By Chuck Woodbury
PUBLISHER
Sometimes you shake your head and wonder at something so outrageous that you marvel how it came to be. Here’s an example.
Emily and I attended a Seattle-area RV show a couple of weeks ago. One of our advertisers, Tom Sharp, had a booth and we wanted to meet him. Tom invented and sells a product called BoxKat. It’s for RVers and motorists who have problems with mice entering their vehicles and chewing wires. It’s a huge, costly problem, which you know if it’s happened to you (60% of our readers report it has).
Emily and I visited with Tom, a very enthusiastic and talkative man. We discussed mice and mice prevention. The most important way to keep them away, we all agreed, is to prevent them from entering our RVs or other vehicles to begin with. That’s where Tom’s product comes in.
Later, we explored some of the RVs on display. And, oh, my goodness, were we befuddled when we came upon a travel trailer with a ridiculous design flaw that begs rodents to come in, chew, and end up costing the RV’s owner a bundle to fix. I took photos. Everyone I have shown them to so far has marveled at how the design is one of the stupidest they have seen on an RV.
Oh … but don’t tell the mice. When they see it, if they could speak, they would certainly look to the sky and say, “Thank you, Mouse Lord in Heaven.”
Look at the photo directly below: It’s the vanity in the bathroom. Do you see where the water drain pipe exits the RV? Look at the huge opening. Methinks a mouse might observe all that space and decide to climb right up!
The photo below shows the area better. Keep in mind that all it takes for a mouse to enter an RV is a hole or other gap the size of a dime.
Emily, thinking it couldn’t possibly be an actual hole, stuck her whole hand down and out. Yup. It is indeed a hole straight into the outside world, a mouse’s outside world…
I did not have my writer’s cap on when I looked around this RV so I did not carefully document the scene. And I can’t remember the make or model of RV other than it was a trailer. But that’s not important. The point is to know that construction flaws exist and for a potential buyer not to assume everything is right.
I cannot tell you if a mouse could easily climb from inside the cabinet into the RV’s living space, but I suspect it could. At the very least, it would be a huge shock to an RVer to open the cabinet and have Mickey or Minnie shoot out — not to mention many other critters, too! If the RV was being stored, a mice or other rodent family would have a comfy, relatively warm nest, pooping and peeing at will, for you to somehow scrub away later.
But, really, the wide opening in the floor is just an example of the cheap, rushed and often crappy construction in many of today’s bargain-priced RVs. Emily and I only had time to explore a couple dozen rigs, but we found at least minor flaws in most of them.
I have repeatedly advised, along with our other writers and many of our readers, to inspect any RV you plan to purchase very, very carefully, from top to bottom. I imagine someone at the show ended up buying this trailer without even opening the cupboard door. I hope they like mice or find the opening and seal it up before the rodents take up residence.
##RVT1048
Yes – after 30 years of owning various trailers and motorhomes, only 1 trailer had any thoughts to sealing everything enough to keep out rodents. Grand Design trailer we just had, was well sealed and did a good job of keeping out rodents.
I too had only one out of (5) 5th wheels that did not need additional prevention. I use stainless steel wool (never steel wool as it will rust). I sold my last trailer and bought a well built Canadian made Triple Topez 2007 because it is just totally better built. It has a galvanized sheet metal under belly, can’t chew thru that. The power cord is generally “the stair way to haven” for mice to enter has been made in such a way it’s impossible when they use metal. It’s a little heavier trailer, but well worth it.
My first trailer had a rough cut 6×9 inch hole in the floor under kitchen cabinet for all hoses and wires on that side. move, snakes, rats could waltz right in. While there was a plastic cover on the bottom of the trailer, it had a dozen holes in it too!
The flaw in this article is that it inaccurately states “an example of the cheap, rushed and often crappy construction in many of today’s bargain-priced RVs”. It’s one of the type of flaws that happen even in relatively high priced RVs.
But RV’s keep selling, no matter the poor workmanship used in construction. To call it a lack of Quality Control would be giving it more credit then it would ever warrant. The units are built with the Manufacturers profit margin in mind and not with consideration for the Customers experience.
Your comment is confusing. But you and Chuck are absolutely correct: Manufacturers and camper salespeople are interested in only profit and not appreciating a happy customer..
My suggestion to new RVers: Buy a two-piece fiberglass RV like ESCAPE or BOLER.
They cost more but the return is a much higher quality and resale value.
After I purchased my Rockwood fifth wheel in 2015 I discovered a round hole in the floor, inside the bathroom cabinet. The hole allowed dirty laundry to be dropped down into the pass-thru holding area. I happened to have a 12″x12″ ceramic tile that fit right over the hole.
The round holes made for the rack and pinion slide tubes provide a “mouse freeway” into the underbelly. These must be sealed up or mice will come on in. Even for one night stops, I get busy and mouse-ify our 5th wheel. It’s a lot of work but so far in 3 years, prevention pays off. I also stuff steel wool under all corners of the slides.
A couple boxes of steel wool goes a long way in preventing this. Manufacturer’s don’t care, and dealers likely just consider it a Service income opportunity. It’s up to the buyer to prevent it.
Ahaha, can’t identify the brand of the rv , another lie or lets call it a voluntary omission, you should be writing for the mainstream enemedia
One in every crowd.
Wow, so you just call this person a liar. You must not be a regular reader on here or you would know that Chuck/Emily or the others would have no problem calling out the brand if they remembered who it was.
So rude. There was just no need for that. God bless you and keep you safe.
Go put on your tinfoil hat.
Looks like there’s a troll in the room..
“Enemedia”? Jesus.
I admit their omission of the manufacturer gave me pause. In a story this important (60% occurance)… you do wonder whose side are the editors on ? Do they accept kickbacks? I don’t mean to be rude ….
No, we do not get kickbacks. Sheesh! Chuck looked at lots of RVs that day and forgot to write down what brand this trailer was. That’s all there is to this. C’mon people. You know us, and Chuck, better than that! –Diane
And yet you accomplished rudeness so well!
While I wouldn’t call anyone out on it because I don’t have facts to base any judgement on, the way the article was written by first discussing the related product of a sponsor and then showing only one example of the issue with no callout of the RV manufacturer, and not really much of a helpful one due to how blatantly obvious that hole is, it could make one assume this was a thinly vailed promotion for the sponsor vs anything really helpful.
A helpful article on rodent prevention would show several examples of entry points, including far less obvious ones, and discuss multiple products that work including DYI fixes and not leave it up to the commenters to fill in the big holes.
Hi, Spike. Chuck wouldn’t have written that article if he and Emily didn’t see that huge hole in the trailer while they were at the RV Show. He used that as an example of some of the shoddy workmanship on new RVs. It was not intended as a “thinly vailed(sp) promotion for the sponsor”. BoxKat did not “sponsor” the article. Yes, BoxKat pays us a set fee to run its ads, but there was nothing extra paid for mentioning the product in this article, and we don’t get any kind of a fee from their sales. In fact, Tom Sharp, the owner/inventor of BoxKat, didn’t know until he looked in the newsletter this morning that he and his product were even being mentioned. It was just coincidental that Chuck and Emily saw that glaring defect in the trailer the same day they met Tom, who had a BoxKat display at that RV show. So, Chuck’s first and foremost reason for writing the article was to show it as an example to our readers of why they need to inspect any RV they’re considering buying very carefully for similar defects. And since this is a prime example of a literal “open invitation” for mice and other critters to climb inside, wouldn’t it have been kinda dumb to not mention the BoxKat in the article? This was not an article about rodent prevention, per se – it was an article about poor RV construction. –Diane
There’s a photo. Open your cabinet door and if you have a hole like that…well there you go.
I take it as mainly a warning. If you are shopping, open all the doors, etc. and pause to take a closer look.
Claudio, Chuck forgot to write down the name. He saw many RVs that day. It was not a “lie” or a “voluntary omission.” He would have put the brand in the article if he remembered what it was. So knock off the ignorant and untrue accusations. –Diane
For those advocating the use of steel wool to plug holes, bronze wool would be a better choice. It’s pricier but does not rust. Available on Amazon or a marine supplier.
That’s what I use, I wrap it around the shore power cord where it enters our trailer. Looks a bit odd but seems to do the job.
You can also get stainless steel wool.
Another flaw is the foam they use for…not sure what. I looked and looked for my low point drain (which is definitely a lot higher than the grey/black water and clean water tank drains.) I was poking around under my travel trailer getting it ready for Spring, and there was this large foam blob with a tiny bit of white plastic showing. If I hadn’t seen the label “low point drain” I would never have known. I cut some large chunks of the foam away from the 2 caps so they are now at least accessible.
From the looks of that hole, steel wool would likely fall out with the vibrations of travel.
Have had a 2017 LTV Unity since 2017. No mice have ever gotten inside. Only place they seem to find their way into is the engine compartment and the coach battery storage area, because they are both easy to enter. Have every gadget/repellent surrounding / under the RV. Have to give this company 5-Stars for buttoning up the areas that mice have always had easy access. I will never let my guard down, but am pretty pleased with this!
I keep my 30′ class A motorhome in a barn year ’round and have vastly reduced the amount of mice I catch inside the rig (1 in the past 6 months!) by positioning traps OUTSIDE the rig by my passenger side front tire. This was their preferred entry point for many, many years. I simply position 4 peanut butter baited snap traps (PIC brand is my preference) inside each of my 3 “Squirrelinator” brand traps. These “Squirrelinator” traps go anywhere from $50-$75 on-line but are worth every penny. I own 4. I utilize the 4th Squirrelinator trap on my kitchen floor with 6 baited snap traps inside, just in case. My rig is 24 years old with the original interior and all original wiring. Trust me, this method works fantastically. Don’t just use the snap traps without the Squirrelinator: any squirrels that do make it into the coach will “stash” the trapped, dead mice away as a future meal. Hopes this helps.
We have feral cats around and keep the critter population in check. Pulled the cover off opened the slides and no issues.
I love the idea of a fence. I hope to convince DW that it is worth the cost. Thankfully RV #2 is now in production. It is smaller than current RV (#1), so perhaps the reduced cost will assist my persuasion effort.
Meanwhile, thank you for your huge, steady, and relentless contributions to RVers (and whatever parts of the industry that care to listen) over the years. I regularly page back through the books I bought during the last days of the RV Travel bookstore, which coincided with my early days learning about RVing. Ditto the DVDs similarly acquired. I must have bought a copy of just about everything that you still had at the time. Thank you for so much of my RVing education through all those acquisitions you provided then and the years of RV Travel newsletters for the last 14, or so, years!
Thanks for your very kind words, Neal! We appreciate them, and YOU! On the other topic, if you’ve looked at the BoxKat website, you’ll see the picture of Tom Sharp’s 1991 Acura NSX. That’s what he originally invented the product for, after mice did thousands of dollars worth of damage to his car more than once. So he now doesn’t have any issues with mice destroying his car, and he knows the product does the same for RVs. I think it’s a good investment. Good luck! And Happy Easter! 😀 –Diane
Moving to Colorado might reduce your rodent problems. I have had 3 RVs stored in RV lots and on a gravel pad at my house. Not once have I ever had a mouse, rat, or squirrel problem with any of them. However, I have heard of RVs stored in the mountains (as well as cars) having wiring chewed off by porcupines.
On second thought, forget what I said. We have too many people here already! I am being facetious . . . more or less.
HAHA! Our worst rodent problems WERE in Colorado, hands down. Deer mice and Pack Rats. Spanish Peaks area at 6400 ft. elev.
We have a awful time with mice, mostly deer mice. We tried everything to keep them out of the camper. Irish spring soap- they eat it, but at least the camper smells good. Dryer sheets- they chew that up and use it for bedding. Cotton balls with peppermint oil on them also used for bedding, (peppermint only lasts for a few days). The best I have found is a simple trap. We lay down old newspaper and set traps on that. Don’t use peanut butter because they can lick it off. I use a nut and wedge it in so they can’t get it off very easily.( Walnut and pistachio nuts work the best for me) That gets them every time. I made small boxes out of pine boards with a hole in it. The lid screws on so I can open it up easily and set them around the camper outside with a trap in it. I get a few that way also. Never ends
Gee whiz folks. critters crawl up powerlines and in every opening you and I do not see. When was the last time we poked around under a RV at night when all the lights turned on inside. Like stars in the sky. folks leave the ceiling exhaust vent cover open, guess who comes in. Do you think a plastic screen is going to stop a curious “mini bear” ?
With our previous trailer every time we got to a campsite, the entire trailer would be full of dust and grit. The kitchen drawers would be full of dirt. We inspected and found on both sides of the trailer over the wheels were two huge (8″ x 12″) holes cut in the floor. The hole under the couch was for two Pex lines and the hole under the kitchen was for two Pex lines plus a drain pipe. Just laziness to cut that big of a hole and not fill it in so all the dirt kicked up by the tires came right in. Luckily where we live it’s too cold for rodents or I’m sure we would have had an infestation.
On our fifth when parked for a long time I put from legs in two cut down pails and add water(in winter Rv antifreeze).
Copper wool mixed with expanding foam to fill gaps. I fill the gear area on the slides with expanding foam.
if the trailer is plugged in for the winter I have left the radio loudly on a Country station.
No mice ever. If it didn’t work I’d put on Rap music…which I hate.
Mice are scouts for the inevitable rats that follow…and talk about damage. Whew, they’re the worse in my book.
No. If a rodent is inside, it will be almost assuredly a rat. And, rats eat mice. All the fantasy is in the Magic Kingdom and the only cuteness involving rodents is in cartoons. If a mouse senses a rat, it will head to the hills or nearest refuge in a wood pile to escape. Hardware cloth is a good barrier.
We changed out dresser in bedroom and found holes left by construction plus other places that would be hard to find. First RV was not as expensive but better about not seeing holes left behind. It was made by Heartland. Second one is where I had to fill in holes, Forest River.
All I know is that all my past travel trailers and truck campers never never never had mice. this 2018 Salem lite travel trailer i have has had mice since day one camping in it. Do not say I leave food around for them I bring food every time i camp the only place i leave food is in the frig. the travel trailers today are a piece of crap for the price you pay.
Just another page in the saga of “….cheap made expensive crap.” as my RV tech guy calls it. At least this rig I have now has not had a critter problem. Are they making any travel trailers or even the smaller lighter 5ers that can be really towed by half-ton trucks these days that is quality made?
I asked my RV guy this question.
He just laughs, seen it all.
This is a subject I’d like to read some articles on.
Until then my wheels are chocked, and my Dodge RAM 1500 5.7 Hemi is my road rig. I’m tent and cap camping until the RV industry makes an RV I’ll hitch up to again.
Sigh.
We too have some problems with mice getting into our camper, usually during downtime when the camper has been winterized and goes unused until spring. I did see the picture in the article of the holes. While I agree campers do have holes but could there be a reason for that? Remember they are build to go down the road, and with the bouncing, and flexing going on not sure how they might fare without some extra room for to allow for that. But agreed that hole around that pipe is much too large. I will say that our older camper never had any mice issues. Be interesting to see if now (and it wouldn’t surprise me) the holes are larger than they were in older models and probably don’t need to be.
We did have one infestation — mama had babies in our AC vents. We didn’t know about the babies, so sealed the hole after mama left. So we were left with a smelly problem that exterminators had to come fix for us. We have sealed every access we can find, and used FreshCab since then and never had another issue.
Another problem, not just with these large holes but smaller joints where no pains are taken to seal them off, is loss of inside “conditioned” air (heat or cool). With more campgrounds beginning to use metered electricity, that could be another good reason to seal up those cracks.
Look over your access points. Buy expanding foam (black, for ponds its prettier) pack of fine steel wool. Wedge the areas with the wool, and coat the wool. Start in the most remote corner, to overcome the learning curve, if you’ve never worked with the foam before. They hate wool dental floss and will reduce their entry events.
RV manufactures don’t care one bit about rodent entry, so be proactive and reduce your risk.
Great advice. Ditto what Billy Bob says about steel wool and foam.
When installing electric or water lines at the factory they cut holes that are three to four times bigger than needed. Not sure why. If I ever purchase another RV I will remove all drawers and inspect cabinets for openings Including where the hot water heater is. To close off openings. Unbelievable how big they make the holes to run small diameter wire and water lines.
It’s done for speed in assembly, it’s much easier to put something through a big hole than try to force it through a hole just the right size, and it’s less expensive to leave instead of installing a proper cover which would increase assembly time by at least 15 seconds. But if you’re building 40 units a day that adds up to an extra 10 minutes for each employee. Wow!
When we first bought our TT I bought the spray foam insulation, to my surprise when I got ready to go under and seal all the openings I found the manufacturer had all ready done so. They even sealed where the spring hangars come through the sealed underbelly, manufacturer; Mesa Ridge.
Exactly like our 5th wheel. Huge hole.
Hi there folks I’m from the UK and used to import RVS into England the quality went down when the major companies started buying up all the small companies and the salesman don’t help either. I was at the Louisville RV show one year and asked the head salesman of the DRV Don’t you PDI these trailers before they come to the show yeah we check them over his reply. I said well you won’t get some of the better eyesight that door over there is some crooked the screws are sticking out on the side of another cabinet then he replied if you want a perfect rv you won’t get one
No scientific evidence but I’ve always heard any hole a mouse can stick it’s nose through the rest of its body will follow.
The Boxkat is interesting and will probably be effective if placed on very smooth pavement. As you can see in one of the photos there are significant gaps when placed on gravel etc. In my forty years of experience in pest control I can vouch for the comment about a space the size of a dime. The comments about using foam with steel wool or a foam that has grit in it that you can buy at most big box stores is the best method.