Dear Dave,
My GFCI outlet behind the TV that powers five outlets, including the residential fridge, won’t reset. I do not have AC voltage coming to the GFCI. I checked all the circuit breakers and all are good with 120 VAC at the circuit breaker panel. Those outlets lost power all of a sudden. I’m trying to find a wiring schematic for this trailer. I’m not sure what to do next. Please help. Any advice would be great. Thank you. —Ron, 2022 Montana 3231CK, 400i SolarFlex
Dear Ron,
First, let me state that I am not an electrical expert and always refer electrical questions to those that are. I am a handyman and have stated often: “I can troubleshoot an electrical problem far enough to get you shocked. My good friend Steve, the RVIA Master Certified Technician, can fix it. Who would you like to talk to?” However, since he is in Texas for the winter and not answering his phone, I can provide a little overview of the system in the meantime.
Most inexpensive model GFCI in RVs
Typically, the Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter (GFCI) outlet used in RVs is the most inexpensive model available. That is due to the fact that they look at the numbers, five outlets in every unit, times 10,000 RVs. The cheap outlet is $4 less per outlet, which means $20 times 10,000—and someone gets a big bonus for the cost savings! Go to any home improvement store and you will find the price of GFCI outlets starting at $9 and going all the way up to and over $30.
The RV Industry Association (RVIA) code requires a GFCI outlet within a certain distance from a potential water source such as a kitchen or bathroom, and the exterior.
A GFCI outlet has an internal circuit breaker designed to trip or create an open circuit designed to reduce the potential of an electrical shock or damage to the vehicle. They typically have a test and reset button on the outlet. However, RV manufacturers commonly use just one outlet with the test and reset button. Then they gang or wire the others with a common flat plate outlet which we called “dummy outlets.”
This is the typical GFCI outlet with the test and reset button.
This is a “dummy outlet,” which does not have the test and reset button, but rather a sticker indicating it is wired to the main GFCI.
Function of the GFCI and GFI
According to Steve (I asked him this last year before he disappeared to Texas), GFCI and GFI are commonly used to describe the same function—which is to protect an outlet from a ground fault. Without the test and reset button, this outlet is even cheaper—so the math and the bonus get better! The problem with these outlets is the GFI sticker commonly falls off and most owners don’t know it is wired to the main outlet. If that outlet trips inside, all the outlets wired or ganged to it do not work.
I have heard many stories of owners calling a mobile service technician or bringing the unit into a service center because something did not work, only to find the one GFCI outlet had tripped and all the others did not work They reset the button and charged $150 or more!
Why are your outlets not working
You indicated the GFCI outlet behind the TV powers the other five outlets, including the residential refrigerator. This is odd, as typically the TV and residential refrigerator are not on a GFCI gang. That is because the spike from the refrigerator compressor starting could trip the cheaper GFCI outlets.
However, as I always say, never say never and never say always when it comes to RV manufacturers and design! Most residential refrigerator outlets are connected to a standard 120-volt outlet that is wired through an inverter to provide 120-volt power by the house batteries while running down the road.
You did indicate the reset button would not reset, so I’ll assume there is a GFCI there. However, I would still check to see if it is powered through the inverter. Check that for 12-volt power coming to the inverter and 120-volt power coming out. Most inverters have a pass-through feature. That means if there is 120-volt power from the shoreline cord, the 120-volt power passes through the inverter rather than draw 12-volt power. So, the first thing I would do is plug the unit in to see if this is working in your situation.
Could be a faulty GFCI outlet
It could also be a faulty GFCI outlet. Every February we have the Winter Dance Party Celebration here in Clear Lake, Iowa, celebrating the music of the ’50s and ’60, and Buddy Holly, the Big Bopper, and Ritchie Valens at the Surf Ballroom. The Surf does not have any “green rooms” for the performers, so they bring in motorhomes. Since it is usually -20 degrees, space heaters are plugged in to provide additional heat and keep the water system from freezing. And every year I get a call because something is not working, especially outlets.
What happens is the space heaters overload the circuits and after the cheap GFCI trips a few times, it goes bad and does not work. Sometimes one of the dummy outlets goes bad and creates an open circuit back to the main one. I don’t know how that happens, but Steve told me to replace it and, sure enough, the reset button resets, and the outlets work.
Main outlet might need to be replaced
Sometimes it is the main outlet that goes bad and that has to be replaced. The cheaper GFCI outlets cannot handle multiple outlets ganged to it and multiple resets. The key is to get a non-contact voltage tester and GFCI tester and start tracing wires. Here is a good set from Amazon.
You can use the GFCI tester to verify wiring at the outlet and the non-contact voltage tester to verify power to the outlet by placing it on the wire coming in. If there is power, it is the outlet. If not, trace the wire back and you should be able to find the open circuit. My non-electrical technician’s guess is it is the inverter.
You might also enjoy this from Dave
Two of our RV’s outlets are not working. How can we fix them?
Dear Dave,
We had an electrical problem with our Alpine 3250RL 5th wheel. My husband, John, found most of the problem and fixed it, except for the outside receptacle and the kitchen island receptacle. Those two outlets still don’t work. —Linda
Dave Solberg is a leading expert in the RV industry and the author of the “RV Handbook.”
Read more from Dave here.
HAVE A QUESTION FOR DAVE?
Send your inquiries to him using the form below.
##RVDT2285
When you replace the cheap GFI, spend the big bucks and get a waterproof one. A lightning strike killed everything in our RV (totaled it). First indication was a failed GFI. It went downhill from there.
If you are not” qualified” enough; a quality judgement; that $150.00 cost might be “cheap” compared to what can happen when someone “not qualified” sticks their nose and hands in an electrical issue. From a Plumber- My customers tell me “It’s only plumbing”. Well “It’s only electrical”. Ask Steve what he thinks about that!
A GFCI won’t reset if it doesn’t have power. What else isn’t working? It’s possibly 50a shore power and they lost one leg of incoming power.
You are absolutely correct Tim. In the original question the person stated “I do not have AC voltage coming to the GFCI“ Without AC power the GFCI will never reset. That’s simply how they work. I thank Mike Sokol for teaching me this.
This came to my email from Rick
A gfci is supposed to trip only on a fault to ground. A short, black to white is not a ground fault.
You say there is no power to the outlet. Then you must look for the source and because it controls the refrigerator it is most likely the inverter so that is the place to start. Are you a comedian? Asking for a wiring diagram FUNNY. Even the designer doesn’t know how it’s built( or won’t tell you)
Unless the gfci outlet is outside, don’t spend the money on a WR ( weather resistant) outlet they are not weather PROOF
Thank you, Dave! So much to know, so much unknown! Happy new year! 🙂
Just curious. Is he powering up from a generator ? I had an issue with a portable generator and our kitchen gfci. Would not reset. I also thought mine was a bad gfci. It was not the problem however. My solution was a neutral ground bonding plug. I plugged into the 110 outlet on the generator connecting the ground and neutral to function properly.
Very few have more than one or two GFCI receptacles. My TT has one in the bathroom that is daisy chained to one near the kitchen sink and one on the outside. NEC requires GFCI protection within 6 feet of a water source. Outside receptacles must be GCFI or protected by one.