For years, the National Forest Service has been dealing with a growing issue—careless dispersed camping squatters dropping off their RVs in the forest for an entire season with the intention of using them as “summer homes.” Outside of the Bighorn National Forest in Wyoming, Forest Service staff have turned to local communities to help combat the problem.
In a series of six public forums taking place in communities surrounding Bighorn, Wyoming, officials are asking for input and solutions on how to move forward. While the government body normally formulates a proposed plan prior to addressing residents, this time they’re taking a reversed approach.
Forest Service identifies two main problems
Recreation officer Andrea Maichak explained to the Buffalo Bulletin that the Forest Service is primarily concerned with two things: environmental and social impact.
Environmentally, many of these squatting RVers are destructive in their usage and damage the public land. Increased use leads to erosion and ecosystem changes, which can negatively impact wildlife populations. Additionally, improper trash and waste removal, such as continuous gray tank dumping, can harm the surrounding soil and water supplies.
The biggest struggle is the frustration that these individuals have brought to the greater camping community. Many locals have found that it’s impossible to find dispersed camping sites that are available, with unoccupied RVs taking up the majority of the spots. The Forest Service acknowledges that this is also a major concern for fire season. They have no idea who owns these RVs or if people are actively using them.
In most cases, “entitled” campers are simply bringing their rigs up to their favorite spot early in the season and leaving it there throughout the summer.
The community weighs in on dispersed camping squatting
The Bighorn Mountain Coalition Dispersed Camping Task Force, a group of individuals representing the interests of the local community, presented the Forest Service with four recommendations. These starting ideas were then expressed to attendees of the public forums, with comments, feedback, and suggestions being encouraged.
The four ideas were as follows:
- Assign Dispersed Camping Sites: Restricting campers to designated spaces would allow the Forest Service to keep track of RVs more efficiently.
- Implement a Sticker Program: Similar to the OHV snowmobile program, dispersed campers would be required to purchase an annual pass. National Forest officials commented that 95% of the revenue would be used to fund dispersed camping enforcement.
- Change the 14-Day Stay Limit: Currently, the Bighorn National Forest forces campers to move at least 5 miles away from their previous campsite every 14 days. Community members have suggested changing this rule to only allow for 14 total days of camping per season.
- Increase the Citation Fee for Overstays: Citation fees would be increased to $100 for exceeding the 14-day limit. An additional $20 would be charged for every extra day.
The problems of enforcement
As one of the least-funded government bodies, the National Forest Service struggles with adequate staffing. While passing new rules is great conceptually, it may be difficult for Forest Service officials to enforce.
In Bighorn National Forest, there is only one protection officer responsible for managing the entire area’s dispersed camping. With an increasing RVer population, managing public land usage has become difficult. The Wyoming community hopes that the proceeds from a sticker system would fund more staff to enforce the regulations.
What’s your take on these “squatters”?
Punishing those who abuse the rules, while not taking anything away from those that don’t, is quite the balancing act. Far too often, respectful campers find themselves paying for the misdeeds of a few bad apples.
Has your favorite National Forest also seen an uptick in inconsiderate RVers? I’d love to hear your solutions in the comments below.
##RVT1069b
People that use public land as a storage facility for their RV’s, especially those who infrequently use them, should simply forfeit ownership. Units should be either scrapped or put up for auction.
We said the same thing when we were counting them all.
Wow, I wasn’t aware that some RV owners were using the national forests as a RV storage areas.
Is this mostly a local issue?
I don’t see someone living in another state leaving a RV in the national forest for months on end. It would probably be stolen.
How long have these RV’s been parked in these national forests ? Weeks? Months? And they haven’t been vandalized?
If a RV is left in the national forests for any length of time, grass and weeds would grow up around it.
I’ve read about homeless and drifter’s living in tents or old vans in the forest.
They will often break into cabins or homes to get food, money or valuables.
I’ve also read about day hikers leaving their cars in forest parking lots, only to come back after a days hike and found their car was broken into. Some even had tires stolen!
These criminals today are bold, knowing that prosecutor won’t charge them with any crime.
Have a bunch of old uneducated white guys wearing camouflage on ATVs displaying political flags toting AK-47s to patrol these sites that also have stickers displaying that they don’t like California’s
Yes it is an issue in a lot of places, I live in southwest Montana and see it all the time!!
Where we go camping, there has been one camper there for almost 2 years and Forest Service has done nothing. Have seen others camping around it🙄
You can pontificate until agnosium the fact of the matter folks is the people who need to read this won’t and probably can’t because they don’t know how to read. So after 15 days tag remove prosecute if you can but the reality is we as taxpayers are going to pay for this that’s the reality or we get the uneducated white guys on ATVs wearing camouflage with AK-47s with political Flags waving
Many times it is very obvious that a rig/setup has been in a spot for a long time. Allow campers to report the rigs to the local office. The rigs should be towed and sold at auction after notice sent to registered owner, proceeds to be retained in the local forest for maint/enforcement and not sent to Washington. Substantial fines should be assessed to the registered owner and collection turned over to the IRS. A portion of the fine given to the IRS for collection the remainder to be given to the local office maint/enforcement not sent to Washington. The violator should be the one punished not the rest of us following the rules. If the local office will have a published clean up day a couple times a year, many of us would happily volunteer. Provide a dumpster(s) and have an organized kick off spot. Many of us fulltimers are constantly picking up after others but do not have anywhere to put the trash. Word will spread quickly amongst violators.
Great idea!
Solution simple. Haul them off the federal land. Can’t understand why this has become a problem.
Cost.. very expensive to do and need a plan to recoup it.
If the need arises to haul them away, they could be sold at auction. Why does this need to be as complicated as sending someone to the moon?
I appears to me that many of them sitting out there unattended and basically unused would bring anything at auction. Old trailers are not like old cars that can be parted out or crushed and the mostly metal be recycled.
Use the same methodology as they do with keeping abandoned cars from accumulating on the highway. Put a sticker on them announcing impoundment if not moved within a certain time limit. Fees and fines to be collected. How is it the owners can’t be identifed? No license plate/VIN # = more fines.
Good idea… and every time after the fines get substantially steeper. Its the same people every year no doubt.
Problem may be the ability to tow these units away. How many ranger trucks have hitches? If they hire a towing company, how much will that cost?
Contract the towing to the outside so you do not add staff or equipment cost/maintenance. The cost of the towing/storage passed on to the violator. If abandoned towing fees can come out of the auction. If the sale price does not cover, tack the shortfall onto the fine to be collected by the IRS collection dept. and go after the registered owner. Minimum manpower needed for this.
I doubt many of these trailers would get any money at auction. How do you find the owner of an abandoned trailer?
Typically the owner would have to pay just like when vehicles are impounded in a city. Bigger issue may be storage of all the impounded RVs the first year until the word got out. For those that don’t come get their RV and pay, issue an arrest warrant.
I have seen this same issue on a small public primitive no-fee campground in my area. Rule is no more than 14 days annually. People haul their campers in there and let them sit for months only occasionally attended because there is no enforcement. Free camper storage and a locked up site. The large signage with all the rules for the public land had the camping rules sanded off…I’m sure so some squatter could deny they knew.
I used to have a manager who always said “What’s inspected is respected.” Tough enforcement, fines and confiscation is the only solution that will work. “Pretty Please” won’t do anything.
Towing companies DO NOT WANT TO TOW AWAY RV’S!
RV owners rarely pay to git old RV’s out of Hock so why would a towing company operator waste equipment costs, people resources and storage lot space on an a squatter RV that the RV owner will not retrieve and/or pay the storage and towing bill? Squatter RV’s at auction will not bring the cost towing to the storage lot.
RV’s are hard to git rid of for the towing company just like an individual as the scrap metal dealers, landfills and other refuse collection sites WILL NOT TAKE EM! Way to much wood and other materials they cannot process.
Don’t believe me???
Just call around and try to git rid of an RV to a scrap dealer or other refuse resource. Free to good home may not work!
Here is a solution!
Why not hook up to one of these squatter RV’s and tow it just far enough away to git the squatter RV to a little bigger road/trail or on the side of the road, drop it there which will make a problem for the Ranger and most everyone else.
At that point SOMEBODY will do something with that RV and remove it from the park!
Problem Solved!
Bull, you are correct. Tow yards want nothing to do with old trailers. Recycle yards do not want them either. We need to pay a deposit on them, paid by the manufacturer when purchased, and the manufacturer put that money aside to take care of getting rid of it.
Bwhahahahaahahahahh. yeah right Kelly – you can, not me!
LOL – in Wyoming – SOMEBODY (that owner) will do something and you will never be seen again.
Finally, this issue comes to light. We go up there every year and see this problem. On 3 road alone we stopped counting at 100 unattended trailers.
I agree with the treating them as an abandon vehicle. When owners come to get them, they also get a fine as well as the tow bill.
Its problematic when you see rangers contacting campers that are there but stayed 15 or 16 days but yet allow the squatters there the entire season.
EXACTLY – selective enforcement!!!!!!
The Forest Service keeps trying to provide recreation with absolutely no staffing. Clearly the answer is paying for a few rangers and hiring a few tow trucks. Once word gets out that you’ll have to ransom your rig at an impound lot for $800, the squatters will go back to the streets.
As far as no manpower, I see plenty of office personnel at the various headquarter buildings. They need to get out in their own forest and do what needs doing. Still need money? Raise fees on logging and mining.
I agree on the office staffing. Same situation at BLM headquarters. And to some extent, state parks too. I guess you aspire to an office promotion so you no longer have to work. Typical government job.
Tommy, you are somewhat correct. However, it has come to having to have so many office workers, in gov’t, to follow all the regs, file reports, etc. that the gov’t has created. It is stupid. I know. I worked for a State Gov’t.
Contract the towing to the outside so you do not add staff or equipment cost/maintenance. The cost of the towing/storage passed on to the violator. If abandoned towing fees can come out of the auction. If the sale price does not cover, tack the shortfall onto the fine to be collected by the IRS collection dept. and go after the registered owner. Minimum manpower needed for this.
. . . Provided the true owner can be identified.
true owner dependent BUT our leader has authorized ALL THOSE NEW IRS AGENTS…hmmmmm
No logging or mining permits granted by government. Forest Service used to almost make money from the land, as their congressional duties were met to provide money back to the gov. Can’t be done now. Plus, the budget mostly goes to fight fires because they can’t do their jobs and manage the forest. Things have changed.
Hard to find Forrest Circus folks whe you actually NEED help – I guess they are too busy writing tickets? You will be glad to know they all have brand NEW green trucks (thanks taxpayers) tho
I agree, if funding for enforcement is the problem, raise the fees on logging / mining on federal land.
Happening in Colorado as well, we have seen numerous instances that have increased in the. past several years especially. Areas in the Rosevelt/ Arapaho National Forests that we frequented for years for dispersed camping vacations are now occupied, sometimes with multiple units, setup for long term stays, usually nobody around!!!
This is happening in Utah too. People park their RVs in dispersed camping areas and let them sit all summer (or near Zion, all winter). I’ve met people bragging about living in the forest for months for free when there is a 14 day limit. There is nobody to police the area so they get away with it. Unfortunately, our beautiful forests are getting trashed. I guess people feel the rules do not apply to them. Sad times.
Towing creates another problem. Many of these rigs would simply be abandoned. They will have been stolen, or registered 5 states away, years old info. There would need to be a plan to recycle/destroy them, not sell cheap so they can be towed back out.
A big problem is side-by-sides and 4 wheelers. They are ripping up roads and terrain in the forests and deserts. Throwing out their beer cans and whiskey bottles and trash out wherever they feel. They have no respect for campers or anyone as far as that goes. They drive as fast as they can and dig trenches in the roads or wherever they can do a spin out. They are destroying the natural habitats and really don’t seem to care. I’ve seen it in the deserts and I have seen it in the national Forest. It don’t matter what time of the day.They are out there even in the middle of the night and that’s a fact. This has to stop or our national Forest and deserts will be destroyed and our children and their children won’t be able to enjoy these privileges. Check it out for yourself.
Think bigger. Far greater destruction results from NFS giving forests to wealthy lumber companies and from ignorant fire management and from climate destruction by fossil fuel and meat production.
Fyi pretty much all lumber activity from the forest service are only assigned in areas that are in need thinning for watersheds and/ reduction of wildfire likelyhood.
Assigned spots? That’s idiotic. Having an assigned spot waiting your arrival is what KOA’s are for.
The existing rules, perhaps fortified by increased fines, would do the job . . . if they were enforced. And enforcement requires personnel, who must be paid. And, taxpayers (or -haters), you get what you pay for. The idea that there are plenty of people in the agencies but they’re all hiding in office jobs is ludicrous. We need more enforcement personnel, and a culture that supports them, in this case with tow trucks and impound lots.
Stickers with dates on them on the under belly of the trailer/RV. The fines are too low. Bump it up to 1000$ with 100 per day afterwards. Then tow after 10 days. Immediately scrap if not paid within 30 days. Or give it to charity they will do the hard work.
There should be no soft play here. It’s a natural resource that needs to be respected.
I like the charity angle, tow and if not sold, there has to be a charity that would work on these and sell them for CASH or to help some in society that may be out of housing and could afford the camper in a legal place to stay. If all else fails and the camper is a POS, crush it after salvaging parts to a used camper boneyard.
As with most issues now it boils down to people feeling rules are for everyone else but not for them. We have created two generations of people raised to believe that nothing is their fault, they are more important than anyone else, and the rules don’t apply to them.
Which generation are you referring to? I can say as a USFS forest protection officer that I deal with as many boomers squatting as I do millennials squatting.
I experienced the problem in the Bighorns first hand a number of years ago and wrote a blog about it which you can read here. From the comments I received many feel they are entitled to leave their rigs there all summer. Agree that enforcement is needed.
Higher fines, more personnel. Pay the forest personnel more and you’ll get more ppl. It would be a great job, but it doesn’t pay enough. I’d gladly do the job…if it paid enough.
Require that RVs must be occupied. Fairly common rule in RV campgrounds. If you have to be away overnight the campground requires notification of management.
Talk about feeling privileged!! So when a Forest Ranger ( and thanks to them!) finds an unoccupied RV, ticket it with a warning on the 1st round ( occupants could be hiking, etc), follow up 3 days later, ticket it and put a wheel lock on it. If they want the RV back, it’ll cost them $5,000 which goes to the Forest Service. If they don’t claim the RV within 30 days, Forest Service owns it. Thank you for you contribution.
If a camper isn’t current on registration, tow it. Cite the owner and charge them tow fees. If no registered owner can be determined, sell at auction, put funds to enforcement. If a campsite is occupied over 14 days: occupants not present, cite and tow to impound, occupants present, give two hours notice to move or be towed and cited, also inspect camp for illegal dumping, etc. and cite as needed.
Many of us camp far more than 14 days per season. Limiting camping to cumulative 14 days per season is not reasonable.
I live in Boise county, Idaho, likely one of the most popular dispersed camping areas of the State. Active patrols and coordination between the county sheriff, forest service and other agencies, along with public support and reporting works well. Not 100%, but definitely better than some areas. I saw the same success up north, around Priest Lake, when I was deployed on fire guard duty and working with local law enforcement and forest agencies. Enforcement works!
We also camp more than 14 days, and are responsible enough to take our camper home. We also make an effort to pick up trash and leave the campsite in good order!!
Just drove through an area straddling the border of Utah and Idaho. Within a mile saw a suspected half dozen of these cases. Some sites also seem a little scary/threatening, like their occupants are up to no good. What if surveillance were crowd sourced with a picture and GPS pin. Repeated reports could then be investigated.
LMAO yeah right Karen.
A group like the Friends of the Bridger Teton NF could help with enforcement and reporting. They have volunteer camp hosts who patrol and educate people in popular dispersed camping sites and have helped keep those spots open and free. They even raised money to install and maintain pit toilets. If such a group were formed. They could be the ones to work with an outside towing group to have the campers removed. If unclaimed within 60 days, put them up for auction and let the funds go back to the enforcement and education.
Any one thinking Booting the rig and steep fines that stay with the area. If not picked up and paid by a certain date – towed. We have the same problem in Utah!!!
1)Lots of campers would volunteer to help with the problem of “squatters”
2)Flatten there tires after 14 days
3)Have them towed with a hefty impound fee
These are the people who give campers a bad name
It might be simple:
1) RVs must have current registration. This way the Ranger and DMV can obtain the legal owner’s record.
2) Any RV not displaying current registration Plates & Tags, will be towed immediately.
3) Dispersed camping sites will be GPS tagged. Then those sites, will be marked as occupied by said RV, with registration Plate/Tag number on the camp site post. Once 14 days have elapsed, the site post will be marked, with the RV tagged for towing in 3 days.
4) Any RVs with leaking tanks will be towed, for Environmental damaged (EPA) regulations immediately.
My sentiments exactly, this is the only way to eradicate the problem!!! After 14 days tow the rig out, leaving a sign saying who, where and why it was towed!!!
These are great suggestions!
The federal agencies when hiring need to hire problem solvers and those who worked their way up the ladder and experienced. Which isn’t always the case. When you look at some of the applicants resumes. They are genius, but when it comes to solving and handling problems/issues they don’t have the foggiest idea. As a retired federal employee, I’ve seen employee resumes and knew their work ethic’s and knowledge. Sometimes the agency tries to tie your hands with meeting a minority quota. Which in some areas is difficult for experience needed. I always hire the best qualified candidate no matter their race or ethnic. I wouldn’t have had any problem solving this issue.
How about the forest service opening more areas for dispersed camping. I’ve seen some really nice places that can accessible without causing any environmental issues and are mostly out of sight.
Towing companies DO NOT WANT TO TOW AWAY RV’S!
RV owners rarely pay to git old RV’s out of Hock so why would a towing company operator waste equipment costs, people resources and storage lot space on an a squatter RV that the RV owner will not retrieve and/or pay the storage and towing bill? Squatter RV’s at auction will not bring the cost towing to the storage lot.
RV’s are hard to git rid of for the towing company just like an individual as the scrap metal dealers, landfills and other refuse collection sites WILL NOT TAKE EM! Way to much wood and other materials they cannot process.
Don’t believe me???
Just call around and try to git rid of an RV to a scrap dealer or other refuse resource. Free to good home may not work!
Here is a solution!
Why not hook up to one of these squatter RV’s and tow it just far enough away to git the squatter RV to a little bigger road/trail or on the side of the road and drop it there. Make it a problem for the Ranger/visitors to remove.
I would think that enforcing the existing laws would solve most of the problem. But, as it now stands, our elected officials, who approve the annual expenditures, choose not to provide adequate funding for the purpose of enforcing the USFS laws. So, a solution is to write your elected officials and ask them to raise your taxes so the USFS can hire more law enforcement officers.
UH NO! Feel free to donate your salary tho! I pay taxes and the National Forrest is part of that tax base.
We were looking for dispersed camping options in AZ last spring. Many RVs along the forest service road, but most appeared to have no one there. Seems like a National problem— until USFS can truly enforce rules the rules won’t mean much. It’s good that they are reaching out to locals, because many times it seems the local residents are among the biggest offenders. The locals think of the forest as theirs even though all of us citizens share in tax burden and benefits.
This is so true! I’ve been to places where the people are upset because I’m not from their state like I’m in a different country illegally. It was so uncomfortable. I’ve also been to places where the people are so friendly.
Yes, strong action NEEDS to be taken against those who abuse the system. Keep it as simple as possible. Be ready to impound and tow offending RVs (and CHARGE the violators the cost of said tow and impound storage). Get a few violators in court, throw the book at them and show ALL users that blatant abuse will NO LONGER be tolerated. A few of the worst violators behind bars WILL send a strong message of deterrence to others who are considering this illegal course of action.
Sounds like a abandoned vehicle situation. After 14 days tow, impound and auction off with the proceeds going for the cost of the tow, impound lot and auction fees, enforcement. The squatters are not only abusing the privilege of camping in a National Forest they’re using it as a cost free winter RV storage space.
cost free winter RV storage space? Uh, No. I assume you have never been to WY in the winter? LMAO
Tow the RV’s to a parking lot to contact the owner.
In Michigan people seem to be quite respectful of the law & keeping the land with a leave no trace mentality! I think even if you stay dispersed, you should have to hang a tag with current date on it & I would tow unoccupied rvs to an impound lot. Have a sign hanging in dispersed areas with the warning of impound/fines. That May slow them down! I love to go camping but ignorant people ruining it for others is upsetting.
That’s a good system! It would be too bad to shrink existing dispersed camping for those that follow the rules otherwise.
Fewer dispersed spots every year. Road closures by the Forrest circus EVERY YEAR – along with the loss of remote camp sites.
Easy
Outsource enforcement and enforce laws on the books.
Simple answer. $50 bucks per Night. Upgrade the Amenities with Camera’s.
Provide a Ranger on Call 24/7…
Honestly the Jerks that ruin these wonderful places for everyone.
Arrest, Proscute, Convict. Repeat.
Camping for the rich only? Not very All-American, Steve.
Cameras everywhere in the woods? Talk about creeeeepy.
…and there’s enough idiots flying drones everywhere as it is.
Heather, I’m in New Hampshire where $50 a night is about unheard of. Most are way above $60.
Unfortunately, only way to keep the Riff-Raff out. Vandalism and Littering are Un-American. Not discouraging them is Unamerican. Everyone suffers for a few. Gotta pay if you want to play.
What I’m afraid of here is that such attitudes scapegoat all boondockers & boondocking in general. RVing is NOT playtime for everyone.
It’s too bad some bad apples are going to spoil it for all the others.
In Pike National Forest simply reducing dispersed camping to specific sites and requiring registration almost eliminated the druggies who were camping wherever they wanted for as long as they wanted, then leaving all their trash.
Maybe the same could work for that area.
Since most of these comments suggested towing – please read Bull’s comments. I think he has a good take on the situation. “Perhaps” if these are local folks they will want the RV/Trailer back, but many won’t want to go to the trouble for a 20 year old trailer.
We just enjoyed dispersed camping in the Big Horns and noticed at many locations campers were parked and obviously closed up and not being used. This was bothersome because most of the time they were in very good spots. We pay to park our camper when not in use so this practice is unfair to campers that don’t want to pay. With the NFS being short staffed, it makes enforcement difficult.
Perhaps consider a volunteer group assigned to specific areas that they would patrol once a week or every 14 days and they tag the rv, take a picture and if it’s still there next round it gets towed. I would volunteer for such a group as these law breakers impact my dispersed camping.
The north end has had volunteers like this every year… They come back nearly each year show they understand how to do it properly. The south end not so much, but it’s hard to have people do this in an effect manner and not get on their own power trips.
Tow the rig if it goes over the current 14 day stay. Owner will need to pay all expenses associated with the action to reclaim the RV.
Simple solution. Start towing they’ll stop stowing..
Proceed with your plan as it is most logical and right for the land. More rangers and watchers are needed everywhere. STOP SQUATTERS.
Implementing a Sticker Program makes the most sense to me.
7 day stay only! 200.00 ticket for overstay plus days over fee. Removal at 14 to impound site.
There are so many inaccurate statements in this article. The biggest being there is only one FPO taking care of dispersed camping is the biggest lie there are a handful and more on top who might not write the ticket but keep track of them until the 14 day and they hand it off to someone who can. There is also no recommendation for only 14 days of camping for the entire year. Changing citation fees is also not the simple to change it would require an special order as the current regs under the cfr are did 1st offense 2nd offense etc. Also there had been no defined percentage for what the tags funds.
I read it to mean one LEO, which matches what I see on Appalachian forests. If gear is getting posted all season, how difficult to make contact and ticket? How long does FS wait to impound RVs?
No more regulations!!!! The big horns are great because you don’t have to reserve spots on a government site. Enforce the 14 day rule. Up the fine if you want. There are campers that don’t move all summer, but moving every other weekend should ensure everyone gets their favorite spot eventually. Save a lot of fuel not pulling the rig home every trip. I’ve never went up and not been able to find a spot.
I agree completely that these are the best tactics to enforce.
As someone who is retired and enjoying all this great country has to offer the 14 day limit is nice and it should have a fine for violations that generates revenue that is kept in the area affected allowing that district to use it as they see the need. The only once per year does limit the ability to return later on the way back for further enjoyment though. This money needs to stay under local control not donated to the federal government for their designated use.
Suspend dispersed camping on public lands. Develop more fee-based campgrounds.
Stop the use of public lands period. Unless you are wealthy and famous, of course.
I camp in the Wind Rivers every summer for 2 weeks with my family. This year someone had dropped a camper off and left it in our favorite spot. We set up all around him anyway. He showed up on our 10th day, got mad, and pulled his rig out. Perhaps if everyone did the same as my family, squatters would get the idea.
I think the sticker or window pass with a 30 day pass, fines for overstay, tow and auction off after 30 day overstay.
I do think that those who don’t follow the rules should be fined. Those who leave there RV unattended for longer than 24 to 48 hours should be towed like we do cars on the highway. I love camping sometimes in my tent and sometimes in an RV. I have never camped for longer than 3 to 4 days because I am not free to do that yet. But, when I retire it is my plan and I hope I will be able to camp for 14 days at a time then move on to the next great adventure. I don’t think 14 days a year is a good idea.
Should it be longer or shorter? If longer you are giving all opportunities to camp to the long term campers and telling everyone else ..sorry you cannot come until retirement
Gracie, we don’t need to add more rules and tasks to a simple system, we’ve use our camper as a base camp quite often leaving it to go deep in to the Backcountry (biking,skiing, flyfishing, scouting/hunting) and will be gone 3-6 days, come back to recharge and repeat it rest and leave. 14 days, after that if they’re still there, they get towed and impounded just like in cities / towns for illegal.
How about pay a small fee every 30 days and get a new sticker every month and stay for as long as you want as long as your sticker is valid there should be no issues …people who do not pay each month would have to leave or get towed out at there own expense ..Supply free dump stations and fresh water for boon docking.
Finally! A voice of common sense! Its all about revenue for the Forrest circus! Lets make it 20 bucks a night with a minimum of 30 nites – and renew as many times as you want. The Feds get their pound of flesh for using taxpayer lands and we get to pay (again) to do so!
After reading sooo many comments I am appalled at the total lack of any common sense. Solution: Set up rules and enforce them! #1 Set up number of consecutive days allowed to camp.#2 If number of days exceeded, rv or gear is impounded. At owners expense. #3 Get pertinent information from campers when they check in. That info being, 1. Name 2. address 3. Drivers license number 4. If they have a rv, plate number. # 4 Assign camp sites. Any monies collected could be used to help finance the program. Most of all, ENFORCEMENT OF THE RULES!!!
George! They can enforce the rules they have on the books NOW. The forrest circus is such a beauracracy no one wants to work for the dumpster fire agency. Even the seasonal dolts. That is the problem.
Read thru a lot of the comments suggesting towing, stickers, fines, etc. What a management PIA those suggestions would be. Get a portable vehicle crusher and turn these abandoned RV’s and trailers into three cubic feet of recyclable material. No need to add a lot of staff to deal with these things, a couple additional headcount should be able to handle the crushing and hauling of this junk.
Easy, enforce the rules already on the books, I do suspect after a few more years all these new RVers will drop off and it will go back to pre Rona stats.
I noticed squatting issues in the Bighorns the first time I visited 10 yrs ago, but its happening all over and getting worse every year. I love the freedom of dispersed camping, but like anything, if there is a way for someone to selfishly take advantage of a system that has little-to-no means to control or enforce (and dispersed camping is very much in this category), some will surely do so. While I hate to say it, I don’t think there is any way to improve the situation without implementing some sort of registration process. How to do this out in remote dispersed sites? I’m not really sure. I suppose you’d have to designate and mark sites and then put registration boxes along near the main access/entry roads.
I agree with the permit/sticker idea. Personally, I can make my water, grey, and black tanks last about 3 weeks, you must live minimally? I carry extra jugs of water, I DO NOT do any illegal dumping.
If it is a length of time for some people and their only getaway? Have you looked at charging as LTVA – this seems to work in AZ
These rules will ruin it for everyone, that seems fair! Everyone suffers. Just use contract enforcement and let’s contractors profit by selling off illegal RV squatter vehicles.
Exactly what Jorge said☝️, pretty easy to tell the difference between true squatters site (likely a camper that doesn’t look safe for road travel and crap laying everywhere vs a retired couple or family of 4 site) . Do it like most all the cities and towns around the country with illegally parked cars, have a private party towing company tow the camper to impound, they don’t pay towing/impound/NFS citation fees before so many days…….it gets sold at auction.
My wife and I use these NFS 14 day sites a lot for recreation, best year was 96 days between 2 districts…….we’ll be P.O’d if they cap it to 14days per season.
Amazing how soft this country is getting with it’s “governance”
old RVs have very little resale value.
Have you tried to buy a used RV lately?? Even junkers were going for crazy prices a year ago. High gas prices have caused them to pull back a little, but not much.
Seems like the problem is lack of common sense. The answer seems to be, correct a lack of enforcement. After 14 days issue 3 day warning and tow them, purchase a tow vehicle or (truck with a hitch) for each area tow them to some unused federal land and use them for housing the homeless. Go after the violators where possible and collect fines and use those funds for this program, the newly housed homeless could also work in the program so many hours a week to support it. Shouldn’t be rocket science to get these abandoned vehicles moved somewhere where they can provide a benefit to others.
Right, Gary. I think you should take on this project and show them how to run an efficient, effective dispersed camping/ homeless housing facility. You may find that doing it effectively and within budget is more rocket science than you think.
Impound the RVs that are unoccupied for more than 21 days charge $1500 impoundment fee..make people buy a sticker upon entry to keep track of how long they have been in the park
Have a campground host stay there like other places. There is alot of retirees that love being hosts.
The issue isn’t with a campground, but dispersed camping throughout the 300+ sq mile Nat’l Forest.
Excellent Idea! Worked for years before COVID! Most host helped keep the disperesed camping moving – qnd were excellent folks to have morning coffee with.
So sad, discovering that was so cheap when I was homeless saved me from predatory RV park owners. Seems like a few people always ruin it for everybody.
Post rules. Patrol areas and post warnings. If units are not moved move them to an impoundment lot.
This issue is like almost every other issue, you have the 5 to 10% of people that cannot regulate themselves and the rest of us pay the price! Pretty soon you will have no off road camping or free camping because others are trying to save a buck or don’t want anyone in “their” camping spot.
The Forrest Circus is closing dispersed spots and roads in other camp spots in the BigHorns yearly. Fewer spots – no new spots and increased demand. If you think the Forrest Circus has any feasible answers, beyond writing tickets/fines, you need to revisit just how good a job the Federal Government has done at managing other venues (education, health care, VA, etc)…. good luck
Eliminating or restricting dispersed camping will put pressure on the very limited paying nfs campgrounds. Enforcement is the answer of existing rules.
Quit giving the homeless such a hard time. Unless of course they’re messing up the surroundings some people don’t have much and this is how they survive. Maybe work to create another area for these individuals preferably with showers just at a lower cost. I’m just saying possibly it’d be easier and kinder to work with them and not against them. Unless of course they’re abandoning their RV. Then impound that.
You are assuming it’s a “vagrant ” issue. Sounds more like folks wanting to squat on their favorite camping spot and not giving it up for the season, which violates the use of the commons.
If the person is a nomad, they will be with their rig. And taking care of the issues stated above. If not, land is trashed and Grey water is being dumped. You get fined and told to go.
Not sure how one person’s economic status is everyone else’s problem.
Respect isn’t based on social economic status. It comes from the character of the person.
You can be “homless” and be a good Steward of the land, just as much as a “domiciled” can be disrespectful and flagrant.
Real issue is we are in a society that offers no consequences for violating common sense.
I agree..I’m in the same situation where my RV keeps me from living on the streets with out any shelter…I would like to see things go back how they was back in the 1980s where camping was free for all all over america.now there are very few places a person can camp for free. It’s real hard to find these places any more every body has there hands out wanting to get paid at our expenses just to park and get some sleep and be left alone.
But this isn’t about that at all. This is about people dropping off their RV’s and leaving them there all summer to use as vacation homes so they get a good permanent spot and don’t have to haul in or out.
Quite frankly, that’s a pretty offensive comment. You just grouped dispersed camping and the homeless together. Dispersed camping is NOT homelessness. lol. My RV costs over $100,000 and I’m a full time rver. I am NOT homeless.
I also do not leave my rv all summer somewhere like what this article is about.
First most dispersed camping in the Bighorns isn’t exactly in a “spot”, but spread over a big area.
I think requiring a local tag is a good idea. Each 14 day max stay gets a start date written on the tag and the tag is displayed externally. Also require each RV to have something like a boat registration number clearly displayed on each side in 2″ letters and numbers. So the trailers can be photographed and logged easily by rangers or volunteers. The fine for over 14 days should start at $100 and add $25 per day up until 7 days when it gets impounded. Provide a closer impound lot on Forest Service land within 20 miles (5 miles even better) of the problem spots so volunteers (after being ticketed by a ranger) can tow the blaintent violators without having to go 100 miles back to Cody or wherever. Then add $20/day storage fees and after 90 days they can be auctioned. Have an end of fall auction right at the impound lot, no minimum. Anything not bid on can be crushed.
Plus if the person who’s being a pain has their camper impounded, they should be banned from all FS camping sites for at least 5 years!!!
Yes, and anything that upsets you should be illegal. How dare someone not follow your norms of society. Camping too long in the middle of nowhere, criminal behavior. Get a life.
I think u might want to make a steeper warning sign if u leave it here pay a fine for it and get their cell number, who it belongs to and tags number. Also make them pay or put it on market place and sell it. People will buy them.
I have become a full time year round RVer and I can not afford to pay these high fees imposed by camp grounds and there rules on boon docking on a daily basis..I live in my RV and when I need to go shopping I drive the RV every where to get my supplies and expect to return to that location.
The only thing I require is a free dump station to empty my black water tank twice a month. I am retired and have very little to live on from a side Hussle to earn money.
Other RVers who abandoned their rigs should be removed at their expense but leave the rest of us alone who have no where else to go and depends on a safe haven with out being hassled to move all of the time.
Lawrence, I’m sorry you don’t have anything other than retirement and a side hustle but why is it anyone else’s (state….town….county) job to give you a place to park your RV, the same location, and a free dump station?
Sorry, Lawrence, but you might/probably are taking a spot from someone as poor as you or a family wanting to camp.
They’re National Forests, not homeless encampments. They are for recreation and camping, not full time living.
Simple: institute a new rule saying any camper or RV that is unoccupied for more than 3 days will be towed at the owners expense. Any camper or RV that is suspected of be unoccupied will have some sort of seal stick placed on the door, so that if the seal is still unbroken 3 days later, it’s definitely unoccupied and can be towed.
That is the best idea yet, only thing I would add. For folks like us, we have a Basecamp and go hiking deeper into the forest and may stay there for 4-5 days before coming back to “civilization.” For deep hikers, let them apply for a free permit they can place on the dash.
Be back in a week!;)
That is just what I was going to suggest. We are respectful of the rules, and it is unfair for those of us that are, to be punished. Tow them. You’ll find out who owns the RV’s, when they come to collect them.
I work for the Forest Service. The issue with this is that a lot of these campers have not maintained an accurate chain of registration or ownership so you can’t find the current owners. Another problem is that these campers don’t have a lot of value for recovering towing expenses, and most towing companies either refuse to deal with ones that have gray water or charge a lot more for dealing with them.
Why not put a game camera up and catch them they come visit their RV? The forest service has done that to catch mountain bike riders riding trails that aren’t mtb legal. It would be much easier with a truck with license plates.
I know all of our public land is underfunded and we lack the amount of rangers we should have. However, it we fined the people who over stayed $200 that would fund a lot of rangers!
Post at appropriate places of entry that a plate is required or RV is subject to towing. No plate, tow it to a central area and make it so it can not be removed. As for those with plates after two weeks remove them. It won’t take long for it to come to a halt.
Hey, how about putting the student loan forgiveness into the National Park Service. Way better use of tax dollars. After 14 days, haul them off like you would an illegal parked vehicle. Let the owner pay tow and storage. It will end in a heartbeat.
Weld the entrance door shut.
How about take out twice as much trash as you generated each time you encounter devastating piles of sh…!
In addition to the suggestions listed, when a popular site gets trashed from overuse, it needs to be made inaccessible for a period of rehab. Boulders, or other structural deterrents will at least move people around and deconcentrate the environmental impacts.
Campers have license plate
So you can track who owner is.
I’m guessing a lot of these don’t? Either way tow them away after 14 days at the owners expense. Set a time limit to pay fine if it goes to auction. I dont like 1-3 above as they punish the folks following the rules.
Put a boot on the sqatters tire, after that you can educate or fine the camper.
This is a matter of The Haves and the Have Nots we’re now hearing from some Have Nots which is good the semi homeless who need to squat on public land to survive so once again we the taxpayers will flip their bill so all you ringers this is the reality
This is not a new problem in the Bighorn NF. We visited the area in 2018 and found a camper in most every nice boondock spot. Hundreds of units that obviously had been there for the summer. I asked a campground host, and she shrugged. There is not enough nfs funding for enforcement, so the locals use the NF as their RV storage all summer.
It’s not a homeless problem. It’s an enforcement problem that has been going on for many years. The locals are not homeless, they are entitled by unfunded enforcement.
Really locals? They’re not perfect but I HIGHLY doubt they are locals . We have the same issue in washington they come here clog up every camping spot and act entitled to them and cause wrecks and most of all fires it makes me sick. The real problem is overpopulation Jesus where do all these nasty people come from? Believe me after tourists season its sasquatch country if locals were the problem you’d know it. But saying someone can only camp 14 days period is plain unconstitutional those people pay taxes too. But again please can someone tell me why is every single pretty national forest absolute clogged to the rim with people where do they all come from? What happened to this poor earth there are WAY too many people …feels like we’re in a third world country sometimes
There is no enforcement currently.
Zero.
Sorry Pat.
You need to have teeth to your rules.
I hate it.
But you need to be willing and able to impound and auction campers and RV’s before you announce new rules.
Otherwise, the fines are simply viewed as “rent”.
It is ridiculous that people that have an $80,000 truck with 600 lb ft of torque, can’t remove their camper after the weekend.
It’s a 10% grade you babies.
Have a 14 day pass. Once it’s up, impound it.
In my opinion, the Bighorn Mountains are one of the most beautiful places on earth and deserve more protection than they receive. Dispersed camping should be limited to backpacking tents or hammocks. RV’s and such should be strictly limited to designated developed campgrounds. Possibly an allowance could be made for single overnight stays if nearby campgrounds are full – in other regions this is often done with specifically designated “overflow campground areas” typically located adjacent to developed campgrounds – other than that, anything else should be confiscated. For those who need to park an RV at a trailhead while out in the backcountry for multiple days, permits can be issued. By restricting dispersed RV use outright, it makes enforcing against a few violators much easier.
Lastly, I don’t want to sound political, but Wyoming does need a congressional delegation effective at pulling for and earmarking the needs of the forest service
The Forest Service is federal.
We only have one representative in the House and 2 Senators.
I get what you are saying but a “delegation” is not in the numbers.
I was thinking this would be a great place to re-explore places I visited as a child. I have no problem moving on at the most every 14 ot 15 days. I am a retiree who has never had the opportunity to take my Time exploring great places in our nation. But a 14 day yearly limit is hardly time to explore an entire region. I feel that the majority of people are honest and do as the rules say to do. Step up your enforcement and raise your violator fee if You must, but please don’t limit our yearly stay to just 14 or 15 days.
I think folks are getting the wrong impression of the term “squatters’ in the case of the Bighorns.
There are no homeless people in RV’s in the Bighorn mountains.
These are average folks that live nearby parking their RV’s as “Summer Homes” in the same spot for months.
The Forest Service claims they “can’t determine” how long a vehicle has been parked there.
Really?
That trailer has been unhitched with no towing vehicle nearby for 2 months now.
Everyone knows what they are doing here.
It is a lack of enforcement and a lack of enforcement with teeth that has caused this issue.
Nothing will change.
Next year the same campers will vacantly occupy the same spots all Summer and the Forest Service will write a few tickets but nothing will come of it.
Oh you know the cost of living? The more it goes up the more of this style of living rises.
Hey, let’s make some heavy rules that make it hard for the folks who play fair. Also, make it expensive for those who can’t afford to stay at a fancy RV resort or park. Dumb. Here is a simple yet easy way to help with enforcement without sticking it to people. Require them to register their license plate number on the camper/RV and be given a placard for vehicle or tent. Can be self serve since no money is changing hands. They must provide a current phone number. Now it’s easy to know when they arrived, who they are, and how to contact them. The rules of 14 days, how far they have to move, Warnings of being towed away if they overstay printed on back of placard. No excuses if their camper is not there when they return! Advertise for a volunteer attendant to go check on spots and compare to register. Provide an electric off-road golf cart. He/she gives info to Ranger to handle when violation found. Give them a spot they can boondock in all summer long without moving as a thank you.
I understand the frustration. In the Bighorns I’d see a van parked in the same place each year with toilet paper everywhere around it. North Carolina plates. On the other hand, my friends and I take our four campers into one spot in a different mountain range and leave them there. Granted, there are no established campgrounds up there. We clean up and we’re not dispersed. We also don’t have gray water. One or more of us is up there basically every weekend.
We shouldn’t be surprised by these entitled individuals, they are on the highways everywhere.
I do dispersed camping often. (usually one nite at a time). I keep in close contact with the respective Rangers in my area. If someone sets up camp for the season (14 day limit here) I politely tell them I will be notifying the Forest Service if they exceed the 14 day limit. They always politely move on. Never once have I had to contact the Rangers in 24 years. Most people are pretty responsible and will try to follow rules.
How do you keep track? Are you staying more than the allotted time to enforce it?
Sooner or later, especially these days you’ll politely tell someone that and they’ll never find your body. It’s not your job or responsibility to enforce Park rules, that’s the Rangers jobs. Be smart and stay safe and let them do the job they get paid to do..
Mob Rules in the wild, ehh? Part of our responsibilities as citizens is to stand up for law and order, and be good witnesses. If being a witness requires you to defend yourself, so be it. People have to take back their own responsibility rather than be sheep. The smart play is the long game and what cowering in the shadows in fear ultimately does to society.
If you knew me, you’d know that I’m definitely not sheep. I’m not advocating sheepish behavior either. You’re correct, it is our responsibility to be good witnesses or observers in our quest to stand up for what’s right. That doesn’t necessarily include offering unwanted or unsolicited advice or threats to contact authorities. Sheep or not, sheepdog or not, there’s ALWAYS wolves in the wild who don’t follow societies rules and there are always bigger wolves.
agreed
I know several veterans just wanting somewhere to be away from the hustle and bustle. What about program where vets can sign up to have their own private site labeled with something like Camp Host and a bulletin board near the entrance to the designated areas whether they are actual sites or boondocking areas that explain the rules, a sign up sheet that’s more like a safety precaution than an actual registry. I would love to do something like this just to have a spot somewhere that is somewhere I can be out in nature whether traveling or staying put for a time. I take my home with me wherever the wind takes me. If I can have and share the peace of mind that my stuff and self and is welcome and protected as well? And to have the access to be somewhere steady, at any time of year while keeping forests clean, friendly and healthy without being there to enforce but rather a friendly reminder, helper in case of emergency, a “groundskeeper”. Sign me up!
Unfortunately the problem with your naive idea is someone within rip down the sign and use it for firewood or if it’s made out of metal they would then steal it for scrap change
You mean those citizens of WY would do that. Oh my.
Why not do like they do with broken down vehicles where they color tag the vehicles.
They give the owner adequate time to either repair or have it towed by a company of their choosing. After set days it’s still there it’s towed by a towing company on call usually shared by other towing companies to their lot. The owner must then deal with that towing company to get it back.
Locks on the tongue if used can be cut off, picked or possibly a master keys.
Or just let a potential camper wanting that site to tow the camper to front entrance lot.
As long as the colored tag or numbered shows its parked illegal nobody liable.
Yes number 1. Environmental impact
Omg. Look anywhere. Land forest gone. Cities they running from all that
Number 2. Yes. Rv must be inhabited
Number 3. With all the homeless. All the ghettos. Projects. ECT
PRAISE them. Yes. Communities help them
14 days. Nuts
30 days free. Then prove. It a Home. Try to live life nature. Then. To get permit. Not use the parks system
To abuse them trying to life. Nature
NO
TO LET abuse. Drugs. No
Park rangers. Can do it.
THIS AND ALL LANDS SINCE MAN. MADE MAN AND THE WORLD
I have home. Owne in fl.
I not want land abuse
Omg. Sad
but I camp in Maine 6 months. Friends place.
Silly people. So simple
LIFE ACORDING TO DAVE
The only one of these proposals I could consider supporting is #4. Make the persons who are overstaying 14 days in a particular campsite pay a fine. That will stop it, or most if it.
My husband and I have been camping on the mtn for 40+ years. We don’t want to see more regulations to limit our use but it isn’t right for people to leave their campers there and take up campsites that other forest users need. We are ok after Sept. 1 in consideration of the hunters, but not before.
LMAO your logic is part of the problem. Why should Hunters have special treatment – because YOU are finished camping and don’t have to deal with hunters in YOUR camp spot its ok?
Implement a sticker program immediately. Color code for length of stay. Any RV not having a sticker after a 14 day grace period gets towed to an area designated by the National Park Service. Owners showing up to claim towed RVs pay a fine of course, after proper ownership is proven and should be banned from National Parks for 12 months for squatting. THe Park Service would of course have to keep files on these banned RVs, to include photos of RV types and Vin numbers which won’t be difficult to obtain after towing to the designated area.
Any towed RVs not claimed within say, 60 days, are either sold at auction or for scrap.
There, thats 3 or 4 ways to increase park revenue and be able to enforce some new rules.
Yes, this can work!!!
I agree 100%. These squatters are taking up much of the Sierra National Forest dispersed areas. They Should Be Fined!!
Love this Idea! I would be happy to stop by the Ranger office to obtain a “sticker” for my 14-day stay.I would color code for the month but also write on the sticker the DATE it was purchased so there is no doubt about the 14 days.I would change the “grace” period to10 days.Then IF still there have it towed–the cost of towing would be offset by the FINE to the abusing RVer IF they ever claim their RV–IF they don’t claim it within 60days, auction it off at a public auction just like the police do for their “impounded” stuff! Of course at the auction you would set a minimum price, that would cover storing costs, towing costs, & admin costs to organize & put on this event.
I would add to this a Volunteer HOST that covers several areas of dispersed camping-the job of the Volunteer HOST would check stickers for expiration date, warn campers to move if still there after the date & report to rangers anyone overstaying & any RVs needed to be towed. In return the Host would get to stay longer
Great idea
Easy solution
For those that attack dispersed camping are basically scapegoating all boondockers & boondocking in general. That’s just not right.
I haven’t read anywhere on here where anyone is attacking dispersed camping but rather staying past the 14 day legal limit in one spot.
I boondock in the Big Horns, I know there are a lot of campers stay all summer. The last place we stayed three campers used the forest for their bathroom. They did both never covered either up or even attempted to cover either up, very horrible….this was for two weeks. So much for a pleasant stroll through the forest.
We have noticed and spoke with others that have noticed this is a huge problem. Not just in the Big Horns but Vernal, Utah as well. I believe it’s a problem in several areas. A solution is needed for sure. I already put my 2 cents in.
It is aggravating it was allowed to go this long to become the problem it is now. They close off roads and dont open others, bottle neck people into an area that then gets trashed then closed, goes to controlled dispersed spots, pushes people to paid camping areas which is another beast of problem. New road closure & No Camping signs are up every year shrinking dramatically the areas for the public to enjoy.
If don’t know better it appears they are locking us out of our public lands to use.
The same problem exists on the nations local, State and Federal highways in the form of vehicles left on the roads and streets. In Kansas law enforcement applies a sticker to the vehicle and then there’s a 48 hour window for the owner to move the vehicle. After that time expires local tow trucks are notified or if they observe one of these vehicles they impound it at their facility. The owner is then responsible to pay the tow service in order to reclaim their vehicle.
Why can’t a similar action take place in the national forests?
Campers would have to obtain a 14 day sticker but on day 15 they need to move or face being towed.