Dear Dave,
My question has nothing to do with what I have now, but what I’m looking to buy. I am looking at 33- to 35-foot diesel pushers. One salesman told me that the shorter diesel pushers fishtail too much, and you shouldn’t buy one under 37 feet. Is this true? I really want one that is closer to 33-35 feet, as I’ll be able to find more camping spots for that size, plus I plan on towing a car. —Teresa, Heartland Sundance 262RB
Dear Teresa,
Wow! I hope you were wearing an old pair of shoes or, better yet, 4-buckle overshoes as you don’t want to get that kind of “crap” on your good shoes! Let me guess: The salesman that “slung” this did not have any shorter units available? I get a lot of these questions at my seminars as they are just trying to sell what is at the show immediately. They will claim something is not available or won’t work, and I must be careful not to be too hard on them. Just like anything being sold, there are some really good professional salespeople—and then there are those that are “just pushing tin.”
What do they mean by “fishtailing”?
The term “fishtailing” as it pertains to RVs is when the back sways side to side. It mostly refers to trailers with poor weight distribution. The only other type of swaying I have encountered with a motorhome is the old P30 Chevrolet chassis that had a very low weight rating, independent coil spring front suspension, and poor leaf springs for the rear end. These units were like elephants on roller skates and felt like they would tip over at every turn. However, with the introduction of the Workhorse chassis came wider frame rails, I-beam front suspension, and a much better ride. The Ford F53 gas chassis is very similar.
Could the salesman be referring to the back end of the motorhome having a much wider swing or bottoming out going out of fuel stations? This has nothing to do with a diesel chassis or the length of the unit. It has to do with wheelbase length, and diesel units come in a variety of different lengths to adjust for this. It’s a decision the RV manufacturer has to make. A longer wheelbase distributes the weight better and has less overhang to bottom out or swing the back end wide. However, it does mean the unit cuts the corners tighter on the right side. I have never experienced any diesel pusher “fishtailing.” In fact, I’ve seen just the opposite, as the heavier frame rails, wider stance, beefier tires, and air suspension provide the best ride, in my opinion.
33- to 35-foot diesel vs. 37-foot or longer
What you will find is there are fewer 33- to 35-foot units available from manufacturers as the price of the diesel chassis is usually not beneficial at that smaller length. The Ford F53 has enough power to handle 6 percent grades even while towing a “toad” behind it. It is harder to sell a unit that could cost $50,000 or more on a diesel chassis when buyers don’t see the benefits.
A classic example is the Itasca Horizon offered by Winnebago. It was introduced in 2000 offering a 34′ and 36′ floorplan. After a few years, the 34’ was dropped as there was no market. Eventually it was only offered in 40’ models the final year. Same with the Winnebago Journey, which had one 34’ and two 36’ floorplans in 2000, and dropped the 34’ after a couple years. However, I do see they brought the 34’ model back in 2013!
Tiffin and Newmar have had several models in the 34′ to 35’ range. However, they were built on a standard Freightliner chassis rather than their customized chassis built in-house.
What I tell people who attend my RV Buyers Seminar is to go test drive several models. If you are looking to stay below 35’, don’t need to take 5,000 lbs. of cargo and tow a tank, the gas chassis will perform very well. You will most likely pay more for the diesel than you will ever use. But don’t take my word for it. Go test drive or even rent some through RVshare, Outdoorsy, and the other AirRVnV (as I call them) programs. I found three 36’ models in my Northern Iowa location on RVshare.
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RV extended warranties: What should I know for my new-to-me diesel pusher?
Hi Dave,
I am buying this coach with 36,000 miles on it. I want to purchase a warranty product that will cover all of the important things on the coach for a period of 5 years. I’ve been looking at lots of companies online. I am trying to determine who I should talk to about such coverage. I am new to coaching, so I do not know what companies I should speak to. Any advice would be appreciated. —Brooke, 2009 42-ft. Fleetwood Revolution, ISL Cummins 400HP
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Dave, You are completely wrong in this article! Short diesel pushers are well known for having highway handling problems. Take the Tiffin Breeze for example. The original 28’ floor plan was so bad that Tiffin eventually dropped it after spending several years trying to fix the handling, including adding steel weights in front to improve the weight distribution. We owned a Breeze and it was a wrestling match the entire time to try and keep it on the highway.
Completely agree. Someone out there may have a shorter, under 36′, DP that actually drives well. We sold our Breeze and bought a Super C. What a difference a chassis makes.
The Newmar New Aire is a great diesel pusher at about 36’. We have a 2020 and it has a great ride, and a very good turning radius on the Freightliner chassis.
Newmar also has the Comfort Drive electronic steering system which helps the driver considerably. I have a Newmar MA and it would be hard to go back to a coach without this feature.
I had a 34′ Diesel Pusher and I have to agree with the Salesman. That was the most ill handling rig I have ever owned in my 45 years of RVing. I even took it to Henderson’s Lineup in Oregon to address these issues. Thousand of dollars later, there was a minor improvement.
The guys at Henderson and Monaco both advised me that it was the nature of the beast. The ratio of rear overhang to the wheelbase was allowing the rear of the motorhome to “steer” the front in even the slightest cross wind. Both Henderson and an engineer from Monaco told me that 38′ seems to be the sweet spot for diesel pusher coaches without a tag axle.
Bruce…exactly…and it’s gotten worse with so much “stuff” needing to be packed behind the rear axle. There is a LOT of weight in back and overhang.
The salesman here was not telling bold faced lies. Dave missed the boat…in fact the lake…on this one.
We owned a 31′ Tiffin Breeze (2017), Tiffin Powerglide chassis. Worst thing to try to keep on the road, we ever owned. It was sold within 2 years. Had the front end aligned 3X while we owned it and many upgrades. Anti-sway bar and Koni shocks. All made slight improvements, but none ever made it a worry free drive. Always chasing staying in lane.
I have to think of the joke about salespersons and politicians, How can you tell if they’re lying? Their lips are moving! As they say here in the south, they’d rather climb a 50’ power pole and tell a lie, as stand flat footed on the ground and speak the truth. Lol
I have a 1995 Gulf Stream 34 foot on the Spartan Ec-2000 Chassis and I think it handles just fine. We don’t travel a lot having only put about 45,000 miles on the coach since we bought it in 2009, but we have been all over the country east of the Mississippi, from Florida to Maine and even west into Arkansas and Missouri, Kansas & Nebraska. We mostly stick to our Home State of Michigan now only putting about 1000 miles a year now, but I would not want anything bigger or newer. My old Cummins 12 Valve and Allison have been extremely reliable and I don’t have and D slides on my coach. I do believe we will have to get rid of it in 10-12 years as I age out of the driving pool.
Our first RV was a 43′ DP with a tag axle. After 48,000 miles and 6 years we traded for a 36′ DP with only two axles. In comparison to the first, the second has seemed loose, squirrely when I drive it. In fact, #2 is a bit less stable-feeling going down the road, but mostly the difference is entirely in my perception. Perhaps this is the sort of thing the salesman meant when he incorrectly described short DPs fishtailing? Nah, I don’t think so either, but I was trying to be charitable. 😉 Thank you, Dave! 🙂
Well…a lot of comments appear to be about short DPs built before all of the emissions equipment was required that takes up length at the back of the coach, forcing builders to move the drive axle forward. This has resulted in some short DPs having wheelbases under 50% of the total length of the coach. More rear end overhang is worse in side winds or as semis fly by causing the need for constant steering corrections. Having the steers 10′ or more behind the front exacerbates the issue. Imagine if all your wheels were center coach!
Longer wheelbases provide more stability and better ride characteristics. Why do you think so many cars have wheels as much to the corners as possible?
“Tiffin and Newmar have had several models in the 34′ to 35’ range. However, they were built on a standard Freightliner chassis rather than their customized chassis built in-house.”
Dave…when did Newmar build it’s own chassis? As far as I know they have always used either Spartan or Freightliner on diesels. I know Tiffin built it’s own for a time, but to my knowledge, Newmar never did.
If you’re talking about the Tiffin Breeze, it’s not on a “standard” chassis. I don’t know post 2021, but prior to that they were on the Tiffin Powerglide chassis. And in reality, no DP is built on a “standard”, assuming that means commercial chassis, Freightliner. The Freightliner based DP chassis are manufactured by the Freightliner Custom Chassis Corp. https://www.fcccrv.com/
I had a 2003 Fleetwood Bounder Diesel 34M (34′ 8″) for 7 years and 50,000 miles. Never felt unstable or anything like that.
The longer the tail, the more prone to instability when towing. We have a 27′ C Class with a hefty rear overhang. When pulling a 2 wheel trailer it’s OK, but pulling our Jeep look out! It actually put us in the ditch already. The rearward amplification caused by the long tail when pulling the toad, sharply increases the “crack of the whip” effect.