If the future holds the demise of petro-fired engines, then RVing will have to change or die. Thereās been plenty written about whether or not electric vehicle technology can really work for RVs. Weāve seen a smattering of smaller e-RVs, but nothing definitive for large motorhomes. But soft drink giant Pepsi is running a fleet of electric-powered semitrucks. Their experience may speak to the future of e-motorhoming. What can we learn from it?
Some decidedly long-haulers
In Sacramento, California, Pepsi and its sidekick division, Frito Lay, have a 21-strong fleet of electric semitrucks. The majority of these rigs are, in the words of a company official, used āmost advantageouslyā as short haulers. These rigs typically spend 12 hours a day on the road, and put on around 100 miles. For the typical RVer, thereās no advantage here, not if you really want to get out and see the country.
But hang on, not all of Pepsiās semis are on such a short leash. Three of the soft drink/chip trucks are decidedly long-haulers, running anywhere from 250 to 450 miles in a given work day. Does that sound a little more compatible with the concept of e-motorhoming? Hereās where these three workhorses go.
Over one of trucking industry’s most infamous passes
If you know the country, imagine heading out of Sacramento and into Nevadaāvia Interstate 80. Once youāve dropped your load, turn around and head back via the same route. I-80 takes you across one of the trucking industryās most infamousāand dangerousāpasses: Donner.
Heading back to Pepsiās home base in Sacramento, your run will take you up the eastern side of Donner Pass, along a 7.5 percent grade. Plenty of RVers say they donāt mind a steep grade, as long as itās short. But the westbound run climbs 1,152 feet from Donner Lake in 2.9 miles. The sharp curves on the pass are legendary. You can only imagine that this truck-eating pass would also consume a huge amount of battery power.
How do Pepsiās e-semis do with Donner? In a video produced by the North American Council for Freight Efficiency, Pepsiās Dejan AntunoviÄ, the companyās electrification program manager, talks about the run. āGoing across Donner Pass and back from [Sacramento] to Nevada, weāre able to, on the trip back, actually zero out, in terms of state of charge improving due to regenerative braking.ā
Thatās the system where kinetic energy from the wheels, when braking, is converted into electric power and pumped back into the rigās batteries. Instead of using a compression brake, regenerative braking helps slow these huge rigs down without heating up their service brakes. Says Pepsiās AntunoviÄ, āIt extends range for us in a way that is invaluable.ā
Something more than regenerative power needed
All well and good, but you still have to get the power into those big rigsā batteries to start with. To that end, Pepsiās Sacramento yard has invested big-time into megachargers. Last December the news hit that Pepsi had hired Tesla to put in a four-stall megacharger. How long does it take to recharge a semi battery bankāestimated at anywhere between 900 and 950 kilowatt hours (kWh)? The claim is a truck depleted to a 5% charge can ramp up to 95% in 20 to 30 minutes.
How does all this translate for e-motorhoming? If Pepsiās example is anything to look at, it seems āpracticalā to think that even the largest of Class A motorhomes could be run as e-vehicles. Since regenerative braking wonāt be a big part of recharging batteries, then a big infusion of suitable charging stations will be needed. Waiting a half-hour for a āfill upā in an e-motorhome would probably be acceptable for many RVers. The question is, how soon will these megachargers be available around the country?
Power on the roadāwhen?
Last year a study by the National Renewable Energy Laboratory suggested 2035 should be the year when heavy-duty semitrucks could be replacing fossil fuel with electric drive. Thatās just 12 years down the road. Is it an optimistic goal? Weāll leave that up to you to chew on.
If e-motorhoming becomes a reality, itāll be interesting to see just how costly it will be. Initially, it seems likely itāll be a rich manās game, while the rest of us continue to smoke our way across the country.
##RVT1125b
At this point in time I do not see an early future for long haul E truckers or Motor home operators.. There are a lot of challenges to firm out before that will be constant. California has some tough laws coming into place soon, so I can see why Pepsi jumped on it. There are a lot of private truck owners who could never afford the money for an EV unit or to take the amount of time for a really long haul across country for instance. Powering up in a country that hasn’t enough electric for home users will be a big set back for many if E Vehicles start taking over the highways. Boy the mining industries will be happy to see all of this. This is Buck Rogers stuff from 70+ years ago.
I don’t care how good they can make an e vehicle. NOBODY is talking about the electric grid and how to make it so we can charge all these vehicles.
Oh and what about cold weather. You cannot use these in cold weather.
Until then the politicians and battery makers are going to make millions on an product the vast majority does not want and cannot use.
a vast majority under 45 want them. They are amazing
A vast majority are in CA where āGreenā energy isnāt abundant and this past summer people were asked not to charge their EVs if they wanted air conditioning. Personally Iāll use gas and have air conditioning, I like it.
I agree Bob P. Ca. has temporary power outages now in some counties when ever the wind get over a certain MPH. How then do the under 45’rs charge their e vehicle’s? Just because an idea seems good, doesn’t mean it’s practical. you have to look at the practicality of implementing it. Ca. can’t provide enough electric power now without having brown outs at certain times…maybe after spending billions to install the charging infrastructure needed to charge all the EV’s plus supply power to the homes and businesses. I doubt it happening in my lifetime.
most of those people in that demographic believe in the magic outlet on the wall…
True the grid needs more development, but you may have missed the initiative to get chargers installed along interstates. Weāve also driven our EV in CO in below zero temperatures. The range was reduced by about a third, but gas engines also get lower mileage at those temps.
Not 30% less.
True, but at 20 degrees no significant drop.
20 degrees is not very cold.
So basically, good for only 8 months a year in 60% of the country and 12 months a year in 40% of the country. Minus 30 and minus 40 are DEADLY cold Temps on the side if the road in a blizzard running battery heat for only 8 hours in a 24 hour blizzard.
I’m all for EVs where the grid can handle them. 100% Pro choice on EVs. The Free Market will handle it in my opinion, it is the forced compliance by dumb politicians that I detest.
We can all own 2 cars now, one for the summer and one for the winter. Seems like an affordable option.
We drive our EV all year round in CO. No issues and under $.03/mile for recharging. Actually about $.01/mile when we factor in our solar.
We live in Colorado and primarily RV in the Rocky Mtn. states. Judging by the frequent use of our diesel exhaust brake when we were towing our fifth wheel, regenerative braking might double our mileage range in an e-RV. Even with the diesel towing the fiver, our average mileage improved from 11-12 mpg on flat roads to 20-21 mpg on 11,000′ passes over the Continental Divide.
Someone is getting their info from the manufacturers trip computer, programmed by the manufacturers employee. Compute your mpg by dividing miles driven by gallons used, I think youāll be amazed.
Pulled by a team of unicorns.
Other reporting indicates that the EV fleet when loaded with chips can go about 450 miles per charge. When loaded with soda gets about 125 miles.
Makes sense to me.
sounds like there needs to be more carbonation in that soda
please stop shoving this EV stuff down our throats. If I buy one it will be when I want to and not when Biden tells me to.
Don’t read it, friz. Sounds simple enough to me. Have a good day. š –Diane at RVtravel.com
What is the cost to charge the batteries? How expensive will it be to replace the batteries and how much will it add to the cost of class A motorhomes. Plus the cost for elect mechanic to work on these rigs. Vehicles have too much electronics that things go wrong with. Plus they’re too complicated to use. I learned that with a F150 hybrid and my wife’s Kia Sportage.
Think of the nay sayers when the automobile was becoming a thing. Our road system wasn’t built, gas stations weren’t on every corner.
It will all take time, a lot of time. I happened to be poking around on the RVIA site. Here’s an article that appeared there:
https://www.rvia.org/news-insights/thor-industries-details-steps-towards-net-zero-greenhouse-gas-emissions-2050-new-carbon-and-climate-report
12 years is very realistic. Can’t wait! Driving a tesla is like a whole new world vs. the old days
Happy to hear you love your Tesla. Personally, I’m pro-choice on EVs and ICE automobiles. As long as the Marxists never force EVs on the population through mandates, higher gas taxes or punishing fees to drive a ICE car v. EV, then I think it’s great. Let the market decide. Currently the big 3 lose over $60,000 per EV. They cost $120,000.00 to build and they sell them for $60,000.00. It’s tough on the Union, tough on the company, tough on the natural market forces from top to bottom.
If you are going to make statements like this as fact, you need to provide references for your sources so others can fact check your claims. Otherwise, your comments are merely rants with no facts. And yes, we will check your sources for reliability and intellectual honesty.
Oh Karen, you like me! You really really like me! ā¤ļø
Thestreet.com.
60k loss per EV Ford built.
May 2, 2023
Check away big guy. Prove me wrong, I’ll wait. 1 hour down and nothing smart to add yet, hmmmm. I’ll continue checking back in every hour or so to see how your fact checking is going.
I think I hear crickets….Cancelproof, how dare you present facts. This goes against the gut reactions of the enviro nazis
At the risk of getting a kick in the shin from big sister….. yup, crickets. Drive by commenters with no facts to present with no desire to learn. Closed eyes, plugged ears and open mouths. Opinions without any foundation in truth and facts with the goal and desire to cancel others thoughtful and factual points, due to having overactive emotional response syndrome.
I started counting over, after that particular thread (volley?) between you and JP was on hiatus for a couple of days. (Thank you.š) But, yes, B.S. is watching.š¤£ Have a good evening/night, Cancel. š –Diane aka Big Sister
I had no hard feelings on my end. I just figured if someone was calling me ranting liar, they may want to send some facts to back the assertion.
Be well Big Sis. šāļø
It’s all good, Cancel.š¤ –B.S. (I’m glad I gave myself that nickname or I might be upset.š )
šš
2nd hour check in Phil.
Knock knock, you there? Nothin huh?
University of Chicago
Uchicago.edu
May 3, 2023
Fortune.com. 4.5 billion losses EV division Ford.
7/28/2023
Autoevolution.com
5/3/23
Ford posts 102% losses on each EV produced.
In the future, if you dispute someone’s comment, do your research first. For a millennia, it is accepted practice for the 2nd party to the conversation, to bring the countering facts and arguments. It is incumbent upon the disputing party to offer the countering evidence, not simply yell out “oh yeah, prove it or your a liar”.
Thanks for playing.
7th hour Phil, still nothing huh?
Time to drop it, Cancel? Have a good evening/night. š –B.S. aka Big Sisterš
Hahaha. š¤£š Wonderful evening!
šāļø
In the meantime letās destroy the economy by continuing to refuse to be energy independent and continue to pillage the earth for metals from our adversaries. I donāt doubt it, or something even better may happen, but to put it in a 10 or 15 year window may be a bit of a stretch financially for the middle American who can barely keep up now. After all, it is us who are financing the governments dreams.
Where is all this mythical electricity coming from? Only 12% of the US grid is renewable energy. 30+% is from coal most of the rest is from fossil fuels.
If an RV’s gross weight and basement storage space are reduced significantly due to batteries and solar charging systems then we have a net loss in overall efficiency of the RV. The trucking industry is looking very cautiously at converting to electric power as the overall weight that can be hauled is going to be reduced by 20% to 25% which means more trucks on the roads and an overall increase in shipping costs.
Was the question asked, what is the cost of the e-tractor as opposed to the cost of a diesel? It would be nice if you could charge your e-tractor in around 30 minutes. But remember all the diesel tractors and trailers at the fuel station waiting to be refueled? How long would you have to wait to get your e-tractor recharged if the mega chargers are full of commercial e-tractors? Where is the infrastructure to support this?
There is none! Therein lays the problem with EV;s. It’s working now because there is only a small percentage of EV users. Multiply that by millions of EV users and there is no way the current infrastructure can supply the necessary power.
Are we missing something here? The modern electric automotive industry primarily got its start as a hybrid – electric traction, smaller battery capacity and a gasoline powered generator / traction assist. I’m not knowledgeable enough to have a firm opinion, but would think this is the intermediary step needed for both motorhomes and tow vehicles. Plug-in where you can as the infrastructure evolves, burn some kind of fuel to run an on-board charging system when you can’t.
Those Pepsi trucks and drivers are not long haul trucks. They are LTL(less than truckload). Put one of those trucks on a trailer full of produce headed from CA to New York City where the driver is going to drive 11 hours, take a 10 hour break and drive another 11 hours etc., etc. and see how long itās going to hold up. Or another scenario a team truck where two drivers drive the truck 24 hours a day until they reach their destination. Howās that going to work? I drive a hybrid Toyota and the regenerative braking doesnāt recharge the battery to a full charge on a 6 mile downhill grade.
The article doesn’t answer any questions, just another attempt to “push” the idea of EV motorhomes on us. Sure, for short-haul last-mile deliveries, EV trucks make sense. But, to put them out on the highways forget it. What happens when one of these rigs gets stuck in typical California traffic snarls, sitting for how long with the A/C and other electrical drains yanking on the battery supply?
And, for RV use, first off who in the world could afford one? Second, if someone was in a position to buy an EV-RV would they fork out the bucks to travel 100 miles down the road before a charge is needed? I don’t think so.
I would call this experimental. It may work in some applications, but probably not practical for long haul. For long haul, Cummins are building Hydrogen powered engines. Could this be the future for the large motorhome platform? https://www.cummins.com/news/2023/06/06/hydrogen-engines-and-long-haul-trucking#:~:text=Cummins%20Inc.%20has%20announced%20the,IAA%20Transportation%20exhibition%20in%202022.
Hydrogen may be great .. it only replaced the battery though..still an electric vehicle but a little more complicated.
I watched the video about Pepsi. Their “long haul” is out and back on the same day. Then another video came up showing how Schneider is also on board with this E stuff, though Schnieder isn’t doing long haul in southern CA. But both of these outfits spent untold amounts of money to install charging ability at their terminals. And the local power companies had to step up their ability to supply these two companies with enough power to charge their fleets. However, no mention of upgrading the grid for everyday folks who just want air conditioning for their homes.
Cue the naysayers and curmudgeons. Hitch up the horses and buggies.
I’ve read every post and not a single one appears to have written without thoughtful contribution, until yours. Both pros and cons from both sides of the EV equation. The horse and buggy crowd didn’t build the buggies for $120,000 and then sell them $60,000. That’s something more in line with a Gen Z business model. That “crowd” didn’t have 20 horses if they only had feed (fuel) for 2. Speaking of horse before the cart, where is all that magical electricity coming from?
I live and travel full time in our RV mainly west of the Mississippi. Those of us out here know where the electricity originates. Hydro electric from dams, wind turbines, many different sources of solar as well as fossil fuel which is quickly becoming the less prevalent source.
My point Bill, is that out west, California being quite aways West, of the mighty Mississippi, is have rolling blackouts all summer long and Gavin alerts to not charge your EV between 5:00pm and 9:00pm to prevent overloading the system. The power is not in the grid for EVs yet. It is not even in the grid for running A/C units during hot periods. We know where the power comes from currently, it is the required additional power that will be needed to charge EVs I’m worried about. Add in swapping gas stoves and water heaters for electric and more magical power will be needed. Cart before the horse.
Cancelproof, I agree. EV or ICE is fine with me, but we need to ramp up the power system before we overload it more. My fear is that when the power goes down at the Pepsi Plant there will only be Coke on the grocery store shelves.
LOL. GREAT POINT!!! šš¤£
I live in California. I haven’t heard anything about any rolling blackouts this summer, let alone all summer.
Strange, I don’t live there but I do spend 2 months in southern California each summer and got notification 3 or 4 times this summer and a couple of times last summer to not use major appliances or charge EVs between 5 pm and 9 pm to avoid rolling blackouts. I didn’t see a blackout this summer while I was there so maybe Gavin’s notification worked, or possibly climate change wasn’t very bad this year. Either way, modifying behaviors to accomodate failed leadership is… well… whatever.
Well said.
Yeah, right. Any coverage of an EV motorhome, any article presenting innovation happening in the US to bring large EVs to market, and its the same cast of character here, tearing it down and parroting the the lines of big-oil and the fossil fuel industry, climate change and voices of the younger generation who have to live with our carbon excesses be damned.
I came up in a generation when lunar landings weren’t too big a stretch, cleaning up the environment via the clean-water act, the EPA and mandating clean vehicles wasn’t too hard or too expensive for the richest nation on earth, both under Democratic and Republican administrations. Gee, Henry Ford had the cart before the horse too!
JP, I appreciate your follow-up. I have not read a single post that says “never to EVs”. No one has said that they will “never work”. People with pragmatic differences of opinion to your own, including myself, may actually agree with you on more things than they disagree with you on. A free market approach is what I read as being the preferred approach to any new technology. When it’s ready for prime time, it’s ready.
Cont. Pt 2 reply
Cont. Pt2
Teddy Roosevelt didn’t artificially inflate oat prices to get people into cars and Franklin didn’t force people to buy TVs by raising radio prices artificially.
Some that disagree with you think Hydrogen will win the day versus EV trucks. They are not horse and buggy curmudgeons, they are thoughtful pragmatic thinkers.
Perhaps some think nuclear cars are the future. Little reactors the size of 9v batteries, built with nanotechnology. You disparage people with different approaches trying to solve a similar problem. We’re not Neanderthals.
CP, What bugs me is every time RV Travel posts an article on development of large EV vehicles, RV or not, there is always a course of “don’t force it on me”, the false notion that somehow all current gasoline and diesel vehicles will be banned, and the implication that the government has decided the EVs are the only solution and it won’t be long before they start seizing existing vehicles and forcing people to buy EVs. I may be wrong, but it seems to some the very idea of innovating and bringing to market these vehicles is a mortal sin destined to destroy life as we know it. In fact, innovation and problem solving is what Americans have always done best…cont
“ there is always a course of ādonāt force it on meā, the false notion that somehow all current gasoline and diesel vehicles will be banned, and the implication that the government has decided the EVs are the only solution and it wonāt be long before they start seizing existing vehicles and forcing people to buy EVs. ”
Try to buy a 100-watt filament style light bulb.
Some of us used those for keeping our wellhouses just warm enough to prevent pipes from freezing. Now we have to run some other form of heating.
but not without a bit of carrot and stick (vehicle emissions laws) and investment (space travel, NSF, military R&D, etc). Since a certain economist managed to convince the majority of CEOs in this country that shareholder value is their only concern, that stick is a little more important.
The reality is,with enough push and national will, there will be many different ways to move us away from fossil fuels and plenty of money to be made in the process. Some will work, some won’t, and the market will ultimately dictate the best and/or most cost effective solutions. In the meantime, I want to continue reading about that progress here without all the negativity and government bashing
I think we agree, for the most part. However, ICE bans are already going into effect in California though forced compliance and over the next 10 years, ICE vehicles in California, which has no electrical capacity above it’s existing needs, will be phased out. The Free Market does not include a Gov’t timeline checklist. I’m all for innovation, privately funded innovation. Battle of the ideas, free market capitalism.
Cheers JP.
Have a good evening.
California is part of the National electrical grid. The national grid has plenty of power. Texas is NOT part of the National grid. This is why last year during record cold weather Texas was so paralyzed in dealing with the blackouts. The only problem with California is just like many other states, that the rate of growth has lead the rate of infrastructure upgrades required for the heaviest load times during global warming induced heat waves. Seriously, shifting the electric car charging to after peak hours is a very minor thing to ask people to do, and does not represent a serious flaw in the infrastructure or the availability of power in California.
Now that 500,000 people have fled the once great Golden State, including a congressional seat, you should have a surplus of power to charge your EVs and save the planet all at the same time. Hooray for California. 3 cheers for California that continues to lead the way to better, safer, crime free and affordable existence for all. Small miracles bring big rewards. Hip Hip hooray.
“Texas is NOT part of the National grid. This is why last year during record cold weather Texas was so paralyzed in dealing with the blackouts.”
Let’s go even deeper as to why and how that happened. I work in the electric generating industry. Texas has been closing down the very large coal (lignite) plants that were used for base loading. That power was ‘replaced” by very highly subsidized wind and solar power. We were on alert from about three days before the incident, as the weather forecast was setting up for a known issue to occur. When the weather gets very cold, along with precipitation, the wind power grinds to a halt.
The wind generators built in Texas do not have ant-icing capability, and of course solar never was able to make enough of a dent. When you replace reliable baseline power with green power, you have to expect periods where there will not be enough power. Sad, but true. Texas has the highest percentage of renewable power in the mix. This is an experiment for the rest of the grid.
Let me say that I enjoyed the article very much and was encouraged by the progress in “heavy-duty” EV technology.
That said, none of us has a right to “want” others posts to not be in disagreement with what any of us would prefer to read. If people want to continue to read the articles without reading responses they don’t like the solution in a free-speech society is simple….read the article and skip the comments. If you read comments expect differing, and even 180 degree differing, viewpoints!
Joseph;
I was going to comment on this thread until I read your post. I could not agree more with the content and tone of your comment. Some folks will never see the trees but for the forest in their field of view. Lol
And some believe in the tooth fairy.
Jay Leno just put out a video on his Garage show, he drives a new Tesla semi. The Tesla guy with him was very well spoken with normal speech, not using ācorporate-speakāand answered a lot of my questions. Itās worth a watch. It made me re-think my stance.
In the Tesla truck the driver sits in the middle, Jay had a little trouble keeping it centered in the lane.
Oh BTW, our RV is only a couple years old so no āEā RV in our future. Or our budget.
I’m encouraged by this. I know there are many things that have to be refined and created but these are the first big steps. Congrats to Frito Lay, Tesla and all the rest for being trail blazers here.
I’ve seen a few of these in the last few weeks driving up and down both sides of the Sierras, and I think the rigs themselves are pretty cool looking. As to all of the infrastructure needed for them and RVs, I’ll leave that discussion up to those with way more intelligence and information than I have…..
So what was the GVW of the tractor? How much weight the trailer carrying?
Geez, I don’t know, but somehow that information not being available tends to make any road test nothing more than propaganda. I’m not against EVs in any way. But the lack of transparency or actual independent testing so far with the Tesla trucks is quite curious.
Good point Mike. Pepsi versus potatoes chips. Not even an apples and oranges comparison.
Corn chips in a trailer with Pepsi decals? LOL.
I would also like to see the numbers on a full load of Pepsi cans, not air-filled potato chip bags.
Also, it takes 20mw of available power at this one location to charge 20 trucks.
This seems to me to be a much better way to go!
https://www.trucknews.com/sustainability/hydrogen-powered-daimler-truck-passes-1000-km-on-single-fill/1003178400/#:~:text=Daimler%20Truck%20has%20completed%20a%201%2C047-km%20run%20in,technology%20as%20a%20zero-emissions%20alternative%20for%20longhaul%20trucking.
Thank you! Very interesting and surprising.
Who thinks the campgrounds are going to install megachargers? At what cost to us campers? It’s already 60 to 100 dollars a night now.
We stayed in one park that had a big NO ELECTRIC CHARGING sign at check in AND there was a pretty substantial fine if caught charging.
Ya gotta run all the numbers. Eighteen wheelers are limited to highway weight standards. Thatās why you see all those weigh stations. Overweight? Pay a fine. That said, the weight of the batteries required to run those e-rigs are going to necessarily offset the weight of the PAY-load. Yesā¦thatās right! The cargo those rigs carry cost money to ship. Reduce the payload, you reduce income. Simple math, folks. A load of chipsā¦fine. A load of Pepsi cans? Gotta go with fewer to stay underweight. And if the states allow exceptions for e-trucks thatās kind of defeating the whole purpose of weight limitations which will mean more road repair usingā¦guess whatā¦our taxes. Weāll see.
Silly question but . . . wouldn’t the weight of the batteries be off set by the lack of weight from the fuel?
Just to add insult to injuryā¦ Remember back during the Obama era, Cash for Clunkersā¦ turn your car in and receive a payoff. Then they would pour a concoction into the oil, motor running until it seizes. Junked!!!
…literally wiping billions of dollars worth of serviceable vehicles and used parts off the nation’s balance sheet. Brilliant way to both waste vast amounts of money and screw the less-affluent in a single stroke.
Wellā¦.
I canāt predict the future but I can tell you for certain that today, we are at a campground in Niagara Falls, itās just a little above freezing and the power has been out at the park for six hours nowā¦. I sure am grateful for the diesel generator and the propane furnace.
(Well, couldn’t add this by editing my earlier comment, so I’ll add it here.) I wonder if all this will advance fast enough for us to have a third RV (bought #2 last summer)? Given our ages (66 and 57), I’m doubtful because we bought #2 with the idea that it is our last one. I guess we’ll wait and see.
So as we complain about the dearth of available campspots at crowded campgounds, how many thousands of acres are we going to pave over for all of these charging stations where everyone will have to stop to charge at in-between?
And over 900 kWh per rig, where will all that electricity be coming from? (Hint: It won’t be solar panels)
Oh, and forget about boondocking. There’s no way you can carry enough solar panels with you for that kind of recharge in any meaningful amount of time.