YouTuber Will Prowse is known for battery teardowns and evaluating lithium batteries as part of his DIY solar videos on the video platform. But many RVers with Battle Born brand batteries have been circulating a new video of his that shows a potential hazard with the brand’s lithium batteries.
In a video entitled “Battleborn 12V Battery: Major Safety Issue,” with a featured image of the word “Dangerous” in large letters, Prowse disassembles a battery sent to him by a follower, who said the battery was having issues when charging. Very specifically, the terminal was getting quite hot during charging.
Poor electrical connections cause heat
One of the worst circumstances in any electrical connection is heat, especially extreme heat. Typically, this is caused by a poor connection. Many RVers have seen poor connections result in their 30- or 50-amp power cords literally melting, even if they might have an EMS or surge suppressor. In most cases, this is due to a poor connection.
When Prowse cut open the battery the follower had sent him, he found that Battle Born had used an aluminum lug to connect the battery terminal to the breaker bar, which had jiggled loose over time and caused a poor connection.
One of the things Prowse mentioned is a suggestion by some owners of these batteries, proffered in various forums, to wiggle the charge terminal until the battery starts charging properly.
Will Prowse on YouTube
DIY Solar Power with Will Prowse has more than a million followers. The channel is an honest look at a variety of components in the solar world, including RV solar and lithium. While some YouTube channels are highly sensational, Prowse’s down-to-earth and knowledgeable take on these things is refreshing.
The initial video was viewed more than 120,000 times in less than a week and prompted a follow-up video by Prowse. He cites a response from Dragonfly Energy/Battle Born batteries, where the company claims this is a failsafe designed to prevent failures and heat. That video beat the original one with more than 178,000 views in just five days.
Prowse read a response from Matthew Adams from Dragonfly Energy/Battle Born to one of his followers describing the “…aluminum nut design as being a purpose-built thermal failsafe. It is engineered so that the plastic deforms and disconnects when excess heat is present at the terminal.”
Prowse responded with, “… What in here is disconnecting? That is a failure!”
He then tested the battery with a charger and saw arcing inside the battery. “There is arcing inside—that is not a disconnect!” Prowse measured the connection at more than 200°F.
“If a laboratory is passing this as an overcurrent protection device, they need to be investigated,” continues Prowse. “This is not a safety feature.”
“This is 100% an issue.”
More tips
Poor connections can cause issues on a number of levels, but fire risk is one of those possible outcomes. In fact, on my own trailer, one of the lugs holding the wire to the inside of the 30-amp connector had come loose and created enough heat to start melting the connection.
I have a Hughes Power Watchdog, which I recommend to all RVers. But this device would have done nothing to prevent a fire if this loose connection inside the RV had become hotter or looser and caused a fire.
I have also seen a few people share that loose connections behind their converter had caused heat. As we all know, RVs travel on some pretty awful roads, and it’s quite possible that connections get loose. The best practice would be to check connections wherever possible. Also, use a laser heat gun to check for heat, particularly when there is a high draw, such as the shore power connection.
That could be the source of the issue outlined in Prowse’s video, where vibrations caused this lug to ultimately come loose and create this heated connection.
My opinions
As mentioned, I would make sure to have a temperature gun with a laser pointer in any RV, as it is. I use these to measure the temperature of wheel hubs, tires, and now electrical connections. Know what’s normal, and if you see a change, such as a connection getting hotter than it typically has been, then look at it more closely. Loose connections with electricity are always a problem. Always.
If you have this brand of battery, or any brand of battery, measure the connection at the battery terminal while it’s being charged. If you see a significant amount of heat, such as what was described in Will Prowse’s video, I would immediately contact Battle Born and see what their suggestion is.
As I watched the response from Battle Born, I couldn’t help but be reminded of the terrible response to all the frame flex videos and articles surrounding Grand Design and how that company went from having an absolute stellar reputation to one that I think has been called into question by a lot of even long-time fans.
Initially, Grand Design denied the claims, then offered a better warranty, and now is touting its new Omega frame and bragging about how much better it is.
Instead of taking the bull by the horns, admitting you have an issue and then working with your fan base to address it, it seems that companies in the RV space deny, deny, deny until they can’t deny any longer. That’s a terrible way to handle PR.
Further, a company with an otherwise stellar reputation like Battle Born could see that erode very quickly.
RVtravel.com has reached out to multiple email addresses at Battle Born Battery/Dragonfly and has received no response.
MORE ABOUT RV BATTERIES
- How to winterize RV batteries
- Follow-up to 12-volt roof air and refrigerator question. What are the best batteries?
- My RV’s “larger” batteries are dead. Can I replace them with lithium?
- Can different type and age RV batteries be mixed? Can I add a lithium battery?
- Will RV’s house batteries ‘play nice together’ if I replace chassis battery with lithium?
- Will my RV’s charger be sufficient for new lithium batteries?
RVT1240b
I wonder what’s the failure rate.
I initially installed 2 Battleborns on our prior MH. Then, the coach got serviced and the batteries probably went to zero for a prolonged time. After that, they wouldn’t take a charge. Dragonfly Energy replaced them under warranty. I was so impressed with the company’s customer service that I bought 2 more batteries and their Victron Multiplus 3000 watt inverter. Although we no longer have the coach, I keep in touch with its owner and they’re still working fine.
The temperature gun advice is critical. And I’m not defending BB, but they have made many models of battery with different designs. Is this problem related to a specific model or production run? BB should have been more forthcoming, but Will P is doing a bit of yelling fire in a crowd.
You clearly haven’t watched both videos. This started with 6 people telling him of this issue, then one sending him a faulty battery to diagnose what the problem was. Since then, dozens of people have found the same problem with their batteries.
You clearly don’t understand the issues with RV’s and batteries and YES Will is sensationalizing a problem that exists with any connection in an RV when used at high loads and vibration. I have 8 year old BB’s and check them often and never charge at 1C or even close. We don’t know the history of these batteries as any competent engineer would seek before making these proclamations. Will is not an “expert”, and his posts are pretty comical. He is gonna blow himself up one of these days I think.
This is quite alarming. I have three BB 100ah batteries in my fifth wheel and I’ll be checking them out.
I think checking the positive terminal to make sure it’s solid and not discolored could tell the whole story. I wish I had an idea of how many batteries and if there are specific production models or production years that were affected.
If you are not running these for an air conditioner, induction cooktop, convection (baking oven), or any high continuous load, they generally function well for several years. Short duration high current draws are probably OK. I lost 5 of my 6, 100 AH batteries. At times they were used for heavy continuous load. In the early 2020’s, I got free warranty replacement, but they have changed their stance, now charging $350 for shipping and handling, and rarely providing any warranty, always blaming the customer for something they did wrong. On my failures, I never had a severe overheating issue (they got quite warm), but rather the battery just failed due to the internal cell connection.
Sadly, the sealed nature of the battery construction makes impossible the simplest solution: refurbish the loose connection at the terminal(s). Battle-Born really needs to step up on this one. Perhaps they could saw open, repair, and re-seal the batteries? It would be a big and expensive recall, but overall it’s the best thing for their business, not to mention the ethics of it all. Stonewalling will cost them dearly.
Sadly, the deny, deny, deny approach to issues seems to be all industries’ response to problems. One question comes to mind. Are there other battery manufacturers having a similar issue?
This applies to their 12V 100Ah units part number BB10012. After viewing the videos I used a handheld thermal imaging device and could see internal heating under load. I have just pulled out the 4 installed in parallel in our motorhome about 4 years ago. I’m a retired electrical engineer and have decades of experience with battery technology and RVs and have posted articles here on RV travel. I tested ours this past week and confirmed 3 of the 4 are defective. I am replacing them all with better batteries at a lower cost from another vendor. If you have these BB10012 batteries in your RV, I strongly advise you check temperature under load and replace when possible.
To clarify, both the old 100ah battery design, as well as the NEW one (GC2) are equipped with the same problematic positive terminal design.
Myself & many others chose to pay much more for BB batteries (versus comparable products costing MUCH less) because of their ‘made in the USA’ marketing claims & an allegedly superior warranty.
The FTC forced both BB & Lithionics to cease the partially correct claims (Only final assembly of Chinese made components occurs stateside) …causing both companies to retract that boast. This debacle has also exposed BB’s marginal warranty value, and their appalling ethics.
Thanks for the additional info. I too paid more for these, expecting better quality for the price. So much for “Made in USA.”
Likewise, Ken, I have similar experience, also an EE and lots of experience with battery systems. I have cut one open, did a failure analysis, and I’m really pretty dumbfounded and somewhat horrified, by a design that only depends on contact pressure of an aluminum nut pressing against a bronze terminal (compressed by a plastic strip), meant to carry the full load on the battery through an aluminum bolt. My repair consisted of removing the connection and replacing it with a larger copper bolt, tapped and threaded through the bronze positive terminal. I’ve got another one to repair, but obviously I have to hack up the case and spend a couple of hours.
Thanks, good info – it seems like a waste to give up on them completely. I was thinking about fixing mine and using them with an old inverter for fixed location power backup at home.
Can you share any tips on opening up the case?
I have a pulsating plunge tool and a Dremel with a cutoff wheel. You want to cut in a way that leaves the terminals attached to the main case. Carefully mark the seams and score with the Dremel (with cutoff wheel). Then if you use the heavier tool, don’t go deeper than 1/4 inch to avoid cutting any inside wires. The ABS plastic will melt and also create dust, depending how long and how much pressure is applied. The dust is probably toxic and any small blobs of molten plastic will burn any exposed skin.
If you don’t mind me asking, what vendor are you replacing them with?
What’s best depends on the specific needs and installation conditions. My selection was driven primarily by the limited available space in my RV, and the reviews of the units by Will Prowse and others. I installed two Wattcycle 12V 314Ah dumb (without Bluetooth) units to fit in the space that just barely held 4 Bb 100Ah units: https://www.wattcycle.com/products/12v-300ah-mini-lifepo4-battery
Prowse’s review:
https://youtu.be/RBVlEk5_hpE
The Wattcycle units take up less space, weigh about the same as the BB units, have more than 50% additional capacity, and appear to be robust designs based on the tear down review. Not all Wattcycle units are well designed and vendor build quality varies!
Great article. I hope it makes it over to Facebook- there are many there who buy/use Lithium batteries.
I would like to see Mike Sokol, your electricity expert, offer his views as to BB’s technique for creating a thermal disconnect at the positive post of these batteries. The design defies electrical logic based on my informed, yet not expert observations.
Also, Mr. Sokol and/or RV Travel should reach out to UL to seek their opinion since BB says their batteries meet UL 2054 standards.
He’s moved on. If you search I’m sure you’ll find his page.
His YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=mike+sokol+rv+electricity
and E-mail Address:
rvelectricity@substack.com
Lots of big talk for years on BB’s “superior” batteries at triple the cost of others.
From Mike Sokol:
https://rvelectricity.substack.com/p/battleborn-update
THANK you for the first balanced information that counterbalances the sensational report by Will Prowse. All he really appears to be doing here is garnering more subscriptions and not revealing the fact that there are many many issues with using high amp loads in any RV electrical systems. For Example, Winnebago used tinned shore power wires on the ATS in Travato’s and Fuses in 2018 that resulted in poor connections over time and melted the ATS itself. NO fires occurred since the situation was self limiting and caused no fires so NHTSA did not get involved.
Using any RV electrical system at the limits of their rating subject all the connections to potential overheating.