I recently came across the photo below on the Facebook group Death Valley Hiking & Adventure, of which I am a member. The photo was posted by a group member who had reserved a 50-amp electric campsite operated by Death Valley National Park (hard to come by), with the plan to charge his EV while tent camping.
If you are unable to read the text at the top right corner within the pedestal box, it states:
Electric Vehicle / EV charging is NOT supported in this campground.
Plugging your EV into this pedestal could permanently damage your vehicle and the campground’s electrical system. You could be liable for any damage done to the system.
There are EV charging stations at the Oasis Ranch and Inn a short drive away.
Comments about no EV charging at campground
Below is the comment from the original person who posted the photo along with the highlights of the nearly one hundred comments that followed.
The original person who posted is referred to as “Camper”. Others who commented are referred to as “Group member”.
Camper: “Came to Death Valley and booked Furnace Creek Campground thinking car can charge in the night! While we sleep! Sadly no! That’s not an option”
When I asked permission to use Camper’s photo in this article, he responded with, “Yeah, you can post this, people need to know! I booked an RV space to be able to charge! The space at the ranch is blocked in a ‘reserve state’ for some reason so nobody can charge. This is a crooked situation to be in!”
Group member: “Although it’s not convenient, they do have chargers in the parking lot near the ice cream parlor.”
Camper: “Those chargers are not working.”
Group member: “I was there for two days and nothing changed! The worst part is that management didn’t care!”
Group member: “If you’re from out west and if you don’t know that you might not be able to do this for several hundreds of miles I don’t know what to tell you. Electric cars are great in the city but when you climb mountains you start losing the charge. And no, most remote places don’t have the capacity to do this. Because they are remote places.”
Facebook members can click here to see the entire post including all the comments.
As I read through this Facebook post, several topics and past posts of RVtravel.com came to mind.
“The power pedestal folks are warning that charging EVs on traditional campground pedestals isn’t smart for the car or the campground. Both could be damaged if things aren’t done perfectly.” —RVtravel.com post from May 2021
I found it interesting that even EV charging stations are plagued with “No Shows” as “Camper” discovered when he went to charge his EV at a designated EV charging station. Charging stations were unoccupied but reserved by others.
Sound familiar?
A “no-show” solution?
Tim has a solution for all the no-shows that I think may just work. Tim says, “As to the complaints of reservations made and then they are ‘no shows,’ just do what your doctor’s office does, or what a hotel does if you made your appt/reservation and don’t show… You get charged for it anyway. Once people start getting charged full rate for not showing for their reservation, there will be a lot fewer ‘no shows.‘” Per this and many other RVtravel.com Campground Crowding posts.
Lack of EV charging stations
Then there is the final comment from a Group member concerning the lack of EV charging stations “out west” and the hundreds of miles between the ones that do exist. Many RVtravel.com articles come to mind including this one concerning EV tow vehicles.
Obviously “Camper”, who is a member of the Facebook Group Death Valley Hiking & Adventure, experienced more of an adventure than he had planned.
Makes me wonder how many RVers are ready for an “adventure” when they buy their first EV tow vehicle or an EV motorhome?
Thoughts? Please share in the comment box below.
Dave will be speaking at the 2024 Knoxville RV Show February 10th and 11th at the Knoxville Expo Center. Stop by and say “Hi” to Dave and his wife, Cheri, before or after one of their three daily seminars.
##RVT1133
EV owners need to really understand their machine’s needs and limits. Charging stations appear to be a major pain. Sign needs to be changed from “may” to “will”. There are always “entitled jerks” who will attempt to charge regardless of signage.
Eventually oil will be depleted. We need viable alternatives to gas & diesel powered vehicles. Until such time that battery powered vehicles provide the same range and refueling advantage found in my diesel truck, I would never consider an electric driven truck. A Google search shows the Cyber Truck has a 340 mile range & it takes 1 hr to recharge. I can only assume that range is cut in half when towing a 5 ton trailer. THEN there’s the problem of finding a charging station that is set up for tow vehicle and trailer. To recharge now requires parking the trailer (where??), finding the 250kw charging station, wait in queue to recharge, wait 1 hr to recharge, return to trailer hook up…
We have more than a hundred years of oil to pump out of the ground. At my age I have less than 20 years, my children won’t run out of oil, my grandchildren may get close to the end of oil, but by then they mat be driving nuclear powered cars. I’m probably wrong but I thought EV chargers ran off of 240V electricity that was converted to DC. If so the 50A service in the campground won’t work anyway as that is 110V service.
Actually a campground 50 amp is 240v it’s just utilized by campers as two 120v circuits and not combined in the rv’s power box.
They don’t want you charging but the” won’t work or damage your vehicle” line is bs. I charged my chevy volt on my homes rv pad hookup all the time. I know a guy that has a Tesla in a trailer and has a discrete cord 240v from the rv into the trailer. No issues for 2 years he’s had it ( or so he says )
Nailed it on the BS part. That’s just an excuse. The campground certainly can prohibit EV charging if each site is not metered because the site fee is predicated on the intermittent usage of an RV, not the 100% duty cycle of an EV.
This reminds me of the whole “No Autoformers!” issue. I keep mine hidden inside the electrical bay because I understand electrical.
I thought the same thing regarding RV pedestals and EV charging. We were at Zion NP this summer and a Tesla was charging on the RV pedestal. We asked them about it and Tesla sells a simple inexpensive adapter that allows you to charge your EV on an RV pedestal 50A plug. The CG may not allow it but it is possible.
Stay safe,
Joe
All part of a long-term goal to force us “peasants” to stay close to home. We’d be easier to control, that way…
I don’t show up expecting to be able to pump diesel fuel from the pedestal, and the entitled EVers should not expect the park to “fuel” their rig. You chose your vehicle, your problem.
When all of the electric grids collapse in this country due to not updating the infrastructure to handle the increase for EV charging, then we have no lights, no heat, no AC, no refrigeration, no food, no transportation, etc. maybe someones “light bulb” will go off in their brain finally about the consequences of their stupidity.
The reason you’ll never see this is because we send lawyers to represent us, they don’t operate on common sense but legalese. That’s also why you need a lawyer to interpret a law. Instead of a law just saying Don’t do that or you’ll go to jail, instead you get a page with 5 paragraphs that you couldn’t tell what it says to save your life.
Sounds more like entitlement Attitude. Just because you have an electric vehicle does not mean every park you go to has to provide a charging station. I agree if someone makes an appointment and don’t show they should be charged and who ever is there should be allowed to charge. I don’t know but i think it is probably very expensive to install charging stations and not everyone is going to be able to have them where electric vehicle drivers want them.
If you have a EV, don’t expect to get free charging at a campground. It’s bad enough our government gives billions of dollars to billion dollar companies to install charging stations. Buy a hybrid vehicle, you’ll get better milage and not have to worry about paying the high cost of electricity. Wait till the electric companies start charging for upgrading the electric grid.
Here is an interesting article about EV charging at a campground by Mike Sokol.
Make your own judgement if good or bad.
https://www.rvtravel.com/rv-electricity-campground-ev-charging-rvt-1041/
Thanks for that link Bull. Great article by Mike Sokol. Eye opening read.
This is one reason (among many) why I absolutely will not own an EV (other than MAYBE an e-bike). There just isn’t enough infrastructure to support them in the places I want to go. Nor will I live in any state that has an “EV only by 20XX) mandate.
Thank you, Dave! Wow! That was a most unpleasant sort of surprise. Two friends have an EV (do not camp), but I have no understanding of this stuff; EVs and charging stations. Economists would refer to this as a “first/early mover problem.” Technological advances have to be supported by infrastructure and the support for EVs is still spotty and incomplete. It seems that “camper” failed to contact the campground and confirm that the 50-amp service supported EV charging. Had he/she done so, then their problem would have never arisen. The draws of a charging EV and an RV must be very different, implying upgrades to provide the former and probably an additional charge to recoup the costs.
After reading articles like this one I have to wonder how well the early-adopter thought their purchase through. Not well enough apparently. There is something of value here, the lesson. Prepare ahead. When he reserved that campsite, either over the phone or in person, he had the opportunity to inquire.
I don’t think there is anything wrong with campgrounds not allowing EV charging. To do so would just add to the costs of all campsites, and I’m not an avid EV fan. Now, for the CG to have separate sites with either EV chargers or 50A pedestals that have an EV charging surcharge, great.
That is so true. We have a 5th wheel and a Park Model in an “Annual Lease” Campground in NC. A new Camper plugged his EV into the pedestal and blew out some of the circuitry in the Campground. The owner was not happy with him and made him pay for the damages he caused. I am not sure why anyone that owns an EV would even think that it would be okay to do so. SMH
There is NO WAY that could happen if the campground maintained their electrical system. The pedestal breaker should have tripped. Or maybe the campground did not have each pedestal on its own breaker as they are supposed to. No, I do not have an EV nor do I ever anticipate owning one.
No way?? Tell me you’ve never worked with electricity without telling me you’ve never worked with electricity.
Because of these kinds of people, there will soon be meters on all RV park power plugs.
The locust swarm that descended on RVing since 2020 will leave their trail of devastation
and then they will move on to ruin something else. figure out what that is and get rich! That’s what the RV industry did for a couple years. And now they are reaping what they sowed.
Are there rules on how many kilowatts you can use?
Reason 18 why I won’t be going electric any time soon.
If anyone believes this tech is not still in the very early adoption phase they’re fooling themselves. It will be another few decades before EV is as ubiquitous and reliable as gas fueled cars which means you’re taking huge risks outside very few situations.
Campers certainly are paying for electricity; that’s part of the nightly fee. 50a is no joke. The question is “why might this be an issue?” The most likely answer is probably the sustained high current draw. A simple solution is to reduce the draw by using a 120 adapter. Yes, it will charge slowly, but it will also do so at a more manageable rate and it beats being stranded.
IMO, until the EV recharging infrastructure mimics the fossil fuel one, there is little chance of this nation transitioning to electric fuel. We are too used to 5 minute refueling times and the ability to do so easily every 200 miles. I’m not holding my breathe until THAT happens!
Well, well, well. Thanks for the great piece Dave. Truly puts some light on the reality of having to live in reality.
The reservation system for EV charging stations seems to be run by the same crew that runs most state parks campgrounds; Empty chargers booked up but empty and are preventing anyone else from using them.
Perhaps the policy is a result of the power going out at the Furnace Creek RV park due to an EV being charged incorrectly and thus putting hundreds of souls at risk on a 115 degree day in death valley. A Risk Management evaluation would pull the plug on the EV charging in a site.
I’m old enough to never have to worry about running out of dependable fossil fuel. And neither should most readers here. There is currently nothing to replace it either. Not wind. Not solar. Not even geothermal (which is a great source but unfortunately relatively scarce). Nope, no battery-powered vehicles in my lifetime.
Great article to raise awareness. Unfortunately the same people commenting here are just anti EV and probably only clicked through to comment negatively. Great piece. Sad people just click through EV articles to share their negative opinions.
Living in reality does not make someone anti anything Dave. The article provided confirmation of the realities that many very very smart people already knew.
Inconvenient facts are still facts. A commenter below linked a previous article by Mike Sokol, from 2022 that is a very good read.
RVers don’t help themselves to propane or diesel from the maintenance yard, why would the virtue signaling crowd think fueling an EV car would be different?
I couldn’t have said it any better than you did Cancel, thanks.
Hmm. Anti EV? Yep, thats me. I will not elaborate the reasons for fear of it being labeled political speech.
Seems like that’s why you’re here so I’m not sure why you’re complaining…
Can anyone point to technical details of how the pedestal or vehicle could be damaged? If the sockets are wired to code, it should handle 50amps. A portable plug in EVSE (“charger”) is designed precisely for this. Either the pedestal is non compliant, someone is confused or there are details which need to be explained.
I think it’s outrageous that someone wants to take up a space that’s dedicated to RV use, to charge his EV.
If a person pays for the space and abides by park rules what does it matter the vehicle they park?
Dana, that’s an interesting perspective. If I use one of a few charging stations available to recharge my lithiums instead of my generator or an RV park, does it matter to the person denied the intended usage? It might require me to park overnight……
Because the space was never intended to be used that way.
Obviously. But don’t worry, the rules are changing. As this article clearly highlights.
Any properly functioning 50 amp circuit can handle an EV charger at appropriate rating (40 amps or less). Powering an EV charger makes NO difference other than a sustained draw which a properly functioning circuit will handle.
Exactly. If it’s unsafe for the EV, it’s unsafe to plug your RV into it.
Except that you are using both the EV charger and your RV electrical systems at the same time so the load could be quite large.
Two summers ago, we were camping at an Arizona State Park. A Tesla with a small camper trailer backed into a 50 amp site. And I’m sitting thinking “I’m wondering if”. Wonder no longer. Yep, got set up and adapted the Tesla into the park 50 amp. During several walks thru the park I had several conversations with him. He was from Phoenix and about 150 miles from the park. I immediately thought “pretty darn nice, go camping on the weekend and get your “fuel” on the park’s dime”. We were there for a week and during that time the ranger and I had great conversations.
Did the Tesla owner pay for a space with 50 amp service?
Yes he obviously did. And because of people like him, soon everyone will be paying more for these sites. Sorry you missed the point. I thought it was pretty obvious.
Continuation of previous post. During one of the talks, I asked him if the parks had talked about the charging situation. “You bet” he said. He didn’t know what was going to happen, if anything but he was on the same wave length as us. Now, if paying by the KWH, no problem.
Hmmmm, I may have to rethink getting in line to purchase the new Tesla camper “truck”…🤣
I sorely miss Mike Sokol’s logical and well-informed articles regarding all things EV.
Me too. What happened to Mike?
I don’t see the difference between an EV drawing 40 amps and a large camper with three air conditioners drawing 40 amps, except that the air conditioners produce current spikes every time a compressor kicks on. If the problem is the overall capacity of the system—that it can’t support all sites drawing 40 amps simultaneously—then calculate the capacity of the system and tell EVs that they are limited to a current that the system can handle—say, 25 amps instead of 40 (the max for a 50 amp circuit). I can’t speak for all EVs, but mine easily sets charging current less than the maximum. At home I use the current I need to be charged when I depart in the morning, not the maximum possible.
Well stated Mike. The only difference I see is AC units aren’t running 12 months per year whereas EVs need charging 12 months per year. RV parks likely factor rates for sites seasonally which could factor into the individual policies of the same.
Cheers Mike.
How about 2 amps?? Would that do you?? Because I’m left wondering if you’ve ever visited a campground. As many as 50 sites all drawing a continuous 25 amps?? You seriously think campgrounds are set up for that??
Snark is interpreted differently by different people.
If their electrical system can’t handle it, it sounds to me like code violations. They should be reported and the entire camp grounds should be shut down as dangerous. If it could permanently damage it, it means that their wiring isn’t up to code. A 50A breaker and proper gauge wire would keep things from getting overloaded with a 40A charge, and the worst case scenario would be a tripped breaker.
If it could permanently damage your car, then it would do far worse to an RV with an air conditioner compressor that kicks in. An EV will start off at a couple of amps and work its way up while constantly testing things. How could their system be so bad that it could destroy a car?
I suspect they discourage it for liability reasons. An EV that mischarges and kills battery cells (or worse, causes the car to catch fire) would end up costing the campground a lot of money, no matter who is ultimately at fault.
Also, a question: aren’t EV chargers treated separately under the NEC? A bog standard 50A plug stand is likely not code compliant for EV charging because it probably doesn’t have to be.
It sounds to me like you know absolutely nothing about the transmission of electricity but have somehow managed to form an opinion about it anyway…
Hmm. My mom used to say “don’t be mean.”
Something to keep in mind. Systems that were built to code are grandfathered in forever. If it met code in 1975 it can still remain in use today with very few limitations. Early RVs used very little electricity and some parks simply do not have the power for A/C. Even slide outs are somewhat new (last 25 years or so). The entire industry had seen a complete revision during the last couple of decades. Long term occupants used to be somewhat uncommon and even today are even looked down on by some. Without them very very few parks could operate today (more common in the south) without these renters. If a park does not earn a profit-it closes.
EV’s are not the mythical panacea the media is claiming they are; just VERY clever marketing. We will completely lose the right to repair our own vehicles through all of this under the guise of proprietary technology. As an automotive expert with 30+ years in the industry I can tell you that the components that make current vehicles less reliable are all the electrical components we keep adding to vehicles. Further, we are already having weekly black/brown outs all across Texas when the weather gets hot (or cold). How exactly are all of these high-amperage electric vehicles going to charge on the grid when its already barely meeting capacity? Hint: we’re not.
I will have to assume you are unfamiliar with the US power grid and how it works. For some reason Texas chose to be on it’s own interconnection.
https://www.reddit.com/r/texas/comments/sjksll/one_of_the_top_reasons_why_the_texas_power_grid/
I have a metered spot, so no ethical issues in charging my EV. I just make sure the total pull from my trailer and EV stays under 50 amps. If my trailer is plugged into the 30 amp, I plug my EV into the 50 amp but only have the charger drawing 10-15amps. The central breaker for my pedestal would pop if I tried to max out both the 30 and the 50 (and would do some damage I would imagine).
Please understand that your 50A outlet is 50A on each power leg givin your 100 A capacity that is 12K watts depending on the load balance. If you use the 208/240 outet (your 50A) then you should be ok EXCEPT most older parks do not have the ampicity to charge much of anything. I have been in parks where you could not run your A/C due to power limitations.
I see many saying why not charge my EV if it only uses the same amperage as your RV. Well lets say you own a campground. You calculate the average energy usage to account for the typical AC unit, and other (RV) related energy using appliances. Then you come up with a daily rate to charge. Now you get people using it for their RV and EV. the cost can double. That’s wrong.
People, for some reason, believe it’s their right to use any electrical outlet to charge their car. THEY DON’T.