then having it disrupted afterwards. Some of these parks are only operating 4 to 6 months a year and they need to make a profit in order to stay open. Think about it if other people’s irresponsible behavior causes parks to close then where are going to camp, in your backyard?
Anybody that throws a party and then has a lot of no shows know this feeling and probably quit throwing parties.
First come first served don’t need reservations that way it would save everyone involved a headache
But you’re not guaranteed a spot and when you’re traveling far from home, it’s a gamble, so rather the headache you get stressed
I agree!!
Its nice for locals but guess locals wont spend as much or bring money into a local economy .No one is travelling 4 hrs for a site to be filled .
If you’re travelling out of state or have a long drive day, first come first served wouldn’t work very well for folks with only weeks summer holidays to spend half the time trying to find a campsite at their holiday destination. I think Al the camper below is onto something with only booking no more than 30 days in advance.
All this discussion about reservations, rules, cancellation policies and refunds will be a thing of the past 6 months from now as the GREAT RV & CAMPING MELTDOWN hits full stride.
I can’t wait.
Some pretty good ideas posted here already.
Having grown up on the campground that my brother now owns, and being a retired software engineer, I have some insights into this issue. While there are a few online campground reservation systems, the good ones are expensive. Software features cost lots of money to develop and maintain. It just isn’t a business with sufficient revenue to pay for the overhead cost of really robust software.
Having said that, how about offering a credit for a future reservation when you cancel? The park isn’t out any money and the camper gets to retain the value of their deposit. It would be more complicated to track, but since the majority of campers are from the local area (true of my brother’s campground too) most people would have a strong incentive to cancel since their deposit goes into the “reservation bank”.
I like this idea. And we frequent a local campground that at least used to use this system. They’ve stopped. They seem too busy to care if campers get screwed now.
I agree with you Brian. The reservation bank gives the right incentive without it being punitive. Perhaps even the amount of days in advance you cancel correlates to how many days you “bank”. This way the park doesn’t lose money and the spot can be open for others. (And the park can make more money) I am not a fan of first come first served for the reason many others prefer to have a reservation. I do support there being some for the spontaneous, but I don’t think more would solve the problem.
I also like the idea of after 24 hours and no contact the reservation is released. Not sure if this would work for through-hikers who may not be able to keep a schedule easily.
Additionally, not sure which site we’re talking about but most that I’ve used are very challenging. It is difficult to find a site and book it, let alone modify.
I would have cancelled a reservation I had over 4th of July weekend several months out but they only offered credit for doing it. I decided to leave the spot empty as I had no intention of going to this area later. Figured why give them the extra money for using my site twice.
The problem seems to be no shows with no prior notification of that event. Campgrounds – if you have a website, post a decision tree that assigns a fee against the deposit for every key event between the time of the initial reservation and arrival or no-show. Have the camper acknowledge the agreement, either verbally, by signature or checkmark at the time of the initial reservation by phone, text or online. Knowing and acknowledging that the reservation fee is on a sliding scale, that increases over time, encourages a cancellation response in a timely fashion. Should they fail to cancel or show, the pre-acknowledged agreement should settle the matter. This same agreement could also contain the park’s policy on failure to appear based on unexpected circumstances such as mechanical failure.
I’m not a campground owner but I am a small business owner (and married to another one). This strikes me as WAY too complicated.
If the site is not occupied within 24 hours of the arrival date check in time and there has been no notification by the inbound camper; the site should be released for reservation by another camper.
Best idea is Gary’s comment above. 24 hour notice of arrival if a no show or no notifification, release the reservation.
I agree!!
I agree!
Good approach.
Make a higher percentage of the sites first come, first serve. Last Labor Day weekend I had friends who did not join us because all of the sites were booked, yet the campground was never more than half full. More sites should be non-reservable.
However, i do not see this changing. It’s like the person who pays for a gym membership but never uses the facility. Easy money for the owner.
I agree with Gary that a site should be released to be reserved again if it goes unoccupied for 24 hours after the initial reservation began. No refund issued in this case. If a reservation is canceled in less than 7 days (or whatever number of days you prefer) of the reservation, then issue a partial refund based on how many days of the initial reservation get reserved after the site is released. We tend to travel several hours to campgrounds, so we are not keen on large numbers of sites that cannot be reserved in advance.
if a camper is a no show after day one give up their site if they show up and their site is occupied give them another.only do this for a percentage of empty sites leaving the others empty and see what happens.
I hate that most sites are reservable now. In the old days the early arrivals got a site and the later arrivals went on down the road.
If I’m not getting a decent refund I don’t bother canceling. I understand why they don’t offer short notice refunds, but they can also understand why I don’t bother. If I order a pizza and by the time it shows up I decide I don’t want pizza I’m not going to call the pizza restaurant and tell them to charge me for it and keep it.
Despicable, Marcus. The pizza analogy is not valid.
I made reservations on Recreation.gov and kept clicking on “Cancel Reservation” to the right of the reservation and nothing happened. A month later I realized, I have to click “Cancel Reservation” in the left navigation menu. That is NOT intuitive at all! So, I ended up not canceling two reservations in the beginning of June. I just didn’t go.
If no show of more than 24 hours with no notice to staff (add online feature for remote check-in/staff communication so it is in writing and minimizes staff time), open the reservation for others.
Depending on state rules about double booking the campground may need to refund the original transaction if another camper is found. If that is the local law, then only open these unused campsites to in person/not reservable campers in order to minimize staff administrative needs (i. e. when to process a refund for the original camper) .
The park could offer 100% refund in the event the space is booked and used by someone else. The original party who reserves the spot can let the park know they’d like to have the park “resell” the spot. And in the event they are able to resell it, the original party could get a 100% refund.
Maybe a program that only gives the original family that made the reservation a refund if the site is re-booked. This leaves the campground recieving the full amount and provides some kind of incentive to cancel if not going to be there.
Why not allow a higher percentage refund if the site is re-booked or allow a transfer option where someone can put their site up for re-booking and transfer it to someone else’s name and credit card if they know someone that wants it. Same fees apply to both parties obviously. I see people post on our FB groups all the time about not being Ble to make it if anyone’s interested.
You could also let someone go online and mark their site for re-booking if they don’t know someone that wants it so it opens the site back up in the system and generates the refund based on if someone takes it. That seems like the simplest and most effective solution.
I have had some locations do the partial refund unless they are able to fill the space for the days cancelled then they provided a full refund. That was very much appreciated.
We had reservations at a National Park Campground which I believe was Mesa Verde. I received email messages from them constantly regarding our stay along with current park information. There were also reminders regarding cancelation if our travel plans had changed. At first I thought it was annoying but I found myself reading all the current park information and pacing myself to ensure we were on schedule for our check-in date just in case we needed to cancel. We still receive information from Mesa Verde regarding lodging and camping regularly and I stay updated even though I don’t see us returning anytime soon.
We also experienced this with Benton Hot Springs just north of the town of Bishop CA.
With both of these stays we noticed that there were no vacant campsites, unlike everywhere else we travel. I believe the constant reminders along with current information keeps people engaged so they make their trip or they cancel in time due to the weekly reminders.
Make campsites first come, first serve. As a little girl (1970s-1980s), one of my favorite memories was packing the car/camper, driving with my parents very early to the campground to get in line for a campsite. This also gave us the opportunity to meet other people “in line” and make new friends. How about changing the reservation system to include a clause like hotels… If you don’t show (on day of check-in) you forfeit your reservation deposit. This way campsites will not sit empty waiting for someone to show up.
Offer a refund if the park can re-rent the space. That’s incentive to cancel and an opportunity for someone else to get a spot.
That’s exactly what I was thinking. There is no incentive to cancel if you aren’t getting a refund.
Not have all sites available for reservations. Hold some open for drive in and last minute. Put an option when someone is cancelling to allow for re rental of the site, even if no refund is being given. I think some would be ok with that, I would. If you can’t use the site and can’t get a refund then let someone else use it.
Recreation.gov No Show Policy (partial) as written on their website, . Government campground vendors could make even more money and there might be more short term arrival sites available If they just follow the published rules. The camp host may need to take more of an initiative.
A no-show customer is one who does not arrive at a campground and does not cancel the reservation by check-out time on the day after the scheduled arrival date.
It is recommended that staffed facilities hold a campsite until check-out time on the day following the arrival date.
There is no change fee if a customer extends or shortens a reservation if the change includes dates from the original reservation. If they choose to depart early, they may forfeit some or all of the recreation fees.
Private Campground managers might look to Airbnb’s policy on cancellations and no shows.
https://www.recreation.gov/rules-reservation-policies
Well said. If a no-show by checkout time the next morning of the 1st night of the reservation, the reservation is canceled and the site become available. For reservations on recreation.gov (at least in theory) there would not be any “empty but reserved campsites” that extended for days or weeks after the initial no-show
If all campsites were easily transferable that would help. Sometimes you can’t sell your space that someone else would love to have.
They should create a site to Allow people resell their sites at no profit – this would allow a total refund for the person and the new person gets the campsite
I like this idea.
So it would be just like concert tickets. Bots would buy them ALL and then campers would have to pay 5x the price.
All no shows after 24 hrs should simply result in a canceled reservation. No refunds either. Bam the site is available! I believe this would be very sustainable as long the demand exists. A late check-in to only be available for a fee during the initial 24hr window of the reservation. The late check-in could be renewable for another 24hr period for a fee until all reserved days are exhausted. I think this could provide the flexibility for someone who is truly committed to using the site. Optionally if they actually show up refund the fee(s) but this option could be costly since human resources may be required to verify.
That still leaves prime sites empty on Friday and/or Saturday nights, which is when the crowding is a problem. Who cares if a site is released on Sunday when the campground empties out.
That’s fair. Maybe a fee for no-check-in? That might deter those who are flippant about not showing up.
1. No-show penalties if they never arrive without contact.
2. Another poster’s suggestion to offer mitigation to cancellers: if we re-let the spot we will refund you what we get for the new reservation. They could even encourage people to shop for discounted cancellations in a Priceline sort of model.
I understand that things come up. You may be late due to circumstances beyond your control. There are allowances for that, sort of a late period to arrive without losing your spot. But deciding not to come without canceling is thoughtless and rude to other campers who would have loved to come but couldn’t get a reservation. Maybe it’s time for fines – if you don’t cancel your reservation of two or more nights your card is automatically charged $20.
Here’s a possible solution. If we are required to check in during office hours, then we can also be required to either check in or place a we-are-delayed call TO A NUMBER THAT A HUMAN BEING ANSWERS, by 6 p.m. on the arrival date. Failure to do one or the other results in automatic release of the site to a waiting list or walk-in camper.
IF the site is rented to a new camper, then you get a full refund, automatically. If it’s not rented, then you forfeit half of your fees.
It’s not rocket science, it can be done this way, hotels do it all the time. The real problem is campgrounds which are unattended, or have staff too busy to answer the phone.
What hotels do this all the time?
This is what I was going to suggest. If a party doesn’t check in at a certain time, during their scheduled stay, the spot is relinquished.
Though, I think the original no-show party are not refunded. I don’t think people should book a spot and flippantly no-show. A lot of people feel entitled to spaces, and don’t care about consequences.
Also, possibly if someone is on record for regularly no-showing, maybe give them a one year suspension. Arguably, if the spots are that nice, more people will show up if they know they won’t be bullied out by locals.
Spend all summer in Forest Service campgrounds in Montana and the no shows for reserved sites are horrible! Solution? Do away with the entire reservation system in all federal land campgrounds or at least leave half the sites open for first come, first served campers!
While this would not help to solve the whole problem, maybe making people leave a cell number during reservations. Camp could send a text 3 days before asking if person was going to use reservations. Automated response system, y and n, if answer y or no response camp site stays reserved, answer no is sent a confirmation of no intent then campsite is opened for reservations
Penalty charged if no show/no cancelation
Maybe then people would cancel
How about one day no show/no call, the site would be available for walk-ins. At least then, I could get a site for Saturday night. This would require the least manpower, and no phone calls.
Keep no refund late in the game, but allow the rsvp to be put back in circulation, like an “auction” for a new rsvp, and if taken then a credit, less an appropriate tech processing fee, would go back to the original rsvp and the park isn’t out any additional monies or administrative costs.
I think that campground should give full refunds to any campers thoughtful enough to cancel (if the site is then rented.) I think there should be a meaningful monetary penalty for no shows. Maybe as much as a penalty for half the cost of the reservation. That way people would cancel or take a financial hit.
Wisconsin state parks allow up to 11 months booking. I don’t mind this, because in my line of work I cant schedule vacation with less than 2 weeks notice. State system only allows up to 5 cancellation notifications for areas that you like to camp during your specified time. What I like to see from our state system is a point system to allow only so many weekend bookings. I like to camp somewhere for a week, but most of the weekends are booked stopping the week at Friday. Maybe it be better if it was weighted or some sites were reserved for full week bookings first, then afterwards weekend bookings. I already booked for memorial day next year and most sites were gone. On the state system you literally have to stay on top of the 11 months timeline to book. Private campgrounds haven’t been as much of a hassle to me.
Yes this is a definite problem. We were recently at Dinosaur NM and the hosts told us that some nights half of the reserved sites are vacant. Part of the reason is that with the senior rate it is actually cheaper to no show than to cancel! We are now at Colter Bay in Grand Teton NP. We had no one around us last night even though all reserved even on a Friday night. This used to be FCFS and never empty sites.
Just a thought how about short notice wait list. If the original reservation bails at the last minute maybe split the reservation cost between the two reservations. The campground gets the full reservation rate and the original reservation doesn’t lose as much and the second reservation gets a better deal.
WWI understand the issue with refunding cash, but they could
Create a refund credit account for future use, with bonus for early cancelations
If there is no one and nothing there within 12 hours of reservation occupying the site, or for more than 24 hours during reservation and no communication from reservee, they can rent out the campsite again, if they get someone else to rent, give the original person 50% back per day.
How about this idea? We all know how difficult it is to reserve a camping spot as you must wait 180 days before hand and be very timely to the minute (like winning a radio contest). If you can’t attend your reservation, the current refund policy still remains in place, but you receive a “earlybird credit“ for making any reservation in the future. Such that when you were looking for next year, you could use one of your early bird credits to reserve a spot one hour before everyone else. Reservations are still made, money is still gathered, and you take advantage of the very difficult reservation you achieved this year. Win win for everyone.
Maybe a full or partial refund if the site is able to be used by another camper after canceling.
If you do not show up within 24hrs of check in, then the site should be released and re-sold to someone else. If the site is reserved then the original first person should get partial refund. There should be a fee for not contacting the park and giving cancellation notice deducted from their refund. They should also be allowed to transfer people from one site to another. Why let a waterfront spot remain empty when someone else really could use that spot.
Recently I was talking to a neighbor camper (was a day late to check-in) that booked the site beside me (The site I wanted to begin with) and mentioned how I liked the site he was at better, but he already had it rented for the week so I just ended up with the one I had. He said to me “Yeah, I rented for the week, but I knew I wasn’t going to be able to make it till today, I do that so no one gets the spot I want for the weekend, and just do a no-show for the day, but show up the next day.” I am pretty sure it is not only him doing this. I would suggest a simple idea of “If your not checked in by check-in time on the day of you reservation, and it is not occupied by the following morning by 6am (opening up FCFS spots at 7am) then you forfeit you fees and campsite fee. If your site is reserved by another party you get your money back, or the option to choose another site for the days available. If you arrive and your site is still available, you check at front by 6am it is still yours.
My suggestion would be to offer a refund but only if someone else took the place. You could also give it as a credit for a later stay to improve cash flow.
When I visit my son, his wife and grandkids in NE I often stay at a city park. They have a rule that you must have something, a chair, or something similar, in you campsite. If the campsite is left unoccupied with no belongings for 24 hours, your reservation is automatically canceled, without a refund, and the site is open on a first come first served basis. So any no show is automatically canceled the next morning.
Create a page, a Facebook account, or a spot on the campsite page where you can post you want to cancel your reservation if someone would like to pick it up and pay for the site. The page could handle the money transfer. Possibly the park could handle the transfer
I would say IF the site is re-rented out they provide a more generous refund.
Here’s an idea: no refunds at all. Ever. While I understand a refund might be an incentive to cancel a reservation, I think the real problem lies in indiscriminate booking. That is, people are booking three or four blocks of one week stays, knowing they will only actually be able to make one or two of those blocks. I’ve talked to people that do this, and they say it’s because they are forced to book so far in advance without knowing their actual work schedules. If people know though in advance that they will not get a refund, under any circumstance, they will use a lot more discretion when they make their bookings.
1000% agree with you. Campsites are cheap enough that people hoggishly gobble them up months out and then cheery pick the dates they want and then forget or just don’t care if they no show. No call/no show cancels your entire reservation after 24 hours and no refund. That will eliminate the ones that book Monday Sunday just to make sure they get the weekend they want.
Agree. The double and triple booking is a problem. I met a retired gentleman at a campsite in Iowa who was on his way to Florida. He said he had to decide which campsite to go to because he had multiple reservations. So there were at least 3 campsites tied up because this guy reserved 3 way in advance. Since he was retired he could do that. Rather than penalizing people a better system may be one that gives you more of a refund the farther out you cancel. Wait until the day before or fail to show no refund at all.
After reading your article, i now realize why i was treated for a cancellation last year. One site took my payment for the ENTIRE reservation period ahead of time. I tried to cancel at least a month ahead of time. They simply gave me a rain check “Good up to one year”. What could i do? Fortunately, it was only for one night. They didn’t inform me of any restrictions at the time of my reserving it. I know now to ask about cancellation restrictions. Worked for him and he still had plenty of time to reserve it for others. He could have simply told me, that after no 24 hour notice of possibly a late arrival, the entire reservation was up for grabs and if reserved, before my reserved time, they could have negotiated a possible restricted refund. My sympathies are with the campsites.
Like a few others have said, a full refund if someone else takes the spot. Never being able to reserve a spot again for not cancelling and not showing up is something that would also encourage people to notify the campground.
At a business I had, if you didn’t show up or call to say you couldn’t keep an appointment, I never let you have another one. If I was busy, you’d have to come back at another time and hope I could fit you in.
If people don’t show up the first day of registration then they should be fined double what they paid.. They need to learn to cancel so we who have to work during the week can come on the weekends. I would tell anyone looking for a camper, don’t.
Well i think it’s horrible keep our campsites for locals only only allow locals to reserve but if they don’t show that’s on them not the park rent that site to someone who really wants it and is there I’m a disabled veteran i loveto camp there’s literally two campgrounds within 4 miles of my house and i can’t get into either of them because of this
One problem for us has been having to book a two night minimum when we knew we would only stay one night. Thus our site was left empty the second night. We even told the park we would be leaving (and did not expect a refund) and that they were free to offer it to others. They said they could not do that—it would be double booking. Why require a two night minimum? Frustrating for us and for those wanting a site.
Make it so if there’s a no show without notice, the site is opened up for first come first served use. It’s not ideal, but for those campgrounds that are near urban centers, utilization would increase along with spending at the concessions etc. The campground would keep the cancellation fees and book more income through increased use.
Seems like a no brainer to me.
Don’t use reservations, first come first served.
My suggestion is to have a “reservation hold fee” (or call it whatever) of
$100 that is paid when you make the reservation. If you check in on the correct day, it is refunded automatically.
If you are going to have a late arrival (say, within 24 hours), you can go in the website, pull up your reservation, and pay a $25 late fee. So, if you get a flat tire and are detained, you don’t lose your site but pay $25 late arrival charge. You would still get your reservation hold fee refunded.
Also, it would be awesome if the citizens of the particular state have first dibs on the state parks that their tax dollars pay for. For example, Florida residents (must put in your drivers license number maybe?) can book state parks 11 months out, while residents of other states can book 6 months out.
Just some thoughts!
I like the first part of the idea. We were recently (mid June of this year) traveling with our son’s family. (Two families, two rigs, two sites) His TT had a broken axle. It delayed our arrival to our next campground reservation. We called the campground directly and spoke to a real person once and had to leave a message once. The person we talked to said she made a note on our reservation about our circumstances but the person physically at the campground (such as a host) didn’t seem to be aware of our circumstances when we actually arrived. (for the third night of a three night reservation). Fortunately our site was available to us as planned. So depending on the campground size and system being used Communication will be the key to its success. An emergency, after hours number to a real person would be my ideal. Because who knows if messages will get listened to in a timely fashion.
The second part of the suggestion…not so much. We travel a lot. Our presence in another state often results in my spending dollars in support of the economy in that state. Gas, campfees, groceries, restaurants, retail establishments and hopefully not very often, associated RV/vehicle related repairs. Under the second suggestion, when making reservations to visit a desired area I will face the problem of not being able to book a desired site for a family wedding or reunion (date/location specific, not flexible), scheduling a site to spend time with grandchildren over a popular holiday season (again date/location specific, not flexible) and the like. If your home state relies on the hospitality/travel business (which camping is part of) it really isn’t conducive to good business to penalize visitors to your state by limiting when they can make reservations and therefore limiting the liklihood of them coming to your state to spend money.
if the campground refunded the cost, when someone else gets to use the site, they will still get the original amount of money.
It would seem to me that 2-4 days does not allow enough time to re book a site unless they are lucky enough to have walk in guests. I’m sure not all demographics have that much traffic that goes on vacation without making reservations, relying on hoping something is available.
How about simple doing away with reservations all together. The system was to developed to abuse. Maybe even impose stay limits. State and federal park were built for all and just a few horders.
The answer is simple: institute a policy that would automatically cancel any reservation after the first day of no show unless the customer calls and says he will be there late. Force them to prepay for their reservation and refund only a prorated amount based on how far out they cancel. In any case don’t refund the first day.
If the camper doesn’t cancel 1 week prior. They lose their money and reservation privileges for 6mo. Next offense 1yr loss. 1 wk prior, camper gets 1/2 money back, other 1/2 goes towards expenses.
This is simple. If you don’t show up the first day and don’t call you lose your site. If you call and still don’t show up you get a strike. Two strikes and you’re banned in that reservation system for two years.
If a reservation doesn’t show the first day and does not call to cancel or let the park know they will be late. Let someone else stay in there spot. This way the park makes twice as much and incentivizes them to cancel in advance to get a refund.
Totally agree. And we’ve stayed in campgrounds with this policy!
I agree with this. There can also be a time limit in the evening. If someone does not show up (or does not call/email informing them that they will arrive late) then the site should be released for the whole reservation period to other campers. No refund should be offered in this case.
Additionally, I think if someone repeatedly no shows in the same reservation system they should be blocked from making reservations for a period in the future.
Re-renting no-show spots would greatly increase revenue, and I’ve stayed at many campgrounds with this policy, but there’s no incentive for park employees to actually do it.
It’s more work to re-rent and manage a full campground and they’re already overworked.
Clearly, no one higher up knows. They’re not driving around the campground every day, verifying the status of each site.
I certainly wouldn’t give last minute no-shows any rebate for doing nothing. It would exacerbate the problem.
My preference for all but the most popular campgrounds is to make all sites first-come first-served.
I know this makes people cringe who need full hookups, but the problem usually isn’t crowding, it’s all the vacant reserved spots.
Don’t use online reservation because we want to camp for 14 days and couldn’t stay one site this long cuz too many people reserved weekends extremely frustrated! Who ever came up an idea online reservations is a BAD idea better first come first serve like always before never had problems.
How about putting in your terms if your site is canceled and someone else rebooks it then you get your money back, if nobody rebooks it then you are on the hook for the bill. Many would-be rebooked, and that money would go for the refund for the first person that booked and paid. The park wouldn’t be out the money, and the site wouldn’t be empty.
Yes!
I like this idea, similar to some apt leases.
Don’t do reservations! Make it first come first serve!
As a full time traveler it is so much better, easier!
I hate reservations. Parks have no vacancy problems with FCFS
This causes many problems for families. We were all for FCFS pre-kids, but once we weren’t able to sleep in our car in a bind anymore having reservations became critical. Packing (which takes so much longer with kids) then driving several hours and then not being able to find a place to camp or having to drive for several more hours in hopes of maybe finding a spot would be awful. It would destroy the relaxing nature… In fact, we’ve tried it and now only camp if we have reservations (we’ve never no showed though). The stress isn’t worth it. We want our kids to appreciate camping and love it the way we do… Hunting for campsite for hours would leave them with a distain for camping.
I find that when I reserve a campsite it is usually only 1 or two days before I plan on camping and I’ve found(especially this year) that I had to settle for the last one or two spots not reserved. So I get to campground and there’s only 2 other campers. All other sites are empty. I think one of the problems is when people do cancel that there site is not emmedietaly marked as available online. I also think that if someone does not show up on the day they have scheduled and does not call with a reason there not there yet, that site should be considered available. No matter what people can call or go online if they broke down or have a good excuse for not being there. And also if they are worried about a little rain they probably shouldn’t be campers in the first place. They should stay home or go to a hotel. People should not get there full amount back for canceling because of rain or because it’s going to get a little chilly.
I am a disabled vet and pay only 10.00 for an entire stay. I tried to cancel a site at Cathedral Pines Suffolk Cty. NY 3 weeks in advance of my reservation and because it was 48hrs after I booked the site they charged me a $30.00 cancellation fee on top of the $10.00 fee for a 4 day stay. So now I paid $40.00 to give up the site 3 weeks earlier than the reservation. So I cancelled then looked on line and the site was available and immediately booked by someone. The cancelation system fees cause people to sign in then leave and not stay. No penalty. Something is wrong with this system.
Agreed! I would like to cancel if our plans change, but refuse to do it if it costs more to cancel than to no show.
I think the problem is that the site fees are so cheap that people will reserve a spot as a back up plan, And then just forgo the money. We certainly don’t want expensive campsites, however, there needs to be some disincentive for people reserving spots who are willing to lose the money. Perhaps a deposit of a sufficient amount that is fully refundable when you show up would be one good answer. Maybe $150 that you won’t get back if you don’t show up.
Now that’s an idea. I agree seems some people don’t care about the refund and won’t take the time to cancel.
This is simple. Require a reconfirmation seven days in advance and require full payment at that time. If cancellation would be because of weather forecasts go over a week out.
I wonder how difficult it would be to program the reservation system to send an email or text to people with reservations a couple of days prior to their first night’s stay. Ask them to confirm they are actually going to use their reservation. If they say “no”, then open it back up to others. Also, program the system to allow campers to “tag” a campground so that, if there’s a cancelation they will be notified.
Exactly what I have been saying. I have been told that Reserve America is working on this. Hope that is true as many states where we host uses this system. An email could include a link to the cancellation page.
I have been reading your comments. I am a veteran with an old travel trailer. I can’t afford anything newer, and don’t even try to get in the state parks (Colorado). I’ve been told parks don’t let old trailers in, so I just don’t try
You are being told less than the truth .. Here in Oregon the State Parks don’t care how old your trailer is or if you even have an RV! You can get a 1st come 1st served or a full hook up and throw your blanket down and sleep under the stars if you wish. Same in many other state and federal parks .. Go out and enjoy yourself .. The truth is out there!
In my experience that is usually private RV resorts
If reserved sites are not occupied by, let’s say 8pm without calling, they should be forfeited and can be re sold. If a site is cancelled in less than let’s say 3 days there is no refund UNLESS the park can resell the site and then they get 50% refund. This would give incentive to call and cancel even same day. The lost 50% is kept by the park for administrative cost. Everyone wins!!
This should be adopted by all state, national and public parks.
Reservations cannot pick site period ! If you do not call when you are going to be late, your reservation will go to ” first come first serve people waiting for a site” for one night only. If there are empty sites in the campground you will be charged.
Require text confirmation up until day of. If nobody arrives or texts confirmation by noon day-of, campsite can be rebooked on first come first serve basis
To solve this go to first come only sites?
Maybe on the campground site the people who are canceling can let someone who wants there site take it over. Like at work if I want the day off I find someone to take my shift.
Offer other incentives equal to the full amount of the reservation to people with potential cancellations.
First come, first served. You get there early enough, you have a site. Sometimes campers get there later in the day and still get an available site. I think the parks would still be full and make money.
I agree, Sonya.
So if you have traveled all day to get here and find all the first come first sites are full, you get to camp alongside the road in hopes something opens up in the morning.
Doesn’t sound like such a great plan for me to my family.
How about issuing a refund or partial refund IF the site is re-rented out? Win-win
If those who have reserved the campsite do not show by a certain time, re-rent the site, and keep both fees. The original renter is no worse off, and the campground improves its financials. If the original renter is multi-day and simply can’t make it the first day then he just calls the campsite and explains it’ll be there the second day or the third day and the campsite can still rent out the site for the first day etc. This is totally fair as the first renter kept the campsite out of the system and unavailable to other campers and by not getting a refund it is that action that he is paying for.
I think that if a reserved site goes unused for 24 hours from check in with no contact from the person who made the reservation as to why or if they still intend to use the site, it should be made available to other campers with the original person being notified that the site is no longer available for them. A refund if the site is booked by someone else would be nice but knowing their lack of communication could lose them the site would also be an incentive.
I’ve been a long time camper of specific campground for many many years at one point in time it was first come first serve of which I feel is a much better system but over the years things have modern and now you can reserve up to a year in advance of which I find not fair then there is the question of sites being reserved and there’s no show I think what they should do if there is a no-show after a full day of the first day of the reservation then they should forfeit the site and allow other campers to have it and I also feel as though reserving in a year in advance is a bit much in a bit unfair
I have four kids. My oldest is five and my youngest is 3 months. If I want to camp in Florida for a week, should I just drive the 24 yours, towing my camper and hope I get a spot? Reservations make sense. Not canceling a site the moment you know you can’t use it is just another proof of our fallen nature.
How about an option to check when reserving or edit at a later time that states you are willing to give up reservation for a full refund if someone else is willing to reserve same campsite. Even if in the last minute. The new reservee is notified their reservation is pending the first reservee to relinquish the campsite after being notified by text or email. Might not be perfect but gives others a chance.
Sounds good
Simple .. Eliminate the nuisance reservation system altogether…
I have made reservations and paid for them fully at the time. Rarely do we cancel however it has happened due to the health of a family member, a breakdown, and once for weather. All three times we forfeited most if not all of the money$$. We understand that it’s a business that makes money however the one that bothers me the most is the one we canceled because of weather, a tropical storm was forecasted, the campground is along a stream with only one way in and out. The storm did dump enough of water that it impacted some of the campground, they lost the power feed to the entire camp and closed the road for a few days. About a week after the storm passed I called again about a refund and they would not refund me one red cent their reason, my campsite was not flooded ! Our friends were there and were stuck for almost 4 days with out power swimming in the mud.
Personally I think it should be run like a hotel/motel check in/out. You have a full day to check in and a full day to check out. You have a 4 day cancel period with a half refund,after the 4th day no refunds. If there’s a no show after the first day the next person in line gets the campsite. Posting the rules in the reservation area and campsite area. Once a person makes a reservation for a campsite, the website sends a notice to the person on checking in/out and refund rules via email. Sending a check in notice to the camper 2days ahead of time too.
It would a be a full time job for.the campsite host’s or website register.
Get rid of the partial refunds. 8 days out your fully refunded. It eliminates the Good weather campers that cancel and block others that would love the site regardless of the weather. Another idea is if a site is rented and no one shows, emails or calls within 3 days (maybe less) the park can re rent that site. It’s being considerate and would allow more families to enjoy the outdoors.
I think the 24-hour rule is golden. If the party hasn’t checked in or contacted the campground within 24 hours of their check-in, then mark the site available for reservations or drive-in.
Agreed!
We go to a campground that has half the park first come first serve. Always get a spot if you are there before 10:00.
Having a way to post your reserved site at a discounted rate for people that need to cancel would help. Our tow vehicle caught fire on the way to a COE campground last year. Lost the vehicle and kayaks, no refund.
First come, first serve. You must be present to make the reservation.
That won’t work. We have reservations 6 to 8 months in advance and cannot count on a FCFS. If we really want to stay some place like that, we have to have a plan B, like a boondocking site. There are only a few places I would even consider dealing with FCFS, like Apgar in Glacier National Park.
We, too have experienced the problem of reserving the last available (and frequently most undesireable) campsite only to see on our arrival that 1/3 of the campground is empty! Our grandsons came up with a solution and created campflare.com wherein you can sign up for free and get notified immediately when a cancellation comes up in the campground of your choice. Right now the campgrounds are in National Parks and Forests and California State Parks. We have used it and it works!
I will check out your grand son’s website. Thanks
We travel all over the USA and Canada and find the problem of open camp sites most often in the United States. One thing that seems to work in Canada is that if you don’t show by 11AM the day after you are to arrive you do not get a refund and your site becomes first come first serve. (These are Provincial Parks.)
11 am is way too early! Mist campgrounds don’t let you even checkin until noon or later. Or do you mean 11am the day after your arrival day?
Another great idea!
If you “no show” you get zilch $refund. If you cancel so somebody else can use the site you are “paying it forward”. Please show you care. That is the solution.
What a great attitude! Wouldn’t life be so much better if we all were simply kind and considerate!
The refund policy would basically state that even if you cancel up to the last minute, the park may refund in full if another camper pays for your site in full. The further out you cancel, the likelihood someone else will pick up the same site. However, refund is not made until new payment is received. I wouldn’t even mind losing 10% or one day’s cost to cover the campgrounds overhead.
Was reading the comments and I agree if they are a no show then the site should go on a list to be reserved again the RVer wins and the campground doubles their money to be used to update other sites such as adding electric and water
How do you know they are a no show. They might come later in the evening. Thats the issue. Unless someone calls them.
By giving them a time limit to check in. Not there by check in the next day, you lose your whole reservation.
I love to Camp. I am a Tent Camper. It makes No sense to set up your Tent in the Rain or take it down in the Rain. You have to call the forecast right or you’re stuck. It should be allowed for Tent Campers to at least reschedule if Rain is Forecast.
I disagree because the campsite will likely not be used in the rain. Perhaps as one person suggested, if someone else “moves in” you could get a half refund, but that would require another employee to keep track of people who come and go without notification and all the paperwork to give someone a refund of any kind.
Illinois state parks have this three day policy where people cannot reserve campsite or even see if any spaces or vacant during that two day period. For example, if I wanted to go camping tomorrow or the next day, I would have to risk there being an open campsite. COE campgrounds have same day reservations and I seldom see empty sites on weekends
Ask the reserve to rent to some one else
How about if you cancel too close and someone else wants the spot and pays full price, you get half back. The campground then makes 1 1/2x.
A no-show with no call should be released for use/reservation by others the following day by check-out time. Hotels do this all the time. I notice that NH state parks state this is their policy, but in reality, they don’t implement it and release the unbooked sites to be reservable.
I think the problem with releasing no show sites is this takes people with time ($$$$$) to manage it.
No refunds. You can’t expect people to run a business & not show up taking a loss. Only health related with Dr statement should be allowed. Rude otherwise. You need to give months of notice if long term visit. Otherwise you will not get deposit back.
Offer bonus money for last minute cancelations. It doesn’t have to be much, say $50. Something is better than nothing and during the busy season not only does the park keep the last minute cancelation money but they rent the site again.
Those needing to cancel should.be able to move the reservation without penalty at least once. That way campers can still come at another time and site can be released to other campers. This will allow someone to use the empty site and the campground will increase their revenue. It’s not rocket science.
I think no shows should be barred from making reservations for a certain amount of time. No excuse for not taking the time to cancel so someone else can use the site.
Why not allow a wait list for fully reserved days and if someone cancels and there is someone else waiting to get in, they can take the spot. Refund the 1st person and take immediate payment from the 2d. If no one is waitliated for the day, your refund policy remains the same as it is now. The “wait list” could include people who show up same day needing a site. Anyone who hasn’t shown yet for their reservation or called say they are a late arrival gets a call asking if they want to forfeit their site for a refund of the days that other person wants to stay.
Charging a hefty fee for no shows would solve that problem in a hurry.
They have to utilize a phone number and call the person when they are a no show. Then rent it out again after calling.
Provide a method to resale the campsite like ticketmaster.
Give the canceling campers credit for another reservation (within 6 months)
Fully admit I did not read all the posts since there are a ton, so this may have been already suggested. I play in athletic events where the policy is that you get a refund only if someone fills your slot. If applied to camping, with the complaints of people not being able to get a spot, there is a high chance of getting the spot filled, but the campground is not out money if it isn’t filled. Motivates people to cancel earlier as well. Could do a small “processing fee” of the cancelling camper to help cover any administrative costs.
I think there needs to be a rule that if you don’t call or show up on the 1st day of your reservation within 24hrs then someone else should be able to rent or take your space. Or charge a fee when reserving that is refunded when you arrive on time or 1st day.
We have extensively camped all over the country and have first-hand witnessed this condition. Kudos to both the Yosemite and Yellowstone campgrounds which have implemented different processes to recycle empty and no-show campsites. They could set an example for other campground policies.
Can you expand as to what Yellowstone does?
I’ve been to state parks where some of the sites with the best views are empty. The reservation system showed the sites reserved. I agree there are people who make reservations incase they “might” go camping.
Perhaps not only losing the cost of camping, if you fail to cancel, but also a fine for keeping others from using that space?
Perhaps there is only a loss of one days camping for a “few” occurrences,
0R, if you make a reservation and need to cancel… it will be X number of weeks in advance to get a full refund, and your refund is dependent upon the site being reserved again. As you get closer to the reserved date the refund decreases and/or administrative fees or fines increase.
Perhaps a way to track people who “regularly” and selfishly abuse the system and deny them reservation privileges for a period of time?
There, unfortunately, needs to be some kind of incentive for inconsiderate people to do the right thing.
Other reservation type programs have started to penilize no shows. so it is stated that if your a no show too many times that you will be banned from the reservation system.
Offer an if then refund policy. If someone else wants to rent the spot then give a partial refund. The site could be released back into inventory allowing last minute campers to grab it. The park would get the full rental cost plus a partial payment from the camper that canceled late.
They should offer a FULL refund if & only IF that site gets rented out for the time period the refund is requested.
I say if a site isn’t filled the first night of a reservation & the person who has it reserved doesn’t call to say they’ll be there late….let it be rented.
I feel that reservations made but that are no shows should be forfeited and made available .
Maybe the campground can have a policy of the person who reserves the campground doesn’t show up within 24 hours of checkin day they can give the reserved camp site to another family and still keep the deposit
If the campers cancel at any time and the site is then reserved by another then a full refund should be given to the person who cancelled. I do this with my Air BnB rental. It’s only fair. If site is not taken by another then the refund defaults to original policy in place.
If a camper doesn’t arrive within 24 hrs. of their reservation or do not call to verify late arrival, they should forfeit the site, so others could rent it. That way the campground will still be making money and keeping the other campers happy.
Charge them full price period.
Make it costly to be a mamby pamby no show.
Also not allow them to reserve again for 2 years.
If you don’t hit them in the pocket and future it’s just going to continue.
New generation of campers RVers are [bleeped].
They should set a ” no later than time” for checking in. If they haven’t communicated their delay then it should be opened to others at that time.
But the site has been paid for whether there is an occupant there or not. Maybe I reserved the site and left it vacant for the wildlife to be able to use it. It’s noone’s business what I do with it.
🤦♀️
But it hurts others who are looking for a site but is occupied but no humans on site. Guess the rig is enjoying the WILDLIFE!
When reserved camper cancels, a full or applicable amount of refund will ONLY be given when those on the Wait List reserves that same spot! I did this applicable refund policy with boat slips at my resort in the 90s. It’s not hard.
That’s what I was thinking too. The amount of the refund should be based on the site being reserved by someone else for those days or partial reservations.
The problem isn’t last minute cancellation, it’s reserving for two weeks to get that certain site on popular dates and than later canceling the part you never intended to use. People who do this habitually should lose their reservation privileges for a year.
No, the reservation system should be different.
I think campsites should have to be occupied the first night by the reserver and if not the campsite should be opened for first come.
I have often have thought this might be a good idea. No call, no show, no more reservation.
I often camp and the reservations have a 2 night minimum. Often we are only available for one of the 2 nights meaning that our reserved site will be empty one of the nights. I’m not canceling because we are going to use it. I just do not have the option to reserve only a single night.
I think the person who doesn’t call to cancel should be charged double.
I think you’re not thinking clearly.
Charge extra for no shows. We were at a national forest campground with a high percentage of no shows and I’ll bet if they had to pay an extra fee they would either show up or cancel
Charge extra???? It’s paid for whether it’s occupied or not. If I choose to pay for the site and not show up is my business. We did this last summer. We couldn’t make the whole weekend so we drove up on Saturday and had a picnic at the site.
Pay half non refundable up front Pay the balance of your reservation on arrival and non refundable
Create a waiting list.
Maybe you shouldn’t do online reservations at all and just make it a park that it’s first come first serve
I have yet to hear a good reason from the hosts why this continues. I do know when I make a reservation there are rules and I check a box to confirm I understand.
Unfortunately, if the camp site is paid the camp ground has that money in their pocket. We have to motivate them as well.
Dollars is the motivation for all these situations.
I have experienced other venues that refund your payment if they are able to rebook your reservation. A campground that has my money also has my contact info and credit card info. No reason why they can’t rebook the site and refund my money.”We can’t” usually means “we don’t want to.”
I agree. If you cancel online and someone reserves the site, you should get your money back.
24 hour window for no show then the camp site is open on first come basis
We just returned from a stay at Colorado State Parks (Mancos State Park near Durango). If you don’t show up within 24 hours they cancel your reservation, keep your money, and open the spot for another group. That seems reasonable to me.
That sounds like a great plan
Free cancellation if site gets rented. The possibility of a refund would be enough to encourage many to cancel
I like this idea.
If they are 24 hours late and no call give to someone who shows up. The park can double dip and collect another fee. I have pulled into parks and a spot has been reserved for a week and day 3 they would still not give it to me. Sometimes if it is late I pull in and sleep anyway.
My suggestion would be if you have a booked site and you are not going to arrive on your check -in date you need to call and let the campground know what day you will arrive or the campground will open the campsite up the next day. If people can’t be courteous and allow someone else the chance then they should forfeit all of their money and lose the campsite. It’s a matter of respect for fellow campers .
I just encountered this problem recently. We went with a first come first serve campsite. There were other sites open but reserved and never saw the reserved campgrounds used in the 4 days we were camped. I believe if they people don’t show up after 24hrs, it should be offered to someone else. The campground wins that way and collects more fees, makes people happy. A win, win.
People must be made to act responsibly these days or they will continue to take advantage of you. I think the majority of people will understand because the majority of people are angry.. I liked all the comments. Bottom line, no shows should be charged if not canceled in the time stated. Happy camping everyone !!
In my area RV park, individual will book the best lake side spot for 2 days every weekend from May to September and it’s a rich persons game, whether they use it or not every weekend they don’t cancel, the park gets paid so cash flow is the same
The easiest way to discourage bad behavior is to charge a penalty. Require booking by credit card. Charge a $150 fee if the site is unoccupied by 8pm on the first day of the reservation, and another $150 fee if the site is still unoccupied by noon on the second day of the reservation with the remainder of the reservation cancelled with no refund. Any night the campsite is unoccupied by 10pm without prior special notification, the remainder of the reservation is cancelled.
I just camped in a 40-site campground that was “sold out.” I showed up on a gamble, and was told there was ONE available spot. For the three days I was there, I saw a total of 5 other campers. But every site had a “reserved” sign up. This craziness has to stop.
Some of the problem lies in the reservation system itself. I have had to reserve more days than I needed because the campsite has a two day minimum. Yes, I will not be there on one of the days, but I haven’t got any single day options. So, I have to accept it as the cost of camping at certain campgrounds. Yes, I’m double booked at two different campgrounds and it’s still less expensive than the nearby alternatives.
Obviously there are times when you can’t arrive or decide to not use your reserved campsite. For whatever reason refund or not, it is only common courtesy to other campers that are traveling or in need of a site or to support the camp staff and park to let them know you can’t make it. Pay it forward, be respectful and responsible. Maybe there could be a last minute cancellation refund if someone is able to use your reserved space. Let’s work this out together, so we can all enjoy our fabulous parks.
I agree with you!
You are so right about that!
I agree Kris. It seems like civility and compassion for others are in short supply these days. What ever happened to the golden rule? This is not the world I grew up in and I liked that one a whole lot better.
I call BS, as a full timer I have never stayed in a full camp ground. Now every campground I have stayed at has said they are full. Example 4 the of July weekend campground reported they were sold out. There were over 40 sites that were empty and still are empty.
I don’t buy the excuse said by these campgrounds as a business owner myself I have never seen a business that is ran so poorly.
Charge a large deposit that is refunded upon arrival.
Building on this idea… that is refunded upon *departure* on the last day of the reservation after showing that you signed into the site on the first day of the reservation by Xpm. 🙂
Get rid of the reservation sites, or have way fewer of them. We have been so frustrated with this system since It was implemented.
Another idea would be to charge them an extra day if they are no shows. You have their credit card.
Treat it like a hotel..Guest have 24 hours prior to arrival to cancel if they do not cancel they are charged for the first night you release the campsite ..you will have to set a time like hotels by midnight of the the night of arrival if there is no cancellation and no contact from guest that room is released to be rented by someone else
Consider giving full refunds to people up to the last minute , if and only if, someone rebooks the reservation or takes the site on a 1st come 1st serve basis.
When they are cancelled even at the last minute, they should open those up for other campers to be able to book a last minute vacation or for those of us waiting for certain dates to open up…this still being able to partially refund the people that canceled their reservations
Stop the generous refunds and people will be and care more when they book.
Go back to first come, first served like years before.
I’ve got an idea do away with reservations. It should be first come first serve
I agree 👍 that has been the best and most fair for everyone.
This problem has been going on at FL State Parks for years. I say
No show in 24 hrs you’ve lost your money and your site. People are gambling with reserving one site, hoping a better one at the beach opens up. FL residents can’t even stay in their own state parks because of ‘snowbirds’ playing this game.
We camped at one for 5 nights, our friends could not get a site. We sat there and looked at 90% of the sites unused. Grr.
I’ve worked in one of the busiest campgrounds in Ontario for years. They moved to 100% reservable best decision ever! And in policy it states if camper does not arrive by a certain time the day after they were expected to arrive it went into no show and we resold the site. They were aware of this when they reserved it. They could reserve 5 months in advance and if they cancelled withing the month almost a full refund was given minus the reservation fee that is non refundable. The closer canceling got to arrival date the higher % of refundable was deducted. And really so what if site sits empty that’s been paid for? Campground has made its money from it.
Have a waiting list. If someone cancels and there is someone to take their spot then they can get a full refund.
Why bother canceling? I reserved a state campsite for $14 and canceled it two weeks out. I got $5 back and they took $9 and put the site back on so someone else could reserve it and they get more money. There is no incentive to cancel.
I agree
I had 3 spots in fla reserved.
Shop had an accident with my van. I called few days prior all 3 sites to cancel. They could have given me credit for future use .
This was not my fault.
You get 5 back for doing the right thing yet not fair.
I even tried to give my site away and gate was closed to get in by 5 which I was unaware.
Give people future credit could help solve the problems.
Example two day rental: Make check in no later than noon…you don’t show it gets rented by me on day to day basis..you show up next day, I have to move on..this would work with on-site camp hosts. They get double the money for same site. Sounds like online reservations need more people available more hours maybe by phone. No refunds inside of 24 hours.
Simple. Let campers know they will receive a (partial) refund for any unused nights if you can re-sell the space. This provides an incentive to cancel unused reservations, even if
it is done last-minute.
Otherwise, from a camper’s perspective, why should they bother prioritizing a cancellation they already stand to lose 100% of so you can make double revenue on that site?! Think about it.
I guess I don’t understand the problem. If I paid to reserve a campsite for next weekend but something comes up and I can’t make it. I just won’t go and the campground keeps my money. I paid for the right to sleep on the ground on their property.
Where is the issue?
If you’re saying it’s not fair for the guy who pulls up, sees 20 open spots and is told there is no space for him. He should have made a reservation.
The same thing happens with hotels, restaurants, movie theaters, air travel, music festivals, train travel, deep sea fishing trips, concerts, plays, fund raising dinners and tons of more events.
The issue is the park has no idea you’re not coming if you don’t show up and don’t notify. Then the space you reserved sits empty when people who would like to reserve are told the park is full and there are no spaces available. Your spot remains empty for the duration of your reservation – they do not give the space away. So, be courteous to other campers and let the campground know if you aren’t going to show up.
But as she said. She paid for the site and the park still received the revenue. The park isn’t out anything. They just can’t get double payment for the same site.
I personally cancel my site if I can’t make ut.
If we could get reservations, there wouldn’t be an issue.
But people keep locking up campgrounds with unused reservations, thinking “where is the issue.”
I tried to make reservations to a campground but it was sold out within 2 minutes of it opening up for booking. I drove by to take a chance, and was told there was one single crappy site available. I considered myself lucky. But during my three days there, out of the 40 sites, all but about 5 sat empty. Beautiful sites overlooking the lake and stream, empty.
The local tackle shop said their business is down – there are fewer overnight visitors because people can’t get into sites. The convenience store shut down their hot food service because dining is way down – despite all the sites being booked 100% for the season.
National Parks, National Forests – these are national treasurs being preserved for us to enjoy, not something people should selfishly book and then carelessly waste, locking out those unable to get reservations.
At Hotels if you don’t show up by a certain time they will sell your room. So No it is not the same. And not everyone can sit at home and make reservations.
Carl S. In the Willamette National Forest you have to reserve our nearly a year in advance. If I could reserve one to two weeks in advance, I would not see this as a problem. This isn’t about someone who just showed up without reservations, this is about not being able to make a reservation 2 week to 9 months in advance because some people scoop up the reservations and then don’t show, because they don’t see a problem with their selfishness! “I paid for it a year ago, no one else can have my spot it’s reserved, I don’t see a problem!” While a family with a weekend to enjoy a camping trip has no place to camp.
If no show or no contact the site should become available. Also if cancelled and there will be no refund, offer a percent off their next visit.
The problem can easily be fixed by fining no shows, no cancellations.
Unless notification is made for a late arrival, many Minnesota campgrounds are check-in by 10 pm, or the entire reservation is canceled (without refund) and made available to others. Seems fair, and it works.
This is a common problem, ongoing for years. The Recreation.gov site doesn’t work. It’s not efficient. We’ve been fulltimers for 10 years. We stopped going to state parks because of the problem. The system needs a total overhaul.
If whoever reserves the site is not on the site by 3:00 the next afternoon, they lose the site and someone else can use it.
Don’t refund any money, reason why I know people who have rented sites with no intent on staying there just because they need a back up if they don’t get the site they want at another campground. Then they don’t cancel there back up so it sits empty.
I have seen that happen also. It is so inconsistent of others
People should be able to give the reservations away on a site and get their money iF someone takes over their reservations…..
I think by far the biggest factor is the gap between the regular site occupancy limit and group sites – I’ve overheard conversations with camp hosts or rangers where small groups just over the occupancy or vehicle or tent limit reserved two sites, and only used one, because they’d mistakenly believed the group sites were only for organized/nonprofit/above a certain size groups.
Also, people still being advised to stay home if they test positive for COVID-19, and on top of that air travel is a mess, so there are probably still unusually high numbers of people who simply can’t go.
And I totally agree that the process for getting a refund is ridiculous – for example, recreation.gov makes it sound like you can get a full refund in case of natural disaster, but when Yellowstone flooded days before my scheduled trip, it was extremely difficult to get a full refund bc recreation.gov has a high bar for “natural disaster.”
Make it like a hotel – No show by midnight then you forfeit your entire reservation. I parked my RV at a no show site at 1am a few months ago and paid for my spot first thing in the morn. The park lady was mad but I told her I could have just left before the office opened but I came by and paid so they received double payment for one site since the person who reserved it didn’t cancel. She said that the person reserved for three days and they never showed up. The parks are losing a ton of revenue for not implementing a no show policy.
If the party that reserved does not show up in first 24 hours of reservation, make the space available
I agree
Offer the reservation holder a “credit” for timely cancellation. The credit could be non-monetary, something like: priority access in the future; choice of prime sites at a standard site rate; one off-season day free for every three peak days cancelled
They could easily give better refunds when they could frequently sell the site again. There needs to be more of a penalty for not canceling. And there needs to be more frequent communication to camp hosts, who may be off the grid, about the cancellations.
For instance we were at a campground over Memorial Day weekend where 72% of the reserved sites sat empty while the camp host turned people away at the gate. He got cancellation updates only twice a week. It was only about 15 miles to the nearest town where he could have received communication, especially on a holiday weekend.
If a site is cancelled and re-booked they could offer a better refund for the cancellation.
I don’t understand why they don’t re-book a site regardless of the fees not being refunded.
Nowadays people like myself, are camping in more open clean sites. We want to camp without the bugs and ants. And heated pools, nice capstone with ice cream and breakfast and lunch sandwiches, mini golf and entertainment. Camping has become more expensive so we want to enjoy our stays or we cancel and reserve another campground
What i would do is, after someone cancels -even on the same day- and the spot gets rented by someone else, they would automatically receive a refund.
I am in agreement with this also. We had a family emergency, ON THE WAY, to our camping spot. We had to turn around and head back. We canceled online, via my phone, while traveling to meet family at the hospital. We lost our camp fees for the weekend because of no fault of our own. It was a booked holiday week. I would have loved to have “sold” our days to someone else if I were to be reimbursed.
There is no excuse for not calling and letting the campground know what to expect. If you are having car trouble but will get there eventually that’s one thing but I say if you don’t show or call by 10pm you lose and no refund and rent it out!
Best idea is if a person has a cancelation provide them a credit to be applied to there next stay if nothing else you don’t have to give a refund and most of all loose a good customer keeping in mind if you as the campground operator irritate1 person you may just irritate other potential campers as word of mouth can be good but more often bad.
Do away with reservations!
First come first serve its that simple!
I suggest do the no-show and cancelation like hotels….. it you do not show by a certain time, sell the site to the next customer and if do not cancel several days prior you lose your refund. You need to make it so people will be more responsible and considerate.
This is easy. If you dont show up within 24 hours of check-in, you lose your site. No refund.
I’m thinking if the cancel 3 days in advance they get a full refund. If they don’t call to cancel before they are due to show. Keep the site open if their not their by 10 am the next day rent it out. If they show up at sorry you didn’t take the time to call they loose their money and you rent it out to someone else. So your making money and not losing money. People that really wants to camp get a site so their happy. Then give the person that reserved it and no show no call get two warnings if they do it a third time they can never reserve from that park.
There should be no refund for no shows… period
I would suggest that when making or accepting a reservation the campground reservationist collect the entire camping fees. This way the campground will not lose any money for a no show that did not cancel in the specified amount of time.
Many camp grounds have a no show policy that the don’t enforce. Why? If a camper doesn’t show up by midnight, they are likely not showing up. As far as empty reserved campsites, why not allow another camper to occupy that space after a Midnight no-show? Perhaps the new camper could pay 1/2 price. This would up your revenue and make campers who couldn’t reserve a space happy. We went camping last weekend in a reserved spot at Waldo Lake Islet Campground, more than 3/4 of the reserved spots were empty the full weekend. It wasn’t the warmest weekend, but we had a blast! It is extremely frustrating to reserve a camping spot nearly a year ahead of time, because if we don’t, they’re all taken. It is very sad to see so many empty spots in a campground when I know families who would love to go camping, but they didn’t know what their schedule would be a year in advance. How is it fair to all campers to save a reserved spot the whole weekend?
How about a three strikes rule. If you don’t cancel and don’t show up, three times, you are blocked from making reservations for the rest of the year.
I am one who has been a no show but I also don’t ask for a refund. I figure if I can’t get a refund there’s no reason to cancel because I already paid for it and maybe something will come up and I can still make it one of the nights, plus I’m the one losing and not the state. The state profits from it because less labor paid out and money put in
I think the park should have a policy that if your site is reserved and there’s a no show for 2 days, it’s then available for another camper. If people know ahead of time that it’s policy then they have chosen the result.
For campground on public land……
Double the price of reserved sites compared to Fcfs site and add refundable deposit equal to site cost. You want site for guaranteed day, pay more. Less reservations equal more Fcfs campsite which better serve the people who actually show up. Also makes it more expensive from people who reserve the sites next to theirs just so they don’t have neighbors (vast majority of empty reserved sites in my opinion)
Campgrounds add a few emergency overflow sites. Just a parking spot for people who have reservations but were no call no shows and their sites were rebooked.
24hr no call no show and your site gets put in a pool of semi open site. If campgrounds fill up your site will be rebooked on a day to day basis. If you show up you will get your original sites after next checkout time for the duration of your reservation.
If you show up with no reservations and campground is full you can get a “no show” site.
How about getting rid of reservations and making it first come first served. That would eliminate the empty site problem
If you don’t show up within 24 hours of your check in time and you don’t call, the site is made available for someone else to rent. The park could hold a couple of “admin” sites for unforeseen circumstances and put a late comer in one of them. We do this at a federal park I’ve worked at and it works well 98% of the time.
Require full payment when making reservation. Full refund up to 7 days prior 6-1 days before then one night charge to cancel. No show then site is available to anyone and only 50% refund. After 2 no shows without cancellation then permanently banned from reservation system
If you only allow reservations to be made 1 month in advance instead of up to a year it would eliminate half of the no shows. Or go strictly with first come – first serve.
That would some help I think even 60 days would be better
Spot on!! Pardon the pun! Absolutely right reservations that were made five six seven eight nine months ago plans change and then people just blow it off because they couldn’t be bothered.
There needs to be a statement when the reservation is made if you do not show up 24 hours after your reservation starts, you will forfeit your reservation without a refund unless you notify the office, you will be late. We had last minute RV issues that we had to repair one time and showed up late. We called the State park office to let them know we would be 2 days late.
Don’t charge a cancelation fee. You already have to pay a reservation fee. Enforce the no show policy. If you miss the first day with no call then you loose the reservation. Have a more efficient system that clears the sites faster so the sites show availability quicker.
Go back to the “first come” campground program which worked very well for over 20 years.
Open up and cancel reserved spots to first come use spaces if the space is not occupied or confined by text or phone by 4 PM on the first day of the reservation.
I like the confirmation idea
I really don’t think that is much of an option. I RV 20+ days a year and in many cases make my reservation 2-3 weeks in advance. I really don’t think I need to call and say. I will be there today. I already have a reservation.
The doctor or dentist have other people scheduled for CANCELLATIONS AND NO SHOWS!
Campsites should do try that!
I agree with Melidy. Eliminate the reservations. So many locals need spaces too and can’t always take time off to camp at a certain time. Campgrounds today are so full of tourists who reserve early while planning a vacation and when they don’t show up it is still reserved and others cannot occupy the sites.
That wouldn’t work for people traveling some distance to camp especially with a limited amount of time and needing a particular type of site. Especially with the cost of gas etc.
Go to First come first serve…..plain and simple.
Sorry full first come first serve… campgrounds typical don’t generate the same revenue if it was to offer reservations. people like to know they have a spot.
Would it be possible to open the campsites to drop bus if the reserve sites are not used after 48 hours?
How about you get a full refund (less a booking fee) if when you cancel the site is picked up by another camper.
Full refund (less handling) if the space rents
Agreed
Why not refund the folks that do take the time to cancel, if the site can be rented with no loss to the park? Subtract a fee similar to a restocking fee.
No show on first night = Forfeit remainder of reservation, and the spot gets open to first come first served. Or even a penalty fee for not showing up???? Kind of like not showing up for an appointment. Got to think of some incentive to show up, or to make sure people reserve with certainty🤔
You’re RIGHT you get charged for NO SHOW @ some PHYSICAL REHABILITATION LOCATIONS & MOST DOCTORS & DENTIST. Charge a fee for NO SHOWS & CANCELLATIONS!
Agreed. Don’t. Show night one you’re out. I roll in on my bike to Zion and multiple sites are empty for multiple days and I can’t stay because they might show up. It’s wrong and it’s after 5pm the day after the campers were supposed to arrive.
No. Just no. If a campsite wasn’t allowed to sit empty the better refund system the campground would actually be able to have. Free up sites after a no show. Contracts … cancellation 30 before your reservation, full refund. Cancelation within 24 hrs of your reservation 50%, no show without communication 12 hrs after first day of reservation, your spot is considered available and subject to be rented. Period. We all know that things happen, but there’s a point where you’re just taking advantage. If one of the above doesn’t suit your camping style, maybe you should consider a campground you can book on the fly.
There is of course a perfect logical solution. Timeshares use the same solution. If you are a member and cancel a reservation after the no refund date, you may still receive a refund if the unit re-rents. This philosophy encourages members who won’t be using a unit to provide a cancellation notice.
Charge full amount at check in. If you cancel with short notice no refund unless your site is picked up by someone else. Then 75% refund. This motivated some to inform of cancelations but also not book recklessly. Software could easily automate this
Only make half the spots reservable, the other half first come
We are having to do that very thing in August. We are having to reserve 2 nights on a weekend when we only are staying one so the 2nd night is going to be empty as we move on to the next campground. This is both in State Park campgrounds and private. Minimum 2 night stay.
Never refund a cancellation made within 4 days of their scheduled arrival date. If they don’t contact or show within 24 hours of their arrival date, rent to someone else (make that part of the written policy with no exceptions) and still no refunds. That’s that!
How funny we both said 24hrs to show.
Agreed
Cancel the reservation and if it is booked then a refund should be processed since otherwise it is like double dipping. I agree there should not be a cancellation charge.
Like airlines must check in 24hr or 48hr in advance. If you do not then you lose the reservation and then the camp site will go first come first serve the actual day. This way the night is not lost to no shows. No refund period. I was really upset at mt rainier with seeing sites booked for weeks and 1/3 of camp sites were empty.
Adding if you still no show you lose $50 deposit and camp fees if not check in by 10pm. Can cancel up to 2 weeks.
Maybe if you reserve a site you have to pay for it up front. No refund if you don’t show up. Limit the days anyone can book a camp site. Go automated bookings to reserve with all the money up front with no refund. You then will have firm renters, firm income flow and no phone line and staff issues. Sign of the times. Steve
Yes, yes, yes 👏
Suggest if reserved sites are not occupied by following day of expected arrival, the site reservation becomes void and the site can be reserved on first come first serve basis through camp host
That is how it works on rec.gov. But that still doesn’t fix the problem with the site sitting empty for a night which doesn’t help mom and dad who have been on the road with 3 kids and mom is crying and dad is frustrated and it’s 9pm and you have 10 empty reservation sites that will sit empty just because someone chooses to not call and cancel.😡
If they weren’t prepaid, that would seem fair. However, if you’ve pre-paid for a week’s reservation, but an emergency at work delayed the start of travel, or insert “life happens” here, it seems wildly unfair to lose your spot AND your money AND your vacation.
A better option would be a full-refund if the site is rebooked, having an existing wait-list to fill late cancellations (especially in the case of parks frequented by locals), as suggested by others.
If I understand correctly, the campsites have already been paid for in full. It’s very rare that a campground (state or private) doesn’t collect the full amount of the site fee upfront.
Maybe the no-show campers are waiting for better weather, or their travel plans were pushed back a day or so. But if they’ve paid in full for the site, it can not be rented to someone else.
Maybe the reservation system can notify the camper that it’s recorded they haven’t checked in and to ask if they still want the reservation or can it be resold (with the original camper receiving a partial refund).
Even better, an option on the reservation system to take a waiting list. Then if someone wants to cancel, the reservation system will notify the next name on the wait list of a new availability.
My husband and I are camp hosts at a state park. Yes, this is unfortunate but we don’t know they won’t show sometime during that stay that is booked…ie..delayed travel. What we do after 24 hrs is call the number listed on file to see if they plan on coming and we let out Park Superintendent know one way or the other on whether we can rent it out. It usually works out and everyone is happy. Camp hosts are mostly volunteers. We don’t have any control on who gets what until you show up. You want to change sites, you ask the camp host if there is anything open. Reservations are done in a huge advance online. There are two sides to this story!
Well that is somewhat true we do get paid upfront. Now I’ll tell you the reality is Recreation.gov does a dispersal of funds every 2 weeks so they collect what reservations come in and tally that amount up and then they take all the cancellations that come in and subtract that amount from the reservations. The problem is that over the last 4 weeks we are now almost 10 thousand dollars in the hole that we have to pay back to Recreation.gov because there cancellation policy is to lenient.
You can cancel the day of and get a refund
You can be a No show and get a refund
You can leave early and get a refund
You can stay for your whole reservation and you might get a refund because there employees (rec.gov) aren’t competent.
So guess it is how can I make things easier for campers.
That sounds really sketchy on their part, given that I had an extremely hard time getting refunds for my recreation.gov reservations right after Yellowstone flooded, even though their site says full refunds are allowed in case of a natural disaster – first they said they couldn’t refund me and wouldn’t even advise me not to try to come bc they hadn’t been properly notified of a disaster or closures, then when they had been notified they said it was too close to the check-in date, and eventually they let me make refund requests to be forwarded to the agencies managing the campgrounds for approval.
So if it’s that hard to get refunds as a camper, but they’re telling you that they’re issuing more refunds than they collected in fees for a certain time frame… that doesn’t add up. I wonder if someone’s messing around with bots to get refunds, or doing some kind of chargeback scheme, or there’s just an incompetent employee who’s been training the new hires wrong?
Personally, if a govt contractor told me “we’ve refunded more payments than we collected” I’d be looking for a fraud and waste hotline number…
THIS is fair, friendly, and encourages happy camping. I love this suggestion! Life happens. Things don’t have to be complicated or cause hardship. Great idea. Happy camping!
There needs to be a consequence for making and canceling a reservation too soon before arrival. If refunds are given if the space is re-rented, what is the incentive for RV’ers not to load up on reservations on speculation they might be there? If ppl do not show up after 24 hrs, their reservation should be canceled and allowed to rent first come first served . If party cancels Long in advance a full refund should be made. Anything less than 1 week should have no refund. Ppl are taking advantage of the reservation system making it difficult to find a place to camp.
I dont think there is anything wrong with the refund policy. People are just greedy. They need a dose of reality. My family and I went camping at a state park. The site we were staying in was not bad, but not great. It had a bad slope. The space was a pull through and really nice and flat. it was reserved for the weekend. And it was empty the whole time we were there. It angers me to see all these spaces reserved and empty. It’s hard to get into the camp grounds when they all show full. It is not fair to everyone as a whole. To be petty and hold the space empty, because you can’t get a refund.
I meant the space across from us was empty the whole weekend.
In all reality, if a site is reserved and paid for, what difference does it make if there is an RV on it or not? Does your post have anything to do with the site you had compared to the one across from you? You couldn’t get a better spot? When making plans timing is everything. If we are lucky enough to get a spot at our destination, ahead of someone else, than that’s good. If not or for the last minute folks we get what we get. Keep point here is to enjoy your trip and stop worrying about things that are out of your control. If a site around you is empty, enjoy not having neighbors and their possible screaming kids and barking dogs.
Key point is people can’t GET a reservation, so how can they “enjoy their trip”? People on FB have bragged about being able to jump in when the reservations open up for booking, book 4 or 5 trips that overlap on dates, and then either cancel at the last minute or just not bother since the rates are low enough for them to walk away. Make it hurt… lock them out of the reservation system for 6 months.
Are you serious, what difference does it make? The empty site represents someone who had to stay home, or had to go 50 miles away to a parking-lot style and more expensive park, while some selfish soul wasted their reservation. And yes, when it’s a choice site, it ‘s even more pathetic.
If the campground can rent the site to someone else at last minute, refund the portion for the nights the new camper stays. Ex: If John wants the spot for 2 nights, and it’s been reserved by Jane for 5 nights ….refund Jane for the 2 nights that John has now paid for.
Change the arrival rules. If John doesn’t show up within 24hrs of arrival date, his space will be opened up and he’ll only be refunded for the days someone else uses that site.
Sounds like a lot of paperwork and fact checking to give a refund to someone who can’t take the time to cancel a reservation in a timely manner.
Bull shit, there are many ways to improve this system but why do that? The money lost is no big deal to a Gov. employee. Reserve America is a joke. Most likely it is owned by a politician or some insider.
It’s pretty easy to see who Reserve America is owned by with a quick search. And they’re asking for help with solutions. But why read the article, offer one of your “so many” solutions, or even think critically for a few sec when you’ve been programmed to feel slighted at every turn?
Charge for RESERVED RV’s and campsites when they make the reservations if they CANCEL or NO SHOW past campground usually 10pm. NO REFUNDS WITHOUT A WRITTEN WRECK REPORT OR MEDICAL HOSPITAL REPORT. Campsites can be used to rent for new comers. Actually renting campsites on tentative cancellations so parks DO NOT LOSE $$$$$$ MONEY!
GOOD LUCK 😃.
Here are some ideas: Do away with reservations. Make it first come first served. Or, allow reservations for a site not a particular site. Or disallow refunds two weeks prior. Or penalize no shows with a penalty equal to reservation site cost and no refund (except in case of last minute illness documented by a doctor). Possibly offer insurance purchase option for no shows similar to what cruise liners do for advance reservations. In other words get tough to make it fair for everyone and keep Park operations equitable and financially sustainable.😊
Reading the article I had never considered the lost revenue for last minute cancellations. I suggest Pro rated, tiered refunds minus fees if you cancel
3 months before 100%
2 months before 75%
30 days or less 50%
Or have a credit system where you get it all held as credit minus fees if you cancel at least two weeks before, to spend on future bookings. My state has a $10 change fee but it must be at the same campground.
I don’t always know when I want to rebook at the same campground. Sometimes I change my mind and don’t want to go there at all.
Let people know that if they cancel, and someone else ends up booking the site, they will get a refund/partial refund. That incentivizes people to find a replacement, or at the very least, formally cancel so their site can be reserved by someone else. That way the park doesn’t lose $ and people who cancel have a chance at getting $ back. But they won’t if they don’t cancel their reservation and then don’t show. I would think it would be a win-win.
Put frequent no-shows in the penalty box and don’t let them make any more reservations for a while.
Two no-shows, no-calls in a 60 day period and locked out of the reservation system for 6 months. Use the name and tag number so they can’t game the system.
That was my thought. Airlines have no fly lists, campgrounds or reservation systems can have ‘No camp lists.’ Can be used for folks that have a history of being disruptive and/or No-Shows. With computers and the Internet today, anything is possible!
Seriously? All the people who work there? Most of the time it’s a camp host who does it all. You list a group of people working and usually just one camp site doing it all. 25-100 sites at $25-$100 a night and not enough to make money? Find that hard to believe. If people chose to cancel allow 50% or some incentive. Allow people who arrive an empty spot after 5pm without late arrival notice. All those people working can make this happen.
I just stayed 8 days at a beautiful campground in Alaska and saw about 4 different folks camp in the spot next to mine that had been “reserved” for the whole week. The reserved folks just didn’t show up, so the first night someone rolls in about 10 pm, sees nobody there, and just pays for the night and puts their ticket on top.
Each new person who showed up throughout the week paid, camped and left. Double the money for the campground and a nice stay for the “last second” folks who just drove by hoping for a spot.
I don’t know a single campground that here that would let the spot sit unoccupied for a week. No way. They are going to resell that spot just like an airline will sell your seat if you don’t show.
Your post highlights a rather new problem – campsite scalpers. They have computer programs that scour the web, grabbing popular reservations as soon as they open up and then resell them through the internet. An especially bad problem in California where campgrounds are finding themselves “sold out” but have numerous no-shows. I am not sure what the best solutions are to this but making reservations non-transferable (and checking IDs), limiting reservations to a fraction of the sites and/or requiring an earlier check in could help. My wife and I just finished about 2 weeks in California. We had reservations a few months in advance and got the “last spot” at three of places we stayed (others were already full) and yet there were several empty but reserved no-show sites at all the California campgrounds we stayed at. A tech guy we talked to explain a program he had written to grab sites at places including Yosemite. If he couldn’t use them, he’d offer to friends or let them die unused.
As some music festivals or concerts have been doing, if a ticket/camp site holder can no longer use the sites, they can relist the site and it shows up as a resale/available. Same price as they paid, i.e., no scalping. People can then go in and purchase that site off them and pay the fee. Once transferred, original buyer gets refunded. If no one buys the resale, the original buyer is stuck with bill. Win win win.
Agreed!!
I like that idea
It’s not a win win in my book. Because someone who truly wanted to camp at that campground or maybe even that particular site couldn’t so they either already settled for somewhere else or didn’t go at all.
This article is about no shows and getting people to use the empty sites. Your comment doesn’t address the issue at hand.
That is what I was going to suggest too. Why not create the ability to do this in the online reservation system such as with a new status of reserved but available for rent/resale. The original reservation stands until resold which would trigger a refund to the individual of the original reservation. This way the Campground is guaranteed to keep the revenue tied to the reservation. Like you said everyone benefits. Win win!
No need to reinvent the wheel people. Hotels already do this. If you reserve a room and you don’t call and you don’t show up and check in within 24 hours then the room goes up for grabs and you don’t get a refund. It’s simple and it’s fair.
Those rules are already in place at recreation.gov and other campground reservation web sites.
Learn from airbnb… make electronic options fit the needs of the users.. allow them to cancel and let others know they won’t be needing it as soon as they know. Offer incentives not to cancel if needed…or to notify..
The comments below are so much better and more specific than what I am saying, but giving a credit if you cancel seems like it would be a good incentive for people to call and cancel.
I 1000% appreciate all that parks personnel do to keep up these beautiful places we love to visit. But I do agree, there are so many ways to fix this. We book so many things online now airBNB, flights, hotels, cars, appointments, reservations, travel insurance etc.. looking at how others manage these is a good way to find ideas that will work for our parks too.
I worked for Utah State Parks & Rec for three years at a state park that had seven campgrounds and around 700,000 guests a year. The truth if the matter is that the people making the rules care a lot more about the bottom line than about people being inconvenienced by full campgrounds. As park staff we kept cancellation lists and tried our best to accommodate everyone. But the policy makers couldn’t care less if camp sites are empty as long as they’re paid for. We were not allowed to let anyone take reserved suites no matter what. The other side of this is that sometimes people showed up late for these sites, sometimes in the middle of the night, sometimes a day or even two days later. We would’ve had a major issue if we would’ve let someone else take them.
If they don’t show up on the first day, and don’t contact, then their reservation is forfeit. I was at a local campsite this past week, and I showed up and got a site that was only available that day. But there was another nearby site that we were able to live to for another two days after that. The original site the people never showed up, so we wouldn’t have had to move if they had canceled or had their site forfeited for no show. Hotels do it. You don’t show il for your reservation the first night, they cancel it and book someone else in there.
Try an experiment for 1 or 2 years and give campers a full refund of cancellation, maybe the out come would be a surprise rebooking or drop in campers to make up the loss
Pre-pandemic we would camp regionally twice a month, usually Wed-Friday. Hike, read, recharge. Post pandemic, can’t find a site. Along with paid for but unoccupied sites, the new “work anywhere crowd”, and cheaper than apartment crowd. Sold the RV. Good timing I guess, gas prices and all.
I wish the park could have a waiting list. So a person who is not going to show could release their site and if someone on the waiting list took it, the original camper gets a partial refund.
Most of these suggestions do not solve the unused campsite issue. A big problem is single night reservations that are abandoned, so site is empty. Campers don’t seem to worry about losing the one night cost, or else they had to make the reservation so long ago that the date no longer works, or maybe they forgot? But hosts cannot give site away because campers may show up very late.
Possible solution would be requiring phone or email check-in by 5pm or whenever hosts go off duty. If camper does not arrive by 5 or communicate a later arrival time, spot is released. Then empty spaces could be released for first comer or given to a waiting list that surely would develop.
Right now there is a penalty on reservations.gov for cancellations within 48 hrs. What a disincentive! Instead there should be a partial credit toward next reservation. Refunds should continue to be given for early cancellations, of course. Rebookings of sites are nearly guaranteed these days!
Look, i hate it when I can’t find a spot last minute. But they paid for it, so they use it whichever way they want, whether thats actually using it or not. Some people plan ahead and those that don’t can’t complain about it. You snooze you lose. Life gets in the way sometimes. They might use a partial of the reservation but who’s to say they can’t when they’ve already paid for it? Sometimes you might arrive later than planned, but canceling their whole reservation for “no show” seems too tought- camping is for the freedom we feel in nature, no? The good side is the campground is less crowded. It’s too crowded these days anyway. I do like the give partial credit for future visit idea IF they cancel, though…
They should have a cancellation button that says your refund is conditional on someone taking the reservation. Someone reserves the site, the money goes back to your account. Nobody reserves it and you lose your money.
The problem with Recreation.gov is there is no real penalty for not showing up. If you have a 7 day reservation you can be a no show and still get a refunded 6 of your 7 days. As a host I have to hold that site for 24 hours and then I can rent it of course at 24 hours and 30 minutes you show up to find out that someone is on your site and of course I’m a jerk for renting out your site that you paid for. Of course you didn’t read the need to know information on your reservation and that’s my fault. Or I believe your going to show up because you have a 7 day reservation so at this point I just cost my boss to lose more money cause I was hoping you would show up. So the cancellation policy only benefits Recreation.gov because if your campground has internet and you can report that the camper was a no show on the recreation.gov they can penalize you 10 dollars that goes in there pockets not the concessionaire who is trying to deal with no shows, day of cancellations and again they collect
Here is my suggestion. Have a spot on State Park websites where customers can sell off their reservations to other campers who may be interested.
Continued from previous post.
another 10 dollars. 50 percent of one day reservations don’t show up. They just made the reservation just incase they couldn’t find a spot in the park.
Most campground on Recreation.gov have a 3 or 4 day window where if someone cancels a 7 day reservation it doesn’t go back on as an available site it becomes a FF serve site for 3 to 4 days which we try to fill.
So I believe there should be a stricter cancellation policy. If it doesn’t hurt there wallet it will never change.
Like a hotel, set a time. No one checks in, site unoccupied, anyone can take it and no refund. Sorry about the weather but a hotel wouldn’t care. People need to be more thoughtful about their responsibility to cancel.
Many camp sites have eliminated the first come sites. Making them all get reserved months in advance. I decide a week before and nearly impossible to find a site. I would like to use our public lands but cant when many sites stay vacant. There needs to be a rule if you don’t show for the first night with out notifying host with a good excuse your entire time is up for grabs. Also no show x 2 no reservations allowed to any park. Do the curtiosy and cancel even if you don’t get a refund.
I had this problem last month. Had a block of time open up for a vacation open up at short nitice and decided to jump on it. Tried to find sites at state parks and national parks across 3 states and could find almost none. Entirely eliminated one state from my itinerary because they had no openings and no first come first serve slots. At others, noted that more than a third of reserved sites were vacant the entire time. No bad weather, no excuse. People are buying up slots just so they have an option and it is cheap.
Do away with reservations entirely except for a handful of sites!! Make it a policy that you have to show or otherwise indicate you are en route by 4 pm or the site goes to anyone.
Points based penalty system. Simply put, multiple offenses of no-shows get banned from the online reservation system.
Collect a ETA from the campers. If they don’t show up or call ahead 2hours from that time mark the campsite as available. Possibly offer a discount for especially bad weather days to fill spots.
Let people rent the sites but sign a waiver to agree to move or leave if someone shows up.
Change the system. Have part of the campground available for reservations. The other half available for first come first serve.
Dr Greg McKeever
PhD Quantim physics/Rocket sciences
Phi beta kappa- central oregon community college.
Enlisting the help of any number of social media to act as a communication board for campers who can at least post their open campsite. Have the camp ground provide a campsite code for their reservation time slot or QR code and have it linked to a communication board where campers can communicate for stay via the info linked in a matching campsite code for last minute campers to communicate with reserved party.
Maybe if site is standing at a reserved Date and if they don’t show or cancel with in the 24 hours a ranger can be consiencous of this and put the camp site as a higher cost for the campers that are there and want it bad enough.
i really feel like camping is voluntary. most folks camp to get away from life – tv, phones, work, people! i don’t need ‘staff’ to help me camp i don’t want help camping lol. i find it frustrating to reserve a camping spot online. i had no idea if we’d even like the spot we got. i rather drive around and pick a spot on site and then go pay for it. i can see what’s available and make a choice and stay as long as i pay/want. first of all camping used to be free. unless you have an rv and require amenities, most tent campers don’t really need anything. it’s a broken greedy system. but they complain it’s not enough. why is camping a monetized recreation anyway. reservations are the whole problem. go back to first come first serve and if you pay you can stay as long as you want. easy. follow the camp rules. ‘staff’ is not required for camping ffs. if you wake up at 11 & decide you want to stay another night you should be able to have that choice rather than have to vacate for a no-show.
Do what some hotels do. If you don’t show up by a given time or arrange for late arrival, your reservation is cancelled
Charge the full amount if not cancelled two weeks or more out.
I’m looking into purchasing a site just as many do a boat slip. Yes there are fees involved so what about camp condo type action as an RV Owner of a camp/slip, allowing office personnel to rent out un used days, it could be a win possibly? I wouldn’t own the park just the slip/site with of course maintenance fees and such. Just a thought. Get all the parks you can on board and a camp owner could trade slips in different locations through a ownerslip site across the USA? Something along those lines. And be a great supporter of parks in the continental US. A network if you will. With a pricing index based on campers needs, say tents vs RVs and technology growing every day most of this can be done through a computer system with travelers type insurance for inclement weather ect. Let’s open up American camping without boundaries or limitations to one location like private park ownership have.
Go back to the original first come first served ideal . Then all campsites are full.. I hate the reservation method.. Real campers will go and stay in ALL kinds of weather…
Perhaps a courtesy in the reservation from the guest ……if you know that you are not going to come for whatever the reason please and kindly forfeit your sure so that it may be enjoyed by someone else …….if they prepay seasonally for a particular week like a time share perhaps they can themselves , rent it out and you get a percentage of rental fee and the new guest info for your records
Kiosk style camping with digital check in and out via smart phone app? Allowing current employees to deal less with reservations yet allowing at the site campers to access reserved spots where reservations are made yet not used? Put responsibility on checking in on campers less courteous for whatever the reasons. Stipulations in accordance with rules of acknowledgment of check In policy up front. Just like in an airport, the plane is not going to wait for you. With at site campers taking unused reserved sites, auto refunds for those would be activated immediately.
Seems simple, In policy state no shows at some point lose their spot with no refund. By submitting payment camper is agreeing to terms. There isn’t any reason for having empty sites with the demand so high.
Seems to me that the simple solution is a first come first served approach. With no refunds available under any circumstances. If you go to Disney and it starts to pours buckets of water from the sky you go home. You don’t get your money back. Camping is not out of the world expensive.
You lose your reservation if you are a no show. You must call or update on the web site when you will be arriving in order for your reservation not to be cancelled.
Give the option to move reservation to a later available date. If not moved the money is lost. No show by required check in. ( You snooze you lose) Be responsible for your sites will being.
Private/public reservation websites can take your reservation and money pretty quick when you hit the “make reservation” button, how hard would it be to put a “cancel reservation” button on it as well. The auto processing of a credit card can be reversed just as easily.
Wether RV or tent camping, you run into the same issue. Multiple options are possible:
1. You are put on a NO RESERVATION LIST if you do not cancel. This would stop it from happening more than once.
2. If you are not checked in by 11 a.m. on the day following your reservation start, site becomes available immediately.
3. A STEEP NO CANCELATION fee.
These are the first 3 I can think of. Many places are hard to reserve, but have a specific amount of spaces reserved for “local walk-ins”. We have a state campground that we go to but have to go 2 days early and set up and pay for days we don’t need just to get a site for the weekend.
Many of the suggestions are insightful and practical in terms of a framework for improvement: 1) look to similar reservation systems for other services (“benchmarking”) to assess what may work without reinventing the wheel; 2) consider mandatory confirmation of arrival (late or on time) or sacrifice reservation – personal responsibility; 3) accept limit on personal preference of arguably overly generous refund policy to improve process for benefit of all; 4) simplify; 5) adjust to human and technology limits; 6) value avoidance of waste of limited resource (camp spot) over covering risk of changed circumstances that any camper faces when deciding to no-show for whatever reason whether trivial or legitimate; 7) bar transfer or assignment of reservation by camper or party reserving. Happy Trails!
Campgrounds do need to do a better job of making sites available immediately when there is a cancellation. If a no show, make site available after 24 hrs. Effective implementation of cancellation lists also would help. Not difficult to do with software available.
How about the same as airlines you have to check in and confirm if not your site goes back up for grabs.
Two ideas 1. If reserved and don’t show up by 8 that night sell the campsite. That is if no communication has been made. 2. Keep campground 30% walk in. This all reservations only is awful we’ve been doing this for over 40 years and since Covid restrictions camping is awful. It should be reversed
no refund needed. provide a credit minus a cancellation fee to be used within a year. everyone wins. we just spent 5 days in a campground with so many empty sites yet i couldnt be close to my brother and his family despite them being surrounded by two empty sites. this solution provides incentive to cancel and still get something out of it. it is worth a shot
There are carrots and there are sticks. If a reservation goes unused, the camper could face limitations on their next booking. This way they have an incentive to let the park know if they are not going to make it. As it stands now, they lose nothing by being silent.
If party hasn’t shown up by the next morning reservation is null and void. Site goes to first come. Obviously no refund.
Pretty simple if they can’t afford to lose the revenue introduce a penalty for not showing up. When the reservation is made take a $50.00 reservation fee that is refunded on arrival or cancellation.
That would make sure people would show up or cancel.
Great idea. Let’s be honest, people don’t cancel because they don’t care. Make it $100 and the deadline is 7 days. Weather is not an option for cancelling, that’s part of camping.
What does the campground lose if I don’t show up? I don’t get a refund.
Implement a no occupancy = reservation release policy. The camp staff should have the ability to free up space if the reservation holder does not occupy the space within 24 hours of the commencement date of the reservation. People have no consideration of others, so restrictions are necessary. I travel full time. Reserved but empty spaces are a constant aggrevation. Thank you.
Have some online reservations available but keep the other half of camp sites available for first come. It’s unfortunate everything is digital and it should not be that way. The worse part is a camp host doesn’t even know what’s going on since they don’t have access to the government website. So if there is a cancelation that day camp host are not aware of it. Making that information accessible would help too. This way another camper could camp in the canceled site.
We are full-time for the past 8 years. If a camper does not show up on the day of arrival (delays do happen) and the camper does not contact the park by checkout time the next morning, the site should be released and put on the online system as available, or available as a will-call site. No refunds for no-shows. This would free up sites for local campers and allow for additional campground cash flow. Perhaps send a text to the no-show cell number on the reservation (required to put on reservation) advising them that “due to no-show, the entire reservation cancelled”.
Great solution!
My thoughts exactly! I like the text idea!
Agree no show no call by check in time next day site goes back on available listing. No refund policy will cut down on no shows.
Not true. I have reserved and paid for the site. I can do what I want with the site. I agree with the no refund up to a certain time frame, so, if it can be reserved again and I am a no show, then I should get some of that as a refund. Still a win win for the campground. They have all my money plus half of the new renter.
Hummmm Me I’m a wee bit(a really wee bit) confused…..rent something and the renter does not show? Who would’nt…..free money in my book. Why would ANYONE let alone The Gobernment change that? Empty sites mean less work and when would any Gobernment worker want more “work” Not.
In terms of all those “work anywhere” Newbies….just be patient as when the glitz wears off and it is now coming on year two and employers lower the boom, in office work or your job is g.o.n.e. will arrive. Travelers will be a history blip as hospitals in particular are having in house staff walking given stupid salary inequities. No worries a year or two out we’ll be in pre-covid status. Added bonus will be all those RV’s squeaky nice which the finance companies repossessed.
I read the comments below.The points I liked best were…
Provide refund or partial refund if the site is re-rented prior to arrival date.
For no shows, allow parks to re-rent after 24 hours without any refund.
Require confirmation of reservation 24 hours in advance.
Waiting list is a good idea to contact other campers
I generally need to plan camping well in advance, so requiring photo ID image at time of the reservation and at checkin might reduce the bulk buyers who are trying to scalp tickets.
Perhaps automatically canceling the remainder of a multi-day reservation if the campsite is not occupied the first night? I saw at a USFS campsite I stayed at in Colorado, one of the rules was the campsite must be used & occupied the first night of reservations. That should cut down on some open, unused “reserved” campsites. The entire reservation would be canceled and opened back up to those who are looking for sites.
Cancellations go into a cancellation file. It would available to campers to look for last minute sites. If it gets picked up, you get your money back. If you buy from the pot, there are no refunds. The sooner you cancel the better chance your site will be picked up. A % per day could again be given back if site is not picked up from the pot.
It could also work the other way. Cancelled desirable sites could come with an added 10% to offset for extra staff work.
Like the man says, “Ya pays your money, ya takes your chances.”
We have a two week cancellation requirement. Do not cancel for rain ,
Hurricanes are an exception. No call no shows are put on a non acceptable list and can not reserve with us again. A client with a unforseen circumstance can cancel with a refund upon our discretion.
A Great Smokies whole campground was reserved then cancelled a day before so the camper had the campground all to himself for a week that according to Park personnel
Res.gov should adopt a two week cancellation policy to stop the abuse.
Other solutions may be needed but that would be a good start.
Offer that if a cancelation is made during the “no full refund period” but at least 48 hours in advance of the reservation start date, a full refund (less any previously advised of reservation fees) may be available if the site is reserved by another camper for any time frame that includes the first night of the original reservation.
Its ridiculoua. I tried to rent for the month again at a local apot i just apent montha at and now they only rent weekly and its 3 times as much as before but i watched all 3 spots sit vacant for weeks
If I call and cancel then if the park can rent the site we should be able to get our refund but, only if they can sell the site.
Suggestion: If the camper does not show by the check in time the next day of their reservation, allow another camper to go in. So you are allowing the camper the first day to be able to arrive and then until check in time the next day of their reservation. I know we had issues traveling before and it was the next day before we arrived at our campsite. We of course called to notify them as well.
Difficult situation but the responsibility is with the campers. If you are a no show, no refund period. If cancelled a week out we should be refunded but inside 7 days nothing
Unfortunately for last minute changes, this won’t satisfy some , but the way igg the is now is no good either
We tend to book state campgrounds. If a reservation could be modified, as in moved to a different date and/or site within the same campground, I believe that would help. This modification should be available online; not only via a call to an agent. No shows should be monitored, after the first no show of the season, then the remaining reservations for that season should be released for that season within that park. The state park has a very lenient cancellation policy, charging a per night processing fee. The other thing that should change is the ability to end the stay and release the site. Perhaps a 50% refund would help in that case.
We went to Slide Lake, out side of Jackson Hole, and the camp sites were all reserved by a private out fitter. No one using them.
I think if you don’t call the campground by 6 o’clock on your arrival date you should forfeit the entire stay. You then can open it up to anyone.
Charge no-shows double the rate they would pay had they showed up. The park has their card info. Make it financially painful enough and even these inconsiderates will change their behavior. Or add a caveat to the website that no-shows that do not call or notify of a cancellation will be banned from any subsequent reservations. Increase the fees for campsites. Adopt a policy that after one night without notification for why the no-show, the site is available for first-come-first-serve campers. I can’t believe the fed gov’t can’t resolve this. I doubt the Hyatt or Marriott have a big problem with no-shows. We used to camp a lot. These no-show A-holes are ruining it for legit ourdoor enthusiasts.
I agree. It’s time to get tough with these folks.
If a site is cancelled and then able to be rebooked, be generous with a refund. If site is not filled, then no refund. Seems simple. And if a no show on the first night of reservation, then put site back up as available.
That sounds like a good idea.
+1
Late cancellations (might) be refunded depending on whether the released site is resold. People would then be incentivised to try as they’d have nothing to lose and everything to (potentially) gain.
Over time, people would start to look for great spots that open last minute as well, facilitating spontaneous weekends away.
I would love to see a page that specifically shows recently released sites available in the next few days
If you don’t show up on the day a phone call is required to save reservation
This is sensible. I work at campground and when the site is paid for in advance we can’t rent it out if there is a no-show. We call them but there’s always a chance they will show up.
Agreed… Then a no show campsite can be re-rented generating more income for the campground and the site does not go unused.
Penalty for no show. Just like an important Dr appt. of course there are situations unavoidable. If you will not cancel like a responsible person you will be charged a no show fee. Far too many people desperate to enjoy nature and cannot because of this problem of reserved but unused space.
People just have to understand they cannot cancel within a week and get full refund. But don’t cancel and you will pay penalty
All campsites should go back to the pay when you get there drop box. Most of the good campgrounds in Montana are reserved for the whole summer right when you’re able to reserve them and go unused.
I agree
sounds like they need a better system. if people reserve a site but don’t show up the site should become available. Reserve America states that if you aren’t checked in by a certain time, your site and $ are forfeit. once that happens people coming to the campground would be able to rent the site but it might not show on the website right away.
the campground we go to usually has one person in the check in booth and that person is usually a teen or college student and there is never a problem.
The answer is simple. Post the site in away that the current reservation would receive their full reservation refund if a new camper reserved the whole current reservation. List the site, reserve with stipulation. Example, camper current reservation has 4 days. New camper would need to do the full 4 days or more if available.
The initial reservation would incur a service fee but would get their refund which would give an incentive to do the release of their reservation.
I have been reserved out this year for a lot of campgrounds. Maybe don’t allow people to reserve so far in advance. One week at a time. I see that campsites say they are full and when you get a reservation and arrive and there a lot of camping sites because of last minute cancels. People get online and reserve months in advance and then other campers have to watch the site everyday to get a spot. One week in advance, no refund will help everyone. Perhaps have a waiting list so if someone cancels call list for those who are waiting. Also first come first serve campsites are always full.
No reservations or reservations for half the campground the rest FF. Easy
Double the reservation fee. Get half back when you show up. And keep the present cancelation policy but with the doubled res fee. Problem solved .
How about when you cancel a reservation, if the spot is then sold to another camper, the original canceling party receives a refund for the days the site was used. Ex: 5 days scheduled, you cancel, the campground resells the site for 3 days, you are refunded for 3 days so you are only out 2 days, but then if someone else comes in for 3 days as well following, you are refunded the additional 2 days. So, as difficult as it is to get spots, I’m sure people would appreciate this option. We are constantly online looking for spots that have opened up in what was otherwise a full park.
First of all is the park saying they lose money is bull because they can re-rent the site to someone else, which allows them to double up the amount they make on the site. Hotels do it every single day. How can you fix the problem? Simply state in the reservation section if you do not check in by a certain time you will lose your site, just like hotels do it, that forces the camper to contact the park. Or you could have a dedicated line for calling no shows, whichever is easier. Either way there are ways around these that doesn’t require a lot of time or effort.
If you want to cancel your campsite, but you haven’t cancelled in enough time to get a full refund, the site should be willing to work with you. If they’re able to rebook the site to another person, you should receive your money back or at least the days the site was rebooked. Nothing more frustrating then seeing a site empty but no one can use it
I know of some “full” State Parks that would tell campers to come back at “office” closing time, and if there were any reserved but no-show sites, they’d book you in “ under the table”, meaning the Park kept your money to boister their underfunded needs. One park bought washers & dryers for a laundry service ( and the laundry fees paid off the appliances within one season).
Smart managers who saw a way to both help campers needing a site for a night and help alleive sorely lacking maintenance budgets.
If a site is empty after the cutoff time ( say, a half hour before the gate closes), why not allow someone else to use it?
Agree. RV park treasurer here. If no-show/no contact within a reasonable time or if canceled after the refund period, then if the site is rebooked, give a 75% refund, deducting 25% for extra admin costs to rebook. That 25% is undoubtedly more than actual cost, so the park makes a little money, the original booking people recoup 75%, and the new renters get a site.
If you make a Reservation and not show, you should be penalized, banned from Reservations System for 2 yrs.
Or, the parks dept should have an automated phone call a few days before Reservation Date to verify their arrival on said date.
A yes or no response and a warning that a no show will be penalized from future use.
I feel if you call before your date they should refund your money. Things happen in life. It’s bad enough that a person has to cancel a reservation because of a emergency situation more less lose their money because of misshapen’s I always liked the first come process personally,that way no one loses their money it’s a win, win situation, But again I love the online reservations
Perhaps all campgrounds should institute an automatic cancellation policy. If the spot is not occupied by the reserved date, the site automatically opens back up for the entire time it is reserved. If there is an emergency or reason the camper is late, etc., they must notify the campground. No show + no notification = no site. 9/10 times, the campground can rebook, thus doubling their money for the site. This leaves extra money for responsible campers to receive refunds for appropriately cancelling their sites. Additionally, this opens up sites for the people that really want to camp!
Personally, I don’t expect a full refund after a certain time and am fine with the campground keeping a “down payment” when I cancel. It takes time and money to handle the reservations and the campground should be compensated.
Yep – I completely agree.
1. Give a discount for a future stay.
2. If not checked in by a certain time or late check in arranged then reservation is cancelled.
3. Charge a fee for non-cancelled sites.
Offer a refund if the site is rented by someone else, or a partial cause it’s still work. Also I have seen several across the country that if you are not on site by check out time the day following the reservation they cancel yours and offer it back up with no refund.
I believe if a person cancels and their site gets rented then the campground can refund a greater portion of the original renters fee. Of course there should be a small charge say $25 for this inconvenience.
People should be contacted next day, if not coming post site back on website, maybe call or email a week in advance and remind or get a response if still planning to come
With gas prices the way they are it’s too risky to just show up and run the possibility of nothing being available
Only make 30% of total sites available for Reservation. All other sites are First Come availability. No Show Penalty’s also.
I remember what it was like camping when I was a kid. We always had one specific campground we went to for two weeks every summer. We never stayed at state parks we always stayed at primitive US Forest Service campgrounds. There were never reservations they were always first come first serve. This article is proof to me the reservation system is bad. It’s made it too easy for “potential” campers that lock up sites with a reservation and maybe they aren’t even sure they want to go and if they change their minds they figure it’s easy to cancel, meanwhile others then have to figure out an alternative. No one packs up and makes the drive if they don’t intend to camp so take away the reservation system and let it be what it’ll be. I understand that a lot of people like the idea of a sure thing but camping is supposed to be an adventure so take a risk and get outdoors!
I don’t necessarily agree with the first come first serve either. I have seen plenty of times where people drag their trailers out three or four days before the desired weekend, lock them up and leave them sitting there until the weekend. And then come back out with the family. We all know people do this, and yes the campground gets paid for all those days. But it kind of defeats the purpose of there being a first come first serve.
I have 3 suggestions, which can be used individually or using all 3. 1. If camper is a no show or no cancel on date of reservation, charge an admin fee of 100.00 In addition to camping fees. 2. have a reservation deposit of 200.00 which will be refunded at end of reservation if camper checks in. 3. If reservation is canceled at least 48 hrs in advance refund full amount of camping fees.
All of your suggestions are wrong. I already paid for the site. Why are you punishing me for not showing. I didn’t get a refund. What I chose to do with the site is up to me, I use it or I don’t.
Greg, I’m not sure if you’re getting the point here. If you are someone who camps often, and it’s not unusual for you to no show… And you are right, it’s your spot you paid for it. The campground doesn’t suffer because they have your money. I think the point here is, It’s really not about the money. It’s about the fact that there are thousands of families out there who do not know when they’re going to be able to camp due to work or family obligations or issues. They cannot book so far in advance, maybe the opportunity comes up on Wednesday or Thursday and they look for campsite availability but everything is gone. Then the weekend arrives, and their neighbors tell them that the campground they were trying to book at, was half empty. Because people with your attitude think it’s okay and can afford to simply reserve a bunch of different sites at a bunch of different times, without a concern for whether or not you actually intend on going. So now, you’re somewhat selfish behavior and bit of arrogant ownership attitude, has caused another family to not be able to camp for the weekend. There are lots of suggestions and lots of conversations to be had on how to avoid this, but so far the comments that I’ve seen from you on this thread are simply, I reserved it. It’s mine. It’s not yours Greg, it’s the campgrounds and it’s the general publics to share in. So why not use this opportunity to brainstorm ideas on how more people can go camping and more campgrounds can be enjoyed by those who wish to do so.
No. If you don’t show for your hotel room, you lose your deposit and they rent out the room. Other people deserve to use the camping space (hotel room) if you are not.
Horrible attitude Greg. It’s people like you…..fill in the blanks.
Someone explain to me why this is bad for the campground. If I make a reservation and pay for it, the campground has there money. If I don’t show, they still have my money. Bottom line, I reserved and paid for it, therefore I can do what I want.
I don’t think it’s necessarily bad for the campground. The frustration comes from those wanting to camp and not being able to do so when spots are empty. Yes, those who jump on the reservation for the site have a right to that spot. The issue arises when they don’t show.
Not necessarily bad for the campground but it doesn’t allow others to use the site for a last minute camping opportunity.
I don’t believe this is bad for the campground, they have their money. However, I find it selfish to just leave a spot empty if you are not going to camp. If you cancel then someone else who wants to camp at that time frame has the opportunity.
I believe that if reservations were only allowed to be made a week or at most two weeks out without a refund people would begin to take reserving campsites more serious. Maybe even implementing a certain checkin time to keep your site reserved.
Some of the private campsites I stay at have a certain time to check in or at least call if you’re late to keep your spot. If not then they release your spot on a first come first serve basis.
I could see this being a solution.
A 3rd party cottage business could manage an incentive program that allows those who have reservations to receive money back from the people wanting the space they are not going to occupy due to whatever reasons. The park still gets their revenue, the no shows get reimbursed by the people wanting to camp in their absence.
Too complicated who pays for the “cottage” service?
The policy at our local campgrounds is that if campers don’t show up the first day, the site can be rented to someone else the next day. This generates more income for the campground. It sucks that the site is open for that prime first day, but seems to me to be about as fair as it can get.
I really like this idea. BUT it should go back into the reservation system immediately.
We to are fed up with the current reservation go back to the old way. Ben to many parks unstaffed building closed n0t even a hostess
Simple. If you reserve a site for more than one day and don’t show up the first day, you forfeit the site and money, unless other arrangements are made with the campground on that first day. We’ve had breakdowns happen on the way to a campground and had our arrival pushed back a day or two.
Why should I forfeit the site? I already paid for it.
To be used, not sit empty. It’s a commodity – like a hotel room. If you don’t show for your hotel reservation, it doesn’t just sit empty.
I agree
If you paid,and don’t care about the money. At least let the campsite go back up for reservation. Let someone else enjoy the outdoors. I think the campgrounds should have the ability to (rebook) the campsite and more revenue is made$$$
Win win
I totally agree! It should also get put back into the reservation system immediately. Please have respect for fellow campers who are looking for a site. I am camping now and was shocked to see how many premium waterfront sites were unoccupied! I actually looked at the reservation dates and some of them had been empty for at least three days. Very frustrating because you can’t take the site since technically it’s reserved.
Charge them twice for no shows. If they don’t cancel & don’t show at all, charge them a 100% surcharge. If that fails to deter had actors, keep raising the surcharge.
This is pretty spot on. But instead have a refundable $100 deposit on top of the reservation fee, that the camp host just records they did show up and deposit is refunded in a few days afterwards… like a security deposit if people don’t pack out what they packed in at their site, the deposit is kept and charged as a site cleaning fee, so the deposit should be high, maybe even $200 per site?
I know people that want the big holidays so they make reservations early in the month and then they keep canceling and adding dates until it is close to the date of the big weekend
Don’t give refunds !!!!!
People today have no consideration to anyone but themselves. If they lost money they may tend to stick to the reservation
Sounds good in theory, but given that to get a site you need to reserve 6 months out… A lot can change in 6 months.
It’s not always people playing the system.
1. No show or no communication within 24 hrs of check-in then site opens for others to reserve
2. Narrow window for making reservations or charge an admin fee for reservations made 3+ months out with the admin fee returned when reservation is used.
If a campsite sits empty for more than 24 hours, reserved or not, it should go to a first come first serve status. That way the camp won’t loose any money,people can still get their refunds, and sites aren’t sitting empty.
I’ve worked in the National Forest for 10 years and discovered that some campers reserved several sites so they don’t have someone camping next to them, then they cancel a few days ahead before someone else can reserve it. I don’t have a solution maybe you do.
Thank you for the info.
Is there a reason the national forest sites don’t become available online when campers cancel? Because I’ve done a lot of travel this summer that has mostly been last-minute bookings of sites that were cancelled, to the point that I don’t even try to look for reservations between a couple months and a couple weeks in advance – I just start checking recreation.gov at 5-6 AM every morning a few days before I’m leaving until I find a site in a campground I want that I can book. But now that I think of it, that’s only been NPS and BLM sites that I’ve found that way, never USFS sites.
If campers dont show up within 12 hrs of check in time or contact them that they are coming they give the site to someone else. Something that states they have a no show policy.
If the Rez system is showing a late cancellation (within 24 hours of the arrival date), and if the campground host has access to the Rez system, they could remove the reservation tag from the site, so it is now a “first come” site.
If the reserved site is canceled longer than 24 hours in advance, that site is returned to a “reservable” status in the system software.
Regarding the individual making the Rez, in order to get a refund, they must cancel by 6 pm on the day of arrival, or contact the campground before 6 if they determine they will be a “late arrival”. If there is no contact, the campground host can pull the tags at any “no show” sites and it would become a “first come” site and no refund to the person from the original reservation. If that person that didn’t contact the campground that they would be arriving late shows up after all, and finds their site now occupied, they would have the option of taking another available, unreserved site with a new rez.
If Someone is a no-show no call after a few hours their site should become available. Not sure if it’s a first come first serve model would work in this situation the campground would want to avoid lineups to grab a no-show site.
I’ve seen campground’s institute lists at 9am showing which sites are expecting arrivals for that day. If someone no-showed the night before, that spot is then available up to the next reserved date by another party.
There should be no automatic refunds if no-show has not cancelled at least 48 hours in advance I.e reserved 7 days but not cancel until 2nd day they lose first four days and be refunded for only 3. We should be held responsible monetarily for inaction.
Our local state park used to do 1st come 1st serve. Now with rsvp if someone doesn’t show up they don’t update the website. The website is the only way to get a site. The front gate doesn’t control this. At 26 bucks a night you can’t get a site. Yet the campground is half empty. Bring back 1st come 1st serve!
Offer peer-to-peer reservation trading/purchasing. The 1st camper reserves the site and pays for it. The 1st camper decides last minute that they cannot go or do not want to go. They offer to sell the reservation to a 2nd camper for no more than original purchase price. 1st camper gets full refund. 2nd camper gets the reservation for original price. Campground doesn’t lose money or offer any refunds.
Yes!
Nope, this opens the door for scalping sites or worse – computer driven programs booking and reselling. Simply put, No Refunds and reservation confirmation required one week prior to reservation or site is open.
Have a way for people to offer their site to be transferred if they want to cancel. They get their refund, and a the people coming in pay for the site. Win/win.
Excellent!
My opinion it falls on the consideration and respect for others of the person reserving the site. if they are a no show 1st day open the camp site for other people. Still charge the original reservation. If it happens twice by the same tag associated for any campground restrict them from making another for 6 months. There also needs to be controll over these bots booking sites, people with $$ are paying extra to book hard to get reservations in should be first come first serve and the luck of you getting what you want.
If the campers are no shows and if there is projected demand, they could be contacted and offered a partial refund to cancel. A couple of phone calls could make everyone happy.
If the demand isn’t there, don’t make the call.
If the camper does not arrive within 12 hrs of their reservation time, it is automatically cancelled. This would work best for multi-day reservations. That way campsites are not sitting empty for days at a time.
They must confirm 24 hours before the reservation day, otherwise the spot is reopened and up for grabs.
I am also frustrated with empty camping sites. Not bad for the campground since they have their money. I have another concern about handicapped sites. I am handicapped and get frustrated when I have to take a non handicapped site because someone who is NOT handicapped reserved the site! What is the point then? You should have to prove you are handicapped to reserve the site, then if it has not been reserved it could be first come first serve. On reserve America these sites are booked out a year in advance. I m not saying I should have an advantage but there should be a requirement for proof.
Many state parks do require proof when you arrive, but not when booking. Others allow anyone to grab the site if no one has booked it 24 hours ahead.
The issue with reserved but empty is actually a simple solve. Being in the hotel business for over 35 years you see similar issues, you’ve taken reservations on a space for a week or 2. The reservist doesnt show and doesnt call ( cause in their mind we dont fit into their hurried life so why call. The solve?? Give 2 days for the reserve a no call no show means a space is available for rent. Print it on your business flyers and online adds. As for refunds nope!! We gave you plenty of notice your deposit covers the hold we placed on your spot for that day. It’s only fair! Be considerate act accordingly. The campground is a business and it operates in a small window of tourism.
Go back to the first come first served. If you want a site, pay, put up a small tent until you can get your unit there and you got it
Unfortunately, that is one of the reasons parks went to the half-and-half system, and now to the full reservation system. It caused folks to arrive hours before check in time to get the “best” sites, thus we camp hosts could not get sites cleaned in time. It also was called unfair (just like the empty sites) because locals always got first shot AND they would get their buddies to go ahead and stick chairs in multiple sites to save their spot in line.
Which all points to the root cause of the problem: people won’t follow the rules.
I think it’s also a vicious cycle of demand, and effort to get what’s in demand. When I was a movie theater employee, I saw this happen with more people lining up earlier for opening weekend evening showings of big franchise films, to the point that management would schedule extra shifts to handle them, until reserved movie seating became available; and this was happening with people starting lines for Black Friday, iphone, and video game console lines further and further in advance until COVID happened.
So although these aren’t perfect parallels to campsites, I think the general principle of “the harder it is to get, the greater lengths people will go to, which has the effect of making it even harder to get” will still apply here. So the various reservation systems definitely need some improvement, but some degree of reservation or lottery or other system is probably going to be necessary to prevent things from getting out of hand.
Suggestion- instead of $ refund for cancellation- give a campground stay. It could even be 1/2 the time reserved & the campground may get extra $ when they do come bk if they add camping days to their voucher.
That is a great deal for locals, but for those of us travelling distances, there is no advantage. We are not likely to venture 2000 miles again for a 2-night refund site.
It should be stipulated on the reservation system that If camp site is not taken by 7pm the fitst day they will be made available to anyone who wants them and that reservation canceled.
First come first serve, put it back the way it was.
Here’s an idea to alleviate the anger over empty sites: if the original reserver is no-call/no-show after 24 hours, open the site to fcfs campers. Then, take 25% of that fee and give to any charity in the name of the no-show, and the park keeps the remaining 75%. Lesson to the no-shows…either cancel or lose your payment, AND site.
How about if they cancel close to date, besides any partial refund, if the site gets booked for their time slot they recieve a much larger refund.
Many RVers need to schedule and shop for a camping trip. Cancellations that are allowed up to 24 hours before the use date will not give enough time for other families to be ready to go. Make a number of both types of sites non-reservable. This use to work at Yellowstone state park in Wisconsin…. until the went to 100% reservable. Don’t allow campers to pile up in those mornings and wait for the Nons to open up. That will be just another problem that will need to be addressed. This issue is mainly for weekend days, sites are open during the week but not always an option.
Easy run it first come first serve if you check in and there is a spot then great if not check back tomorrow have a set check out time and so you know for the rest of the day that there is a spot open for the next person that shows up to get a camp spot and no waiting list because then that gives people a chance to go else where just simple first come first serve to who ever is a there to book a spot at that moment
Back in day. .first come first serve no reservations. Get up early or don’t get a site seemed to work better
I bet most campground reservations are done with a credit card. At time of booking, the camper gets charged the rate at the site per day, And a $150 deposit. If the camper shows up on time and stays the duration of the reservation, they get their $150 back. If they depart early, they forfeit $50. A no show costs the camper the entire $150. There needs to be a significant penalty for a no show.
I agree. I’d also take away each persons right to reserve a site after 3 “no shows.”
Cut off times for arrival. If you aren’t there by the next morning, campsites are now available and the late comer gets a different site, unless reservations have been modified. Real time tracking via a mobile app, to improve communication. Handicap sites should have a range of qualifying issues for reserving – restrict to those primarily with mobility and other qualifying conditions- people need to honestly demonstrate a need for these important spaces – ie, bladder control issues or anxiety are not qualified conditions!
But how do you know their disability? It’s illegal to ask. Not all disabilities are visible and it’s no one’s business. The campground needs to make sure the handicap tag number matches the owners drivers license.
They could institute a policy that you forfeit your reservation if you don’t show up sometime in the first 24 hours or at least update the reservation to inform you will be arriving later. This would limit a campsite to only one day of being reserved but empty, rather than a full week.
Easy solution: if I win a lotto site in another campground and I let go of a reservation and someone else picks it up – I should get my full refund. This policy has zero impact on park revenue and encourages me to cancel if my plans change.
Give refunds to people who cancel if the site is re-rented This would encourage people to cancel and use the website for greater efficiency.
Or, raise your rates and give a rebate if they show up.
I like this. They get half back and a last minute camper gets a shot.
I understand it will add to the staff workload, but if one cancels their reservation late and no one else stays on the site, the customer gets no refund and the campground gets all the money they otherwise would have, but if another camper moves in, why not a half refund for all the nights it was rented? This way the campground will get 1.5 their rate for the effort as well as a full campsite, and the cancelling customer gets the possibility of a partial refund which will encourage more to make the effort.
Great idea!
I completely agree with this. In that situation the campground actually would bring in more money while also being able to help last minute campers with these unclaimed spots. For long reservations the person holding the space should be required to call the campground if they don’t arrive within 72 hours after check in to continue holding their space. That way if they aren’t coming that space could be made available and they could also be offered a partial refund for doing the considerate thing and calling in.
Let’s talk about minimum stay requirements. If the campground requires a three night minimum, but I can only stay two, the site will be empty-no show for one
1. Provide paltry sums for late & partial cancellations. 48 hours is standard non cancel for the night at hotels. They’ll still let you cancel later nights. Similarly, provide some 10-15% back to late cancellations. It’s essentially, don’t do it, but it’s at least worth hitting cancel button.
2. Do reverse time-windowing on last-minute reservations. Sell them at 20-25% discount to get fuller bookings if you’ve had late cancellations.
3. Include or Sell “here-only” sweetener packages, such as s’mores packs, easy fire starters, bait, etc. and have available things people forget to pack. You have to be there or you’re loosing the “freebies” (you give away things that are actually small & cheap when in bulk). Hotels do this with “romance” packages and whatnot.
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You need to make staffing more appealing, consider tip based services. Or, ways employees can earn additional perks for working there, such as extra access.
If a camper doesn’t show up then the next morning their campsite is cancelled and open for rebooking. Anyone having problems getting there will let that campground know. You don’t show your campsite is given up.
Why are we not hearing folks complain about hotels that are full, but rooms that are empty? Apartments with a no vacancy sign, but empty units? Because we can’t see them!
When I was a manager, employees were forever complaining about the behavior or other employees: stayed in the bathroom too long, took too long a break, etc. My response was that if they were minding their own business and doing their job, they wouldn’t have time to notice what others were doing. Perhaps the reasons the site is empty is actually no one else’s business?
When we buy/rent something, it really is no one else’s business how we use it UNLESS it causes safety issues or is illegal. Neither of which apply to empty sites.
Inconsiderate attitude. No shows at hotels are canceled at 6pm. Campers are not looking to rent an apartment. This is the wrong outlook on recreation and is an extremely selfish position.
Put the site back up for reservations. If it gets used by someone else then original reservation gets full/partial refund depending on how many cancelled days it gets used.
How about if the reserved party doesn’t arrive by a certain time it becomes FFS? Just give a disclaimer or number to call if they are running late.
No call, no show, no refund. FCFS after 24 hrs.
Best idea
Make it clear when site is reserved if you are not here by such a time and we have not heard from you that you’re running late site will be forfeited, then make that site available.
If someone is canceling and some one else is willing to pay upfront then refund the cancellation after payment for the new one is received.
Maybe 24 hrs after the no show the site opens back up. That way at least the last minute campers might get a chance to find a site
Could there be a credit for 50% ( or some other percentage) off your next stay?
Current system where most or all sites reserved completely eliminates any spontaneous travel. There never should be more than half the sites reservable. This way folks with predictable plans can be served, while those who prefer spontaneity can also be served. Regarding wasted resources when reserved sites go empty: if you fail to cancel a reservation and are a no show, you are barred from making any future reservations anywhere for 3 years. I suppose you could also charge a notable reservation fee that is refunded when you show up. A simple call avoids the penalties.
But all this makes camping complicated. And camping is supposed to help us escape the complicated life. I personally prefer a first come first serve policy.
No reservations. First come , first served. It always worked fine in the past .
The policy should be that of your cancel after the refund period and someone else takes your spot you get an 80% refund. So when the cite is full folks get on a wait list. When the cancelation occurs an email goes out automatically to everyone on the waitlist and if the spot gets booked a refund issues.
Park figures or if it’s 50% or 80% that will cover the cost of staff needing to deal with the changes. If the park cant afford more staff for the phone their are cheap alternatives like a remote worker who gets trained just to take these calls an an independent contractor.
This is a great idea and could be automated … The cancelation process could be entirely online … If the only way to cancel was online via a process like this then it wouldnt require human interaction and could be processed up to the last minute online … Or by the camp host for drive ups …
Offer % off future booking if they cancel less than 2 or 3 days out. Then rebook current site. Use a random generator to create one time use code for next online booking.
A lot of campgrounds will rent out your site if you don’t show by 10am the morning after your original check in for example. This way if they get a walk in it won’t sit empty all week. I have no problem not getting a refund for a last minute cancellation. The campground could potentially get two fees this way.
Really good idea – a win win for campground and “walk in” campers legitimately frustrated by all the unused, but reserved, campsites. And no administrative hassles or revenue loss for campground.
Thumbs up
It’s simple. Two no shows and you are out for the season.
A big part of the problem is the cancelation policy. I had a spot in a Colorado State Park and had to cancel less than 24 hours of arrival. When canceling I was going to lose my entire fee (which I expected) but then I was going to be charged an additional $8.00 service fee. So I didn’t cancel I just let the site go unused.
Keep the current cancellations policy for fees but impose a $100 security deposit feel that is only refunded once you check-in or if you cancel the reservation. No shows loose the $100 fee.
Excellent idea!
Computerize reservations to allow those that wish to cancel last minute to transfer the reserved site to another and they get a full/partial refund as soon as the new person/group pays. Should be simple.
We have been camping at Maryland Assateque State Park for 50 years. You must reserve and pay for the entire time a year in advance to get a site. This year we had difficult time getting a site for 2023. I am handicapped but handicap sites are reserved by non handicap persons most of the time. We stay for 2 weeks every year and my wife’s sisters and brother usually try to get a site for the same time, which makes for a family sitting on the beach together most days. Our 2 grandchildren have been going with us for most of their lives. My son and daughter in law come down for a shorter time and have great time with their children. Many sites were empty this year, but reserving a for 2023 was difficult. My daughter, who doesn’t camp, makes the reservations on line (which is a matter of timing and persistence).
I believe in the first come first served method. Reason is serious campers will make the effort to get there. With a reservation those people show up when they want, or not. If serious campers know for sure they get a campsite all your spaces will get filled, go the other way and soon no one will show up to camp cause they will assume it’s full all the time. Be a shame to waste a good camping area cause all assume it’s full.
I like the idea of relisting the campground if the reserved group does not show within 24 hrs of the reservation time. Keep the fees, no refund if not canceled within however long. But, if that group does not show after a day, relist the campsite! This would work especially well for those campsites that have been booked for multiple days. You’d be surprised how many people would jump on to that opportunity, even at the last minute.
Giving enough of a partial refund might incentivize folks to process a cancellation and provide the park the opportunity to resell it for 1st come 1st serve at full price … That is a win win for everyone
It’s simple, make it so other companies can’t reserve all the spaces themselves and upcharge us citizens. You go from the recreational website from $23 a night, then there would be another website advertising the same site for $30 a night trying to make $7 a night extra. Just quit with the greed
Add a policy similar to breaking a lease. Allow a reservation to be cancelled but still responsible for the cost unless the site is taken by a new reservation. Then if someone cancels a couple of days beforehand but you get a last minute person looking for one, you can transfer the use of the site to the new person. The risk of mostly carried by the original reservation while allowing flexibility. The greatest risk to the campground is ensuring that refunds are properly process when a reservation is transferred and not charge to both parties.
My personal opinion is that if the person who has reserved the campsite doesn’t show up or contact the park to tell them that they are coming, after 24 hours the site should become available to everyone else. If the park rebooks it, that will provide extra revenue allow more people a chance to camp and not allow the sites to sit empty.
Just give the spot away if they don’t show by noon of the 2nd day of their reservation. Just because you don’t get a refund doesn’t mean you should be inconsiderate of someone else who could use that spot. People should get a refund if canceling and the Campground is able to rent it to someone else. If it doesn’t get rented then no refund.
All no shows are sent a text with a time frame to respond via a code to the website to confirm late arrival. No response, means the site is available for rebooking & no refund. If they respond to confirm or cancel, refund based upon the new booking. Policy up front and no excuses for “not getting the text” or voluntarily updating the reservation on the website.
Many places have a time limit for the campsite. It can be reserved, but must be occupied by 6pm or it is available to anyone. Then there are less unoccupied sites. After 6pm most open sites will fill up.
Also, there are never enough tent camping sites for those of us who still tent camp.
I reserved at a local park that stated no cancelation 4 days in advance, but it also stated that if you were not occupying your space by check in of the second day of reservation, your space would be given away.
You didn’t even say that name of the park in the entire article, yet made reference to it repeatedly. This whole article is poorly written.
Most of my appointments these days include the office calling or emailing 24-48 hours before arrival to confirm I’m still coming. I have personally never cancelled that way but I suspect many others do, otherwise they wouldn’t be doing it?
The issue has much to do with demand and reservation system parameters.
A. One cannot reserve until “X” days before the desired first day of camping.
B. One can reserve the site for typically 10-14 days.
C. People reserve all of the days leading up to their desired weekend then no-show or cancel the planned unused days leading up to their desired weekend.
I cuise MI State Parks for last minute openings. They also have an email notification system should something open up last minute. Ican the log in and make the reservation. The first completed reservation wins.
How about giving the four to seven days out cancelations give them a half credit coupon (with an expiration date) for their next trip and half refund.
I believe that little credit just might end up being a win win for both sides of the story.
The park gets to make up the difference lost and the campers will be far more motivated to rebook because they in a sense have a half off coupon for another future camping trip.
And if they don’t use it by the expiration date the park has at least only lost out on half the original camp reservation fee.
Hopefully there is a place on your website reservations or promotions sites that put up notices about last minute cancelation openings? And perhaps the park could offer these spots for half off the regular fee?
Charge a $200 no show fee like you get for a hotel reservation. People would be more likely to make the effort to cancel or show up if they know they will lose $200 or more.
Cancel. If the site gets filled you get a refund. Seems pretty simple.
Penalty fees for no -shows. People also reserve extra days knowing they will likely only use half of it. As a person who always feel like you can never get sites on the weekends, this is super frustrating and unfair. OR make all sites everywhere first come first serve. No reservations at all! The parks don’t have to staff this headache at all
Ask for a deposit. If they show up within 24 hours it’s taken out of your stay. If you don’t show up you loss your deposit. This way the only ones losing are the people that don’t have the curiosity of making a simple call to cancel. And for the park to have a separate line for cancellations so people can get thur to let them know they can’t make it. Then the ones that actually call in get a refund the ones that don’t are the ones that lose their refund. We are all responsible adults, we pay our bills why can’t we pay for our actions.
Make available ‘ No Show’ spaces 24 hours after check in date. Don’t let them sit empty.
Do as doctor offices do send text to confirm that you are arriving, if no response 24 hrs before arrival time cancel the reservation. If they do answer and cancel give them deposit back, if no response charge them for the entire time reserved for. Put site back up for reservations.
No show no call no refund.the after 24 hours fcfs
More first come/first serve sites, less reservation sites. There are less and less sites designated. There is still a desire to make last-minute plans and go camping, otherwise there would not be a conversation about frustration over empty campsites.
I wish I had an answer because I am one frustrated reservation-site user. It’s not easy to reserve, the website is not user-friendly, often there’s no sites available, thus more frustration when you find out there’s so many empty reserved sites!!! Fortunately for us there’s a local campground that’s NO RESERVATIONS!! First come first served, and we’ve had no trouble going at the last minute. However, that doesn’t help us with wanting to try other parks! Our lifestyle doesn’t accommodate needing to make reservations weeks or months in advance!! I guess I’m just venting because I don’t have the solution just the frustration!!! Gone are the good ole days of going to a park and just taking an open site!! ☹️☹️
And I don’t think the cancellation fee is appropriate because I do have the courtesy and respect to cancel but then I’m charged for it!!! Makes no sense. It’s one thing to lose my reservation money, that’s my fault, but to be penalized for trying to be respectful????
Perhaps create a waiting list system in which it asks, or even requires a person reserving the site to go to a website that shows people who are in a waiting list queue for their site. The cancelling party would receive full refund from the waiting list party and the campground would receive notification on line that the transaction was completed, enabling the campground update the reservation.
Or…how about just releasing the campsite if the reserved party does not show up within 24 hours of their reservation unless they have notified campground they will be arriving late.
If someone wants to cancel after the deadline make the reservation into an assumable status so someone else can reserve it. If they do then the first person receives a refund minus a service fee and everyone is happy.
Here is a possible solution. . The campgrounds say that they lose money if they offer refunds. Try this. If a campsite is reserved but empty, and someone is there and wants it, then rent it to the person that is there and THEN refund the person that isn’t. The campground loses no money. Win win. Have a reasonable check in time. And a solid policy in writing regarding what may happen if you don’t show up. If you reserve a room at a hotel, and don’t show up, that hotel will rent that room to someone else. Often with no refund for the no-show.
Bill your using common sense, in today’s world that’s not common anymore!
The issue is that you can, and must, make your reservations 6 or more months out. Life happens.
This is a case where a robo-call could save the day. You MUST take one of several calls, say 4 tries, or reply to a text one month out confirming the reservation or it will be cancelled.
If a camper doesn’t check in on the first day of reservation (without notification), they forfeit their entire visit with no refund and the site goes back into availability. Double the profit. Also don’t allow huge advance reservation windows. Just open it only a month prior so people are fresh on their reservation. Lastly… Just up the camping site cost to make it more valuable.
This is a bad idea to up the cost. I’m disabled as is my son, and disabled people on ssdi and SSI can’t afford higher cost.
There shouldn’t be cancellation/refund policy’s in place. All campsites should be purchased/paid for when booking the site. Can’t make it? Better sell your campsite on line or choke the cost down. That way, no matter what, the campsite doesn’t lose a dime. Should be treated as a ticket to a concert/sporting event. You got the ticket, if you can’t make it, it’s up to you to figure out how to sell it and get your money back.
What if they offered canceled reservations a % back, unless they can successfully resale the reservation. Then they would get a full refund (less processing fees). This would hopefully encourage those canceling to notify you earlier, giving a greater opportunity to resale their reservation, in hopes for them to get a full refund.
It would makes sense that no shows, get their site forfeited. If they do not check in within 24hrs of their original reservation the site is forfeited. As far as fees, there should be a lower fee for reserving that gets applied to the site after their stay, and does not get refunded if cancelled after 24hrs of the start of their reservation
If canceling close to the reservation date offer a 50% refund only if the site gets rented out, refund to be determined after the reservation time passes. For no shows, send a text if they are still showing up? No response or response with a no will open up the site.
24 hours or next day to occupy your site if not occupied it becomes fair game. We are tired of seeing reserved but empty campsites and am glad to see it’s noticed but someone.
I agree with this comment Maria. This used to be the policy years ago it should be reinstated.
“Conditional refunding, if taken by others” is the best way to solve this problem
One suggestion to help address the empty campsites and allow those needing a site to be able to get one is to charge a no show fee. So, those who don’t cancel their reservation because they know they won’t get a refund, might be prompted to cancel to avoid the no show fee.
The option to occupy no shows empty spots should be open at 2 pm, unless a refundable if show up late arrival deposit. No refund if no show.
Can only reserve 1 month in advance
Full refund for cancellations.
No shows w/o cancellation is changed a penalty fee on top of cost of booking 2x
If not present 1st night of booking subsequent nights are forfeited and posted available on site if technically feasible &/or walk-in.
Only allowed 2 cancellations per year if more than 2 have to wait until the next year
Have less campsites available for reservations and more for walking in premium sites for reservations
The comments at the beginning of this string are false, that the campgrounds would loose to much money if they offered refunds for cancellations. First of all if a reservation is not cancelled 48 hrs ahead of time there should be no refund. Those 48 hrs would be used for call ins to reserve a cancellation. If a camper does not show up by 6:00 pm the day of the reservation they forfeit any monies spent. This would allow the campgrounds enough time to let new arrivals in register and set up. This would also make more money for the campgrounds as they would be able to keep the no show money and receive the newly arrived campers monies. Win win! The inconsiderate no shows are then held accountable financially.
It’s just rude. Charge them double.
Not a camper, but how about the carrot and stick method. A 10% penalty for no shows well documented in advance if they don’t cancel. Then a 50% refund if the park can rent the site they had reserved for the number of days that overlap no matter when they cancel. This would free up desirable sites and improve park cash flow.
I have a suggestion for those who have suggestions:
Volunteer at least one month to be a camp host or work the reservation desk. If you are local and work during the week but camp on weekends, find parks looking for extra volunteers for weekends. Then come back and offer your perspective.
Our current culture is full of rules and systems invented to force people to “do the right thing.” Our lawmakers and a lot of law enforcement would be out of a job if people just followed the laws we do have.
Most of these forced systems don’t work all that well and many are just another interesting challenge to people who make it their life’s work to beat those systems.
Bottom line: Human behaviors are the problem and more rules and systems won’t change it. Only a cultural change that rewards honesty and integrity will do that.
First come first served
The idea that “the explanation and bottom line is that the park can’t afford a more generous refund policy” is ludicrous. With the clamoring for campsites, not just at private but at public campgrounds as well, we need an accurate online reservation and cancellation website. The re-booking will more than compensate for a fair cancellation system. And I suspect that another reason campgrounds do not encourage cancellations is they are counting on a less than full park because of staffing.
Many places I have checked online as well as calling want campers to reserve for a whole week. I want to be able to go somewhere for maybe just two nights and don’t want to pay for a whole week.
Some parks charge for the entire reservation upfront, and then makes it difficult to cancel and retrieve any of the fees. I have worked at several parks and find it is much easier to fill “empty, no show” sites if only the 1st day or two is paid in advance. If we find someone has not arrived, we make several attempts to contact them. If there is no response, or no contact we cancel the reservation, thereby allowing someone else to have a site. It is not a perfect system and can be labor intensive, especially when you are short staffed, but rewarding when you can tell a guest, “Yes, we have a site”.
Simply use the same reservation and awards protocol as the hotels do.
If a person is a no call no show and fails to cancel the reservation then all their reservations for the rest of the year are cancelled and they aren’t allowed to make any reservations until the following year
If you do not show up by the next morning without a call, you forfeit your site. No refunds. A hotel, condo or any other rental would do this.
Stubhub
Agreed with your cancelation assessment. We tested for covid within 4 days of going camping. We canceled the trip however surprised bases a proven medical reason could not get a complete refund. Makes appearance that makes more $ off of canceling. The booking/ system needs to be more Amazon like.
Why not offer campers an option to “sell” their campsite to others if they can’t/don’t want to use the site, but at a substantial discount to discourage “scalping.” This could be done on the website so it wouldn’t affect staff needs. The “buyer” would need to take the whole block of time. That would allow more sites to be used.
Maybe set up a way for a person to mark their reservation as cancelled, and give someone else a chance to buy that reservation from them. Then they’ll get their money back, someone can stay in the site, and the campground doesn’t lose any money. You could even take a fee for the service out of the money the original reserver gets back.
We see this all the time in NW Wyoming. It’s not fair to locals that want to camp and I think the park service should install a clause that would basically fine a reservationists 50-100 dollars for not canceling at least two weeks ahead of their arrival date or stop the reserving program and go back to first come first served. This would stop the problem and free up the vacancies. Ever since Wyoming started this locals can’t find any vacant spots.
If you had a large fine for not canceling more than two weeks out then people would just not cancel their reservation at all.
Having worked for the FS when reserving went to a contracted system I can tell you, your tax dollars are better spent keeping reservations for cabins and lookouts local. Campgrounds were all first come, first serve. I know that’s a shocking idea for certain personalities but it works. It worked for years and years. Government contractors make money. Don’t let them fool you. They make big money. Keeping your money as their fee and not renting empty spaces? They still make money and the empty space costs them nothing in maintenance. People wanting all the services can still rent from private businesses. Do away with reservation services or put them back with the managing agencies. You are already paying them. Why pay an expensive contractor in addition?
I agree completely. First come first served is best! I worked for Colorado Parks and Recreation in the late 70s & early 80s. First come first served WORKS. Reservations came about from people who felt entitled to sites they couldn’t or wouldn’t show up first for. Get the greed and profit for reservation agencies out and everyone wins… which is why it will probably never go back to FCFS. A zero refund policy for no shows and short cancelations would help if reservations are going to be the way we do it. Biting ’em in the pocket book will be enough to get all but the most entitled into line.
As a local in my area, I find it very frustrating that every time I try to camp, most or all of the sites are reserved and they are no shows the entire time I’m there. I think they should limit refunds to 25%. That will discourage the abuse of reserving.
If your reserved site is not occupied in 24 hours from check in time then it becomes available to anyone.
Totally agree, and no refund if you don’t cancel.
I believe that is currently the policy here in Utah.
YES!!!
No reservations at all! First come first serve.
If you like driving around on your first day of vacation looking for a campsite with a vacancy, then have at it.
The point of the reservation system is so that you don’t have to waste your vacation time doing that.
Also, my reservation system is first come first serve. Whoever makes the reservation first, is served first – if you’re still a vacancies, then those are first come first serve at the gate.
One simple solution is that a reservation gets refunded (or partial) only if the site gets rebooked for the days cancelled. Opens up the site, incentivizes the reservation to be cancelled if not being used, no loss to campground of income, win win win.
Half the campground reservable, the other half first come first served. If not occupied during the first 24 hours reservation flips over to FF and campsite becomes available. I love to camp and this reserve system is so frustrating. Especially when I see so many empty “reserved” sites.
I agree, if they don’t show in 1st 24 hrs, it goes up for FF. Keep it simple.
If the issue is no refund on short notice cancellations, maybe change policy to charge for first day, no additional refund if spot is not filled by someone else.
We had to book our July trip in January just to get a spot. The campground we wanted was already full (as was nearly every other campground I checked for the entire camping season).
If people are booking more than 6 months out perhaps they are forgetting about the reservation by the time the reservation comes up.
Send email reminder/confirmation 10-14 days before reservation date.
This is why I stick with free sites first come first serve
If Anyone Makes a Reservation for whatever how many days, that site is theirs! NO REFUNDS ON RESERVATIONS MADE!! PERIOD!! If a person is NOT sure they will be there, then DON’T MAKE THE RESERVATION!! If we
are near a campground and decide we drove far/long enough, and call the campground to see if they have a site available with what we need then the campground needs to take the credit card number & information and charge for that night. If they get there and decide they want to stay longer, Go To The Office and pay for THOSE nights.
IT SEEMS SIMPLE TO US!!
IT’S CALLED BEING RESPONSIBLE CAMPERS!!
This is a simplistic response, since it assumes that all campers are responsible in the first place:
The point of this article suggests that they are not always responsible, and thus, it’s a problem.
It isn’t that hard. All these reservations are made online using a credit card. Clearly state this policy up front. Your card will be charged double. If and when you check in half will be reversed in the charges on the cc. That means when checked in your charge will fall to what it is supposed to be. But if you dont check in on the day reserved that double charge remains. To avoid that double charge you have to cancel within 24 hours of the check in time. Then at least someone can show up and get a spot. To avails the entire charge you might need to cancel well in advance. But even at the last minute you have a financial incentive to actually cancel if you not going to show up.
That’s not a good idea. First of all you don’t get double charged. That’s called an authorization hold. It’s not really a charge but it is sort of a test to make sure your card actually is capable of holding that amount. This is done by the credit card side of things automatically and not by the business owner. Not only is it not actually a charge but you wouldn’t be allowed to make it one if you wanted to. Also nobody making the reservation would go for any place doing this anyway. More likely the first campground that tried this would see reservations drop and they would lose money.
That sounds like a pretty good idea to me.
Why can’t they ask campers to confirm a week in advance, otherwise resell their spot. No need for refund.
…or stop taking reservation more than a week old. There will most like be available reservation appointments a week before. They should have much more revenue to report if they are THAT booked up, which they are not. Just another scam.
If the spot is reserved, tell them if they don’t show up at a certain time, and don’t call that they’re running late, rent it out to the next person that calls.
Show up or forfeit the saved preferred lot by 11 next day. Need to Communicate and change intended arrival to hold that lot. What happens if they show a day late 😬 and site was given away? Well I’d only let those with existing reservations change to the better/ different lot. That way the “no shows” have a site if they should show up.
Being one who has always enjoyed c
amping specially when my kids were growing up. From tent camping to rv camping . Let me say strongly, first come first get the sites was the best policy in my book.How do I know? I am retired now and can’t camp as much now as I could before. Every thing is reserved! Then again I guess it is cheaper to reserved sites at state campgrounds, then to pay yearly fees at private campgrounds and still get to go when you want even if you pay and don’t get a refund. Again first come first receive. The only way even the daily working people with children can get a chance to just go and enjoy themselves.
Put a rule in place that states, “if the reservation is longer than 2 days and the party that reserved it doesn’t show up, cancel it or claim it within 24 hours from the first day reserved, they lose the site and no refund is allowed.
This is what they say the rules are for California State Parks. Unless this is new, I haven’t seen any evidence of it.
“If you cancel a reservation, a cancellation fee of $7.99 will be assessed per reservation. Cancellations can be made online or by calling our Customer Call Center at (800) 444-PARK (7275).This service is available 7 days a week, from 8 a.m. to 6 p.m. PST (except New Year’s Day, Thanksgiving Day and Christmas Day). Customers will be charged a $7.99 cancellation fee if cancelled after 6:00 p.m. the day before arrival, and will forfeit the unit fee for one night and the $7.99 reservation fee. Customers will be charged a $7.99 cancellation fee if cancelled before 6:00 p.m. the day before arrival and forfeit the $7.99 reservation fee.
A campsite will be held for you until 12 p.m. the day after your arrival date. If you have not called the park before that time, you will be considered a “no show” and the park will cancel your reservation.”
After 4pm, if no word from reserver, site open to new party
Reservations have to be confirmed 72 hrs in advance or that site is open again. Customer gets charged full price if not confirmed by then. Site is free to reserve again to anyone and it’s half price. Everyone wins. It’s simple to program that into the system.
Yes, quite simple: instead of no refund for cancellations within 4 days, change the policy to a 50% refund IF the site gets reserved by someone else.
That way, the camper is motivated to cancel the reservation because they at least have a chance of getting half their money back, and the campground is incentivized to give the site to someone else because they’re still making 100% for the new reservation plus the other camper’s 50%.
Alternately, requiring some sort of check-in – and if there is no call or check-in on the day of, staffing allows, they should reach out to that party to confirm, and otherwise give the site to someone else if they don’t respond. But this option requires more staffing and effort.
Why can’t the parks keep some sites available for weekenders and RVers that just want to camp for 4 days and don’t want the yearly reservations.
I belong to a membership campground ( AOR). Our organization recently went to a reservation system where you not only reserve your time but your chosen lot. Result? Spots that remain empty day after day while members are told ” no sites available.” Most efficient system over all the years for the members was first come first first serve. 90 to 95% full with 100% weekend use. Under reservation system 50 to 60% mid week close to 100% weekends.
Put an option added in your reservation section for people to list cancelation sites. These can be looked at same as other unreserved sites and the individuals that put in the cancelation gets refunded once it’s reserved by the next camper. This gives everyone that made a reservation they need to cancel the opportunity to get the refund that many campgrounds do not offer and that’s a HUGE incentive to put in their cancelation online or call and cancel. I know I would without a doudt because it’s almost guaranteed to be wanted by someone as hard as it is to find a place to camp. And personally we have listed our canceled reservation online and got full reimbursement to another person wanting a camping spot. And this is because we wasn’t able to get a refund from the campground. That was a win win situation.
Currently online reservations show a status of reserved or available. I suggest a third status – RA – reserved but available, the party that has it reserved can place it in that state. Then some one that wants that site can take the reservation, pay for the site, and the system would refund the previous owner of the reservation, minus administrative fees for the transfer
Charge a $300 hold reservation fee above the cost of the stay. Once you check in the added $300 fee is reimbursed to credit card used. If no show fee applies and is non refundable along with reservation fee.
The solution to this problem is blatantly obvious. Charge a steep no-show fee or collect a deposit that is refunded upon arrival. The nonsense going on now is typical of government solutions….everyone loses.
At our local spring, you can camp for $30 a night. That gets entry for 10 people plus 2 vehicles. Even if you only want to use the spring and don’t care to camp, paying for camping is WAY CHEAPER than paying the entry fee plus parking. That’s why there are a lot of empty sites there. If they offered a more competitive entry fee for a vehicle with occupants this wouldn’t happen so often.
Do what the hotels do. You have a reservation. Check in time is 6:00 pm. If you get there on time all is good. Unless you do a guaranteed late arrival. That means you pay fo the night no matter if to arrive or don’t. If you don’t you spot is released to rent to others.
Same with check out. If you aren’t out by agreed on time. You get to pay the extra day.
It should be just like any chain hotel. If you’re a priority or preferred member you get an extended check in of 10pm, some chains it’s midnight. For NON priority or NONE preferred members check in is no later than 6pm unless you call to inform them of your delay and guarantee your arrival that night.
Now regardless of your membership status at 12:01am you lost the reservation and money for THAT NIGHT and the hotel will sell that room to a latenight check in with the understanding that it’s a one night room.
This is where I would alter the policy.
1.) change latest checkin to 8:00pm unless arrangements are made beforehand. After 8pm the no-show forfeits ENTIRE reservation but are refunded the money’s minus the day of arrival. Campground would need to start a standby list everyday for standby campers.
2.) 72 hour cancellation policy, anything short of that bill for the first night refund the rest.
3.) There are no already parked weather cancellation/refunds allowed.
Tha reserved campsite should be occupied within a period of time or it becomes available
People, people, this is not a difficult problem to solve. Treat it like a hotel reservation. If you aren’t there by 6:00 you pay for the whole thing unless you have made other arrangements. Then the park system opens it up for other people to rent out to space. Your loss their gain.
You folks who don’t cancel are taking advantage of the park system by making reservations and not being responsible enough to cancel. I’m sure most of you can afford to pay for that weekend. I see see driving a $60,000-100,000+ RVs, I don’t think you’re hurting for money.
Late check in has been a feature of most hotel reservations for 25 years
Only allow reservations to stand for a certain amount of time without contact. IE, if their check-in time is noon, and they haven’t at least called to let you know that they’re coming, they lose their reservation. (I’d add that camp staff have to have tried to call them once as well, just to be on the safe side) but if there’s been no contact, then the spot should be opened up to a first come first serve basis.
Could the empty site be available if no shows miss the check in time? Could be set at reservation or a universal time.
The state park I like to swim at only allows camper’s access to the lake on the weekends if you are staying with them. I live 3 hours away the lodge is booked out so I will rent a campsite just to be able to swim. I’m not staying at the campsite. It may be wasteful but I would rather pay access to the lake. I work and pay taxes in this state yet can’t go to a public lake because of these restrictions for crowd control.
I’ve also seen online posts suggesting that if people want to visit a park that requires entry reservations (or, Yosemite, Glacier) but doesn’t have any, to make a campsite reservation instead for maybe $20-30 more. Granted, it only would be the case for a few parks and there may be less expensive options that you can actually do as a day user (Yosemite’s beginner art classes, for example, are the most fun and least expensive art classes I’ve ever had!) But I can imagine how if someone had the extra cash to spare, they might not think twice about it.
Self responsibility. If you make a reservation, no refund allowed.
My suggestion for a solution; If the campers have not showed up within 24 hours of the first book date, contact them to inquire of their intentions. If they say they can’t afford to come (gas prices, etc.) or for any other reason, CANCEL their stay and allow someone else to rent the spot if they’re on the property seeking a site. Campgrounds would get double the pay for the same site. Money problem solved. If someone can’t cancel a reservation in a timely manner or apparently has no concern over losing that reservation money, then that is THEIR problem, not the campgrounds or those wanting to camp and present.
The contract reservation companies are ruining our state parks in Texas. Beautiful parks sit half full due to no shows. We have missed out on so many great weekend camping trips due to this. If a reservation doesn’t cancel and they don’t call before a set time to say they’re coming, they lose the spot. It’s called a policy. We’re all grownups here. Create policies and stick to them. Keep whatever portion of their reservation you deem fair, I don’t care. Let someone else have the spot.
Who are we currently being fair to? People who are not showing up and who abuse the reservation system, that’s who. I’m sick of fighting the system. We’ve given up camping in Texas state parks other than the occasional tent site, and that’s sad. We have a camper! But we can’t get a site.
Punish the no shows, not the people who are there asking to camp, and straighten out this mess. If the contract companies can’t get it right, they’re stealing our money. Fire them.
Do what hotels used to do. If you didn’t show up for your res by midnight the day of, the room would be sold to someone else. Or. If there is no confirmation or reply back from the res holder, let it be taken by another camper by dusk the day of. Dentists and optometrists require a confirmation day of with an email, text and phone call ( all automated) If you don’t reply within 2 hours of your appointment it’s canceled.
Perhaps changing the reservation policy to state that any reserved site can only sit empty 24 hours. If the camper has not checked in during the first 24 hours of a multi day reservation and has not called to explain and request checking in on day two, the reservation is forfeited. If the site is rented to another camper so that the park loses no revenue, then a prorated or percentage refund would be issued. This might solve the issue. The policy would have to be made very clear during the reservation process whether on the phone, in person or online and rigorously enforced. Early departures could be handled the same way. Forfeited days, if sold would have a prorated or percentage refund.
Unless a camper has called and left specific instructions they are arriving late, after the first 18-24 hours, release the site.
Also why not have reservations at a park, example 30 sites, 25 reservations. With stricter no show rules. The other five need to be for travelers who come in and need accomodations. What about overflow area?
Its actually as simple as requiring rsvp. if you do not confirm your reservation 2 to 10 days prior to coming you will not be guaranteed a specific spot. You.may even loose the amount of connections that you have paid for. The park reserves the right to deny access to any individual that it feels is a threat to the good nature of the park or its staff and unconfirmed sites will go on a first come first serve list. Thank you.
Is there a age limit to RVS booking site 2022-1995 ?
Easy solution from private campgrounds, if you no show and no call within 24 hrs of your reservation start time, you forfeit the spot and your money. The spot is now open to whoever. Campground gets more money, campers have more availability.
makes perfect sense. probably because that is what i was thinking
Exactly what I was thinking! Just like a hotel. No show, you loose your reservation and deposit. It sure works for them.
I tried to cancel a camp spot for days in advance and it would have cost me $18 to cancel. I ended up going to my camp spot the next day and using it only for a few hours just to try to get my moneys worth. What a shame. If I could have gotten a full refund I would have released the spot and someone else could have used it. Again, I was canceling 4 DAYS IN ADVANCE. Silly policy.
So, instead of canceling and being out only $18, you spent time and gas to go to the campground, thus “spending” your entire fee, out of spite. You spent more than $18, just because you didn’t like their refund policy. That’s behaving like a mature adult!
Charge a $500 security deposit. If they still no show take away their ability to reserve spots.
We are in a large state park as I write this. It is in the Denver metro area on a large Reservoir. It’s 100° and sunny here today, the beaches and Day tripper parking lots are packed. The campground, with full hook ups, has quite a few empty spaces. I checked on Thursday and none were available. The other side of the refund story is that if people could get their money back and the sites went on the open market, at least here, they would all be rented and not cost the state anything. How about a system where you can cancel anytime right up until the last minute. Then if your site rents you get a refund. If it doesn’t you don’t. People need an incentive to cancel if they’re not going to show.
Pat, think about what you just proposed, and why it won’t work. Your system would have to have competent programmers set it up, whereby it captured all the relevant date, and was tied to the rest of the program. While simple in theory, it takes Management (or some decision-makers) that have a full concept of what their responsibilities are. I have not seen any government office that is filled with people, top-to-bottom, that 1) Have the vision to see how to correct challenges, and 2) Have people in every position who care enough to solve/resolve problems. It would be very simple to set up a system that does what you have proposed. There is not motivation within Colorado Parks and Wildlife to make it happen.
Came here to say this. Just like when getting out of an apartment lease early. If you find someone qualified to take your place, you get out of paying remainder of your obligation. In the case of camping, if someone comes along and takes your spot last minute, and you cancelled, boom. You got your refund.
Partial refunds based on space rerentedl should be an incentive for some. Suspension or bans to those who abuse the system
We have stopped trying to get a campsite at provincial campgrounds . We went for a bike ride yesterday and noticed empty sites. Also people are coming buying day pass and camping in day use area leaving at the 10 pm curfew. This area is a diserable area.
Well, a number of points…. 1) I think probablly the simplest solution and easy to implement is if you don’t show up and check in by 9am the morning after then the site is open and goes back on the open for reservation list. I know this doesn’t help people except pretty much drive ins looking for a first come site, but at least the site is availible for the rest of the reservation period. And no, if you don’t have the courtesy of calling or canceling online then you don’t really deserve a refund. 2) It shouldn’t be too difficult within the reservation and billing system the ability to refund fully or a high percentage of the canceled days IF the site is re-reserved or re-sold for any of the canceled days. Between the two, maybe that would get people to actually cancel, and if they don’t the the park has the opportunity to ensure the site revenue while not getting criticized for empty sites unavailable. I believe the #1 above is policy of Yellowstone and perhaps the rest NPs
Joseph, 2 points: 1) Give them time to resolve whatever problem may have prevented them from arriving the day before. Give them until “Check-in” time to arrive. If they don’t arrive or call by then, make the site available for walk-ins. 2) Colorado does not allow walk-ins at their State Parks. You MUST have a reservation, even if you make it just before entering the entry point. One (of many ) problems with this is, many State Parks have no cell coverage. Can’t make a reservation if you can’t get online. Colo Parks & Wildlife needs to review their policy to accommodate no-shows and walk-ups. Fat chance of that happening!
No show, no communication by the next morning cancels entire reservation, no refund, which frees up site.
Communicating (online only or if staff allows, by phone option too) allows more flexibility – e.g. camper could postpone arrival date in the reservation with no show night(s) non-refundable and open to rebook to other campers OR cancelling campers could preserve partial credit in account for 2 yrs for the next reservation, etc)
YESS. No show, no communication by the next morning cancels entire reservation, no refund, which frees up site.
Sooo tired of driving by the reserved primo empty spots in half empty parks.
And…suspend privileged jerks who abuse the system(s).
There are campgrounds that open a site that stays unoccupied for 12 hrs after check in time and no refunds.
I think that should be the norm.
Suggestion: allow people to post their reservation on the website for others to take over. This will give others a chance to get a last minute reservation. The park won’t lose out on the money and neither will the original reservation holder. You can still charge the $8 fee for the transaction.
Well I have always thought that campgrounds should keep about half of their sites as first come first serve and see how that works out for a while because people that travel get into places that there are no sites open and they end up staying at a Walmart parking lot or worse yet beside the highway so I would give that a try what have they got to loose? Just my opinion.
What they need to do is make it a requirement that the site has to be occupied, if not fine them or negate their reservation. National forests require that the site MUST be occupied every 24 hrs.
Have a check in system just like airlines do. If you don’t check in between 24 hrs of your start time, you could lose your guaranteed spot with no refunds. Then those spots can be made available to FCFS campers
Put people who want to go camping but have no or can’t get reservations on a wait list and the reservation holder will only get a refund if someone else buys it from them. kind of like a stand by list for flying. Minus a nominal service fee. Of course…
If a person with a reservation does not show up within the first 24 hours then it’s first come first served.
Charge a no show fee 24hrs after arrival time and every 24hrs after that if not canceled for the duration of the booking. All 24hr no show fees go to a monthly staff pay bonus. Meaning staff are now incentivized to log no shows. When a campground is 1/2 empty but fully booked work loads are much lower so staff have absolutely no reason to log reserved yet empty sites. Fully booked and 1/2 the work is easier than fully booked and full of people.
Perhaps setup a site similar to “Stubhub” for concert tickets. Increase the cancelation refund window slightly, say 10-14 days. Then provide them an option to list their reservation for re-purchase. If someone snaps up their reservation, they get 95% of their reservation back (5% to cover costs of running and managing the website) this would entice no show-ers to re-list as they could potentially get their money back even days before their arrival date. If their reservation does not get re-booked they are on the hook for the full bill. Provide links to this page on all the state camping sites so if a park is full, they can check the site for last minute cancelations. Provide this info as part of the reservation process so individuals know they can re-list if they decide not to go.
Are people able to see last minute cancelations online so they can reserve a spot?
Very simple you make a reservation you pay total amount if you don’t show up by noon of next day and don’t call you forfeit entire amount and space becomes available for someone else. If you contact you still forfeit and pay a service charge up to one night unless you can provide proof of medical or break down, changed your mind doesn’t count.
Reservation application process needs to have a late arrival time like stating “arriving after 2:00 PM”. If you don’t check that box, you forfeit the spot after 3:00 if your not there. I am tired of going camping without reservations like we always did in the past, but find, when we get to a camp, that sites are reserved with no one in the site. Cancelation fees should be higher and vacant sites made available after 3:00 unless notified otherwise. There are way too many vacant reserved sites especially in government run camps. I also like the idea of a security deposit.
As a tent camper, it really frustrates me when I come into a site that stays empty all weekend. I think that if a campsite is reserved and the site stays empty after 5:00 p.m. on a Friday night that it should be open to those who come in later and need a spot.
I’ve read that many people reserve several campsites in different campgrounds, and don’t worry whether they get a refund or not When they don’t show up.
I feel no one should get a refund if they cancel less than 5 days before. Yes sometimes something awful comes up at last minute but that’s life.
Campground should not pay the brunt of somebody’s poor decisions if they just decided the last minute that the weather is going to keep them from camping. I’ve gone camping in the rain and those have been some of the nicest weekends we’ve had.
If I was a campground host I would open up all sites after 5:00 p.m. on Friday night. It’s only fair to everyone.
Site scalping is part of this issue! To everyone suggesting no cancellation penalties and allowing individuals who didn’t book the site to take over the site is exactly why we see empty sites in a fully booked campground!! Add refund costs and you get site squatters who don’t cancel because it costs a fee. Add a 24hr no show penalty fee for every 24hr of no show and cancellations will magically start happening..
Campgrounds should start doing what hotels do/or use to do. You make a reservation and if you do not pay , call or show up after 24 hours, you lose your site. If there is anything available when and if you show you get a spot. Not sure if this would work but an idea
If you cancel without a refund, and someone else uses and pays for the campsite……. Then you get a credit back for the days the campsite was used.
Obviously there is some administrative work involved in that. But, the campground gets paid for the site, and it act gets used. The campground is not out any money.
This would be an incentive to go ahead and cancel if you weren’t going to use a site, because you may actually not suffer the full, or any loss that you would otherwise.
You’re absolutely right. The campground shouldn’t make the double the money, i.e., once for the reservation that was cancelled and once for the person who eventually takes the site. As you say, it takes a little administrative work, but it’s fair for everyone.
We had a couple of times where we had reservations at a park a long way from home that we’d seen only on the web. We we arrived, the park was nothing like the website – once it was a truly scary place – and we had to find another park on short notice. Sometimes we got a refund from the funky park, sometimes we just ate the money we’d paid.
On the other side of this problem, once we had to totally cancel a month-long trip with pre-made reservations. We had a major problem with our rig that was going to sideline it for several months. We tried to cancel a reservation in Golden, CO two months before our reservation was to happen. Response – No cancellations allowed. That’s wrong.
No more than 1 site booking per same time period by the same individual. Many of these empty sites are booked as cheap large party gathering locations that end up unused. We see it all the time on fb groups where individuals hold multiple sites and are trying to sell the sites or trade multiple sites for a single more desired site. Its the same consumer behavior seen with product hoarding like the COVID toilet paper run. Human behavior is crap and highly predictable. Its not rocket science👍
How many people can just up and go camping on 24 hour notice?
If they are going camping they have it planned and made arrangements for somewhere else.
If a site is paid for why does it matter if they don’t show up. Campground made their money, and have almost no cost for cleaning ect. If I pay for a space and something comes up and I can’t make it the space should stand empty, unless I see a refund. Sounds like this place just wants to double dip on fees.
No show and no cancelled reservations should result in loss of future reservations if any others are made and make it so they can not reserve again for 2 months. That would probably clear up alot of this
Add an agreement that if the renters notify campground that they release the site & it is then re-rented by another user, the original renter receives a full refund.
Yes, otherwise no refund.
Give the reserved camper until 3:00 pm to call in and cancel on the day they are supposed to be there, if not give there space to waiting campers.
I agree with what you’re saying though many campgrounds where we reserved spots had a check-in time policy – not only could you not check in before X time, it also worked the other way around; if you didn’t show by Y time without letting them know you were on your way, you lost your reservation. We had some times where the trip from our last stop took longer for mechanical, road work delays, etc., but we always called the park to let them know when we expected to arrive and make the appropriate arrangements for a late check-in, which sometimes meant we’d get to our spot after the office was closed and do a formal check-in the next morning. I can’t imagine flat out not showing up without some kind of communication.
The solution is simple. Make a reservation and pay for it. If you cancel there is no refund.
The problem there is if there is no refund and my plans change then I don’t cancel because I am paying for it anyway. The site still goes unoccupied
For only one day. The site would be put back on the market if it was reserved for multiple days as they usually are. Miss the first day and lose the entire reservation with no refund.
What if the reserved spots had a time limit to be occupied and that if they weren’t occupied by the reservists the camp ground could then allow others to occupy the space. Then instead of no refund, if the space was rented the number of days that the new renters occupied the space could be refunded back to the original reservers. I know that now puts more work on the already over worked staff, but it’s might ease the frustration of campers see the spot they want sit empty.
Campers with reservations should be required to confirm their intent to use the space 48 hours in advance. Lack of confirmation openers up the space.
Campgrounds should reserve a certain number of sites on a first come, first served basis.
A larger, half refundable upon arrival fee should be required to reserve.
A person with a reservation must call the day of by four pm or risk losing the spot to another camper
Terry, you’re absolutely right. It would be so easy for the reservation packages to include automated confirmation texts/e-mails like I get from my doctors and dentist. A simple confirmation or cancellation response to the campground would take 20 seconds at most. It could also trigger the camper to make a call to the campground if they didn’t want to cancel but needed to modify their reservation.
I will add that I think all the no-shows and other lack of consideration for others seem to be a sign of the degradation of manners in general in the country.
Yes, degradation of manners this day and age. I like Terry’s idea.
Allow cancelations for half refund for a week notification if someone takes the site you reserved
I am so angry about this. I went to a first come first serve campground where every site was occupied except one. And there was a note clipped to the post saying reserved for one day for one person and the next day for another person and the next day for another person. It was already 4:00 p.m. and there was nobody there. I really wanted to just set up camp and get rid of the note. And if somebody came to claim the spot I would say first of all these are first come first serve not reservable. And secondly it’s 4:00 p.m. and you’re not here so…. Too bad.
The only problem is that I’m a female and I was camping alone so I didn’t want any confrontation just in case. Also there aren’t any park hosts on site.
This is not the first time that it’s happened to me either. I can’t believe the reserve America app says the whole campsite is first come first serve yet someone put a note that says reserved how is that okay? I drove 3 hours and then I had to drive 3 hours back. BS
If they no show without calling for their first night reservation will be cancelled no refund.
Maybe reserve a space but not particular site. Sites are selected on first come first serve basis. Then at least the least desirable sites are the no shows.
We have the same issue with provincial campgrounds in Canada too. I say, 12 hours past no show, loose reservation and open site to someone who will use it. No money lost to staff or campground and maybe it teaches those “no showers” to use it or lose it.
The policy should be if the space is re-rented to another camper then the original person should get their reservation fee back. That opens the spots for other people. If it isn’t re-rented then no refund if they cancelled during the “no refund” period. I have seen places that do that for many types of businesses including campgrounds.
They need to have only half of the campsites reservable. People are reserving theses sites way ahead of time and just not showing up. If you refund them the day of it doesn’t help either bc they will wait until the last minute to cancel so we won’t see it available until it is too late anyways. I think the half and half reservation allows for both, people that truly want to plan in advance and the ones that just want to show up which for most of the roadtrippers is the best solution since it gives you some flexibility .
No info…no refund. Every time I go camping I get to stay on overflow. As a independent business owner I cannot book too far in advance for various reasons. There is so many empty camp spots..enough already
Campers should have to be present for the first night and the last night or present at least half of they’re stay
Let the camper’s sublet and offer some help from resort to ask camper’s if they want to lease their reservation in all or part if there is demand. Several ways of doing this cometo mind. Just one is to ask campers when they make reservations if they’d like to be added to a list of subletters. They could be contacted by staff or potential campers directly if there is request for their particular type of reservation. So many ways it could be done to mitigate costs versus benefits for everyone.
Bad idea
I would have a waiting list for those who would like to camp there. If there is a cancelation, the first on the waiting list that fits that sight would get the spot. I think giving 1/2 back or a portion is very generous because it truly is a gamble if the site gets reserved again. To many cancelations can lead to an rv park going under. It’s a risk we take when we sign up that we might get to go or not. Next, try splitting the park into 1/2 reservation and 1/2 first come first serve. Or have an area for reserved and an area for first come. Maybe a spot for local traffic and then a spot for those who are traveling great distances. So many RVs are being sold now and lots of local rv families just want a break from the city to fish, hike, bike for a week or so. There just are not enough local RV spots for that especially during June, July, August when school is out and families are trying to make a memory. Some rv people love the popular spots that are crowded and others don’t.
Maybe creating a database that all the campgrounds could access showing last minute cancelations and no shows. After 3 last minute cancelations or no shows the person would get put on a no rent list. Would probably have to be a subscription service of some sort.
There are reasons that people cancel at the last minute, but shouldn’t happen very often.
It’s easy. You have 8 hours to show up or call explaining why your late and when you will show up. After that you lose your money and the park can re-reserve the site.
Chuck is on the right path, I believe. However, many people do arrive late. I would recommend if you’re not in the reserved camp site by 0800 the next day all is forfeited. The campground then rents it to someone else.
This is good. There should be a specific time to either be in the camp site or call if will be late to hold it. No shows no call by dead line, you lose deposit. That’s at least as fair as hotel reservations.
Exactly!
This happens at a very popular lake near us that takes reservations 6 months out and is consistently booked solid all summer, then we go and the best sites are just empty, it’s highly annoying.
I agree Make it a policy there are no refunds for bad weather like private campgrounds do.
Give them till the day before they are suppose to arrive and let them cancel on line. Even by phone who carws if thers is an overlap between their refund and the sites being reservable again.
Then get the sites available on line quickly.
I know lots of people that would like to have them but cant book 6 months in advance.
Either no reservations, first come first serve or for a small fee they could sell their reservation to someone that actually wants to camp.
Selling their spots allows for their friends to get it even though they have spots reserved for the future. Then others do not get to camp. Do not agree to selling. No show, no money back. Allow 24 hours however, just in case.
Do what airlines do. 1. Over book because of no shows. 2. A credit use only up to so many days before reservation date to cancel. After that date no credit for a space. 3.No show. Lose your spot. Elvis has left the building. If its available again for next day. One pays again, because obviously no advance notice was given. And so need to purchase a spot allover again.
Keep a waiting list and if original bookers cancel give them half refund. If site books from waiting list they get the other half. Park gets their full booking fee and canceling party has the motivation to cancel. Also camp grounds need to allow people to sublease the site. I’m forced to book it for an entire week 6 months in advance if I want to camp knowing I can probably only camp 4 of the 7 days. The parks created this mess with their rigid universities booking system. Not the campers fault.
The waiting list sounds like a good solution. My concern with subleasing would be people trying to make several bookings and then leasing them out to someone who will pay more for a site if nothing else is available.
Go back to first-come, first served!! We used to be able to find campsites before the reservation system was implemented and it worked out much better, even when we did not arrive to the campground until late on a Friday. We should be able to have as many vehicles, boats and additional tents per site as we can fit, not just based on a one unit per fire pit basis, or with different rules for each state. The reservation computer systems are fraught with issues and availability on the system is never reflective of what you see at the campgrounds. Government workers should not be able to block out sites for friends and family. If the reservation system is not abolished, then keep in mind that we are all Americans and should not be paying non-resident fees nor be penalized with later eligibility, behind residents, when making reservations.
This is simple, if your check in is for Friday and you are not on site by Saturday morning without having contacted the park office – you are out! People who do this are selfish and annoying. Just because you are not getting a refund doesn’t mean someone else shouldn’t get to enjoy the site. I camp in the rain and the cold… if I didn’t show up for a reservation it is because I have no way of getting there. And in that case, I would be happy knowing someone else was getting to use it!
Add an option for refund if the site is rebooked. That would allow the site to be relisted for last minute people (like myself) to be able to take advantage of the opportunity. Granted, it would be a little harder to track and there is still risk involved to the one that cancels but it would be worth a shot.
Since there are is no ability to refund on short notice due to the financial burden; implement a policy, that if the camper doesn’t show and check in within 24 hours after the beginning of the reservation, they lose the site. If a would be camper arrives looking for a site, offer that “no show” site to them (because they are actually there!) Only after the site is confirmed and paid for by the camper who is actually there, refund the camper who had the original reservation.
To allow for unforseen circumstances, place in the policy the ability for the camper with the reservation to call ahead (within the 24 hours of reservation start) to inform the camp group staff that they will arrive but just a day or two or three late. Now the camp site can be given once again to a camper who is actually there those days. Once again the site fee can be refunded to the original camper.
In summary if you don’t show you lose your site. Maybe you get a refund, but maybe not.
In the case of no shows, the campsite should be forfeited after 24 hours and the site returned to the reservation system. It’s so frustrating to be unable to book a site, yet there are always multiple “reserved” sites sitting empty for days.
Absolutely!
If you don’t cancel, you get fined the amount of the reservation. I’m so tired of these inconsiderate you-know-whats!
Let people that are cancelling put the site on a second chance page and rent it out. They get half their money back and the parks get paid one and a half times for the space. Everyone is happy. If it doesn’t rent out they are just out the money.
Perhaps offering a voucher in exchange for a certain length of time if cancel within 24 hours . Things happen while traveling. I think the big boom has people more aware of empty sites. Can a person towing predict unsafe weather between points a and b? How about an unexpected event that diverts your attention to the emergency, not cancelling. Those who know ahead, don’t care, and shrug, nothing can sway them…lost cause.. Offering a voucher to encourage letting others know availability may help. If it’s the day if and they call, don’t charge the following nights…just the one. If I have to miss a play last minute, I must absorb the cost of ticket. I think this is fair. Just my two cents.
I am full time RVer, use it or lose it. Over the 4th of July the campground we stayed at had 8 full service hook up sites, only 2 we’re used no one called to cancel. If you do not use site you should loose full cost of your reservation and penalty fee of $50.00. I am so upset that gready people make people that play fair with the rules pay the price of no spots available.
For sure there should be a penalty fee for no,shows.
I get everyone’s frustrated by this, believe me I am also but devils advocate says “I paid for the spot, whether I use it or not” someone can’t be fined or penalized for not using a spot the way others believe they should. Plus why would the park care, it’s basically free money, less trash, electricity use, traffic. It’s the perfect money maker for them so don’t believe they are trying or gona fix it anytime soon.
Rent the site if it’s a no show.
If the original reservation holder shows up give them a refund minus a fee for administrative costs plus unrented time. If they want a site it’s whatever is available, then a wait list. Exceptional circumstances could be considered for a full refund.
How about if you don’t show up on the first day of your reservation, then you lose your reservation with no refund. Then make the campsite first come first served. Rich people abuse the system by making multiple reservations, some of which they seldom expect to use.
So true. I agree with losing your entire reservation with a 24 hour no show. Plus, do not allow a reservation for more than one week at a site. People can move on to another site. Plus limit the number of reservations per a season. I know of someone who reserves for a month along with her friends . Then she reserves another time as well. She and her friends have a system where they trade. This not allow others to camp. As well, she was talking about buying spots from Kijiji.
Her husband has a disability card and gets the spots half price. Then they give away weeks. Don’t know how they do it. But they do.
Here is another idea, only allow for a percentage of the sites to be reserved, not the entire campground! Less that 50%. When I was younger and camping with our family I only ever remember us reserving in private campgrounds.
For federal or state campgrounds, we always planned to be there mid week and arrived at the campground early! First come first serve!
Having all the sites reserved is obviously not working as expected. Sure the campground is getting it’s money to stay open, but eventually people are going to stop trying and then you lose the next generation of campers and it all goes under.
I totally agreed . I remember not reserving, and there was always campsites available. If a park was full, you would get directed to another that had availability.
We always got a spot. Nowadays, I don’t want to bother because campgrounds are always reserved, yet half empty.
If a camper doesn’t show up they should not be able to book at that campsite for 6 months or more.
If a site is reserved for multiple days and you dont show up by 9 pm the first day you lose the reservation completely regardless of reason and no refund. For single day reservations if you dont show up you get no refund and put on a list where 2 no shows gets you a year long suspension in all of that states state parks. They could also add a penalty fee of 100 dollars charged to the credit card in the event you dont show up.
Make them first come, first serve. Like the old days before technology got in the way.
Totally agree first come has worked good for a long time.
I think the policy should be the same as at a hotel. Date to get full refund is clear. No call and no arrival by a deadline and no refund. This hotel policy is standard and no big surprise.
The deadline for arrival or call is on websites, so anyone who still wants to use the camp site, calls in just like at a hotel to see if there are empty sites.
The deadline for call or check in should be no later than 5pm so it makes it worthwhile to come for those who have to travel a long distance.
No waiting’s lists, No partial refunds, the purpose of a deposit is to show intention. No hotel gives partial refunds or calls people on a waiting list. State parks require major upkeep don’t add more work.
I completely agree with Elizabeth Ellis, great way to handle this.
We are now traveling across the USA a lot to see the places we read about during our working careers. Some state parks only allow reservations 3 days in advance, but that restricts our freedom to make unplanned stops at points of interest or take extra time at a stop. Our day is now determined on the next campsite. This is very frustrating and not the way we envisioned our trips around the USA. I dont like reservations at all, but if campgrounds must reserve sites they should save 1/3 of the sites for walk ins. I also think reservations should only be taken a maximum of 1-2 days in advance to limit cancellations. Finally, all public, private, state, national campsite bookings, reservations, and cancellations should be done through one centralized App (like reservamerica) and limit the fees.
This makes too much sense!
Offer 20% refund up to the time of your reservation. Set a wait-list. After a couple of hours in the case of a no-show, offer the place to someone else. It is a no-brainer.
Maybe offer part refund for notifying the park that you can’t make the reservation.
Things happen in life so you can not make reservations. A call or email would be kind. However it doesn’t always happen. I would say. 1/2 back if cancelled 2 weeks or more before. Nothing after that. If you do not show up by 5a.m. next morning the site turns into a first come. Seems fair to me.
Trish
I whole heartedly agree with you on this
Agree. Trying to be “fair” to people who do not know what fair play is, turning yourself into a pretzel and wrapping yourself in red tape takes all the enjoyment out of managing a campground. The staff gets frazzled, has to take flak from the entitled class, gets sour and quits. You need a comoutercengineer to set up a reservation system that tries to head off every ripple of displeasure …
If it were me, the only sites available for advance reservation would be under 5 feet of water…
How about adding an incentive for people cancelling (even if they get no refund) without costing the campground (or at least not cost them now). This way a truly cancelled site can be rented to another person last minute who wants it or walk-ins etc.
I think the incentive should be something like a preferred booking ability for their next booking or a 10% discount on their next booking. The 10% should be affordable if the site is able to resell the cancelled site without giving refund (effectively the campground would get paid double for sites that get cancelled vs. no-show, which could easily find a future discount for the courtesy that the original booker showed by actually cancelling vs just not showing up).
The spirit of camping needs to also be community and not just personal convenience so a culture that encourages “doing the right thing” can help to; but that’s less controllable…
The campgrounds could add an online check in option to their website allowing guest same day check in prior to arrival. This could also allow the guest to inform the park if they are going to be delayed arriving so they don’t loose their campground, you still pay for the night but you don’t loose your site, it could also allow for them to cancel completely releasing the site so someone else can reserve it. I don’t see any reason why there can’t be a flat rate last minute cancellation charge in order to issue a full refund prior to day of arrival and for same day cancellations charge for the one night plus the fee but refund the remaining balance. I recently stayed for 14 nights for $560 but couldn’t make the first night, I didn’t feel like I should have been refunded for the first night but had I needed to cancel the whole trip I would have at least expect most of my payment back considering the site would be able to be rented out still.
I call bs! Many of the premium sites are reserved by BOTS to be sold by scalpers..
Tried for over a year to get a premium beach site.. @12:00:01 when it opens, used PC and 2 phones. Log on, already reserved.
Follow camping groups.. Post ” can’t use our reservation, dm if interested” wow just what we wanted… DMed, they wanted a big profit.. ok thinking maybe just one idiot. Saw a few similar posts on different camping groups. Just for grins, contacted.. Guess what, same thing. Looking for a profit. Most don’t allow changing names either. Well one guy gave it up. We inquired about that policy, he said quote “use my name, they don’t check, we do it all the time”… All the time?!?!!
Agree. Would tamper proof captchas catch them?
Charge a penalty for no shows!
I like idea of making some portion of the sites first come, first serve but they should be limited to one or two day night stays.
But I feel strongly that if you are a no show, you get a hefty charge. If you cancel 7 days in advance full refund. Less than 7 days, partial refund If you cancel day of reservation, No refund, but no added penalty. However If you don’t attempt to cancel, and you are a no show, you should be charged an extra 100.00 or more for the loss of use to others. Also if you have a multi day reservation and you don’t show or cancel , on day 1, you should also lose the rest of your days and they are opened up to other users. People are reserving spots using computer bots and then just not showing up because they can afford it! There Needs to be a penalty for taking away opportunity for others.
It’s for the same reason most beachfront and mountain condos/homes are empty. We keep adding people to the wealthy class. Tax cuts and favorable inheritance laws brought on by Republicans are causing more entitled rich folks whom do not care about others(the ones that made their wealth possible). We are quickly becoming 2 social classes trying to utilize the same natural resources. We should say if you miss the first day entirely, your reservation goes to someone else.
Greed knows no party
I think if campgrounds charged a deposit refunded in full when you check in then do site refunds as they are now then no shows would be paying for not showing up camp would make more money. It would not cost more to camp and people would be more inclined to show up on dates they reserved also may think harder about if they are going to reserve. Doesn’t cost more to camp camp will make more money and more sites will be full
Add a hefty $200 no cancellation policy. You need to make it worthwhile for the person to call and cancel. People think this is new. 25 years ago we drove all around Colorado and every campground was “full” but empty even on the weekends. Several times it was late and we were tired so we just camped in a empty reserved spot and left in the morning. Once we just pulled over and camped off the road. I remember getting up in the morning and seeing all the beautiful flowers around our tent. We didn’t know it but we were just outside of Crested Butte, CO.
I. Send confirmations 24 hours before with a link to cancel…
2 No show after 24 hours means reservation is canceled
3. Allow changes to the reservation at any time including the day of.
4 Our parks are a national treasure… hire more people to manage the sites
5. More $$$ for parks
6. 35% first come 1st served Sites
Perhaps offer a partial refund if, and only if, the site that gets cancels gets rebooked by someone else. This way the park doesn’t lose any money, because they only have to pay out of they get another booking to cover the cost. It would encourage people to cancel because it gives them a chance of getting some money back.
I’d say a chance of a 50% refund would persuade most people to do the online admin.
I think the more affluent vacationers with huge hard-to-find-a-spot-for rigs care nothing about refunds or penalties. They just want what they want and the only thing that will stop them is forfeiting the no-show spot.
There is a policy that “Campers who do not show up by 12 noon the day following the first night’s reservation will forfeit all payments and campsite will become available for first-come, first-served or new reservation.”
This is a fair policy, but the Camp Hosts don’t have the authority to enforce it and often leave the campsite “reserved”.
From what I have read, reservation systems are flooded not by real people but by bots programmed by people who want to make sure all their options are covered regardless. They basically monopolize the process. Are captchas in place that require a human brain to answer???
For people who do not show up for their reserved site(multiple day booking) within the first 24 hours , they forfeit the remainder of the reservation and the site goes up for first come first serve.
If no one shows after two days, the site should be available to first come first serve. If the folks with reservation finally show up, only refund the days the first come first serve people have it.
The camp loses no money and the folks with reservation learn a lesson. That being don’t reserve things you may or may not use.
If people aren’t responsible for canceling a reservation they should be restricted from making any other reservations for 6 months or pay a fee of $100.00 to restore their ability to make reservations. If this happens repeatedly, the penalty increases.
I agree with Robert!
Oooh, I like this one. It might work
Require first day occupancy or the reserved site turns into first come, first served. Give camp hosts the latitude and authority to make these kind of decisions.
We are sitting with buying a different camper last year and have used it once in 2 years. No SITES available. I like how they did in the past only so many sites are reservable. You could check and we could always get a spot on the unreserved spots. We are very upset because we like the state parks and corp of engineer park at cross lake MN and we are retired and on a fixed budget have the discount pass what good is it. We like these parks because they aren’t so commercial.
I agree we have a golden age pass but what good is it if you can never get a reservation. They also loose money because if there is a no show they won’t let anyone in unless they have a reservation. We like to travel and stop when we get tired and the state and national campgrounds won’t let you stay if you don’t have a reservation so the government looses money there also if they have empty sites.
Have more first come first served sites.
Only refund if the campsite is re-rented for the time originally reserved, since ” time is of the essence ” or a legal term stressing that time needed to refill cancelations is important. This stresses to anyone requesting a confirmed reservation that easiest possible notification I’d in everyone (especially their own) best interest.
Half of the more desirable camping spots in our campground don’t have electrical. We tent camp and had a tent ruined in a bad storm. A tree got hit by lightning right beside a tent that night. We are lucky to be alive. We will never camp in the rain again! We are getting older and would love a camper but we can’t afford it! We need the electrical sites to blow up beds plug in boat batteries etc. We have asked our campground to please get more electrical sites. Sometimes in bad weather we don’t sleep there We just have fires and eat there when it’s not raining. Our campground hosts do a great job and a huge amt of work!
Make it policy for reserved campers, if res for 7days,or more no less than 4, day’s paid not ref, if 14 day’s res 5days not ref, if they use 3 of the first 7and don’t return or don’t intend to 1ref the others aloted in 1day stays to other campers staying for not less than 3d&n leftovers may be given to those who want 1,2 more day’s . I know it’s probably not that easy but, some give on both sides nobody really loses out things happen and one should not have to bear all, sounds fair to all involved Bryan Townley
People who reserve spots and can’t go do not want the park to double up on money if they don’t get their refund. In my opinion, the park should have some sort of list for people who want to reserve a spot and can’t because there isn’t one available that they can put there name on. The park can let people know when they reserve, that if for some reason they can’t use the spot to let the park know and they can go to the list. Then if that spot gets reserved off the list, the first group gets their refund. If it doesn’t get filled they don’t get their refund. A place we frequent, does that. If they are full and we want a spot, they put our name on the list for when someone cancels. That way everyone wins.
Our state parks also has wait lists. In my most recent case, we had bad weather right up to the minute of checkin. We were there at the park but left. The next day found out from the park ranger someone squatted at my reserved spot.
My husband & I are RVers & have personally experienced places with numerous empty sites. Lately it is getting harder & harder to find spots to reserve.. .even months in advance.
ALL RV parks should put in their policies that, if the renter does not show up within 48 hrs. after their scheduled arrival time, the lot is released to be rented to someone else & NO refund is due to them.
This would prevent so many empty spots & allow parks/camps to have better income for staffing & maintenance purposes.
Agree 95 %, just believe that after the first 24 hours without show or a call explaining the site should be released without refund and made available to some that can use it.
We are retirees that so looked forward to have time to RV and not be able to get a site, or taking the lesser site and seeing the better ones empty
The parks should make any site not occupied the first night reserved, available on a first come first served basis to the public. If people didn’t have the courtesy to cancel, then no refund. I’ve seen the same thing in the State parks in CA.
I definitely agree that the no shows definitely should be charged for that day and the reservation is from then out fully cancelled. I am sure everyone would agree that since there is such a high demand for camping spots that there should be bigger penalties for someone who makes the reservation does not show up.
Make it so if someone cancels within 4 days, the get 50% refund IF someone picks up that spot (or a more complex system could be developed based on first to cancel, first to partial refund).
This encourages people to call or stay in contact with the campsite. Campsite would then get 150% of normal on the spot. Last minute people have a shot at finding a place.
The key is maintaining the communication between camper & campsite.
First day occupation, no show, no cancelation then the site goes first come first serve. they also forfeit a days camp fee. Lots of people will reserve spots with only a maybe planning to show up and they do this at several parks for the same time slots.
I would suggest that after midnight the 1st or 2nd day, the reservation should be cancelled and put back into circulation unless they contact saying late arrival. Hotels do this ALL the time.
I suggest that they
1 explain in their reservation verbiage that theres a big demand and ask in advance that they be courteous
2 send out an auto reminder email a week or so before the reservation date and
3 ask/require people to cancel online 1-5 days before their reservation starts if they’re not coming. They could incentivize them with a small refund ($10?) or maybe a ($20?) credit toward another reservation. The park ought to be able to do that if they know they’ll be able to get someone else for the site.
Sad that this would be needed but…
Stop taking reservations, first come first serve and no saving sites for someone who is not there. It’s simple people understand it, and just pay as they come. No refunds needed. Even if they leave early no refund.
The first come first serve gives everyone a chance. If you do take reservations make a last minute cancellation none refundable plus charge 20 $ fee. That will make people more responsible for cancelling on time to get a full refund like 2 weeks or more in advance. I still like the first come first serve. It’s simple and might cut back on Labor
Let campers cancel with the contingency that they only get a refund if their site is resold. This was the policy we had at a small town hotel when I was in college. This way the camp site doesn’t lose money, and the campers have a small chance of getting their money back.
Alternate option is a partial refund equal to the profit the campground would make. Keep some for overhead costs so the campsite isn’t out any money, just not making profit on it either. Then they can still resell the site if someone else wants it and almost double dip.
First come first served. Problem solved.
My wife and I just had an experience with this exact problem on a recent camping trip. The site we were camped on was definitely not our first preference, but seemed to be the last choice left in a completely sold out State Park. As we explored the park over the weekend, we saw that more than half of the sites were empty, including many where we would have preferred to use. I can understand that the campgrounds can’t afford to give full refunds for last minute cancellations but perhaps at least giving partial refunds for cancellations up to 2 days in advance might encourage more people to cancel. Then the campgrounds can open the sites up again for first come, first served availability.
Camping with my mom and dad back in the 60’s up into the 90’s we camped with no reservations..we travel extensively through all the states and never had a problem.. I’d vote for no more reservations.
Set the system to text check “confirm” the day of reservation otherwise the site will be opened to others. BOLD letters stating “confirmation required on reserved day” upon making the reservation.
How about a 50% non refundable deposit? If you’re a jerk and book 4 campsites, you’ll have to pay for 2 but can only use 1……I guarantee you it will stop.
What about a future discount for the courtesy of a call vs a no-show? This is a better chance of a rebook a visit plus a chance to book the site immediately.
Offer the camper who reserved the site a full refund if their cancelation results in the site being picked up by someone else. If it doesn’t get picked up offer a small refund or no refund, but the opportunity to get a full refund should another camper puck up the site should be encouragement enough to get the initial camper to put their cancelation in
We were at Apgar Campground in Glacier National Park for 4 nights over the 4th of July. Should be the busiest time, right? 50% of the campsites were empty even though100% reserved/full. When we reserved our site 4 months earlier, we could only get one site for 2 nights and then had to pack up and move to another less desirable site for the next 2 nights. No one even came to full the site we had vacated that was reserved.
My suggested solution is that if people don’t show up within 24 hours of the check-in start time of their reservation, then the entire reservation is cancelled WITHOUT a refund. People should have the decency to cancel (or at least call to alert the staff that you’ll be delayed if you have a mech problem or whatever caused the delay) or have their reservation cancelled for them. The campground can then sell the campsite twice and recoup some money. If you’re not going to cancel your reservation anyway, then you forfeit your campsite fee regardless.
I don’t really have a beef with the park’s side of things RE revenue. They *are* a business, so to speak. It seems like it would be fair to implement these rules:
1) Site will be released by <time of day> if you are a no-show and haven’t notified the park by <noon> of your arrival day that you’ll be arriving late (i.e. after hours that day OR the next day). No refunds.
2) Staggered refund policy for cancellations (ie. full refund up to two weeks prior to arrival day, 1/2 refund for one week to two weeks of your arrival, and no refund if you are within 1 week of arrival. Cancelled sites can be rebooked. If cancelled site is rebooked, full refund given for each day site is booked.
Easy. If the campsite isn’t occupied by 10am after the first night the reservation is cancelled. Now available.
Have a website for private resale of reservations Like stubhub or Ticketmaster.
Raise the camping rates AND expand the cancellation policy. Pays for itself and since there is more money on the line, more will cancel. Especially on RV sites. If they can afford an RV, they can afford an extra $5-10 bucks. There are more campers than campsites, and everything else has gone up, public sites are going to have to as well.
Also, if a site is booked for a week and there is a no show the first night with no call, open the site for the rest of the time. This should be standard policy everywhere. If it is on the website, and on the email confirmation, there is no reason people can’t call. My 94 year old mother had a cell phone.
Create a method for the original reservist to be provided a full refund when they notify authorities they want to cancel and if, their site can be re- rented in full then they would receive a full refund. Then charge a fair fee to offer this service. Not only to the original renter (to be able to get out of their lease) but also a fee to the new renter, which most would be happy to pay a few bucks extra to be able to get to go camping.
You should allow people to show up and take the empty campsites if the people haven’t checked in by a certain time. Include this as a caveat when people make reservations so they know what to expect. You can be nice and allow people to confirm their reservations online. But they have to do it on the day of their reservation. Let people know what the percentage is currently are people not showing up so that they know whether it’s worth trying to be on standby. You can encourage the no-shows to indicate they will be no shows by telling them that if someone reserves the campsite after they’ve indicated a no-show then that portion will be refunded to them. And then you let the blue campers cover the cost of the site. Hopefully this will encourage the original campers to disclose that they won’t be there
Great idea! Incentive is key.
I was going to suggest similar. It’s beneficial to everyone. No matter what, the site will be paid for and used.
Call the campers a week in advance to see if their coming or not and have a list of people who may want 5he sites.
We see it at Grayton Beach state Park in Florida in ridiculous amounts. The reservations are almost impossible to get unless they’re booked straight up 8 AM 11 months out and you can book 2 weeks at a time. But if you roll through the park any given day only 25% of the sites are occupied. It is infuriating! My suggestion is for the camper to forfeit their site after two nights of it sitting unoccupied No show no campsite!
NO REFUNDS…PERIOD…only by death certificate
I LIKE IT!!!!!
Many people have already said similar things. But I think there should be a started policy that if you do not show up on the first day and do not notify the campground, the reservation should be cancelled. Second, there should be an option to cancel late (including on the day of arrival) and, if the site is paid for by another camper during any portion of the original reservation, a partial (say, 50%) refund could be issued. Together these would encourage timely arrival and courteous notification.
Here’s an idea. It would involve updating the reservation program. Why not send out messages a few days and then a day in advance of booking date to those who have made reservations… with the option to put in a cancellation request. The reservation would them open up for other would-be-campers to see. If someone else books, the money goes back to the original site booker (or minus a 5% admin fee). It’s completely doable and gives The original Booker motivation to put in a cancellation request.
Explain in refund policy that a refund will be issued if the space is re-rented.
Simple— You must confirm your reservation the day prior to first day of reservation. My dentist and doctor have automated programs programs for this. No confirmation and reservation and fees are forfeited. If confirmed and still no show, fees are forfeited and site available as Ff next day.The site becomes available as FF.
I have complained and offered various solutions to this problem for many years. Most agencies don’t care. They aren’t really concerned with serving the people. I have seen a full California State Park 100% empty but marked as full. I found out a company had reserved the entire campground and cancelled their function but did not bother cancelling. To really open up utilization of these many empty sites and provide more opportunity for the public to access their land,50% of the sites in popular public campgrounds should be taken out of the reservation system and made available on a first come first serve basis.
I don’t think there should be refunds issued if a site is cancelled within 7 days of arrival date. I think this is a good policy. However, I would consider issuing a full refund if the site gets re-booked. People are no showing because they know they won’t get their money back.
At least if there’s a possibility of a full refund they’ll cancel & take their chances. The campground is still getting the same amount of $ from the original reservation if the site gets re-booked. For no shows charge an extra % of the total stay fee. Credit cards are on file. Should be automatic to charge extra for those that are no-shows.
I get it.. you don’t want to refund people’s money.. but there’s this whole other option that you could do which is to give people a credit towards a different reservation in the future…
Like if they cancel in the last 3 days you won’t refund to their money but you will give them a 50% credit towards a future reservation…
And they could use that 50% credit to book up to 3 months in advance but they would have to pay the other 50% before the last 30 days or lose their reservation and lose their credit.
Of course you don’t want to give them a cash refund at that point but you could even skew the various refund points so that maybe the first one is 100% refund the next one’s a 75% refund the next one is a 50% refund and then there’s even a 25% refund.. until the last three or five days and then it’s a 50% credit towards the future.
And if people don’t check in by the end of the first day they lose their site preference. If they show up later they get whatever is left. 💜
Stop allowing reservations all together
Why not seta time say 2 pm after which a reserved does is available on a first come basis. The policy can include an extension beyond 2 pm if the person holding the reservation calls on the day of to notify campground of a late arrival.
we always tell a campground we will be arriving late as most time we can’t leave work early to arrive by 2 pm. I can’t think of a time we have ever been in prior to 4-8 pm on most weekends we have camped. I thought this was normal ettiqute when making reservations knowning we would arrive after hours.
It doesn’t take much effort to cancel, and it is very inconsiderate not to do so just because you aren’t getting a refund. No shows who don’t cancel, should have all future reservations already made through the system canceled (someone else will no doubt grab the spot as soon as it is available, so no loss to the park service) and not be blocked from making another reservation for 6 months. It will make a bigger dent in the plans of those who book multiple sites at once, and eliminate the reservation-making bots altogether. The no shows want to camp too, so limiting their access in the same way they have limited others’, is a harsher penalty than a fine. If they can afford to skip out on a reserved spot, no fine will deter them, and the unused space will remain unused.
I meant to say they should be blocked from making future reservations for 6 months.
YES I AGREE
I AGREE 100%
I went camping last summer and every camp site by the water was reserved and no one was there the hole night ridiculous..one should be able to resale there unused site by posting it back on line as a cancel and if someone wants it they purchase it if it don’t sell they are they out the money either way a win win for the camp ground
Anybody reserving a site should be charged 100 on booking with refund only if canceled 7 days in advance otherwise you lose your money. If you want to play you have to pay
I suggest a deposit that is only forfeit if they “no show” and leave their site reserved.
Easy! Create a waiting list of folks who want campsites for certain dates. Send them an email when someone “cancels” past the refund stage to see if they still want those dates. They sign up and pay the cost.
If no one picks it up, then the parks keeps the original fee. If someone does pick it up then the park should keep a small percent of the original camper plus the new camper rate. 110% for the park.
I just had to do this. I knew I was paying for two nights, which was the minimum anyway.
It was horrible weather. I already knew I wasn’t staying the second night but ended up not staying at all. I didn’t bother to ask for a refund. It was my choice and I paid. If the parks want the nights or space back then offer a refund. Otherwise, I paid for two nights.
This may be a stretch and hard to do, but to encourage communication from those who leave early or change their minds due to weather, it should be an option to get a partial refund only if the site they forfeited is filled. This allows the sites to get a little extra since they essentially charge two groups for the same site on the same day, it rewards the one who communicates to the campgrounds that they don’t need the site anymore, and it opens reserved sites back up to first come first serve until the next reservation
how about having a cancelation policy that would allow one to receive a refund if, they cancel their site and allow it to be rebooked, and sold. Then the original camper would then receive some type of a refund.
Allow campers to post / sell there sites on something like CashOrTrade (it’s a concert ticket website – you can’t sell for more than face value). I could buy someone’s camp site, it gets transferred to me, seller gets a full “refund”, camp site gets used everyone is happy. On CashOrTrade seller and buyers are rated so no scams and the financial transaction is safe (goes into escrow).
Enter the Camp Ground in CashOrTrade like a concert venue, the framework for the system is already in place – just get the word out, and make reservations transferable.
Yes
There would have to be restrictions such as no selling for more than you paid. Otherwise, people would scoop up all the sites to resell at a profit
In order to make the system work, everyone needs incentives to use it. If the park can’t afford a financial incentive for cancelling promptly, they need to shift the cost burden. I was going to suggest a no-show fee, but this idea is better for campers and uses existing infrastructure.
Build into the online reservation system a way to “sell” your reserved site once you’re past the full refund time. That way people going to reserve online or calling to reserve can buy last minute cancellations. It protects the campground because if no one buys the spot then the last minute cancellers still need to pay, but incentives those people to give up the spot and let the campground know they won’t be there.
No way! Then people will be buying up campsites by the dozens and then auctioning them off at triple the price.
I totally agree with this statement.
There could be a requirement that the credit card used online must be presented when claiming the reservation; that’s what some hotels do.
Totally agree! Way to easy to scam the system! Really bad idea..it’s bad enough now.
Hehe Here comes Black Rock!!
No refunds unless the canceled site gets rented out for the same dates.
This is what I came here to say. Ask for a refund in that four day window and open up the reservation. If any of the days get reserved you get a partial refund. If they don’t, you’re out of luck.
There could also be waiting lists for desirable spots.
You get a deposit or credit or debit card to hold the campsite for selected date, if reservation holder does not show or cancels, the deposit. Should not be refunded at all! if they arrive either credit it towards thier stay or refund it upon leaving if they leave early you keep the deposit in cases of special circumstances (a death in the family ) should be left to the managers discretion
Occupy the site within 24 hours or forfeit the site. No refund. If a reliable communication system can be trusted between campers and the host: then a call from the camper requesting the reservation stays in their name could be an option. This allows for car trouble or bad travel weather. But no call, no show should mean no reservation. These sites are too valuable a resource to be wasted.
This!!
This is a good way to serve the public! A NO SHOW should lose their spot. Many campers travel long distances to enjoy the outdoors.
Good suggestion!!
Like it
Many locations have this rule in the fine print. However, the parks do not actually do it.
100% this!!!
We have camped several times this summer with reservations booked to find an empty “reserved” camp sites all around us with no one to be found. We would’ve booked longer if we knew had the ability to do so.
Yes! 100%
Double prices. Cancel 7 days prior for 50% refund. No cancellation and No show ….No refund. 3 strikes and not allowed to book again. Open site up for another after first day no show.
Love this one! Yes!!
Do what a few COE parks do in Wisconsin: you reserve, you are there, or if not, you are still charged full reservations and put on a list for future to not reserve. No excuses.
I like it!
Have a way to confirm site. If no show or no communication by 12noon the next day open spot to others. Maybe make 75% of slots reservable, and have others First come or open to reservations a week before.
Wow, there are many fantastic solutions presented in the comments! I’m sure many of these have been presented to various administrations for years, yet the problem persists. Please, let’s persist in attempting to rectify this problem. Continue to reach out to elected officials and keep the problem publicized with letters to the editor, etc. Thank-you.
I love this comment!!! I truly do!!! There is no one size fits all solution. Be flexible! You don’t have a crystal ball when vacationing, work with people
Let’s not have any “elected officials,” involved in our camping!! Keep camping American! Just read the cancellation agreements and deal with it folks. Also…I’ve been out and about, all campgrounds we have seen are FULL FULL FULL, early seen an empty sire…
Find a way to keep traveling America!! Defy big government trying to limit our travel, work part time extra jobs if you need to…but don’t let them stop you with their gas prices…live Free, and vote this year for only those who support small government and big pro America!
First come, first serve!!!
That wouldn’t work for me. We took two long trips West and had to know we had a place to stay each night.
Excellent idea! Online reservation is stupid. And a pain in the ass!
I came down with stomach flu just before 2 nites reserved at 2 different CA state parks by the ocean. I called to cancel, knowing that I would not get a refund. But I was told that there would be a fee If I cancelled, in addition to losing my 2 nights. I told them not to cancel, and I was a no show!
I’m sure that’s a big reason for this problem. I would have done the exact same thing!
There should be a way for others to use the site last minute & u could get your $ back if someone can. The campers who would like your spot are just as frustrated !
I had a reservation for last week and then came down with COVID. My husband then got COVID. I was glad we could cancel and get a partial refund.
Which is why I quit double dipping like that. We charged to cancel only if we were processing a refund.
If you can’t make it to your campsite on time then it gets offered to the next person inline. No refunds no excuses! There is more and more people getting into RV’S or Van life because of the insane rental prices so they are turning to RV living full-time. The government needs to step up and start building RV sites for full time RVers instead of our streets.
Require a reservation deadline time if it is not met the reservation is forfeited and somebody who shows up for a walk-in could have it
Easy to fix!
If the site is not filled within 24-hours of ‘check-in’ date and no communication has been received from the reserving party, re-list it!
-Return to first come first serve.
-Shorten the lead time for reservations.
-Charge a fee for not showing up or canceling.
-No show no cancel, forfeit any refund
-If Site empty 2 nights of three or more reservation, rent it out for the third night and beyond on first come first serve till the end of that reservation. State this in the conditions for reserving.
First of all this should all be done by an app or third party like ticketmaster. Charge them 200 dollar deposit + Campsite fees.
If they cancel the day before they get all their money back, and as soon as a cancelation pops up the app sends a notification to a waiting list. First one to book gets the spot.
If they don’t show up they lose 200 plus campsite fees.
If they show up the 200 is refunded.
No refunds for leaving early or weather events and no refunds for rain.
Do sections, 30% first come first serve, 30% refundable reservation but with rules and the rest canceled in less then three days or no show …no refund and lose the spot And lose the chance to make reservations in future so no repeat offenders
If someone hasn’t che checked in or notified the operator that they will be coming late the spot should be made available on a first come first serve basis. There are lots of traveling campers that end up staying overnight at store parking lots or rest stops because they don’t know their exact timing or all campsites are booked.
I would try what the university of Florida does for sports tickets that are not going to be used. They basically sell them online with the seller getting back about a 75percent refund and the rest financing the system and providing some return on investment…
After 24 hrs the campsite reverts to first come first serve, there are far too few of those anyway. Partial refunds for late cancellations, no refund for no shows. The whole reservation system needs a serious rework. It’s not easy to make a reservation from a phone in an area without reception, yet some parks require online reservations. So even if you arrive to a campground and there’s been cancellations, you can’t book a site unless you go online. And, if you’re under staffed, make the jobs more appealing. Staying in campgrounds is expensive, being in nature is necessary for humans to avoid insanity. Figure it out.
The campground needs to create an electronic cancellation pending list. As new campers call to reserve a spot the campground can rent out that cancellation pending spot and give the cancelling customer their money back less a small reasonable processing fee… Win win
So unless you have on-site staff our a full-time campground host with Internet access and the ability to get into the system to cancel no-shows and make unoccupied sites available for reservations or first-come campers, most of these suggestions don’t work. The answer really is to get rid of the online reservation system entirely, and make everything first-come and self-pay. This is the way most developed BLM campgrounds out west work, and it works pretty well
Reservations should be full payment if you cancel 7 days in advance you get 90% refund 10% for administration fee if you cancel for legitimate good cause you get a credit towards a future site but if you just no show you should be blocked from making any future reservation I have had to cancel with less than 7 days and knew I wouldn’t get a refund but I still called and cancelled so someone else could use the site because it’s the right thing to do
Also stop renting the Handicap spots out to none handicap people just because the campground is full! Leave those for use that need them!!!!
If you cancel after the refund period ends but the spot ends up being used and paid for by someone else, you get your refund. If no one uses the site, you don’t. Simple.
We need the option of first come first serve! At our local Corps campground, this had been an option in a designated loop for over 20 years. When COVID began this option was eliminated, and it truly is a disservice to locals.
If you reserve a site and not only fail to show up, but also fail to communicate with the people running the park regarding your intentions one way or the other, then your site should be rented out for or maybe six hours after your appointed check-in time.
Just eliminate reservations period. First come first served, like it use to be years ago…much funner times
If the camp is able to make a last-minute reservation to fill that space, then the original reservation may be refunded. This way, people are getting a spot and those not arriving get refunded
Regarding the empty no show campsites. I too have so wanted to solve this issue. Seems like there could be a win win, but assuming it’s a bit like insurance. Paid for & unused is the highest form of profit. This is how I’d structure a solution Thru technology if possible, but could start with people managing it. The parks could include an up front opt in agreement that welcomes the opportunity to receive offers for their reservation. Not insurance, but best chance for refund should things change. Park sends email when an offer’s made on their site. They can accept or decline. If accepted the offeror pays an additional fee to the park, on top of the regular fee. The original party gets refunded. Instead of relying on the original party to cancel due to little benefit, the people who opt in for the service receive offers they can accept or decline. If hey can’t go, they get $ back. The park earns more $ overall, happy refunded & happy replacement campers. More capacity data too.
Put it up for rebooking. If it’s rebooked, the original booking gets a refund, if it isn’t, they dont.
I suggest that the park introduce a waiting list. Is a reservation cancels and there is something in the waiting list, the tension told over to the new party. If no one is in the waiting list, then the original party is still obligated. This gives the original party a chance of getting their money back, but keeps the park whole.
Option to lessen empty lots: give partial refund to cancellations IF rebooked…rewards families who communicate their change of plans while opens the spot for another family AND the campsite gains extra $ from partial refund (vs whole refund). It’s a win-win-win.
With the technology we have today, there is no reason that a person could post a cancelation request and if someone else pays for the sight, then refund the person canceling.
A logical policy and simple notice upon reservation booking. If you reserve the site and need to cancel for any reason AND want a refund, you must notify the park within 3 days of arrival. If a campsite is reserved and the campers no show/no call within 24 hours of arrival date then the reservation is cancelled without refund and the site made available to everyone else.
Oddly, more campgrounds or sites may be part of the answer. That, or a change to the reservation system where dates/sites are released over time, not all at once. Reservation mania in April forces us to grab whatever we can, whether our plans are confirmed or not. If there was a greater chance of finding a spot closer to the dates we can actually get out, it might change things.
Put a clause in the reservation system if you are not checked into your reserved site by the end of the second day of a week long reservation you forfeit the spot. If the reservation is shorter, base the allowable time to occupy the spot at the end of the first day.
This all comes down to what used to be called common courtesy. If you do not think that a simple phone call is the right thing to do then you lose everything you have invested in reserving the site. They then reap what they sow. I am sure if the no show, no call folks were treated like they treat others, you would be hearing from their attorney in a matter of hours. I like the idea of no call – no show by mid afternoon and the site is available for the full term of the original reservaton on a first come first served basis with the inconsiderate camper sustaining a complete loss of any deposit or prepayment.
Your reserved site for your entire stay will not be held for you beyond 4pm on Day One unless you telephone this number between 3pm and 4pm to give your ETA.
No refunds.
First choice would be NO more reservations at all. Second choice would be only the back 40 sites can be reserved and the rest (ALL of the prime sites) would be first come first serve the way it used to be and the way it should be. I have all but given up on camping because of the reservation system and I am extremely frustrated by the empty reserved sites.
Another option would be if a reserved site is not occupied by say 8pm or maybe the following morning it becomes fair game for anyone who shows up.
Once again… my first choice would be first come first serve with zero reservations. Anyone needing to reserve can go to privately owned campgrounds and leave the government sites for those of us that will actually show up.
3 reserved sites the rest first come first serve
Just eliminate the reservation system if it’s going to be that much of a hassle. Make it first come first served. Make it a pay for use site and charge a small fee for entry for everyone to help cover park expenses. The people who ACTUALLY go out and camp should reap the rewards.
OR….make it some ridiculous hefty fine ($200) that they have to put up and no refund if you cancel less than 48 hrs.
I myself have always thought that campgrounds should be first come first served. Yeah parks get there money by reserved spots. That fine and dandy, but when the guest calls and cancels or just not show up. Then it should be fair game, that’s double the money in the pot for the park. Instead of the spot setting empty for the remainder or even first part of said renter who hasn’t shown face because of bad weather or plain out forgetting to call and cancel. It’s not the park’s fault. But you have the next body willing and ready to enjoy what the park has to offer. Either you make ur money or keep half due to a no show or cancelation, or better yet make there money and the one’s money standing in front of you for a couple quick days. I’ve been camping for quite sum time now and have set right next to spots that where rented and no one showed. It sat empty for my entire stay. ( A friend none the less was the culprit.) First come first served should be the motto.
I tried to cancel but was told by reservation.com that it was to late to get a refund. I wanted to let them no that I will not be coming and they gave me the ranger phone number in that district to let know. The ranger had no way of letting anyone know that the site was available. Frustrating!
Suggestion: to have a way to cancel refund or not so that the information gets to the camp host. Also make the cancellation process have a refund system after a certain amount of days with a point system that would go towards the next reservation in the system. It would give those an incentive to make a cancellation refund days allowed or a refund with points towards the next reservation.
I think if somebody with reservations don’t show,on the first day the site is open to first come first serve, also if repeat offenders continue to not show don’t allow them to reserve sites ,generate a no reserve status for those that continue to not show
I remember first come first serve. Oldie but goodie.
Its Simple….if the campers cancel before 7 days they get a full refund. If they cancel after 7 days but before check-in and the site gets rented by someone else they get 80% refund and the campground keeps 20% due to short notice. If the spot doesn’t get rented they don’t get refunded at all. If the check in is at like 12pm and the campground doesn’t hear from them by like 7pm they lose their reservation. If the site is rented after that they get a 50% refund for each night its rented. Each night its not rented they don’t get refunded at all. The nights that they don’t get refunded at all the campground must send them time stamped pics to show it sat empty so they are not owed a refund. This should be a good insensitive to keep the line of communication open so no spots sit empty and gives the campground money for the extra work they had to do to fill the spot. I hope this makes sense and I covered everything. Any questions just ask.
Cancellations within a certain time give partial refund to the person cancelling, then opens up campsites at a discount to new potential occupants where the combination of half booking fee and discount would be equal or slightly more than the regular fee.
The discount would encourage last minute reservations and the extra fee difference would help cover the overhead and extra effort to run and maintain this program
They should add a sell your spot to there website so someone could buy the spot from the person who reserved it and charge a 5 dollar processing fee. Win win.
Not a bad idea as long as there was no way to make money on the resale. Otherwise there would be more KAOS.
What I would do is those people that have reserved a spot and paid for it, require them to call Within 48 Hours of their scheduled arrival or lose it and if they do not call to confirm then rent them out to someone else. If the original campers want a refund then give them just your normal amount that you would if they had not shown up. That way you don’t lose any money and actually increase your money input and make the people happy that wants that spot. Win win
Have a cancellation process for a full refund minus 10% if the site renter cancels in advance AND the site be rented. If not regular rules apply.
Stop reserving ahead. This was not a problem 20 years ago when you had to drive through and sites were first come first serve, on the spot
I believe in 1st come 1st served..and 36 hour notice to reserve should be all that’s required…that would end the weather condition issue as well as all lot issues such as electric ..etc…reservations weeks or months in advance and no shows cost to much for the campground..if a reservation isn’t fulfilled within that 24 hour period..the campsite should be able to give the site to someone else and charge double the cost of the site even the the site was given to someone else..
Signed experienced camper
Feel free to send donation for my knowledge…
Or continue losing income for not changing your campground policies..
They should have a reservation time like hotels do. If they aren’t checked in by a certain time they lose their spot and their money first come first serve.
This is a HUGE problem in Florida. As a native Floridian it is so frustrating to not be able to reserve at parks that I have been going to for 50+ years. My suggestion is:
Every park must have universal cancellation rules. Example: 14 days prior full refund. 7 days prior 1/2 refund. 6 days or less forfeit complete deposit. All campers must notify (call/email)park regardless of time of their cancellation and given a confirmation of this notification. This will give the park the opportunity to rent spot out. If camper does not notify park at least 24 hours prior to check in the will be banned from that park for 1 year. After 1 year they can reserve again. 2nd offense another year banned. 3rd offense lifetime from that park.
If they are having travel emergencies they can hold the spot for 24 hours after check in time. That would be a late check in not s cancellation.
Banning them will only show them how hard it is to get in somewhere else.
I have an RVMOTORHOME I GO TO LOCAL CAMP SITES when I book a sight I can choose from whats available ok. Then I get there and find the sight I really wanted empty? OK the opposite when not local I take a week to 1 month trip. On the road if not pre-booked it can be a bit nervracking to say the least. I dont know about the rest of you but do the regular RV etc have to much money? I know I am retired and careful with my money. I would never book a RV sight without the intent to use it. SO IN MY VIEW THE PENILTY IS NOT HARSH ENOUGH TO STOP IT HAPPENING. SO IF IT DOESN’T CHANGE YOU WILL KEEP SEEING THOSE EMPTY SITES AND MABY NOWHERE FOR YOU TO SPEND THE NIGHT.
The park could offer conditional refunds based on if another person rents the site. The original renter would have to cancel first, and hope someone jumped on the opportunity. No extra cost to the campground. If no one rents the site before the original reserved date, the park would only refund a prorated amount if someone picked up less than the full number of days. Since this does take a little extra time for reservation staff to process, the campground could charge a ‘restocking’ fee
Easy solution is to give reserved campers a “4 hr. Window” on the day of to check-in or call to retain reservation. When not complied with, forfeit refund then immediately open up for other potential campers.
After 24 hrs of a no show or no call the site instantly becomes available.
No refund, unless the site is rented after cancelation, period.
How about charging double for all sites. You show or cancel, you get a 50% refund.
If a person needs to cancel can they just transfer the next person on the waiting list for that amount of days. If that’s not possible the refund process is applied.
First come first served, have a box you pay into for each night you camp at the campsite you stay at with licence plate number and the campsite number , one night at a time you pay. No reserving allowed.every day and night conservation officers come to collect the money. Making sure some one is there. Check in and check out times required.
I suggest you have to call by a certain hour, say 7pm, yo explain if you are going to be late. If you do not, the reservation is forfeited and can be put back on the market.
At Doheny Beach Park, many years ago, there was an evening ‘lottery’ which on site campers could sign up daily on a first come first serve basis to secure a reserved, but ‘no-show’ site. If campers did not show to claim their reserved site by a specific check in time than the site would go to the lottery. The park did charge the lottery campers for the site at a discount. I would imagine that after a no show was confirmed for a reserved site and the site was then passed on to campers who were present the park could notify the folks who didn’t show and issue a partial refund. I’ve lost my space a few times because I showed up a day late. I didn’t call the park to cancel. I was offered a lottery site and I was put on the lottery list in the first come first serve order. There have been times all lottery sites were taken because I didn’t sign up early and I had to make other plans. It’s not perfect, but perhaps better than campers who are willing to pay being turned away from empty sites.
I would be upset if I saw reserved sites not used. Could refunds be issued if the site could be offered & taken by someone else? There prob is a rule that if the site isn’t occupied by a certain time of day they forfeit the spot. They need to figure this out. I understand they’re understaffed etc.
Have a wait list. If the camper is unable to attend, the person on the wait list has a chance to buy the reservation from the no show with a transfer fee paid by the no show camper.
There is already that it works like poop because you literally need to be one at the moment in the app to catch it before it rebooks .I truthfully wish I could pre-pay and if a campsite opens up it automatically reserves and pays for it from my funds.Based on dates I picked . I think the bigger issue is sites going unused and no one knows about it .
Give a refund if someone else picks up the reservation!
I have recently gained a bunch of frustration regarding unused campsites. I think there should be a deposit of something like an extra $100 dollars to be used if a campsite goes unused due to no cancelation. This would force the renting person to think twice about reserving and leaving empty.
I I agree 24 hr cancellation full refund minus a $ 15.00 preparation & cancel fee
12- 6 hr cancel 52% refund
No Show a refund of the cost of site for ea. Night say $35 a nite refund is $35 Park keeps the rest. These are just examples Either way the park is making $$
No reservations, plain and simple, show up and find out what’s available.
Offer a “rain check” option, no refund but if they call 48hrs in advance let them change the dates. The park doesn’t lose any money (intact they stand to make more) and people who might otherwise “No show” will be more likely to make the call. Also use a one strike system, if you “no show” you get put on a list and can no longer make reservations for one or two years, after the second or third time you can never reserve a spot again. Also do reserved spots more like truck stops do, all your reserving is a spot not a certain space.
There are alot of opinions out there.my experience says this . Do you want to go then go if you commit . Now if you can’t make to your site by quiet time your out no refund. Thinking your entitled to a refund I think is selfish and distreasrespectful. When I think about it the responsibility started with you making the reservation. It’s not cool to follow through because the time you took up with the staff or an opportunity for folks that commit and come through. As far as far as the park making twice the amount on your decision not to show, good the park is not in business to loose its there for alot of worthy reasons. And the best ones are preserve and educate. So I think just losing your fees is small price to pay for your no show. Thanks for letting me join your discussion
When I worked at WA state parks, our wonderful hosts would tells us what sites were reserved for the weekend; but unoccupied. We would attempt to contact them. If no show by 1 pm.
their reservation was canceled. Most folks simply forgot they reserved a site!
A lot of folks would intentionally reserve the prior nite and show up early the next morning when there was less traffic on the roads.
Let the person cancel and they only get the amount that the park gets for the site. For example, if someone reserves a site for 3 days and cancels the site becomes available for renting. If the full 3 days are booked and paid for, then they get a full refund. If only 2 days are booked and paid for, then they get a refund for 2 days. This way, it gives people incentive to cancel ASAP. The sooner they cancel, the more chance they have for getting a refund. Additionally, the park is never out money for a cancellation.
I know we lived in RV 3 years and many of the park guests were from town. They rent their houses out for exorbitant costs and rent a spot for dollars with utilities paid. They told us they just move to another spot when their alloted days are up. They reserve the spots the year in advance.
If you are going to be more than 4 hours late. And don’t call in or text in maybe. You lose your reservation. And not just that day. The whole reservation. They get to keep the money, and maybe make a little extra.
That is exactly how I feel too! No show for four hours, you lose your reservation.
There are FB groups who announce last minute cancelations from people who cannot make their reservations. They were either refunded or forfeited their site. They post as a courtesy. I wish more groups across the country did this.
Stop with the STUPID online reservation crap!!!! There’s your solution, plain and simple!
I have been camping (glamping now) for 50+ years. Our local lake State campgd is about 1-1/2 hrs away reqs reservs always be made about 1/2 a year in advance to get in. In the last 10 yrs it’s been almost impossible to get a reserv in June, July and August. 3 of us as a team on separate computers and the phone calling, are perched to book at the precise time reservs opens and in less than a millisecond all the open spaces are not available, they are booked. It is believed here in CA a good amount of large tech companies take blocks of sites for their employees, and a good amount are utilized by government staff as part of the so called friends and family bookings. These two trends are now coming up for discussion and investigations. I usually book arrival for a Thurs night and actually come in very early Fri morn and Depart Mon and leave Sun eve. Cancel 30days prior you should get most of it back, loosing $ = to 1 night stay. % of spaces need to be for 1st come 1st serve.
My wife and I got rid of our camper because all the places we loved to camp at were all reserved many month’s out….too far out for us. The campgrounds going to Reserve America screwed it up even more because who know’s better than the campground staff as to what’s available and what’s not. The campgrounds blame Reserve America and Reserve America blames the campgrounds for not knowing what is available and what isnt available. It’s also a loosing situation for campers living in the same state (Florida) they try to go camping in (Florida) because the northerners take up all the sites for months. All they do is move from one pre-reserved site after so many days to other pre-reserved sites leaving nothing for locals to camp. Why don’t we have campgrounds for state of Florida residents only.
I’d be more in support of an in-state discount than a state resident only campground.
Cancelling a reservation is time consuming just like making a reservation. Lots of times the online reservation sites are very slow, sometimes don’t work, and sometimes we don’t have internet service. Many times to cancel or make a reservation you need to leave a message because very few answer their phones anymore and then if you get a call back it can be days later… So what is the point to go through all of this if last minute you need to cancel a reservation, and even if you do get a partial refund lots of times it will be too late due to the lengthy process.
Bottom line… There are too many of us and the cost of doing business is to expensive to be able to quickly respond to those making or canceling reservations. Sooo. if we want a space bad enough we go through the process to make a reservation in advance, not so much to cancel.
If a person reserved and is a no show release their spot to those on a waiting list no call no refund. If you cancel a hotel room you get a refund up to 24 hours before your reservation if you call otherwise you are charged at least one night sounds fair to me. I also like the three strikes idea those cancelling 3 times are refused reservations in the future. I’m tired of people who think they are the only ones who matter and game the system.
The Park has a way to do cancellations and not lose money. If a person cancels in the no refund period or partial refund period, they will receive a full refund if the site is rented for the same time period. If the time re-rented is shorter, then the refund will only include that time period.
Pretty spot on
What if you offered a refund in the event that the cancelled campsite was rescheduled for use during the same timeframe? If someone cancels and someone pays for and uses that site after the cancellation, the one who cancelled could get a refund.
Easy solution! Make most sites FIRST Come First serve! With few rez sites or none. This is done in Washington state where we camp. Those who don’t show up for rez automatically get removed if no show and site is made available to others. Makes for a lot more open sites too. You must occupy the site and pay for within 30 mins of arrival. And for the sites that are reserved you must cancel online or call BEFORE your dates. IF you don’t call to cancel or show up by noon the next day then your site is automatically freed up and cancelled automatically. Yes, illness or emergency’s happen when plans change, but if you just CANCEL regardless of losing some money or not it’s the considerate etiquette for all! Campers Need to take responsibility when they reserve sites. The policy is written clearly on the reservation site. If campers can’t abide by the policy then too bad, you lose some of your rez $. This keeps campsites from being held hostage by inconsiderate no shows!
I feel like we should go back to the old system first come first serve, then everyone at least has a chance, this allowing people to book for numerous sites and dates and then not show up is keeping a lot of people from being able to camp
AGREED! Beat the crowds, get there early. First Come, First Served. Rain or Shine, We Shall Camp! It’s an adventure people, Live Life and Don’t Cancel because it gets to hard!
So when someone makes a reservation, the park incurs costs to book their stay. These costs should be recouped if the party does not show up. So offer some sort of a refund LESS a “Restocking Fee”. Never offer a full refund but only refunds less that fee so the park can keep going and maybe be an incentive for guests to think twice about canceling. Would be fair if both parties knew that canceling would entail covering the parks costs to handle the whole thing. Also would be better if guests did not do a No Show, how rude .
I’m a camp host and I frequently “sell” a previously reserved site after 24 hrs no show. Our rule is you have to occupy your reserved site the first day of your reservation or you forfeit.
We are a “reservations only” site on Recreation.gov, but I still have the latitude to sell sites to walk ups.
Have a cancelation list. That way if someone can reserve it park can refund it. Communication is key.
I believe the problem could be helped by allowing campers to cancel up to a few days in advance for partial credit freeing up the campsite for someone else. The park should still make more financially than leave it sit empty.
I agree ,right now there is no incentive to do it.
Make the spots into first come first serve and if someone rents the spot then the people that canceled get a full refund.
Have a number to call to see if there are any cancellations
You will need to consider stricter cancelation policies, such as, 50% pay upon booking, 50% balance due at 14 days prior to arrival. No balance paid then it cancels the reservation and you rebook it to someone else. It’s fair business in highly sought lodging.
Sounds like a great solution.
Stop the reservation system. Go back to first come first served!
They should have absolutely no refunds and if there is a no show no call, then an extra $50 charge. The only way to get things back on track is to have harsh rules or consequences. Then after a year or so the campsite can loosen up a bit. It’s either that or continue to live in the cycle their in & no one getting to enjoy the campsite. They can even start now with the current reservations…call them up & ask them if they plan on camping so if not you can give their spot to someone else. Let them know if they do a no show, call or cancel they will be charged a fine. Simple.
A fine idea, except maybe the part about calling people ahead to confirm. Having worked in parks, I know how full the hands of camp staff & supporting staff already are…& that was before Covid. Like most of us in life perhaps, organizations are also struggling to keep up with what it takes & spread ever further the resources they have to get the job done.
I do like the idea of penalty fees for no shows who don’t bother to inform about changes of plans. I remember making calls to try & track down no shows, while juggling everything else it takes to keep a campground running.
I also understand previous posters’ comments about not wanting to punish lower-income folks, as they may need to reserve Friday to be able to get the reservation for the weekend, as sites are often grabbed up for peak season on date & even hour of initial release for booking. So, knowing they won’t be able to take Fridays off (hey, who needs paid leave anymore, & what did unions ever do to raise the standards for private industry workers?!)…sometimes a site will be planned to sit empty for a night, simply bc if they waited until the Saturday to book, those sites would already have been grabbed up on Friday.
You know how competitive this stuff has gotten. I used to hear of people setting reminders for the morning of, 9 months prior to trip date, in Oregon State Parks’ case. Like how in demand concert tickets used to be in my earlier days, constantly refreshing the browser in hopes of grabbing tickets before the scalper bots bought them all. Not that scalper bots are buying campsites, just that it’s as competitive as buying concert tickets was/is.
I might also venture to say that an extra $50 might hardly make some of the type of campers who do this bat an eye (knowing what some people spend in the retail store I work in near my former park) ~ but for those who do have legit things come up, it would probably be an incentive to inform with notice.
Too big of a fine becomes harsh for those who do not operate with that kind of extravagant privilege, however. Hard to say what would be effective, yet fair, & what demographics are actually involved in those who do this kind of thing.
Perhaps the camp staff in the office could begin checking in with campers who have reserved a space the day of to see if they are still planning to occupy the site that day. If it is confirmed that they are not going to occupy the site that say, the reservations can be reopened.
Another idea might be to provide an option for the camper with the reservation to resell the site for an opportunity to recoup their lost funds, leaving the impetus on the user and not the park to fill the empty site. However a small fee should be charged that is passed on to the park to both support the park and deter abuse of the system.
Add a $100 Reservation Fine for no- shows for one day and a $200 fine for 2- more days. All reservations must be canceled by noon same day.
Should a reserved campsite remain open after the first night the camper who reserved the spot should have until 5 pm of the second day or they lose their site for the balance of the reservation.
Another idea would be for the camper who reserves a site and changes their mind and calls to cancel or cancel online that if the campsite in the end is rented out for whatever portion of their reservation they would obtain a one time 50% credit towards a future use.
Maybe refund only if the site gets re-booked. So people would be encouraged to cancel in hopes someone else wants their site so they get a refund. It would allow others to camp that want too, and a refund for when things happen (I had to cancel our big vacation last year due to breaking my ankle and got very little back). I am sure the sites I had booked were re-sold. One was 4th July in Traverse City. But some people figure why cancel when I am getting so little back.
Yes I agree with this- or a resell website like the way stubhub lets baseball season ticket holders sell their tickets to the public. A resell website or option would let the spot not be emptied but the new buyer would be doing the transaction with the cancelling party not the park itself. The park just has to allow the name change.
I had considered that. Perhaps for $5 surcharge a person could be on a waiting list. If someone cancels they can be reimbursed if someone takes their spot for all the allotted nights. If they had four days scheduled but only three were rebooked the original person would have to pay for the one night no one else took it. The $5 would cover the cost of providing the refund and brokering the new transaction
Something definitely needs to be done since there are so many people that don’t take responsibility for their reservations. It’s so frustrating not to be able to get a spot and there is no one on the sites. Have a mandatory NO SHOW fee and stop the buzzards!
Charge more for no shows than cancellations. First come first serve and price hikes both punish the poor and those who do not have the luxury of taking Fridays off
A no show needs to get charged an additional fee. 50% of initial fee possibly , maybe 100%. If you can not incentivize good behavior, penalize rude and selfish behaviors and increase the parks budget to make it nicer for those that have inter gritty and keep their reservations.
Allow people to tell you that their site can be rented from them. This means that if someone says I can’t come this weekend the next person to call and want a site might be able to reserve that site, and that allows you to refund the first person because the campsite is still making money. It allows for the last minute planner to have a spot! I feel like this is a real win-win.
Have a no show additional fee.
Make a policy that if the camp show isn’t filled by checkout time the morning after first day the reservation starts then it opens back up
The park can afford it just not the exact way they are doing it…. 1st keep the same refund policy that’s in place. 2nd if someone who is not going to show let you know at any time set the site back to available… then if another person takes that spot at anytime and pays for it the park will get the money of the no show, and the person who shows up gets a better camping site…. this is a better and more lucrative approach for the campsite and will be a even better experience for the camper.
Highlight… make money on the refund and double down and make money on the camper… while having even more open spots for rental.
Took me longer to write this than it did to think of it.
Maybe even give a small perk for the campers who didn’t show… for letting you know… if the site is purchased
We have been seeing this same thing where we go every summer. Mainly in the full hook up area. We think there should be a Claus: 48 hours no show no refund: this would of course depend on the amount of nights reserved. Anything more than two days with a no show. Open site up to first come, for the remainder of no show reservation. There is always people driving thru hoping to find a spot. Why let a site sit empty for a full week or more.
Allow people to ” buy out” campsites that cancel late after the deadline so that there is still a financial incentive without the park losing the much needed income for maintenance. This would be like leaving a lease before the term is up. If you find someone to take over your lease you don’t have to pay the full term when you leave early.
There should be a less generous refund policy. Perhaps extend it longer prior to reservation date. Make ppl think twice to over book that will make more sites available for those who actually want them.
Could some of the no-shows can be A.I. BOT reservations and payment too? Maybe set method to ping the IP address from the reservation and a one day prior email to confirm reservation, if they do not respond they lose their reservation and funds.
Options…
1)Send out 3 reminders that need at least one reply to verify they are coming. If no reply then the reservation becomes available for another party with the proviso they can’t stay 1 night and recheck every day & may have to vacate.
2)After the second day of no show a reservation is cancelled and the site becomes available to walk-ins.
3) Stipulate a credit card will be charged a penalty fee for no shows. A one time fee, or a daily fee.
Create a system where people can sell their reservation to someone else for the same price they booked if they aren’t going. No price gouging
This feels like a really great idea! I’d use that system all the time, my schedule is not very predictable so I can’t book that far in advance, but would totally but someone’s reservation off them in a heartbeat.
If you no show you loose your ability to make reservations for the year/ forgo reservations for the year? Maybe the first offense is a warning?
After reading your article about reserved but no show campsites, here’s my thought— who ever reserved the spot and paid for it has the right to that spot whether they occupy it or not. I know it’s upsetting to others looking for a campsites and there sets one unoccupied, but it still stands, it is already paid for and is reserved whether the party uses it or not. Thank you for allowing space for comments.
Reserve certain percentage of sites for walk in only. Have the system send a confirmation query text to reserver that morning, if they not showing, put the site up for walk in. Have system reflects daily walk-in sites which could be reserved and paid the same day using mobile app, no refund.
If the camper who reserved the site does not show the first night, the site should be open on a first come basis for the remainder of the booking.
Exactly! Arizona state parks do it very successfully. This also increases the profit margin and cuts down on deadbeats who can’t be bothered to cancel.
My problem is that everyone just reserves Friday through Sunday. Once in a while I’ll get an open site. I usually arrive on Monday and try and stay for 14 days. Last time there was just a few sites with campers until Friday night or Saturday morning. Waste of money letting people break up the week and then have empty sites.
I think comments like Lisa B’s make good sense. Offer refunds when the sites get re-booked by someone else after the original reservations are canceled.
However, I ultimately believe that parks should offer refunds for cancelations always. Who knows, many reasons for a cancelation are beyond someone’s control, like testing positive for COVID or getting injured.
Like the article says, people want reserved but empty campsites. The demand is there. So, the whole, “Parks can’t afford to give people refunds” argument is really BS. Other people are more than willing to pay for those sites, but the campgrounds turn them away.
They’d rather have an empty, paid-for campsite than give cancelers refunds so other people can book the sites and enjoy them. Unfortunately, this helps nobody—including the campgrounds, because their reputations take a hit when they turn away campers. Not good for the long run.
Sorry, this is not a car rental company. Just like hotel reservations you have specific time frame to cancel, and failing to do so impacts the viability of the campground. Camping is low cost with tight profit margins.
Don’t let people reserve more than on spot, they get on there and reserve multiple for fa.ily and friends and then decide a few days before they don’t want them and you can never get a spot
Only take reservations one month in advance not 4, 5, 6 or 7ike alot of places. That way you might not have as many cancelations or no shows because they would have a better idea what there doing
Charge a “Failure to Cancel Fee”. If they do not show up at the end of day 1, or call to notify of a late arrival, charge them an extra $25 and release the site to another camper. I never not cancel, but another $25 sure would make me make that call.
Love that answer! I am a frustrated camper. And it makes me so angry to see all the good sites vacant the days that i get stuck with a poor site.
100% First Come, First Serve DOESN’T WORK FOR EVERYONE! I have to schedule time off weeks in advance. It takes us hours to load the kayaks, bikes, portable grill, camp wood, ice chests, etc. I plan out meals and often have to go to 2 different stores to acquire everything we need. There is NO WAY I’m going to do all that and show up with fingers crossed hoping a spot will be available.
That being said…when I am forced to book my camping trip in January to guarantee a spot in July it is anybody’s guess that 6 months later everything will come together perfectly. No sickness, or injury, vehicle troubles, weather storms, or life getting in the way.
The point of all this shouldn’t be to punish people who plan in advance, but to incentivise communication between the camper and the host or reservation site so if the unforseen happens, others can potentially take up the opportunity to upgrade or enjoy a previously taken space.
We just need better communication!
A designated check-in time would help. If the person with the reservation has still not checked in by their reservation time, an automated text can be sent asking them to confirm whether they still intend to use the site.
The reservation time doesn’t oblige them to be there for that time, but can be used as a guidepost for a follow-up.
A well thought out text interaction could prompt for clarity about whether they’re canceling for one night or if they’re canceling their entire reservation.
A sophisticated system could communicate with both the office and the website to reveal open spots, as well as process those partial refunds.
But to get started, a simple alert to the office indicating last minute availability may be helpful. Many businesses have an office cell phone, which can receive these notices.
Parks may adapt an “abandoned ” policy ; no check in and no text confirmation means your reservation is canceled the next day.
not first come first served people already did that, no one could camp any decent places of course. only way is to see if people are actually using the space. so if campers are more than two days late thats more than fair to their campsite then their reservation no longer counts and is gone. then have that rule always posted at all the campgrounds entrances. then send that rule to the campers cell phone when they make the reservation and also tell the campers they must read the rules when they enter the campgrounds. tell the campers that rule as soon as they make the reservation also. 2 days late is more than fair isnt any reason, isnt any reason, anyone should be more than 2 days late to a campsite. so if campers are more than 2 days late to a campsite their reservation no longer counts and is gone. so when the camper says they werent told and when they say their camper broke down and late, you just remind them those they were told all those ways when they reserved it. or automate i
or automate all that was saying. If there is a way to automate all that also. but even if there was a better way to automate all that also youd still have the campers that cause problems over any camp rule anyway. so if they try to make a fuss with the campground after all that. that is a campground rule so call the cops if a camper causes a fuss because doesnt like a campground rule. they shouldnt have reserved a camp sot if they aren’t there to use it. something like that definitely is the only way to keep reserved campers using their camp spots. this article is right about most people or more want campers to use the camp spots they reserved otherwise their reservation should be gone after a very fair amount of time like that.
that way after something very fair like 2 days late something like that is very fair, then the reservation is gone and then the campsite is no longer theirs.
If they use the internet to make their reservations send them all the park rules and that rule then also. ran out of room so finished in the first replies here.
So this isn’t a new thing!!! This is old news! I have worked for the non-private, non-profit campsite in BC for 10 years. My husband and I have been a two man/woman show for 5.5 months for ten years. Because we work for the smaller non Profit campground, we have a great community board who oversee the whole facility and we work like one big clock. You could say, “we have our poop in a group!” So when we hear all the complaints, like hundreds every year, complaining about the reservation system and how they sit online that morning at 7am, like all of BC does! Then find out they didn’t have a chance. If you do your history about these LARGER “A” N4P parks, you will find, they might have been turned over to whoever internationally could apply for tender….to over see the sub-contracting and management of the park. Be it China, Canada, United States bla bla bla. Well I can’t write into this because I run out of letters. But contact me if you want to chat! Or not!
Have campsites with electric outlets and more staff and lots of activities. People want to hook up there electric so they don’t have to use there gas all the time
Online credit card reservation system ppl more likely to show up if they leave non refundable reservation deposit. When they show up apply to their campground costs so they think they got some great deal with a lower total balance than expected if they check in like a hotel
First come first serve only. That way the spots can be used and camp grounds will still make money and the spots won’t sit empty for the weekend or ever.
Don’t allow no show people to reserve for the next 3 years. If they don’t show the first night, the next days should be cancelled.
I’ve heard there are some (maybe a lot) people who are making multiple reservations at multiple parks for the same time-frame so they have options of where to go when they are ready. Then, they cancel at the last minute, or just no-show altogether.
I also hear there are people making multiple reservations, and re-selling them on private groups on social media.
Both of these actions prevent honest people from enjoying the parks. The penalties for these behaviors, and for no-shows should definitely be higher to discourage it. How about anyone who is found doing these things, first be warned, then be restricted from making reservations for a year?
Also – get the camp hosts and park staff more actively involved in identifying and reporting these behaviors.
I agree with this idea. Unless someone calls to let park staff know they will be late, unclaimed campsite should be made available after 24-hour no show.
If a site is reserved and the person reserving it doesn’t show on the arrival date they should be made to forfeit the site so that it can be opened up for others to reserve.
Actually I don’t think anybody should be mad at an empty campsite if the no show campers paid for it and don’t show up too bad , its their dime paying for unused site why should other campers be frustrated it’s really non of their biz what’s going on in other sites they need to worry about themselves otherwise they’re purposely making their camping miserable jealousy about what everybody else is or isn’t doing why should campsite have to waste time appeaseing NOSEY VISITORS doing this causes bigger problems with other frivolous complaints
Everybody knows the best sites require an advanced reservation nobody should show up on a 4 day weekend and even expect any site available for camping this is STUPID
Forget the whole reservation thing entirely for camping. It takes all the fun out of it. Go back to the good old days of 1st come, 1st served. Simple, ez, no problemz
I honestly don’t think people should be concerning themselves with this, if anything more empty campsites means a better camping experience for those who do show up. There is no conceivable way to do anything about this without risking putting people with reservations in a situation where they could show up only to find their campsite occupied. That is just not cool.
I like this solution:“sell” a previously reserved site after 24 hrs no show. You have to occupy your reserved site the first day of your reservation or you forfeit.
Also parks might consider only making part of the campsites for reservations and the other part walk in.
Very Simple, if you don’t show within 24 hours of your reservation, your site is free for the campsite to relist and resell. You get no refund and campground gets to double dip. This sounds do simple and an easy way to increase profit.
Have it so that they can cancel anytime with stipulation that if someone books the site they pay less of cancelation fee.but to go with this the resrervation sites needs to have notfication system to let people know they canceled ie i put myslef on wish list for those dates and when billy cancels i can get a last minute site…maybe the site cheaper cause of billys cancelation fee.
An online system needs to be set up. You select the campsite you want and book the nights accordingly if available. If a person cancels 8 days prior they automatically get a full refund. At the 4 to 7 Days provide a guaranteed half partial refund as is the current policy. No refund unless rebooked if 3 days or less. All rebooked sites are given a refund minus a small fee. Perhaps $3 a night. Perhaps even surcharge the next person instead. Beyond this, a waiting list needs to be in place. Highest on the waiting list will have option to secure the site canceled.
NEVER allow sites to be transferred to different parties. This invites squatters to book high demand places such as Yellowstone and auction them off.
Names of anyone or alternates may be entered when booking but only those people listed when the reservation is made can take control of the campsite. This is in the event the original person who booked is unable to make it
First come first served. No rez. That is the fairest to all.
We would never spend all of that gas money to pull a big fifth wheel, unless we knew for sure we had a site.
The problem with strict first come, first served is that there’s no way to know when a campground is full unless you actually go there in person. The park websites don’t tell you (which it should). It would deter a lot of be would-be visitors, especially those who live far away, and make it hard to plan trips.
Do like the hotels…if you are not checked in by a certain time in the evening then you forfeit your reservation UNLESS you have made contact with them to let them know you in fact WILL still be arriving just late (and try your best to provide an estimated time even call back if that changes) . The key here is communication. Things happen and that’s just fine or sometimes your itinerary doesn’t match “traditional” hours which is perfectly acceptable as well. The ask is just remember to communicate with the campground if you will be arriving late. And for those who go Ghost…then that site is Released at a designated time on a first come first served basis for same day rentals. There is no issue of a refund because that late in the game (same day) under existing rules the campgrounds would not have issued a refund anyway. Others have the opportunity to camp, all the sites are utilized, everyone knows what to expect, and peace ensues.
One small change to reservation system, would be an automated email or text confirmation message to person who made reservation 24 – 48 hrs before checkin. Add in reservation policy that confirmation are required to hold the reservation. Confirmations can be made by responding to text or email or by manually calling or going online to confirm during 24 – 48 hrs period.
This would allow system to make available online sites that fail confirmation. Also give parks a better view of what’s been reserved vs confirmed. This should free up some of the less serious reservations. As for long term campers, maybe make half of sites only available for weekend only reservations 2 weeks before. Thus allowing people making long term plans and long stay plans more availability to sites. People just booking weekend after weekend for as far forward as possible should be more limited to a shorter reservation window. This would improve weekday reservations as well.
Use an electronic swap system. Have campers who want to cancel submit on website/app (existing or made-for-use), allow campers who want to pick up a reservation last minute browse these options. Charge new reservation slightly more to cover admin charges (call it a convenience fee for the last minute resie), use the new reservation charge to reimburse first camper, less a small fee to also cover admin charges. If no new camper picks up available site, initial camper’s charges remain.
Do away with reservations go back to first come first served.
First come first served sounds better you might have someone out of the area that just causes by stop in. They get in love the area and boom they make reservation for next year. Your right the gas prices, food etc. has gone up tremendously, it’s absolutely horrible some people in some areas are only making $2 or $3 above gas prices like Texas. How can anyone survive on that cause housing is insane. Everything goes sky high except work wages. Wow Wee way to go government!
That would just be chaotic and wouldn’t work for most state and national parks. Imagine packing and driving 300 miles to your favorite campground to find it’s all full.
exactly
I say the reservers should give a mandatory reply one day before saying if they intend on showing up. Then if not, lose the site. Then camp ground officials notify others that the site is open.
Offering a full refund up to the morning of check in IF properly cancelled might actually encourage guests to cancel, leaving the spot open for rental. Or maybe they could offer a credit for a future stay at least. On top of that, charging a “no show” additional fee, and no refund if reservation isn’t cancelled would deter guests from refraining from cancelling. Also, make cancelling easy for anyone – allow for call in cancels and quick online cancellation.
I think when people know they aren’t getting any money back anyway, they aren’t as inclined to cancel. They may want to “hold” their spot in case weather improves or in instances of illness, in case a family member recovers and can make a portion of the trip. Sometimes people show up days later in times of vehicle issues. But, if they knew they could get either a refund or credit for a future stay, they might be more apt to just cancel and try again at a later time.
When I cancel a campsite I always post it on any social media groups that I am tired. Usually someone is interested in this book within an hour
Forget the reservation system. When a park is filled that’s it. Camping has no longer become the adventure it should be. In some of the national parks close to where I live reservations are booked a year ahead of time. It’s ridiculous!
I as well agree,no more reservations and no shows,it was perfectly fine before and more sites available
Keep the cancellation policy as-is, except if you cancel and the site gets rented by another person, you get a full refund.
If a person cancels the reservation and the site is rebooked then they may receive more of the refund if not it’s entirety that way no one is out the money. Maybe the campground still reserves 5% -10% of the original booking fee and the customer only gets 90-95% of a refund which would cover administrative costs
Why not offer some sort of way to cancel but reschedule. So if they call or reschedule online they can use some or all of their money or whatever works for the campground to reschedule. And also offer a way to notify someone who is looking for a campsite. That way someone else can schedule.
You can already do this
Solution is simple, All reservations are void if you don’t check in within 12 hours of your appointed time.
This is a good solution !
The no-shows, are the spots been paid and still not show? Is it possible to add an extra charge for the no-shows? As in a Dr’s visit you pay if you don’t make your appointment. A lot more company’s are going to this. If it hits there pocketbook, they tend to be more respectful. It’s sad to have to do that but you have to keep your end of the deal. At least a 24 before hand cancelation. Then have a waiting callback list.
I support local state and national parks. To do so I don’t ask for a refund if I leave early or arrive late. I do ask for a refund if I need to cancel more than a week ahead. I do notify so maybe others can use the site.
I appreciate being able to see openings on line and take advantage on occasion when a site opens up.
I have no problem with the current system. GC gets money. If someone wants a sight so bad plan ahead and reserve at earliest. Less people makes my visit better and GC is compensated, why would I care is site unused, that person spent their money how they spent it means nothing to me.
It does if you have the ugly spot and 10 beach sites are empty.
I agree.Less campers make for a more restful and quiet camp.
The parks are great, only a few entitled are griping. They don’t care if the parks go broke only that they get what they want. .been camping for years and please don’t change a thing
Here is a thought. I have an account on a website BaseCamp. You can find it linked to campadk.com . It shows cancellations at different parks in New York, and you can book from this site. People also put on if they are looking for something specific, or that they need to cancel.
Why couldn’t the parks, resorts partnership with websites like this one to ensure thar campsite are not left empty, and refunds are given.
Or offer a voucher to those that have to cancel for a later date. So its not a total loss.
If cancelled within 5 days of stay, no refund unless the campsite is reserved by another. Roll the dice. If the site gets reserved after you cancel, you get your money back. If not, you lose your money. If you’re not planning on coming anyway, at least there’s a chance you get a refund.
When I worked in the hotel world people cancelling after the deadline could still get refund if someone else purchased their night(s). A similar option would encourage late cancellations with at least the chance to get a refund.
I think reservations should be required because our family has to drive a couple hours minimum to reach a campground. The first come first serve approach would prevent us from even attempting to camp. I like the idea of a forfeit if you don’t show up on day of check in or call to make hosts aware that you will be arriving late. Also, a credit on a future stay if cancellation is needed would be a good incentive.
No it doesn’t..We did it for 20 yrs…
Just keep throwing those ideas out it will eventually result in some new policies. Trying to plan a camping trip by staying up all night manning two computers to have a “ chance” at some campgrounds seems a bit strange but as many of you know it’s the reality
I really like your idea alot.
The best way is to charge a no show fee. Don’t show up yet a $100 charge. It’s simple and will definitely make sure people cancel their reservations. Also if they cancel their reservations after full and partial refund period they should get it back as a credit for a later day.
I like this idea. And the “can’t afford to give refunds” thing is kind of bull. Considering how hard sites are to get, it would be re-reserved very quickly after being cancelled im sure.
If a no show the first night of a reservation the remainder of the reservation time is forfeited. Site becomes available to others following the first day of no show.
Offer a small but valuable token ie a $10 Amazon Gift card for cancelling and returning the campsite for others to reserve. Once people realize they aren’t getting a refund they just don’t care, maybe this would invent them to do the right thing.
Go back to no reservations at all. Also if the people don’t show up by a certain time ,let others have the site.
If they don’t cancel give them a 24 hour notice to call in or your site goes back on the market. I know most people can call if they are JUST going to be late.
This suggestion deserves heavy consideration. The issue with reserved but clearly vacant has been an issue as long as I have been RVing I’m 71. Some private parks offer a credit to be used. If you cancel far enough out you get a refund. Close to reserved time a credit.
No brainer first come first serve and you will fill more sites and have many more happy campers. Let’s face it folks in this dog eat dog world we live in now this is the best way for everyone.
Agree. First come first served is the way it should be.
EXACTLY! Worked perfectly all through the 90s..I HATE the reservation garbage
That’s the way it is now with online reservations. Nobody will just show up to a park with their trailer “hoping” to get a spot.
It’s the cancelation policy that needs addressing. People should have to confirm they will be at the park 24 prior or be canceled with no refund.
Agreed. We need to improve communication via confirmation emails and incentivize cancelling if unable to come (i.e. some sort of refund schedule), not punish the people who plan and pay upfront, but unfortunately can’t make it.
It doesn’t work for everyone.
In the case of a multi-day reservation if the camper doesn’t show the first day the remainder of their reservation could be canceled unless they call to say they will be arriving.
Could the campground management allow campers to exchange days they wish to cancel for a future reservation? This would allow other campers to fill the open slot.
If the site has remained empty for, insert time, or a phone call that they are a day behind then the site is considered abandoned. Empty meaning no belongings at site. I would suggest 12 hours from rental start.
The US government uses this method for green card applicants. You leave the country you have abandoned your application and need to restart and repay fees as well as wait for a spot.
First come , first served. Keep it simple
I say if people are abusing the rights to cancel there reservations or leaving there campsites empty and not using them ,,, Take them back and re rent them for others to use ! No refunds after a person cancels 2 times in a year season .
I would say have a bulletin board for cancellations. Then the original person can swap names …just like at a hotel, you can reserve(and even pay) on one credit card then swap to another upon checkin. Surely they could come up with some sort of reservation code that the person checking in would be given and need to have (like a confirmation code 😁) and if the person taking over the reservation isn’t the original reserver, they would be given this….and if they don’t show, no harm no foul to the campground. The site is still paid for!
We just had this issue last week! The campground calls all the site reservations not checked in by the next day….
When reserving select a check in window, if they don’t arrive in that slot consider them a no-show keep their money and let someone else stay their. Maybe an hour of buffer time before giving their slot away.
Send a simple email to confirm or cancel one to two weeks out or both. If confirmed and they don’t show up, another text goes out that their site will be forfeited unless they call the camp number to hold it. If they cancel it the system will know the site is available. If new rules are made about refunds, it’s up to us to read them and accept them. Refund policies should probably be a little more strict and the parks shouldn’t sit empty.
If short notice ..if you can find a taker the person get partial refund if not out of luck .also make the refund in a gift card..find a someone that will give you a discount on cards..i think everyone wins
Easy..you dont cancel within a week..no refund at all..Better yet..go back to the first come..first serve policy ..was MUCH better
Its not that easy. Someone above posted that if they dont get a refund then they wont cancel as they dont want the park making double on the spot. Its selfish af.. I know..
What about those who cancel several days out due to medical reasons? Its not their fault so a refund or partial refund is best. FCFS would be a nightmare and leave a lot of people on the road with so many in this full time lifestyle right now.
We need to fully fund public campsites so that no rental fee need be applied, since our tax dollars already go to this. Then it’s first come first serve.
If campers are not in a site or have contacted by a deadline time then the site is no longer reserved.
First come first serve would keep me in my family from even making the attempt it’s one of the reasons I avoid some of the national parks. The park staff should be able to call the reservation holder if they miss their reservation by 3 hours and at that point they can probably cut down on 50% of the lost space.
Very easy solution. Let them know that if they cancel the last minute, they will have the chance to get full refund if the place is booked by another guest.
In the on line reserve or cancel , prominently place a button to read and click oup in to this option.
“Upon cancelation I may open my site to Rebooking. If my site is rebooked I will receive a fill refund for the time which the park was able to rent my alotted site.
This option removes my ability to arrive and claim my site as late check in.”
If I do not select this option upon cancelation normal cancelation rules will apply.
What if they offer it to a partial refund a few days in advance, but if the site gets booked again that person gets more of their money back?
They could even do it as a “put your site up for bid” or something, with the price being capped at what they originally paid to get their money back (but not make any money on it)
In addition to the suggestions of requiring confirmation shortly before arrival, have a wait-list and if there are cancellations those on the wait-list get notified via email. Some people only need up to a week of prior notice to prep for and plan a trip. And some people are more tolerant of camping in not-so-ideal weather than others. So perhaps the confirmation window starts 10 days out from arrival date, when a weather forecast can be discerned.
If I’m not getting a refund why would I cancel and let them double dip on that spot?
I would put it up for sale on marketplace. Eg:: Week in tofino campground and let someone else pay me for my spot or allow me post it on thier site to pay me for my spot, giving email address to transfer to.
Refund is done and no one had to do anything. Simple.
But let them keep my money and then let them make 2xs the money, not happening with my help.
You’re right, you shouldn’t have to. However, because there are so many people like you – more parks should institute a policy that if you miss your first night, you lose the spot.
Refunding spots you don’t show up for or cancel the day before would result in lost revenue. It’s that simple.
Don’t be an oaf and cancel I’d you’re not going to go.
This would just encourage the scalpers to reserve spots with no intention of using them and then reselling them at a higher price.
If you sell your spot and the reservation is under your name, you are still the responsible party to damages.
You knew the policy. So why would you deny other parents n children. SELFISH MUCH???
I have recently tried to cancel and it was refused due to no refund. So…. What then? They need to update the website and make sure that cancelations are still possible at all parks.
👍
Have a percentage of sites be first come first serve if they dont already have that option. Or a higher percentage if they already do. Say 20-30%. Then when people come in to rent those sites they can look at ones that are open because of cancelations and get more people in. We often camped this way in years past now you cant get in without a reservation well in advance.
Won’t click on this site again. They don’t even name the campground.
Who cares what campground it is. Its a problem across the entire country.
The problem is communication and that likely is the answer as well
agreed
If it was a restaurant reservation and a no-show, they would cancel it and move on to the next patron. Why can’t it be written in the reservation statement that, if there is a no-show OR call to report a late arrival within the first 24 hrs of the reservation, it goes back on the reservation list. That’s what phones are for! Why would you wait days for someone to show up?
Also, consider volunteer workers. People don’t mind helping keep up a campground. It’s good community, teaches good stewardship to all and a way to meet fellow campers. Have a marshmallow and winner roast afterwards!
The policy for Rhode Island state campgrounds is that if you do not occupy your site on the first night of your reservation you forfeit your entire reservation and the site becomes available for other campers. Simple. Works.
Perfect.
If they no-show, block them from reserving again in the future.
But they paid… And it’s a bad refund policy
My tire blew on the way to a site with no phone service. I disagree to this.
Reservations are extremely important because we drive hours and wouldn’t be able to camp at all without them. However, I needed to cancel a week off the end of my 2 week trip this year the day my reservation started. On reservation.gov once your reservation starts, you can’t change your reservation at all. A refund would have been nice, but I mainly just wanted someone else to be able to use the site. I understood if they couldn’t give me a refund so late. Unfortunately, I talked to the camp host and called to talk to reservation.gov office employee and BOTH of them told me that if I couldn’t do it on the website, then they couldn’t do it either since they only have access to the same website. That is a huge problem! If they can’t even change the website to show available sites even if I don’t need a refund, then of course the sites will go unused. They could have honestly charged the 2nd person to book my site also and made double.
Give a credit, not a refund, and open the site back up.
You could automatic emails, texts, or even phone calls to confirm “Are you still coming to campground X?”
Allow them to easily cancel from these notices.
Smart idea! This would be a low-cost way to improve the system right away. Still need to do other things, but this would be a huge help.
Been tent camping for years Its getting hard and hard to get good sites To fine out that someone reserved a sites doesn’t show If we reserve a site we go rain or shine There also lot of these outdoor people who leave the site a mess You have clean your site when you leave its not your home
My coworker is retired military they get free camping I agree with this however I think it can be abused if you don’t lose any money for no-shows.
The same thing happens in the Ontario provincial parks Canada. There should be an amount of money charged above the normal rate that is refundable only when you show up, if you don’t show up you loose the normal rate plus the “no show” rate.
It would be a better policy for every campground to have a certain percentage of sites available for walk ins. Even more important would be to require a physical 1st night stay at the reserved site otherwise you forfeit the rest of your reservation with no refund. If one can afford to reserve a site and not utilize the reservation then they certainly don’t need the refund but someone else could certainly use the site. If the camp wants to pass down the site to a lucky camper free of charge then that would make things interesting too.
My daughter reserved a campsite for 4 day’s at the State Park we always camped at. She was bringing my 3 grandkids and my husband and myself planned on visiting during the day and bringing fresh ice and snacks. When she arrived it was made clear to her No Visitors due to covid. I personally think it’s been taking to far your in the middle of the woods !! Another couple friends of her’s reserved a site next to her but we’re closing on their new home so cancelled. I think it would of been a much better experience if not for the no visitors policy. From now on we will be camping at a private campground.
Many people start booking their sites up to 5-6 days before just to get a weekend spot. This really hurts the campers who want to stay away from weekend camping.
I would suggest that if there is a no show starting the first day (24 hours), then the rest of the reservation should be automatically canceled. This would encourage those that reserved their spots for the weekend to adjust the reservation for the dates they really need.
We are one of those many frustrated campers who camped a few months ago in a less desirable spot while watching a prime spot stay vacant almost our entire stay.
If the Ohio State Park reservation system was user friendly. Then there could be a way to relist sites as available from cancellation. Then a partial refund could be given if camp site was rebooked last minute.
Once the no refund date is reached if the reservation is cancelled let the cite go back up for availability, if it is then rented refund the original reserver 50%. It would be a win all the way around. The park would never loose money on a lot and would stand to get 1.5x the lot rate for the hassle.
State Parks, National Parks, Corps of Engineer, Camp Grounds
I know the frustration of trying to find an RV site and reserving what is available and finding empty sites when you show up.
1. Charge a no-show fee and return site back to on-line reservation system if reservation is not used after 12 hours of reservation check in date.
2. Refund reservation through online cancelation system, if reservation is canceled 24 hours before reservation check in date.
Can you charge a deposit and keep it if they are a no-show without cancelling? Then maybe you could afford to refund deposit but keep fee if cancel within 2 days – even refund fee if someone else picks up vacated site?
Charge a fine for no shows post it on the website so the know up front. Create a cancelation list for people to access the empty sites short notice(Like a dentist appt.)
I agree with this idea. No show can’t reserve at the campground for a year. More than one no show at rec.gov campsites are banned for longer.
Do it on a first come first serve basis
Problem solved!!
Also, cancelation has to be a week prior in order to get a refund of any kind.
Credit to reservation holder if the site is filled. $0 refund is zero incentive to give up the site.
After 24 hours with no contact they forfeit the entire reservation with no refunds.
If a site is canceled it should be available for walk in campers or people who want to change sites and if a no show does not call to inform the camp ground they are delay or not coming it should become available after a grace period of 2 days.
Campsites should have the same cancellation policy as hotels. The responsibility to check the weather is ours. The campsite/park should not be held responsible for our lack of research. It’s nature. Weather happens. It’s part of the enjoyment of being in the outdoors. On the other hand, if the camper doesn’t cancel there is no loss to the campsite. The spot is rented and other campers should understand the site cannot control whether someone shows or not. Include a disclaimer that instructs the renter that if they no call/show after 12 hours their reservation is forfeited and their previously reserved site will be made available for rent. I understand things happen, but we should be courteous enough to let the site know if we’re running late or can’t make it. Do not exchange for a later date.
If the campsite has a no refund policy and rents the spot again good for them!
If the people cancel, give them a credit to use later. Then people won’t lose and the park won’t lose either.
Let’s make no refund for those who already making reservation.
The campground needs to change their reservation system. I fully appreciate their refund policy: however, if advised that a visitor wishes to cancel in the non refundable period, change the site to open and available. Charge an administrative fee of 10% maybe 20% for the service. If the site is rerented then process the refund to the original renter. It is better to get a refund of 80% than lose 100%
If a reservation is missed, show up date, then the reservation is forfeited and any money is non-refundable. Site goes back to the available list. Snooze you loose, be responsible for commitments and respect the other persons wanting to camp. Lived in Florida for several years; was never able to get in state parks along the coast due to the same reservations blocking others out issues.
There should be a default checkin time. If you don’t checkin by a certain time and fail to call to say you are still coming, then you lose your site.
Solution: Camper A either submits a request to cancel their reservation, or a delay to their scheduled arrival. If they do not take either of these actions within 24 hrs after their scheduled arrival, the site becomes unreserved. If Camper B then reserves the site, Camper A gets a refund for all but a small administration fee.
First come first served is not recommended as it could result in Campers traveling to a park which reaches capacity before they arrive, or just as they arrive.
Deposit is typically required to make a reservation. Have credit card on file and charge for half of the stay if people no-call, no-show. If they call to cancel within a week, they would just lose the deposit, and if further out than a week, then they qualify for a refund. This way people might be more inclined to actually reach out and cancel their reservation so the campsite could become available for others.
It’s all about developing a good online software system to handle everything automatically. Allow 48 or 72 hours to cancel but with a fee. ReserveAmerica, for example, charges $8. When a reservation is cancelled, the system changes the site from ‘reserved’ to ‘available’ and sends an email to people who signed up for notification of availability for those same days. If you are a no-show, then after 24 hours of your reservation, the system will automatically convert your site to “available” and offer it to other people. Ideally, a phone app would be best because most RV’ers who are looking for last minute campsites are already on the road without a computer or at the same campsite wanting to extend their stay. Because who is complaining about the empty sites? Those who are already at the campground.
Communication of these rules at time of online reservation are critical to avoid a flood of complaints. I’d recommend that each rule be initialed when the booking is made.
Go back to as before I crossed Canada and states a bit ,first come first served if you do reserve need to be at campsite by a certain hr if not it becomes vacant for someone whom is willing and thier 😉. We all know way ahead reservations is good but many no shows prevent folks 😉 in having a spot .if you book in advance have them read and check off I agree ..
Go back to first come first serve. We’ve been camping in 7 states this summer and can’t get open resos but do find places with empty spots which we’ve used!
I know people who reserve sites for an entire month, just so they have a place to go when its conveinient while the rest of us cant get in for a couple days.
I suggest to open up a system where people can sign up for notifications of open sites. Then the people can cancel and a notification can be sent out to people that it is open. They can then hop on and reserve it for themselves. I would love to know if someone is backing out since we were unable to reserve much this year with the high demand.
They still must cancel maybe a couple days in advance to receive refund but that’s reasonable – the same system goes for Vrbo’s etc…. People can’t expect to be able to cancel day of.
And like others are saying- one day of no show and it’s no longer theirs. Open it up to others.
That’s awesome if a person is retired…more than a couple days….
In Tennessee several years ago- they had a “No show policy- if you didn’t call or show – you were billed but your campsite was released- so if after 12 hour or 24 hours- your loose the campsite if you don’t call to say you were delayed – we got a campsite like that from a no show 👍
At 14 days out there should be a final confirmation between the two parties. If there is no confirmation it goes back on the availability page and zero refund.
Besudes the no show day 1 auto cancel rest of the days.
I dont know the cost of this but why not let people have the potential of a refund if someone else fills the spot?only get charged processing fee?
Or give them credit for another day if they cancel, maybe limit it to expire if not used in 3 months.
How about an option that campers can put their site up for grabs and if it gets booked by someone else they can get their refund.
If someone doesn’t show up the first day to claim their campsite, then the reservation should be canceled by the park.
Make a way that a would be camper can buy the spot from the no show person.
Sure! We need an app that allows people with reservations an option to “sublet” their space – could be organized by state/county/etc. … surprised it doesn’t already exist –
Hotels already solved this issue.
If the cancelation window is closed, they will refund you if they fill the room. This could work with RV resorts too. Keeps resorts profiting and prevents double dipping of spots.
I believe there’s an easy solution. if the site isn’t filled by a certain time it can be rented out again, if it’s rented out the person who did not show up for the reservation could get their money returned, because now the park is getting paid for the site. If the site is not rented out then they are still charged for it. This would also be a plus for people who are not able to make a reservation but show up hoping that there is an open site.
Elizabeth you have just hit the nail on the head this is exactly what they need to do I have been a tent camper for I don’t know 40 plus years and have always enjoyed camping in the non-electric but I really do enjoy when it’s hot out setting my tent up in an electrical hookup so I can run a fan of the evening I too have seen several empty spots on busy weekends and that would be a very good way to overcome it they would get it booked with no problem I do know at the Indiana State Parks there is always one space in each section that is not available for rental at all and that is due to emergency personnel and DNR was kind enough to explain to me in length about that and it set my mind at ease and I’m glad they keep spots open for that reason but if I have reserved a spot and I call and cancel that spot should automatically come up for rent, have a wonderful day and enjoy summer camping 🏕️🥾.
If they are not occupying their site by a certain time on the first reserved day then they forfeit the site. Just like they do for hotel rooms.
Or they gotta call someone to confirm they are going to be there if they are a little behind schedule. No call, no show = lost spot
If I’ve paid and don’t get a refund the site remains mine. Double dipping by the campground isn’t fair. I think a system where if the site can be rebooked then I would get a full refund would be the best for all.
So you think it is ok to book a site and hold it from others when if you can’t make it. This is selfish and just about the attitude majority of people have now a days. I think if you pay and don’t show up the first day, you lose the spot. This will make you think twice next time you book. And yes I have been to many campgrounds around the country, people reserve spots and don’t show up. It really takes away from the true outdoor people.
You sound like part of the problem…
So it’s all about you huh Larry. Typical of what we encounter out there.
Offer a partial refund to the original purchaser only if the site gets resold. simply charge more to begin with.
Offer them to reschedule
Although not a perfect system, the Wa State Ferry reservation system has a cancellation policy that allows cancellation up to 24 hrs in advance. Once people know this, they log on onto the site before 5:00 pm and can see if a available slot opens up.
Since the San Juan Island communities are aware that some people change plans last minute, they have a FB page to allow them to post their available slot if they have reached or passed the allotted cancellation time . Generally it’s done out of kindness. Some may exchange money.
The policy is to open up and release the reservations at various prescribed times : months ahead, 2 weeks ahead, 2 days ahead.
As more people learn the policy, it becomes a way to get a reservation last minute and helps others retrieve their initial reservation monies without penalty.
My guess is that most of the time your campground would be full with many happy campers.
Give the reserving party an opportunity to offer their site for rebooking.. if it gets rebooked, then they will be cancelled at no charge. If not, then the cancellation policy still applies
Only allow in person transactions…quit the internet reservations…once park people have the record of the persons onsite its as simple as a phone call to know if there are available spots. If you need a hold on a spot because your coming across country, send a money gram or certified check for the TOTAL amount of days and dont plan on getting it back if u cant show up on day one.
After 24 hours of the day the person was to show up and failed to let campsite know its now available again to walk ins or other money grams…
Camping is about getting back to the basics…so KEEP the reservation process BASIC.
I agree with you 100%. Use to be able to reserve a spot (by phone) with the park rangers who took all the pertinent info and never had a problem. This online stuff is for the birds!
What’s with all you people so ready to crap on everybody? “Give me your money and screw you” seems to be how you all want to be treated.
Why not do the same as hotels. If you do not make contact or cancel, your reservation is up for grabs. If they show up, the latecomers potentially get the less desirable sites to choose from. Seems simple to me.
I agree 100%
Is this really what hotels do? I believe if you’ve paid in full and have not askedfor a refund and have not canceled your room stays empty for the time you have paid for it. They are more than happy to take your money for nothing.
Agreed!
I agree with combinations of previous comments-there are some darn good opinions given! I would add- give more power to campground hosts. Their answers are always that there is nothing they can do. They are on the front line and have a pretty good idea of what’s wrong. A good host should be able to manage their campground. Communication between all involved should be easier/better. Sites must be occupied if reserved or forfeit the reservation. (In a state I recently traveled to sites you could book a site for a full week- knowing they would use it only on the weekend) UGH! Save sites for drop ins- and not always the least desirable. Not everyone plans months in advance. I don’t.
Ban those from reserving in the system for 1 year first offense, 3 years second offense, if they no show like this without canceling or making a good faith effort to contact the campground authority. Or come up with a similar plan. Not fair to those in need of a camping spot.
Why is no one thinking here about something happening in the road where there is no phone service? 🤔
But they already paid if they no show so technically that’s their spot whether they’re there or not. You can’t punish them if it’s been paid. Technically it’s not even clear if it’s legal to rent the spot to someone else if it’s already been paid by the no show. That’s a double profit.
If they cancel and get a partial refund then you prorate the spot and rent it out via that date. I’m confused by the whole thing because it’s written that people are canceling and if that’s the case then why would the sites stay empty? Why would they not immediately come available as soon as they’re canceled? If the site is paid for but empty and it’s already been canceled then rent it if it’s legal to double profit. Otherwise make it an emergency spot or scholarship spot do something positive with it. If the site is paid already but empty without a cancellation of any kind you can’t do anything because they have paid and can show up at anytime within the reservation.
Point being that the no shows are keeping the rest of us out for no good reason. It’s not ownership, it’s more like using shared resources fairly.
Hey buddy, if I paid for a spot, I give 0 **** what you think about how I use it. Maybe tell the business that the way its run passes you off rather than make everybody else the bad guy just because the staff says they are.
See above reply.
OK. If someone has a site reserved for Friday night through Monday morning and by Saturday morning they have not been heard from and have not arrived out that site back up available! Keep the no show money but there is no reason to keep a site empty if the family is obviously not coming. This can be written into policy to state that if you haven’t shown up for your reservation by a certain time the following day your site could be assigned to someone else. If you arrive after said time frame your reservation will be honored but possibly at a different site. I’m a passionate camper and I have been late to sites but I would agree to this.
There should be another stage to the software…reserved, available and tentative……. tentative meaning someone looking for site would have to call the park, and the park staff could cancel a reservation and then refill it immediately, all in the same phone call. The person looking for a site would have to know before the swap out that it’s nonrefundable unless the spot can be filled. Or even have it so this could be done at home by the person looking. The person wanting to cancel should have to call the park to let them know they want to change their site from reserved to tentative, which would let someone else know that tentative means it’s up for grabs.
Provide return of deposit when someone else pays for the site. That would stop the campground from getting paid twice for the same site.
FCFS That simple. It’s how a reasonable society works
Why not start a check in policy like Airlines but require you to verify you are coming 48 hrs before or lose you preferred space. If you show up without verification, you get next available space.
If you cancel and that spot is filled by last minute arrival a partial refund is given. That refund is based on occupancy %. Campers who want that better site can pay a upgrade charge to cover the time to change site availability online.
If they cancel reopen the site, and allow people to pick a better site if they want. This past weekend we experienced a park who was not mowed and with snakes out and about it’s important. Nobody wants to pay for an overgrown or weedy site.
It the camper does not show or contact you the first night they automatically forfeit the site for other campers. It’s maddening that sites are open and people are ready to camp. Something definitely needs to be done especially in our state and national parks. It’s not rocket science.
Most people don’t cancel the rec.gov sites because they are on senior pass and it’s chump change so they don’t bother. Send email a week out with a confirmation link and explanation that if they don’t confirm then the reservation is vacated with no refund. Direct phone # as well. No confirmation, then reservation is voided. Technically the reservation is voided if they don’t show the first day, but the parks don’t have staff to manually monitor this.
I agree with the suggestion that refunds can be issued if the site is booked by a new party. Perhaps still a partial refund with a small portion held to help with costs.
1) full refund with 2 weeks notice
2) reservations are cancelled if you no-call no-show on the first night
3) partial refund based on camp occupancy if you cancel
3a) compare empty camp sites to total cancelations. Take a portion of their refund to pay for unused sites. Ex if 10 people cancel, but there ends up being only 5 open sites they would get a 50% refund.
3b) only refund people who cancel. No-call no-show means no refund.
I simply do not believe the sheer number can be solely or even primarily due to no shows
Offer a full refund, minus a service fee, if the campsite is booked by another party after cancellation.
Additionally, if a site remains vacant for more than 48hrs, it should go back in the reservation system and the original guest should be notified by phone/text and email. I believe MI uses a system like this.
Make these sites private and things will improve much quicker, so will the quality of the facilities!
I quit going to public campsites due to lousy cleaning practices and pet regulations.
I’ll stick to privately owned sites…much better maintenance and pet control policies!
Before reservations were allowed we would literally go and park our RV from Monday or Tuesday to ensure our spot for the weekend desired. The campgrounds were full back then. There had to have been more revenue. There should be a full charge to no shows and a no cancelation without full charge the week prior.
Require a substantial deposit at time of reservation .Obtain an estimated time of arrival . If there is no show a certain number of hours beyond this time open up the site
The rates are too low for these sites when demand is so high. Many popular sites have to be booked the minute they are available online which sometimes is 6 to 9 months in advance. This incentivizes people to book longer blocks of time even without firm plans. With such a low rate for desirable product, people accept that they might need abandon the booking if their plans change. If they had seasonal and peak rates like hotels so rates are much higher on busy weekends people would think a lot harder– they will not want to walk away from it. If parks priced overnight campsite reservations 70 80 or even 100 a night they would see a change in behavior. I understand this brings up issues of equity and fair use of a resource etc., but this is the reality of what is happening. You need to have higher prices up front, you can’t penalize no-shows after the fact. They’ve paid full price and can do what they want with the site–including not using it!
I’m glad you realized 75$ a night would be out of reach for many that camp. That means it shouldn’t happen.
Send out a pack of wolves to maul the evil doers that’ll fix em!
Simple 24 hour confirmation system.
If you do not get your confirmation in 24 hours in advance you stand the chance of losing that spot.
Fair request.
If the campground gives a cancellation 4 days out they could put it in their website at half price that way they still give it half back to the original customer and the next customer pays half and a campsite still gets a full price for the campsite
Campground should call/email party to confirm if they do not arrive first day their site will be forfeited to drop in campers unless they contact campground ahead of time.
this could easily be done by the computer without any man hours involved. People could respond to computer. A report could be generated daily. Maybe send out a day before the arrival to check in
Yall could charge for the day. Homestly, if someone doesn’t show up by within 4 hours of their show time, assume they’re not coming and say they won’t get a refund. If they don’t show, that’s not your fault, they had all this time. Also allows yall to make extra cash
By booking the spot for the last minute showers
I have a problem with the automatic cancel if the person doesn’t show up. There are a ton of reasons someone might not make it to there first reservation night or 2 and still try to make it for the rest of there time. Mechanical issue and had to wait until next morning to get a part. Planed to leave after work then had to work late. Kid got an injury at school had to go to hospital but fine to go camping the next day. Why should that person loose the campsite that was booked and paid for 4 months in advance?
I agree, but communication is key. Should be that you have a 24 hr window to communicate your new eta or your reservation will be forfeited.
I think people would be more obliged to cancle if there was a penalty for not showing up. In other words: you will pay an additional fee on your credit card if you do not use/cancel your reservation. $10/night.
also: if you do not show up or call with an explanation of why you are late(coming on second day) and you have a multiple night reservation, the entire reservation will be cancelled and you will be charged $10 for each night you reserved.
It is a privilege they are squandering! Shouldn’t all bets be off! 🌵🌲🌴🌳🌓 Tenting It In Tuzigoot
Call and verify the reservation 48 hrs ahead. Tell campers if there is a no show after first day of reservation campsite will be given to someone else.
Have a refundable deposit at reservation time. That is only refundable if camper using reservation shows up.
If they reserve and don’t show up by 10an the next day, canx the reservation and provide someone else an opportunity. People are reserving multiple sites/locations, under different names, and choosing at the last minute which is not fair to others.
If the space is booked after you cancel you should be refunded in full.
The old way was the best way.Campsites were on a first come, first serve basis. Now you almost have to plan a year in advance to get a campsite. People reserve them for more days than they want to get a weekend and then start cancelling them by the day to get to the days they actually wanted. When you go online it will show everything booked up when most people aren’t going to camp all those days. Camping used to be a spur of the moment fun thing to do. Now it’s just a nightmare with empty reserved campsites that nobody can use. I’ve just about given up on camping because it’s turned into a nightmare and is very frustrating. Either make all reserved days no refundable to stop the overbooking of days or go back to a first come first serve system!
I couldn’t agree more! It’s frustrating to see sites reserved when trying to book. Go back to no reservations and first come first served. Some people just don’t care about losing money and not getting a refund.
First Come First Serve!
What about trying something like a cancellation waiting list? So if a camper who can no longer take the reservation wants to cancel and the spot can be filled, then they get their refund if it doesn’t they don’t. At least that way people have the opportunity to cancel and potentially get their money back. And people who really want those spots have the potential to get the spot.
This was going to be my suggestion as well. If the reserved spot is filled by someone else the park isn’t losing that money so a refund could be issued, but only if the spot is filled. If it’s not filled then no refund. I’m sure a detailed policy would be needed to implement this but I think it could be doable
I like this option the best! I was going to say the same thing. This is a really good idea 👍
Like this idea. Life happens so sometimes you can’t make it and the reservations are so far out who knows what’s happening in their lives 6 months ahead of time. Reservation windows might work better if they are only out a month in advance. Might be less no shows.
Pretty simple, make the fist person pay unless the last minute cancel spot is able to be filled and if the spot is able to be filled charge both parties a small transfer fee that equeals the average time it takes an employee to do the return and set up a last minute camp reservation. First person will be grestful fir getting majority money back but realize there was a restocking fee so to be sure in the future about plans with limited resources, last minute camper will be greatfull to get a spot without having preplanned months in advance and should not mind paying a convienience fee.
I think people should be required to confirm their reservation 24 hours in advance like airplane tickets, if they don’t confirm it, the site can be given out on a first come first served basis. the parks make double the money and don’t have to turn away campers who made the effort to come
Like this option, it is one we are all used to. (Doctors,Dentists, all use this.)
Only offer a refund if someone else books the campsite, whether it is months in advance or same day. This way there is always an incentive to commit to using the campsite or cancelling in advance so it is more likely to be reserved.
If you dont show up on the first day of your reservation your reservation is cancelled and your sight opens up for same day reservations. You also forfeit your money.
I also noticed this problem before Covid happened. I understand life happens and people need to cancel their weekend plans. Also understand that refunds are hard to give back on short notice. I believe a confirmation system, closer to reservation date should be in place,say a week out,that way the campsite can still offer the spot to someone else and the canceling person can get a refund. On top of this,if you cancel too close to reservation date and not entitled to a refund,if there is a interested party that would reserve that spot,you would be entitled to a refund. Maybe not the best ideas but something must be done to stop all these spots going unused when so many other people are interested . Thanks
Have a system where you get partial refund if you cancel too close to your reservation date, but if someone else grabs the sire you get full refund
Some companies accept returns of items with a re-shelving fee.
camp sites ought to consider this. If it gets filled by another camper- no fee. If it does not get filled you lose the reservation plus get a fee tacked on for costing the campsite money. There shouldn’t be a last minute or 24 hour refund. Few people actually decide to non plan and just show up and expect a camp site. They know it takes vacation time and planning. They should act accordingly.
If someone doesn’t show up for their first reserved night they will lose the entire reservation. Open that site up to first come first served until the end of the reservation. The park gets paid twice for the site.
Reservation for only 1/2 the campground if you don’t show by 500pm it is 1st come 1st serve. Other 1/2 would be 1st come 1st serve
I think if not there by 3:00pm, and no call to let park know you’re going to be late, then space should then become 1st come first served.
Allow cancelation at any given time. Within 3 days or 24 hours, partial refund and remaining is on hold until someone else is reserved that site. Also liable for a small processing fee.
Let the campsite management team can alter/edit reservation. Sometimes they can’t get access on recreation.gov. their updates should be updated on the recreation.gov as well.
Individual campsite contact information and email should be listed recreation.gov.
1 months or 45 days advance booking window. I am not such a planner. Most people reserves way far in advance and many sites at the same time. Good for them I guess.
That would mean campsites would need internet access. Most campsites don’t even have cell service.
Give us a one day prior or same day permits to local campers
I agree…help the local campers more
Allow people to transfer their campsite to someone else. Create a FB type of page where people can interact and transfer their site if they can’t make it.
Unfortunately, a number of locations have run into folks playing ticketmaster games scarfing up blocks of campsites the reselling them at a profit.
Set up a number where campers can call and inquire to a person for cancelled campsites available to rent.
First come first serve no reservations
It doesn’t work in older parks with limited large sites. We’ve all seen pop-ups in pull through spaces with empty back in spots near by.
I would never visit a campground with no guarantee I could get in.
Exactly!
I like this. There should be so many sites like this in campgrounds.
Agreed but for some silly reason I’m sure that won’t happen.
I guess I can see people not bothering to cancel if they’re not going to get a refund.
so if they can’t get a refund why not let them reschedule.
Also sending them some notifications that their camping date is soon. 1 notification so they’re able to get a full refund. 2nd notification if they decide to cancel they’re getting partial.
Also maybe a confirmation that hey let us know if you’re coming today or if you’re going to be late.
and if they no show then maybe have a temp ban on them
I agree with at least 24 hrs prior they can transfer it. I’d definitely do that!
For a full refund request must be 14 days. Partial 7 days.
My thoughts exactly
The most effective way to free up unused campsites would be to have all reservations come with a refundable deposit that is automatically returned if you show up. The deposit amount should be significant enough to motivate people to make timely cancellations.
We’ve been to way to many state and National park campgrounds with unused vacancies! Spots are tight on every weekend so someone needs to do something about it!
In this day and age, it would be as simple as placing a bar code reader at the campsite entrance and would require all campers to scan their bar code when they enter. No bar code read = no return of deposit. State park Campsites are all booked to capacity on weekends from San Diego to British Columbia. There are way too many unused “reserved” campsites. If you can afford the gas to drive to a campground, you can afford to put up a fully refundable deposit!
I like this idea. Our campground was a 1:00 check in and 12:00 checkout time. We were late getting there because of circumstances beyond our control but no way to call and say we were still coming. They took out the local ranger station because of too many floods. Our problems are not no shows but the lack of electric sites. There is only one electric site and it is booked months in advance. It’s hard because I require electric gif breathing machine, etc. There needs to be more electric sites, they’re always full and they would have more campers when the weather is so hot if they had more electric sites. That’s our biggest issue in going. You need to be able to contact camp host or campground. There are some good reasons like death in family where you can’t cancel till last minute or unexpected hospitalization.
??? I’m sure y’all have problem solved many senerios so I’m not sure my thought is any help?! Maybe no refunds if you cancel less than two weeks out. If you cancel before 2 weeks and the spot fills then they get a partial refund or discount for another ?unreserved?camping date. And the new reserving party gets a discount too👍. It may encourage both to make a decision sooner. And if campers knew they had a chance to get in last minute they may keep checking and take advantage of the discount. There are many last minute camper types out there.???
You could offer larger groups next to a vacated spot to spread out into it for a deep discount too:)? As more and more people want to camp the rules will have to change but if its a small local spot then maybe do what’s best for it. Good luck and see ya in the great outdoors:)
What if you campground had a policy to completely cancel a campers reservation without a refund if they are a no show by 1 oclock the day of check in for their whole reservation unless they make contact to confirm a late arrival checkin time.
I think it should be 24 hours before cancelling, just in case you have car issues on your way.
Also, it would be a total $heet show if everyone showed up at the same time to check-in. 24 hour window to arrive, or communicate with camp host if there has been a change in plans is quite fair.
My family camped for two months, two yrs ago and the rule then was, you had to occupy the site or anyone could take it. If you didn’t have a camper or tent set up when you rented it and have someone in the campsite that same day…your site would be given away.
Helllo—yes this makes sense—but that’s probably why they don’t do it!!!??? Something strange going on with everything to do with travel!!!
Stop making so many sites reservable. Go back to first come, first serve. Most don’t go camping because they assume they won’t find a site, since others reserve a half a year or more in advance and then don’t show. Also, if people don’t show up the first night, their reservation should be void at that point, opening it up for at least Saturday night or something. The caveat to that would be if they called ahead to let them know they’re coming Saturday even though they couldn’t make it on Friday…
So in other words, it’s the campground’s fault and they admit it. They prefer to keep the money if people don’t cancel. And if campers know they won’t get a refund less than two weeks out, they won’t take the time to make the cancellation call. That’s what they mean when they say they “can’t afford” a more flexible cancellation policy.
Campgrounds should get rid of the reservation plan and have first come first served. If they feel that they can’t get along without reservations. They should collect entire amount up front for stay with no refunds.
How about they give a full refund if they’re able to rebook the site with another customer, or refund whatever they’re able to rebook with a smaller cancellation fee.
Add a notice to the reservation process that you have say 12 hours from check-in to either check-in or contact the check-in station if you do not in that 12 hr window you forfiet your reservation.
It’s simple, If you don’t show by check-in time, perhaps a good faith extension of 1 hour is allowed followed up by a courtesy call made to the renter to determine arrival. If no answer or response within the givin time period is received, The site is rendered available. OR, in the web page, renters should have to “ check-in “ online and be provided a check-in code. Upon arrival to camp grounds, that code is to be entered onsite to validate and ensure arrival. The caveat is, if no code is entered onsite by a Specified time, the site becomes available Immediately. For those whom feel that if you paid for a site and never show, Suck it up and feel better about Yourselves, After all, you made a donation to the park services! 🙂
If the campground is fully booked, give a variable percentage of the rebooked site to those who confirm a cancellation. It gives those who will not show up at their campsite an incentive. If the camp is fully booked, they’re not losing out on selling an alternate site. The camp gets say 70 percent from two sales for a 140 percent sale.
I am at an absolute loss as how no one knows how to do with this. How would a hotel deal with this?? Don’t show up by a certain time, the spot goes to someone else. I mean this is so simple, what is the issue??
Hotels have desk clerks until 11 p.m or later The campgrounds are either unattended, or want to lock up the office at 6, or 5, or 4, and go home. They do not want to be bothered handling cancellations and registrations into the evening. Perhaps it is time they realized they are in the accomodation business and cannot keep gardener’s hours.
We stopped camping because we always were facing waiting months to a year out to reserve a spot. As for refunds , if there’s an emergency and folks need to leave and still had a day or two they should be refunded . A couple of years back we booked a campsite for a two weeks. A couple of days into the second week there was a family emergency. The park gave us a refund for the days we couldn’t stay.
Playing off of ParkstaffChick and Brianna–This is what I was thinking also- make the reservation system a combination/option to cancel for refund or put your site up for grabs- this way if I need to cancel, I can list my spot as ‘up for grabs’ for another person- then if they select it and pay, i get my refund in full.
I also like the ‘waitlist” notification system, so maybe a combination of both- I can add myself to a waitlist and as a spot opens, I get notification and have XX amount of time to respond or it goes to the next waitlist person- this way if someone cancels or puts a spot up for grabs, I can get notified.
I think the cancellation rules we accept as normal are truly insufficient. Covid has brought that to light, if someone who is planning a vacation gets sick and can’t go on their much awaited vacation, then they should have every right to cancel and get their money back for a service/rental area that they are not going to use at all. This whole reserve a camp site a year in advance is truly a pain, it completely negates those who want to go camping on a whim or along travel routes. That being said, I suppose SOME reservations might be good, and some left to walk ins could be a good mix. As for this situation, I would say that IF you’re going to stand by with the sad decision to put money over people, then the least one could do is say that IF you can’t make your reservation, let them know ASAP, and then IF they can rent that campsite out for some/all of that reserved time, then THAT money shall be returned to them in full. That would incentivize people to notify the campground.
As for some people saying things like if you’re not there the day of, or at a particular time, that’s ridiculous, people might be travelling a long distance and get delayed but still want their reservation there when they arrive. It must be notified that they are not intending to arrive. I’ve arrived several times late into the night because of travel time, and I still want my spot to be there when I arrive.
I agree, but the point is communication. If you are not going to arrive during the normal check-in window you have to communicate that to the camp host. Its not fair for your paid site to be given away, its also not fair to others for your paid site to sit empty because you failed to communicate that you are not actually coming. Refund or not
Penalty fee if you don’t cancel your reservation and leave it empty! And a penalty if you come on the first day but leave early by some margin without going online to cancel the remainder of the reservation. (Like if you don’t stay more than 50% of the reservation for reservations over 4 days.)
Why can’t they give a partial refund or even a total refund if it is canceled and someone else comes in and rents it for the same amount of time as previous camper? If the first camper cancels and second camper chooses the site for the exact time….win win situation for everyone
While I understand not providing last minute refunds, offering the option to cancel and providing a refund if the site is then occupied may help. If you get nothing the incentive is gone, however saying if you cancel and either someone else reserves the site or it is rented by someone showing up on first come basis you get a refund IF YOU CANCELED may give reason to cancel since then there is a chance you get something back
I am totally against making Reservation at all!!! Should only be able to reserve a week ahead—not months!!! Only have some Reserved sites and Rest first come first served!!! I as a senior can’t afford the extra amount to reserve!!! This system is NOT WORKING AND SHOULD BE CHANGED IMMEDIATELY!!! THIS IS JUST TERRIBLE HOW CAMPERS ARE TREATED!!!!
If you have to cancel let it be scheduled for a later date at the same price and that way everyone can be happy
If someone doesn’t show up within the first 24 hrs. of their reservation, and doesn’t call to confirm they are still coming, the site should be reopened for someone else to take. Simple as.
How about an auction website that the renter can use to ‘lease’ the site to another camper? At full price or discounted (depending on demand). He gets the refund (from the other camper) and the spot doesn’t go to waste. Some may even wait for spots at a discount instead of reserving at the camp administration.
Implement SMS cancelling to make it easy. Send text in advance of cancellation window with an easy way to cancel by clicking a button. Then let their fee roll over to another date of their choice.
Came here to say this.
First come, first serve like the old days. If all the campgrounds went back to this then more people could use them. If one campgrounds is full go to the next one. That’s how people find new adventures.
Easy. 2 level process.
1. At time of making reservations, add a $50 charge that will only be refunded if/when a cancellation occurs 48 hrs or more ahead of date of visit. This is in addition to site reservation fees.
2. Establish a mandatory same day confirmation call/text/email by Noon with the park services. No contact – park has right to give that site to next customer at Noon.
A wait-list would be established to facilitate this for campers ok with same day notice to arrive at campground.
Make a rule that, the party that has reserved the site but doesn’t show, has up-to 36 or 48 hours, on weekdays to notify the park they aren’t showing, or they forfeit the remaining time on the reservation, 24 hours on a weekend. Then rent the site out to someone else.
First come, first served. The only thing that should be available online is the number of vacant spots.
Simple. Hire an IT person capable of writing code to update reservation system to include a wait list for site. Campsites could make more money this way.
I like that idea. A simple email notification that goes out to wait-listers when a cancellation comes in.
Uh, maybe quit trying to run the forest like a business? Obviously if I am paying for something you don’t get to let someone else use it and charge them also.
It’s time to revise the policy, they should have to put half the deposit down for the space, and if they don’t show up or cancel their reservation one week prior to arrival they forfeit their deposit. Do like the rental car companies use to do, put a hold on the amount needed to rent the spot until they check out. If they choose to leave early, that’s on them they should not receive a refund.
In Indiana you have the option of paying a c small fee and use your remaining money to reschedule at a later time. Then the sites come open and others can use it.
My suggestion is you would give them 24 hrs to get into that space or it will be rebooked with someone else, and you’ll be charged for the balance of the full reservation, no refunds.
For resorts collect 100% of reservation upfront. With cancelation fees of 100% if guest cancels less than 6 months ahead of arrival Date or is a NO SHOW.
For campers plan ahead make your plans as definite plans as possible. BUY TRAVEL INSURANCE if you have any hesitation about your plans changing. Airline, Cruise Line Guests, Hotel guests etc… there are 3rd party licensed & bonded travel insurance companies that can be found on Google.
We have been camping for almost 35 yrs and we have never seen prices of campgrounds so high in price as it is now. So between the price of gas and the cost of living is the main reason people are cancelling.
Instead of not just showing up call and see if u can move ur reserv that way everybody would be happy.
We just had to cancel due to one of our friends having a health issue . We either lost our deposit or use the reservation next yr. There was no return of any monies even though we cancelled out 2 mo prior to trip.
I had the same thing happen earlier this year I broke my leg. We have a reservation for next year on the books same spot. That works for me!
Charge the campers extra for no shows or not canceling on top of non refunds. Put them on a blacklist so they can’t book future stays. Don’t hold reservations til next day. There must be strict guidelines to confirm if campers are going to show or not. Have an automatic text message to confirm camping reservation if arriving or not like a Doctors appt. Obviously there are things out of peoples control that can stop them from being able to use their reservation but they have to let the campground know.
Just put a surcharge on the people that don’t cancel and show up. It is a win win. If they don’t cancel the campground gets more money. It also motivates more people to cancel and they can rent put that site to more people and make for money of the site.
Higher cancellation fees, not lower, will induce campers to provide enough notice so that the site is not wasted. Work it just like hotel systems.
I 100% agree, it’s not like if they cancel Thursday, that gives someone much time to plan to head over on a Friday. State Parks would make a lot of extra revenue to help with staffing and maintenance. I say fine the no shows. I see this way too much in California after trying to make reservations in an already impossible system.
Is it possible to let them cancel last minute and get a credit for future use?
And even if they can’t cancel the first day or two, can they cancel the backend of their stay if it is far enough out?
We camped for 5 days at a new york state campground recently. We reserved 2 sites, the one site the people goingvwith us had to cancel last minute. We did check about refund they said no they don’t refund. That was fine it was last minute. What they do that is wrong is this! Instead of an empty site I asked can we give it to someone? Such as next person that wanted it during the 5 days we were there could just have it?( already paid for anyway!) NOPE! they said I could cancel and they would resell the site! Umm no nice try new york! Not selling the same site twice for same days. So if people are angry sorry but new york gets enough in other ways they don’t need to double dip
I should have the option to sell my reservation then. If I’m not going to get a refund 3 days out I should be able to sell it to somebody who wants it. Now that could be at a discount of what I paid say 75% of the cost. But that ensures that the site is going to be used.
I think the less favorable refund is fine. What I would like to see is the campground rules state that if the campers are not in their space by a certain time on the first day of their reservation it can become a first come site. We have gotten sites this way in different states. It might discourage weekend campers that book up all the sites but never show. Also keep track of the no shows and make reservations more difficult for these people. Campgrounds can also keep a small number of sites only available to book within a 2 week arrival period to the first date if the reservation.
Our campground issues a full refund if we can rebook the site. If we cannot rebook, you get a partial refund up until the day before check in.
I agree that finding space has become a nightmare turning people off to camping. My daughter bring one of them. I don’t believe it should be first come first serve either usually we drive 6-8 hours that would make it impossible for us. How about after 24 hours no one shows up or calls they forfeit the site no refund. Thank you
Simple. To reserve a spot you agree to a $50 extra fee going on your credit card on file, for each night you had booked but didn’t show or cancel. Simply call or cancel online and the extra fee is waived. But if you don’t show and don’t cancel, it’ll cost you. The problem will be solved immediately.
Set up a transfer system online where people can “release” their reservation (partially or whole). Make it so the person releasing has a credit/debit/PayPal/whatever linked to the site to get their “refund” through and add a small transfer fee that goes directly to the campground (campsites are generally inexpensive so a 10% fee on a $25 site wouldn’t break the bank).
It can be set up so that when you’re online looking for sites there’s an option in addition to the normal available sites there’s an available for transfer option. Transfers are final, no refunds.
As far as who pays that fee, as an avid camper – if there’s no other sites available I wouldn’t bat an eye at paying something so nominal.
I suggest that if you have not checked in by the next following day of your reservation and/nor did you cancel the site it should be able to be available to someone else.
I experience the site unavailability. I would say that you need to upcharge for registration, and get the extra portion back when you arrive, and give less return should they cancel. Too many book for 5 weeks to be sure they get the one or two weeks they want, and dont care about wasting the money for overbooking. Lastly, you can book x days out, if you are registered for a site already, the next booking should be x-plus 3 days out, and the next x-plus 6 days out thereby making it easier for the person getting their one booking.
Its easy if a reservation doesnt show by a certain time make it available to rent. People can upgrade if they want. Or make it first come first serve cutout reservations altogether.
Exactly would be no worry about refund or Check in check out times. Etc
No shows should forfeit their site if they do not occupy the site by the next days check-in time.
You should have till 8pm to check in. If you don’t arrive before that then you forfeit your spot. No refunds.
no way… thing’s happen that causes people to be late… flat tires.. accident ect…
As long time campers(I started as a backpacker when I was 16) my wife and I get into the woods as often as possible. We very rarely cancel, nature is beaumtiful in the rain as long as you’re equipped. If we can’t make it, we cancel as soon as we know we can’t make it. We just consider it a cost almost akin to a membership. You have to support campgrounds so they continue to exist. Simply pay up, whether you go or not,but cancel your reservation . Unless you are being held hostage,you’re the reason that site is empty. Release the site, if you get a refund, great. Otherwise pay your dues and don’t inconvenience other campers. The more people who live in nature,albeit temporarily, the greater the awareness of our environment, something we should be in favor of.
There is a check in time for most campgrounds/RV Park (if there isn’t there should be). If someone hasn’t checked in by quiet time, at the latest, the reserver is charged for 1 night (the lost night rental) and the site is available to be rented the next day. Many public campgrounds that I have stayed it made it a requirement that the first night had to be occupied or the rest of the reservation was forfeited along with the first night’s site rent. It always made good sense to me. To be honest, I thought they all operated like that.
Easy answer. You will have a full refund if you cancel AND site was taken by anotger camper.
Keep the no refund policy but add a late cancellation fee inside of 24 hrs. Plus a No Show fee, enough that it is still advantageous to the client to cancel even though they don’t get a refund.
When a reservation doesn’t show, after a night missed with no phone call to the ranger station or wherever they check in, open the site on a first- come basis. If someone wants that site who is already there & they tried to get that site reserved online,, the rangers could have a waiting list started so if it becomes a “no show”, the ranger could let the first on the list have it.
I rem e mber my folks standing in line to get sites at campgrounds. It could be done again for the “no-shows’.
Yes! 1st come 1st served and we would be that family
How about allowing people to cancel but they will only get a refund if the site can be resold?? That way everyone wins
They would do it agaim
If someone cannot make their reservation, there should be some type of transfer program where they can get a refund via the person who takes over the reservation.
No refund at all !! People who don’t show reserved it just I case they really decided to go
Toni Warren
42 seconds ago
My family camped for two months, two yrs ago and the rule then was, you had to occupy the site or anyone could take it. If you didn’t have a camper or tent set up when you rented it and have someone in the campsite that same day…your site would be given away.
You have until 6pm to arrive at your reserved campsite on the first day of reservation. After 6pm it’s first come open to public. If this happens you get %0 refund and if it happens 3 times you lose the privilege of reservations and remaining future reservations for season are cancelled (with refund). The park may also collect camp fees from lucky campers that filled site after the no show.
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Don’t agree with you here. A lot of times my family gets to the camping site late due to having to work that day. Wouldn’t be fair if we should up after 6pm and our spot was taken. We do always notify the parks that we will be a showing up late just so that we don’t run into the possibility of someone else taking our spot. I agree with others saying that if someone cancels a reservation without much notice, the only way they would get a full refund would be if someone else checks in to that site
Not sure how you would enforce the privilege restriction as online options would likely circumvent this, but I like the idea as too many folks who feel they have a right to reserve spaces a year out without making good on the reservation are the problem. Even if the campground gets their money for a no show, the problem of the site not being used still persists. Ultimately, the convenience of being able to book so far out is the underlying issue. Sadly, it’s being abused.
That’s a start
Could late cancellations offer to re-sell their spots, like some apartments people who want to leave before the lease is up need to pay until another tenant is found?
No refunds of any kind inside 30 day window. Instead, the fee will be waved if someone else rents the site. This would encourage folks to be prompt about cancelations and would open the spots up to last minute folks who happened upon an extra day or so of vacation. Perhaps they won the state lottery allowing them to fill the tank of a rig that gets 4 to 12 mpg’s under load.
I’m guessing you never had an unexpected flat tire.
It’s not that difficult. Plan ahead. If you’ve made a reservation, plan ahead. Everyone has emergencies. I get that. But if someone were planning on arriving at 11pm and had a flat, well, maybe people should plan on arriving much earlier. I’m tired of all these excuses. There’s no accountability anymore. Everyone seems to have a “legitimate” reason nowadays. Too bad. I’m tired of them. People are too self centered and don’t care about anyone. If you leave for your destination in plenty of time and have a flat, well change the flat and still arrive before 10pm.
Price of gas or fuel should have nothing to do with it. If you want to camp you camp. Quit denying people that chance. Go back fist come
Charge the full amount that it will cost to stay for the full time.
There should be a refund policy for a taken over campsite. If you make it available again and someone else book it you could get full refund. There would have no impact to the campsite and people that are interested in the last minute would still be able to enjoy.
I agree! They make it harder than it should be.
If they weren’t going to show up anyways, they would lose their money either way. Why refund it?
How about using a 3rd party. That party is responsible for re-booking unused sights and gets a percentage of the camp fees in return. Seems like a win-win-win.
Start a camping service similar to “Ticketmaster” (which allows users to purchase other users unused reservations for shows, sports events etc). Call it Campingmaster, let me purchase another persons unused reservation, that way they get their money back, and I get a camping spot!
Been going to Bishop for years first come first serve. We would have several camp sites 15 – 25 people. Now its to much of a hassle so noone goes. Past couple 0f years it’s reservations only .this year I got a hotel in town went to check out my normal camping site camp grounds were 2/3 empty and the camp host said they are reservations only. They should charge double for people that don’t show up. And have half the sites for first come. I always or did look forward to my weekly camping and fishing trip.
In many campgrounds they should just say if you don’t show up or call to say your going to be delayed by a day then that following morning they forfeit any refund and u open up the site to be resold that is double money for the park. Of course those with no phone service would have to come up with a different plan.
Inform those who cancel at last minute, they ‘may’ receive a refund if someone else books the site. The campground already has the original booking fees, when (and If) the site is re-booked, half of the second booking fee goes to the park, and half goes back to the original booker. That way the park actually would make 150% of an original booking. EX: site 1 $20 a night for 3 nights = $60. Cancelation at last minute, someone else books the site = Another $60. Park gets $90 for 1 3 night stay, and cancelation gets $30 back. 2nd reservations made through the “contact me if site opens up” link.
We, too, have experienced many campgrounds posted as full that have many unoccupied campsites as we traveled across the United States. Very frustrating. I think the system is set up for failure. It pushes people into making reservations six months in advance that they might, or might not, use. But they make them “just in case”.
Keep about 30% of campground spaces as first come first served. This allows for some spontaneous planning and keeps options available for people who haven’t planned 6 to 12 months in advance where they are going to be and allows for some flexibility and travel.
If a campsite is not occupied by the second day at 1 p.m., the reservation is forfeited and the site becomes available on a first come first serve basis for the remainder of that reservation.
Incentivize people to cancel in advance and make the system easy to cancel a reservation.
If you are a no-show for night 1, without calling to confirm you will be showing up for the rest of your reservation, you lose access to the rest of your reservation and someone may now book your site.
I would have then give credit for another time, if someone else reserves the spot. This allows the site to keep the money now, but open up the sites for others to pay for if possible. And that persons money could be use as at another time. If no one does reserve that spot then they loose it. I would give till a few hours before check in.
This would all be done online only to free up the phones and staff.
Put a place in the app that people can show if they aren’t coming. Other people could pay them directly
Who doesn’t have refund/ cancellation policies? However, if the Campground or Recreation.gov (Camp employees) could release the reserved empty sites after 24 hours, (offer first come first serve AGAIN!) open them up and sell the site again, everyone wins. Recreation.gov makes more money actually and we are all happy campers. We use to load up and hope for a spot and usually we were lucky.
This is simple concert tickets get resold to avoid the refund issues. Create a buy and sell section on the web site. I have a site not going to make it so I list it and someone else buys it I transfer it to them. Issue resolved
Charge a refundable campsite hold fee. If they cancel the reservation (regardless of how late it is) , or if they show up, they get that money back.
However if they do not cancel, and they do not show, they forfeit it.
Call it something which explains its purpose too so people get its not just a money making thing.
Treat the campsites just like hotels treat a reservation. You reserve a room and don’t call to let them know you’re going to be late, after 8pm they rent your room. If you don’t have the courtesy or good sense to contact them before closing time to advise them of your schedule, why would you expect them to hold your place. Nobody else would.
Camper notifies park that they wont be using site. Dates are noted by the park. If they fill it they issue a refund.
I think that would be best and is fair to both campground and camper
+1
Two other options
1. If you cancel, any unrefunded amount is credit toward a future reservation, use within 18-24 months.
2. Add a penalty for no-shows – delay ability to reserve by 2-4 weeks, letting people who show up get priority.
Refund policy doesn’t matter. Not one bit. Any argument saying that’s why sites are reserved and not used is absolutely ludicrous. If they don’t show and don’t cancel, they don’t get money back anyways. Come on people, use your head. It’s called common sense. It come down to no showers being disrespectful to people that would show up and use the site. If no notes have been made for delayed arrivals then after the first 24 hrs, that empty sire should be made available again. And, ready for this!? Rent the same site out a second time to someone who shows up, and the park made TWICE the money on one site. Refund policy has NOTHING to do with no shows.
Some of the coe parks already do that. If you don’t check in by check out time the following day, your reservations are canceled
Sometimes we pay for an extra night at the front of the reservation to get the sites we want. Do not give the site away if people do not show up the first night. I paid for that site. Ur friends do the same.
That’s fine but tell campground that’s what you are doing
Full refund up to day of check-in. Establish a confirmation system so campers confirm arrival 1 week prior to arrival, otherwise open site to others. Confirmed arrival and no show? Fine them 30%!
It’s pretty simple – you must be in your reserved campsite by 10pm the first night or you lose your entire reservation. Can’t do that? Make your own adjustments and stop thinking purely of yourself. Many people lose out because you can’t get it together or have have too much money and just reserve and then don’t care.
I work midnights and sometimes reserve the night before so I can arrive right after work. It’s not worth it for me to go at 4 pm. So that would really hurt me. I mean I get out of work at 6 and if going locally am setting up by 7 or 8 am then I go to bed.
I agree. We sometimes camp 2 hrs. away from home and reserve the night before so we can be there at 8 or 9 am and spend the whole day there. We have even paid for Friday thru Monday so we can get there early Saturday and leave late Sunday. So maybe a text from the park saying you have reservations, are you coming? If you click no, on the reservation site drive ups available should show for travelers.
I agree. Automatic cancel the reservation and have it as a first come first serve site. Our parks are very generous to give any refunds within 4-5 days out. even if it’s by noon the following day to accommodate the people that really were only delayed. It’s a small fee lost but most people know if a trip will be canceled a week out. Its really just inconsiderate of them to not cancel. Heck I give double the fee when I’m only doing my day trips. Its not a lot and those fees help pay for the upkeep of the places I love to go. it suck’s seeing an open spot vacant when many people including myself would gladly pay the fee to stay there.
A no-show penalty fee!
Do what hotels do. If cancel 7 days in advance you get a refund. From 7 to 24 hrs 50% refund. Reservations are good until 1800 unless you confirm late check in on that day. If not checked in by 1800 entire reservation is concidered canceled. There would be exceptions for emergencies, ie: accidents, breakdowns, etc. That can be covered by a phone call until arrival than proof provided.
Many times we have decided last minute to get away for the weekend only to find we need a res to get a campsite . However hiking thru the campground many of the sites were empty Saturday still w res for some party that never showed! First come first serve that’s the answer to happy campers. Michael Swofford
With respect first come first served would not work for all. We camp sometimes for a week or more. We can’t show up for long periods of time not knowing if we have a site or not. With that being said same sites could be set aside for FCFS definitely. Our family would never abuse the reservation system but we know people who do and they work it good to their advantage not caring about others at all.
It use to be if you didn’t show up the first night of your reservation you lost your spot. I think they need to go back to this. We were camping thus weekend and saw this happen no show. Then there were people looking for spots for overnight and couldn’t find any.Peopld traveling need to be able to pull in to spots not occupied .
Rvers, which I am not, are ruining camping for low income families. Y’all don’t care if you reserve a site and don’t go. Even in this column the writer states that most of the empty campsites don’t have hookups, like they don’t matter. I wish Reserve America would get hacked and shut down for good.
Totally agree, campsites should answer their own phone and make their own bookings. They are the only ones on site that know what is going on
Go back to first come first serve. It worked back then.all of the out of states are doing most of it. I’ve been there for two weeks at a time with people wanting to camp but the empty sites were reserved and could not. That pisses me off to no end. We all took a chance and drove up get a spot if one was open.
Absolutely
I think it should be first come first served. We have camped Corp of engineer Campground for 30+ years. There wouldn’t be no need for return policy. I been camping in Bath Co Virginia when I seen people come in traveling from PA. But was denied a spot because they hadn’t had a reservation. Needless to say that spot plus others remained empty. The people were only staying overnight.
That’s how they do it in Ely NV, first come first serve
As a campground host we seen the sites rented and no one there,so we would call and see if they were coming and most of the time they were but every now and then they would just ask us to cancel the reservation for them because they forgot about it or they were camping elsewhere. Some times their camper was in the shop or their tow vehicle was broke down. As a camp host don’t be scared to call and check on reservation,cause you might just be able to make someone else happy.
There must be an adequate refund system otherwise people won’t bother to cancel. I suggest 100% refund the first time, 90,% the next 80% the next etc. This will eliminate repeated non cancelers. OR a fine if you are a no show and restrictions on booking on rec.gov. for no shows.
Allow campers to try to sell their campsite to the next person. If they can sell it, maybe they lose a small transaction fee. If they don’t sell it, campsite doesn’t lose.
This won’t work because people (and “companies”) would try to make a business out of this idea.
A seperate website could be set up were campers who want to cancel their reservation could potentially sell it for the full price and a ticket could be issued that reflects the transfer of reservation to the new camper. The price would be the same so people do not reserve with the intent of trying to sell them for more.
Scammers would LOVE this! 🙂
There should be a way that if someone cancels a site regardless of refund they are automatically released for someone else to reserve.. There are so many campers that look for last minute sites. They should not reflect reserved if someone has cancelled 8 or less days prior. Then the site is left empty when someone would reserve. I have logged into websites looking for last minute cancelations 2 days prior to no avail.
Suggestion: Double the price of the campsite fee when booking and offer half of the fee back after actually showing up to camp. Example: a $50 per night site would be $100 to book online and after they show up, camp and check out, they would get refunded $50. There would be less reservations and no shows. If they don’t show up, the campsite just got paid for 2 nights! Also it would bode well on last minute cancellation too! Only offer half refund days 3-9, but full refunds 10 or more, that way if they cancel in that timeframe, you could still guarantee the site gets its normal $50 per night but opens the site for others to book and generates more money for the campsite. Basically it forces the no shows to pay up or loose money and still allows others to book, really a win win for everyone except the no show people.They either pay double the rate to no show (day 1&2) or only get half back (days 3-9) yet it still offers people to book over those cancellations.
I like this idea.
Agreed
Out standing idea, simple yet effective
I think if they would allow cancelations up to 48 hours prior with the first night lost if you cancel and as long as you call and cancel within the 48 hour window if the site got rented for the entire time you canceled then they would refund your money. That gives some incentive to cancel. Or I would also be fine with if you don’t call and cancel they will not let you reserve again! Of coarse unless there was a circumstance that you physically were unable to cancel.
I think the problem is, people are reserving and not showing up. It sucks because of they’ve rented for a week and don’t get there for 3 days, the site is still there’s. I say call the day before, reconfirm the Reservation and if they aren’t going to make it, refund with fees and rerent.
Have a website so they can post it for rent but at no markup.
Use same rules but add a 24 hour rule. Take the payment and be clear that for multi-day reservations, if the first 24 hours are missed, they lose the site with no refund.
Great idea
If they cant show up within 2-4 hours of the check-in… they should lose it with no refund. Most of these folks reserve like 3-6 months out and take-away from other families looking for spots. Plus our park system could use the donations from folks who can’t show up when they reserved 1-6 months out…. maybe less people will be reserving 1-6 months out if this was policy.
Honestly I had one year when I went to jasper and spent all day trying to find a camp site. Since then I book within the first week they open reservations and book months in advance. Do i like it? No. But its the way the world works now. It’s my spot I paid for it. Even if it stays empty…. Deal with it, it’s mine.
I find that very selfish
Maybe that’s why the world is the way it is today!!!
This is the attitude that has gotten us where we are today. What has changed in people’s lives that they think they are the center of the universe. Everyone knows people are out looking for spots. Just selfish.
This attitude is beyond selfish.
Do you mind me asking what campground is in the pic? Thank you
I agree there should be a fee for canceling RV spots, but it should be really easy to cancel and not be a 10 step process, and just a fee and not the whole cost. Some program should be written so that you can offer up a site and the waiting list gets notified and someone agrees to pay for your site and take the reservation and then you get a refund minus a fee. At the very least there should be a way to sign up for text messages to remind ppl when they have a reservation and a link to cancel. Like, last day to cancel with fee, last day to cancel with partial refund, etc.
Let them cancel online, they get a refund if site gets rented, minus a surcharge for the change. If not rented, no refund
This is good, it would encourage them to cancel earlier to have a better chance of someone else taking it.
Make campsites like airline seats where you have to check in 24 hours before arriving or loose the site no refund
I really like this idea. My main concern is that it could be a real problem for people who are camping at multiple spots and may not have cell or wifi reception.
A phone call to an automated system would fix that…. enter your res number. Press 7 to confirm your arrival or 8 to make it available to other campers. People can find a phone.
That’s a great idea
It is really a simple thing. NO RESERVATIONS period. First come first served. We have been in several parks this year from FL. NY, to WI, and now Canada. Many do not reserve sites and still are full. Make your reservations verify and check in by 2PM, if not site goes to first come
I support this. Checkin by 2pm or lose your site. Plan accordingly or someone else gets to enjoy the privilege. Fully support NO RESERVATIONS.
true, or they only reserve a percentage and remaining are FCFS.
For instances when a person has reached the point where no refund is given and they lose all their money on the site, they just need a programmer to build into their online system (since lots use the same service) a way for someone to put their site back into the available status and if it gets rented then they get their money back for the days rented and lose money for days that don’t get rented.
Very good idea!
How about this, if a campsite is reserved, and the person(s) don’t show up, then make it immediately available after the check in time elapses (unless a phone call is received in regards to a later than normal arrival, ie traffic, etc). It may not fill up that day, but will most likely fill up for the next day. Or another scenario as above, but have a short list to call in case of cancellations or no shows.
How about travelling through to halfmoon bay, California where there are a ton of retirees who leave their halfmillion dollar rvs in spots then reserve an empty space for 6 mos out of the year next to it so no other campers can camp there. Weak, and they shut the gate after 8 to basically control who goes in and out, basically a gated community in a state park. And if you’re reading this i hope you get caught doing that. Because you were the rudest freakin people to me. You guys are the worst halfmoon bay, and rangers working there, I’m disappointed in you, and the rude elderly people living in that park.
People shouldn’t be allowed to hold empty campsites over the weekend as this seems to be the busiest time of the week people get out to camp. Or have only a 2 day holding period with no refund, this will maybe motivate people to actually stay on their site as they won’t be getting a refund.
Reduce the time for reservation down to no more than 3 months and for State Park provide priority to the residents.
I don’t think double dipping should be allowed, meaning, the site is paid for, if the person can’t get a refund no one else should be amble able to pay and take the site, thus double dipping.
Just recently our daughter had to cancel, she only got abt 1/2 refund, yet all the nights ended up with paid campers. That’s not right.
If campergrounds aren’t giving a full refund, they aren’t loosing a thing.
This who pay and don’t show shouldn’t loose thier spot, they just may not be able to make it the 1st night.
I get not being able to camp due to full campsite, plan better, we have.
There should be more fist come first serve spots. Not to eliminate reservations all together but it makes it extremely difficult when reservations are needing to be made months in advance just to get a spot. Life happens and sometimes plans made months ago don’t pan out.. plans change. Some people like myself enjoy a last minute, “hey let’s go camthis weekend”
Due to the limited resource of available sites, sites with reservations need a timeframe window of 4hrs. (2hrs. on ea. side of expected “appointment of arrival time”). If the site is Not occupied within that window, the site becomes available for others. IF the site is rented, the campground receives extra income during the period the original reservation is paid for by the no-show (the existing cancellation & partial refund policy remains as it is now).
Perhaps it would behoove the campground to reconfirm the reservation the day before and if they are not coming, open it up for new campers coming in. Have a wait list and call first on the list. Or leave it open and rent to daytrippers passing thru. I would think it would be more cost effective this way.
How would a campground confirm the reservation? Phone call? E-mail? That is a lot of labor on the campground’s end. IF reservations are needed, then just like hotels only hold until 6 pm. You want a late checkin? It will cost you more money and the empty site is sold to walk ins the next day. Just like hotels. Don’t like a 6 pm check-in time? Take an extra day vacation time or leave earlier…
This could be an opportunity for the campgrounds to actually make money. Keep a similar refund policy and REQUIRE campers with reservations to check in or somehow confirm intended arrival prior to 4 pm on the day of checkin. Campsite would then be able to charge 2x for the same site/date for no-shows. Unfortunately, this solution is really only beneficial when no-shows book several days and campers have a chance to respond.
Regardless, it would be great to find a solution. It’s unfortunate we can’t just rely on people being considerate enough to cancel. Good luck on making change!
How about charge a large amount for the reservation. When you show up, you get most of it back. If you cancel, you get all of it back. If you no-show, you lose it all.
As a seasoned goer of campgrounds, I too am sick of empty reserved sites. This last trip, we actually dropped a deposit slip on an empty (yet reserved) site after talking with a park ranger. He let me know that if the original party arrived, we would be asked to leave. After a 6hr drive with kids in tow, this sounded reasonable to me. We ended up having a great 2 day stay without having to leave.
Bottom line, I think if a party doesn’t show by noon on the second day of there reservation it should be forfeit to the next party seeking a site. Humans are hoarders and if left uncontrolled we may lose the ability to enjoy our parks all together.
Why not grant credit for a future stay instead of a refund?
I would set a time limit if they’re not there by 1:00 p.m. to claim their camp spot it will be rented to someone else.
state parks have a stupid policy anyway. someone was leaving early and gave us their site that was paid for. we tried to go pay for our nights and they said we had to move because the site was already leased to that person even if they were not there. as if it were a land owner lease arrangement.
completely stupid.
after all the contact info you have to put in, they could find out if you are coming or not.
if you don’t show up within 24 hrs. of the first booked day then someone can take the site and you lose for being unreliable. if you contact to cancel the day before then you lose half.
I am tired of booking a site I don’t want just to take the family camping and show up and all the booked sites I wanted are empty the whole time I am there because people didn’t show up.
Really making me not want to use campsites that have these stupid policies.
I call BS they absolutely could afford it. Give the refund if it gets rented. In these popular areas there is always someone who wants it. Let there be a standby list for cancellations there are many creative ways to keep all parties satisfied.
Have a cut-off point like hotels. If you do not guarantee a late arrival the site becomes available at 6 PM
Let others take the empty spots, and if that happens, refund the no-shows. If you can’t be bothered to all and cancel, you should lose the spot.
If the reservation misses a check in by 3 or 4 hours, rent the site to first-come campers. Explain on the reservation site that this will happen, and that there will be no refunds. Our parks are not ” Hotels” “Reserve at your own risk” and show up Ready to camp!
If somebody books a site 5 months in advance…. why can’t they show up on time? And why should sombody else not be able to stay at that site? “No Refund for the lost reservation, and more money added from the new campers”. People who can outright pay for stuff 5 or 6 months in advance should weigh the risks before reserving and ruining fun for other families who need a spot. Put that in clear writing on your website, and I believe people will hesitate to reserve 6 months in advance, and more money could be made from folks who are willing to double your money because they are there and ready to camp! Parks need donations from people who don’t follow through with plans!
Try a on line site where poeple can maybe or trade sites and dates, the camp ground could charge a small fee for using the site, some poeple would get some money back, others would get a site at a cheaper rate, just a thought.
I like the suggestion below, if you cancel and it gets rented, you get a full refund.
Give a credit for next year not a refund
It’s pretty straightforward in my mind. If there is no refund for cancelation, then the people who have booked it have no in incentive to do a cancelation.
Maybe the park service can come up with other non financial incentive, like being eligible for early registration next year, or direct notification for site availavility during rest of season,or a discount on later reservation.
Let’s go back to what worked for years, no reservations. Let the people coming out have the sites. If that is too harsh then a site open for 24 hours pat the initial reservation date goes back on the market.
If someone cancels when they can’t make it regardless of the lead time. Someone else could use the site. Offer the people that cancel a partial refund based upon the people that reserve at the last minute.
Unless you call to keep your reservation, the site will be available for other campers 24 hours after you missed setting up. Either on-line or “walk-ins”. It is done at other camping places. 😁
Limit the number of reservations and the rest are first come first serve. Charge higher fees for a reservation. After 4pm on the day of reservation it becomes available to the first person in person on the wait list.
I say increase the initial charge for reservation, but upon checking in the discount applies. For those who reserved and not bothered to cancel stands to lose a lot more.
More walk-ups is the solution. Most CA State Parks offer zero opportunities for travelers who don’t book 6-12 months in advance. Controversial I’m sure, but I don’t agree with refunds at all.
I prefer to say that when you Reserve a site, if you don’t check in within the first 24hours, you forfeit the site. It then opens up and others can utilize it. Essentially, you snooze you lose.
Although a refund may work for many mega RV res…its possible to make license plate limitations .. 3Rd cancellation and that plate is out of any refunds…ending abuses…
Add a clause on the cancelation policy. Any reservation that is a no show the first morning 8 am after the day of required check-in will open the site available for reservation. That way people that are running late can still have opportunity to camp. If they are not there by 8am the website posts the opening. Hope this helps! Love, your fellower camper
Thanks for bringing this up. It is so frustrating to go through a camp area tired late at night and all the empty sites are reserved. And no one around to use the site. Yes go back to first come. Or if no show by seven pm then that site is up for grabs. I’ve so often parked over night illegally hoping a ranger would bust me so I could complain to someone. I usually leave very early and never yet been busted. Feels weird to do this, would much rather pay a fee and sleep deep without concern. This needs to change to first come first serve. Thanks again for highlighting this issue.
Inflation….
Gas
Food
Need I say more…
Ppl prefer to lose what the parks are charging, which has also gone up, instead of having a bigger hole in their pockets.
I retired to my new used camper from Illinois to Indiana. I did this because I knew my grands would not be excited to come see me in an apartment but living next to an amusement park would interest them. Some have lost their jobs completely. It takes a while to get that cash flow again. They call saying they don’t have the gas money or they had to go to the food pantry to survive. On a fixed income now I can’t afford to furnish them financially for the entire weekend. So the cancellation call comes in. And they don’t even have to pay for the camping! They can stay with me!
I make reservations for my job for college students and some places have 2 night minimums but we only need one night, I understand the campsite needing the income but it leaves a site open the second night after we already left. Finding a way to make it available to a waitlist would be ideal. I need to plan and reserve the sites months in advance but I know I only need one of the 2 night minimums required.
If campers can’t get refunds, let them sell their reservation to other campers.
That leads to reselling sites for profit which creates its own problems
No way, that would a business for some
People and bots would be more involved that they are now.
A refund on a percent basis. 100% 7-10 days and goes down to 20% @ 24hr cxl OR a booking fee returnd at ck in or cxl 48hrs prior, but rental fee is kept unless 2 weeks cxl is given.
Handle camping no shows like motels mostly do. If the “renter” is not there by 6:00pm, they forfeit their reservation and the space is released for others. But allow for late arrivals.
I totally agree with your comment, if they are going to be a late arrival then call the campgrounds and let them know they will arrive later but if not there by the next day unless notification is given then that site will be available for reservations by another camper and at that point no refund will be given! how hard is it to pick up the phone and notify the campgrounds office that camper would forfeit his refund, and in turn give someone else an opportunity to reserve, we haven’t camped in almost two years can’t get in the campgrounds we travel too but yet drive through it and there are campsites sitting empty .
If someone else books the days the first group cancels but no refund if the sites remain empty.
Say there’s a 100 campsites and campsite #3 is currently booked by people who would like to cancel.
Then picture yourself rolling up on campsite #3 and thinking that the #3 campsite would be perfect for yourself.
Would it be reasonable for you to be able to buy out the contract for campsite #3?
It really is very simple. When reservations want to cancel within the non refund window, let them know that if they cancel their reservation and someone new reserves the site they canceled they will receive a refund minus a $10 process fee. If no one reserves their cancelled site they will not receive a refund for the first two nights but a full refund after minus a processing fee. This can all be handled by a computer program so there won’t be any cheating nor any human on the payroll, therefore saving the cost of hiring people to handle it. When I stay at a park and I really want to stay I have had to choose a different campsite for each day. It doesn’t really matter to me because I clean everything up and put everything away every day. This is another thing a computer program can handle when you first try to reserve a spot. The other thing you can do is have people put themselves on a waiting list and have the computer notify them when a site is available for them.
I think this is a reasonable approach but maybe a challenge to implement.
At a minimum send a day before a reminder with a one click cancellation action so it’s very easy to cancel
I think reservations are a must. I have three kids and can’t just show up to a camp site hoping something is available. However, if there is no refund, then why make the effort to cancel ypur reservation? Parks should either provide a refund, maybe up to 24 hours in advance. Or like many others are saying, get a full refund if it gets booked the next day. Either way, if you don’t show, it should open up the reservation for others next morning.
As a camp host for the USFS I have always release reserved sites if not occupied the first night just as it states at every USFS campground I’ve ever been to. It reduces unused sites and adds to the revenue that supports that campground.
If all government campgrounds followed this policy they would benefit greatly.
No refunds
If you cancel book that one site that’s undesirable or no show to that party. Freeing up the more desirable site to be rented
Have a cancelation board where a new camper could take over the canceled campers reservation and reimburse the original camper a 30% refund. What they would gain would be a new camper family that might use the campground way more then the original reservationist .
Have an open waiting list? The camper may have the option to give or re-sell their site to another camper on the waiting list or someone of the camper’s choice.
They could make more money by no call no show and re-rent the site after 24 hrs. I also bought a smaller (20 ft) off grid so I can field camp of needed. You need to allow for late arrivals and for folks to call if they get hung up due to breakdown, traffic, or weather but sites should not sit empty for days because of no call no show campers.
I think a refund should definitely be given if there’s enough notice. However if it is a last minute cancellation, as long as the campground can fill the spot then a full refund or a partial refund should be given back. If it’s a no-show then you should still cancel them out and allow somebody else to go in, And if they do two no-shows in a one-month period or 30-day period then they should be penalized for 3 months of not being able to do reservations at whichever campgrounds they’re going to or they had the no-shows for.
Double dip. If someone has reserved and haven’t shown up and you have tried to reach them, rent the site. Let the new campers take it, with the understanding they may have to move to another site. If you don’t have another site to offer give the new campers the refund.
Just go back to first come first serve ..There was no problems with it that way .If people can’t get there in time to get to a good site then they should plan it out better ..Maybe perhaps have someone go there say a day early and get the site .That is what we do when we can .That way we have a good site
Go to first come first served
Yes. This was how it was when I was a kid. It worked fine…
We ran into this issue last week. We couldn’t get a water site however found many to be empty the entire time. It was very frustrating. I checked Reserve America every day and found no openings. I asked at the check in booth why that might be as they only hold a reservation for 24 hrs. They stated that they put it in their system as available but evidently there is a disconnect on Reserve America’s end. Even more frustrating is you aren’t allowed to just book through the campground who knows that the sites are available – you have to book through R.A. who doesn’t show any availability.
Is suggest that if someone reserves and doesn’t show up within 24 hours the space is reopened to people who would want it. That way the park doesn’t have to lose revenue but gets the opportunity to sale the spaces twice over. There are plenty of us who’d love that opportunity. Changing the refund policy is a recipe for more abuse of the system.
Would the parks not still be ahead if, in prime months, the charged a larger reservation fee, and that was all you lost when cancelling let’s say 48hrs before arrival? I am on a notification list for many parks and then could book. They would get the my money plus the reservation fee? There are many people that go regardless of weather.
We often arrive late to a campsite (especially when people don’t get off work until 6pm) that we’ve been going to once a month in the Summer for 8 years. Where we camp is required that you reserve Friday and Saturday to camp Saturday, so there are often empty sites Friday night. No big deal.
Our campsite offers a refund minus a $10 processing fee and then they put the site back up for walk-ins. This way, the park gets some money, people are okay calling in to cancel, and at least a walk- in gets a site.
Our campsite also reserves 8 “walk- in” only sites of various kinds including electric, walk-to, and non-electric. Those are first come/ first serve but they’re usually gone by noon.
Require a deposit upon reservation then require Payment in full 15 days in advance. If it’s not paid in full they forfeit their reservation! I camp at the beach and they take my deposit and require payment in full 30 days in advance! Saves having this problem!
No! It doesn’t! Many public parks require payment in full in advance, but they still have this issue with no-shows!
We have been discussing the same issue since past few weeks , as we have faced the same problem ; hard to get a camp site. Suggestion from us – increase last minute and no show penalty.
A Very simple solution is –
The renter must call the day of the reservation and confirm they are going to occupy. If they fail to and the site is not occupied by 6pm the day of the reservation the renter forfeits the spot and it is rented out to first come first served.
A simple clause in the contract.
I know people who make reservations for multiple locations for the same time frame. They then cancel or not depending weather, smoke… sometimes they forget and eat the cost. This practice of double booking needs to stop.
I like Ricky B’s comment/solution.
You could try implementing a penalty such as loosing camping privilege’s for the season.
It’s frustrating! There needs to be a “No Show” policy. Camp hosts say, ” But they paid for it.” So the money is more important.???? Not when you need a place to stay and someone isn’t considerate enough to be thoughtful. They think, “Well. I’ll just pay for it, so it’s mine! If I don’t make it, it’s my money. Grrr! There is so much more in life than money. Especially, with campsites. Camping is therapy. And, people with money think they have the right to hold up spaces. There should be time limits. If you’re not there, by 10pm , for example, the first night without a notification to the campground, you relinquish it. GONE! Someone else can take it. Yes,, there ARE contingencies: things happen. But. More often, people just change their minds. It is not fair, paid or NOT!
Things do happen but since when is making a 2 minute call to explain an inconvenience? I agree with you wholeheartedly!
Maybe create an app where people can post a reserved spot for trade(not for profit) the original reservation gets money back(or most of it) and the new reservation pays the original fees. Everyone wins.
Easy, have a check in time limit, like a hotel. You need to request late check in if you still plan on coming later, otherwise you forfeit your money.
Here’s my idea. Make all provincial parks first come first serve , no holds. Then charge more to make up for this reservation fee that government relies on.
Easy solution. If the spot you cancel gets filled by another camper you get a refund or at least a partial refund if done in the week prior to your reserved stay.
Online reservations, changes and cancelations done online get priority. Freeing up the small group covering the reservation line.
Offer one day at half price for all online reservations.
Stop giving out refunds unless it is three months out. Get all the money upfront. We full time and there are campgrounds that tell you when you call them to make a reservation that they want all the money upfront and no refunds.
Typical government problem – there is a creative solution where there is a guarantee of no loss.
Change the system such that, if someone wants to cancel, they indicate that on their reservation. If someone else wants to buy that unused reservation, the person with the initial reservation gets their money back (minus some stupid convenience fee, right? $10 seems fair).
That way if nobody buys the unused reservation the park isn’t out any money. If someone does buy the unused reservation the park still gets to keep that reservation plus an additional $10 reservation fee.
This could all be done on line so there is no additional staff fee.
Also, why would selling ANYthing at a park be nothing more than a profit center? Firewood, RV supplies, etc. Selling supplies and upgrades at a profit would mean more money for staff.
Really good idea – people get their money back – if it’s re-reserved, so park isn’t out any money, and everything can be done online. It’s better than private parks because so many don’t give any money back if you cancel.
I’ve seen this suggested a few times and I find that its the only real solution. I don’t get these people who won’t to penalise, there can be very legitimate reasons for not being able to make it. This gives you a chance to get all your money back and would also give someone else a chance to book last minute which is something our family would love to see since our careers sometimes prevent us from being able to book in advance, 6 months in advance! Cmon!. You could subscribe to get notifications if a site frees up. How awesome would that be?
No excuse for not making the call to cancel or explain tardiness.
A) No refunds policy. Period. This should solve a lot of it. Make people commit.
B) Reservation follow-up policy. I know friends who work in fine dining restaurants and this has helped them to have a full room every night. Require people to call/email within 3-5 days of their reservation to confirm that they will be coming. No follow-up? No reservation and you lose your money. The site is then available to others who are looking last minute.
C) It’s okay to play hardball on this one. People have been taking advantage of the soft policies of our parks for a long time. If you raise the bar, people will fuss at first, but then eventually rise to meet it. After a few years no one will care. They’ll just play by the new rules as if the old ones didn’t exist.
Great suggestions!
This is exactly what I came here to say. Bravo!
Great ideas!
I think a refund should be offered if #1 the reservation is cancelled so the spot can be flagged as available AND #2 the spot IS reserved and paid for by another camper. Recouping the lost fee is the issue. If the spot is paid for the original reservation should be reimbursed at 90%.
Perhaps a time limit for checking in should be in place such as “8PM-or call to say you will be late.” That way stand-by campers could have a chance if they wanted to wait. It may be advantageous for campgrounds to keep a no-shows money, but they make double if there is some kind of no-show limit on time to claim your space. I have seen frustration run high when it appears there is a place to camp and someone else’s ghost is making a campsite unavailable.
I remember seeing signs stating must be occupied within 24 hours of reservation date. I feel if no one shows by noon the following day without a call the site should be opened up again. Arriving at a site at midnight was the norm when I was a child and also as my child was growing up. People work, load, and fight traffic so late arrivals are normal. However, I just camped in Texas and could only get one night. Several sites around me were empty and the loop behind only had one person in it. I missed out on really enjoying one of my State Parks. Confirming a day or two ahead of tie by phone or email isn’t always and option as I am out of cell range sometimes, but if I need to cancel I usually find a way.
I, too had a bad experience booking the campsite – didn’t get it and at the end I saw so many empty campsites.
How about issuing a credit for future reservations? That would keep the money with the campground but allow others to have access to the site being cancelled. Might also need to institute something that tracks how many times you cancel. The more you cancel the less you get on credit.
Or something that allows a waiting list for a campground. People might be more willing to cancel their site if they see that others are wanting it.
That is a good idea. The more cancellations accrued equals to eventually no refund at all. That would capture people’s attention for sure!! They would be more inclined to cancel at that point, I’d assume.
Like some of the other comments, I think that if someone is a no show for a reservation it should be made available for booking again. There are some in good faith that will call a campground if they run into car trouble etc and are forced to arrive a day or two late for a reservation. But if there is no call and someone is a no show the site should be made available. As an avid camper I always am looking for last minute openings. Especially when summer booking fills up so fast.
If you are more that 12 hours late your reservation is canceled, unless you call ahead and explain that you have been detained or the reason why you will be arriving late. ( Very simple. It’s called courtesy)
I don’t mind the no refund policy. I would gladly give my reservation money to the state towards maintaining parks and staff. I must admit I have been a no-show on occasion, mainly because the state park DNR website can sometimes be a hassel to use. Realizing that this has become a problem for others will cause me to take action to cancel in the future.
Perhaps a place on the website for reservations that are not going to be used to post that the campsite will be available. Then if the campsite is picked up and paid for by the new campers then refund the previous reservation for a portion. The park makes extra money instead of losing money and campsites would not sit empty. Just a suggestion.
I totally agree with Robin! If the site is NOT occupied by check-in time the following day, other campers should be allowed to move in.
Also, offering 20% of the sites as “first come, first served”, might help too.
We recently camped in the woods in a national forest because half the sites in the campground were reserved but empty and there were NO “fcfs” sites.
Thank you for passing this on.
You could let the person know that if the site is sold you will refund them 75% of their money that way you still get a late fee for them canceling and they get most of their money back if the site is not sold then they will be charged full price
Exactly. That’s how our beach rental cancelation works. If I cancel and they’re able to rebook it I get about a 75% refund. Of course I have to wait until after the dates to get the refund…but it’s worth it.
Take a lesson from las Vegas, like hotels do if check is not within 2 hours from check in time then the park has the right to re-reserve the spot no refund, however it would have to be posted at time if reservation.
I agree with Tina. No-shows should have a limited time then rebook. No refund! From someone who has been told there were no sites available when in fact there were over 20 unused sites due to no-shows.
This is easy. Add a wait-list and provide a full refund if someone from the wait-list picks up the cancelled reservation, regardless of when the reservation is cancelled. Offer some sort of refund for all cancellations. Maybe 10% (or whatever your margin would have been).
I think alot of people really use Facebook reviews for campsites, I think if you cannot cancel your stay and get your money back then the campground should allow you to “sublet” the spot and see if you can find someone willing to replace you and pay you directly.
The only problem with this is that then you end up with “scalpers” that will buy huge numbers of sites and resell them, at a profit, online.
If you cannot make your reservation you should be allowed to transfer the site to someone else who will use it. I’ve seen so many posts about people trying to cancel but can’t because the online system requires x amount of days. Regardless of refunds you should be allowed to cancel thus providing “last minute” spots for others. On another note, those who leave their sites in disarray should be fined or be black listed from booking in the future. Our wilderness needs to be preserved for our future generations and the select few who choose to ruin it for others should be held accountable.
Why not keep a campsite open for the people who reserved it until something like 6pm and then consider it open for anyone to rent. For multiple day reservations when no one checks in at least by phone or email by 9pm the first night they should consider the campsite no longer theirs and available on a first come first served basis. It may sound harsh, but people need to be responsible. You can put it in your policy and be explicit when people make reservations so there are no questions.
I agree with you. Chances are if they’re not there on their first night, they’re not coming. Open the site to other campers!
That is a super idea!
I’m going to disagree a bit on when a paid campsite should be released. I’d suggest 24 hours after original checkin time be the cutoff. It’s not uncommon for me to get to my new site until late evening. 9 pm day of arrival release is way too early.
Yes!!! A wonderful idea!!! Kind of like air bnb checkin window…if not here with no contact or running late message then open site up for anyone….I also agree with the first come, first serve idea too. If someone has went out of their way to arrive and they are there and ready they should be given a spot!
They paid for the spot. Leave it empty. They can “use” it if they want. Camp ground isn’t losing money if it remains empty yet paid for. Also sure a No Refund Policy. But doubt that would help in this situation.
Go to a “full” campground with a lot of empty spaces looking for a campsite, and give up, and then tell me if you still think this.
Yes, places have to stay in business.
But, people also want to camp.
It’s no fun getting turned away from a full campground.
It’s ten times worse getting turned away from a campground that will never fill up.
Maybe the park could do a system like StubHub where a reservation could be posted and if it is picked up the original party gets part of their money back.
I think all of these are excellent ideas! I’ve also found that if you speak with the campground they sometimes are willing to give a refund. We had to leave early from Arizona because of a weather system that was rolling in and the campground gave us a refund, much to our surprise! I try to always alert the campground if we are unable to make the reservation.
I think a transfer without a fee would help plus a site that allows last minute travelers to grab these reservations that aren’t being used. It’s so hard to get a spot. So hard that some of us reserve 6 months in advance. The system definitely needs some upgrades so we can all go camping!
Offer a full refund if the site is rebooked! Not only will people cancel but they will share and invite others. Win win for everyone.
This exactly.
There needs to be a policy that states, if you don’t show up for your reserved campsite on the first night of your reservation & don’t call/email the campground that you will be arriving later than the first night, you forfeit your right to that campsite w/no refund, so that another camper can enjoy that campsite.
I am a Manager at an RV park also. Some of What we have been experiencing is just people not showing up. We try to call and can not get in touch with them. Since they paid for the site we can’t book it to someone else. The next thing is people book so far in advance they forget so when we call its oh we aren’t able to come. Then we have had people book multiple places since they know how hard it has been to get sites then decide at the last minute where they are going. We have a very similar cancelation policy. We will charge at least the 1st night fee. That’s our side of things.
Why arent the sites released to other campers after so many hours empty? Most campgrounds include a clause for reservations cancellations or, non-cancellations rather, that informs the reservee that failure to occupy the site within so many hours of the reserved time will result in loss of the site. Of course extrenuating circumstances like late travel can be called in but a blatantly vacant site should be given to a camper who wants to use it. If providing short notice refunds hurts the parks financially then opening a vacant site to others seams to be a win-win for the present camper and the park.
Mostly the policy is in place to release, but a lack of plan for verifying who has checked in means staff can’t keep up with verifying occupancy in the park. I wrote about the checking system that worked well in Ontario. They also seemed to have far more staff on hand tho, so….
I feel that we need to go back to a first come first served policy for the majority of sights and have a selection of reservations available. We have noticed also that many of our state and county campgrounds have empty (ghost) sites. We recently spent time at a state park in WI and wanted to reserve a site for a week, reservations were not available for most of the sites for the entire week we wanted. Upon arrival a good majority of the sites not only were empty but stayed empty all week. Our county parks just went to a reservation necessary policy, which you can drive in and reserve immediately, but cancellations not reported by reservee do not take effect until 24 hours from scheduled check-in date, and refunds are fortified at that time. Their hope is that people will keep their reservation. Not seeing any evidence of that yet.
Government should get out of the hotel business and get back to maintaining our parks and providing security. A private company can create and manage check-in policies that will keep the camping sites available and full.
Forget privatization. Keep hiring the dedicated workforce who have been running Parks forever. Forget the group that’s just there for the bucks.
I agree. Privatization isn’t always the answer. This isn’t a big government problem, it’s a people abusing the system problem. A private company won’t fix that, they’ll just swoop in, raise prices and look to make a profit from site fees and anything else they want to bring in. (Product/food sales) I like the idea of either losing your whole reservation fee for no shows or partial refund only if someone ends up occupying the site. Keep the parks accessible and as free from private profiteering as possible! We go there to get AWAY from the saturated private environment.
We recently spent a month in Ontario, where provincial parks are serious about no-shows. Everybody is required to check in at the main gate. If you show up after the gatehouse closes, they print a list of late arrivals, you initial when you do arrive, and still must check in person the next day. No shows forfeit entire booking. It cuts down considerably on folks who book at the earliest window (like a wed-sun) but only intend to use the wkend. They also charge rebooking if they booked earlier days but are canceling partials (again to counter the wed-sun when they only plan to use the wkend.) If you truly run into trouble, you can cancel via phone and not forfeit. For example, Trans Canada hwy 17 was closed for hours due to a multi car accident, with no other route open. They allowed us to cancel first night (no refund) without the forfeit. I noticed when I got to the park that they take those last minute cancellations and offer fcfs for folks just needing one night. Win win.
No show should follow with a reservation ban for next season, unless they canceled their reservation prior.
Something not addressed here is many people reserve more time than they ever intend to occupy. If you want the weekend you go on the Tuesday before and reserve 6 days. Then actually show up just Friday night and leave Sunday. The recreation.gov opens most things 6 months early but you can reserve whatever is the maximum stay at that point. If you wait until Friday exactly 6 months before someone will have already executed the Thursday trick, and so it becomes a Wednesday trick and finally a Tuesday trick. When some these cabins or sites are $15/night, maybe even discounted more for certain people, an extra $45-75 for 3 nights you won’t be there is nothing compared to the other costs you will have.
Just like before at first come first served sites, you have to have a policy the site must be occupied on the first night. That is used to keep someone from driving up Wednesday and paying for a 5 day block then coming back on Friday to actually occupy.
Best, of course, is cancel by 5:00 pm for a full refund.
If they can’t afford that, how about cancel and lose part but get part back?
If they can’t afford that, how about a system where you call and cancel and if someone takes your space, you get refunded?
That’s win-win. People may get a refund (or partial refund), and the people who want a campsite actually get it (this could be both folks on-site driving in circles for a space and others trying to get a last minute res.)
Yes, this is more work, and no more money. But, if you want happy campers, it would work.
(And their might be some increase in revenue from others sources with more folks there).
When booking a campsite they need to make it non-refundable less people will cancel when it’s non-refundable
Couldn’t they send a refund if the site gets reserved after cancellation? At least it would encourage people to actually cancel reservations and it reopens it for others – win-win
If you don’t arrive the first night of your registration, or contact letting the park know you are arriving late, the remainder of your reserved site re-opens to the public and you lose your $$$. Easy.
Exactly! Hotels do the same thing.
When making initial reservations, put in a notice that a 48 to 72 hour message or text will be sent confirming their plans, and if no response is received within 24 hours, reservations and refunds, if eligible, for it will be under predetermined cancelation rates.
This is super frustrating and parks are made for people to enjoy yet they are empty. I often find I’m able to camp last minute and can’t find a site….in a totally empty park. This is a broken ridiculous system that generates profits for the park management company and the public who pays taxes for parks are
Left shafted.
What about an online check-in (not a full check in, just a “hey, we’re coming”) system? You get an automated text/email to remind you then you can check in up to 48 hours in advance and then there’s no excuse for you not to show up, and no refund. If you still haven’t checked in 24 hours after your check in, the site is released for other campers. I’m new to the RVing world and it’s been tough. We’re building but the county is WAY behind on approving permits. It is very frustrating to finally find a sight and then you get there and there are multiple empty spots. I have had several occasions where i have to check the availability over and over and pray very hard that something comes available. I do think that if you haven’t checked in on your arrival day, the following day the site should be released. In many cases here in Georgia, the campground phones don’t work. So you can’t call if you’re running late. .
I worked at a place for 10 years that opened spots up for no show campers at 11am the day after their arrival. First come first serve. Not perfect. But in the right direction.
Recreation.gov can make a wait list page. Original bookers could post their booking for someone else to buy (no markups allowed). You only get your money back if someone picks up the booking.
That is the most perfect idea ever!!! Front desk staff are so busy already with check ins and guests. If a system was created to electronically manage this, that would be so incredible. It could just send an email to front desk for the change in booking information and go through a trusted payee like PayPal. CANT STRESS ENOUGH… GREAT IDEA. Also ideal for the park because empty sites usually mean less purchases for wood and ice and supplies too which help the park run! So keeping sites full would support the park!
My family had planned a trip last year but someone we were going with caught covid 5 days before we were supposed to go. Policy was no refund after 7 days. I called to explain and see if I could get partial and got a flat no. We waited to see if things would get better before going but last minute decided it wasn’t worth the risk or the trip. I admit I didn’t even think about calling back to cancel.
I agree a 24 hour confirmation before hand would help and I would’ve told them no and they could’ve rebooked.
I mean most appointments do the same. Or even a check in like hotels
This is not feasible for the campground. The costs associated with a campground running, don’t even touch the insurance costs. Lots of liability issues. I worked in the industry for 10 years and a system like that and the losses associated would be a cause for a campground to close. I believe that a good strategy for that would be to post on a buy and sell site and see if anyone is interested in taking your spot so you could get some of your money back for even a few of the days.
how about an extra large cancelation fee like twice the amount of original fee
I worked at a place for 10 years that had a cancellation policy on our end. If you didn’t show by 11am on the day after your arrival date, the park could rent it out. No refund granted for people who didn’t call to cancel but it allowed other campers to enjoy the park. Some campers did book for an entire summer and come and go as they please. That should be completely fine and does not need changing. If they paid and want to come and go as they please, that’s their right. There aren’t enough campsites for the weekends in many of these places for everyone to come. Book early. If you don’t cancel, you take responsibility for your actions by loosing your money. The park should be able to rent out sites that don’t show. A good tip is to go early for non reservable campsites and check for crown land close by if it doesn’t work out. Set uo shop on crown land and pay dayuse for the parks immenities. Happy camping.
It’s simple. Show up by checkin the second day or lose the site and your money.
The park should be able to offer refunds on cancellations if the spot gets picked up by someone else.
If you cancel after refund period, but someone else rents the spot you should be able to recoup some if not all of your reservation. Maybe a small fee for the transfer.
If raining and park attendance low, spot still gets full fee from original reservation. If good spot and someone wants to switch spots or reserve late because park was full, still get someone paying for the space.
On the park side there is no advantage to resolving this problem. Less people, less work for overworked staff. Still getting spots paid for presumably.
Many restaurants who offer reservations will tell you that they will only hold your table for 15 minutes before giving your table away to the next. I used to camp when there was no ability to make reservations and just to take your chances. My suggestion would be to give your guest a reasonable arrival or check in time and give NO refunds if they do not cancel 5 days prior. You may get fewer reservations but you will have the right to rent it to someone else too.
Hello
I have myself seen numerous empty campsites this year. In Big Sur, Yosemite and places in Utah. It seems incredibly wasteful and unfair to those that want to camp but can’t because all reservations are taken, to learn that a HUGE number of sites are open.
I feel it would be fair that if a campsite is reserved and remains unoccupied by the reservation by 7pm, then the site should go to a first come first served basis.
Allowing for someone perhaps already staying but could only reserve for 1 night, they would be able to claim the site and stay longer. And/or allow for someone without a reservation to show up and possible score an previously reserved, but unclaimed site.
That way the park system could charge more. Keeping the reservation payment and taking money to “flip” the unclaimed reservation to someone new.
No wasted spaces, more money for the parks and happier campers.
I use recreation.gov. Some of these places have no front check-in etc. No one comes around all these places to put up tags for reservations. I call to reserve. I met people who straight told me they didn’t pay and just stay there. I’m at a place now that seems OK, someone monitoring all sites etc…but past one’s not exactly. Criminals etc…the prices are cheap though. If you can’t find a spot somewhere with rec.gov learn how to haul your own water, get a generator, ice, etc… and just go to the variety for free campsite locators online.
You like nature? Support it. Some of these places are so nice. You are contributing to upkeep and preservation…plan accordingly to avoid problems. I have lost out on a lot of reservations, but then I think it’s for a good cause…and I’m not at all rich. I live on the road.
No reservations. Sites are filled on a first-come first-served basis.
There is no way I would pack all the food and stuff in hopes of finding a site. I only go with a reservation anywhere.
Right!
If they don’t show up on the first day/night that’s it, they forfeit the reservation, simple, now you can reserve it out again. It’s not rocket science people !
Maybe they can build a wait list system in? Or like Ticketmaster, a “sell your site” type of system?
A stricter refund policy is needed. How about no refunds after 48 hours of making the reservation? Maybe travel insurance purchased independently by guests can help.
Awful harsh. I often book months ahead. Can have health emergency, death in family, etc.
Depending on each state, if it’s not a federal law, they may not legally be able to accept rent for the same space more than one time. Which means say family A reserves a spot for the busy Holiday weekend. An emergency pops up amd they can’t make it, they lose the money they put down anyways and any additional money they agreed upon. The resort takes that “rent” money. Some states for sure, like CA, cannot accept rent from more than one person for the same space. If that’s the case, then just plan to fully refund (and ammendment your refund policies) any spots you can get rented and refund the original person. I know, they still should have called, but that is sadly how Americans can be. Sometimes we only think of ourselves and not always others.
Don’t refund original party that didn’t show up, the party that did gets to stay for free. One rent one spot. People that don’t care for others, automatically get to pay it forward.
I believe that no shows should be charged full amount for full days they were going to stay but the following day, someone new should be able to take and pay for spot. People get refund only if no show was due to medical emergency or crime.
People who MUST cancel at the last minute are charged more than if they don’t show up at our state parks here. My suggestion: charge a cancellation fee, BUT if someone else books that site for the same days, refund the rest of their money! If it sits empty, they must pay for it. Would help a lot!
Charge double at reservation, give half back when they check in
I would support that!
That’s not a bad idea. I wouldn’t mind that. Yes, I’d hate tying up credit card funds like that, but this makes it “hurt more” to the double reservers who don’t care if they pay for two spots and only use one.
I have reserved spots where the deposit is equal to 1 night’s space rent and is non-refundable. If the check in time is 1pm, you have from 1pm -4pm to check in otherwise you forfeit your deposit and the site can be given to someone else, unless other arrangements have been made on advance for a late check in, which can be from an additional 2-3 hours to the next morning by 7am or so.
Maybe if people want to cancel at the last minute the could be offered a credit of 50% of the fee to be used in the next 12 months.
If they are a no show after 48 hours the remainder of their resvation is forfeited and put back in the system as available. There is a popular beach site and that is their policy. It is always full. One other campsite I stay at has numerous RV sites that are empty for a week with no-shows. It is a shame because others could use them. Use it or lose it. No refund for no-shows. Maybe then they will get the point. Also prohibit the no-shows from reserving for a period of time. No-shows who don’t make a simple call are lazy and selfish. Just my 2 cents.
But in most areas the problem is only on the weekends. By the time 24 or 48 hours are past, it’s irrelevant. Close the barn door on Sunday, who cares, the weekend is lost to other campers.
Have the campground post on fb their new cancelations. There are already groups on fb where campers post their sudden cancelations in hopes that someone can snag it up. It’s obviously not always convenient for a last minute trip, but other times it works out great.
Waiting list to rent the spot. Let’s say you want spot 4 and someone reserved it and decides they need to cancel, your on the list to take over the spot, the original renters gets a full refund and the new renter pays for the days they will be there.
If spot 3 is rented for 5 days and new renter only wants it for 3 then renter pays for the 3 and the original renter still has to pays for 2 days…..
Something along those lines, sure someone can make it work
Offer a partial refund if they call to cancel and the site is rented. This would encourage them to at least allow it to be offered. The campground could have a wait list. The part of the fee not refunded would be to cover the cost to maintain wait list
If something happens last minute, and there’s no refund, I just hang onto it. Why just give it up, they re-rent the space which was already paid for and get double the price. I paid for it. This year we got covid the day before, so no refund if canceling.
How selfish and entitled of you.
There needs to be a site where you can resell your reservation there same way you can resell concert tickets. Parks can agree to accept proof of transfer shown on whatever app or website that could handle this resell, like Ticketmaster or AXS and all the camping reservation websites can add a visible section to their website linking to the resell site.
I thought about this also. Great idea.
Don’t like this idea as someone or company will start reserving all the spots in a popular destination then resell at higher price to someone else. Just like ticket brokers.
That was my first thought, as well. Sad, we always have a few that ruin it for the many!
Can you say “scalping for higher prices?”
There is a Facebook page in our region for transferring reservations. Not allowed to charge more than what you paid- you have to show your original reservation.
Increase the price per night and offer a refund if canceled even the day of before check in time. If your park has a high demand, you will make it up in further reservations. What amazes me is that hotels and motels have a very clear policy of a deposit and a cut off time if the person doesn’t arrive that they forfeit their deposit. If someone doesn’t stay the first night of a full week trip without notifying then they forfeit their stay and the room is rented to someone else. Why don’t we follow the policies of hotel and motel reservations? Make a deposit, show up or notify someone if you aren’t going to, and if the site is open the next day, rent it to someone else. This is courtesy were talking about. You’re occupying something financially but not occupying it physically. It’s extremely selfish and disrespectful of your fellow campers to think you can just take some thing and then not use it. That campsite isn’t yours, we share it as a community of campers
100%. I couldn’t agree more. Perfect solution here.
The campsite IS yours if you pay for it.
How selfish! If you no show space should be released for others to enjoy vs sitting empty. Sad so many Americans are selfish and entitled.
Put a policy in place and have to agree to cancel if not coming. If cancel, and can rent space, give a partial refund.
If don’t cancel and no show or contact by a designated time, no refund whether rent the space or not.
Seems pretty simple.
Diamond Lake SP in Oregon has a policy that no shows were released to anyone if not occupied by noon the day after the reservation started. That seems to be a good workaround for campers that are too inconsiderate to cancel their reservation just because they won’t receive a refund.
Love this!!
Is this Oregon SP rules in general? We were just at the Oregon coast and yes, one of the best sites in the park stood empty the entire time we were there. I just couldn’t understand how they got away with that.
Maybe if someone reserves a site for multiple days but doesn’t show up on the first day their reservation should be cancelled without a refund. This would allow people to get those sites on a first come first served basis.
This is what Washington’s policy is. I figured everyone was this way.
Have a wait-list and only cancel with rescheduling nonrefund once new reservation is paid and confirmed by new camper
Go back to the old system. Instead of reserving certain sites you reserve camping time and get a choice of what sites are available. There are many times I can’t camp unless I change sites every other day which leads to open non used sites.
The state park I started out my camping days in IL and the one in AL I spent many days and didn’t use reservations. If you wanted a certain spot you took your camper out to the park earlier to rent your preferred spot and it sat there until you moved it. Many times I took our camper out on Wednesday paid my fees for Wednesday-Sunday and arrived Friday evening. When the kids were out of school DW and the kids got an extended weekend while I finished my work week. It was simple and worked.
It worked for YOU. While it is marginally better than the lock-up–the-weekends-with-reservations system, it does leave a park full of ‘phantom’ campers, where an empty tent occupies the best lakeside site. Actually several of them. While the actual campers who are there all week trying to enjoy the park are welcome to the unlevel sites near the dumpster. One campground that used this system had to resort to expensive citations for those caught doing this. It seemed extreme, but now I see why they did it.
All the different reservation systems that the different national, state, county, and Private campgrounds own and operate must develop a better system that allows a potential camper to join a WAIT LIST when the campsites are fully reserved This will become activated when a campsite is cancelled and should automatically reach out to the WAIT LIST
Now all we have to do is make sure that the campers that are not intending to use their campsite actually do cancel. We can assure that by informing all persons making reservations that if their sites go UNUSED during their reservation without a cancel notice, the credit card number that was used to make that reservation will be charged a PENALTY FEE…say double the original reservation fee.
Simple to me. 1) Make a reservation- pay in full. Cancel outside of 30 days of arrival full refund. After that no refund-period. 2) if no show(or call) on first day then site is open to others. That should work for campground as they would end up with more money if someone doesn’t show up or cancel.
I agree 100%. Failure to show within 24 hours of reservation, space is released, no refund.
Very simple, Russell. Several parks we have booked over the years require a full payment rather than a deposit. Those of us not trying to game the system and who give a d..n about our fellow campers and campsite owners could work quite easily with just what you have proposed.
As long as the person is permitted to call and advise of a delay, their site should be held. I’ve dealt with breakdowns that didn’t only last a day before. I also think being able to get a partial refund if the site is booked for same dates after canceled.
I think the reservation window is too long. Reduce it to 30 days out and campers might plan better.
“It is an urban park with local campers and the park keeps its rates low.” The market works if you let it… set the prices at market rate and people wil value the reservation because it will be valuable…All the issues listed stem from an artificially low price (understaffed, underfunded, not valued)
Good suggestion.
Great point! I would be much more motivated to cancel if paying market rate and I would add a deposit based upon days booked that is only refunded or deducted from cost at the end of the reservation dates. People just seem so inconsiderate these days. With all the technology available, is it really that difficult to set a reminder?
I also think the original reservation should be refunded in part or whole minus a fee if the camp site is able to be booked after the cancelation.
Asking one-night deposit refundable only 30 days or more before arrival. Offenders will think twice…
I forgot: send an email reminder for that site the same time that 30-day is reached, so the one who reserved may have a chance to cancel his reservation and have most of his deposit reimbursed.
Maybe if the campground required a deposit along with the reservation fee, that would be returned to you upon checkout or if you canceled the reservation? That would motivate prompt checkouts and a clean campsite AND cancellations to open the campsite for others on the waitlist!!
the refund system is the problem. We charge full price if the site is cancelled with in 1 day before the date they are suppose to come in. However, when they can just call their credit card company and contest the charges and have them reversed it’s still a no win situation.
Two no shows? You’re banned from camping at facility and any other one that reservation manages. If that’s rec.gov – you’re locked out nationwide.
I suppose people will get around this by booking sites in other family members names. Maybe you could tie the registration to the license plate if they have a RV.
It’s obvious the CGs are not all about refunds in any form. So, let them double dip. I honestly care more about securing a site than how much profit they make. Setup a way for hosts to resell the no showed spots. If there isn’t equipment from the original reservation in the spot within 24 hours it’s open to be rented.
I will say this to my obviously frustrated first come first serve camping brethren….Never believe the campground full sign. Always go speak with a host.
If a reserved site has not been taken by say 4 PM, it should be made available to first come first serve.
NO!
How about mandatory licence plate numbers on your reservation. Computer would recognize duplicate number. then Verify number on arrival.
Not there after 24hrs? Open the site up for someone else to book. Still no refund to the initial party, so no loss to the park.
Give them a day with no contact then the site is open to rent
Wow, so much hate. I guess if I have a reservation and brake down making me late by a day or so i am out of luck. So many comments saying to lock people out of other reservations and give away their site right away. So, so wrong. It’s my money and it the check has been cashed … so to speak, and to sell my spot would or should be a crime.
An abuse policy is one thing but a prepaid no show is another.
I think the point here was “no contact”. If you have problems and call the facility – no harm no foul, but not everyone would be that thoughtful.
Easy, if you are past the refund deadline you can still cancel and if someone rebooks the site then you get refunded. If you know you might get refunded it would motivate you to cancel. Campsite would not lose money.
This is the way I too think it should work. You pay for the full reserved time, if you cancel and someone else can take the slot – Win-Win, you get some money back and someone else gets in. Unfortunately this doesn’t cover the issue of people that WANT to book a couple months in advance and someone has cheated the system by over booking. I think one should only be allowed to book one site per time period – but then what about the people that book multiple sites using different email addresses and credit cards – Ee Gads!!
Many parks I workamped at only charged for one day if it was made for multiple days. They paid for rest of days when arriving. If they did not show they lost that one day and site was opened to rent. Another park had a deadline to check in. If no show or call, it was opened back up.
Provide an option to issue a refund only upon acceptance of another reservation in its place. Now, if the campground is not full then the second reservation will be more expensive to cover possible lost revenue. I also agree with the 24 hour no show policy if no communication has been afforded then the site is available for rent. Too many campers want a site so do not leave it empty. I know my wife and I always call and communicate our schedule when we are delayed. It’s the respectful thing to do.
Campgrounds should open up the site if they are not there by a certain time on the 2nd day of the reservation….I believe that is what the Washington State Parks do
The policy at our local campgrounds are that you have to check IN by the next days check OUT time. You could add an “unless other arrangements are made” clause for campers that may have had something unfortunate happen but are calling to check in… or hey, check in by phone, etc. like at an airport so the camper has to do something to actively show they are still coming.
My brother had engine problems and got stuck just inside the campground he was leaving. They were fortunate to get the needed part and continue on the next day. but were late by a day to their next campground. While this is a true story, I can see lots of folks calling and using this as an excuse to show up a few days late
The campgrounds should allow the reservation holder to resell the site at 90% to another party, with a small portion going to the campground for processing. That way the campground gets their money plus some, people can recoup reservation costs, and others can grab it at a discount.
NO REFUND. Camp host keeps the money. You can’t cancel a air line ticket and get you’re money back.
I would give one exception RAIN.
Go to a 30 day window for, and only a full refund. No partial refunds. Cheaters have screwed up the system for us all. And 3 year reservation band for no-shows.
If the site is empty and shows no activity for 24 or 48 hours, the reservation should be made null and void anyway. Let someone else enjoy it
I give a full refund minus 10% for fees. And I do that up until the day of reservation. If you don’t show up at all, I don’t refund your money. I have the simplest refund policy and it works. When you reserve a space at my RV park, you have to put 50% down. That is enough to cause most people to call and cancel if they are not coming and free the space up for someone else.
I have a favorite state park (Idaho) that I go to. The host gets a list of cancelled reservations the day after they are cancelled. Many of the cancelled sites are taken by campers who ask the hosts if any sites are available.
When I last stayed in Yellowstone (fall 2015) the reservation was if you did not show up on the FIRST DAY your spot was cancelled. I don’t remember about the pre-arrival cancellation policy. We were on time! Seems fair that empty spots were given out after the first missed day.
Seems very fair, and good idea. Common courtesy to cancel if you don’t make it, and if you can’t give that, others would be happy to use the spot
I say the best option is for us who camp, we ask if there were any no shows and we can have a better site at arrival. We went camping a few weeks ago in-between Tupper Lake and Saranac Lake. We could see all these beautiful sites near the water and were empty. My husband looked online to reserve and they were all full. I feel that if given the opportunity I would have moved and even pay more for the water site location. They would make more money!
I think if they are unable to show, or cancel ahead of time, if they call and let the park know they can’t make it and there spot gets filled by someone else then they can be refunded at least half of not more. That way they make a little money but they aren’t putting anyone out either.
Reserved vacant campsites? No more reservations for all sites. First come first served
What about travelers who don’t want to have to sty at camp Walmart? I haven’t bothered to check GA state parks for the last 4 years. 8 years ago I got a winter campsite as a tent camper. All other times I checked for, none available
Ban people for 1 year that do not cancel.
From a retired park ranger and fulltime RVer: I don’t buy the they can’t afford it reason. They charge a refund fee and the sites will get occupied with walk ins. Some agencies do have tight budgets but campgrounds don’t always make big bucks. They are an important public service. Agencies are doing what’s easy and not giving visitor services, which is their job. What RLF said about Yellowstone policy is how it should be, more agencies are doing this but we need to write letters asking agencies to implement a no show policy and provide more first come first serve. Making everything reservation is a thing from covid that needs to switch back to more half 1st come 1st serve at least.
My suggestion: If a reserved campsite isn’t occupied on the day of the reservation by the end of that day (12am) – it becomes an open and unreserved site for someone else to use ( ie first come first served).
First night is a must stay, over the period of the reservation you can be gone one night not counting day one. If you leave early the site is then open for anyone.
Charge a credit card for the whole amount. Refund it all except one night if you cancel the previous day.
What if you are a No-call to cancel within 48 hours, you forfeit your site and refund.
Then the campground can rent the site again.
There are so many RV’ers now, can’t believe they wouldn’t be able to recoup $$$ with 48 hour cancellation terms.
I think reservations should be stopped. It should all be first come, first served. Daily. That keeps all the sites open as long as possible and everyone has the same chance to get a site. People would be welcome to call and find out if, at this time, there any sites left? Easy answer for the camp host. Only so many can pay for the day. Yes or no.
What about travelers who don’t want to park in Camp Walmart? Georgia has this policy and I have never checked for a site in the last 4 years. 8 years ago in winter I did get a campsite- one of my last nights in a tent.
All sales final, no refunds. Simple.You reserve it, you pay for it. In Full.
I disagree with this as plans change and life changes. A respectable amount of time given in advance for cancelling just makes sense.
Instill a show by time or the site can be given to another camper, if rented to another camper a refund can be given if requested. No shows / no contact still get charged the whole fee. That way more sites are available to active campers. And no shows get penalized. Over time the no show rate wohld drop…
If they don’t cancel or call they will be late, after 24 hours their site should be forfeited.
Totally agree with this. Makes the most sense and simple!
good simple response.
Zero refunds unless the park is able to resell the site. This would encourage people to always call and call ASAP to try to get a refund. On the state and nation reservation site, tag the repeat offenders to discourage bad behavior. Create waiting lists for at least weekend night so that people can make plans when there are openings instead constantly checking the website and clogging things up.
I fully agree with your position.
I love the idea of tagging the repeat offenders!
This is another great suggestion and VERY fair for everyone. Motivating the one who made the reservation to “do the right thing” is a tremendous way to help the entire system. It’s incredible how responsible people can become to get THEIR money back, even if a small amount in their overall budget!
There should be a system where people can submit that they would like to cancel that offers a full refund and that RV site is then placed on a special page to allow people to reserve it. If it gets a new reservation, the people get a full refund. If not the original refund policy applies.
I don’t think they should get any refund if the site isn’t rented because that means they didn’t give enough advanced notice for those of us desperate for a site almost anywhere in some states such as Florida in the winter. My circumstances normally do not allow me to plan 11 months in advance. And the once or twice that I could plan that far ahead, there was so much demand that I couldn’t get through on my computer until all available sites were taken.
If they allowed a refund only if the site was rented then everyone would get what they want, a full campground and a refund for people who can’t attend.
Make the site available but hold the refund until a new camper takes the spot to ensure the campsite is paid for.
Like this idea David.
I am currently road tripping in Oregon. When a consumer purchases portable beverages here (beer, sodas, etc) a 10 cent deposit is paid up front on each can. Guess what? There are no cans anywhere; the redemption centers are very popular.
I propose a similar additional “deposit” be paid when making camping reservations. If the reserver doesn’t show by a certain time frame (no phone call excuses, even though they happen), then the site gets relisted online made available locally. No refunds. The reservation issuing entity can then use the “cancellation deposit” plus the reservation funds to fund the additional service personel or database required to reschedule the now available slot. If no “no show” occurs, then that “no show fee” deposit gets automatically refunded or just not auto- charged on the card. My point is that for reservation interruptions/ corrections/no shows to be processed quickly enough to benefit an arriving camper the processing time has to be compensated/profitable.
Do like the dr dentist offices do call a couple of days ahead n get a for sure answer of yes n if a no call your people on the waiting list if they dont show after a yes charge them more for a no show
This seems like a very good suggestion. Dentists and Doctors have used this for many years and some people are perfectly delighted to take a “canceled” slot in the schedule. There are some of us who have to plan ahead to get our RV out of inside storage and we could not do some of this until we got “on the road” – but if this were a common practice we would count on this being a “way to go.”
Ours sends a text, they don’t even call.
This would mean more manpower. But also could draw more revenue if done prior to the reservation dates.
If I couldn’t make my scheduled camping date. I’d just call the campground and tell them I’m canceling and they could rebook the site. Wouldn’t be concerned about the refund, but rather someone else to use the site. I camp in mostly state parks or government owned campgrounds. So the money loss wouldn’t be worth it. Not that I’m rich, but rather be considerate.
For single night reservations a cutoff time of 5:pm would allow prospective campers the opportunity to use a site. A waiting list on a work up plan would let those without reservations to gain access.
For longer stays the person making the reservation would be notified that they must show up at the specified time or contact the park to let the park know they are on the way and give an approximate time of arrival. message could be generated and sent to the reservation holder when they don’t show up by check in time that they no longer have that site available and a refund has been generated less a no show penalty.
I would think that with a cutoff time for longer stays the park could then open that site to the next person in line.
If the person who made the initial reservation shows up late without notifying the campground it’s to bad so sad. They get a full refund less a “no show” penalty all of which is clearly spelled out when they first
made the reservation.
Automate it!
Very difficult situation! Bill at booking the entire site fee. If the camper has the courtesy to cancel by noon on the check in date, refund 90% and rebook the site. No call by noon, no refund. same for a late arrival. Call to inform of late arrival. From my experience campgrounds have increased their charges to the point that is it financially painful if you have to pay for a sight that you don’t fill. In my experience if you work with the campgrounds they are willing at be flexible. Otherwise it is the camper looking for a site that is hurt not the campground!
Maybe a deal where they don’t get a refund but can CHANGE the reservation to a different date that is available could be an option for those that are past the 4day cancelation window. It might be an acceptable compromise. Many other places do that for a small administration fee.
We are staying this fall at a new RV Park in Milton, Florida off I-10 called Splash RV. Our FMCA Chapter (Coaches for Christ) is having a group of 25 or so RVs do a Rally there in the first week of November. Their policy is CLEAR: you make a reservation and there are NO refunds. Instead, you have up to one year to use that amount to stay in that Park. WOW – some of our best members didn’t like that AT ALL. But most of us understood the Campground’s position and decided we were SERIOUS about showing up! It does prevent “speculation reservations.”
I see this as more of a systems issue. Reservations should be reviewed each morning. Manually delete the reservations that did not arrive and check in. If the camp site is not filled on the first night, the reservation is canceled with no refund. Then open the site for reservations.
How is this basic process so much more difficult then renting a car, hotel room, etc. I have had to call companies that we had a reservation and change it or some reason. 95% of the time it is understood. And the person or company will accommodate. I have lost two times the amount paid for the first night.
I’m not sure what a perfect answer would be
someone will always find a way to manipulate the system. I do think that maybe issuing a rain check, or escrow sort of system would be helpful. If you have to cancel your stay the funds could be put into an escrow account, that ties into your reservation account. The campground gets to keep the funds until your able to use them again. I know of a few private owned camp grounds that do this.
Ya know, every comment implies one thing. RV’ers need to communicate! A couple of the parks we stayed at this year, called us shortly after noon the day we were to arrive to ask if we were still coming. If we had said no, obviously that would free up the site for someone else. Easy-Peasy!
But now I am going to throw a couple barbs. We have created this monster ourselves! How many RV’ers complain about over-crowding? So this drives people to make reservation as early as possible, even if they are not sure they can make them. This drives cancellation issues and campgrounds less than desired refund policies. Add to that the new ‘dynamic’ pricing we are hearing about and just like that – WE (RV’ers), CG’s and the RV industry have created a monster. Given the economy, it will be interesting where this all goes.
If you don’t show in 24 hrs rent the spot out to someone else
I think we need to keep in mind to not shift more administrative work to the park level, they are understaffed as is. How about the online reservation services pick up the load?
1.Cancelations and refunds could be part of the reservation system at whatever parameters you choose.
2. Tracking bad apples would be a simple task of hitting a “noshow” key at the park level and after 2 noshows without cancelation, ban them from the system.
How about If no show and no contact from customer 24 hrs after checkin time, automatically release the site for other campers.
Of course with BIG WARNING and SPECIFIC AGREEMENT of this rule and clearly mentioning NO REFUND when people are reserving and paying for a site would be needed.
The park keeps the original reservation money and gets extra money for the next reservation made. Eliminates campers that might reserve from week days to over the weekend to come only on the weekend, provides better inventory to last minute travellers, etc.
Now this could work ‘well’ if the park has a good automated system that they programme to do the automatic release, unless the automatic release was blocked during this 24 hrs window, either online by the customer himself providing reason and new expected show up date or by contacting the staff that do the blocking for them after providing to info – STILL WITH NO REFUND either way.
I never administered a campground, wishful thinking?
I think like the state park policy we are hosting at that 3 strikes you are out (black listed). You can get a full refund up to 24 hours before check in. They wait till 20 hours after check in to mark you a no call no show. If you call AFTER check in to cancel get partial refund. A no show no call gets no refund. You are put on a list. If you do this 3 times you cannot reserve a site. You still have the ability to get a first come first serve site (no electric, no water). We noticed out of the 10 campgrounds (out of 19 total) within the park, that even with this policy MANY don’t call to cancel. It is sad because this is a busy place. Others waiting to visit and stay would benefit if the camper would just cancel.
Just like at the airlines, if the guest does not show up within x number of hours from check-in, then the site should be forfeited and either put back in the reservation bank or given to those on a waitlist. It’s not a perfect solution, but at least it’s moving in the direction of more fair.
So I understand the need to keep those funds. If there was a policy to allow cancelations and “if site is filled” reservation will be refunded, perhaps that would work? Maybe add that cancellation policy – “if you need to cancel, and we can fill your particular site with a request and deposit, your full reservation minus admin fee will be returned”. This is subject to actual results. Or something like that?
Maybe campgrounds should implement a cancellation policy that allows campsites to become available for walk-up or same day reservation if the person who made the reservation doesn’t show up or call within 24 hours of check-in time. If they cancel, give them a refund if it’s rented to someone else. If they don’t cancel, oh well.
Give full refund if site ends up being filled, but only if you cancel
Have a policy that if you are a no show and have not called by 6PM, the spot will be forfeited and rerented to someone waiting that day.
I like staying at Corps of Engineers campgrounds. They have a policy at the ones I stay at that if you don’t show up within 24 hours of your reservation AND you don’t let them know you will be late, they let other campers reserve it.
If the camper does not show on the FIRST night of the reservation then the camper loses the remaining reserved days (no refund) and the campground offers it as fcfs The campground isn’t out any money infact they just made a better profit and a camper is made very happy not to have to search any further It’s a win win
I think campgrounds should take some experience from the hotel industry. If a camper doesn’t check in by a certain time, the campsite is given away on a first come first serve basis. As for refunds the amount of refund should depend on whether the campsite can be filled by another camper or not. For example: if you cancel a certain number of days before your first reserved date and the campground is able to put another camper in your spot, you are given a full refund minus reservation fee.
Thought I read your article thoroughly, but the only thing I picked up about the campsite side of reasoning for empty sites was itself empty. No reasoning on their behalf that I could see, except being to busy. If thats true simply change their procedures. What did I miss?
I’m in agreement with many others. No reason to refund any amount within 48 hours of reserved date and check in time, also No shows by check-in time that site immediately goes to an open site.
Better yet, quit trying to provide the public with every little luxury in life. “Go First Show, First Serve” like it used to be and be done with the whole issue. At the very least, have only half the sites, reserve, the others open sites.
If campsite isn’t occupied in first 24 hrs, or late arrival notice provided, automatic cancellation with no refund. Check box on reservation form for agreement to policy.
About the no-shows – if the reserver doesn’t show and has not cancelled, they should be put on a ding list, with a penalty such as not being able to reserve at that (or other system campgrounds) for a specific amount of time. I recently cancelled a reservation the same day because we didn’t like the look of the campground and while not expecting one, we did get a partial refund. It’s just common courtesy.
There has to be some incentive for cancellations rather than no shows.
Give a generous partial refund but only if
1) the original reservation was cancelled (the earlier the better the refund)
AND
2) Someone else rented the site after the original registration was cancelled.
The second condition might only be required when the campground (or a specific level of services) is full.
Automatic cancellations and Allowing someone else to rent a paid for site after a specific time is not necessary and creates another pressure on campers to arrive by a specific time and might result in a late evening hubbub after the curfew arrives and waiting campera set up in the dark.
However if someone no shows their site could be rented to someone else on the second night unless they can in to confirm their change of plans (breakdowns happen).
All of this is easy to do in the age of computers. It just takes intelligence, common sense, and a good computer programmer.
Well. Instead of refunding no shows, charge them more. Indicate on the reservation that no shows without cancellation will result in additional fees. Doctors do it. It works rather well. I bet that’d stem the tide
You’re right because the insurance will not pay either and it’s out of your own pocket for the no show appt. It’s legal.
Release the space after 24 hours of check-in time and no plopping of stuff down to save it. But often, campgrounds have no host to take care of things, and many have no cell phone or other service to make changes.
If I have a space that is undesirable, like next to a smelly vault toilet, can I move into a better one if no one has shown up to get it in 24 hours? With no host or phones, can I just move with no word to anyone? The guy shows up in two days and gets nasty, do I have to move again? The rules should be for everyone and clearly agreed to.
I like 24 hours because I often go early the next morning, like 7 a.m.
If no host, who would let recreation.gov know what is available if it isn’t canceled. Nearest phone service is miles away.
I do think no-shows should be banned from making reservations, period–unless someone dies. Of course, they can reserve with a different name or have someone else do it.
Cancellation minimum 48 hours out, with extra fee charged for no-shows (as previous commenters suggest), and reservation system will not accept another booking from that individual until all outstanding fees are paid. Rangers / park staff to identify empty sites on a special early morning circuit check; those sites placed on FCFS list with priority for walk-ins at office 1 hour before gates open, serving existing campers inconvenienced by site hogging no-shows, sites are then added to general online inventory at time of opening. Double booking revenue pays for early staffing hours for checking for empty sites, updating computer records and serving walk-ins.
As another comment I made said, if it’s reserved and paid for, it’s yours even if you don’t show up. It’s not up to a park staff person to decide to rent it to someone else. It would be nice if someone called and said they were not going to show, but – – -. Yeah, you could say you will only take reservations for 25 or 35%, BUT, let’s face it, it’s a business. If it was your business, you are going to say no you can’t reserve to that person on the phone with the credit card number out, and HOPE that someone will show up and book the site? No, you wouldn’t do that. I get that all you people who dont’ plan ahead are upset that there is not place for your last minute trip, and I have done it many times myself, but just because you don’t want to plan ahead, does not make any campground responsible for holding spaces for people like you. When I called around and found it booked, I called another place, or, if nothing, I did the parking lot, rest stop, or free National forest camp.
A good idea would be to have only 1/3rd of the campsites on reserve statis. The reservation program is not working! The people who really want to camp will come and fill up the sites. Those who do reserve should be charged full price from the get go with no refunds for cancellation! If they pay the money, they’ll show up! Make it sting a little if they back out. Also having less spots on reserve will make it easier to manage reservations.
If they are no shows with no phone call after 24 hours they lose the spot and forfeit their whole fee (unless it can be reserved by someone waiting). Most times it can be reserved by someone else. If someone else wants it and reserves the spot then the original person only loses the deposit. The campground is still making out and the new person wanting the spot is happy and the no show gets at least the deposit back. This is only if the campground can get another camper in. If no one else comes to reserve it then the first person loses all the reservation money.
Well, on the ‘no show’ thing. Here is a possible where this would not work – they reserved a spot for a week. They are supposed to show up on sunday afternoon. There are not there by Monday afternoon. Could be a truck breakdown, a trailer issue, a thing with the family, but hey, they work it out, and now are on the road to salvage some of the vacation they already paid for. They show up on Tuesday afternoon to find that their site – which they paid for – and did not get a refund for – is now occupied by another camper. If I was the origianl camper I would be talking lawsuit.
I understand that problems on the road come up, but, there still can be a policy of “required contact” if you are 1)late or delayed 2) cancel last minute. Every Doctor I go to sends out a text message reminding me of my appointment, if want to cancel hit yes or no. No excuses, everyone nowadays have their cell phones attached to their hip! I always call the park office if I am running late, after 3pm check in. Just courtesy and making sure they know I am coming. Less than 5 minutes of my time!
There’s this handy little device called a “cell phone”. Nearly everyone has one nowadays. They can call and let the park owners know they are going to be late. If they’re “no-call no-show” after a certain length of time, then that’s on the people who reserved the site. It’s a courtesy thing.
I have been delayed both camping and non-RV travel multiple times in multiple countries for multiple decades. I have ALWAYS contacted the hotel or Campground and let them know that I am delayed. It is not that hard.
In some cases I was not charged for the unused time. In some I was. My contact was not about refund, it was about managing expectations and being decent. If I make a reservation and then do not show/call/reschedule and the commodity is repurposed, the last thing I would do is threaten the host because of my failure.
If you can’t communicate to re CG your situation then that is a your issue. Put in the rental agreement that of you don’t call or text the situation you’re in then again it’s your issue in failure to communicate. Why is everyone making excuses for someone’s bad behavior.
Concerning open but reserved campsite. I’m sure there are lots of ideas this is just one. It Sounds like most late cancellations have reduced or no refunds so why bother making the call. If the cancelling camper is motivated they will make the call. Here is a thought. Full reimbursement if and when the space is re-rented. I’m sure an admin fee for processing could be charged to process the request.
I just thought of this solution also, but read yours as I was getting ready to post the same idea. Reservation systems could easily track whether a cancelled site gets re-rented, & an admin fee to cover the park’s cost to cancel & re-schedule would be reasonable. The earlier a camper cancels, the more likely the site would be re-rented & a refund issued, for part or all of their reservation, depending on how much of the original reservation got re-rented. This idea should be pushed by all rvers to the companies that develop campground software & to the park owners. If enough people push the idea, it may catch on & become standard practice.
Park owners want sites filled, even though empty sites are paid for, because occupied sites generate additional revenue for the parks in things like park store purchases, firewood, boat rentals, etc..
What if a camper was able to cancel their reservation right up to the same day but would only get a refund and or a partial refund if the campsite was rented out again by someone else? Because then the park would not be losing money for that particular site.
I think the best way to handle the cancellation of camping sites is that if folks cancel they will get their refund if the site is rebooked. If it isn’t, they don’t get a refund. But this way their site can be opened back up on line to other campers.
Problem is that if it’s busy season, or a large campground, the time and effort to do the paperwork, rebook, process new payment, process refund, etc., would not be worth the time and trouble.
Maybe all those reservation companies that take a cut now-a-days could do something useful and write a little programming code that would auto-manage all that. A good programmer could write that code in very little time. It would even benefit them because the original reservation fee is generally non-refundable and this allows another reservation to happen thus adding to their coffers.
I see a lot of ideas for cancellations etc, but I don’t think this would alleviate the problem much as people are trying to schedule ahead. If last minute cancellation is done because of weather then the site may not be rebooked for the same reason or because potential rebooked did not want to chance last minute wait and booked something different. There are limitations in booking as it relates to expenses and planning especially in trying to keep prices reasonable. Unfortunately that same pricing will have sites booked and they don’t feel bad if their plans change And they lose a couple bucks.
My 2 cents
The issue is not a more generous refund policy, it is that the current policy is too lenient. If you chose not to show up, or if you CAN’T show up (hey, there might be legitimate issues), and if you do NOT notify the park of your change of plans, at least on the day of your arrival, then your credit card is hit with a $50 penalty. Some parks say show up at least by the day AFTER your reservation, or we will consider the site available to others. That does not help those who rely on the comfort of having a reservation, however.
No shows at campgrounds should be not be allowed to hold another reservation for two years.
Amen
A lot of people say there is no problem getting camp sites. There’s an article in Oregon about people changing the reserved spaces, fist fights, and people attacking rangers. It is definitely crowded in summer.
Re: Unused Site Reservations.
The camper reserving the site may call or online donate or bank the time. The funds now returned are banked for use on a later date. This would give incentive to clear the site and the park could make money on a second camper who came “first served.”
After reading the comments I believe a call or text from the Campground in advance to confirm your arrival is the best way for CG’s and Campers to communicate. But I would like to know what percentage is of campers who don’t show up. Of all the campers making reservations (and this is what we are primarily talking about) what percentage actually don’t show up? I’m going to guess its low. And how do you know a CG will refund you if they are able to rent the site out? Did they? or did they just say they did? Doesn’t Harvest Host have a system for vetting(?) their members so as to protect the Host from getting screwed? Would like to hear from multiple campground owner’s groups to see how they would like to see it handled.
it’s simple. set up a swap feature. if people want to cancel, show those sites available for swap and the original camper gets most of their fee back only if someone books it.
Campsite no shows- a staff member must verify arrival days or a week out by text with a simple yes no response and offer a 50 dollar gift card or refund if respond yes.thank them for responding and we will be canceling your reservation off our system( so you can rent it) it’s more up front work but they have a small incentive to respond and camp makes More money. They could throw in a bonus refund if the site rents.
Even if they don’t cancel, treat the no-show like any hotel would. So the site sits empty for that first night, but then it’s released back into the wild for others to book. If, and only if, they get a booking for that site, they can issue a partial refund to the originals, but I don’t think they should unless legally required to. That’s the penalty for not cancelling the reservation like a proper adult should.
Stop treating campers like spoiled children. I have worked campgrounds and most visitors are too high and mighty and want everything their way. They must adhere to rules or lose out.
I just don’t see the issue. If you have paid for the site and don’t show up, or show up a couple days late who cares? The site has been paid for, it is NOT an open campsite.
I have ZERO issues with no refund 7 days out, however a confirmation system before this 7 days would make it much easier for the campground to put the site back into inventory.
Much ado about nothing.
It’s called consideration. Not much of that around anymore.
Who cares? Other people looking for a site and would use the resource vs wasting it. An empty site that could be enjoyed is an unutilized resource. But if someone needs to explain that, then it probably won’t sink in anyway.
To Nancy’s question: I agree that not giving refunds if cancelled on short notice is a problem as there is zero incentive for people. Many won’t take 5 seconds to do the right thing because they should…they need to be motivated.
I like Cliff’s airplane example. This incents one to cancel as soon as possible to give the greatest chance a rebooking will occur and thus all your money (except perhaps a small booking fee) will be refunded. The longer one waits, the less chance of rebooking and less or no refund.
In our flying club airplanes are reserved ahead. If a renter/pilot does not show up or call in the aircraft is released for another renter. If the plane is rented all is well. However if the plane is not rented by another member the original renter/pilot is charged the full renter rate for the entire period up to a maximum of 4 hours.
This same type policy could be applied by campgrounds. Refunds only if the reserved no show space is fully rented.
Re: Empty but Reserved Campsites.
Offer people who use the online cancellation a 15 to 2o% discount voucher for their next reservation. You’re still coming out ahead. You’ve kept the majority of the payment plus are able to rent it again. Also the website should be able to track that a voucher was used so they don’t get another one.
The system should alert the person, with options. After the first day of no shows. A) still coming just late B) put up for reservation ( in this option you will still be charged the full amount for not being responsible for canceling earlier but if someone reserves your spot or shows up without reservation camps there. You won’t get charged the nights taking by the campers that showed up.