By Chuck Woodbury
EDITOR, RVTRAVEL.COM
Sometimes you run into the perfect storm. I am not talking about running into one on the ocean, but in an RV park. It happened to me in Kingman, Arizona.
Gail and I had stopped for two nights. We chose the KOA because it was the only decent place to stay with hookups that had room for us. Maybe we should have just stayed at the local Wal-Mart, where I saw a couple of dozen RVers holed up. They didn’t pay a penny to stay.
Typical with KOA, the sites were packed close together, which contributed to the perfect storm. Here’s why:
First, our next door neighbors had created a nice campsite — awning with a screen to transform the area into very pleasant enclosed porch. They had laid out carpet and set up folding chairs facing the outdoor TV.
They started watching the TV at about 10 a.m., and continued most of the day and evening. Even when they went inside for hours at a time, the TV remained on. Shortly after we arrived, I asked the man to turn down the volume. He seemed surprised, but obliged. But I could still easily hear it from inside my RV.
The man smoked cigars off and on all day. This, of course, made my motorhome smell like a cigar.
THE COUPLE HAD LIT UP THEIR SITE with a string of green lights on the ground completely around their RV. They never turned them off, even when they were asleep. The lights were bright. Gail and I had to close our windows at night or pretended we were in a sleazy motel.
Now, the couple had every right to watch their outdoor TV and to illuminate their campsite with bright lights. And he had every right to smoke his cigars. But to do so in a campground without regard to close-by neighbors, well, that’s just plain rude.
This sort of experience is not uncommon. It’s a big reason many RVers turn to boondocking, away from the crowds, where light is from the stars and the smell is sagebrush or pine.
When I am annoyed by a neighboring camper’s loud TV, radio, etc. – which seems to happen with more frequency lately – I leave a note under their windshield after they have gone to bed at night, saying that I will start allowing my teenagers to play their rap and hip-hop music loudly the next day if the noise isn’t stopped. Actually, I don’t have teenagers, but since they don’t know who left the note, they think it could be anybody nearby. I have done this three times so far, and it has worked perfectly each time.
Today you probably are on camera when you leave your note. You might want to think about that.
What’s to think about? It’s not like I’m leaving a death threat.
I don’t know, teenagers and rap music can be pretty scary ;/
Hi Chuck,
National Park Campgrounds in Queensland, Australia have just banned smoking in and around campsites, BBQs and Eating Areas. This helps those especially who do not want their children or even themselves exposed to passive smoking. We look forward to other states in Australia following this ruling. Thanks for the great newsletters.
Love that!
Me too.
Yes! I wish our parks would do this for no other reason than I would not have to see cigarette butts all over the damn place.
So Diane; at night, you entered another’s campsite, uninvited, to place a note on their windshield? Not a very wise idea! Your NOISY NEIGHBORS could detect your intrusion, and view it as a danger and/or threat, The outcome could be disastrous. I sure wouldn’t want ANYONE entering my campsite, especially at night, unless they were invited.
It only takes a few seconds to leave a note when the vehicle is only a yard or two into the front end of the campsite. I’ll take the chance anytime. I would not, of course, go any further into the campsite than that.
It only takes a few seconds to be attacked by the RV owner who may think you are vandalizing their property. Next time you do something so foolish, smile, you could be on camera. Many RVer’s are installing outside cameras on their rigs for protection and insurance purposes. A visit during the day would be safer and get you more traction.
I found this article interesting as to one’s definition of rude. We are full timers and have run into situations that we define as rude but it usually included kids or dogs. Lights would never bother me or cross my mind that mine would bother you. We have room darkening shades that are needed because many parks have very bright lights on posts. As far as smoke…. cigar or camp fires…. all the same to me. Actually I think the campfire annoys me more. Lastly, the tv outside. Did so many people request that feature that the RV industry decided to add one to all of their RV’s? I scratch my head….. but to noise, tv’s, radios, kids,and dogs, I tolerate them until quiet time. But if it drags past 10PM I leave the next day very grumpy and scratch that park off my list.
I don’t tolerate rude behavior in the form of loud TV or barking dogs. I go over, introduce myself and compliment their rig, and then politely suggest their noise might be bothering not just me but other campers, as well. I recite a few general campground rules, and if they decide to ignore me, I go to the campground host and lodge a complaint. These rude people just keep being rude if one walks away grumpy the next day without even attempting to educate them.
As you have noted in many of your recent articles, there is an enormous influx of newbies into the world of RVing. Many of whom like to pack the “city” with them when they go camping. Bothersome to me when they play music or TV’s excessively loud. I personally like to have music on but I make sure that it can’t be heard beyond the boundaries of my site. I don’t mind a minimal amount of lighting around a campsite but find it most annoying when people decide to light up their campsite especially when they find the need to keep their security/scare lights on from dusk to dawn. I enjoy the peacefulness of sitting outdoors on a moonlit evening.
This why we like boondocking . If we get a neighbor hopefully they will be at least 150′ away. we have gone to the expense of installing solar panels which gives us the opportunity of boondocking. Plus we have found that the expense of staying in RV parks is one of our biggest expenses.
150′ is not nearly far enough away from a noisy generator. Some of them can be heard up to 1/2 mile away.
The very reason we don’t stay in RV parks unless we absolutely have no other choice. As full timers, our solar is very inexpensive compared to the annoyance and expense of RV parks.
BINGO – like you and yours Robbie the lady and I have been practising “social distancing” decades before the expression was coined.
This type of behavior, of not giving a hoot about your neighbors, closely follows the general pattern of society behavior today.
Nothing new on this earth..
We try and set a good example for others, but some folks don’t see it or care.
You summed it all up!
Maybe someone (not me) should come up with a list of general RV etiquette that we all hope would be followed by RVrs. I know it’s very subjective, but one could print it out and have available when needed to gently provide to the offender on their windshield. It’s all in education. Some people are not raised with any general etiquette, whatsoever, and maybe this would be a start in educating these rude campers. To us, it’s common sense, but to a few others……
This has a little merit Carla Jean – however, I think you risk serious confrontation by singling out any one Rv/Person. Seems to me a better plan would be a printed copy being presented to all campers at time of registration with a signature showing they received it. Putting up signs like a lot of campgrounds do – are of little value especially if their own rules aren’t enforced anyway – even if the signs are read?!
We’ve been RV’ing for over 20 years. Over 250,000 miles traveled, with 3 RV’s. Yes, rudeness at RV parks has increased, just like in general society. However, we haven’t had too many issues. I would place some of the blame on the RV parks. If they are going to publish quiet times (& turn off bright lights times) they should enforce. Whatever time, a park employee needs to go around at that time & make note of the violators & leave notes or visit the next day. Maybe if they even posted a sign or mentioned at check-in that someone checks that would eliminate some of it. We also have a TV (not from factory) in a lower bin. We are avid race/golf fans & record races, golf to watch at our choosing. If we are just hanging out & it’s a nice day will watch outside. However, we are very conscious of the volume level. Place are chairs close & keep volume down. We’ve also done lights….in the Keys, which seems to be a requirement :-). Never had a problem with others leaving on all night. Ours are on a timer so we don’t ever leave them on. When I think about it we had way more positive experiences that negative. Just that the negative is so annoying & disruptive.
We always camp in state parks. Both the rangers and the campground hosts ALWAYS act reluctant to speak to violators of noise etiquette. (I’m a different Diane M from the person above.)
Hi Diane M: Reading your note, makes me yearn, when C-19 lifts, all the more for that beautiful hidden gem by the lake the misses and I discovered in Idaho, with none of what makes your day and night a joy for you.
Nature, that’ll be the natural stuff for us – birds , bees, a coyote on the trail of a rabbit in a far off field, the wild flowers and the moon on a clear night – that’s our thrill – as we stay as far away from the “negative” the “annoying” and the “disruptive” in this life.
We camp almost exclusively in the South.
This means we welcome meeting new people & generally hold barbecue / football / fish fry & shrimp or crawfish parties. Neighboring campers are invited & we enjoy the social atmosphere.
Campfires are normal, often someone has a TV playing & others listen to music. We are all not easily annoyed unless it is a car horn blaring at 2am.
We also do not make a big thing out of 2nd hand smoke & no one I have been around acts like a smoke nazi, if they have a problem they can move 10 feet away.
BTW – I am not a smoker.
I am just now entering the RV world. And am allergic to tobacco smoke. How easy is it to move to another campsite? I was curious as I assumed if it is sold out, there are no other sites to move to.
If the campground is full, you have no choice but to either stay where you are or move to another park. It’s always best when making a reservation to ask for a campsite away from campfire rings and/or grills.
I always find it funny that the house (RV) who wants to have a party invites the neighbors. What if the neighbors don’t want to participate? Now the folks who did the inviting can say “well, we invited them!”. Like inviting the neighbors justifies the loud noise and loud music.
TV??? Whomever designed to have a TV while camping had a screw loose. Don’t get me wrong, I love watching college and pro football. But taking all that out camping where folks want to enjoy a peaceful outting???? Stay home. It is a sad state of affairs that the weekend campers can’t live without watching TV for 2 days. (Full timers are different. Tho being respestful is still warranted.)
Smoke??? Second hand smoke can kill or make another person sick. One day that crap will be outlawed. Smokers say “it’s my right!” Well, it’s my right not to get cancer from someone elses cancer sticks.
For 25 years I served as a police officer. I can’t tell you how many times I dealt with folks with your attitude and indignation. Thankfully in our town your music and or loud noise was either a violation or criminal and I could shut it down and make arrests if needed. The neighbors who had to suffer along were all grateful.
I meant to say Outdoor TV’s. Not the indoor ones.
Sorry J French – you are a smoker! – hope you don’t find out to late. Happy Trails.
Oregon state parks have a 10pm quiet time. Rangers go around reminding people to turn their radios off. (Except one fellow then thought it was time to bring out his guitar). In Sedona, the RV park requires all lights off at 10pm. No porch lights, nothing. People grumble. The TOWN of Sedona has an ordinance against light pollution affecting their night sky. Personally, I don’t want your light in my window, I don’t want to listen to your music, and I sure don’t want to breathe your 2nd hand smoke. I’m with Chuck.
I agree.
I think that no noise, smoke or bright lights should leave your campsite. It is not easy when you are parked close together, but when you are close together then a camper should be even more mindful of disturbing his neighbor. I like to keep a low profile.
The rope lights were probably there as a common way to keep very destructive pack rats away from the rig.
Popeye, I thought of that, but is that light really important in the middle of a KOA campground? I doubt it. I think people buy these lights and then they figure they better use them, with no thought that maybe their neighbors might enjoy leaving their windows open for some fresh air at night and maybe they don’t like red or green lights lighting up their bedroom like they’re in a seedy motel. I see no grand purpose in these lights. They’re just annoying to a lot of people. I find it sad that a lot of RV makers are now adding colored LED lights under awnings along the roof line as standard equipment.
I don’t like the lights either so I have a couple of sleep masks handy.
I hear the lights do not keep the rodents away.
We have been to a state park where my neighbor had a 24 hr 7 day a week campfire burning or rather smoldering the whole time.
I have trouble breathing. After the first night which I didn’t sleep very much I asked him if he wouldn’t burn it when it got real late.
It smoldered all night, the trees made the air still and we were packed in like fish in a can.
The next day I mentioned it to the pack Ranger, he said go talk to the camp host I’m sure he can help. Guess who was the CAMP HOST !
In this day of carbon dioxide fouling the atmosphere – the air humans breathe – for the life of me I cannot understand why campground camp fires haven’t been banned. Inconsiderate blockheads who insist on wood fires will not get the message until they are walking around with an oxygen tank on their back! And even then they probably will not connect the dots, which at that time will be to late anyway!
Such a directive will have to come from operators perhaps even governments who share a real concern that we cannot continue forever to screw with the air we breathe.
Thanks to most here for reminding me why I haven’t had my TT out for over 10 years.
Lights around the outside of the rv are ridiculous. The don’t shine in the owners rv they only shine in the windows of the neighbors. There are also some newer 5th wheels that have bright lights built in to the body of the rv. Time to turn these lights off!
TV-Be-Gone, a simple device that will turn off every single TV currently sold in the US and Canada.
Great idea, I just ordered one.
you can buy an aircraft landing light. they are about4 inches in diameter. hook it up to your battery an turn it on. in no time at all your neighbor will turn his lights off. dont run the light too long as it will drain your battery pretty quick
Maybe that will work, but i see it as one hell of A dangerous experiment – the perfect setup to get yourself shot – if you play this game with the wrong nut-bar.
It’s become a problem with campground rules not being enforced by park staff. Many do not understand “leave no trace” rules, and none of them were ever in the Boy Scouts.
Chuck, we see this more and more happening across the country. It didn’t start off this way, but as years go by, it seems it has gotten worse, not better! It’s the “All About Me” that has infestered some with no regards to anyone else. At least in our RV’s we can move on to another spot, rather than loose sleep over someone who could care less on how you feel or how it is effecting you! Boondocking welcome!
Good on you Joe, if moving on is your solution, I see it as the problem – sure does nothing to solve the ignorant bugger syndrome. At some point the meek may just have to stand and fight the bully – if we don’t there soon may be NOWHERE to “move on to”
What everyone is saying is true – the newer folks to camping have little to no knowledge about campground etiquette. But I think the problem starts at the factory. Engineers design RVs. The irony is, most of these engineers never spent a day camping. They have designed RVs with outdoor speakers, TV’s (some have up to 4), lights that make a site appear to be in the daylight, surround sound, and most lately, as they call them, “slam lock” cargo door latches. Think of the stupidity. If you want all this, stay home.
Camping, RVing, or whatever you go to the woods for, has faded. Very little peace and quiet. And compound this with the corporations buying up campgrounds and doubling the number of sites by cutting the current ones in half. It’s a greed driven business now. Very few family owned campgrounds remain compared to 30 years ago when I began my camping hobby.
I’m quite amazed at the comments posted. Where are all these CG’s? Why are you all afraid to make a face to face contact and state your concern? Writing and leaving an anonymous note, I’ll just crumple and 86 it! I know someone or some of you don’t like confrontation but as the saying goes, “you get what you ask for”. Also, kids aren’t the problem, it’s mom and dad for allowing the behavior. Your all adults, many of us retired and in our “prime years”, don’t be bullied, that’s unacceptable, don’t tolerate it. Last thing you want as suggested, is to go and buy stupid things like aircraft landing lights(you’ll annoy everyone in the CG) and TV-Be-Gone, OMG!
My suggestion has, and still is, separate areas in RV parks.
1 section allows loud music, running 4 wheelers and quads every which way, outside lights and drinking and party time.
Section 2 prohibits everything listed in section 1.
Enforce the rules.
You pick when you enter the park.
Too many thoughtless rude people.
You just have to separate them from people who don’t want all the chaos.
So what do you do when there are way more partying and loud campers and no room in the loud section but room in the quiet section? Do you think any campground would turn down money from a guaranteed renter?
So how many RV parks have you run across that have enough land to separate the noisy jerks from the rest of us by a 1/2 mile or more?
On my way home from Al finding no available sites I drove a bit farther than i like and my wife found a KOA with a site. I preferred to go a little farther to a rest area but she said stop so— we got a spot in the sardine can for $65. How do they stay in business?
Due to the closing of the National Parks and State Parks in Florida I have stayed at a KOA in Ozark, Alabama for the last 12 nights. This KOA has concrete pads and patios. The landscaping is mowed, edged etc. There are “secret garden” Koi ponds in several areas around the campground. The best part is the staff who checks on us and helps us have grocery orders delivered. There are some really special KOA campgrounds!
Ah yes, campground etiquette . I wonder what percentage of campgrounds enforce their own rules. And considering how almost all rules are basically the same, you would think we all would learn and obey them. Keep campsite clean, extinguish your campfire, keep your dog on a leash and pick up its poop and be quiet after 10:00 PM and don’t drive over 5 MPH around the campground. The problem is the campground owners, by not enforcing their own rules they are basically training the rude campers the rules don’t matter. Perhaps the rest of us should complain more to the campgrounds, otherwise nothing will change. Happy Trails
Rope lights on the ground don’t bother me at all … never notice them from inside the rig, or even that much from outside. We sometimes use them to help the DW see when she lets the dogs out during the night while she is reading into the wee hours … on a timer to come on at dusk & go off in wee hours. On our own property away from anyone they are on from dusk to dawn. Rope lights are far preferable in RV parks to porch lights or “scare” lights left on all night. It is the noisy & smoky neighbors who get to me.
We agree with Chuck. Our pet peeves – loud outdoor music or TV audio and bright lights. If I can see it or hear it in my RV it is too much light or too much volume.
Let your lights glare, day/night shades take care of that. Should be a rule kids are on a leash
Chuck
So when boondocking are you always able to stay more than 1/2 mile away from the jerks that can’t live without running their generator? It seems that it is getting harder to do as time goes on and human decency vanishes.
I’ve had a motorhome for 2 years. Old bones grew too tired to lay near cold, damp ground and sometimes get soaked in the tent.
Picture tenting next to the yahoo smoking the cigar. There are no windows to close.
Imagine having to listen to their TV, whether you are in the tent or sitting peacefully outside.
Bright lights? There are no shades to pull in a tent.
Those people are a tenter’s worst nightmare. Now that I’m in a motorhome, they are just obnoxious.
Chuck, it is pretty awful when you have neighbors like that who think only about themselves and not how their actions impact others. One caveat, we were camped in an Arizona County Park a few weeks ago, which had hookups. At night we noticed about a third of the RVs had those LED string lights, which made it seem like Christmas and didn’t bode well for stargazing. What we learned after finding mice in our motorhome is that the LED string lights seem to repel rodents. At least that is what the camp host told us. So, annoying as those lights are, they might serve a purpose in an area where rodents are problematic. The smelly cigar and outside TV blaring, not so much.
Here is my personal thought on CG Rules. If I’m signing any piece of paper that states any CG Rule on it , I first ask the “Host” if they are enforced. If there is ANY hesitation, I refuse to sign. If I’m asked to leave, so what. If the CG is privately owned, they know I will give them a very poor media review. If they are a franchise, I’ll contact the franchise. “Rules are Rules”.
I spent the day yesterday listening to a neighbors dog bark all afternoon. They locked their dogs in their RV and took off for the afternoon, and their dogs barked non stop ( and they know their dogs bark while they’re away ). When they came back I told them their dogs barked the whole time they were gone and referred them to the campground rules which state:” We encourage you to board your pet if you are away for the day. local pet care provider contacts are available at camp store. Pets under distress while owners are away are cause for emergency action”
Right away the neighbor played the tough guy and started saying: ” If someone goes in my camper to get my dogs while I’m away it will be the last thing they do”! ( and proceeded to make a huge fuss over it )
You see , this is how narcissistic people act. Instead of owning up to their mistake and apologizing , they try to turn the tables on you for their own rude behavior.
As Full Time RVers and work-campers, my wife and I spend a lot of time stationary from one campground to another.
I can tell you why rules are not enforced , it’s because of the internet. You see , campground owners and managers are so afraid to get a bad review today that they don’t want to offend anyone. I have never seen one single person at any big name ” franchise” campgrounds get thrown out for their bad behavior. Instead when you complain to the manager they look up the persons site and say: ” Oh , well they’re leaving tomorrow, or the next day” so we won’t have to deal with them anymore. I have heard and seen this over & over.