By Dave Solberg
Dear Dave,
Ever since we bought our RV, we have had issues with it, including:
- Antenna – Brought for repair multiple times and still does not work properly.
- Shower leak – Brought for repair multiple times, but never did fix correctly – We fixed it.
- Kitchen faucet broke in half – We replaced.
- Kitchen sink drain cracked 3/4 of the way around – We replaced.
- Toilet water valve leaked – We replaced part.
- Black tank flush pipe leaked in bathroom cabinet – We fixed.
- All 4 tires defective – We had to buy 4 new tires.
- Slide stripped and broken – should be a recall from manufacturer. We will have to pay $1400 or more to have the dealer replace it with the older and better parts. The RV dealer has had to fix at least 9 other RV slides with the same problem and customers are paying the price.
Question: Why is this not a recall from the manufacturer? Do you know if there is something we can do to make the manufacturer pay for this repair?
Thank you so much for your response, in advance. —Kim, 2022 Forest River Grey Wolf Black Label (MKBL)
Dear Kim,
Unfortunately, the RV industry is experiencing a quality issue and it has gotten worse in the past few years due to the explosion in sales, lack of technicians, and lack of quality labor force at the manufacturer level. Forest River is at the top (or bottom) of the pile! A Wall Street Journal article posted how even Warren Buffett can’t fix the quality issues, and one owner is mounting a class action suit. He is a retired law enforcement officer that had a fifth wheel with a ton of issues, as well. Chuck Woodbury, RVtravel.com publisher, posted an article about this, also.
I can’t advise on the recall issue without more information. However, I know that RV manufacturers are racing to the bottom to produce the cheapest unit and charge the most money, as it is all driven by profit and greed. My question is: If the dealer had to fix 9 other RV slides, why isn’t he holding the RV manufacturer accountable?
People keep buying RVs with issues, so manufacturers frequently don’t change
It’s a vicious circle and we are caught in it. I thought at some point it would ruin the industry or at least shut down most of the bottom feeders. But people keep buying, so the RV manufacturers will keep doing the same old thing.
I don’t mean to minimize the issues you have had. However, I do believe you are one of the lucky ones! I conduct seminars at more than 10 shows across the country and hear about all types of quality issues from audience members. Also, I receive more than 500 questions and comments from readers each year here at RVtravel.com. There are some real horror stories out there.
However, I also believe there are some responsibilities that we as buyers and owners need to accept, as well. The RV industry is painting a false picture of the RV experience, in my opinion. For example, all the Go RVing ads show a beautiful RV sitting next to a beach or mountain in the middle of nowhere and the “campers” relaxing around a roaring campfire oblivious to the world. I have even talked with several people in the industry that call the campaign believing in fairies and unicorns!
“RVs do not break down and do not leak!”
A few years ago I approached the head of RVIA to discuss the RV Repair Club and they would have nothing to do with it, stating several times: “RVs do not break down and do not leak!” Guess what. These people do not RV. Their idea of “roughing it” is a Holiday Inn.
I will give credit to the Recreational Vehicle Training Institute (RVTI), that is making an enormous effort to train technicians and partnering with equipment manufacturers such as Lippert, Airxcel, Blue Ox, Dometic, and others to help provide more qualified technicians for the industry.
So what can we, as consumers, do?
The best approach is education, in my opinion. In my RV Buyers Seminar I ask attendees, who has ever bought or built a house. Then I ask how long it took to pick out the flooring, how long did you research different subfloor materials, insulation, and types of shingles or other roofing. We spend weeks, months, sometimes years researching every aspect of a home build or remodel, yet very few RV buyers ask anything more than what the monthly payment is.
If we don’t ask questions about the flooring, structure, and other items, RV manufacturers will not spend a single dime on those items, rather making something that sits next to the competition at a lower price.
I have posted several photos from readers on wiring such as this:
We need to become better educated
We also need to become better educated on how things work and what limitations the rigs we are buying have. More than 50% of the calls one of the leading roadside assistance and tech support companies, Coach-Net, receive are due to owners not knowing how a system or component works, and slide rooms are the number one item!
So, they either do something to make it break down, such as overloading the room, not leveling and stabilizing the rig, or other issues—so it either doesn’t work or it breaks. I’m not saying this is the case in every situation and especially yours. But I do know that dealers who spend extra time educating their customers, such as General RV, have more than 50% fewer service issues.
Understand RV limitations
We also need to understand the limitations of the units and components. Most rigs are not designed to handle the twists and turns that we subject them to in some of the remote campgrounds and boondocking. They also have weight ratings such as Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR), Gross Axle Weight Rating (GAWR), and towing capacity.
In a recent survey, fewer than 50% of owners have weighed their rig for GVWR and even fewer for GAWR. Overloading a rig can cause stress on frames, sidewalls, slide room mechanisms, and tires.
According to the RV Safety & Education Foundation (RVSEF) more than 50% of the rigs they weigh are overloaded in some capacity. Also, more than 50% still have underinflated tires! This is a surefire recipe for tire failure.
I am not saying it is our fault but, rather, we need to put RVing into perspective. Why do we need 5 TVs, 6 slide rooms, Bluetooth remote to start the generator or bring out the slides, and a fireplace? I saw an ad last week for a refrigerator with a full glass front! Aren’t we just asking for trouble? And, really, it’s not a fireplace. It’s a light show with a fan.
More questions about list of service items
Looking at your list of service items, I have more questions: Why didn’t the dealer fix these things the first time? A TV antenna is a very simple component and should not take several attempts to fix. And the shower leak—taken back several times and you fixed it?
Again, I am not trying to minimize the issues you have had. However, we also have to realize these rigs are pushed or pulled down a line and hand-built, for the most part. They are not designed and engineered to be assembled with exact robotics like a car or truck. There will be some items that need to be adjusted or fixed.
In my seminars, when I ask if anyone has built a home, I also ask them if they got to the finish and had no “punch list” of repairs needed. Nothing for the dry wall installer, painter, landscaper… anything? They all roll their eyes and admit all construction has a punch list—which we expect in building a home. Yet the home sits on a foundation and is climate controlled. The RV bounces down the road and is left in extreme heat or cold when not in use.
Don’t get me wrong. I am not an advocate for the RV manufacturers and I do not think most of them are doing a good job. However, I have been in this industry since 1983 and it hasn’t changed much when it comes to quality, in my opinion. Rather, we hear about it more because of social media. The numbers are larger but I don’t believe the percentages are much different. Also, we are demanding all the comforts of home be put into a box that gets beat to H.E.double-toothpicks.
Here is a previous two-part post on RV quality.
You might also enjoy these posts from Dave
- Why is there no industry-wide RV quality control?
- What can a dinette cushion tell you about RV quality?
- Important follow-up to Grand Design quality and frame flex issues story
- Looking for new RV. Part 1: Why isn’t RV quality the same throughout a manufacturer’s lines?
- Looking for new RV. Part 2: Why aren’t there many 26′-28′ travel trailers? Best time to buy?
From Tony Barthel:
Dave Solberg is a leading expert in the RV industry and the author of the “RV Handbook.”
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Before we bought our first RV I spent a lot of time reading about them on line at various sites, like RVTravel. I learned that I would absolutely never buy a new one. Why have a warranty that makes you fight for every remedy or have your new toy sitting in a dealership supposedly waiting for parts, while your warranty continues to run out. There are no doubt exceptions to this, but the RV industry is used to building second rate crap that people continue to buy. They know people will buy them no matter what, so there is no incentive to raise the standards.
RV warranties are at best a waste of paper and at worst a con. Warranty customer service (?) seemingly has a frontline staffer whose job is to say ‘no that is not covered under warranty’. If RV warranties were at least as good as the passenger vehicle industry, RV manufacturers would step up their quality control. Yes, RV prices would rise, but warranty issues would decline.
A punch list for a house really does no good. You may find some minor problems that will be taken care of. But what about all the hidden problems. Wall studs secured with 2 nails instead of 4, shingles secured with 3-4 nails instead of 5, 7/16 inch roof sheeting instead of 5/8.
I have a friend who bought $300K house. Within a year, siding is starting to buckle, interior doors are sticking, floors are creaking, water hammering in the plumbing and cheap fixtures, low end appliances, kitchen countertop that cracked, loose electrical outlets and other not visible problems.
These houses are built just like most RV’s, Hurry up and get it done.
Most problems do not show up right away.
I’m with you, Dave, that we RVers need to take some responsibility. Considering that the best selling RV is the junky Coleman from awful Camping World it shows that many buyers do zero research.
We have had no real issues with the four new RVs we’ve had and I try to share tips for shopping for a new RV in my weekly RV reviews here. There are better RVs out there and a lot of poorly built ones.
The caliber of the local dealership is a big factor as well. Rather than shopping in the showroom first buyers should speak with the head of the service department first.
I’ve been preaching this for years and it mostly falls on deaf ears, unfortunately.
Love “it’s not a fireplace. It’s a light show with a fan.”
Thank you for the question and answering it so extensively, Dave. Buying should always be preceded by a lot of research. After buying two RVs, we have decided that our third (and last?) RV will include a “factory delivery/pickup.” The way our manufacturer does this we have a dedicated tech for four days who addresses any problems directly, or by taking the RV into the manufacturer service center. I guess we will see how this works. Have a great day and safe travels!
I have been messing with RVs for over 45 years. I even helped build a couple using Glen-L plans back in the early 80s. There have always been QC issues though they have gotten worse as the industry has grown. Many are due to lack of craftsmanship, which happens when you pay people by the piece. And build RVs using substandard components.
Owners are also to blame for not doing their due diligence and learning how the systems operate. If you follow any social media group one of the most common questions is “why isn’t such and such plug working” a very high percentage are due to a tripped GFCI. Or why don’t my plugs work when I’m not hooked up to shore power. God help us all!
My understanding is that most recalls are ordered by the NHTSA (or would be if the manufacturer didn’t do it voluntarily) to correct safety issues. The list above is things that are irritating and may keep the RV from being used, but are not safety issues, with the possible exception of the tires. Also, complaining on RV Travel or Facebook is not as effective as a complaint, with proper documentation, to the NHTSA, CPSC, FTC, or state equivalents. Even better, sue the ………