By Ron Burge
RV manufacturers are constantly seeking ways to boost their profits. For some, this involves sourcing the most affordable products for their builds, which makes sense. But now there’s a growing trend to buy parts and components made in China. Why? Because it’s a lot, a lot, cheaper than buying parts made in the USA. So what’s wrong with that?
Why Chinese RV parts?
First, it means fewer jobs here. Also, historically, any electronic device made with cheap parts and cheap labor is not very likely to be made as well as one of higher quality made in the USA.
What does that mean to you? To the RV owner that means it just won’t last. Worse yet, it can mean a higher risk of failure, which can lead to a converter-caused fire in your RV. As Clint Eastwood said once, “Do you feel lucky?”
Take Thor, for example. From April through July, Thor had sales of $2.21 Billion, with a B. Net income for those four months (profit) was $7.2 million, but that’s not the whole story because they actually wrote off a $14.7 Million “charge” before getting to that net profit number (think accounting games). And gross profit for the company went up 12.3%. All of this is according to Thor’s press release.
RV parts made in China
Now, let’s take a look at just one product used in a lot of RVs they build, the converter. A converter takes AC (alternating current) power and “converts” it to DC (direct current) power, so your RV can use it. Mostly it is used to charge your RV batteries, but it also powers other DC electrical devices in your RV.
The appliances in your RV are typically the same type of household appliances you have in your home, and the electrical power in your home is AC. So when you plug your RV shore line into the outlet at a campsite or your home, the other end of the cord in your RV is at the converter.
Some RVs may have an inverter instead of, or in addition to, a converter. Those start with DC power and switch it to AC, so you can power your appliances when your shore line is not plugged in somewhere.
Converters built in China
Not so long ago, a huge number of these were built in the USA (some companies still build them here, like Magnum and Xantrex), that cost hundreds to thousands of dollars. But lately, companies in China are aggressively getting into the international converter market, and at a cheaper price than anywhere else, for instance, $79. Does anyone really think they could possibly have the same quality of construction and reliability for $79?
Now, add Elkhart to that picture, where the goal is to maximize the profit and minimize the cost of every RV. Some RV companies quietly started switching over to Chinese converters and more are likely to follow them. Thor started using Chinese inverters in some of its RVs at least as far back as some of its 2020 model years, like the 2020 Thor Challenger. Now, some are catching fire.
So, why switch to Chinese converters instead of switching to some other parts? Money. Plain and simple, the more they reduce the cost of expensive parts, the more they increase profits. And that translates to more profit faster. Replacing small stuff simply won’t give them the fast profit increase per RV being built. But going after spending less on the more expensive parts of an RV, they pump up company profits fast.
What does this mean for RV owners?
But back to RV owners. What does having RV parts made in China mean to you? An RV made cheaper, that you are still paying big bucks for. After all, you haven’t seen RV prices going down lately, have you?
But it also means increasing the safety risk in the RV itself. And that means Elkhart is caring less about your safety than it should be. All in pursuit of big company profits.
So how do you fix this situation? You can start by asking your RV dealer before you buy your next RV. He probably will say he doesn’t know. But just asking the question might start him thinking and lead to him asking Elkhart. The reality is that the manufacturers know the truth, and just aren’t telling us.
Maybe this is a good time to call or write your favorite RV manufacturer and ask them how many of their RV parts are made in China and what parts they are. If it’s just nuts and bolts, not a big deal. After all, it’s pretty hard to make those wrong. But if it’s a complex electric gadget that might catch fire, that’s a different thing altogether. Maybe it’s a good time to write your representatives in Congress too, and ask them to investigate it.
Until something changes, it may also be a good time for you to be more careful when you use your RV, too.
Ron Burge is the nation’s leading expert on RV lemon law. He can be reached at RVLemonLaw.com.
More from Ron:
- How RV recalls happen and how you can force manufacturers to fix problems
- Federal judge calls Thor’s warranty a scheme to deprive RVers of rights
- Is the RV industry’s latest tactic ‘Grind RVers down and wear them out’?
##RVT1173
This nothing new. To the best of my knowledge WFCO has always produced most of their electrical components overseas, they have been in business since 1976. The Chinese are capable of producing good products, however they will produce anything you want at a price point. The RV industry has been in a race to the bottom for years due to the average consumer shopping price first. I have been involved with RVs of one sort or another for over 45 years. Quality, which is subjective, used to be built into the price point. Now it is an afterthought.
Thats why WFCO is complete junk with failure built in.
Sorry, but this article is misleading. First, “charges” in accounting are real, not convenient fictions. Second, even $22 million on $2.2 billion is a 1% profit, which is razor thin by any standard. Third, China can make goods for less money because their costs (primarily labor) are much less than ours. As they get wealthier, that will change, just like it did for Japan and is doing for Korea.
I agree with wahooncx that China is meeting the demand, which is for cheap RV parts by a company who doesn’t care about quality, as long as it doesn’t break until 5 minutes after the warranty expires. If the customers refuse to buy junk, manufacturers will improve their quality.
Five minutes is optimistic. I’ve heard that some components like microwave and convection ovens don’t work even out of the box.
Grand Design is famous for installing junk in their products.
If you really start to investigate anything you buy, you’ll find most are made with parts made in China. Some more than others.
A good many of the American companies have opened parts factories in foreign (Asian) countries or have contracted with these factories overseas.
It’s hard to find anything that says “Made in America” anymore. Assembled YES, made NO.
Just take a look at Buick’s made in China.
I believe China builds to the manufacturing company specifications. So where does the fault lie ? The consumer should not be a victim of a faulty converter that catches fire!
LOL – try to find any electronic part in your house that is NOT made in China!!! In fact, try to find anything in your house that is not made in China. America loves “CHEAP” stuff, and lots of it. Look at the current generations and what toys they require to live compared to the 70’s or earlier. They have to have the latest and greatest, and in order to afford them, they have to be cheap.
I always laugh when people demand a “living wage” for what they do, while demanding “Cheap Stuff.” Well, it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out this cheap stuff has to be made offshore with cheaper labor and less government regulations.
Americans have become overtaken by greed and have been spoiled to the hilt to expect handouts.
Chinese parts are a problem for anyone? Well, put your IPhone, laptop, and ANY appliance away.
Please let me know which company ANYWHERE in the world that isn’t trying to maximize profit? You may want to think about that the next time you get on a Boeing aircraft!
I thoroughly enjoy this newsletter, however this article is 100% scaremongering.
FYI, I just bought 2 x 230 AH Li Time batteries made in China and the quality and price are amazing, as well the customer service blows away anything that I have found with Canadian or US built products. Sometimes they are better, because they try harder.
Li-time is also Power Queen, I recently installed 2 Power Queen 300AH batteries in my Motorhome, will see how they hold up.
Leonard. I agree.
Apparently Mr. Burge doesn’t understand Accounting 101 or the legal accounting rules public corporations must follow when he accuses Thor of “accounting GAMES.” They restructured debt which had interest rate and term extension impacts. Those impacts MUST be accounted for and there are strict rules on how that must be done.
Also, China is WELL versed in the production of electrical and electronic items. Look at their EV production. Is that enough of a complex assembly?!
Not everything made anywhere is 100% quality. Anyone with an RV knows that!
Very true. His comment was borderline “THOSE GREEDY CORPORATION!!” BS certain politicians keep spewing to fool the easy to fool simple-minded into voting for them. I hoped that kind of stuff would stay out of places like this. Shame on you Mr Burge!
Seriously, RV dealers don’t know? It’s ironic that Americans build these “cheap” RVs but blame the “cheap” Chinese products used. The products may be inferior but whose fault is it when wires are sandwiched under a table, cabinets falling, bad welds, mis-aligned plumbing, missing or no screws, incorrect install of product itself? The good Ole USA is sometimes its own worst enemy with greed and profits, its business 101, lol!
Another article to ignite hate
I disagree that the article ignites hate….it promotes discussion.
The hateful ones are the ones who are trolling looking to start a rumble. See it everywhere anymore.
Cheap now but not if TARIFFS are added! Then what? If US companies have closed their doors and costs are now high then profits go down. Do RV companies close, raise prices….
Exactly…and we all know,or should,by now just who wants to slap on more tariffs so American consumers wind up paying more and corporations gain more profits.
OR the stuff starts getting built in the USA, huh! Which would be better if the cost was the same???
Chinese manufacturing seems to have two attributes not often seen in U.S. manufacturing, aside from cheap labor. Number one is scalability, number two is an ability to sell the same piece with whatever label the customer wants. As for later item go on Amazon and see how many sellers have what appears to be the same item but with a different name. (continued in reply)
(continuation of comment) The first item is a big thing. The factory will build 2,000 or 20,000 of an item, then move on to a different contract. They retool quickly. The importer’s name goes on the part or device. They also seemingly don’t care about patents. Hand them the drawings and specs and they do it. The downside of this rapid retooling? You want repair parts? Good luck. You might find an identical item under another importer’s name. The original contracting company would have to get back in line to produce those – but in many cases the importer grabbed its money, dissolves the company and starts a new one.
Correctamundo.
Tell us in detail how and why so many American manufacturers moved their factories offshore…and why they are making so many profits off of junk.
Thank you, Ron! 🙂 Frankly, I think this article would have been eminently better had you included more factual examples of the price differences. If there also were examples of the adverse effects on safety, then all the better. I won’t go as far as disagreeing that Chinese electrical and electronic parts could be a problem. I do not think that you have made a very good argument for your premise. Thanks again, have a great week, safe travels, and safe stays! 🙂
If the OP hasn’t noticed, most of the parts in new “American” RVs are already cheap crap and have been for years – no matter where they are made. RV and “Quality” are antonyms. I’ve had to replace most of the electronics/batteries/cabinet hardware and much of the plumbing in my 2017 RV already. Have also had to rebuild furniture. This just means we might pay less for the cheap crap initially. Unfortunately it probably also means there will be less quality options for replacements/repairs/upgrades as American consumers become increasingly unwilling to pay what the few good U.S. component manufacturers need to get while competing with $2.00/hour Chinese wages.
There is a very informative Youtube video titled You have to be Insane to buy a new RV. If you want to see an attorney recite and discuss many of the incredulous conditions, that are not hidden in the contracts and are designed to leave you holding the bag. I advise you to watch this. This includes extended warranties as well. As I have read about the industry’s blatant predatory nature and people’s woes for years now, I find it harder to be sympathetic. Insane is not the word I would use.
I have always bought new RV’s. It’s also up to the buyer to be informed when buying new or used RVs. There are many options, check lists and RV inspectors out there to assist before you buy…that’s why when you buy a house you should have a home inspection. You can’t make a blanket statement to not buy a new RV.
“If you want to see an attorney recite and discuss many of the incredulous conditions, that are not hidden in the contracts and are designed to leave you holding the bag.”
LOL – those conditions are written by attorneys. Unfortunately, with all the “sue happy” consumers and ambulance chasing attorneys out there, they have to do that.
An actual converter brand put into an actual rv would give us some context here. Otherwise, this is poor generalization of manufacturing from other countries. iPhones are made in China and are excellent. I’ve owned 4. The idea that if something made elsewhere than the US means it’s of poor quality is just as dumb as saying everything made here will be great. You can have both good and poor from anywhere.
Think about how we used to talk about things made in Japan. They met the challenge and surpassed it. The American car manufactures were forced to build better cars because of the influx of Japanese quality cars. And we’re still trying to catch up.
“If it’s just nuts and bolts, not a big deal. After all, it’s pretty hard to make those wrong.”
Wow, please stick to a topic you actually know something about. Counterfeit fasteners are one of the major problems in the manufacturing world with a huge profit margin.
This article reads like it was written by a bitter old man who just lost their job in a converter factory. Hint: A converter is just a high-current DC power supply with a timer on the voltage levels. Nothing more and nothing less. They are extremely simple devices technically and can be made anywhere.
Tires are the worst problem. I hear so many stories of Chinese tires having blowouts.
And most of those are probably user error.
I’m not sure who Ron Burge is by I think rvtravel.com needs to put a disclaimer on articles like this or better vet the content.
Evert, And why should we put a disclaimer on this or vet the content (which we did)? What do you object to in the article?
I’ll jump in and cite the attitude expressed about the implied obscene profits on 2 billion dollars in sales…and the implication that the 14 million write off was not legitimate. What would be wrong with a total 21 million profit on 2 billion in the first place? And are businesses now not allowed to take an IRS permitted write off on legitimate losses? As it is…the 7 million in profit is a measly 3.5% …I make more than that on my CD’s!
Moving on…it is unsubstantiated that any of the claims of quality differences ARE putting RV’ers at risk at a greater rate than now. The Chinese CAN make wonderful quality goods or poor quality based on specification. It is the RV makers choice.
My impression is that since the writer is noted as the nations leader on rv lemon law (I’m assuming in the USA) you have noted him before, that you support his comments. I may be wrong. His article needs more facts as others here have noted.
Does anyone really think that a Progressive converter does NOT contain Chinese components?
Also, one big reason American made components are so expensive is the huge cost to employers of providing medical insurance. Most other industrialized countries have single payer (national) health insurance with other coverage optional.
I’m not sure of your point. Components from those other countries are just as expensive as those made in America, if not more. Those costs have to be absorbed somewhere.
And high wages
Wow Ron Burge, we’re not 5th graders here.
I don’t think writing to Washington will help. Maybe voting in November will though. It’s taken years to create this mess.
Low priority for politicians. They are busy doing insider trading and cashing in from lobbyists.
This is not new. The US based supplier I worked for shifted production of RV components (and mobile home parts) as well as items supplied to other US makers of RV parts to China in the late 1990’s. Xantrex, Amana, Atwood, Power Gear, Norcold among the many others who were our customers before they too moved production to China in the late 1990’s and early 2000’s. The Chinese can make very high quality items, if the customer specification demands! If the customer demands lowest price, then you get parts that might last through the warranty period, if you’re lucky!
Interesting article with a lot of interesting comments. Jim Johnson summed it all up pretty well.
RV: noun : “Are Vee”.
This biggest pos you will spend the most amount of money on. I love my 2020(Grand Design) Imagine, I do accept what total junk it is, just like my 2003 Forest River.
That said, my 1974 Shasta was pretty solid.
Worked at an RV service center. Veteran technicians call them total junk. Most of them won’t even buy their own camper because they know how bad the quality is. Greedy Elkhart corporations
Even bolts can be inferior as Chinese steel often lies about meeting international standards. That is why many big American companies including our military will not accept Chinese steel.
Exactly. MIL spec used on military equipment especially aircraft
Your comment If it’s just nuts and bolts, not a big deal. Is incorrect. If they use nuts and bolts made with cheaper quality materials. While your driving down the road a bolt snaps or strips out while you’re driving 65 miles an hour, it may cost you your life. Chinese electronics use lead free solder, which over time grow hair like tentacles. If the RV catches fire sue the RV and parts manufacturer’s.
RoHS (Restriction of Hazardous Substances) directive greatly impacted the use of lead in electronics around the world. It’s not just a “China” thing. I worked for one of the largest computer mfgs in the world. I remember the RoHS transition well.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restriction_of_Hazardous_Substances_Directive
Aircraft maintenance technician here. Nuts and bolts improperly made kill a lot of people. Think aircraft engine falling off the plane. It has already happened.
Get real people. I bet there is a dozen, if not more items you folks have at home that is made in China. without even realizing. is easy to blame China & use them as scapegoats. Apple I Phone is good example good old U.S.A. can’t do if Apple decides to switch factory to India? China can produce top quality products only to what U.S. companies’ specs.
Those of us with small RV’s like popup trailers and canned ham use tires made in China as there are no tires the size we need made in the USA. If you take care of them, there is no problem. then again, there are the guys who tow at seventy with under inflated tires who blow their tires and blame the Chinese made tires…
Walk through your house and pick up any item and odds are it’s made in China. Most of these items are made to last a few years then break. I built a house 7 years ago and I’ve already replaced the water heater, dishwasher, microwave, three plumbing fixtures, and the clothes dryer. All of these items were manufactured in China. It was more expensive to have them repaired than to buy new. It’s very hard to find products made in the USA. Sad.
The problem for RV manufacturers is the quality control is very low in China. The RV manufacturer might save money up front, but not in the long run when they are replacing poor quality China-made components under warranty.
More corporate greed.
Brought to you by the same people recently endorsed by Putin, XI, HAMAS and Dick Cheney.
Yeah, to the tune of 2 billion (gross??) profit with 14 million (net ???) profit. LOL – what, would you have them make no profit??? How about you, should you make no profit on your investments/retirement funds, paycheck, etc??? I bet you would really whine if your gross earning were $100k but you only took home $700
Ooh. Hot topic! As a former owner of a small classic car part vendor, I can chime in here.
My job was to source vendors who could make components, such as a heater valve, or a brake caliper. Samples and drawing were sent, preproduction samples tested, along with comments for submitted back. Often this back and forth went as much as two years. Only when we were satisfied with the components quality (after hard real-world testing) was a production run made.
some companies did excellent, others had high failures. The ones that made good quality parts, we continued doing business with. Full disclosure: We found a number of these companies in the APEX show, in Vegas, during SEMA week.
I’m a victim of Chinese parts. I have a 2008 Country Coach Intrigue and 3-1/2 years ago on a trip back home we lost the pump to the radiator fan. Two years later we received the pump from China. It was installed and 11 miles later failed again. One year later we received a replacement pump from China but our shop won’t put it on without a new pressure regulator to prevent the new pump from failing again. That part has been on order from China for 6 months. We’re stuck and can’t travel thanks to outsourcing to China. It’s terrible what profit seeking has done to US manufacturing. It should be a crime and it would be great to get some help from our congress in going back to US built parts.
Based on my experience with forensic investigations, the main problem with Chinese products is the specifications. If the purchasing agent or specifier doesn’t know what they want, and doesn’t give the Chinese company good specifications, they will get whatever the Chinese want to supply. We had a case where an American company recognized the specifications were wrong and were supplying what was really needed. When the contract was changed to a Chinese company, they didn’t know any better and supplied what the specifications required, which failed. And yes, you can get nuts and bolts wrong very easily.
I just purchased a new Grand Design 150 series, and after reading the sources of the materials in the RV, it is basically a Chinese RV with Lippert and Furrion supplying most of everything but the tires. Many RV manufacturers, no, assemblers, seem to source most everything based on price. When so many are trying to buy American, the RV mfgs do the opposite. And then we consumers wonder what is wrong with the industry.
I now repair or upgrade with premium parts, which takes research but it is worthwhile for me in terms of reliability and safety. These parts are sourced all over the world, but they have a brand and a spec sheet and cost more accordingly.
So who wants these profits? Many RV’ers are depend on investment returns for their retirement. We have trained Wall Street to demand large profits from all companies with a focus on next quarter.
In fairness, there are Chinese companies that make good quality products.They follow specifications provided by the company ordering the part. It’s up to the QC inspectors of the buying company to ok production, AND to continue those quality inspections.The blame for shoddy Chinese parts lies with the company that orders and pays for them. Yes, it’s all about making a fast buck. Buyers beware of who you are dealing with. Do your research. Never trust a salesman’s word.
I am not against buying some products made in China but I am very much against buying everything made in China. For this reason I mostly boycott anything that is made there. Some things, like bamboo, real china, I do want to buy from them. If I absolutely cannot find a product made somewhere else and I really need it then made in China it is.
My point is to not allow China to have the monopoly of making everything we need and to hopefully bring a lot back to the US.
We are weaker when we allow ourselves to being dependent on other countries for our day to day. Lets make our country strong and powerful again.
You must have a lot of time to shop around. If governments are going to add hefty tariffs (as some politicians are planning) on imports to force production in the USA then consumers are going to pay much more for these items. World trade is a good thing. One country cannot supply all its own needs.
Thor must be in real trouble. 7.2 million in profit on 2.2 billion in sales revenue is only 3 tenths of a percent profit. Without the 14.7 million write off, they would have been 7.5 million in the red. That’s not a company I would invest in.
Ah, the paradox. Can’t demand everything be made here and then wander off to walmart and the dollar store or harbor freight to buy stuff. And, then complain your investments are doing poorly here. Corporate greed is a thing but often that is in response to consumers demands for cheaper products to stay competitive. Vicious circle.
I prefer the term consumer greed…you said it well otherwise.
“Historically, any electronic device made with cheap parts and cheap labor is not very likely to be made as well as one of higher quality made in the USA” is simply not true.
This is the same type of racist rhetoric that was spewed when Japan took favor over Detroit. When Sony displaced Zenith and when Airbus gained share on Boeing.
Just about every solid state device you own *might* have a semiconductor, diode or circuit board that was manufactured at a lesser cost in China, Vietnam or Mexico. It’s all junk cuz it ain’t ‘Murican?
Heres a cheat sheet from the American Semiconductor Industry Association.
Here’s a 2023 State of the Industry on the subject because facts do matter.
Some Chinese parts are cheap and unreliable. Some are very good. Generalized statements are most often wrong.